S07.E23: Ready Or Not

[GreatKazu]

4 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

So.....can Vee please host the reunions and aftershows?

Winner winner chicken dinner!

4 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

For real? Several people posted here that the child support comes out of Jenelle's paycheck. And on last week's episode, Jenelle stated that she thinks that's the reason Babs doesn't wanna give up Jace. 

Jenelle mentioned that because Jace gets money for his appearance on the show. Since Barb is the guardian of Jace, she gets his paycheck. That is why many feel Jenelle is only seeking custody so she can then have his paycheck. A court order is required in order to garnish someone's earnings. The court dropped the request for child support three years ago when Barb agreed Jenelle didn't have to pay. The link to that article has been posted many times here.

Edited March 8, 2017 by GreatKazu

[JBC344]

44 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

An article was written a few years ago. If you google it, I'm sure you'd find it. Jenelle was paying a measly $130 a month in support. Barbara agreed to let her off the hook and not get any child support for Jace from her.

This is true.  Another poster mentioned this a couple of episodes ago when Jenelle was meeting with her lawyer and kept saying that Barb wants Jace for the money.  It was uncovered that there is no formal child support order in place for Jace but that Jenelle and Barb have a private on, so that was what Jenelle was talking about regarding money a few episodes ago.  My theory is that she is also refusing to film with Barb so she gets less camera time and it will affect Barb's "personal money" she herself gets paid to be on the show. 

At least this is how I understand it.  I could be wrong.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I think that Jenelle knows damn well that Barb is one of the break-out "stars" of the TM franchise, that she's a fan favorite, and that (aside from the idiots on social media who praise Jenelle for "changing" and being a "good mom") most TM2 viewers like Barb a lot better than Jenelle. She knows many people would rather watch Barb segments rather than Jenelle segments. She knows many viewers like us love us some Barb (even with her imperfections) and despise Jenelle. Jenelle is jealous because she knows Barb has more personality, charisma, and humor that make her a far better reality TV star than she will ever be. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[dabronx]

I'm torn on Jo. If he was always giving in to Kail because she was a bully I feel like we'd still catch more of him agreeing with Vee when Kail wasn't there. or at least not contradicting her as much. I think the cameras would catch it eventually even if he was trying not to get caught out disagreeing. Part of me thinks there is a good chance he's still "hitting that" (that's what the kids today are still saying right???) In this particular case he seemed annoyed himself at Isaac's reaction to Javi's house shennanigans- but I feel like his past experience with Kail should have taught him to be far far far more skeptical of her story than he seemed. It's a tough call. I'm thinking in this case he was pissed at Javi not respecting the talk they had. But I also think overall based on how he responds to Vee it's 50/50 he's riding that train.

[Mkay]

3 hours ago, shelley1234 said:

She said she didn't have a conversation with him about it.....like she did with Jo.  That doesn't mean he didn't know and didn't tell the interwebs about it.  I'm sure the last live episode is On Demand if people missed it and/or wanna watch it again.  

Yes but that screen shot didn't show who those messages were  coming from or anything. It's someone else saying Javi dm'd star glam? If it was a screen shot of the DM sitting in starglam's messages with Javi's info on it, then I'd believe it. The messages aren't clear who this convo is with. This is coming from Jenelle who has constantly been lying this season. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Mkay

[Mkay]

1 hour ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Mr. Guilfoyle@pp doesn't think Javi is a psycho for going into the house after Kailyn ditched him at Chipotle. I disagree. I do think it was wrong ethically, although not legally, for him to enter a house where his estranged wife is living with children. However, MG said "What if there was something wrong? He'd be the hero." I noticed how Kailyn left out the BS about ditching him at Chipotle in the retelling at Jo's house.

We don't plan to divorce (who does?) but having this knowledge encourages me to aim for an amicable split should it occur. 

It could be that Kailyn set up a scenario that she knew would infuriate Javi, and since he'd already entered the house once before, she was trying to get him to do it again so she could act the victim, call the police and run to Jo for support in distancing Javi from Isaac. I'm not a ruthless bitch, but I am aware of the Sun Tsu assertion "If your opponent is of choleric temper, irritate him." Javi makes it easy.

Also, Mr. Guilfoyle should be wary of my potential ruthlessness should we split. I'm a big fan of giving people enough rope to hang themselves. 

He also had an interesting theory about why Jo was entertaining Kail's rants. He thinks Jo would be open to banging Kail again. Not as a relationship, but per the man in my house, Kailyn has a new booty, she's no longer his problem, she's into revenge sex, and she's pregnant so she can't get pregnant again. So, per Mr. Guilfoyle, Jo sees Kailyn as available booty and the same thing happened with Jordan. Also, Kailyn has zero morals when it comes to banging anyone, but especially exes.  Her stank is already on him.

Vee may or may not know this, but he thinks she does. 

#DeepThoughts

I'm in Oregon! I'm down. I can drive a stick, too!

I'll be in WA in a few days!! Or I'll stay home and you can stop in Texas. 

[ReadMeLattice]

35 minutes ago, dabronx said:

I'm torn on Jo. If he was always giving in to Kail because she was a bully I feel like we'd still catch more of him agreeing with Vee when Kail wasn't there. or at least not contradicting her as much. I think the cameras would catch it eventually even if he was trying not to get caught out disagreeing. Part of me thinks there is a good chance he's still "hitting that" (that's what the kids today are still saying right???) In this particular case he seemed annoyed himself at Isaac's reaction to Javi's house shennanigans- but I feel like his past experience with Kail should have taught him to be far far far more skeptical of her story than he seemed. It's a tough call. I'm thinking in this case he was pissed at Javi not respecting the talk they had. But I also think overall based on how he responds to Vee it's 50/50 he's riding that train.

Honestly I continue to see some connection and flirtation between Jo and Kail. I don't know if that's translated to anything but every time they interact I see a something. It's odd. 

[GreatKazu]

The only thing I see from Jo is the face he seems to make when he is around Kail. She must smell.

[lilmarysunshine]

Who on earth would choose that horrible beast over Vee? I think Vee is just gorgeous. She loves Isaac and doesn't seem to be a user. 

[SheTalksShit]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

Winner winner chicken dinner!

Jenelle mentioned that because Jace gets money for his appearance on the show. Since Barb is the guardian of Jace, she gets his paycheck. That is why many feel Jenelle is only seeking custody so she can then have his paycheck. A court order is required in order to garnish someone's earnings. The court dropped the request for child support three years ago when Barb agreed Jenelle didn't have to pay. The link to that article has been posted many times here.

Babs wouldn't be able to collect his paycheck as her own, though. His paycheck would go into a trust or some sort of fund that he can't touch until he's 18. 

[GreatKazu]

5 minutes ago, SheTalksShit said:

Babs wouldn't be able to collect his paycheck as her own, though. His paycheck would go into a trust or some sort of fund that he can't touch until he's 18. 

Amber Portwood gave an interview and confirmed a trust is an option they can establish. It is not required for MTV to establish nor are the parents of the kids required to establish one. Another article also verified this information. They are not employees of MTV, simply independent contractors. They are not required to set up a trust as if they are SAG members.

I didn't imply Barb would cash his check. I am simply pointing out as his guardian she would be the one to receive his money as opposed to Jenelle.

Edited March 8, 2017 by GreatKazu

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

It is not an adoption. It is a guardianship.

I think Barb is scared shitless when she drops off Jace at Jenelle's. I know I am and I am not even a part of their existence. I worry more knowing cameras are not around.

Barb can be blamed for some things, but she is certainly not in the same category as her daughter, Kail, Amber or Leah who would dump their children off for weeks at a time just so they can be rid of them as they go on their merry way with guys and vacations. When has Barb had a vacation without Jace? When has Barb dumped Jace off with Jenelle with no cares in the world only to return a week later? Barb is the one who actually has a job and there is certainly nothing wrong with a decent parent to have time to themselves without the guilt of feeling they are not within their right to do so.

I believe that there is no formal visitation order, either. Barb has let Jenelle see Jace all these years and she didn't have to. If there was a formal visitation order, we know that Jenelle would have called the cops when Barb has refused to let her see Jace when she's called her screaming that she wanted to see him. Since Barb is in no way obligated to let Jenelle see Jace, I sure hope she finally realizes how harmful it is to both of them and stops any visits. How many times have we seen Barb cry after Jenelle has called her filthy names and treated her like shit? Many. How many times have we seen Jenelle cry because she misses Jace and wants to see him? Never. The only thing she's ever cried about is when her soulmate of the month dumps her. A poster upthread said the idea of getting custody of Jace is nothing more than a sick game for Jenelle. I wholeheartedly agree. It has nothing to do with Jace, it's all about hurting Barb.

Jenelle saying Barb only wants Jace for the money means that Barb gets paid to be on this show just like Jenelle does. Jenelle can't comprehend that Barb loves Jace with all her heart and wants what's best for him. Jenelle isn't capable of putting someone else's well being ahead of her selfish wants. The burning desire to hurt her mother is what drives her.

Edited March 8, 2017 by lovesnark

[GreatKazu]

4 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

I believe that there is no formal visitation order, either. Barb has let Jenelle see Jace all these years and she didn't have to. If there was a formal visitation order, we know that Jenelle would have called the cops when Barb has refused to let her see Jace when she's called her screaming that she wanted to see him. Since Barb is in no way obligated to let Jenelle see Jace, I sure hope she finally realizes how harmful it is to both of them and stops any visits. How many times have we seen Barb cry after Jenelle has called her filthy names and treated her like shit? Many. How many times have we seen Jenelle cry because she misses Jace and wants to see him? Never. The only thing she's ever cried about is when her soulmate of the month dumps her. A poster upthread said the idea of getting custody of Jace is nothing more than a sick game for Jenelle. I wholeheartedly agree. It has nothing to do with Jace, it's all about hurting Barb.

Jenelle saying Barb only wants Jace for the money means that Barb gets paid to be on this show just like Jenelle does. Jenelle can't comprehend that Barb loves Jace with all her heart and wants what's best for him. Jenelle isn't capable of putting someone else's well being ahead of her selfish wants.

Agree. Usually when someone has a guardianship, they can determine visitation at will with no formal agreement to adhere to. I know someone who recently acquired guardianship and they were told it is up them whether they will allow the children to visit their father and other relatives. They hold all the cards.

Jenelle definitely uses her children to hurt Barb. There was an article posted here after Jenelle had her baby. It mentioned how she or UBT kicked Barb out of the delivery room. When Jenelle hasn't even given birth yet to the child she will use as a pawn, that is about as low as she can get.

[smores]

I was under the impression that Javi and Kail had agreed to not discuss the cheating on camera, at least, that's my take away from the conversations she had when she was trying to shut down his comments and saying he was throwing in "slick comments"  It seemed like she was trying to warn him that he this wasn't what they'd agreed to, and that's why she was walking away from the conversation.  Javi then refused to let her leave and threw everything out in the open.  Cheating on him is totally wrong and I'm not excusing that at all.  But, I also think Javi is being kind of an asshole throwing shit out there like that and then breaking into the house.  He can feel however he wants to about Kail, but that was also his kids' house he broke into and tossed.  That's NOT normal behavior, and even if Kail exaggerated the circumstances, what he admitted to was wrong.  They share a child, and he considers Isaac to be his child, you do not do something that will make them feel uncomfortable.

As for Jo and Vee, they are in an awkward position.  This isn't really their fight, but they kind of are stuck picking up the pieces. Honestly, the only right answer, I think, is "Of course we'll come get Isaac any time you need, and we can take Lincoln too, if you need us too"  They share a child, and the safety and well being of the kids has to be the most important thing.  I am not a fan of Vee speaking out.  I can see where she's frustrated with Kail and I can get why she would want to, but Isaac is 8 and they are on tv.  This shit goes on the internet and it is out there forever.  This is obviously a traumatic time for a really sensitive child, and it's not a private situation like it would be for the rest of us.  The last thing Isaac needs is to discover later on what Vee has said about his mother.  Right or wrong, Kail IS his mother, and those frustrated conversations should be had off camera, to a trusted friend or family member.

Which brings me to Barb.  She and Jenelle are like oil and water, and Barb is just as responsible for their dynamic.  Not all the time, but often she pushes even when Jenelle is making it clear she's not in the mood for a situation to continue.  It may not be right that Barb has to stop and cater to Jenelle, but Jace is present, and for Jace's sake, sometimes, she needs to let something drop and just deal with it later.  That poor kid is clearly displaying signs of distress.

[AmyFarrahFowler]

3 hours ago, lovesnark said:

Sweet! Me, too. I'm in WA. You're in CA, right? We'll head east and pick up anyone who wants to join us along the way. We should probably rent a Suburban.

Swing by Seattle! I'll be waiting on the curb with Rice Crispy Treats :D

[GreatKazu]

3 minutes ago, AmyFarrahFowler said:

Swing by Seattle! I'll be waiting on the curb with Rice Crispy Treats :D

I will get a ticket for speeding to your house! 

Quote

The last thing Isaac needs is to discover later on what Vee has said about his mother.  Right or wrong, Kail IS his mother, and those frustrated conversations should be had off camera, to a trusted friend or family member.

You may be right. Too bad Kail showed herself when she allowed the show to capture her temporarily cuttting out Isaac's father out of his life and the million other things she pulled on camera that would be detrimental to Isaac and is available on the internet forever. Some of the shit Isaac will see includes Javi and her treating Jo and Vee like shit, pointing out Jo's sweatpants as if to shame him and instigating fights with Isaac's dad on camera. Those things are not only out there for Isaac to watch all over again, those are moments embedded in his memory. 

Vee pointing out the truth in a manner that I found was not at all offensive,  reminds Kail of her selfish behavior and puts her on notice. No one else needs to be dragged into that mess. Bad enough Kail drags Sterling into everything that happens. Vee and Jo do not need to be discussing their issues about Kail with anyone else but Kail and possibly a therapist.

Kail should think twice about HER behavior and how it will affect her sons and  not be concerned about others pointing out HER behavior especially when she mistreats others. 

[lilmarysunshine]

13 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I will get a ticket for speeding to your house! 

You may be right. Too bad Kail showed herself when she allowed the show to capture her temporarily cuttting out Isaac's father out of his life and the million other things she pulled on camera that would be detrimental to Isaac and is available on the internet forever. Some of the shit Isaac will see includes Javi and her treating Jo and Vee like shit, pointing out Jo's sweatpants as if to shame him and instigating fights with Isaac's dad on camera. Those things are not only out there for Isaac to watch all over again, those are moments embedded in his memory. 

Vee pointing out the truth in a manner that I found was not at all offensive,  reminds Kail of her selfish behavior and puts her on notice. No one else needs to be dragged into that mess. Bad enough Kail drags Sterling into everything that happens. Vee and Jo do not need to be discussing their issues about Kail with anyone else but Kail and possibly a therapist.

Kail should think twice about HER behavior and how it will affect her sons and  not be concerned about others pointing out HER behavior especially when she mistreats others. 

I totally agree with this. Something also tells me that Isaac will soon enough be well-acquainted with how his mother operates. Kids aren't dumb. In fact, I'm guessing he's already pretty tuned into it to some degree.  I am familiar with a young woman whose grandmother is believed to have narcissistic tendencies (which I think Kail totally has, btw).  This girl learned early on to treat her grandmother with kid gloves and though she loves her, there's not a lot of trust there because you can't be totally honest with a narcissist. It's really kind of sad. I'm thinking it is actually possible that if Isaac finds that stuff Vee said when he is 13 his reaction might just be "So it's not just me?"  

I think she is truly a toxic person. I think she does love her boys but in a way a narcissist does. Notice how she always makes a point to talk about what a good mother she is? Yep. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by lilmarysunshine

[smores]

That's all the more reason to me that Vee should keep things quiet.  I'm not saying Kail is a stellar parent and hasn't made mistakes.  What I'm saying is that this kid needs stability and he is clearly a sensitive kid.  Things bug him, that much is clear from what we've seen on tv.  Somebody needs to act like an adult and be there for him, and generally speaking, Jo and Vee have been the adults (I say that because, well, Jo has a bit of a rocky past).  That means that if he googles things later on, it can hurt him all the more to see that Vee, the person who was there for him, was putting his business on blast.  

There's a world of difference between someone privately answering questions for him about past situations as he gets older and all of that info being out there for him to find if he just googles a parent's name.  I just think taking the high road is the better way to go when it comes to the kids, even if it's harder.  It's the adult's job to protect them, and this is one of the ways that you do it.

[CofCinci]

It looked like Vee was doing homework. Is she a college student?

[poopchute]

8 hours ago, shelley1234 said:

It was on the TM  Live show.  Kail said Jenelle announced it with a congrats tweet.  Jenelle tweeted during the show that Javi did and gave her screen shots.  Kail then tweeted that she didn't know that and apologized for blaming Jenelle for sharing her business.  So...yep...that's how that played out live on tv.  

Oh yes I saw that.  Kail is a lunatic and she said that Javi announced it but she's a liar.  I don't see Javi actually announcing it anywhere.  Can anyone link me to the place where Javi announced it?

[lilmarysunshine]

4 hours ago, smores said:

That's all the more reason to me that Vee should keep things quiet.  I'm not saying Kail is a stellar parent and hasn't made mistakes.  What I'm saying is that this kid needs stability and he is clearly a sensitive kid.  Things bug him, that much is clear from what we've seen on tv.  Somebody needs to act like an adult and be there for him, and generally speaking, Jo and Vee have been the adults (I say that because, well, Jo has a bit of a rocky past).  That means that if he googles things later on, it can hurt him all the more to see that Vee, the person who was there for him, was putting his business on blast.  

There's a world of difference between someone privately answering questions for him about past situations as he gets older and all of that info being out there for him to find if he just googles a parent's name.  I just think taking the high road is the better way to go when it comes to the kids, even if it's harder.  It's the adult's job to protect them, and this is one of the ways that you do it.

In my opinion, reason #63 not to do a reality show. No amount of money would be enough for me to sell my child's privacy.  None of them care about protecting that aspect - that the world knows their family business - of their lives. Even the best ones in this franchise have decided money means more than a private life for their kids. I think more than try to manage what everyone says on camera, an easier and better solution would be to just get a job like the rest of us. Poor Jace, especially. He will have access 24/7 of all of the shitty times his mom and grandmother fought and how they both tried to manipulate him. (And Barbara does that, too. "Do you think your mom gets boyfriends too quickly, Jace?")

Edited March 8, 2017 by lilmarysunshine

[ClassyCourtHeels]

4 hours ago, CofCinci said:

It looked like Vee was doing homework. Is she a college student?

Supposedly studying interior design. Apparently Jo is in college too. They just don't seem to make a big production about it like Kail does with her college on the show.

[CofCinci]

17 minutes ago, ClassyCourtHeels said:

Supposedly studying interior design. Apparently Jo is in college too. They just don't seem to make a big production about it like Kail does with her college on the show.

Thank you for the update. 

Good for them.  I have no idea of the earning potential for interior designers in the civilian world, but federal/DoD (GS-1008) interior designers make around $80k.  They live around the military community and if they plan to stay, they should pursue degrees that would gain them federal/DoD employment. 

[CerealKiller813]

Does anyone live in WV? can Leah be forced to put the child in her gear? What is the child services situation like in that area? Sadly, some states have lenient laws when it comes to children's rights and things pertaining to child abuse/neglect. This is a DEGENERATIVE disease. Broccoli and a prayer isn't going to fix this. Ali should not be in the park without her safety pads. ??? Put the helmet on!!!! 

[CofCinci]

15 minutes ago, CerealKiller813 said:

Does anyone live in WV? can Leah be forced to put the child in her gear? What is the child services situation like in that area? Sadly, some states have lenient laws when it comes to children's rights and things pertaining to child abuse/neglect. This is a DEGENERATIVE disease. Broccoli and a prayer isn't going to fix this. Ali should not be in the park without her safety pads. ??? Put the helmet on!!!! 

Medical non-compliance/neglect is difficult to prove.  I can't imagine WV social workers have the resources to investigate when there are 5-year-olds who know how to make 1-pot meth for their mommy when she's "sick". If an investigation opened, Ali's parents bring her to her appointments. She is not neglected medically. Ultimately, Leah and Corey have the full authority to make medical decisions for Ali. If they don't want her in her wheelchair, it is their right. It's stupid but they decide on her treatment plan. Most courts side with the parents.  There are high-profile cases where parents didn't want conventional treatment for leukemia and HIV and won. 

Leah and Corey are dummies and making decisions that I wouldn't -- but I support their legal ability to be the ultimate authority for medical decision making. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by CofCinci

[alexa]

Quote

I want everyone to rewatch Janelle's portions of the episode and watch Jace and his non-verbal behavior. Look at how he brightens up when Janelle says Barb was calling. Look at how he shut down once Janelle starting cursing and yelling at Barb. Watch his affections towards Barb (without being coerced to). Look at his FULL smile when around Barb.

I think many people did notice and did comment on this right away.  I know you are agreeing with what others said, but just wanted to make clear that has been the resounding message in the forums by many posting here.  But yes, I totally agree with you too.

I finally saw the episode last night, and honestly I don't know if I can keep watching...both for Janelle/Jace issue, because it is heartbreaking what she does to him, but also because watching it at MTV.com and their annoying repeated commercials, especially the first one where the guy puts a scarf on his head drive me crazy (we dropped cable and our streaming alternatives do not have mtv).   The commercials are repeated over and over throughout the episode.

[ReadMeLattice]

2 hours ago, ClassyCourtHeels said:

Supposedly studying interior design. Apparently Jo is in college too. They just don't seem to make a big production about it like Kail does with her college on the show.

I thought Jo used to go to college but dropped out. Do you know where he goes? That's great if he really is. 

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Medical non-compliance/neglect is difficult to prove.  I can't imagine WV social workers have the resources to investigate when there are 5-year-olds who know how to make 1-pot meth for their mommy when she's "sick". If an investigation opened, Ali's parents bring her to her appointments. She is not neglected medically. Ultimately, Leah and Corey have the full authority to make medical decisions for Ali. If they don't want her in her wheelchair, it is their right. It's stupid but they decide on her treatment plan. Most courts side with the parents.  There are high-profile cases where parents didn't want conventional treatment for leukemia and HIV and won. 

Leah and Corey are dummies and making decisions that I wouldn't -- but I support their legal ability to be the ultimate authority for medical decision making. 

Disabled kids' care gets neglected all the time. And other kids' too. Unfortunately as bad as everything we've seen on the show is, I don't think child services could get involved for almost any of it. 

[Ladystardust]

2 hours ago, CerealKiller813 said:

Does anyone live in WV? can Leah be forced to put the child in her gear? What is the child services situation like in that area? Sadly, some states have lenient laws when it comes to children's rights and things pertaining to child abuse/neglect. This is a DEGENERATIVE disease. Broccoli and a prayer isn't going to fix this. Ali should not be in the park without her safety pads. ??? Put the helmet on!!!! 

I grew up in WV and my mom works in the court system there. They have a TON of child abuse & neglect cases and they're mostly drug related or involve sexual abuse. There is a huge drug problem in WV. The courts are just swamped with that. Unfortunately, Leah wouldn't even come close to being a top priority regarding abuse or neglect there. I come from a much smaller county than Leah and you wouldn't believe the child abuse cases my mom has to hear. I imagine the legal system is even more clogged with child abuse cases in a large county like Leah's. 

[GreatKazu]

4 hours ago, lilmarysunshine said:

In my opinion, reason #63 not to do a reality show. No amount of money would be enough for me to sell my child's privacy.  None of them care about protecting that aspect - that the world knows their family business - of their lives. Even the best ones in this franchise have decided money means more than a private life for their kids. I think more than try to manage what everyone says on camera, an easier and better solution would be to just get a job like the rest of us. Poor Jace, especially. He will have access 24/7 of all of the shitty times his mom and grandmother fought and how they both tried to manipulate him. (And Barbara does that, too. "Do you think your mom gets boyfriends too quickly, Jace?")

Exactly.

I think what Vee said to Kail's face about how she treated Jo and herself is hardly anything to be concerned with and surely it doesn't even make the top 1000 list of things that have occurred on camera and off camera that may affect Isaac. When Kail and Javi tag teamed against Jo and Vee, Isaac was right there in the middle hearing all of this and being groomed to treat Javi as his dad while having very little time with his own bio dad. Perhaps hearing Vee speak up and express her feelings on how she and Jo felt can be looked at as a learning experience for Isaac. He can watch how one can express their feelings without cussing, yelling, making threats, using a calm voice, speaking in an inoffensive manner and NOT using Isaac as a pawn when making their point.

[BitterApple]

Yeah, Vee is definitely the least offensive member of this whole shitshow. I understand why people say the spouses should stay out of it and let the bio parents hash things out, but Kail's pretty much made her drama Vee's business by storming into the woman's home and going on a rant, and expecting Vee's family schedule to revolve around her whims. It's not like Kail calls Jo and says "hey, I need to meet up with you privately so we can discuss some things." She airs out all her dirty laundry in front of Vee, she can't expect Vee to sit there and not have an opinion. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by BitterApple

[CerealKiller813]

3 hours ago, CerealKiller813 said:

Does anyone live in WV? can Leah be forced to put the child in her gear? What is the child services situation like in that area? Sadly, some states have lenient laws when it comes to children's rights and things pertaining to child abuse/neglect. This is a DEGENERATIVE disease. Broccoli and a prayer isn't going to fix this. Ali should not be in the park without her safety pads. ??? Put the helmet on!!!! 

I know this was a stretch to think further action could be realistically taken in this situation. Trust me as an investigator myself, I've seen how twisted and horrendous these Child abuse and neglect can go. It just really annoys me with Leah because this is such an easy thing to do. This makes it so Ali is still able to engage with her peers and siblings while staying safe or having something to help her while playing. 

Thanks guys for the replies. 

[ChocolateAddict]

More to the point, this is the third time that we have heard that Kail rang Jo and said "come and get Isaac" (Fight With Javi Part One, Fight With Javi Part Two and when she had school).  Vee and Jo are expected to drop what they are doing and rush over to Kail's or change plans quickly to pick Isaac up from school without any recognition.  I'm sure both of them love having Isaac around more but they both have school and a baby and unlike Kail do not have in-laws to leave little Vivi with.  Remember when Jo and Vee had to haul ass to Kail's in the rain and she rang him to complain that he wasn't there fast enough?  Heaven forbid that a couple with an infant not be race car driving to get to her house! 

Kail expects Vee and Jo to constantly be available to take Isaac at the drop of a hat and then comes over to their house to bitch endlessly about her drama.  She expects them to nod and say "Yes, Kail that must be terrible for you when your military spouse came back from deployment and wanted to speak to you about the kids and divorce" "Yes Kail, Javi is clearly an unstable maniac and we must protect Isaac from him" "Yes Kail it must have been hard in that six months when you had all your in-laws taking care of Lincoln and you left Isaac with us to go on vacation".  

Vee and Jo are more than entitled to their opinions and they haven't aired them in front of the kids.  I hardly see what damage Vee's twenty seconds of pure, beautiful logic will have on Isaac in the long run when all his life Kail has been screeching about Jo or Javi in front of him.  She has thrown absolute fits, sworn her head off and manipulated Isaac's feelings to suit her own purposes.  Like I said, Vee's glorious comments hardly rank. 

[jadecorleone]

13 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Agree. Usually when someone has a guardianship, they can determine visitation at will with no formal agreement to adhere to. I know someone who recently acquired guardianship and they were told it is up them whether they will allow the children to visit their father and other relatives. They hold all the cards.

Jenelle definitely uses her children to hurt Barb. There was an article posted here after Jenelle had her baby. It mentioned how she or UBT kicked Barb out of the delivery room. When Jenelle hasn't even given birth yet to the child she will use as a pawn, that is about as low as she can get.

As someone who will have guardianship of my best friends two kids if anything happens to her and her husband, my husband and I sat down to discuss how we would do things if gods forbid something bad did happen. Since both sets of grandparents live in the same state, he would try to transfer to a position there so the grandparents could still see the girls. We know and get along great with all of them so we see no reason to keep the girls from them.

The more I see of Janelle and Kail, the more I think that they only seem to love their kids as an extension of themselves if that makes any sense. Janelle has already shown that the second something doesnt match up exactly the way she wants or expects, she throws a tantrum. Kail isnt much better in that she had the gall to complain about how Jo was dressed during a drop off (If I remember correctly). If they complain about such petty stuff now, Im loathe to imagine what they will be like the second their kids start showing any shred of individuality.  Sorry, running low on coffee and Im rambling again.

[CaughtOnTape]

14 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Honestly I continue to see some connection and flirtation between Jo and Kail. I don't know if that's translated to anything but every time they interact I see a something. It's odd. 

I don't see flirtation.  I see that he's grown to understand her motivations.  He knows the life she's had and possibly has grown to feel sympathy for that.  He also knows that's Isaac's mother, the only one he has and if Kail succeeds, Isaac succeeds.  And even if he believed she was exaggerating the story (which it didn't sound like she was.  Sorry she may suck, but you come into my house without being invited and I'm going to have issues with that.  I don't care if you lived here before) it behooves him to forge peace with her then it does with Javi.  

Javi is an asshole.  He delights in poking at her and setting her off and then hangs back like "Oh, I'm not gonna argue with you."  He knew the kids were home when he charged into that house.  He doesn't give a shit about upsetting them, he just wants what he wants when he wants it.  His entitlement is off the charts.  

Javi was a dick to Jo and it's only by his grace that he gets to spend any time with Isaac now.  Jo has every right to say that he doesn't want Isaac around Javi when he's pulling shit like that.

Sorry Javi.  You were wrong in this instance.

[butterbody]

Best parts of the show for me were Pete the pig biting the fake baby's foot,  then rolling on his side for a belly rub, and Leah, trying to get career advice from the girlses while they played at the park. "Gracie, should mommy go back to school?"

"I don't care."

I swear, every time one of Jenelle's segments would end, I'd get mad at myself for not remembering to forward past them. She makes my blood boil. 

[ghoulina]

17 hours ago, nikita said:

Wasn't Javi cool with Jo until Kail expressed her displeasure with that? Not to mention, narcissists like her have a tried and true mating ritual which involves slagging off the ex as abusive, a cheater, a deadbeat dad and so on. She primed Javi to hate Jo, in my opinion.

I have the worst memory, but I seem to recall they were initially cool with each other. But Kail wasn't cool with Jo back then. So that didn't last. And then, once Kail DID start co-parenting better with Jo, things had gone to shit (very quickly!) with her and Javi, so Javi would use being a dick to Jo as a way to sort of bond with Kail and try to get back on her good side. 

Post separation, Javi and Jo were cool again...until Koolaid Kail smashed through the wall and wrecked things. 

17 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Mr. Guilfoyle@pp doesn't think Javi is a psycho for going into the house after Kailyn ditched him at Chipotle. I disagree. I do think it was wrong ethically, although not legally, for him to enter a house where his estranged wife is living with children. However, MG said "What if there was something wrong? He'd be the hero." I noticed how Kailyn left out the BS about ditching him at Chipotle in the retelling at Jo's house.

Exactly. While the way he went about it is wrong, she left that shit out for a reason. She knew SHE behaved inappropriately as well. Not only is playing games with the father of your child rude and unproductive, but it hurts your kids as well. The boys were probably all primed to go spend the night with Javi, then she tears off and heads back home because Javi can't control the damn traffic. 

[ghoulina]

3 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I think what Vee said to Kail's face about how she treated Jo and herself is hardly anything to be concerned with and surely it doesn't even make the top 1000 list of things that have occurred on camera and off camera that may affect Isaac.

Oh my gosh, yea. Vee's DGAF attitude was clearly showing, but compared to what comes out of these women's mouths on a daily basis, that was nothing. She was pretty diplomatic in how she said it, trying to see BOTH sides. I cannot see those few sentences uttered in that scene as being something Isaac ever focuses on one day. 

[lidarose9]

1 hour ago, CaughtOnTape said:

I don't see flirtation. 

I agree. Jo is simply being accommodating because he knows that Karl is a hosebeast who will transform into the Hulk at a moment's notice. He knows Karl will turn on him whenever it suits her, and the person who pays for that is Isaac. There was a point several years ago where he finally realized she is a deeply damaged person who has no self awareness, much less self restraint. Karl is broken inside, unable to admit she's wrong, lacking the maturity to to put her own needs second, even to her own children. Nobody can ever win an argument with her.

Like it or not, he is locked into a relationship with her for the rest of Isaac's life and he's trying to make the best of it by keeping out of harm's way whenever he can. It has been a good approach for the most part, except that it means Vee and Vivi also must dance to Karl's tune.

I don't think it's an accident that Karl has turned to Jo repeatedly during this break-up with Javi. Not only does she come over to his house to demand sympathy, she now feels entitled to use Jo as her Emergency Penis when these conflicts with Javi flare up. (I don't mean that in a sexual way.) Not only does Jo drop everything to "come get Isaac" -- he is also racing in there to be "on her side" when things get ugly with Javi. He's happy to do it cuz he truly wants to protect Isaac. (Does she? HELL NO. Here's a thought, Karl: try keeping your big fucking mouth shut.) Meanwhile, Jo doesn't see the smoke starting to come out of Vee's ears. He is going to be between a rock and a hard place very soon. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by lidarose9

[Adiba]

While it may not have been illegal, I do think it was wrong and unwise for Javi to show up in the house the way he did because he had to have known what a stink Kail was going to make of it, and that the ensuing drama would affect the children. He should have rang the bell, texted, and sat in the driveway until she answered. If she didn't, call the police and ask for a well check on the kids. 

Yes, Kail absolutely contributed to the situation by leaving Chipotle and not contacting Javi to set up another meeting place or agreeing to bring Lincoln out to him-- she's a ball- buster.

On another note, couldn't Javi have refused to leave the house in the first place when he came home? Some couples do live together until a divorce is finalized-- not that they should--but what gave Kail the legal right to basically kick him out?

[SPLAIN]

Quote

On another note, couldn't Javi have refused to leave the house in the first place when he came home? Some couples do live together until a divorce is finalized-- not that they should--but what gave Kail the legal right to basically kick him out?

She has no legal right. The way many of us see it, Javi left on his own accord in order to diffuse the situation and not remain in the house where Kail would likely assault him or she would accuse him of assaulting her. Although Javi had the legal right to remain in his home, it seems the better option was to leave. In these domestic violence situations, it is always best to leave if the option is available. Seeing how the Hulk has now put a PFA on him for mere verbal words, not threatening, just verbal harassment, in hindsight it was the best move he made since coming home.

Quote

He should have rang the bell, texted, and sat in the driveway until she answered. If she didn't, call the police and ask for a well check on the kids. 

Very good point. Just one of many things that could have been done. It was unwise of him to go into the home the way he did even though it was his lawful right to enter his premises.

[HeySandyStrange]

20 minutes ago, Adiba said:

 

On another note, couldn't Javi have refused to leave the house in the first place when he came home? Some couples do live together until a divorce is finalized-- not that they should--but what gave Kail the legal right to basically kick him out?

She had none, as far as we have been able to figure on these boards. Javi is a bit of a passive people pleaser, so he might have thought moving out would get him in her good graces again. The other thought that was tossed around here is that he was afraid how Kail would retaliate if he forced her hand. I can only imagine what a living hell she would've made his life, up to and including altercations that she would've likely started but he would take the fall for.  All he would need is a DV charge on his record, since Kail is the Teflon Don of DV charges. 

On a slightly separate note, I really hope she she gets rightly charged for her abusive actions some day soon. It makes me ill that she is getting away with it.

Edited March 8, 2017 by HeySandyStrange

[BitterApple]

Javi has a lot more to lose than Kail does. A DV on his record and the accompanying dishonorable discharge would fuck him over for life. I don't blame him for not wanting to remain in a home with a sociopathic liar who uses the justice system as a pawn in her game of chess. Now with that said, sneaking into the house was an irrational and foolish thing to do. Giving Kail any ammo to use against him was a bad move. I hope somebody in Javi's family had a Come to Jesus meeting with him afterwards.

Edited March 8, 2017 by BitterApple

[guilfoyleatpp]

1 hour ago, jadecorleone said:

The more I see of Janelle and Kail, the more I think that they only seem to love their kids as an extension of themselves if that makes any sense. Janelle has already shown that the second something doesnt match up exactly the way she wants or expects, she throws a tantrum. Kail isnt much better in that she had the gall to complain about how Jo was dressed during a drop off (If I remember correctly). If they complain about such petty stuff now, Im loathe to imagine what they will be like the second their kids start showing any shred of individuality. 

ding ding ding! The bolded behavior (very astute) is the sign of a narcissist. A narc parent loves their children as long as they are behaving well and being a good reflection of the parent - thus Kail's obsession with Isaac's appearance and clothing and Jailnelle's obsession with how it looks to have her own mother raising her son. Narcissists are very common and they fuck up their children a lot. 

I hope that these terrible mommies don't engage in selecting a scapegoat and a golden child...although it looks like Jailnelle has already decided that Kaiser is the fuckup and Emoryboard is the angel.  

[jadecorleone]

7 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Javi has a lot more to lose than Kail does. A DV on his record and the accompanying dishonorable discharge would fuck him over for life. I don't blame him for not wanting to remain in a home with a sociopathic liar who uses the justice system as a pawn in her game of chess. Now with that said, sneaking into the house was an irrational and foolish thing to do. Giving Kail any ammo to use against him was a bad move. I hope somebody in Javi's family had a Come to Jesus meeting with him afterwards.

And considering a lot of states treat a dishonorable discharge like a felony conviction, it would screw him in more ways than he could imagine.

[BitterApple]

12 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

 

I hope that these terrible mommies don't engage in selecting a scapegoat and a golden child...although it looks like Jailnelle has already decided that Kaiser is the fuckup and Emoryboard is the angel.  

Sadly, they all do. My grandmother had NPD and her children are a bunch of basketcases. She had a very clear golden child and a very clear scapegoat and there was zero confusion about which children filled those roles.

For Kail, I think the Golden Child will be Isaac and the Scapegoat will be the new baby that she didn't even want to begin with. After all, Baby #3 is the one who's bringing Kail loads of judgment and criticism from the Interwebs, and that's a huge blow to her massive ego. Not to mention his/her father dropped Kail like a bad habit, and we all know Kail holds grudges like nobody's business. #3 is coming into the world with a lot of strikes against him, the poor thing.

[CofCinci]

Jo eyefucks Kail in every shared scene.  He has Stockholm Syndrome. 

[ghoulina]

Re: Jo-Kail possibly flirting. 

I don't see that. I see Jo being more comfortable around her now that they're working better together. But he's still not totally comfortable. He knows how she can flip on a dime. So instead of blatantly calling her out on shit, he brings up her flaws in a sort-of teasing way. It doesn't sound as bad and if she freaks he can be all, "I was just kidding!" 

But Kail, narcissist that she is, might very well read his light banter as flirting, because she has been sort of lighting up lately when he does this crap. 

Mixed signals is what I'm seeing. 

[ReadMeLattice]

Yeah, I definitely don't think Jo is exactly being dumped on. He seemed all too happy to jump in with questioning Javi and his behavior. Maybe that's because of some territory-guarding, maybe just a 100% genuine desire to protect his son. But I didn't see any manipulation in that particular scene. What I did see was that Vee is not going to be pleased if he keeps contradicting her in favor of Kail. He should watch that. Not that he has to completely agree with Vee but he has a buddy-buddy relationship with Kail now and that can be both good and bad. 

The facts were that Javi entered the basement after giving the key back and ostensibly moving out. The kids don't know what's up legally or that he has the legal right (which of course he does)...All they know is that mom and Dad/Javi are fighting and now Dad is suddenly here when they both said he was moving out, and now the cops are here and questioning our parents. Has to be confusing, even if they're not afraid of Javi hurting them they're certainly going to be anxious about the situation. That's not right for Javi to put on them no matter how much of a raging bitch Kailyn is or how much fault she disproportionately had in the divorce. 

I have to admit I had some pleasure in seeing Javi get vindicated by the cops, not because he's not a dick but because Kail is so self righteous. But I still felt bad for the kids. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Lm2162

[SheTalksShit]

16 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Amber Portwood gave an interview and confirmed a trust is an option they can establish. It is not required for MTV to establish nor are the parents of the kids required to establish one. Another article also verified this information. They are not employees of MTV, simply independent contractors. They are not required to set up a trust as if they are SAG members.

I didn't imply Barb would cash his check. I am simply pointing out as his guardian she would be the one to receive his money as opposed to Jenelle.

but would the check be written out to Jace or to Babs? And the reason I thought otherwise was another poster said this:

Edited March 8, 2017 by SheTalksShit

[SPLAIN]

Kail requested Javi back to their place during the holidays. The timeline of the show seems to show this basement creeping took place in October at the latest early November. She calls the police on him and demands he leave, and yet, she wants him back at their home after that incident for the holidays. How is all this going back and forth business benefiting the kids? The boys have no clue what is going on. They are possibly excited with glee when they have their dad around, and then suddenly, he is not supposed to be there. Terrible mixed messages that Hulk is sending out. It is disgusting, foul, and mentally abusive.

SheTalksShit think of it as a child support check or any monies that are doled out for the benefit of children under other circumstances. Checks are written out to the adult on behalf of the children.

Edited March 8, 2017 by SPLAIN