S33.E13: I'm Going For A Million Bucks / S33.E14: Reunion

[nutty1]

I didn't mind Adam winning. I would have rathered it be David, Ken or Jay, but I have no problem with it being Adam. 

Maybe because I am old, but I still like the "old school" way of playing Survivor. 

As far as all of Adam's crying through all these weeks. I have watched and read about enough reality TV shows to know they know how to push people's buttons to get the reaction they want. And they could have showed all the clips of him crying and not as many as the rest. "Reality" TV is not always true reality. And I get the tears at the FTC....emotions run high to begin with, top that off with the stress of a sick family member.

[LadyChatts]

1 hour ago, anthonyd46 said:

I think this is another case of bitter jurors Chris and Bret just not being able to accept Ken beat them. They didn't like the guy from the beginning. Neither did Jessica or Sunday, but Jessica warmed up to him when he told her the correct information and she didn't believe him. Overall I think it just let a bad taste in Chris and Bret's mouth and they had power over some jurors for sure.

Throw in Hannah, too.  Chris and Bret are typical old school players.  The big beefy guys who come in and want to take control, and get rid of anyone that doesn't fall into line and do what they're told.  It's probably why they wanted to get rid of David and Ken.  And it didn't help that David and Ken upstaged them with their fire making skills and being a huge provider for the camp.  Chris and Bret did nothing in this game to further themselves, except get lucky.  

I do think this jury was a little bitter than I expected.  Of course, no surprise the GenXers seemed more bitter.  In addition, I get that Ken dug himself a hole when he went on and on about loyalty.  But seriously, everyone said David was a threat to win.  Bret said as much in his parting words.  So what did they expect Ken to do?  Yes, I agree with the poster who said they were probably just pissed that Ken made the deciding vote to do what they had been wanting to do for a long time, and that their nemesis had outlasted them until that point.

[MissEwa]

I thought going into the finale I'd be fine with anyone but Bret, but man, I was disappointed by the result. I've slept on it now and I'm less disappointed but I'm still annoyed. I know Hannah didn't play a flawless game but I think she played a much better game than she was given credit for, and I think she deserved at least a few votes. This is a nice fairytale win but it's not a gameplay win - which I guess is fine. I've always said that the great thing about Survivor is that you not only have to get to the end but then you have to convince the people you voted out to give you a million bucks, and Adam did that and Hannah didn't, so well played, Adam. 

Hannah got herself to the end by playing herself up as the goat, and taking out other goats, and that's one way to do it but unfortunately once you convince everyone you're a goat it's hard to get them to decide you're not - even if they kind of know, they're annoyed that they fell for it. I was amazed at f4 that her name didn't come up at all between David and Adam. David would have been able to get Ken to vote out Hannah and I'm pretty sure he knew that, and Adam did too. I think maybe she should have talked that up at FTC - that while she was on the chopping block at 10 and 9, her name didn't come up again after that and that was by design. But honestly... I don't think that jury were ever going to give her the win. 

(I don't know that it applies here, on Hannah "interrupting": I don't know if there have been widespread studies but there are cases that show that in situations like this, women get perceived as interrupting more often even if they haven't. A year or so ago someone sat down with an Australian panel show where one particular female panelist was accused of rudeness and constant interrupting and found she'd actually interrupted others less often then some of the men, but even other women felt like they'd heard her interrupting more.) 

Can we ban trail attorneys from asking FTC questions? They're always so pompous and 'look how smart I am' and in this case... wrong. And Zeke and Sunday's questions almost felt like production prompts. 'Hey, mention the theme!' 'Hey, next season is all about 'game changers', mention the evolution of the game!' 

Jay got played by the fake idol, and he lost himself that immunity challenge, and he took it all with such good humour. I've disliked him at various points during the game but he actually seems like a really good guy. I wouldn't mind seeing him again. 

Bret, on the other hand, shut up. Especially about the 'crazies'. Ugh. 

The worst thing though? That at the reunion Hannah's entire game and growth arc was reduced to 'the awkward girl who flirted with Ken hahahahaha as if!' Shut up show. 

Next season? The theme seems like a reach. Caleb changed the game by... dehydrating and nearly dying? 

[Alapaki]

The doodles on the David-elimination votes looked like sad attempts at crowns to me, as in "we've defeated King David".  Sort of an attempt to praise him while kicking him out the door.

[Special K]

7 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

The doodles on the David-elimination votes looked like sad attempts at crowns to me, as in "we've defeated King David".  Sort of an attempt to praise him while kicking him out the door.

One looked like a head with a crown, and one looked like one of those hanging bats, maybe?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I caught that as well.  You could see the Jay unwrapping the parchment from around the HII when he broke open the coconut.

I didn't see it and spent the whole time wondering if it had the "congratulations you have found the hidden immunity idol" note with it. Because if it didn't then Jay should have been mighty suspicious of it. And if it did have one of David's old notes the show did a crap job of showing that important detail. I'm still not sure what exactly David hoped to gain in planting the fake idol. At the end of the day all it did was make Jay look foolish. 

Quote

Will is 18. Many high school kids find that older adults come off as long winded and judgmental. I know he was out there, and I wasn't. But I really don't think Ken intends to be that way, and it's quite possible that Will's interpretation is colored by immaturity and inexperience

It's also quite possible the people who watched Ken on TV did so through rose colored glasses because of the way he looks. These people spent actual time with him, lived with him 24/7 and interacted with him, for real. I' giving them the benefit of the doubt that they knew him better than the people who just saw him for 43 minutes once a week on TV. And clearly none of them were impressed with him.

[Rachel RSL]

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm still not sure what exactly David hoped to gain in planting the fake idol. At the end of the day all it did was make Jay look foolish. 

I wondered the same thing until someone upthread wisely pointed out that, once Jay found the fake idol, he stopped looking for the real one.

12 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It's also quite possible the people who watched Ken on TV did so through rose colored glasses because of the way he looks. These people spent actual time with him, lived with him 24/7 and interacted with him, for real. I' giving them the benefit of the doubt that they knew him better than the people who just saw him for 43 minutes once a week on TV. And clearly none of them were impressed with him.

I don't think any of us are wearing rose-coloured glasses. When he made that bonehead move a couple weeks ago, we were all quick to call him out on the bonehead that he is. As for the people on the show knowing him better than the rest of us, yes I agree. And almost all of them have said that he's a nice guy. Maybe they weren't impressed with his game but they all seem to genuinely like him as a person. Unless I just haven't read the exit interviews where they discussed him being a pompous ass.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, pamplemousse said:

I'm not excited about next season. I like watching novices to the game, and this season was one of the more entertaining ones. I especially do not need to see people who've played the game more than twice.

Agreed. Some of those names....I've seen way too often. I don't mind a returning players season once in awhile, but I we JUST had one. Enough already. This new cast was so refreshing and fun; more like it, please. 

[ghoulina]

15 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I don't think any of us are wearing rose-coloured glasses. When he made that bonehead move a couple weeks ago, we were all quick to call him out on the bonehead that he is. As for the people on the show knowing him better than the rest of us, yes I agree. And almost all of them have said that he's a nice guy. Maybe they weren't impressed with his game but they all seem to genuinely like him as a person. Unless I just haven't read the exit interviews where they discussed him being a pompous ass.

Yea, and speaking for myself (as a Ken fan) - he is NOT my typical type. A bigger guy like Chris would be. Chris reminds me a lot of my husband, except my husband is totally blue collar. Tall, big arms, fair complexion. But there was something about Ken and it was more than his looks. I just liked his "old soul" ways. But yea, when he went off the deep end, I got super annoyed with him. I even said, towards the end, I didn't think he was on of the more impressive players. Although he did pull through with IC wins in the end. I just Ken has one of those personalities where what he intends isn't always how he came across. But I definitely think a lot people thought he was a good dude. David loved him, and Jess was very close with as well. Hannah got along very well with him. Didn't Chris say he was a super nice guy, upon leaving? It's possible that he definitely had his moments where he came across as condescending or pompous, but I also think it's possible Will just read him the wrong way. 

[ProfCrash]

Waves Hello!

I took the season off, work, kid, bad stuff and good stuff but I had to comment on this season and the finale.

I loved this cast and this season. I thought that the game was well played by a lot of folks. I thought that there were a lot of different personality types. I loved that everyone out there seemed to understand that this was a game and no one got overly pissed off or bitter. It was a refreshing change of pace. And there was some great game play and some attempts at great game play that failed miserably but people were freaking playing.

I am not surprised Adam won. Hannah was fine but never came across as someone that the others took seriously as a player. And she fell apart when she was targeted. She is a good person who had a good strategy but her persona and reactions never gave the impression that she was someone to be taken seriously as a gamer. I love her and thought she played well but her personality tics cost her the money. I thought she did great at final tribal. I love that she corrected Adam on a regular basis and made her case so strongly. It was too little too late. She needed to be doing something in the game to sell herself and she failed to do that.

Ken was a good guy but he was boring. He played a phenomenal game. He won immunity, he made good alliances and he was a great provider. I got the impression he came across as a bit pompous and people got tired of hearing about loyalty and trust and other such things. I am not sure that it was clear what moves he was making and what strategy he was playing and so his efforts were discounted. He would have been in a better position of Hannah or Adam were total assholes and he could play that he was the good guy who played a clean game but that was not going to work with this crew. I also think that his BS move with Will lost Ken a ton of votes. It cost him Will's and probably Brett and Sunday's and maybe a few others. It was shady and flat out awful game play.

Adam was obviously trying to make moves. He failed more often then not but he was trying. He connected with a lot of different people. I think everyone was aware that Jay and Adam were opposed to each other in the game but respected each other. Adam had some helpful scape goats in Hannah and Ken. He could argue that he tried to get David out but he couldn't do anything about those twos votes.  And Adam played from the bottom of the pack on several occasions but he made it work. I think his game play was flawed but he tried his damndest to play a great strategic game even if it didn't work out.

When present with the three of them, it was an easy choice for the jury. The quirky Hannah who had a ton of frail moments? The provider Ken who was a bit sanctimonious even though he won a lot of challenges? Adam who tried to play a strategic game and failed but still managed to make it to the end because of relationships he built with alliancemates and the opposition? It was a pretty easy choice. I think he had it in the bag without telling his Mom's story.

It is hard for me to be unhappy with Adam's win. I think it was brave of him to go and play. Clearly he discussed it with his family and they told him to go. That included his mother. He was not running around telling everyone her story. He enjoyed playing and relished the opportunity. He knew the risk he was taking and he seemed to be ok with that. I am glad that he was able to see his Mom before she died and that he was able to fulfill both of their dreams.

Lung Cancer sucks. My Mom survived stage 3B lung cancer but my god was it brutal. And she was one of the lucky ones, 95% of people with her illness do not live. She was not a smoker. The biopsy showed that the type of cancer she had was not associated with smoking at all, which made my Father happy because he was the smoker in the house. Lung Cancer is one of the top killers of women but we don't discuss that. We tend to overlook it because we think that lung cancer = smoker and somehow it is deserved. In many cases that is not the case. I am thrilled that he was able to bring some additional attention to this devastating illness. It needs more people discussing it and a ton more funding.

[Alapaki]

20 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I wondered the same thing until someone upthread wisely pointed out that, once Jay found the fake idol, he stopped looking for the real one.

I saw that upthread, too.  And it's the only angle that didn't occur to me last night.

But I still think it was an incredibly risky strategy.  At the time he made and hid the fake HII, David hadn't won Individual Immunity.  If he lost that challenge, he left himself vulnerable to Jay strutting right into TC wearing that HII around his neck, and then hoping that Brett and Adam believed him when he tried to tell them Jay's idol was fake.

[fishcakes]

We always complain about the editing, but there was a moment last night that was nicely done when Ken won the IC.

Probst: Say it.

Ken: NOT. A. PARTICIPATION. TROPHY! Whooo! Yeah! [double fist pump]

Adam [looking at his board which reads, "Not a Participation Pyroth"]: My god! How did I miss that? I ... AUGGGH!

Bret [sadly and hoarsely to himself]: It was so easy. I don't know why I couldn't get it.

David [bites lip, buries face in hands]

Oskar Schindler [silently points to his watch]

And all of this while majestic music is swelling in the background. It had a cinematic, tragic feel to it, which is not something you generally see when people are just doing the Junior Jumble.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

And I forgot about Bob Crowley. Then again, who hasn't?

I always love a good Bob drag!

2 hours ago, pamplemousse said:

David really got me when, on his way out of the game, he thanked everyone for playing the game with him and said "Vinaka," and others also repeated "Vinaka." I played a lot of competitive sports when I was younger and even though there is only one winner in Survivor, I got the sense in that moment that for all the scheming and in-fighting, that group of people sitting there in that moment were like a team. I don't get that sense often with this show. People say this season was crappy with a lot of dumb novice players doing dumb shit, but I thought it was a great season with a group of people that had a real sense of unity and team spirit when it mattered. There were a few players I wasn't crazy about, but none of them were completely vile, there was definitely dysfunction and dissension but overall they all seemed to mostly like each other and get along.

This. So much. Damn, I loved this season! It's gonna be hard to watch next season, which I am sure will be terrible.

2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I noticed that Jay drew something on his ballot when he voted for Ken and I was like: "Is that a penis?"  But maybe it was a middle finger lol. In any case, I think he's the culprit.

I thought it was a penis, too!

Oh, and I completely agree with your entire post on this page @MissEwa.

Edited December 15, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[fishcakes]

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Damn, I loved this season! It's gonna be hard to watch next season, which I am sure will be terrible.

I know! I can't believe how much I grew to love this season. The first two or three weeks I was certain it was going to be dead boring. As for next season, I'm hoping it will turn out to be a nice surprise too, but I've seen the full cast list and it's trash. Even the ones I loved their first time or even second time have lost their luster now that they're about to make third and fourth appearances.

[Haleth]

Jay was about the least bitter player to ever be voted out. In fact watching Ponderosa you'll see an astonishingly lack of bitterness, so any appearance of such at final TC was probably a producer directed act.  Disappointment, yes, but they all were having so much fun at Ponderosa it's hard to imagine they begrudged the final 3 much.

[RedheadZombie]

17 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Speaking of smokers, you could tell that Ken was using that stick as a cigarette surrogate from the way he held it in his hand trying to ward off the shakes and nerves wishing he had some good ole nicotene.

I bet you're right.  And it explains why Ken, although quite attractive, looks older than his stated age.

17 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I didn't really understand why everyone in the game including David and Jeff acted like David was such a surefire winner, if he went to final three?  And at his last tribal, why was David proclaiming his game was the best?  He should've been downplaying his accomplishments.  No wonder Ken voted him out.  

I really think Ken had his mind made up before tribal.  I found his body language very telling.  For such a stoic person, he couldn't hide who he had voted for.  His head was hanging, and he had tears in his eyes.  David's talk wouldn't have changed Ken's mind - he's ride or die.  It was knowing that David would beat him, and that he was playing for his daughter first.

And how irritating that someone - Chris? - implied Ken carried David to final four.  As if.

Chris totally pulled a Spencer by being Adam's personal cheerleader, and instructing the others who to vote for.

I'm disappointed that Hannah didn't get one vote.  I didn't expect a guy to vote for her, but Michelle pointed out that Hannah was on the right side of every vote but one.  Hannah sensed both times she was in danger.  She swayed quite a few votes.  And she often led Adam, rather than the reverse.

[Guest]

When was Ken using a stick, at FTC?  He might just be a stick fiddler because after 3 days without nicotine, you're past any physical addiction.  The psychological part takes more time but he wouldn't have the shakes.  

I think Ken had his mind made up about David, too.  But David still probably shouldn't have acted like he was the best player.  Though if he knew for sure he was going, why not knock Adam down a peg on the way out, I guess.  

[LanceM]

It turns out Jay wasn't the only one Adam told about his mother's cancer during the game.

http://my.xfinity.com/blogs/tv/2016/12/15/survivor-millennials-vs-gen-x-winner-adam-jay-batman-joker/

 

Holmes: Chris gave you credit for Ken’s flip. Why do you think he gave it to you instead of Hannah?

Klein: First of all, I did have conversations with Ken about Dave that weren’t shown on the broadcast. I had a very important conversation with Ken the night that Bret was voted out where I actually, and this is going to sound crazy because it’s the wrong time to give someone a reason to get rid of someone, but I actually told Ken about my mom. Ken is an incredibly genuine person and believes that the best people should get to the end. And I wanted him to know that there was no shame in going to the end with me. He was playing for his daughter and I was playing for my family as well. Dave was standing in the way of both of us winning. I had a final three deal with Ken and so did Dave, so he was going to have to break his deal with one of us. I wanted it to seem equal in terms of how bad it would feel to get rid of both of us. Then it would come down to who he thought he might be able to beat and I knew that he’d side with me on that. On terms of the jury perspective, they didn’t know about that conversation, but time and time again they saw that I was the guy saying, “Dave is the biggest threat.” That was very intentional. I knew he wasn’t going to vote me out until we got to the final five. He needed my vote. But, he was also someone who, because we were talking him up so much, would absolutely win a jury vote. That’s part of the danger of talking him up so much. So, they saw what I was doing at Tribal Council.

[gator12]

And that how one plays to the jurors. Can't go to the FTC and make a case for yourself asking them that all they saw with their eyes was a lie. It won't work.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think that we, including myself, TOTALLY see Ken through rose-coloured glasses because of his looks.  If someone else had Ken's personality but not as blindingly handsome looks there's no way he'd get all of the love that Ken gets here.  Just my opinion.  People are very poetic when it comes to their love for Ken.  I admit it. I think he looks like a God. He's gorgeous.  I didn't fall "in love" with him, like I did Ozzy in Cook, but I mean, he's gorgeous.  

There's studies that show that people who are viewed as attractive are treated differently than "non" or "lesser" attractive people, so I don't think that the idea should be such a surprise.

Meanwhile, I see nothing OFFENSIVE about Ken.  Personally, we weren't shown it.  There's obviously some people here, in the audience, and on the island that find him pompous, pretentious, blah blah.  Nah.  I really don't.  I might have found him really boring or not 'my type of person I could converse with' on the island, (I honestly am not sure either way, based on the editing), but none of that offends me in the least.  I wouldn't go so far as to call him pompous.  His deep voice carries a gravitas that I don't think he necessarily feels when speaking.  I think he just has a very strong, unique demeanor that people aren't used to, which some read as pretentious or pompous.  Ken is singularly himself -- and from afar I find it kind of interesting.  I have no idea what I'd think on the island.  Honestly, we're the same age, but Ken and I couldn't seem more different.  So I'd probably find him interesting.  People always think I'm younger than I am, and I proudly call myself a Millennial (I don't want to be old. I never wanted to be older. I'm a young soul.).  To me, he's "weird" (not in a bad way).

The scene where Will is so frustrated with him?  It's funny to me.  Will I find kind of annoying personally.  I'd like to see MORE scenes like that, to get better grips on BOTH's personalities.  I find that stuff interesting.  We didn't get to see enough of Ken to see why Will would find him THAT frustrating, and we didn't see enough of Will to see why he thinks he's NOT frustrating (IMO).  So the scene is funny.  They could equally be very annoying.  I wouldn't know.  Ken doesn't fill up space with his voice.  He waits for his moments and then reflects.  I don't find that annoying.  It's hard to find quiet, thoughtful people annoying.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

I'm becoming increasingly put off by just how much Adam used his mom's illness as strategy. A part of me is impressed by his, I don't know, ruthlessness I guess, but the other part if me is like damn, that is really gross.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 We didn't get to see enough of Ken to see why Will would find him THAT frustrating,

I was relieved to hear Will say that about how hard it was to work with Ken because that scene where Ken treated him like he was interviewing Will for a job really bugged me.  And then Ken running to Jay bugged me even more.  

That was the end of my Ken love (until last night) but his stock didn't fall far for most posters here.  Which is ironic, given how quickly most of the people here are to point the shamey finger of sexism.  I do think he gets a free pass for being a hot, sensitive man, to a large extent.  

[Jillibean]

I really loved this season overall, but while I like Adam, it was a bit of a letdown to have him be the winner. Of the three, I personally felt he deserved it most, but I would have been much happier with David or Jay. However, I've been fairly convinced for several episodes now that it would be Adam, as it suddenly seemed like he had constant confessionals explaining his strategy and moves. I think I (again, personal opinion) would have been more impressed if he hadn't mentioned his mom at all during the FTC, but I sort of wonder if Jay's question got him to the point where he was holding back a flood of emotion and couldn't anymore. He seemed like he was barely keeping a lid on it and had to cut short whatever his response could have been to just get himself through that question. 

I think Adam's decision was his decision and I have no place to judge what was best for him and his family. I get that other people might have handled the situation differently, but that doesn't make one way right and another way wrong. Isn't that what makes Survivor interesting, that people handle the same situation in different ways, not one of which is necessarily "correct?" I appreciated him reminding Jeff, and everyone, that while it's a remarkable story, it's actually not a TV storyline--it's his life, and it's real, and it's painful.  

I would have been happy with a vote or two for Hannah, but I think Ken's seriously questionable play with the Will situation cost him any strategic respect he might have earned up until that point. You could practically feel David's frustration rolling off him when that occurred, and I'm sure he thought to himself that Ken was a good, loyal alliance member but a strategic liability--and I think others shared that view as well. I also wondered if Hannah's constant chattering that we caught glimpses of made her grating to be around at certain points for certain people and might have also impacted voting. I think people are less likely to vote for someone that they felt they were putting up with from a social standpoint, because if someone is irritating you and you just kind of bite your tongue and deal with it, it inherently makes you feel superior to that person. If we rewind to pre-merge, the Jay-Will alliance chose not to even tell Hannah about the Mikaela vote because they thought she could give them away by freaking out. I don't think those same people were ever going to see her as someone who ran the game behind the scenes. 

That being said--one thing Hannah said that didn't fit was that she changed the vote to Bret so as not to lose Ken's trust. But all she actually had to do was vote for ADAM (as Ken expected her to) and sit back and let Adam idol David out. Ken never would have been the wiser--he wouldn't have known that Hannah knew about the idol in advance. I think the real reason she changed the vote was that she didn't want Adam to have that moment of playing his idol successfully in front of the jury. By making sure the vote wasn't on him, she basically took away his glory and made the idol seem like a moot point and Adam seem out of the loop. And from THAT perspective, it's a good move and I thinks she could have looked good from owning up to it. 

I see that Hannah stated that she and Ken are not a thing, but they sure could have fooled me with that body language. They were all over each other, from the lower back rubbing and hand holding during the votes being read to their cuddling while they chatted about Hannah's flirting. It struck me as super weird that after all their head-kissing and touching and draping themselves over each other Jeff's big question was "Is Ken single?" and not "Are you guys together?" I can't decide if I should be offended on her behalf with that. It almost came off to me as Jeff implying that of course he knew they couldn't be together, so let's move on to the actual question. (Yes, I know Jeff already knew either way, but he also knew about Taylor and Figgy and still asked.) If Hannah better fit Jeff's perception of what a hot girl should look like and she and Ken behaved the exact same way, do we think there's any chance Jeff wouldn't have asked?

Edited December 16, 2016 by Jillibean

[iMonrey]

Quote

 And almost all of them have said that he's a nice guy. Maybe they weren't impressed with his game but they all seem to genuinely like him as a person. Unless I just haven't read the exit interviews where they discussed him being a pompous ass.

I think they're all decent enough people not to call anyone a pompous ass on their way out the door, but I also think they're saying "he's a nice guy" as a way of commenting further. As in . . . "Nice enough guy, but . . ."

I got the distinct impression everyone thought he was an odd duck. Not only Will, but at one point Adam told Bret that if Ken made the final three he wouldn't get a single vote. And in last night's episode David and Adam were discussing how they had never met a person quite as "unique" as Ken. So I think everyone who got asked about Ken or commented about Ken wanted to paraphrase by saying "Yeah, he's a great guy, but . . . " Because he didn't get a single vote.

He didn't get much love from the editors either. We only heard him mention his daughter a couple of times, as opposed to the nearly incessant references Adam made to his mother. We heard everyone discussing Jay and David and Taylor; the few comments that were made about Ken were typically indifferent. He just wasn't much of a presence this season and I never got a sense he had much personality frankly. I think it's easy to interpret his lack of personality as shyness or awkwardness, but I just saw lack of personality.

[waving feather]

4 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I noticed that Jay drew something on his ballot when he voted for Ken and I was like: "Is that a penis?"  But maybe it was a middle finger lol. In any case, I think he's the culprit.

I thought it was a penis as well but it's a squid. Probably cos Ken catches them for them.

30 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm becoming increasingly put off by just how much Adam used his mom's illness as strategy. A part of me is impressed by his, I don't know, ruthlessness I guess, but the other part if me is like damn, that is really gross.

That is gross to me now. I respected him when he said he only confided in Jay because he couldn't hold it in anymore. Even when he mentioned it at FTC, I didn't hold it against him much. But reading that he was telling people left and right.. Ew. I lost my dad to lung cancer too, but I can't imagine doing something like that. I try not to bring it up in general because it's so hard. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by waving feather

[gator12]

Wait so telling two people about your mom illness means that one was telling everyone left and right as a strategy now? No

And if Adam used it has one its a dumb one, that just would make people not want to take you to the finale.

Jay and Adam friendship outside the game is really cute

[RedheadZombie]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I think they're all decent enough people not to call anyone a pompous ass on their way out the door, but I also think they're saying "he's a nice guy" as a way of commenting further. As in . . . "Nice enough guy, but . . ."

I got the distinct impression everyone thought he was an odd duck. Not only Will, but at one point Adam told Bret that if Ken made the final three he wouldn't get a single vote. And in last night's episode David and Adam were discussing how they had never met a person quite as "unique" as Ken. So I think everyone who got asked about Ken or commented about Ken wanted to paraphrase by saying "Yeah, he's a great guy, but . . . " Because he didn't get a single vote.

He didn't get much love from the editors either. We only heard him mention his daughter a couple of times, as opposed to the nearly incessant references Adam made to his mother. We heard everyone discussing Jay and David and Taylor; the few comments that were made about Ken were typically indifferent. He just wasn't much of a presence this season and I never got a sense he had much personality frankly. I think it's easy to interpret his lack of personality as shyness or awkwardness, but I just saw lack of personality.

Ken mentioned he had a lot of tics.  I don't recall seeing any, so I'm wondering if Ken was highly edited to keep the most obvious tics out.  They obviously planned Ken for eye candy, so they wouldn't want him "turning people off" with his tics (their possible opinion, not mine).  Tics can be very off putting for shallow people, and I doubt Ken was explaining himself.  With his social awkwardness and tics, I find it plausible that he was immediately dismissed by everyone but David, and later Hannah.  There was a young woman on another reality show who recently came out with the fact that she has Tourettes.  That had been cut out of her editing, and the audience found her very annoying because they didn't realize she couldn't control certain movements.

So at this point, I'm not willing to dismiss Ken as lacking in personality, or trust the jury's (excepting a select few) opinion of him.  And it has nothing to do with his looks - I wasn't enraptured like some.

[SlackerInc]

12 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Watching the finale was unique for me last night.  I live in AZ, and I always peek online to see who's going to win, because I love to watch how it all develops when I know the ending.

That's unimaginable to me, but hey: whatever floats your boat.  Would you prefer to know the winner at the beginning of the season if you could?

9 hours ago, laurakaye said:

 I too am very surprised that Ken didn't get any votes.  Adam said something to the effect that Ken's style of play might have won him the game in the early seasons of the show, but Survivor has "evolved" since then.  I don't really get how loyalty, providing, and winning crucial immunity challenges doesn't add up to a couple of votes.

I was a big defender of Ken's (and not as "eye candy": I am not attracted to men, not that there's anything wrong with it of course) right up until the debacle with Will.  I would like to think that ridiculous tantrum in and of itself disqualified him from any jury votes.

8 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I thought it was crazy there was an idol that late, too.  And that they seemed to know there was.  Is that at all usual?  Or does the show tell them?  

 

I don't know why you say "they seemed to know there was".  David specifically said (more than once, I thought) that he didn't think there would be any hidden this late.

8 hours ago, Negritude said:

I don't remember how much Hatch fished or chopped wood, but he damn sure wasn't some stoic, loyal "provider."

I know it's obnoxious, but I'm gonna have to "actually..." you on that one.  That was one of the central parts of his strategy: being the "provider" who caught all the fish for everyone (and don't forget, there weren't as many food rewards then).  Even without food rewards, I don't think this would work today, but it was powerful for him then.

[gator12]

Listening to Stephen Fishback and Sophie Clarke (South Pacific Winner) podcast/YouTube, I agree with them with what they say about Jury management. One has to play to what the Jury wants.

Edited December 16, 2016 by gator12

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

I don't know why you say "they seemed to know there was".  David specifically said (more than once, I thought) that he didn't think there would be any hidden this late.

I thought so only because they were looking.  And because David bothered making one, so he must've known they'd be looking.  I didn't think there was any reason for him to even bother planting a fake until people said it stopped Jay from looking more.  I can see if he'd pretended it was his to deflect votes, or offered to give it to someone as a show of faith or something.  But it kind of felt like how Bob's fake was played... simply to humiliate Randy on the way out.  

[JenMcSnark]

Just watching the final tribal now.  

I can't stand Adam.

I can't stand Brett.

They are both self-absorbed assholes to me. And the way Adam talked over Hannah and was an overall jerk to her made me hate him forever.  The only way he could have won was with his sob-story.  And I can't help but feel that this was more a decision that HE wanted to go on Survivor, not what his mother wanted, and he thought it was more important than being there for her treatments and possible last days.  Of course, as a mother, she would have said she wanted him to go live his dream.  I'm sure in his mind he justifies it to himself as doing what she would have wanted him to do.  Because he's a self-absorbed asshole.

I think both Ken and Hannah played better games than Adam.  But I do think Ken made a boneheaded move when he voted David off.  I think he could have beaten David.  But he definitely lost a couple votes in my mind, even though he gained Will's respect. 

Like others have said, I hate that Adam won this by a sympathy vote.  I would have preferred that Jay won.  And that surprises the hell out of me.

Edited to add:  I can't believe that Hannah didn't stand up for herself that Adam DIDN'T even go to Ken.  He relied on the very woman that he's treating so disdainfully at this tribal.  I'm glad Ken did try to interject, but Chris obviously didn't believe him.  

Edited December 16, 2016 by JenMcSnark
Hannah. And she's only one woman. Not more.

[AZChristian]

39 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

That's unimaginable to me, but hey: whatever floats your boat.  Would you prefer to know the winner at the beginning of the season if you could?

Yep.  I've often sought out spoilers on shows like The British Baking Company, and knew weeks in advance who the winner was going to be.  Hubby doesn't want to know, and I honor his request not to tell him.  I just love watching the editing . . . like the inevitable, "I've got this in the bag" comment from the next person to be eliminated.  

I also often go to see movies twice, especially if there's an interesting unexpected twist at the end.  I love watching it the second time, so that I can pick up hints that I missed the first time.  Recent movies that I've seen twice . . . "The Accountant" (Ben Affleck) and "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them."

It floats my boat!

Edited December 16, 2016 by AZChristian

[askepticoptimist]

I have no idea where all the Hannah respect is coming from here.  From the season I watched, I have the same view all the jury members had: she played a kooky almost scatterbrained game where she was in a position to influence lots of decisions, but the end results often made little to no strategic sense (such as saving David at the 5-person vote AND the 7-person vote AND the 10-person vote).  I remember multiple times over the course of the season being amazingly frustrated when the better players in the game would try to get a coalition together to take out the power players of the game (like Zeke and David), just to have Hannah derail it and vote off some nobody like Sunday.    Hell, the only reason they went to rocks is because Hannah refused to get on board with taking out David.  Another one of her plays was leaving the power couple of Figgy/Taylor in the game in Episode 2, taking out a nobody instead (a move that boggled both Zeke and Adam).   It was another braindead move that anybody who has watched the show knows you never do: never leave power couples in the game, especially in small tribes.  Adam had the correct play trying to split up the couple, but couldn't get the numbers.

Later in the game, from what I saw, David pretty much ran the show and Hannah/Ken protected him.  Adam was constantly trying to make moves to target strategic threats, but could never get the numbers.  Bret had a similar experience in the endgame, where he exhibited exasperation that so many strong players were allowed to go as far into the game as they did with no one willing to vote for them.  Carrying David to final 4 was downright insane...that "strategic" move alone should literally disqualify you for a million dollars as to how ungodly stupid it was. 

And that's why the jurors viewed Hannah the way they did.  Her decisions that mattered (such as aforementioned Episodes 2, 11, 13, and 14) were logical errors.  She kept the best players in the game, never tried to flush idols or get rid of players with idols, kept power couples in the game...she basically was the strategic "anti-survivor".  I've rarely if ever seen someone win this game willfully carrying the best players to the end.  It's simply not a good strategy.  Adam, despite his failures in getting traction with his plans was logically sound...he was targeting real threats in the game: ringleaders, people capable of winning challenges, strategic players, people with idols (at least to attempt to flush it). 

Worst of all, Hannah constantly positioned herself as the "swing vote" with other people (such as David or Zeke) earning the credit for moves.  You earn credit in this game by spearheading decisions to take out the best, not by derailing better players that are trying to make those moves and using your numbers to take out goats.  She was incredibly lucky to be there in the final 3, largely because she had a strong threesome with David and Ken.

[gator12]

What really interesting to me is that Hannah interrupted Adam all throughout the FTC when he was answering questions that were ask of him, giving Hannah the credit for the Bret and Sunday votes. People on here though he was the jerk and taking the credit and Hannah was the poor bully victim,

As the winner of South Pacific said, you play to the jury. If they want you to get rid of David, get rid of David your opinion doesn't matter. She even bought her own example through her season. She didn't think much of Brandon but got rid of him b/c of jury management. 

One has to read the jury correctly and Hannah fail to do that. That is the most important part of the survivor game and she didn't do that, there for she didn't deserve to win.

She didn't even win IC or find an idol so I don't know why she was more deserving than Ken who had IC wins but a bad social/strategic game. And it sounds like Hannah also had a bad social game base on Zeke exist interview.

Edited December 16, 2016 by gator12

[Rachel RSL]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

That was the end of my Ken love (until last night) but his stock didn't fall far for most posters here.  Which is ironic, given how quickly most of the people here are to point the shamey finger of sexism.  I do think he gets a free pass for being a hot, sensitive man, to a large extent.  

I admit that I give him a free pass for some things, like that vest he wore on the reunion show. But, in terms of the game, his stock did fall very far for most of the Ken fans here after that.  Almost every post was about what a bonehead he was and that he had no shot of winning. But that didn't mean we couldn't still appreciate his unintentional humour and, yes, his good looks.  (Not sure what sexism has to do with this.  Even if people are being more forgiving towards Ken because they're attracted to him, that's not what sexism is.)

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

I know it's obnoxious, but I'm gonna have to "actually..." you on that one.  That was one of the central parts of his strategy: being the "provider" who caught all the fish for everyone (and don't forget, there weren't as many food rewards then).  Even without food rewards, I don't think this would work today, but it was powerful for him then.

You're right, the provider strategy was huge back then. The good old days when, instead of a reward feast every few days, they were so hungry, they ate rats.

[Wandering Snark]

And Hatch caught a freakin' shark! Albeit a small one, but comparative to the amount of food they had back then that was like the Flintstones ordering those ribs that tip over their car. 'Worked hard and got fish' was THE biggest 'resume point' to have back then. And sometimes failing at that got you voted out; hi Keith!!

I wouldn't want them to return to the rat eating getting naked for peanut butter days, but the feasts they have so often now really imho take the edge off the game. It might as well be tents set up in your local gymnasium with provided catering at this point.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Wandering Snark

[Dawn16]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Ken mentioned he had a lot of tics.  I don't recall seeing any, so I'm wondering if Ken was highly edited to keep the most obvious tics out.  They obviously planned Ken for eye candy, so they wouldn't want him "turning people off" with his tics (their possible opinion, not mine).  Tics can be very off putting for shallow people, and I doubt Ken was explaining himself.  With his social awkwardness and tics, I find it plausible that he was immediately dismissed by everyone but David, and later Hannah.  There was a young woman on another reality show who recently came out with the fact that she has Tourettes.  That had been cut out of her editing, and the audience found her very annoying because they didn't realize she couldn't control certain movements.

So at this point, I'm not willing to dismiss Ken as lacking in personality, or trust the jury's (excepting a select few) opinion of him.  And it has nothing to do with his looks - I wasn't enraptured like some.

He mentioned having "nervous tics" when he was younger.  They do often get less noticeable with age.  I would hope that they wouldn't edit out tics, unless he insisted on it.  Anything to help people be more understanding and accepting of tics would be appreciated. 

Just being an introvert and socially awkward would be enough to make Ken very difficult to get to know, and his appearance doesn't fit the stereotype of a sympathetically shy, awkward person, so I imagine many people had a hard time figuring him out.   You can't judge an introvert's true personality based on how they seem on a TV show, or how they seem to a bunch of strangers they're stuck spending every waking moment with, which is basically torture to an extreme introvert.  I have a feeling he's bad at reading social cues, which can be annoying to some people, even Hannah.  OTOH, that Will test was pretty stupid and not deserving of a million dollars, even though he did play at the end instead of taking David. 

The majority of the players that we got to know this season were fascinating, decent people, who were also actually playing the game.   I'm a sucker for the awkward, neurotic person learns to thrive storyline, which we had in spades this season.  (But not Zeke.  That was a stretch.)   Even Jay turned out to be interesting and likable, and I was sure I would hate him.   I know it's a sob story, but I'm still glad Adam won, even though I'm still waiting for a nerdy girl winner after last year.   Can TPTB please see that nasty and/or crazy people are not necessary to have an entertaining season?  And neither are "all stars"?

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

(Not sure what sexism has to do with this.  Even if people are being more forgiving towards Ken because they're attracted to him, that's not what sexism is.)

It's giving someone preferential treatment based on irrelevant factors, which is what the supposedly sexist and racist players are accused of.  

There was much less backlash here than I expected, especially early in the threads.  

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, Dawn16 said:

Can TPTB please see that nasty and/or crazy people are not necessary to have an entertaining season?  And neither are "all stars"?

One would hope that since they already did have "Game Changers" planned this "lesson" could still be learned/take shape the season after next... but I also don't want to swing to where this is shock group therapy where everyone has assorted neurosis. But then I've never been a fan of these stunt/trick castings like all-stars etc. The less Survivor becomes MTV's Challenge the better and inviting someone back four times is blurring that line.

[pamplemousse]

5 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think that we, including myself, TOTALLY see Ken through rose-coloured glasses because of his looks.  If someone else had Ken's personality but not as blindingly handsome looks there's no way he'd get all of the love that Ken gets here.  Just my opinion.  People are very poetic when it comes to their love for Ken.  I admit it. I think he looks like a God. He's gorgeous.  I didn't fall "in love" with him, like I did Ozzy in Cook, but I mean, he's gorgeous.  

There's studies that show that people who are viewed as attractive are treated differently than "non" or "lesser" attractive people, so I don't think that the idea should be such a surprise.

Meanwhile, I see nothing OFFENSIVE about Ken.  Personally, we weren't shown it.  There's obviously some people here, in the audience, and on the island that find him pompous, pretentious, blah blah.  Nah.  I really don't.  I might have found him really boring or not 'my type of person I could converse with' on the island, (I honestly am not sure either way, based on the editing), but none of that offends me in the least.  I wouldn't go so far as to call him pompous.  His deep voice carries a gravitas that I don't think he necessarily feels when speaking.  I think he just has a very strong, unique demeanor that people aren't used to, which some read as pretentious or pompous.  Ken is singularly himself -- and from afar I find it kind of interesting.  I have no idea what I'd think on the island.  Honestly, we're the same age, but Ken and I couldn't seem more different.  So I'd probably find him interesting.  People always think I'm younger than I am, and I proudly call myself a Millennial (I don't want to be old. I never wanted to be older. I'm a young soul.).  To me, he's "weird" (not in a bad way).

The scene where Will is so frustrated with him?  It's funny to me.  Will I find kind of annoying personally.  I'd like to see MORE scenes like that, to get better grips on BOTH's personalities.  I find that stuff interesting.  We didn't get to see enough of Ken to see why Will would find him THAT frustrating, and we didn't see enough of Will to see why he thinks he's NOT frustrating (IMO).  So the scene is funny.  They could equally be very annoying.  I wouldn't know.  Ken doesn't fill up space with his voice.  He waits for his moments and then reflects.  I don't find that annoying.  It's hard to find quiet, thoughtful people annoying.

Yeah, he seems like a legitimate good guy. Maybe I give him a little too much credit for not being a shitheel with the way he looks when his looks might make it easier to get away with it, but sorry not everyone who likes him wants to secretly (or not-so-secretly) f--k him.

I think it's laughable to put stock in Will's petulant whining. Plenty of people who played the game alongside him have said that Ken is a nice person. So Will's right and they're all wrong, ok. Ken is serious, IMO, not pompous. If supposedly everyone is blinded by their out-of-control hormones over Ken, I think there's definitely also quite a few who took too many pulls of their extra-large pint of haterade for him and are coming across a bit nonsensically drunk on it (I felt the same about some of the over-the-top flak that Michaela got around here, it became a little too "Scary black woman is sooo scary" for my taste).

[Ms Blue Jay]

I wasn't implying that people who see Ken through 'rose coloured glasses' want to "Fuck" him.  I was implying that attractive people, male, female, no matter what your sexuality, are often seen in a positive light.  Hollywood movies are filled with good-looking people; studios have this idea it makes the movie-going experience more pleasant. Good-looking people are used to sell products.  Advertisers have this idea they make you want to buy things.

Equating people's dislike (dislike? I wouldn't even go that far. Some people think he's pompous) with some people's (irrational IMO) fear of Michaela is also not something I'll cosign.  I think they're both judged by some by their looks - but in polar opposite ways.

Anyone can like Ken and I'm not judging anyone for it.  I like Ken, he's all right.  Maybe some people would totally like Ken just as much if he was a troll!  Who knows..........

Edited December 16, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

4 hours ago, askepticoptimist said:

Another one of her plays was leaving the power couple of Figgy/Taylor in the game in Episode 2, taking out a nobody instead (a move that boggled both Zeke and Adam).   It was another braindead move that anybody who has watched the show knows you never do: never leave power couples in the game, especially in small tribes.  Adam had the correct play trying to split up the couple, but couldn't get the numbers.

Later in the game, from what I saw, David pretty much ran the show and Hannah/Ken protected him.  Adam was constantly trying to make moves to target strategic threats, but could never get the numbers. 

No opinion on Hannah VS Adam post-merge since I didn't see it, but I want to push back on this part a bit.  If you "can't get the numbers" you are ipso facto bad at Survivor.  Getting the numbers is the entire game.  Ideas are nice, but an idea you can't actually perform is literally worthless.  Nobody will vote with you?  Boo hoo.  Play better.

Getting rid of so-called "power couples" is an idea, which does not hold much merit to me (and these were huge tribes), but it doesn't matter if it does because they couldn't do it.  Voting out the "nobody" (Mari, who was the actual leader of the anti-Figtails group) was another idea; Michelle (not Hannah, Hannah's vote was irrelevant, and therefore good for her to join the majority, since it was too late for her to do anything else) did the work to get the votes and so it happened.  Zeke and Adam were left to cry on the sand because they didn't get the job done.  Since you like ideas, you should appreciate that Hannah, too, was in on the idea to vote out Figgy, and should get exactly as much credit for that non-event as Adam, which is none, since even if it had happened, it wouldn't have been her doing but Mari's.

[riley702]

14 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I noticed that Jay drew something on his ballot when he voted for Ken and I was like: "Is that a penis?"  But maybe it was a middle finger lol. In any case, I think he's the culprit.

 

13 hours ago, Special K said:

One looked like a head with a crown, and one looked like one of those hanging bats, maybe?

That thing's a veritable Rorschach test! I thought it looked like either an "M" or two figures leaning toward each other. Also, did we ever see it again after Jay was voted out? For some reason, I thought it was Hannah. But I've already deleted it, and I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of watching it on Xfinity OnDemand since you can't fast-forward to the relevant bits.

Edited December 16, 2016 by riley702

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, gator12 said:

What really interesting to me is that Hannah interrupted Adam all throughout the FTC when he was answering questions that were ask of him,

Hannah continuously interrupted every person she talked to throughout the game.  She interrupted so much that Jeff called her out for it  at tribal, saying that she was even interrupting him while he was trying to give her a big compliment.  She interrupted Ken while the two were sitting together, watching the sunset , to tell him he had already told her something.  I think she's a sweet person, but I can not be around someone who never lets anyone complete a sentence. I think that alone would have been her demise in some other seasons.  This season had smart players who wouldn't vote someone out, however annoying, unless she/he was a threat to their game, and that got her to final three, but gave her no chance to win, because we just aren't conditioned to appreciate the intelligence of someone who makes us want to pull our own hair out.

[NutMeg]

I once read or heard something that goes like this: if you're not sure of the outcome you want, toss a coin; before it falls down, you'll know. 

Well, that was me after David was voted out. With both he and Jay gone, I realised I seriously wanted Hannah to win. And if not her, well, Ken could do, I guessed. I thought I would have been happy with any winner, but in that second I knew I would only be happy with Hannah, ok but meh with Ken, and displeased with Adam. And there it went...

I was so proud of Hannah articulating and owing her game at FTC and NOT willing to let Adam take credit for alliances / switching of alliances, convincing people, etc., that, as I saw in the game, were hers and not his (and really, TBTB were not going to show her in a better light than the winner on purpose, were they?). She's the one who kept Adam on track when he was freaking out, the one who read people, the one who worked things out in the best way for both of them. She was not a goat. Her game play and image on the jury bitterly reminded me of Amanda/Todd/China. I never saw misogyny in the cast until FTC. Maybe it wasn't that, but the way they seemed to all come with preconceived notions (hello, Chris, I hope you felt differently and humbled while watching the season, because that conviction of yours came out of nowhere, buddy) left me with a sour taste. Which is too bad, because I really, really enjoyed this season, up to the winner reveal. 

It's not that I don't like Adam as such, it's that he did way less to win than the jury thought and than he took credit for. So yeah, very reminiscent of China's Todd for me.

I'm also uncomfortable with sob stories on reality shows. I understand where Adam was coming for and I don't judge him or fault him for his choices in that regard. But I do side eye TPTB. Because I don't watch Survivor for personal stories other than growth IN THE GAME. I've had my lot of sob stories over the years, and have witnessed others around me, and that's tough enough, thank you. When I watch Survivor, I'm watching a game. If I was watching a tennis tournament, I'd take Wawrinka winning over Murray in a well-won game, not because he told the judges beforehand of some personal story that got them weepy so that their vision was less sharp and they missed a couple of faults. I don't even think it was intentional. But for me the result is still unsatisfying because of it.

[NutMeg]

oh, and one other thing I meant to write: no surprise at all Jeff liked Bret/Zeke scene so much, it was the best illustration he could find for the theme he was so keen on to describe this season :) 

[gator12]

59 minutes ago, NutMeg said:

Adam take credit for alliances / switching of alliances, convincing people, etc.,

I watch the FTC, he didn't try to take credit for anything Hannah did, in fact he correctly read the jury and said yeah Bret and Sunday was all Hannah idea I though it was dumb, I'll explain that later. Hannah should have read the room and try not to be so defensive to things that everyone in the jury though was dumb.

I guess she did eventually read the room, that why she was quiet later on because on her exist interview she said she figure out pretty quickly during the FTC that she lost.

People aren't going to vote for you if they though your move was stupid. 

Sophie Clarke said you have to read the jury and play to the jury. Your idea doesn't matter if you don't gave the jury what they want (I.E David out as soon as possible). And Sophie would know she won in the season against two guys and Brandon.  She read and played that jury beautifully and Hannah couldn't read the room at all

[gator12]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Hannah continuously interrupted every person she talked to throughout the game.  She interrupted so much that Jeff called her out for it  at tribal, saying that she was even interrupting him while he was trying to give her a big compliment.  She interrupted Ken while the two were sitting together, watching the sunset , to tell him he had already told her something.  I think she's a sweet person, but I can not be around someone who never lets anyone complete a sentence. I think that alone would have been her demise in some other seasons.  This season had smart players who wouldn't vote someone out, however annoying, unless she/he was a threat to their game, and that got her to final three, but gave her no chance to win, because we just aren't conditioned to appreciate the intelligence of someone who makes us want to pull our own hair out.

She does continuously do this, it was hilarious when she interrupted Jeff.

I'm just dumbfound that Adam is the jerk in this scenario and people are claiming he was taking credit  when he was like nah that was all Hannah, meanwhile Hannah kept on speaking over him every 4 words.

One mistake she made during the FTC when explaining the Sunday and Bret move wasn't even at the FTC, it was mistakes from the past TC. Adam and others are making arguments to get rid of David. The jury wants David gone now, so they are loving anyone who is wanting to get rid of David. So when David finally go, who to they gave credit to? The last person left on the game who has been on the get rid of David train. Also Hannah position herself as a goat who got rid of all the other goat so she could be in the final 3. That just doesn't work.

My advice to all future players is to go and listen to Sophie Clarke and Stephen Fishback when they said to play to the jury and that your opinion and ideas don't matter if you don't. Hannah cannot read the room so maybe she though she was playing to the jury. She should have figure out she lost when the jury went crazy when Bret was voted out.

[gator12]

Reading the exist interview that David, Jay and Bret did together. We could have had a sole survivor Sunday. The way they talk about anyone could have sat in Adams seat next to Ken and Hannah and would have won.

[Sarahsmile416]

10 minutes ago, gator12 said:

Reading the exist interview that David, Jay and Bret did together. We could have had a sole survivor Sunday. The way they talk about anyone could have sat in Adams seat next to Ken and Hannah and would have won.

Well then that speaks less of the jury than anything else. 

As a jury, they would seriously vote for Sunday over Ken or Hannah? Really? I find that difficult to believe and if so, my regard for each of them goes way down (and with Bret it was pretty low to begin with)

Edited December 16, 2016 by Sarahsmile416