S01.E02: Chapter Two: A Touch of Evil

[MarkHB]

As new details of Jason’s death begin to emerge, Archie pleads with Miss Grundy to come forward with what they heard at Sweetwater River.  Betty makes an effort to mend her friendship with Archie but takes a different stance with Veronica who is trying to make up for her actions.  With rumors around her brother’s death running rampant, Cheryl deals with the pressure in true Queen Bee fashion, while tensions boil over when Jughead stumbles upon a secret Archie was hoping to keep hidden.  Finally, plans for the annual fall pep rally move forward with a performance by Josie and the Pussycats and a special appearance by Mayor McCoy.

[Primetimer]

With a murder investigation now in full swing, Archie is tied in sexy knots over whether to tell the cops what he knows about the 4th of July and ruin his dumb teacher romance forever.

View the full article

[ihavenoidea]

Ok I'm repeating myself from last week, but this entire show would be better with no Archie at all.

[jay741982]

Digging this show. Really liked Betty and Veronica making an agreement to not let boys come between them hopefully that lasts cause I like their friendship. Reggie is an ass. Called Cheryl buddying up to Betty as her trying to get info. Noticed more incestuous vibes between Jason and Cheryl. Good to see Archie wants to do the right thing. Was that Betty in a Black wig in the preview . I'm not gonna spoil but some of the spoliers in the thread that seem crazy just may be true. More thoughts later 

[Dave in Chicago]

Practically nothing happened in this episode, no new information revealed until the last 7 minutes. (Something "Stranger Things" was also frequently guilty of.) I'm still on board for now, but even as a place-setting, re-pilot ep, this was pretty thin.

[Sakura12]

The dialogue on this show is still terrible, but I am interested to see where this show is going. I'm liking the Betty and Veronica friendship. I do hope they don't let Archie come between them because I'm still not seeing his appeal. They are better of without him. 

Cheryl and Jason were definitely involved in twinscest. And with Cheryl saying Jason was supposed to come back mean that they had some plan to get sympathy and their 15 minutes of fame, only Jason got killed by someone or did Cheryl hire someone to keep him captive and they were supposed to let him go, not kill him? I did like that we saw her break down because she was acting like sociopath. 

[SeanC]

Veronica was maybe pushing the reconciliation with Betty a bit hard, though points for effort -- particularly the Magnolia cupcakes; I eat at Magnolia's every time I go to New York, that would have won me over on its own (though if she was really going for it, she'd have imported some of their blueberry cheesecake).  Though she can afford that, but her mom works as a waitress now?

A lot of the characters on this show require really stylized acting (particularly Cheryl), which could easily go awry, but somehow it all fits together pretty well.

They've done a good job giving Betty a multi-faceted personality beyond just being "nice".  When she made that crack about Veronica pretending to be a butterfly when she was actually a wasp, I momentarily imagined that was a pun on WASP, but, of course, that doesn't work with this Veronica (it would with the comics version).

Edited February 3, 2017 by SeanC

[jay741982]

5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Veronica was maybe pushing the reconciliation with Betty a bit hard, though points for effort -- particularly the Magnolia cupcakes; I eat at Magnolia's every time I go to New York, that would have won me over on its own (though if she was really going for it, she'd have imported some of their blueberry cheesecake).  Though she can afford that, but her mom works as a waitress now?

A lot of the characters on this show require really stylized acting (particularly Cheryl), which could easily go awry, but somehow it all fits together pretty well.

Lol the way Veronica was pushing for a reconciliation looked like she was apologizing to a significant other lol.  Betty and Veronica are still my top two characters on the show. Also liked getting more of Jughead tonight 

[NorthstarATL]

The Jughead actor is the weak link for me on the show. His delivery doesn't seem natural at all. I know it's the soap opera-ish aspect of who he was with on the morning Jason was presumed killed (until the end of the episode), but Archie hearing something that sounded like a gunshot doesn't really add anything significant enough to the investigation to angst over. It's not as if he saw anything, or that he or Ms. G can attest that a gunshot is definitively what they heard.

  I liked the 'Cats' version of "Sugar Sugar", but all that electrical equipment in the rain seemed like a dumb idea. Was it to make the episode "dark"? I'm surprised the town's body count isn't higher.

[shapeshifter]

Being literally older than most dirt, I was addicted to Archie comics in the 60s before I started "junior high" (middle school) and began living out the triangle angst over and over and over again (which is why I don't watch soaps) but I will watch this show when it's convenient for the nostalgia.

ETA: I enjoyed the bit of "Sugar Sugar" that they played but have to admit that when I heard it on the radio back when it was "on the charts" by The Archies, I had no idea that those Archies were in anyway associated with the Archie comic books I read a few years earlier. 

So I guess they aren't going for a Reggie-Betty pairing while Betty continues to pine for Archie like in the early comics — or will they?

Too bad Miss Grundy isn't skinny and gray-haired so viewers like me could have someone to relate to.

I loved Luke Perry's line last episode about how if you really want to do something, you shouldn't have to lie about it. Too bad that was apparently just a one-off.

Edited February 3, 2017 by shapeshifter

[bmoore4026]

OK, Jason's wig was way, way worse than Archie's.  Just sayin'.

Why can't Mister Weatherbee be fat?  I'm fine with him being black, by can't he be fat.

Poor Betty.  Her mother's evil.  But, the cat has claws and she bared them to Bunt-with-a-C Queen Cheryl, Cover Girl lips and all.  Also, Cheryl, you breaking down at the prep rally doesn't endear us to you. 

Veronica continues to be awesome, even if the dark Mean Girl side is in her.  But, she doesn't like that Mean Girl side and wants to be rid of it.  So, for this, she's this show's strongest asset.

Betty's mom's comment about the Blossoms having a cult or something like that makes me think that the Blossoms have Sabrina and her aunts locked in their basement and force them to use their witch powers for their own interests.  But, magic and the weird don't seem to exist in this world, so it's wishful thinking on my part.  I'd think it would be cool, though.

There he is!  There's the motherfucker Reggie from the comics everyone knows and loathes.  Poor Moose.  He just sat there and took it.  I do hope he and Kevin end up together.

Archie fucking Ms. Grundy remains this show's squickiest thing.  He did look nice in that football uniform, though.

Still, waiting Josie and The Pussycat's space pet Bleep to show up...on meth.  Instead, we got a shit version of the Sugar, Sugar song.

Still also wondering when Ethel will show up.  Knowing this show, she'll be supermodel gorgeous but everyone will regard her as some gawkish beanpole.

[Sakura12]

I did like the Easter Egg of the Pussycats covering "Sugar, Sugar" but wow was that a terrible cheer leading performance. With all her talk, Cheryl sucks as a Captain. My high school only had 6 cheer leaders they would put on a better performance than that. (cheerleading was not a big thing at my school). 

I don't get what all the drama was about hearing a gun shot. That really would not help the cops that much to cause that much guilt for Archie. Also Archie's really dumb if he believes everything Miss Grundy said to him about being expelled and going to jail. Only she would go to jail being she's a statuary rapist. 

[Dee]

Gotta give the recapper props for Mary Kay LeCello! Hilarious!

Edited February 3, 2017 by Dee

[Last Time Lord]

Okay, show, I get it! Archie has abs!

I'm finding Jughead to be the one of the more compelling characters on this show, but that may be because so far, he's had the least amount of focus.

7 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I did like the Easter Egg of the Pussycats covering "Sugar, Sugar"

Care to elaborate for someone unfamiliar with the comics?

[SeanC]

Just now, Last Time Lord said:

Care to elaborate for someone unfamiliar with the comics?

"Sugar, Sugar" was a novelty single created by The Archies, a band created by Archie Comics starring the characters.

[Last Time Lord]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

"Sugar, Sugar" was a novelty single created by The Archies, a band created by Archie Comics starring the characters.

Ah. That's pretty neat.

[Dee]

Kevin referring to himself as a pre-accident Montgomery Clift was great. 

[memememe76]

I am liking the show a lot. Plot didn't move forward but I felt they did a good job of giving the characters more dimension. And Archie in his underwear? Yes!

That chemistry class scene showed a, uhm, chemistry amongst the cast. Good timing there with the quick rapid dialogue. Seeing Jughead, Betty, Veronica and Archie together made me feel good. 

[Lady Calypso]

This show really has no life to it. The cinematography doesn't help matters, but everyone seems really bland except for Veronica. That cheerleading performance has to be the tamest TV cheerleading performance I've ever seen.  That being said, I'm still kind of all in for the show. The character moments have so much potential and they've hit some good moments. 

Ok, so this Archie/Miss Grundy romance is really disturbing and I'm all on Jughead's side for calling Miss Grundy out on her selfishness. Archie's a kid; a stupid kid, mind you, but still a kid. Both seem to know how wrong their relationship is but Miss Grundy is so in the wrong for leading him on. Sure, just hearing a gunshot isn't quite enough to go on, but the poor guy just wants to confess and he almost had his own teacher tell him not to. Thank god he came to his senses. 

Also, weirdest moment of the episode was Archie not bothering to get dressed as he ran to Miss Grundy's place half naked. No teenager would do that; at the very least, he would have put on pants. 

This show has a multitude of issues, but their female friendships are actually done alright. Sure, they're still riddled in the typical cliches, but I totally buy Veronica choosing Betty over Archie. I was totally reminded of a guilty boyfriend trying to win their girlfriend back with flowers, food, and other gifts. I also liked Veronica/Archie's conversation. Sure, I think they're still trying to sell the Veronica/Archie inevitable romance, but I love that their conversation was solely about Betty. I also like how Veronica comforted Cheryl in her moment of need. 

I love the dimensions they're giving Betty as well. I love how she tried to be best friends with Archie but knew that she needed more time. Betty's fast becoming my favourite character. Plus, the way she stood up to Cheryl was great. 

As for the other characters, I'm not entranced with them yet. Kevin's hitting too many stereotypical gay cliches so I need more depth with him. Moose is alright so far, and Reggie's pretty awful. 

I did like the ending with the main four. As for the Cheryl ending, I assume it's twincest and they possibly found her DNA on him. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Archie is still a dud. Betty and Veronica ditch him already and get together.

Also this show is incredibly quick on the draw, isn't it? I figured the Cheryl is a scheming bitch to Betty for a couple more episodes. She is no Blair Waldorf is she?

[MarkHB]

I did notice another teen show alum in the cast tonight: Mayor McCoy, aka Josie's mom, was played by Robin Givens.

[Aymery]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ok, so this Archie/Miss Grundy romance is really disturbing and I'm all on Jughead's side for calling Miss Grundy out on her selfishness. Archie's a kid; a stupid kid, mind you, but still a kid. Both seem to know how wrong their relationship is but Miss Grundy is so in the wrong for leading him on. Sure, just hearing a gunshot isn't quite enough to go on, but the poor guy just wants to confess and he almost had his own teacher tell him not to. Thank god he came to his senses. 

Also, weirdest moment of the episode was Archie not bothering to get dressed as he ran to Miss Grundy's place half naked. No teenager would do that; at the very least, he would have put on pants. 

As for the other characters, I'm not entranced with them yet. Kevin's hitting too many stereotypical gay cliches so I need more depth with him. Moose is alright so far, and Reggie's pretty awful. 

I really hope they develop the Archie character more. Yes he's torn between music and football, being staturily raped and emotionally manipulated by a teacher twice his age when he wants to do the right thing but he just isn't compelling. I can't help thinking making Archie the bicurious jock instead of Moose would have had the dual benefit of making his character interesting and breathing new life into the old TV trope. Of course America isn't ready for a bisexual male lead - unlike bi females whose sex appeal is undeniable - and I doubt it would fly with the CW. If Archie had been bi we would never get all these scenes where he's viewed through a sexual lens. Look at how chaste and offscreen Kevin and Moose's relationship is - not even a kiss! 

Btw, Archie did pull on some jogging shorts to head to Miss Grundy's house; prior to that he wore a pretty small pair of undies. Personally I would have needed resucitation if he hadn't bothered with the shorts!

[In2You]

This episode was boring and the dialogue is atrocious! And the acting was cringe worthy too. And despite all the characters having names from the comics I've not getting Archie vibes from this show. And it's trying to hard to be edgy but just comes across as dated with all the Tumbleresque rhetoric being spouted.

And that version of Sugar Sugar was terrible.  

[Bobbin]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I enjoyed the bit of "Sugar Sugar" that they played but have to admit that when I heard it on the radio back when it was "on the charts" by The Archies, I had no idea that those Archies were in anyway associated with the Archie comic books I read a few years earlier. 

"The Archies" was a studio band that did the soundrack for the Archie animated series. It was kind of a fluke that "Sugar, Sugar" from one of the eps actually charted.

At the beginning of this ep, did I hear Miss Grundy tell Archie that if they were ever found out that they would BOTH go to jail? He's the innocent minor victim. Cheap trick to keep him in line, Teach. All of which is a lesson in why students shouldn't have affairs with adults. I hope Archie fares better than Karen Black's student lovers in "Trilogy of Terror.

[Minneapple]

I hate when they play these student/teacher relationships like "it's so wrong but we have so much (fake) chemistry so it must be right." It didn't work with Aria/Ezra on PLL and it doesn't work now. It just comes off as creepy. You had sex with a 15-year-old boy, lady. "We're" not going to jail, YOU are. 

Pretty much everyone not named Archie and Ms. Grundy work for me. I like Betty, Veronica, Jughead, Kevin, Cheryl. I don't know if it's the actor or the writing, but Archie comes off as such a drip. He's not good enough for Betty or Veronica. Actually now that I come to think of it maybe he and Ms. Grundy deserve each other.

[Temperance]

For me, I really like the show and the lighter moments of the episode.  

Mainly I like the kids. Archie, Jughead, Betty and Veronica.  Cheryl is twisted but it's entertaining.

The adults I don't really like as much. I wish Miss Grundy was a old lady and the young teacher named something else. All the adults except Miss Grundy were fatter in the comics.  

I like the nods to comics. I also adored "Sugar, Sugar", which I haven't before. I had thought they were abandoning it and was surprised when it came back. 

[WhosThatGirl]

16 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I hate when they play these student/teacher relationships like "it's so wrong but we have so much (fake) chemistry so it must be right." It didn't work with Aria/Ezra on PLL and it doesn't work now. It just comes off as creepy. You had sex with a 15-year-old boy, lady. "We're" not going to jail, YOU are. 

Pretty much everyone not named Archie and Ms. Grundy work for me. I like Betty, Veronica, Jughead, Kevin, Cheryl. I don't know if it's the actor or the writing, but Archie comes off as such a drip. He's not good enough for Betty or Veronica. Actually now that I come to think of it maybe he and Ms. Grundy deserve each other.

I'm with everyone else who are totally WTF with Ms. Grundy. I dislike the Archie character but he's 16 years old! But also.. Archie has to be more than aware he's not going to get in trouble for the affair right? Or maybe he really is that dumb. I guess we're supposed to believe he's just a sweet little naive boy or something. I don't know.

[Dee]

I loathe the Sprouse twins, but incorporating Jughead further into Archie's orbit makes him more tolerable.

KA is stiff but he exhibits quick flashes of a personality, opposite his ex-BFF, that make me believe he isn't a lost hope.

The Miss Grundy stuff is intolerable. It doesn't help that the actress is quite bland and the romanticization of rape is ultra squicky.

Josie & the girls 'Sugar Sugar' cover was cute, but I hope they get more to do than be Riverdale's answer to the Little Shop Of Horrors trio.

Reggie is a cutie. A total jerk, but still, definitely a cutie.

[allonsyalice]

The best part of this episode was that the back of Cheryls gym uniform read HBIC, which i found amazing and hilarious. 

[loki567]

9 hours ago, ihavenoidea said:

Ok I'm repeating myself from last week, but this entire show would be better with no Archie at all.

A Riverdale series that started with Archie's death would have been a HELLUVA more interesting. 

The Betty/Veronica relationship and their actresses are way better than anything else on this show. They really should be the central hook. 

[AzureOwl]

8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't get what all the drama was about hearing a gun shot. That really would not help the cops that much to cause that much guilt for Archie. 

Knowing when Jason was shot, down to the minute, would've been very helpful for the police in the investigation, especially when establishing every suspect's whereabouts.

Even after the revelation at the end of the episode, knowing that someone was running around the river shooting at someone could be instrumental in finding out who took Jason. 

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ok, so this Archie/Miss Grundy romance is really disturbing and I'm all on Jughead's side for calling Miss Grundy out on her selfishness. Archie's a kid; a stupid kid, mind you, but still a kid. Both seem to know how wrong their relationship is but Miss Grundy is so in the wrong for leading him on. Sure, just hearing a gunshot isn't quite enough to go on, but the poor guy just wants to confess and he almost had his own teacher tell him not to. Thank god he came to his senses. 

5 hours ago, Minneapple said:

I hate when they play these student/teacher relationships like "it's so wrong but we have so much (fake) chemistry so it must be right." It didn't work with Aria/Ezra on PLL and it doesn't work now. It just comes off as creepy. You had sex with a 15-year-old boy, lady. "We're" not going to jail, YOU are. 

The thing is, I don't think that the show is trying to portray the relationship in a positive light. 

They're showing it pretty much for what it is... a horny teenage boy letting his little Archie do all the thinking for him and an attractive older woman using sex, lies and emotional guilt to manipulate him into doing what she wants.   

[starri]

My takeaway from the episode is that the actress playing Cheryl is amazing.  I haven't been able to shake being reminded of Teen Wolf's Holland Roden, but Madelaine Petsch is a much better actress.  

I'm glad they decided to make Ronnie someone to root for, because it would have been really easy to Mean Girl her, at least given that this is more Pretty Little Liars than anything else.    Like everyone else, I think she and Betty are better off without Archiekins.  Maybe they can unearth Syed, Betty's love interest form the new comics.

Why was Melody the only Pussycat wearing the ears?  Have she and Valerie even had lines yet?

The other thing that strikes me is how much so many of the actors remind me of other actors.  I actually thought Hermione was played by Eva Longoria at first.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I'm liking the show, but I'm going to have to dissent from popular opinion on the Betty/Veronica relationship and the whole "we're not going to let a boy come between us"  schtick.  I'm not sure how much time is suppose to have lapsed since the pilot, but I'm guessing not much.  These girls have known each other for a few days at most, and in that time, a boy did actually come between them.  This whole unbreakable bond business seems a little too much to me.  It makes Veronica (who I actually thing is the best actress on the show) come off a little stalker-ish. 

Agreed. I find the "but we're still besties" forced nature of the friendship really off putting considering the nature of what Veronica did. I mean, she's just met Betty, Betty likes Archie, and Veronica immediately goes after Archie. And then has cupcakes from NYC especially flown in and flowers sent to the school to apologize?

I'm also finding a weird dissonance between how innocent everyone is acting and how worldly everyone is. Forgive me but I actually think in a small town, that a local high school football player being caught out with the town open homosexual just might be more than a mild titter point. And since Archie is a child of 2017... I find it really hard to believe he's such a dumbass he has no idea that he can't be arrested for being raped (he was 15, she was what, 24?) Also, considering how openly incestuous Cheryl was with her brother, all the wide eyes of shock at the idea she might have killed him seems overly forced. I mean really, its 2017, do they not get ID Discovery? Cheryl was the last one seen with him, she said he drowned and now his body has turned up with a bullet hole. Guess who SHOULD be suspect number one?

[abhi]

I think people are being hard on the Archie character. The storyline with the teacher is clearly dragging the character down. Besides, his storyline with other characters hasn't really been explored enough. In this episode, his interaction with Jughead helped bring the character to life. Archie needs deeper character interactions and right now he's being boxed in this story with Grundy which is a gross story line anyways and a major slip by the producers. Hopefully, as the seasons progresses the character will be more fleshed out. Its clear that the producers are fleshing out the characters of Betty and Veronica at the beginning of the season with their mysterious pasts, unpredictable personalities and issues and friendships. I expect that as the season progresses, the Archie character will come into its own.

It actually reminds me of the character "Major" on Izombie who started out as a "bland" character on Izombie but by the end of the season had become the favorite character for a substantial portion of the fandom along with being the one to get  the most character development in the first season.

[maxineofarc]

Jughead always was my favorite, and Broody Jughead Under The Bleachers is my extra favorite because that was always the kid I wanted to be in high school.

Could they please give Kevin a personality trait other than "gay?" That's not actually a personality.

[peachmangosteen]

I'm in on this show if only for Betty and Jughead. I already really like those two a lot. I like Veronica and Cheryl, too.  And I love the Betty/Veronica relationship. I don't much give a shit about the other characters though.

I appreciate that imo they are clearly showing Miss Grundy to be a manipulative, bad person. I don't get the vibe at all that we're supposed to be shipping her and Archie like with Aria/Ezra on PLL. I hope they keep that up. I hope there aren't a bunch of Archie/Miss Grundy shippers out there because if there are I could see the show giving in to them and doing Archie/Miss Grundy for real.

[Danny Franks]

So what I'm getting is, Veronica wants Betty and Jughead wants Archie. Obviously, that's not the direction the show is going in, but I wish it would. It'd be a lot less painful for all involved.

The rest of it is still as loopy as in the first episode. First off, the guy playing Jughead is not a good enough actor to be narrating this. The dialogue is bad enough without his laboured reciting of it. And they really should have given him a real person name, if they want people to take him seriously as a brooding, artistic type, or as the amateur sleuth. He needs to lose the goofy, ten year old's hat as well. I don't care if the comic book version wears it.

Betty's mother is clearly a narcissist, inflicting emotional damage on her daughters just to make herself feel better. Poor girl. She's already my favourite character, and I want nothing but wins for her. And honestly, I still can't understand how Archie wouldn't be interested in her. She's stunning, and seems like a lovely, intelligent, warm person as well. And she's got more backbone than it first appeared.

I guess her and Veronica are going to be the best part of this show, because the guys still aren't bringing anything interesting to the table. And I guess they went for looks ahead of acting or singing talent for the kid playing Archie.

The murder mystery is just boring and weird. None of the characters are reacting to it like real people, and there seem to be no real stakes to it. Just reinforcing the fever dream vibe that the pilot episode gave me. They seem to be going for a 'still waters run deep' motif with the whole town, but it's just coming across as surreal.

[AzureOwl]

5 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

So what I'm getting is, Veronica wants Betty and Jughead wants Archie. Obviously, that's not the direction the show is going in, but I wish it would. It'd be a lot less painful for all involved.

I don't know. That line from Jughead's narration about how even though the 4 of them were in the booth, there were only really 3, might be a hint that they might actually go there and solve the perennial love triangle with a polyamorous relationship between Archie, Betty and Veronica. 

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I'm with everyone else who are totally WTF with Ms. Grundy. I dislike the Archie character but he's 16 years old! But also.. Archie has to be more than aware he's not going to get in trouble for the affair right? Or maybe he really is that dumb. I guess we're supposed to believe he's just a sweet little naive boy or something. I don't know.

I think he's getting too easily manipulated by Miss Grundy so it's possible that he believes that he'd get in trouble. She's been basically telling him as much this entire time. I do think part of Archie does feel guilty for having these feelings for an older woman. Even by the end of the episode, he's still trying to protect her. I do get the feeling that we're not supposed to trust Grundy, though, which is a nice change. I don't think we're supposed to be buying into this romance. They aren't actually making it romantic, so that's nice. 

I will also agree that Archie, with Jughead, actually showed some more personality. I still have hope for him. I kind of have to though, since he's the main character.

[Danny Franks]

Just now, AzureOwl said:

I don't know. That line from Jughead's narration about how even though the 4 of them were in the booth, there were only really 3, might be a hint that they might actually go there and solve the perennial love triangle with a polyamorous relationship between Archie, Betty and Veronica. 

Hey, if they can make that work, then I would be all for it. I don't think any TV show has ever solved a love triangle like that before. The only example of successful polyamorous relationships I can think of are from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.

To me though, that line felt more like Jughead just being a pretentious observer of humanity, rather than a participant. 'I wasn't there, I'm just telling you the story'. Like Abed in Community's documentary episodes.

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

I will also agree that Archie, with Jughead, actually showed some more personality. 

Archie really comes alive in his scenes with Jughead. Which is why I, like @Danny Franks, wish they'd just do Archie/Jughead and Betty/Veronica tbh.

I'd be ok if they went polymorphous with Archie/Betty/Veronica, but Archie just doesn't really have chem with either of them imo.

[maxineofarc]

14 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

So what I'm getting is, Veronica wants Betty and Jughead wants Archie. Obviously, that's not the direction the show is going in, but I wish it would. It'd be a lot less painful for all involved.

 the characters are reacting to it like real people, and there seem to be no real stakes to it. Just reinforcing the fever dream vibe that the pilot episode gave me. They seem to be going for a 'still waters run deep' motif with the whole town, but it's just coming across as surreal.

That's what's working about it for me. I think it's pretty successful at getting the Twin Peaks vibe across. As for Jughead, I actually like the update to his hat- back in the middle ages when the comic first came out, it was a beanie made out of an old fedora or similar, which was The Style At The Time, but over time as that fad died out it's come to look totally weird. The knitted beanie works for me. I'd like to hear more about Archie and Jughead's friendship up until now, since I have no idea how long they've been friends; Archie does have more chemistry with Jug than with Betty, his supposed lifelong best friend.

In the comics, Archie's always been openly dating both Betty and Veronica, and B and V have always been best friends, so I suppose that is an example of a mostly successful polyamorous relationship- though an extremely chaste one because Archie comics. On the CW where they're allowed to have sex, who knows if it would work, but it might!

Edited February 3, 2017 by maxineofarc

[Chaos Theory]

I am not really in to this show. However if Betty and Veronica just screw it all and run off together OR Betty is a psychopath I might change my mind.

Let me know if either thing happens.

[HunterHunted]

12 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I did like the Easter Egg of the Pussycats covering "Sugar, Sugar" but wow was that a terrible cheer leading performance. With all her talk, Cheryl sucks as a Captain. My high school only had 6 cheer leaders they would put on a better performance than that. (cheerleading was not a big thing at my school). 

I don't get what all the drama was about hearing a gun shot. That really would not help the cops that much to cause that much guilt for Archie. Also Archie's really dumb if he believes everything Miss Grundy said to him about being expelled and going to jail. Only she would go to jail being she's a statuary rapist. 

Their version of Sugar Sugar was good, but it really sounded as if it was written from a male perspective although I guess it could have been written by a Pussycat who was also into women too.

I'm surprised that it took so long for the sheriff to talk to Cheryl. She gave him the impression that Jason might have drowned. He now knows that Jason was shot. The first thing you would do is reinterview Cheryl, the last person to see the victim. I think it's a mistake to make the sheriff and the Blossom parents silent impassive ciphers. You need to get some sense that there is movement in the case and an understanding of how messed up the Blossoms are to make speculations that they might have killed Jason plausible. I'll liken this to Veronica Mars. Even if we didn't get a lot from all of the adults, we got something. It helped create a more richly textured characters and universe. By the end of season one, you understand why Logan is so messed up.

The time of the gun shot is important because you can check traffic or highway cameras in the vicinity to figure out your potential perpetrators. It would help the sheriff know who has an alibi for that time.

Poor dumb Archie is too young and smitten to check to see if what Miss Grundy says is true. Oh Archie. You're stupid hot and just stupid. Google Archie. Google it. Or better yet, ask Jughead to google it for you. Archie is much better with Jughead.

Veronica is amazing. Betty and Veronica are great together.

I want Moose to be like Kevin from Looking, a jerk who can't stay away from the object of his interest, but can't end his other relationship either. It would also help Kevin's characterization, who is stuck on stereotypical gay teen.

[callie lee 29]

Ehh, count me with the ones liking it. This week is a marked improvement over last week and I like the pace (thus far). I do agree that was a sad little sheer routine, though I really like the version of "Sugar, Sugar"

I also really like Archie (which is funny because he irritates me in the comics). I think he's got chemistry with both actresses.

I also don't mind Grundy being aged down. If you take out the stator rape (which is completely asinine), her being younger doesn't really matter that much. Sleeping with a teenager? Now that's a big, effing deal. Chick needs to go to jail.

[Jenniferbug]

Maybe I missed something but- Jason and Cheryl went out the morning of the 4th of July, right? That's the morning Archie and Grundy heard the gunshot, and Jason supposedly drowned. But didn't they say at the end of the episode that Jason didn't die (via gunshot) till a week after the 4th? So Archie hearing the gunshot wouldn't matter as much, if Jason wasn't shot till a week later. I mean, it's still relevant in case Jason was abducted at gunpoint or something, but it doesn't sound like they heard the shot that killed Jason. Or do I have the time line confused? 

[shapeshifter]

You're correct, @Jenniferbug. I was wondering when someone was going to post about that.

[Temperance]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The murder mystery is just boring and weird. None of the characters are reacting to it like real people, and there seem to be no real stakes to it. Just reinforcing the fever dream vibe that the pilot episode gave me. They seem to be going for a 'still waters run deep' motif with the whole town, but it's just coming across as surreal.

What's interesting is that this based off a comic strip? I know the superhero shows/movies try to make their characters more real or human, but maybe it's ok they come as cartoon. I've seen the original tv Batman in reruns and I like that.

I think Archie is supposed to come off chivalrous, loyal, and noble trying to protect Grundy. Again I hate that they used Miss Grundy's name to this character who has nothing to do with the comic strip version.

I wish one of the adults was less sexualized and someone who the teens could turn to. 

It seems like all the parents are single. In the comic strips, they all had married parents. Nothing against single parents, but I don't need a love triangle between Fred Andrews, Veronica's mom, and Betty's mom (no idea if this will happen, just speculating). That dynamic works better among teenagers. 

Also Sugar, Sugar the original seemed sort of corny to me and I thought it was modernized well.  The song had a Katy Perry?  (or do I mean someone else?) vibe to it.

[Sakura12]

I think Betty's has both parents. They showed her dad when they had that weird scene of them telling Betty that they were going to have late nights. 

[SimoneS]

I was hoping for some improvement in this second episode, but I didn't think there was much. Veronica still rules, but the rest of the show pales in comparison. I think Archie is fine and don't get the complaints about him. He isn't much different from the most of the boring mediocre white hetero male leads that populate CW and CBS shows. 

The show reminds me so much of the comic when I used to read it back in the day, dated and stale. I am surprised that the ratings are so low it seems right in line with the other CW offerings.