S01.E13: Three Sentences

[bybrandy]

24 minutes ago, DayGlorious said:

and at what point (and why) the entire show just up and moved from Pittsburgh to the NY area. 

Randall's a comodoties trader in a New York firm so they bought in New Jersey.  Rebecca and her husband could well have moved to be closer to the grandchildren.  Kev needs to be in New York for his big Broadway dreams.  He isn't good with being alone so he hangs in NJ with Randall and Randall's fam.   

 

[TobinAlbers]

So Kevin 'going big' for Sophie began at his 10th birthday party, eh?  I liked the way the show slickly pushed Kevin out of his love triangle into a whole new storyline and revealed a new facet of his character -that he had married and divorced his childhood sweetheart and was still in love with her and now in addition to his journey towards a 'real' artist he has another journey of winning back his first love or finally getting real closure as he continues to mature and grow and evolve.

Rebecca's dumbstruck look of Kevin revealing he loves Sophie was one part disbelief that her son did this all for a girl and the gut punch that her baby boy was in love with a another girl that wasn't her. Jack's reaction was sweet as well. One part 'Ohhhhhhhhhh, of course' and one part 'Awwwwww, my boy's in loooooove!'

Kate's anguished wail as her anger and pain broke through during her class? Gut wrenching. But I do give props to the instructor not missing a beat when he asked her if she was okay. The man kept pounding.

So many feels about the reveal of Jack's death this episode. The juxtaposition of that against the end of the scene with Jack and young Kate when he's trying to cheer her up and she tells him she just wants to be alone? You just KNOW that she wishes that she could take that dismissal and probably other similar moments of her sending him away back. Poor thing had no clue that she'd lose him in just five/six short years and took for granted (like many young kids do) that he'd always be there. 

Milo was ah-maz-ing in that scene of Jack voging with young Kate.  A perfect capture of a father who loves his daughter deeply and who is determined to lift her up every way he knows how. The man who wins Kate's heart has Jack Pearson to measure up to and that is no easy task.

If Milo isn't nominated for an Emmy come fall there is no justice. I've always found him fun to watch on Gilmore Girls and Heroes and he did his damned best on ABC's The Whispers, but he's revealed a whole new level of himself as an actor in this role. As someone said in HALF a season he's pretty much cracked the top ten of TV dads if not the top five. Sure, we could be primed for a fall and get a more 'realistic' exploration of Jack in the future, but that doesn't take away from Milo's performance this season. Dude has been nailing it.

I actually said aloud. "Back it up, horse boy,' when that guy was making his initial eyes at Kate. I don't hate Toby but I ain't married to him and Kate either so I'm open for her being appreciated by other men. But yeesh, was this guy just way too everything. Kate and Toby may have rushed their engagement but this guy is not the way for them to realize that with Kate possibly attracted to him.

[DayGlorious]

3 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Randall's a comodoties trader in a New York firm so they bought in New Jersey.  Rebecca and her husband could well have moved to be closer to the grandchildren.  Kev needs to be in New York for his big Broadway dreams.  He isn't good with being alone so he hangs in NJ with Randall and Randall's fam.   

 

Thanks for pointing out the obvious in regards to Randall. That doesn't really explain Miguel and Rebecca, or Rebecca's parents (who were local enough for Jack and Rebecca's hypothetical move into their house to not involve quitting his job), or Sophie (no 21/22-year-old who isn't named Hilton, Trump, etc. could afford a house like that in NYC then OR now), or Kevin (whose "big Broadway dreams" are recent and mandated by his career implosion and TV contract, and who just moved to NY, though it's possible he and Sophie lived there together before). Even taking Pittsburgh's economic struggles into account, it's implausible for none of those characters to have stayed behind. 

39 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm definitely curious what the intended direction for this character is.  If it's meant to help propel Kate towards some sort of inner discovery, fine.  Other than that, his behavior was far too offputting for me to ever accept him as any romantic interest for her.

No amount of "inner discovery" can ever make that guy's rapey-ness and seduction-community handbook behavior OK as far as I'm concerned. 

[elle]

1 hour ago, picsistic said:

My one nitpick that I don't think has been addressed yet.  IF Kevin had not seen Sophie in 12 years, how did she have his phone number?  I guess it's possible he could have the same number as 12 years ago, but seems unlikely.  Did they ever show him giving her his number?  I just found it odd that she texted him about two minutes after he left and right away I thought, "Did he give her his number and I missed it?"

That stood out to me as well, especially since I was waiting for Kevin to hand Sophie a card saying here's how to get in touch with me. (which did not happen)

3 minutes ago, DayGlorious said:

No amount of "inner discovery" can ever make that guy's rapey-ness and seduction-community handbook behavior OK as far as I'm concerned. 

Well put!  I found myself wondering on how many other campers he may used these same lines.

[DoubleUTeeEff]

59 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I'm definitely curious what the intended direction for this character is.  If it's meant to help propel Kate towards some sort of inner discovery, fine.  Other than that, his behavior was far too offputting for me to ever accept him as any romantic interest for her.

Seriously.  We have to wait and see but I hope he isn't meant to be an actual romantic partner for Kate in any capacity.  Considering the previews, I'm wondering if Horse Guy's interest in Kate is supposed to be some kind of obstacle or issue in Kate and Toby's relationship.

Edited January 25, 2017 by DoubleUTeeEff
ETA: I just realized Horse Guy was "negging" Kate. He first told her that her voice was annoying his horses. An insult followed by a compliment when he told her that she was sexy? pretty? I don't remember exactly.

[AriAu]

On a completely different track, we know Jack dies and we have no idea when or how. So, why did we have to hear Kevin as Inigo Montoya keep saying "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya....you killed my FATHER, prepare to die". Foreshadowing (or what ever we call it in the jumping all over the place format of this show) or just one of the great lines in movie history. Did someone have something to do with Jack's death..., no., INCONCEIVABLE! At least Kevin did not run around saying "As you wish"......although that would have been the perfect response to Sophie's text....since it is  True Love...and its not like that happens everyday.

The stable boy was clearly more Rodent of Unusual Size than Wesley?

Ok, I'll stop now.....and go watch it for the millionth time.

[Emily Thrace]

51 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Randall's a comodoties trader in a New York firm so they bought in New Jersey.  Rebecca and her husband could well have moved to be closer to the grandchildren.  Kev needs to be in New York for his big Broadway dreams.  He isn't good with being alone so he hangs in NJ with Randall and Randall's fam.  
 

Actually Rebecca and Miguel still live in the house the kids grew up in. Randall mentioned it to William ages ago. Sophie I could see being in New York because of the scrubs. Based on her address I would suspect shes a doctor and New York is a major city for medicine.  It also might explain her divorce from Kevin. If he wanted to be in LA for work and she got into a New York based medical program.

[nkotb]

I have to admit, I'm not a Toby fan. To me, he's not himself ever, he's just always "on". Kevin is by far my least favorite of the big 3, too, although, I really like & feel for young Kevin, because I do think Kate had Jack, Randall had Rebecca, & Kevin was on his own a lot (just saying, the parents had their obvious favorites). However, I'd watch an hour of "The Toby & Kevin Show" again. Gold. Little back-pat, I did call that Sophie was the love of Kevin's life, I just had a hunch. I told my husband that neither girl in the triangle was the love of his life, because if she was, he wouldn't have been in a triangle with both of them to begin with. When she opened the door, & I saw it wasn't Sloane, I groaned for just a moment, thinking it was British Bitch (Olivia? can't remember). That was a relief. I like this Kevin, but who hasn't seen "Notting Hill"??

This show just does something to me every week. This week, I kept thinking that Kate is probably not going to end up with either of these guys, because if it's like real-life, typically, Daddy's girls go for guys like their Dad, & neither of these goobers are in the #HotDaddyJack stratosphere. That got me, because my daughter is a total Daddy's girl, so she's going to have to get an amazing guy, because her Daddy is pretty special, & he's crazy in love with her...& now I'm crying at my desk. 

[Dreamboat Annie]

Quote

jack is way too much of a gary stu, it annoying rather then endearing his perfection, also that horse guy sucks, wouldn't surprise me if he does something with the horses on the side

That last part made me laugh!!  It conjures up in my mind new meanings for old horse, barn and hay terms which I won't share*.

I have a strong feeling, since no one is perfect, that we will be shown soon that St. Jack is human after all.  Whatever it is though, I won't have a problem with it.  I love the character (what an amazing Dad and so far, husband) and I still want, no, need, Present Jack.  Once all is said and done, I am wondering if I will even care how the Present Characters are working through their respective issues, even though we will still see Past Jack. 

Much was revealed this episode - I don't know if we knew before that the birthday was August 31 (probably doesn't matter but may have some significance later), Kevin had an early short marriage to Kate's "friend" (I love Kevin and cannot figure out why I really don't care about this**), the funeral photo of Jack shows he's older than we have seen, no more babies, maybe - I don't see this as closed despite their older ages - a miscarriage perhaps?  I wouldn't put it past this show to do that to us! 

I too thought it was kind of odd that Kevin was so easily in touch with Sophie but then if she and Kate are indeed still friends, then it would make sense.

*   You're welcome.

**  But still glad it wasn't Sloane (didn't see the chemistry between her and Kevin) or Olivia (just because I couldn't stand her).

Edited January 25, 2017 by Dreamboat Annie

[J0nas3]

7 hours ago, taragel said:

Also....what was the last thing that Kevin recited to Sophie about her being like his arm? Why did he spell out all the punctuation? That made no sense to me. He is so incredibly awkward for a dude who looks like that. Lol.

When Kevin first started talking to Sophie, he said he had 3 sentences only to say to her. He went into punctuation to stretch out that 3rd sentence.

[Ms Blue Jay]

A lot of people were bothered by Horse Whisperer (TM @Tikichick I think, which was hilarious.)  It's funny because it made me think.  Why am I so bothered by Toby, but not at all bothered by Horse Whisperer; instead I was laughing at his antics?

I assume he works the stable, there?  I honestly didn't know that for certain.  I thought he was another 'patient'/campgoer like Kate.  If you guys are correct and he works for the camp then yes it is harassment of a vulnerable camp-goer isn't it.  My conclusion was, maybe Horse Whisperer doesn't bother me because he's just talking shit that you can laugh off or walk away from, (and it was hilarious and ridiculous to me), whereas Toby officially crosses boundaries that are set and he makes me uncomfortable, and also aside from that, I find him super annoying.

To each his/her own but I found it very interesting to analyze.  (Once, a close friend and I went speed-dating together, and I found it HYSTERICAL that I was creeped out by the guys that she was attracted to, and exactly vice versa.  It spelled out a lot about what I'm attracted to versus what puts up my 'red flags'.)

I did really like one poster's observation that if Horse Whisperer looked like Kevin, some women would probably be swooning at his actions rather than find him creepy.  That's interesting too.  Makes one think.  Anyway!

Edited January 25, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[memememe76]

I liked how Young Kevin was reenacting scenes from The Princess Bride. Already a budding actor. It makes sense that Kevin loved seeing everyone follow him around at his party, while both Randall and Kate are left out. I guess he figures they get enough attention from the parents. 

[Duke2801]

Good episode.  And, despite the funeral scenes, it didn't leave me bawling like last week (Dr. K dealing with the loss of his wife really did me in).  Loved the Princess Bride references, William learning to drive, and learning that Kevin has layers.  Grateful that Toby was tolerable (even likeable) with Kevin and that Kevin did NOT declare his undying love to Olivia.  I might have had to quit the show if that happened (ok, that's a lie - but still, I would have been mad!)  

Kate annoys me sometimes, but I was really feeling her pain/rage/sadness during the drumming exercise. I thought that scene was very well done. As far as her romantic option, yeah, I'll admit part of me is hoping that she doesn't choose Toby OR handsome asshole horse guy.  Maybe she'll pull a Kelly Taylor "I choose me."

7 hours ago, Mldh598 said:

More twists, as usual. For some reason I thought it was Olivia when she first opened the door, and I was not happy. Did not see the ex wife coming!

In a past episode, Kate refers to watching the 2006 Superbowl with her Dad. If they were 10 in 1989 (as we saw tonight), and at the funeral they looked to be maybe late teens, that may not make sense. Or maybe it will later on somehow. LOL

I am NOT looking forward to the Kate-Toby-Horse Guy triangle. I'm not feeling that at all - too soon for this to happen in their relationship. 

This is my favorite hour of the week - this show is wonderful! I'm not sure how the writers keep it all together. Talk about a super complex storyline!

That was definitely Urn Jack watching the 2006 SB with Kate. 

12 hours ago, NutMeg said:

The scene of birthday Kate with her dad made me lose it - too close to my relationship with my dad (we were both very social introverts, and while my mom made me feel I was an alien he always made me feel he got it, he got me). My dad passed away 10 years years ago, so while I cried and cried, it wasn't for Kate, Jack, or any fictional character, it was because this crazy show reminded me of this very, very precious bond we had and which has proven very unique. I know it's weird to feel emotionally overwhelmed watching a TV show, I know... 

No, definitely not!  See above.  The scenes of Dr. K cleaning out his wife's closet and vanity hit way to close to home remembering my dad dealing with things after my mom passed away. 

4 hours ago, Sgt Pepper said:

Vogue was still out of place, because the bday party was in 1989.  I looked it up too!  

Loved the Kevin twist.  I was so afraid he would pick Olivia. 

Birthday party was in 1990; same year Vogue was released.

3 hours ago, DayGlorious said:

Even as a nit-picking stickler for all things 1980s and someone who never cared much for Madonna, I'm not sure why everyone is making a big deal about the period costuming at Kate's party. First of all, "Like a Virgin" Madonna = "Jailhouse Rock" Elvis = mop-top Beatles = "Thriller" era MJ. It's far from her only defining look, but it's her most memorable one, and she is iconic and inspirational enough that even in 1990, it was far from passé. Secondly, as others have stated, these are kids. Their costuming abilities are limited to what their parents are willing or able to do for them. It's a lot easier to throw together an old skirt from a big sister's closet and a cheap pair of lace gloves from Claire's than to fabricate a cone bra, and it's a LOT more age-appropriate.

Thank you for this!  I am a child of the 80s and yeah, they don't nail every single detail about the time period.  But who cares?  Not to mention, when people dress up as Madonna nowadays for 80s theme parties, 9 out of 10 of them ARE wearing her mid-80s look with the lace glove, etc.  And she certainly doesn't dress like that today!

3 hours ago, Trillian said:

Now I'm really confused - I hadn't picked up on the timing.  Doesn't school start after Labour Day?  Or is that only in the land where we spell it labour and not labor :)?  Why would they be handing invitations at the school at all in August?

Everywhere is different.  But I grew up in the Pittsburgh area and we often went back to school before Labor Day.

1 hour ago, picsistic said:

My one nitpick that I don't think has been addressed yet.  IF Kevin had not seen Sophie in 12 years, how did she have his phone number?  I guess it's possible he could have the same number as 12 years ago, but seems unlikely.  Did they ever show him giving her his number?  I just found it odd that she texted him about two minutes after he left and right away I thought, "Did he give her his number and I missed it?"

Other than that...god, I love this show!

I've had the same cell phone # since 1997.  Most of my friends all have the same cell numbers, too.  I didn't think it odd at all that she still had his #. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think I've had the same cell number for at least 15 years or so.  I've gone through different carriers, but I love my simple number so I always keep it.

[memememe76]

Also, Sophie and Kevin were childhood sweethearts. Sophie and Kate were friends and may have kept in touch. Or Jack and Rebecca may have been friends with Sophie's parents (who may still live in that neighbourhood). 

[Cardie]

As for the Pearsons' diaspora from Pittsburgh, there can be many plausible explanations. Randall, as others have said, would have to be in a major financial center because of his profession. Perhaps Kevin first started acting on one of the NY soaps in the late 90s, taking bride Sophie with him. When he moved on to TV in LA, he asked Kate to come out and be his assistant. Rebecca and Miguel can't really still be in Pittsburgh for the geography to work. Perhaps they recently moved to be near the grandchildren since the other two were on the West Coast.

It's William's move to relatively nearby (to Randall) Philly that doesn't have an easy explanation, but it may be Jesse related or have to do with his music career after he got clean.

[ShadowFacts]

31 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

Actually Rebecca and Miguel still live in the house the kids grew up in. Randall mentioned it to William ages ago.

If so, I think there's a continuity problem, because when they showed Rebecca and Miguel's house when Randall went there and confronted her after Thanksgiving, it was not the same as the house they've shown in Pittsburgh.  It also looked different in the Christmas episode with Miguel outside.

19 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Much was revealed this episode - I don't know if we knew before that the birthday was August 31

They did reveal that last week when we saw the events of the birth unfold. 

About the party - what was Jack working on beforehand?  Decorations?  Or did they provide the costumes?  Because Halloween parties are when kids come dressed up, not birthday parties usually.  I wondered about that. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I find this very annoying.  There are plenty of shows that aren't filmed where they take place and it still feels like they are wherever.  I'm watching another show right now that takes place in Seattle, but TPTB have made absolutely no effort whatsoever to hide the fact it is filmed in Vancouver, BC--even going so far as showing very well-known Vancouver landmarks.  My husband, who grew up in the Seattle area, finds this hilarious.

"The Mindy Project" showed a location change to SAN FRANCISCO by, what else?  Showing Toronto streetcars with the Toronto Transit Commission logo on them.  Obviously.  I find it so funny and honestly I don't care.  I guess because I'm in Toronto and we take what glory we can get.  On "Friends", an "NYC hospital" was what I assume to be the biggest university library in Toronto, and on "Rules of Engagement" they use a landmark Toronto hotel as Patrick Warburton's workplace.  I also saw some dumb Kiefer Sutherland movie where the attack on a US President happened at Toronto City Hall... I think Resident Evil used it too.  You can tell I love this shit.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[talktoomuch]

6 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

...William has gotten away with an awful lot.

Sometimes, when people are dying, whether or not they have been good parents/friends/siblings, and whether or not they have done "enough" to make up for past mistakes, they want to maximize the time they have left with the people they love when they get to the end.

[tennisgurl]

Oh, I can just tell those bastards are going to have Jack die in the flashbacks in the same episode that William dies in the present, and I`m sorry that I`ll be late to the discussion, but I`ll need to put off watching the finale until Friday afternoon, so I can take the whole weekend to cry without it affecting work. Just the glimpse of Jacks funeral made my heart hurt. He was so young! The kids only looked like they were in their teens!

Really good episode, lots of interesting stuff that fits in with what we have seen before. So Kevin was married to Kates childhood best friend? Interesting. So we say goodbye to the love triangle, and hello to Kevin attempting to get his ex wife back. And we see where Kevin got his dramatic streak! We still don't know what exactly made him want to be a professional actor, but we can see how much he loved playing to a crowd, and how he enjoys play acting in general. We also got to see the kid Big Three playing and being cute. Then, of course, we get Jacks funeral. Oy.

Kate can be a bit annoying, but I really felt for her when she was screaming in her exercise class. It must have been awful for her, losing her dad so early. I wonder if that's when she really started getting overweight, or let it get out of control. Jack was just such a great dad. I don't mind him being an awesome husband and father. He still comes off as real to me.

Speaking of Kate, congrats Kate, you have found a guy who makes Toby look like a model of subtlety and tact. I cant stand house guy already. How does Kate only seem to attract these super intense guys who sexually latch onto her instantly? I'm not a huge Toby fan, but I thought he was pretty likable in his scenes with Kevin, and at least he knew Kate was single and interested when he started hitting on her. This guy started acting like they were instantly going to be having sex even after she told him she was engaged! I have no idea if he's an employee or a camper. I thought he was a camper, but I might be wrong. Either way, dude was creepy, and I will be pissed if Kate actually falls for his bullshit.

Edited January 25, 2017 by tennisgurl

[PRgal]

15 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

"The Mindy Project" showed a location change to SAN FRANCISCO by, what else?  Showing Toronto streetcars with the Toronto Transit Commission logo on them.  Obviously.  I find it so funny and honestly I don't care.  I guess because I'm in Toronto and we take what glory we can get.  On "Friends", an "NYC hospital" was what I assume to be the biggest university library in Toronto, and on "Rules of Engagement" they use a landmark Toronto hotel as Patrick Warburton's workplace.  I also saw some dumb Kiefer Sutherland movie where the attack on a US President happened at Toronto City Hall... I think Resident Evil used it too.  You can tell I love this shit.

Biggest university library in Toronto (assuming it's Robarts), did it look like errr....a turkey?

[Jax7917]

9 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I have to disagree on this.  When William asked about lunch and Randall said he needed to work through it, William pushed back with the "who knows how many good days I have left" comment specifically designed to manipulate Randall into changing his mind.  Then he hears Randall tell someone they are grabbing a quick sandwich, and he decides to drag out the afternoon and ask for a driving lesson.  There is no way William was going to be kept from making Randall do what William wanted, and he knows Randall well enough now to know what buttons to push.  I wish Randall had stood up to him, but my annoyance is with William on that episode.

Not sure why this seems to be a theme in the comments ... his long lost father who he just reconnected with is going to die any day .. when William dies Randall isn't going to care about a random day at work , he's gonna cherish the memories they finally made 

[DayGlorious]

16 minutes ago, Cardie said:

As for the Pearsons' diaspora from Pittsburgh, there can be many plausible explanations.

Individually, maybe. As a whole, not so much. It doesn't really add up for a family that holds onto so many traditions to have so few roots. 

16 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Randall, as others have said, would have to be in a major financial center because of his profession. Perhaps Kevin first started acting on one of the NY soaps in the late 90s, taking bride Sophie with him.

Randall makes some amount of sense. Even then, though, the job is pretty obviously not in Manhattan proper (the driving scene and the occasional skyline shot make that much clear). And I will be the first to admit I know nothing about commodities trading and how weather patterns factor in, but wouldn't the Midwest be a better place for such a job? Like Kansas City, or Omaha, or OKC, or even Chicago? 

13 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Perhaps Kevin first started acting on one of the NY soaps in the late 90s, taking bride Sophie with him. When he moved on to TV in LA, he asked Kate to come out and be his assistant.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm not in front of a TV, so can't properly fact-check), but didn't Peggy Bundy...I mean, Kevin's agent...discover him at a small-potatoes improv show and get him the "Manny" job? Even a has-been soap actor would be a better-known quantity.

23 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Rebecca and Miguel can't really still be in Pittsburgh for the geography to work. Perhaps they recently moved to be near the grandchildren since the other two were on the West Coast.

Just going out on a limb here...usually when people retire, they downsize. Without any exterior shots of the house in PGH (or none that I can remember, anyway), I'm pretty confident that Rebecca and Miguel's house is at least the same size, if not larger, and in a nicer neighborhood. Maybe Randall bought it for them so they could be closer to the grandkids, though...who knows. 

26 minutes ago, Cardie said:

It's William's move to relatively nearby (to Randall) Philly that doesn't have an easy explanation, but it may be Jesse related or have to do with his music career after he got clean.

Yeah, huge continuity gap there. In the NA scene. after William talks about how he went clean when he saw a monkey in the street, Jessie mentions that the monkey was real. I can't imagine such a thing making news or being particularly memorable for anyone outside the city in which it happened. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

16 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Biggest university library in Toronto (assuming it's Robarts), did it look like errr....a turkey?

Yeah Robarts and I always thought it was intended to be a peacock.  

[Cherry Cola]

5 hours ago, bybrandy said:

Wasn't it established in the last episode that the kids were born in 1980 since Dr. K's wife died 14 months ago in 1979?  That makes the party in 1990.  

Love the Princess Bride.  LOVE and loved it at that age, too.  My mom took my brother and I to see it in the theaters after she accidentally saw it on a business trip (what she went to see was sold out and she needed a break) but this movie did not get widely known until it was out on video.    I am willing to believe Kevin got dragged to that movie because it was Kate's pick and he decided he loved it cause Sophie did (as it was established he was scared when they saw it in the theater) but this movie was kind of a theatrical flop.  All the kids at the party being familiar with it seems a little off to me.  Not enough that I minded, but since we're talking dates I thought I'd throw that out there.

oh! You are right! I was remembering the 1989 from their 9th party they showed. 

[J0nas3]

6 hours ago, AriAu said:

As I said above, I am not sure where Randall lives-I thought it was still Pittsburgh area. If it is NY, when did the family move there since the cabin was supposedly only an hour away. I think they are really playing fast and loose with geography here. If it is NY, we certainly are not getting many NY type location shots.

Kate's doctor has to be in NY. She describes the "immersive experience" as 'upstate, in the Adirondacks.' The Adirondacks are only in NY.

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

There is a school of thought that if it makes your child happy, then that is all that matters.  As a parent, it is your duty to sometimes make tough decisions for the sake of your child. 

A new study suggests that parents like Jack who ignore any signs of a weight problem, end up with thinner kids.  I've always believed that making a child conscious of their food choices  just leads to starvation/binge behavior.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/18/bad-news-for-parents-your-fat-kid-gets-fatter-when-you-think-hes-fat/

Edited January 25, 2017 by JudyObscure
Add link.

[VioletNevermind]

1 hour ago, talktoomuch said:

Sometimes, when people are dying, whether or not they have been good parents/friends/siblings, and whether or not they have done "enough" to make up for past mistakes, they want to maximize the time they have left with the people they love when they get to the end.

All I can do is agree.  I just finished an indepth discussion of this show with my mom and she gently brought me around to the same realization.  I've been viewing William's story much too broadly.

[chocolatine]

I only nitpicked about the Like A Virgin era Madonna costumes because Kate was clearly all about Vogue. She must have seen the video many times since she was teaching Jack the hand movements. Also, I never thought of Like A Virgin as less racy than Vogue.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

A lot of people were bothered by Horse Whisperer (TM @Tikichick I think, which was hilarious.)  It's funny because it made me think.  Why am I so bothered by Toby, but not at all bothered by Horse Whisperer; instead I was laughing at his antics?

That's definitely an interesting question to ask, for sure, because I thought Horse Whisperer was the worst. Even if I pictured him as a Kevin or a Randall, I do think that I'd still be bothered by him. I think it was his first scene that bothered me personally, the way he seemed oddly possessive of a woman he never even talked to before. His first line about who she was talking to bothered me, but not as much as his "We'll see" to her saying that she was engaged. All he knew about he was that she was pretty and then he found out she had a fiance, and his response is "We'll see"? At best, it's just very rude and uncalled for, and I made the same exact disgusted face that Kate made. At worst, it's very sexist of him to want to steal Kate away from her fiance, as if she's some prize or challenge. He doesn't even know Kate's name and he's already blatantly staking his claims. It's not even confidence at that point. Also, his asking who she was talking to, as if he has a right to know. 

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I did really like one poster's observation that if Horse Whisperer looked like Kevin, some women would probably be swooning at his actions rather than find him creepy.  That's interesting too.  Makes one think.  Anyway!

This is actually a good point. There are women who would enjoy this type of behaviour, that's for sure, all because of their looks. 

1 hour ago, DayGlorious said:

Individually, maybe. As a whole, not so much. It doesn't really add up for a family that holds onto so many traditions to have so few roots. 

For Kevin, it makes sense as to why he moved. Maybe for Randall, once he met and married Beth, they decided to move to New Jersey once he got his job. Kate is someone who probably felt Jack's loss and wanted to move away from her mother. And I'm guessing that Rebecca decided to eventually move closer to Randall. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Lady Calypso

[roughing it]

Quote

About the party - what was Jack working on beforehand? 

Jack was bedazzling "Madonna" gloves that were given to Kate's party guests.

[mojoween]

What on earth is egg cream?  And was bedazzling a thing in the late eighties?  I don't remember that being a thing until the early 2000's.

I was getting annoyed with Kate's behavior at the camp, because the other participants were into it, and she was acting like she was so above it.  Like if you hate it, then leave.  But don't drag down everyone around you.

I am going to have to listen to Kevin's speech again because I feel like he had a closed parenthesis in his last sentence but I don't remember him having an open one.

If they hadn't show us previously that Randall went with William to the oncologist, I would be wondering if William was putting on a huge scam.  Like he was pretending to be on chemo to get in with Randall, then William wants to stop chemo and now he is a chipper guy out to buy sunglasses and steal Randall's car.

Yes, I'm reaching.  Yes, I'm odd.  It just came so far out of left field, would he really feel that great so soon after stopping?

I did like Randall's "it's Wednesday" retort.  He is so wryly amusing.

[memememe76]

Regarding the Madonna dressup, I could easily have seen Kate and Rebecca/Jack having a discussion of what her party would entail. Young Kate may have asked for cone bras, but Rebecca and Jack would've nixed it. 

The voguing scene was so cute. No offence to the actress, but you could tell that she was not familiar with Voguing. Kids tend to be very exact about their passions. But soooo cute regardless. 

[MsChicklet]

An egg cream is a New York City soda. Milk, chocolate syrup, and carbonated water. No egg, no cream.

[Percysowner]

35 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

A new study suggests that parents like Jack who ignore any signs of a weight problem, end up with thinner kids.  I've always believed that making a child conscious of their food choices  just leads to starvation/binge behavior.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/18/bad-news-for-parents-your-fat-kid-gets-fatter-when-you-think-hes-fat/

This. No kid, even back in the 80s and 90s was unaware that they were heavy. Having your parents constantly point it out only makes food a bigger issue.

As to why Kate was heavy and the boys weren't, we have been getting some studies that indicate that weight can be tied to things that are not behavior related. One study indicates that overweight may be influenced by our gut bacteria. Another study correlates a certain virus with being overweight. When society then blames an overweight person for being overweight, that can lead to stress eating which makes the problem worse. Having a parent who focuses on weight can have the same effect.

Quote

 And was bedazzling a thing in the late eighties?

Quote

The Bedazzler first appeared in the 1970s as a direct marketing product.[citation needed] It was developed by NSI Innovations in the United States.[citation needed] It is promoted through Television infomercials, most recently by Tana Goertz of "The Apprentice" fame. Currently, DRTV company SAS Group, Inc. owns the rights to the product.[citation needed] Previously, the product was owned by Television marketer Avram C. Freedberg.[1]

 

Bedazzling has been around for a while. It would come and go as a fad.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Percysowner

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, DayGlorious said:

Just going out on a limb here...usually when people retire, they downsize. Without any exterior shots of the house in PGH (or none that I can remember, anyway), I'm pretty confident that Rebecca and Miguel's house is at least the same size, if not larger, and in a nicer neighborhood. Maybe Randall bought it for them so they could be closer to the grandkids, though...who knows. 

I don't think Miguel is retired.  DIdn't he mention in the ep when he and Rebecca dropped in on Randall that he'd gotten the Hamilton tickets from someone in his office?  Still, they are empty nesters (not including Kate, who I guess is staying with them when she's not at fat camp and, hell, Toby might be there, too), so the bigger house is a surprise in that respect.

[sasha206]

Just started the episode on video on demand, but oy, the saintly Jack wants more kids.  He wants to freeze time and 3 kids aren't enough for him.  What a guy!

And the deal with Randall and his party:  (1) why would you expect the kid to keep track of who is coming and who isn't coming?  Wouldn't there have been an RSVP?; (2) if no one bothered to show up, why would you make such a production to your kid about it?  Seemingly as a parent your first thought wouldn't be: "Did you give out the invitations" but "oh no, maybe they didn't come because the kids don't like him or they are prejudiced?" I mean, what kind of idiot parent walks up to her kid's empty birthday party and gives them the 3rd degree on why no one came?

Edited January 26, 2017 by sasha206

[Cardie]

It just occurred to me that Kate's best friend moved in on her brother just as Jack's best friend moved in on his widow.

[memememe76]

Just now, Cardie said:

It just occurred to me that Kate's best friend moved in on her brother just as Jack's best friend moved in on his widow.

But at least Miguel didn't abandon Jack at his birthday party. 

[Cardie]

Just now, memememe76 said:

But at least Miguel didn't abandon Jack at his birthday party.

True but we've yet to find out whether Miguel did anything sleazy regarding Rebecca before Jack died.

[OtterMommy]

10 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Just started the episode on video on demand, but oy, the saintly Jack wants more kids.  He wants to freeze time and 3 kids aren't enough for him.  What a guy!

I don't think Jack seriously wanted another child.  I think he mistook wanting his kids to be babies again for wanting to have another baby--and I think he realized that by the end of the episode.

[JudyObscure]

24 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I was getting annoyed with Kate's behavior at the camp, because the other participants were into it, and she was acting like she was so above it.  Like if you hate it, then leave.  But don't drag down everyone around you.

That's the same way she acted at the Weight Watchers meeting, too.  I like Kate and unlike many others, I'm never tired of her weight loss story, but I sometimes think that if she looked like Olivia, we all might hate her.

[AriAu]

Quote

Individually, maybe. As a whole, not so much. It doesn't really add up for a family that holds onto so many traditions to have so few roots. 

I have been convinced (other than a continuity break on the location of the cabin) that they are out of Pittsburgh-Randall being in NJ makes sense-there are tons of financial companies across the river from Manhattan, especially those that don't NEED Wall St address (and rent) and there is no doubt that Rebecca and Miguel are not in the original house and continuity from the Christmas episode says they MUST be close by. As th the roots, I am sure we are going to find out that they decided to tear up those roots after Jack died. How Miguel gets back in the picture, I'm sure that we will find it out as a surprise....behind a soon to be opened door!

The Princess Bride came out in October 1987 (yeah, I am a freak about this movie, but not that big-I checked IMDB) and made almost double its production cost-moderate success, but become a cult classic once it hit video which I know was before 1998 since I remembering it at friend's house to occupy their little kid...and I spent the whole evening watching it! I have no doubt that by 1990, the 9 and 10 year olds knew all the lines and were laughing at totally different things than I was!

[JudyObscure]

18 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I don't think Jack seriously wanted another child.  I think he mistook wanting his kids to be babies again for wanting to have another baby--and I think he realized that by the end of the episode.

Maybe he wanted to start high and bargain down to the dog.  I really think they should have a dog.

[CofCinci]

If it comes down to a Toby/Kate/HorseDick love triangle - I hope they pull out a childhood sweet/first ex-husband for Kate.

[sasha206]

The writers are *really* pushing it with the men who take one look at Kate and instantly fall in lust/love.

Toby and his grand gestures.  Um, that scene was irritating as hell.  So basically the grand gestures are to make women fall in love with him.  The grand gesture isn't something special for that special woman.  It's all about him.  It's a calculated move.  

Not to mention, Kate and Toby pretty much just met and now they're engaged?  The writers can't give their relationship a little more time to grow and seem like they have something in common other than being fat?

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

That's definitely an interesting question to ask, for sure, because I thought Horse Whisperer was the worst. Even if I pictured him as a Kevin or a Randall, I do think that I'd still be bothered by him. I think it was his first scene that bothered me personally, the way he seemed oddly possessive of a woman he never even talked to before. His first line about who she was talking to bothered me, but not as much as his "We'll see" to her saying that she was engaged.

I totally get it, but that stuff just made me laugh.  I guess because I've heard men flirt like that and I take it as a joke.  [Meanwhile, I spent 4 years studying sexual assault (criminology) and I worship "The Gift of Fear" as a bible so I totally get why he creeped some women out.]

Quote

The writers are *really* pushing it with the men who take one look at Kate and instantly fall in lust/love.

I've been trying to avoid this angle, because I think all of my thoughts on this will just start to vomit out.  But yes. I think the writers are DEEPLY overcompensating for Kate being an overweight person and their reaction is to make you think that "Hey it doesn't matter that Kate is fat. Look at how psychotic men are over her."  It's insulting to my intelligence.  Men of all walks of life, ages, races, stared at me when I was in shape, and now that I'm overweight, THEY DON'T LOOK.  That's "reality" as I see it.  I've also been called "fat" by male strangers on the street.  (I'm like a size 14.) That would be more realistic to me than Toby and Horse Whisperer, but whatever, maybe it is a realistic depiction for some.

Quote

An egg cream is a New York City soda. Milk, chocolate syrup, and carbonated water. No egg, no cream.

I think I only heard about this growing up because of The Babysitters Club books.  Stacey was the cosmopolitan teenager from NYC who would drink egg creams all the time.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

2 hours ago, DayGlorious said:

Individually, maybe. As a whole, not so much. It doesn't really add up for a family that holds onto so many traditions to have so few roots. 

For Kevin, it makes sense as to why he moved. Maybe for Randall, once he met and married Beth, they decided to move to New Jersey once he got his job. Kate is someone who probably felt Jack's loss and wanted to move away from her mother. And I'm guessing that Rebecca decided to eventually move closer to Randall. 

Lots of times when people go to college, they stay in that city/area if they've liked it and gotten a first job there or have a significant other.  That could have happened with one or more of them.

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

I don't think Miguel is retired.  DIdn't he mention in the ep when he and Rebecca dropped in on Randall that he'd gotten the Hamilton tickets from someone in his office?  Still, they are empty nesters (not including Kate, who I guess is staying with them when she's not at fat camp and, hell, Toby might be there, too), so the bigger house is a surprise in that respect.

If Miguel is roughly Jack's age, and Rebecca is 66, then Miguel is in his 70s and I hope he is retired (poor guy has gout) but these days, you never know.  

[Tikichick]

4 hours ago, DayGlorious said:

Thanks for pointing out the obvious in regards to Randall. That doesn't really explain Miguel and Rebecca, or Rebecca's parents (who were local enough for Jack and Rebecca's hypothetical move into their house to not involve quitting his job), or Sophie (no 21/22-year-old who isn't named Hilton, Trump, etc. could afford a house like that in NYC then OR now), or Kevin (whose "big Broadway dreams" are recent and mandated by his career implosion and TV contract, and who just moved to NY, though it's possible he and Sophie lived there together before). Even taking Pittsburgh's economic struggles into account, it's implausible for none of those characters to have stayed behind. 

No amount of "inner discovery" can ever make that guy's rapey-ness and seduction-community handbook behavior OK as far as I'm concerned. 

I was referring to the writers' purpose for the character, NOT the fact it was okay for him to behave that way.  If he's written that way as a plot device and not as an ongoing character, I'll just let it go.  If he's intended to be a meaningful part of the show, no thanks.

[sasha206]

15 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've been trying to avoid this angle, because I think all of my thoughts on this will just start to vomit out.  But yes. I think the writers are DEEPLY overcompensating for Kate being an overweight person and their reaction is to make you think that "Hey it doesn't matter that Kate is fat. Look at how psychotic men are over her."  It's insulting to my intelligence.  Men of all walks of life, ages, races, stared at me when I was in shape, and now that I'm overweight, THEY DON'T LOOK.  I won't hear otherwise.  I know reality as I see it and that's what I see.  I've also been called "fat" by male strangers on the street.  That would be more realistic to me than Toby and Horse Whisperer, but whatever, I'm not white so maybe it is a realistic depiction for some.

 

YES!  Same here.  When I'm thin, I get looked at.  When I'm fat, the fatter men won't give me the time of day. 

I could believe that her and Toby fall in love at the Weight Watchers stuff.  But I also would believe the story more if it wasn't some instantaneous thing and wasn't some overwhelming lust on his part towards her.  It would be more realistic.  More men are like Shallow Hal than not; they could be pigs but they still want the supermodel.  

And I could even buy the horse trainer liking her...if they didn't make it seem like one look and he's inviting her to his room.  I mean, most guys wouldn't have their head turned by someone as obese as she is. And one that's engaged no less?

Edited January 26, 2017 by sasha206