S01.E03: The Bridge

[fastiller]

7 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

 Wooooowwwwwwww (Flavor Flav voice).  This shit just keeps getting crazier.  I really felt for Mary and her husband.  And I do believe that Mike R's loud sob was real.  It has to hurt like hell to be disconnected from her own children, brothers, sisters, etc.  I cannot even imagine. 

<snip>

I think that it has to hurt him to be disconnected from his family, and I also think he hurts because he was complicit in disconnecting other families when he was a high-falutin' muckety-muck.  And I do understand your point @lordonia - he does still seem a bit imperious.  Perhaps taking this journey with LR will change that.

[fifty8th]

Just watched the episode and it was painful to watch, not in a bad way like it was horrible TV, but the lady's story and emotion was so raw, it makes me so angry.

[fifty8th]

Was this the first episode where the church did not send letters to discredit the person the episode is about (Mary)? I haven't read the letters from all the episodes just glanced for the first time today but they trashed the subject of the first episode (Amy Scobee). I wonder if the church's tactics are changing. Can we start a topic about the "Aftermath Letters?"

Edited December 16, 2016 by fifty8th

[spiderpig]

1 hour ago, mbaywife123 said:

My goodness there is so much info on the internet which is why the evil tiny troll dictator dosn't want any back talk about HIS "short" comings

Miscavige, burn in your own personal volcano.

Isn't he a nasty little shit?  His own father (who brought him into the cult) is dumbfounded over the creep's conduct.

I'm looking forward to next week's episode and hope Leah goes after Napoleon Jr. big time.  There are countless jaw-dropping stories about CO$, but one of them that sticks in my mind is that after Tommy's over-the-top dream wedding to Katie-bot, Davy accompanied them on their honeymoon.

Say WHAT?

[TaraS1]

21 hours ago, Lizzing said:

My big take away from this episode is that there's no way I could have ever hacked it as a Scientologist if I had to be in meetings for twelve hours straight for weeks on end, and read all that crap.  I'm way too lazy for the meetings and LRH is a horrible writer, so the first book would be tossed in the donation pile probably by the time I got to page 3.

Yeah, when Leah said it was literally seven days a week??  I can barely drag myself out of bed for church on Sunday mornings!

13 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

At what level do you have to be before the let you read the Sooper Seekrit Creation theory?  I cannot believe that everyone isn't like Paul Haggis who, after attaining the level and reading Hubbards' "XENU and the Planet of Exploding Volcanoes" Amazing Story, was worried that if you came away believing that balderdash, the Church would declare you insane and kick you out.  

That's my favorite part of Paul Haggis's story - that he went in and read the "secret" of Xenu and thought they were using it to test him to see if he'd be crazy enough to believe it!

[Sherrie]

For those of you who would like to hear more about COS, there is a podcast that will blow your mind. I listen through the Podcast app. The podcast is called Surviving Scientology Radio. It will blow your mind. 

'Here are a couple web pages that are good to look through.

Tony Ortega's Web Site

Operation Clambake

This is my first post, so hello everyone. 

[spiderpig]

8 minutes ago, Sherrie said:

For those of you who would like to hear more about COS, there is a podcast that will blow your mind. I listen through the Podcast app. The podcast is called Surviving Scientology Radio. It will blow your mind. 

'Here are a couple web pages that are good to look through.

Tony Ortega's Web Site

Operation Clambake

This is my first post, so hello everyone. 

Hi and welcome!!!

[jrlr]

28 minutes ago, Sherrie said:

For those of you who would like to hear more about COS, there is a podcast that will blow your mind. I listen through the Podcast app. The podcast is called Surviving Scientology Radio. It will blow your mind. 

'Here are a couple web pages that are good to look through.

Tony Ortega's Web Site

Operation Clambake

This is my first post, so hello everyone. 

Welcome!

[juliet73]

2 hours ago, lordonia said:

They have what they call "social betterment" programs:

The Way to Happiness
Applied Scholastics
Criminon
Narconon
The Truth About Drugs
United for Human Rights
Citizens Commission for Human Rights (CCHR)

The above groups are examined in more detail by The Scientology Money Project and of course good old Tony Ortega has his take.

Aren't these all Scientology based/fronted organizations?  So they aren't helping other groups, they are just helping themselves.  I just read Leah's book and she mentioned that if she wanted to donate to a cause like the Red Cross, she would have to make the donation to Scientology and they in turn give the money to the Red Cross.  I'll bet Tom Cruise's eternal life that not one cent ever made it the Red Cross!!

[mbaywife123]

4 hours ago, Sherrie said:

For those of you who would like to hear more about COS, there is a podcast that will blow your mind. I listen through the Podcast app. The podcast is called Surviving Scientology Radio. It will blow your mind. 

'Here are a couple web pages that are good to look through.

Tony Ortega's Web Site

Operation Clambake

This is my first post, so hello everyone. 

Welcome!

Also, don't worry you will not have pay for posting your opinions or be "audited". HAHA!

[mbaywife123]

Mr. Mbay just watched this epi with me (re-watch for me) and asked "WTH is wrong these people?"

 I explained to him that many of them (current &'ex-members) have been brainwashed by this CULT since they were children brought or born into this CULT and he said" that is some sick and twisted shit". He also said that Tom Cruise and Miscavige are both evil, sick, twisted little trolls!

[Zanne]

There is a Scientology center near the Pantages in LA. My parents had dropped me off to see a show many a year ago and they were walking around, having lunch, window shopping and people watching. It was a warm day and my mom wanted to sit down. Every bench on the street had a homeless person or tourist on it (according to my mother's report) - all except one. The bench in front of the Scientology center was clear. This wasn't the big church that's in LA, but one of the smaller centers. She said that as they sat there for a while a couple people came out in suits to stand by the door and were eying them. Finally, she had to go to the bathroom, so she went into the Center to ask to use their restroom. A woman latched onto her immediately and talked to her the entire way to the bathroom. She was waiting outside the door when my mom came out to walk her back. My mom will talk to anyone about everything, which can be a problem. The woman asked about family and my mom mentioned she was waiting for her daughter. Oh, what does your daughter do? She's a special education teacher. Really? L. Ron Hubbard was a teacher, too. Maybe you'd all like to learn a little more about him and his teaching ideas?  My mom finally managed to make it to the front door and escape. She's a naive thing, and even she commented how weird it was that they took her to the restroom farthest away from the doors (there was a closer one they said was out of order), and managed to work Scientology into every part of this "casual" conversation, and were waiting for her right outside the bathroom door like she couldn't be without an escort in the building.  I told her if she found herself in that situation again, it was better to buy an $8 soda at one of the restaurants rather than go into that place.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Zanne
spelling

[spiderpig]

2 minutes ago, Zanne said:

There is a Scientology center near the Pantages in LA. My parents had dropped me off to see a show many a year ago and they were walking around, having lunch, window shopping and people watching. It was a warm day and my mom wanted to sit down. Every bench on the street had a homeless person or tourist on it (according to my mother's report) - all except one. The bench in from the the Scientology center was clear. This wasn't the big church that's in LA, but one of the smaller centers. She said that as they sat there for a while a couple people came out in suits to stand by the door and were eying them. Finally, she had to go to the bathroom, so she went into the Center to ask to use their restroom. A woman latched onto her immediately and talked to her the entire way to the bathroom. She was waiting outside the door when my mom came out to walk her back. My mom will talk to anyone about everything, which can be a problem. The woman asked about family and my mom mentioned she was waiting for her daughter. Oh, what does your daughter do? She's a special education teacher. Really? L. Ron Hubbard was a teacher, too. Maybe you'd all like to learn a little more about him and his teaching ideas?  My mom finally managed to make it to the front door and escape. She's a naive thing, and even she commented how weird it was that they took her to the restroom farthest away from the doors (there was a closer one they said was out of order), and managed to work Scientology into every part of this "casual" conversation, and were waiting for her right outside the bathroom door like she couldn't be without an escort in the building.  I told her if she found herself in that situation again, it was better to buy an $8 soda at one of the restaurants rather than go into that place.

The creepiness factor goes up to 11...

[Ms Lark]

On 12/17/2016 at 11:07 AM, Almost 3000 said:

COS sends sets of their books to libraries every couple of years. They always end up in our Friends bookstore and sell for a dollar and if they sit for to long they end up on the 10c cart.

Us, too. We got leather-bound, gilt-edged full sets in several boxes. ($$$$) Word was Tom Cruise paid for them. We didn't even try to sell them at our Friends' sales (that crap don't sell), but sent them directly to the book chipper (yes, that's a thing for old worn-out books) with glee.

[Diane Mars]

My answers in bold in the part of your post I quoted :)
 

On 18/12/2016 at 3:49 AM, Kostgard said:

...My question here is when do people's BS detector go off? When do they look around and go, "I'm OT VI now. I'm supposed to be able to move objects with my mind. Why can't I do that?"
-> because they've done something wrong. And the worst it that they will share that in auditing and they'll have to redo some courses. Never forget that every scientologist is responsible of his "cause"...

Or "This is the third time they made me retake a class because they changed/corrected stuff. Damn! Get your shit together, Scientology!"
->No, words and phrasing are essential. And they hope that the correction will help them to get to level they want to reach and explain maybe the reason why they don't get the "promised" thing they should have gotten at the new level.... See above, both work together ;)

Jason Beghe said his wake up call was a car accident - he was "Clear" and Clears don't get into car accidents because they can [supposedly] anticipate the actions of others and he should have seen the other car coming in time to avoid it. But...seriously? It took a car accident for him to really see that he didn't actually have superpowers?
-> see my first answer

 

On another topic, is anybody interested in creating à subject where discussing of our own experiences or knowledge, but not episode related ?

(for instance, I worked for a recruiting agency and it was a part of WISE* organisation, which is one of the profit center of CO$, all the staff -a part of mine- was scientologist, my boss was an OTIV, his wife... OTVIII. He was declared SP, etc. etc.... And it was 18months after LRH passed away. I had a full access to the OTVIII documents, policies, etc... I've got a quite good knowledge of all that shitty stuff, and I think I could answer a lot of questions)

*= World Institute of Scientology Enterprises

ETA :
The "problem", with the "Dianetics", is that the really first steps work ! It's common sense, explained with other words, but it works ! The principle of their "tone scale", to read from bottom to top, is quite realistic (and useful) too (and the scientologists use it quite often, in like : "stop being ono-one (1.1) to me !" or : "you want to sell ? Be tone 40 !")

Another example : if you EVER have to pass THIS TEST for any reason, NEVER answer "YES" to the question #4 and #194. You'll be instantly declated "PTS", which means "Potential Trouble Source".... And as they never change anything, I'm 99.9% sure that those are still the same questions and the same question# ANOTHER ETA : Ho, I found a page where they explain it well, give the correct answers to give to it and even mentions U-Man, the company I was working for : http://www.xenu.net/archive/oca/

Edited December 19, 2016 by Diane Mars
add info

[laurakaye]

On 12/17/2016 at 9:49 PM, Kostgard said:

My question here is when do people's BS detector go off? When do they look around and go, "I'm OT VI now. I'm supposed to be able to move objects with my mind. Why can't I do that?" Or "This is the third time they made me retake a class because they changed/corrected stuff. Damn! Get your shit together, Scientology!"

This is what I wanted to hear more of from Mary Kahn, who had gone as high as she could go.  I wanted to know from her what was going through her mind when she realized she didn't have the powers that come with being an OT VIII - and also, I'd love to hear more about how she got to that level in the first place.

Maybe this has been covered in Leah's tweets, but how on earth did she balance being on a tv show with studying for the COS?  Or did she get some leeway because she was a celebrity?  

I love Leah.  I want to go clothes shopping with her because she'd be all, "are you freaking kidding me with that skirt?  That looks ridiculous, take it off.  Now give me a hug and let's go get some coffee."  Loved her in KOQ, loved her on The Talk.  That said, I sincerely hope she escapes any serious retribution from anyone in the COS for doing this amazing and informative show.  I mean, even Tom Cruise...that dude can be super crazy-eyed and intimidating.  I give her so much credit for going up against Miscavige and Cruise.

[MichaelaRae]

I cannot get enough of this show. Even though I've read about everything I can get my hands on about this cult, I am hooked. Reading about people's experiences is one thing - watching it on film? Really painful and eye-opening. 

Count me among those who believe Mike Rinder's outburst was real - it shocked me and made ME cry (I was already leaking tears due to poor Mary's story). You know who struck me as off? Mary's husband. Even as she's crying, he barely touched her. He was smiling oddly. He was the one not actually wiping tears with a tissue. I'm not going to say that means he's awful...I can only imagine how much that cult has deadened anyone's abilities to express emotion in a relatable way. (Which may also be why Mike Rinder comes across to some as smug or cold. I expect he's spent the majority of his life hiding every emotion he ever felt. That's a hard habit to break. And I think he's deeply, painfully ashamed of what he did in service to this cult.)

I've always liked Leah despite her $cientology (I had long ago stopped watching Travolta and Kirstie Allie and Cruise due to their level of Scientology crazy, but Leah seemed less crazy than them somehow). Now I like her even more. For whatever reasons she's doing it, I admire her stating "Hey, I helped promote this church and get other people into it. The least I can do now is try to expose it."

Edited December 19, 2016 by MichaelaRae

[WInterfalls]

Ok I finished Jenna's book this weekend and seeing as there are a few others here who have read it or are reading I am really interested in what everyone thought.  I thought it was amazing. Her life is fascinating. I honestly could not imagine all that she went through.  

[ButterQueen]

On 12/14/2016 at 7:52 PM, greekmom said:

This was a great episode. The whole cult (as other cults) fascinates me.  Especially how people get sucked in the first place and then try to fight their way out.

The woman they featured, who attained OT VIII  - they didn't say if she had a moment of WTF when they showed her the sacred documents ala Paul Haggis.  I'm shocked she attained the highest level.  There are very few of them from what I understand. 

I still would like to know more about the kids that are in the cult.  Their lack of education. Lack of skills of how they deal with sp people and/or outsiders of their faith.  Also, about the kids of famous $cientologiests. 

I find Katie Holme's Dad a hero for getting Katie and Suri away from Tom, all secretly.  I cannot imagine how scared Katie was.

I love Leah for doing this.

[spiderpig]

23 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

Ok I finished Jenna's book this weekend and seeing as there are a few others here who have read it or are reading I am really interested in what everyone thought.  I thought it was amazing. Her life is fascinating. I honestly could not imagine all that she went through.  

I read Jenna's book a couple of years ago and will have to reread.  I found her revelations about Uncle David particularly scary - he is truly a maniac.

Pair this book with DM's father Ron Miscavige's (he's on the next ep) book "Ruthless" and you have a picture of an uncontrollable tyrant.

[WInterfalls]

53 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

I read Jenna's book a couple of years ago and will have to reread.  I found her revelations about Uncle David particularly scary - he is truly a maniac.

Pair this book with DM's father Ron Miscavige's (he's on the next ep) book "Ruthless" and you have a picture of an uncontrollable tyrant.

I haven't read "Ruthless" yet but I have read "Going Clear" and "Trouble Maker" We should start a thread for all the CO$ tell all books out there.  

[Brattinella]

I have only read Trouble Maker, and am looking forward to the others!  I devoured Trouble Maker in one sitting.

[WInterfalls]

44 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

I have only read Trouble Maker, and am looking forward to the others!  I devoured Trouble Maker in one sitting.

Trouble Maker is good because of Leah's personality. Jenna's book focuses more on her life and the inner workings of the Sea Org. Going Clear is just a relentlessly researched and in depth look at all of Scientology.  As much as I loved Going Clear it is not as entertaining as the other two because it's more of a just the facts type of book.  

[EVS]

I mentioned this in another thread (or maybe it was upthread here), but I am currently reading Tony Ortega's book, "The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How The Church of Scientology Tried to Destroy Paulette Cooper".  Paulette was a writer in the 1970s who wrote an article and then a book criticizing Scientology.  The "church" then went to unbelievable lengths to ruin her life. Even though I have read a lot about Scientology lately, these stories blew my mind. It also gets into LRH's life and how the "church" infiltrated governments around the world and organizations like the FBI. It isn't quite as fast a read as Leah's book. It sometimes gets a bit bogged down in details and it jumps around a bit too much for me, but it feels like you are reading a more in depth spy novel. (It's written in the third person.) I recommend it because it is very different from anything else I have read on the subject of Scientology. 

Eta: Apparently I mentioned it earlier in this thread. Sorry for the repeat, but since people were discussing books, I'll leave this second post. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by EVS

[green]

5 hours ago, EVS said:

I mentioned this in another thread (or maybe it was upthread here), but I am currently reading Tony Ortega's book, "The Unbreakable Miss Lovely: How The Church of Scientology Tried to Destroy Paulette Cooper".  Paulette was a writer in the 1970s who wrote an article and then a book criticizing Scientology.  The "church" then went to unbelievable lengths to ruin her life. Even though I have read a lot about Scientology lately, these stories blew my mind. It also gets into LRH's life and how the "church" infiltrated governments around the world and organizations like the FBI. It isn't quite as fast a read as Leah's book. It sometimes gets a bit bogged down in details and it jumps around a bit too much for me, but it feels like you are reading a more in depth spy novel. (It's written in the third person.) I recommend it because it is very different from anything else I have read on the subject of Scientology. 

Eta: Apparently I mentioned it earlier in this thread. Sorry for the repeat, but since people were discussing books, I'll leave this second post. 

She was interviewed at long length in the Bonus Episode tonight (Monday, December 19th).  All the details of what she went through being the first writer to really expose this group are beyond belief.  She is a real hero.

Edited December 20, 2016 by green

[EVS]

2 hours ago, green said:

She was interviewed at long length in the Bonus Episode tonight (Monday, December 19th).  All the details of what she went through being the first writer to really expose this group are beyond belief.  She is a real hero.

I didn't get a chance to watch the episode yet. I'm so glad to hear that she was interviewed!  Thanks for letting me know.  I'm looking forward to watching her interview.

[spiderpig]

1 hour ago, EVS said:

I didn't get a chance to watch the episode yet. I'm so glad to hear that she was interviewed!  Thanks for letting me know.  I'm looking forward to watching her interview.

If you can watch her account of what CO$ did to her and not want their empire torn down brick by brick - well, then, you're probably a brainwashed $cieno.

[SunnyBeBe]

The money is obviously at the center of this thing. I do wonder why some members don't speak out and protest about the unfairness when they reach the top of the Bridge and are told there was a mistake and they have to go back down, take some more classes, pay more money, work back up again......I think I would blow a gasket.  lol  I suppose that fear and intimidation prevents it.  Still......they must not have many attorneys.  I'd be be making some legal arguments to them about breach....lol.

I am now wondering if Scientology has a hold on these celeb members by maintaining certain secrets.  I've heard rumors for years, but, I wonder if this group, is holding these secrets as a means to hold the celebrity to their so called church. Maybe, they are not all that into Scientology, but have to say they are due to fear of having their secrets exposed. 

Based on what Leah said recently about alcohol.  Does anyone know if Tom C., John T. and Kirstie A. drink socially? 

[tabloidlover]

11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

,The money is obviously at the center of this thing. I do wonder why some members don't speak out and protest about the unfairness when they reach the top of the Bridge and are told there was a mistake and they have to go back down, take some more classes, pay more money, work back up again......I think I would blow a gasket.  lol  I suppose that fear and intimidation prevents it.  Still......they must not have many attorneys.  I'd be be making some legal arguments to them about breach....lol.

I am now wondering if Scientology has a hold on these celeb members by maintaining certain secrets.  I've heard rumors for years, but, I wonder if this group, is holding these secrets as a means to hold the celebrity to their so called church. Maybe, they are not all that into Scientology, but have to say they are due to fear of having their secrets exposed. 

Based on what Leah said recently about alcohol.  Does anyone know if Tom C., John T. and Kirstie A. drink socially? 

Cannot remember if I read it in Leah's book or if it was in an interview, but she did say that she knew Scientology would put all her dirty laundry out there once she decided to leave.  It was a price she was willing to pay in order to get her family out and to bring awareness (and hopefully justice) to this horrible cult.  I really admire her for not being intimidated by their tactics.  During last night's episode, she even showed some of the notes taken during her auditing sessions that Scientology had released.  Dirty tactics, and yet she is still practically screaming for them to BRING IT ON!   I truly believe she is their worst nightmare.

Edited December 20, 2016 by tabloidlover
grammar is important - especisally with regard to WORDs!

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, Leah really does seem to stand up to the possibility that they will come after her. I would be quite cautious, in light of what she knows.  Still, she's very blunt and challenges them.  I like how she said that viewers should go to the Scientology material that the church publishes and read that.  It's what the church says itself that is at issue.  She sure did find her voice. Man.....it seems to be her calling. 

[Guest]

A lot of this discussion would be better suited the the general Scientology thread or even the thread about high-profile Scientologists.  I'll be moving some posts; feel free to continue the fantastic discussions in those threads.

The bridge to those threads is.... oh wait, no.  No bridges here. :)

[spiderpig]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I am now wondering if Scientology has a hold on these celeb members by maintaining certain secrets.  I've heard rumors for years, but, I wonder if this group, is holding these secrets as a means to hold the celebrity to their so called church. Maybe, they are not all that into Scientology, but have to say they are due to fear of having their secrets exposed. 

Based on what Leah said recently about alcohol.  Does anyone know if Tom C., John T. and Kirstie A. drink socially? 

South Park hit Tommy and John T smack in the face with their famous "he won't come out of the closet" episode.

When these guys appeared on the scene 30+ years ago, sexual orientation was pretty much a career-killer.  Now (rightly), most people don't give a damn.  A few years ago Carrie Fisher blurted out "My feeling about John has always been that we know and we don’t care. Look, I’m sorry that he’s uncomfortable with it, and that’s all I can say. "  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Maybe this has been covered in Leah's tweets, but how on earth did she balance being on a tv show with studying for the COS?  Or did she get some leeway because she was a celebrity?  

I didn't get that either. The producer specifically asked her how anyone does this if they have a job and she just said "you figure it out." I wonder if she got special consideration because of her celebrity status or if she got "time off" to film the TV show. I mean, obviously she could not have devoted 24/7 of her life to the church because she was on a sitcom full time.

After this third episode my perception is that the church was at its peak in membership and power until the death of L. Ron Hubbard, and that under Miscavige they are collapsing. Going Clear and this docu-series have to be crippling them. It sounds like the only faithful members that still belong are those who were born into it and simply cannot get away from it because they are so dependent on the church. Only something like 25,000 members?

I love Leah Remini but the cynic in me can't help but wonder how much of doing this show is altruistic and how much is self-serving. Probably about 50/50 but that's fine with me. She's doing something important regardless of her reasons.

There was a tag on the end of this episode that said Mary's son denied he disconnected from his parents because the church made him. Seemingly, he didn't offer any other explanation for why he did disconnect from them.

Edited December 20, 2016 by iMonrey

[SunnyBeBe]

Yes, I would expect that Mary's son would deny the disconnect has anything to do with the church.  I would expect that they would require him to say that. 

[juliet73]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I didn't get that either. The producer specifically asked her how anyone does this if they have a job and she just said "you figure it out." I wonder if she got special consideration because of her celebrity status or if she got "time off" to film the TV show. I mean, obviously she could not have devoted 24/7 of her life to the church because she was on a sitcom full time.

 

She said in her book that she would immediately go to the "church" everyday after she was done on the set of King of Queens.  She mentioned she turned down many after work dinners, social engagements, etc because she HAD to be at the "church".  She also said when she was being reprimanded by the "church" about Tom and Katie's wedding,  it was during the hiatus of KofQ so she had a few months off and HAD to spend it in Clearwater.  

Edited December 21, 2016 by juliet73

[Wings]

On 12/19/2016 at 2:23 PM, ButterQueen said:

I find Katie Holme's Dad a hero for getting Katie and Suri away from Tom, all secretly.  I cannot imagine how scared Katie was.

I love Leah for doing this.

Yes. And his forethought to create that huge prenup. Their engagement was very short so he got right to work.  I would love to know the details of her escape.  I heard a helicopter was involved but who knows if that is true.  Given her rich and powerful dad maybe it was less dramatic.  I assume she was allowed to visit her parents. She was not living in a COS conclave.  She probably had guards though. 

Anyone know? 

[Stuffy]

I believe Katie and Suri were living in NYC while Katie was rehearsing or either staring in a play.  I also think Tom was out of the country filming. I don't know if it was as dramatic an escape as it was played out to be by the media.  Of course Katie was probably conspiring with her dad for awhile before it was official.  Tom really didn't stand a chance.  

I remember the pictures that came out of them right before the split because Katie looked miserable. Tom shouldn't have been surprised. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Stuffy

[laurakaye]

I cannot imagine how Katie handled all of this...having to speak to her parents in secret about leaving Tom Cruise, worrying about the repercussions to herself and her baby, knowing full well that because of Tom's power in the COS, she was probably being carefully monitored at all times.  How I would love to hear from Katie herself.  But at the same time, she's got her daughter to think about, and who knows what Tom and Miscavige might do if she talks.

I admit to having been weirdly fascinated by the TomKat marriage...the pictures of the two of them in People, Us, etc. were always interesting to me.  The body language usually fell along the lines of Tom being fairly physically intimidating - holding Katie's arm, kissing her demonstratively, always having a hand on her...while Katie almost seemed to take on the demure aspect of Princess Di - holding her head down, smiling with mouth closed - in sharp contrast to the over-huge, toothy grins on Cruise.  They were such a study in contrasts, I couldn't help wondering what on earth was happening to Katie behind closed doors.

Edited December 21, 2016 by laurakaye

[ButterQueen]

I would PAY to hear from Katie.  That was no small feat her Dad pulled off...especially given Tom's power in Scientology.

[Almost 3000]

The one thing I remember about the stealth in which Katie left Tom was about the phones. She had phones from her father and had them hidden.

[spiderpig]

12 hours ago, laurakaye said:

 

I admit to having been weirdly fascinated by the TomKat marriage...the pictures of the two of them in People, Us, etc. were always interesting to me.  The body language usually fell along the lines of Tom being fairly physically intimidating - holding Katie's arm, kissing her demonstratively, always having a hand on her...while Katie almost seemed to take on the demure aspect of Princess Di - holding her head down, smiling with mouth closed - in sharp contrast to the over-huge, toothy grins on Cruise.  They were such a study in contrasts, I couldn't help wondering what on earth was happening to Katie behind closed doors.

That controlling hand on her elbow always bugged the hell out of me.  She was a healthy adult woman - not a roll-aboard suitcase.

ETA:  Mr. pig and I hold hands all the time when we're out and about.  It's affection - not domination.  If he tried to steer me by my upper arm (which he wouldn't) I'd shake him off.

Edited December 22, 2016 by spiderpig

[GreyBunny]

[moved to general discussion thread]

Edited December 27, 2016 by GreyBunny

[Honoredbyfoxes]

Tara, hav you heard the Oh No Ross & Carrie podcast episodes where they join Scientology for a while? They get audited in one episode; it sounds both horrifying and totally boring. http://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2016/3/22/ross-and-carrie-audit-scientology-part-4-dianetics-and-volcanoes

[retired watcher]

I have read several books by former members of Scientology. They all say the same things. that is why i believe it is true. If Suppressives were lying their stories would all be different. They are all the same. Scary.

[pinguina]

As I saw the episode The Bridge, I couldn't believe the things the members had to pay for!!  They paid for courses, auditing sessions, security checks, and do-overs when "new" things were discovered or stuff had to be "corrected"!  

 In any other REAL religion this is not the case. Yes, we "tithe" on a weekly basis but that is based on what you as an individual can or want to give. Yes, we paid for Saturday classes but it was mostly to cover the cost of the book or books we used, OR  if we were going to a day or week-end retreat to cover cost of facility and food. But really that was it!  If we wanted (or currently want) to attend Bible Study or Prayer Group or listen to a speaker IT WAS FREE!

I've said it before isn't being required to pay for every little bit (including a membership fee - do they have to renew every year?) a red flag?  Are the members really not aware of what other churches do?  Or do they have no knowledge at all about what churches/religions do?

[Ina123]

The preview from last night about tonight's episode answers a good question about how she had time for this while acting on a TV show. She's shown on a beach at Clearwater and she bemoans the fact that while her friends were taking wild, exotic vacations while the show was on hiatus, she was in the church studying. She didn't have vacations and social events to go to. If she wasn't acting she was at the church studying.

[MamaMax]

On 12/15/2016 at 4:57 PM, fastiller said:

I think that it has to hurt him to be disconnected from his family, and I also think he hurts because he was complicit in disconnecting other families when he was a high-falutin' muckety-muck.  And I do understand your point @lordonia - he does still seem a bit imperious.  Perhaps taking this journey with LR will change that.

WORD!!!

[funky-rat]

On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 1:08 AM, lordonia said:

Anyway, it was interesting to hear some specifics about what the religion requires. Desiring to help solve the problems of the world notwithstanding, I just cannot fathom how a new adherent to Scientology will put up with several hours a day of auditing -- basically intense, uncomfortable interrogation about all aspects of one's personal life -- by some other random schmo. And pay for it!

My guess is because they're still looking for enlightenment, and they're told that it's all their fault they haven't found it, so they endure the auditing because they hope it will expose what it is that's holding them back.  Of course, it will never come to light......

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 9:12 AM, shelley1005 said:

I found this episode the most interesting yet.....talking about the actual courses in the Bridge and how it is supposed to bring you to freedom and enlightenment.  Of course...it's all about making money, but the constant lifelong learner aka geek is really curious about these courses.  If it wasn't a crazy cult, I might even like to take them.  

But crazy cult.  

I know - I was curious about the low-level stuff that actually can help, but don't want to get sucked in to anything whatsoever.  My mom almost bought Dianetics in the 80's volcano commercial days, but someone at Waldenbooks talked her out of it.

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 4:36 PM, MsNewsradio said:

Agree...it seemed pretty clear to me that it was a genuine response, especially considering it was directly after she started crying about having lost her son due to him disconnecting. I know plenty of guys who on the rare occasion they do cry it comes out almost exactly the same way. 

Yeah, Mr. Funky does that on the odd occasions he cries.  He doesn't do the sob, though.  He just kind-of jerks - almost like a heave - hard to explain.  Think of a kid in a full on temper tantrum where they're gasping for air, but nothing comes out.  So I believe Mike Rinder was genuinely upset.

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 6:21 PM, ButterQueen said:

I would PAY to hear from Katie.  That was no small feat her Dad pulled off...especially given Tom's power in Scientology.

My hope long-term is that this cult gets taken down, and we hear some good stuff that people were afraid to spill.

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 1:27 AM, pinguina said:

As I saw the episode The Bridge, I couldn't believe the things the members had to pay for!!  They paid for courses, auditing sessions, security checks, and do-overs when "new" things were discovered or stuff had to be "corrected"!  

 In any other REAL religion this is not the case. Yes, we "tithe" on a weekly basis but that is based on what you as an individual can or want to give. Yes, we paid for Saturday classes but it was mostly to cover the cost of the book or books we used, OR  if we were going to a day or week-end retreat to cover cost of facility and food. But really that was it!  If we wanted (or currently want) to attend Bible Study or Prayer Group or listen to a speaker IT WAS FREE!

I've said it before isn't being required to pay for every little bit (including a membership fee - do they have to renew every year?) a red flag?  Are the members really not aware of what other churches do?  Or do they have no knowledge at all about what churches/religions do?

Mr. Funky and I are in separate 12 step programs.  There are plenty of books to buy, and workbooks and journals.  They're cheap through the world service offices, but they nail you on shipping (Spending a total of $15 on a $6 book).  We mainly buy the books used, mainly off eBay, but the kicker is that you don't have to buy anything.  Most meetings have plenty of books to loan if you need them for the meeting.  And many old timers have books they are no longer using they will give or loan out.  We buy them so that if we're away and miss a meeting we can still do a reading and discuss it (have done that many times on road trips), or we can read something and ask questions to the other if we don't understand it, etc.  Plus I look at it as that I'm either getting a book from someone who no longer needs it because they completed things and are successful, or I'm getting it from someone who gave up, and I will therefor be putting it to good use.  Either way, good vibes.  :)  And yes, same with church.  You don't even have to do an offering if you can't afford it.  And if your church judges you for that, find a new one.  Many churches and religious orgs will give you a bible for free.  Some things do cost, but it's usually to cover their costs, and it's usually minimal.  I am a group rep for our 12 step group, and our get-togethers are pot luck.

[DangerousMinds]

From above - I know - I was curious about the low-level stuff that actually can help, but don't want to get sucked in to anything whatsoever.  My mom almost bought Dianetics in the 80's volcano commercial days, but someone at Waldenbooks talked her out of it.

 

I can't imagine what they teach is anything more than basic communication skills and self-help tips.

[funky-rat]

59 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

From above - I know - I was curious about the low-level stuff that actually can help, but don't want to get sucked in to anything whatsoever.  My mom almost bought Dianetics in the 80's volcano commercial days, but someone at Waldenbooks talked her out of it.

 

I can't imagine what they teach is anything more than basic communication skills and self-help tips.

Probably not, but that flashy commercial caught the attention of a lot of people who had never even heard of Scientology.  It made it seem like they had the answer to everything, and to those looking for it, I could see how they got sucked in.  I never understood how Jim Jones could hold sway over so many people, but over 800 died as his direction.