S08.E15: Finding Fizbo

[Artsda]

Quote

Cam is enraged when he receives an online video showing someone has been desecrating his beloved Fizbo costume, which sets him on a quest to restore Fizbo's good name. Meanwhile, Phil is in for quite the surprise when he finally meets his new soon-to-be step-brother at Frank's bachelor party.  

[Vyk]

Really disappointed that Lily only got one scene.  And where, again, were Luke and Joe?

I actually really liked the Gloria/Claire/Haley/Alex/Manny scenes since they truly brought out some good glances into the women's dynamics.  It brought out a sweet moment between Haley and Alex, after all, and a decent moment between Gloria and Claire.  Of course, as we saw, despite asking for critiques, Manny was clearly not willing to take one when Claire was going to bring it up, nor did he seem to like Haley and Alex shooting down the parallels to their own characters at the end.

I enjoyed the Jay/Phil/Frank/Ray scenes, but I'm a bit confused as to how Jay suddenly went from enjoying Ray's idea to ditch Phil and have a better bachelor party for Frank to realizing Ray was an ass.  For that matter, I wonder how Frank realized it, too?  Not that I disagreed with Ray.  Phil's party, while sweet in terms of thinking of what Frank would like, was incredibly lame for Jay and Ray.  Who the fuck is Neil Sedaka, anyway?  At least Frank admitted he wants to move closer to Phil . . . and away from Ray.

As much as I do like Cam (I know it's a UO here, but I do like him), Louise was right that he makes too many things about himself.  Just a pity it took a one-shot character we're likely not going to see again to call him out on that.  Still, sabotaging her own team by getting in his head over Fizbo seemed kind of wrong, because it wasn't just Cam she was screwing over, but also Mitchell, who finally had a real shot at a championship for a sport.  She basically took it away from him just to get back at Cam.  That said, I liked Mitchell having to eat crow and admit that Cam was right about being gaslighted.  "Oh, damn it, I hate when you're right."

Speaking of the Louise actress, I think I saw her on Days of our Lives.  Her character got killed by another character played by T-Boz from the former TLC and some other woman during a women's prison storyline for Kristian Alfonso's Hope.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Vyk

[Tosia]

Louise was the gym coach, Beast, on Glee. Was she transgender?  I don't remember, cuz I didnt watch that often.  I liked her character on MF tonight, and hope she comes back. 

Neil Sedaka is a singer/song writer from the early 60's.  Big hit was, ."Breaking up is hard to do", and maybe one or two others that don't come to mind--was another song called, " Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen, lalalala, lalalalalalala"? He looked old even when he was young.  

This show is dragging its ass out the door by doing the same storylines every week. 

Clare is difficult to watch because of her bony frame and jerky gestures. Grim. Heart attack is imminent. 

I love Jay, but he can't carry everyone.  

I like Mitch snd Cam, but they both would wear on my nerves, and are doing so. 

Manny? Pfft. 

Others? Don't care.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Tosia
I listen to an oldies radio station in the a.m., cuz I like the d.j.'s voice.

[Blakeston]

Oliver Platt's character's creepiness has never been funny to me at all. It seems like his idea of playing a gay man is to throw on a lisp and act like a sex offender.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Blakeston

[DrSpaceman73]

Was hoping for more from the Claire/women storyline.  Seemed too on the nose and was hoping to hear more of the actual story rather than them arguing about it.  Though I did like Alex and her "motorboating" lines. 

The bowling story seemed convoluted.  Likely others on the team except Mitch feel the same way about Cam, probably all she had to do was talk to them and vote him out, or however they do it, as team captain.  I guess it depends on how many players are on the team. 

Cam just has too many enemies.  Maybe he should consider why that is the case. 

Quote

I enjoyed the Jay/Phil/Frank/Ray scenes, but I'm a bit confused as to how Jay suddenly went from enjoying Ray's idea to ditch Phil and have a better bachelor party for Frank to realizing Ray was an ass.  For that matter, I wonder how Frank realized it, too?  Not that I disagreed with Ray.  Phil's party, while sweet in terms of thinking of what Frank would like, was incredibly lame for Jay and Ray.  Who the fuck is Neil Sedaka, anyway?  At least Frank admitted he wants to move closer to Phil . . . and away from Ray.

I think its pretty easy to see that both 1.  Phil's party was lame and 2.  Ray is an ass.   The two aren't mutually exclusive by any means. 

[LaChavalina]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Oliver Platt's character's creepiness has never been funny to me at all. It seems like idea of playing a gay man is to throw on a lisp and act like a sex offender.

I find the Spanish teacher hilarious, though. Every time he's on. 

[Quickbeam]

"You're Canadian!"...I love the Spanish teacher too. 

Mitchell getting the trophy in the last frames of the show made me laugh. 

[AriAu]

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Mitchell getting the trophy in the last frames of the show made me laugh. 

Our dvr cut out so I missed that.

Overall, not all that funny. Normally, I crack up at Fizbo episodes since they seem to know how to write the wise cracks about clowns, but there really was not much there.

Quote

 Though I did like Alex and her "motorboating" lines. 

Think that was all "meta" enough considering Ariel Winter has been very open about her breast reduction and the show had previously gone out its way to hide or play down that aspect of the characters anatomy. I admire the stance that the actress has been taking against "body shamers" and other internet trolls.

[DrSpaceman73]

12 minutes ago, AriAu said:

Our dvr cut out so I missed that.

Overall, not all that funny. Normally, I crack up at Fizbo episodes since they seem to know how to write the wise cracks about clowns, but there really was not much there.

Think that was all "meta" enough considering Ariel Winter has been very open about her breast reduction and the show had previously gone out its way to hide or play down that aspect of the characters anatomy. I admire the stance that the actress has been taking against "body shamers" and other internet trolls.

 

I actually tire of reading about Ariel Winter in the media and this or that outfit she is wearing.  I think she is overdoing it.  

[Tosia]

I did laugh at the motorboating joke,  and I was surprised that writers went there,  but Winter is an adult--and quite beautiful,  overall. I so want her character (and Haley's) to be two-dimensional in her personality as well--people grow up and change,  esp. when they learn from relationships--we hope. I guess character exaggeration is a tv thing.  

I loved the bowling names--Pindigo Girls, etc.  Very clever.  And Will Sasso always makes me smile.  

So, I amended my previous hate post. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Tosia
Damn you MF, you made me love you, again --thanks to reminders by the posters above.

[Ions Earring]

Send Manny to space!

[tennisgurl]

Of course every bowling league team has a pun title. Of course they do.

I love whenever the Spanish teacher shows up, and he was hilarious here. "Your Canadian!" "That might be a red flag."

Wow, Phil's party really was super lame, but I would think that Phil's dad would like that kind of lameness. Ray was an asshole though.

[Traveller519]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, Phil's party really was super lame, but I would think that Phil's dad would like that kind of lameness. Ray was an asshole though.

I think he was enjoying himself, but felt self-conscious with Ray being there, and Jay to an extent.

"Do you know what I could be doing right now if I didn't get sea sick." Haha, that made me laugh. I do appreciate mixing up the family units to get some of the other dynamics flushed out.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

14 hours ago, Vyk said:

Really disappointed that Lily only got one scene.  And where, again, were Luke and Joe?

I've read that the 4 older kid actors get $70,000 per episode (not sure if this is true for Lily and Joe).  If 2 of them don't appear in an episode, does the show save their salaries, or do they have a full episode payment guarantee? 

[ari333]

I  miss Lily when she has little or no scenes. And fwiw, I hope she gets paid more than the Joe character. She's older and has been on the show longer.

[Nordly Beaumont]

19 hours ago, Tosia said:

Neil Sedaka is a singer/song writer from the early 60's.  Big hit was, ."Breaking up is hard to do", and maybe one or two others that don't come to mind--was another song called, " Happy Birthday Sweet Sixteen, lalalala, lalalalalalala"? He looked old even when he was young.  

He's one of those that looked better when he actually did get older. His age finally caught up to his face.  Yes, Happy Birthday Sweet 16 was his. He wrote hundreds of songs for others and had a resurgence in the 70's with Bad Blood (backup vocals by Sir Elton John!) and Laughter in the Rain (also wrote a lot of hits for The Captain and Tenille and the Carpenters). I agree with Jay, Neil Diamond would have been better (although I did enjoy Sedaka's 70's stuff).

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, Phil's party really was super lame, but I would think that Phil's dad would like that kind of lameness. 

It seemed like something Phil and his dad should have just done on their own, forget the party!

[biakbiak]

12 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

The bowling story seemed convoluted.  Likely others on the team except Mitch feel the same way about Cam, probably all she had to do was talk to them and vote him out, or however they do it, as team captain.  I guess it depends on how many players are on the team. 

There league seemed to be comprised of four player teams which is fairly standard so it would be a tie.

[mojito]

My chuckles:

Pindigo Girls

"You wear lipstick?"

Quote

Send Manny to space!

I've always liked Manny, but I'm kind of tired of him, and of Cam. Never cared for Lily. Seems like she's repeating lines that someone just recited to her.

[kat165]

I think Phil planned activities that he thought his dad would enjoy.
Dad tolerated Ray cause he's marrying the guy's mother. Phil's dad
is nothing if not polite and considerate which is also probably why
he went off with Jay and Ray (funny, sounds like an old early 60's
comedy act).

Jay probably tolerated Ray temporarily because Ray wanted to do things
that are more to Jay's taste. But ultimately Jay is a good guy and could
only put up with so much of Ray's bs.

I loathe Cam but I think Eric Stonestreet really sold his part of the
script. First time I've ever been impressed with his acting.

Loved the Haley/Alex moment and happy to see some sister bonding. 
They're getting older and it would be nice to see them be supportive
of each other.

Eh for Claire and Gloria as both are usually too over the top for me.
I was shocked that the women would submit to Manny's reading of his
play. Sounds like one boring, insufferable evening! 

Nice to see Lily. I wish they'd give her a storyline. I love her dry
wit.

[DB in CMH]

I hate John Gemberling SO much. It's really irrational at this point. He falls into that Jonah Hill category for me if actors that ruin whatever they appear in.

[WaitForMe]

Yeah I had to look him up too. Didn't like him at all, but maybe we're not supposed to.  

[vibeology]

9 hours ago, kat165 said:

Eh for Claire and Gloria as both are usually too over the top for me. I was shocked that the women would submit to Manny's reading of his play. Sounds like one boring, insufferable evening! 

I can't even imagine how tedious the entire play would have been. Honestly, does anyone think Manny would excel at writing women? Or even be passable? Because based on the little bit we got and based on Manny's character, I can only imagine it as a disaster.

Overall, I thought this episode was a big old nothing. None of the plots were that exciting or that funny. The Fizbo stuff seemed pretty obvious to me since why cast Dot-Marie Jones if not to have her do something? It's like on a procedural where the most famous guest star is always the murderer. And obviously the mystery isn't the point of the plot but otherwise it was a retread of Cam is dramatic, Mitch is annoyed, Mitch gets on board and resolution that happens all the time with these two.

[xander874]

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I've read that the 4 older kid actors get $70,000 per episode (not sure if this is true for Lily and Joe).  If 2 of them don't appear in an episode, does the show save their salaries, or do they have a full episode payment guarantee? 

I bet they have something like 16-18 episode guarantees so they get paid for those and sit out the remainder of the episodes. That seems to be a norm now in many TV shows where all the "regulars" don't appear in every episode to save money.

Quote

Louise was the gym coach, Beast, on Glee. Was she transgender? 

Yep, she became Sheldon Bieste in the last season. Which was a terrible decision because they had previously spent so much time making a big deal out of her wanting to feel like a woman even though she had so many manly traits. Sorry, off-topic. It makes me ragey a bit.

And I was slightly taken aback at Alex talking about Ben having a tattoo on his butt, which means they have probably had sex. I realize Alex is an adult but she has mostly seemed PG when it came to her romantic life. I'm good with that though because they do treat Alex like a kid a lot of times and she is not.

Edited March 3, 2017 by xander874

[Driad]

Did they ever say where the name Fizbo came from? When Fizbo was first introduced I wondered if Phil had suggested the name. In real estate FSBO means "for sale by owner" so if Phil tried to think up an unusual name he might think of Fizbo.

[Phishbulb]

22 hours ago, Tosia said:

I did laugh at the motorboating joke,  and I was surprised that writers went there

While this was funny, it also required them changing Alex's character just for this joke to make her as dumb as Haley would normally be.

Alex is intelligent and would realize the double-entendre of what "motorboating" means.

[ChipBach]

1 hour ago, Phishbulb said:

While this was funny, it also required them changing Alex's character just for this joke to make her as dumb as Haley would normally be.

Alex is intelligent and would realize the double-entendre of what "motorboating" means.

Yeah - I think we've jumped a shark.  I put my "Modern Family" energy in "Life in Pieces".  It's got the fresh writing MF used to have.

[Unclejosh]

The actor who played Ray is awful and has been the same dickhead character in everything I have seen him in.  He is like the worst aspects of Zack Galifianakas without any of the humor he can bring when he tones those aspects down.  Just terrible.

I don't think Alex has been a virgin for quite some time and while they downplay it unlike Haley, it isn't something that is not known either.

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, vibeology said:

I can't even imagine how tedious the entire play would have been. Honestly, does anyone think Manny would excel at writing women? Or even be passable? Because based on the little bit we got and based on Manny's character, I can only imagine it as a disaster.

It is obvious that Manny just wanted all his pretty female relatives to fawn over him (and as usual, only Gloria did) and tell him how brilliant and sensitive he is as a writer.

His female characters are stereotypes and he has no understanding of real women's issues, beyond his fantasies.  He was totally defensive of any of the criticisms and I am sick of his mother catering to his every special snowflake whim.

I would often wonder why Manny and Alex are not better friends and I realized that is because Alex is actually smart, while Manny is a pseudo intellectual artist wannabe.

For such an awesome woman, Gloria raised a real loser of a son.

[Tosia]

4 hours ago, Phishbulb said:

While this was funny, it also required them changing Alex's character just for this joke to make her as dumb as Haley would normally be.

Alex is intelligent and would realize the double-entendre of what "motorboating" means.

Respectfully, I disagree. Alex is book smart, not street- wise, or up on slang terms, especially sexual ones--given her penchant for younger men and/or fellow nerds.  

[AnnaRose]

8 hours ago, Tosia said:

13 hours ago, Phishbulb said:

While this was funny, it also required them changing Alex's character just for this joke to make her as dumb as Haley would normally be.

Alex is intelligent and would realize the double-entendre of what "motorboating" means.

Respectfully, I disagree. Alex is book smart, not street- wise, or up on slang terms, especially sexual ones--given her penchant for younger men and/or fellow nerds.  

I only learned the term while I was watching the awesome television series Playing House.  I still don't get the appeal or point of it though.  (Unless I totally misunderstood it.)   Whatever floats your boat I guess.  (Or propels it.)

[DarkRaichu]

On 3/2/2017 at 10:24 PM, kat165 said:

I was shocked that the women would submit to Manny's reading of his
play. Sounds like one boring, insufferable evening! 

Gloria would because it was Manny's play.  I would not be surprised if she had to either bribe the others or call in old favors to get the others to stay

 

6 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

I only learned the term while I was watching the awesome television series Playing House.  I still don't get the appeal or point of it though.  (Unless I totally misunderstood it.)   Whatever floats your boat I guess.  (Or propels it.)

I am a male and I do not get it either.  To me it just looks and sounds like a bad technique

[DrSpaceman73]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 1:36 PM, qtpye said:

It is obvious that Manny just wanted all his pretty female relatives to fawn over him (and as usual, only Gloria did) and tell him how brilliant and sensitive he is as a writer.

His female characters are stereotypes and he has no understanding of real women's issues, beyond his fantasies.  He was totally defensive of any of the criticisms and I am sick of his mother catering to his every special snowflake whim.

I would often wonder why Manny and Alex are not better friends and I realized that is because Alex is actually smart, while Manny is a pseudo intellectual artist wannabe.

For such an awesome woman, Gloria raised a real loser of a son.

 

I wouldn't say he is a loser. 

I think he is just blind to the limits of his artistic talents, which is largely a result of Gloria's constant praise over everything he does.  I am sure he is smart and does well in school

He strikes me at the type that would try to be an artist, fail, and then end bitter over his failure because no one recognizes his talent.  The he'd turn to being a professor or an art critic. 

And yes I am sure his play was awful. 

[Lone Wolf]

On 3/2/2017 at 7:00 AM, AriAu said:

Our dvr cut out so I missed that.

Overall, not all that funny. Normally, I crack up at Fizbo episodes since they seem to know how to write the wise cracks about clowns, but there really was not much there.

Think that was all "meta" enough considering Ariel Winter has been very open about her breast reduction and the show had previously gone out its way to hide or play down that aspect of the characters anatomy. I admire the stance that the actress has been taking against "body shamers" and other internet trolls.

Meta was my first thought, and then I was certain when it was followed by Haley's line that Alex was wearing the only bra that fit her right.  No doubt.

[qtpye]

To me he is a loser, because he paints himself as sensitive and progressive and he has some pretty backwards view on women.  He does not really want to get to know them or care about them.  They are there to feed his ego, but he thinks of himself as very sensitive.

[jhlipton]

On 3/2/2017 at 0:37 AM, Vyk said:

 Phil's party, while sweet in terms of thinking of what Frank would like, was incredibly lame for Jay and Ray. 

Phil knew exactly what his dad would like.  It was Jay's problem (then Ray's) making the party about him.

On 3/2/2017 at 7:48 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

Phil's party was lame

Phil's party wasn't lame to the one and only person who counted.  Frank was loving it.

[Vyk]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 11:36 AM, qtpye said:

It is obvious that Manny just wanted all his pretty female relatives to fawn over him (and as usual, only Gloria did) and tell him how brilliant and sensitive he is as a writer.

His female characters are stereotypes and he has no understanding of real women's issues, beyond his fantasies.  He was totally defensive of any of the criticisms and I am sick of his mother catering to his every special snowflake whim.

I think that was the point to showing Manny's confessional -- to show that Manny thought he understood women, and then juxtapose it with the actual events and show that he in fact understood women only a very little bit, if at all.

[AnnaRose]

8 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Phil knew exactly what his dad would like.  It was Jay's problem (then Ray's) making the party about him.

Phil's party wasn't lame to the one and only person who counted.  Frank was loving it.

Thank you Jhlipton!  That's exactly what I was thinking.  Phil planned the perfect party for his dad.  Frank was obviously really enjoying the singers before Ray rudely stopped them and sent them away.  And Frank said he was waiting most of his life to see Neil Sedaka, so who are Jay and Ray to ruin that for him?  The party was supposed to be for Frank, not those two self-centered idiots.  (Okay, Ray was mainly the self-centered idiot, but Jay went along with it.  And Frank is too nice to object.)

I really didn't care for this episode at all, other than the nice moments between Haley and Alex, and Frank and Phil.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 3/4/2017 at 5:52 PM, Lone Wolf said:

Meta was my first thought, and then I was certain when it was followed by Haley's line that Alex was wearing the only bra that fit her right.  No doubt.

Clearly I missed something here. Was Alex referring to something other than a water sport? Sigh. I feel old. 

On 3/3/2017 at 1:36 PM, qtpye said:

It is obvious that Manny just wanted all his pretty female relatives to fawn over him (and as usual, only Gloria did) and tell him how brilliant and sensitive he is as a writer.

His female characters are stereotypes and he has no understanding of real women's issues, beyond his fantasies.  He was totally defensive of any of the criticisms and I am sick of his mother catering to his every special snowflake whim.

I would often wonder why Manny and Alex are not better friends and I realized that is because Alex is actually smart, while Manny is a pseudo intellectual artist wannabe.

For such an awesome woman, Gloria raised a real loser of a son.

I think Gloria has a lot of great qualities. But she is reaping what she has sown. Her failure to be upfront and realistic with Manny has helped give him an inflated sense of his abilities. He will be hard to date and marry, and will struggle in the real world if he doesn't soon wise up. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 3/2/2017 at 0:37 AM, Vyk said:

As much as I do like Cam (I know it's a UO here, but I do like him), Louise was right that he makes too many things about himself.  Just a pity it took a one-shot character we're likely not going to see again to call him out on that.  Still, sabotaging her own team by getting in his head over Fizbo seemed kind of wrong, because it wasn't just Cam she was screwing over, but also Mitchell, who finally had a real shot at a championship for a sport.  She basically took it away from him just to get back at Cam.  That said, I liked Mitchell having to eat crow and admit that Cam was right about being gaslighted.  "Oh, damn it, I hate when you're right."

I kinda like Cam, too. I say kinda because he can get annoying but his character cracks me up. It was Cam who made me fall in love with this show when I first started watching (years after the original episodes aired). I love when he and Mitchell are on the same side, but that doesn't happen too often and it makes them unbelievable as a couple. 

But yes, Louise was right. And I was wondering if we'd ever seen her character before because the show sure made it seem like we had. I wonder why a regular character, or even one we've seen more often, couldn't be the one to make show Cam the error of his ways. 

[indeed]

Probably because people have tried in the past and it just doesn't sink in with him for more than a split second, if at all.  Louise is new to the scene, she doesn't know any better - she still has hope.  ;)

Edited March 6, 2017 by indeed

[jhlipton]

7 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Clearly I missed something here. Was Alex referring to something other than a water sport? Sigh. I feel old.

How to do describe "motorboating"????  It is a very silly thing where one person puts their face between a woman's breasts and makes motorboats sounds, often while wagging their head (as much as they can).  Short video of examples (with no nudity) here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1049927/Men-motorboating-girls-Breast-Cancer-Awareness.html

[love2lovebadtv]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

How to do describe "motorboating"????  It is a very silly thing where one person puts their face between a woman's breasts and makes motorboats sounds, often while wagging their head (as much as they can).  Short video of examples (with no nudity) here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1049927/Men-motorboating-girls-Breast-Cancer-Awareness.html

Wow, I was totally off. Thank you for sharing. I really had no idea and spent the entire episode thinking a customer at the café was asking Alex out on a date. I'm as clueless as she is lol. 

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Wow, I was totally off. Thank you for sharing. I really had no idea and spent the entire episode thinking a customer at the café was asking Alex out on a date. I'm as clueless as she is lol. 

LOL

[Eolivet]

On 3/2/2017 at 0:37 AM, Vyk said:

Of course, as we saw, despite asking for critiques, Manny was clearly not willing to take one

Which was obvious, given my favorite line of the night:

(paraphrased) "I want to hear the positives -- what you liked, what you loved -- and the negatives -- what went over your head."

Manny is every bad writer ever.

Glad to see Dot-Marie Jones getting work (she was awesome on Glee), though she was sort of slumming it here. I did kind of like that her reason for soiling Fizbo's "good name" was merely that Cam bugged her.

Wow, this was a really guest star-heavy episode.

[vibeology]

3 hours ago, Eolivet said:

Which was obvious, given my favorite line of the night:

(paraphrased) "I want to hear the positives -- what you liked, what you loved -- and the negatives -- what went over your head."

Manny is every bad writer ever.

Exactly. I know this plot was really just set up for Alex & Haley and Claire & Gloria connecting but man, did it miss the boat on dealing with Manny. He needed some comeuppance at the end for using the women in his life and writing them so flatly. To me, that's the one thing lacking from this plot.

[indeed]

Yes, it would've been nice if Manny faced more harsh truths than his ending was trite.

Two episodes in a row of Claire and Gloria connecting...will they go for three? 

[jhlipton]

On 3/6/2017 at 10:53 PM, love2lovebadtv said:

Wow, I was totally off. Thank you for sharing. I really had no idea and spent the entire episode thinking a customer at the café was asking Alex out on a date. I'm as clueless as she is lol. 

The Detour had several examples this week/

[Vyk]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 7:18 AM, AnnaRose said:

Thank you Jhlipton!  That's exactly what I was thinking.  Phil planned the perfect party for his dad.  Frank was obviously really enjoying the singers before Ray rudely stopped them and sent them away.  And Frank said he was waiting most of his life to see Neil Sedaka, so who are Jay and Ray to ruin that for him?  The party was supposed to be for Frank, not those two self-centered idiots.  (Okay, Ray was mainly the self-centered idiot, but Jay went along with it.  And Frank is too nice to object.)

Oh, absolutely.  I want to be clear that I agree that the party was perfect for Frank.  However, Phil still should've anticipated that Jay and Ray wouldn't have any fun (or at least picked up on it from their reactions) and found some way to make the party fun for all of them.  Either that, or politely give them the option to excuse themselves and just do all of that alone with Frank.  Either way, no feelings are hurt among the men.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Vyk said:

Oh, absolutely.  I want to be clear that I agree that the party was perfect for Frank.  However, Phil still should've anticipated that Jay and Ray wouldn't have any fun (or at least picked up on it from their reactions) and found some way to make the party fun for all of them.  Either that, or politely give them the option to excuse themselves and just do all of that alone with Frank.  Either way, no feelings are hurt among the men.

I'm sure that Jay has been dragged to various forms of entertainment that he didn't care for by Closets Clients.  Suck it up, buttercup.

[biakbiak]

36 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

I'm sure that Jay has been dragged to various forms of entertainment that he didn't care for by Closets Clients.  Suck it up, buttercup.

For reals haven't we all. It's Frank's bachelor party it should be about him. I know I have sat through things for friends and family that were worse than that and Jay has also been known to like some similar stuff and Ray should be happy his insufferable ass was invited.