Joy and Austin: This One Time At Family Camp

[Jynnan tonnix]

On 12/12/2016 at 8:19 PM, ginger90 said:

She has her left hand tucked under the table. Already?

If you want to give the impression that you are not yet engaged, is it not possible to remove the ring for a photo? Do they weld it to their finger the moment they say "yes"? 

I remember when I was first engaged, I had not yet met my future in-laws, and my husband (to be) suggested that he first introduce me as a girlfriend, since I was meeting some members of the family earlier, then more would be arriving at the house later in the day (it was an Easter visit). So I didn't wear the ring until he made the announcement with everyone present at dinnertime. So much easier than sitting on my hand or keeping it in my pocket all day! 

[Fuzzysox]

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that Joy said yes to Austin because she at least knew him and he wasn't a complete stranger like Bin, Derick or Jeremy are. She doesn't have too much to lose that way because she will be in a good situation where her husband will have a job/future.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Fuzzysox

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

If you want to give the impression that you are not yet engaged, is it not possible to remove the ring for a photo? Do they weld it to their finger the moment they say "yes"? 

I remember when I was first engaged, I had not yet met my future in-laws, and my husband (to be) suggested that he first introduce me as a girlfriend, since I was meeting some members of the family earlier, then more would be arriving at the house later in the day (it was an Easter visit). So I didn't wear the ring until he made the announcement with everyone present at dinnertime. So much easier than sitting on my hand or keeping it in my pocket all day! 

Exhibitionists, however, engaged or not, ostentatiously hide their left hands under tables or stone ledges or whatever in photos that they then post on heavily trafficked Internet sites. Hence the Duggar tradition.

Yet another little instance of the ongoing horror of the stupid stupid suggestible Duggar children being parentally coached to shape and package their lives for maximum PR value.

[Christina87]

3 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that Joy said yes to Austin because she at least knew him and he wasn't a complete stranger like Bin, Derick or Jeremy are. She hasn't too much to lose that way because she will be in a good situation where her husband will have a job/future.

Yes. I think this pairing is the hardest to stomach because it's an arranged marriage, buuuut it's the only one I don't worry about. 

[Chicklet]

Yes they sell their kids the lie that Prince Charming is going to find them (thank you chick who wrote the actual book and is a single woman so how would she know?) Then they sell them down the river to the most expedient and/or first available person who might solve a problem. I have no issues with arranged marriages but at least in the people I know who had those types of marriages, the parents put in time and effort to find the best candidate. This smacks of the daily special at the local bakery. "He's fresh, he's tasty but get him before he's stale".

[queenanne]

1 hour ago, Chicklet said:

Yes they sell their kids the lie that Prince Charming is going to find them (thank you chick who wrote the actual book and is a single woman so how would she know?) Then they sell them down the river to the most expedient and/or first available person who might solve a problem. I have no issues with arranged marriages but at least in the people I know who had those types of marriages, the parents put in time and effort to find the best candidate. This smacks of the daily special at the local bakery. "He's fresh, he's tasty but get him before he's stale".

That's what tends to happen in small towns with small congregations in my experience, though.  (Not the matchmaking part, but falling on any single men with glad cries and throwing a vise around their neck.)  I grew up in a town of less than 5,000; catch sight of the tip of the nose of any new eligible male entering the foyer of the little church in the holler, there's minimum three avaricious single females lining up to "dibs" him.  

I also wonder if, before they have to put the theory of finding mates into practice, the fact that they're churning out so many offspring themselves, leads to cognitive distortion and a self-satisfied mien.  "Well, Sally's got eight, and Maeve's got fourteen, and Bob's got nine, and these are just the people we know.  Surely out of all those potential mates there have to be spouses!"

[Rabbittron]

On 12/14/2016 at 4:16 PM, Christina87 said:

Yes. I think this pairing is the hardest to stomach because it's an arranged marriage, buuuut it's the only one I don't worry about. 

When you think about this weren't all the kids marriages arranged?

[Arwen Evenstar]

54 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

When you think about this weren't all the kids marriages arranged?

Yep.  Smuggley Do Right was a problem that needed to be solved. Josh new Anna from one of the conferences, so Boob made sure that happened. 

I think Muffy was arranged, since Boob knew Derick from Skype and saw that it was good. Jana said no, so Muffy was next at bat. Bin found Blessa on his own; he sought her out, but Boob not approving of long courtships, greased the wheels by moving Bin to the servant's quarters and offered him a job. Bin had to prove his mettle scrubbing and unstopping icky Duggar toilets and mowing the back 40. And Boob saw that it was good.

Jessa set up Cringe with Baaaaabe. Boob was not liking this. I think Jinger was really the only one who could say she got to choose.

[MunichNark]

This courtship just is so utterly wrong on every single level. Joyanna is a mere child, not ready for adulthood. I dont' want to see them getting married. I have zero interest in anything they do.

FFS, what kind of parents would find this good???

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 minute ago, MunichNark said:

This courtship just is so utterly wrong on every single level. Joyanna is a mere child, not ready for adulthood. I dont' want to see them getting married. I have zero interest in anything they do.

FFS, what kind of parents would find this good???

I was just taking that line from the Bible, "and God saw that it was good" to snark on Boob, who fancies himself as a demigod.

[Sew Sumi]

6 hours ago, Chicklet said:

Yes they sell their kids the lie that Prince Charming is going to find them (thank you chick who wrote the actual book and is a single woman so how would she know?) Then they sell them down the river to the most expedient and/or first available person who might solve a problem. I have no issues with arranged marriages but at least in the people I know who had those types of marriages, the parents put in time and effort to find the best candidate. This smacks of the daily special at the local bakery. "He's fresh, he's tasty but get him before he's stale".

Ah, Sarah Mally. She's about 37 now with no Prince Charming in sight. She's even more pathetic than Sarah Maxwell. And yes, I've read the book. It's just awful, even for a tween or young teen girl, just as Sarah Maxwell's Moody books are (I subverted Steve and have an autographed copy of the first Moody book). ?

[Lemur]

On 12/18/2016 at 1:16 PM, MunichNark said:

This courtship just is so utterly wrong on every single level. Joyanna is a mere child, not ready for adulthood. I dont' want to see them getting married. I have zero interest in anything they do.

FFS, what kind of parents would find this good???

It's better to marry than to burn ...

[Chicklet]

Well there is "burning" tm Paul somewhere in the New Testament and then there is self-immolation. Which is what happened to Anna. And the jury will still be out on Jill for a while yet.

[Fuzzysox]

On 12/18/2016 at 0:16 PM, MunichNark said:

This courtship just is so utterly wrong on every single level. Joyanna is a mere child, not ready for adulthood. I dont' want to see them getting married. I have zero interest in anything they do.

FFS, what kind of parents would find this good???

The kind that are grifters and see all the "free" lodging that will come their way after they are married.

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

The kind that are grifters and see all the "free" lodging that will come their way after they are married.

Plus the extra season of TeeVee, of course.

And of course his parents put the famous girl's pic up in their online ads instantly. So the parents at least, in this case, are a marriage made in grifter heaven. Or somewhere.

[Fuzzysox]

So would it be safe to say that JoyAnna will be married in April or May? That would mean Jessa had her baby and Jilly wouldn't be ready to pop yet so she would be in the wedding party and probably be the Maid Of Honor.

[awaken]

48 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

So would it be safe to say that JoyAnna will be married in April or May? That would mean Jessa had her baby and Jilly wouldn't be ready to pop yet so she would be in the wedding party and probably be the Maid Of Honor.

 That sounds about right – and then we will have a jinger pregnancy announcement, birth by the end of the year, Jill's and Jessa's births, and Joy's pregnancy announcement before the end of the year so they are set for the next couple years worth of material!    Very strategic, Duggars!

48 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by awaken

[Sew Sumi]

16 hours ago, Fuzzysox said:

The kind that are grifters and see all the "free" lodging that will come their way after they are married.

 I'm pretty sure the Duggars already get free lodging. This is more of a case of you scratch my back I'll scratch your back. Jim Bob gets another season on TV and Pa Forsyth gets Duggar  promotion for his family camp.

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, awaken said:

 That sounds about right – and then we will have a jinger pregnancy announcement, birth by the end of the year, Jill's and Jessa's births, and Joy's pregnancy announcement before the end of the year so they are set for the next couple years worth of material!    Very strategic, Duggars!

This is th kind of stuff that bores me the most! Most families experience this. Yawn.

[ginger90]

Was there an egagement announcement?

[Marigold]

3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Was there an egagement announcement?

Not yet. 

[kokapetl]

The nature and purpose of "courting" makes an engagement sort of on the radar and implied. I hope Joy-Anna recognizes what she does and doesn't feel for whoever, and doesn't let this courtship self propel itself into an engagement and marriage just because she doesn't want to upset the apple cart. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Kokapetl

[CofCinci]

How much does it cost to stay a week at his family's camp?  It will be interesting to see if the fee goes up once the Duggar name is permanently attached to the camp via Joy working there. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

50 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

How much does it cost to stay a week at his family's camp?  It will be interesting to see if the fee goes up once the Duggar name is permanently attached to the camp via Joy working there. 

I'm sure people want to get a glimpse of Joy cleaning the toilets...what I guess she thought she was going to be their fresh faced cover gurl....bwahhh-ha-ha.

[Marigold]

I feel bad for Joy.  She will be stuck living in some resort camping place forever.  Pretty depressing for a teenage bride. 

[CofCinci]

31 minutes ago, Marigold said:

I feel bad for Joy.  She will be stuck living in some resort camping place forever.  Pretty depressing for a teenage bride. 

I feel the opposite for Joy.  I'm happy for her.   At Jesus Camp she won't have to worry so much about her countenance.  She'll have freedom.  It's clear that Joy is joyless about her appearance - compared to her sisters and their parents.  She's not someone who wants to spend an hour curling her hair or ironing the family mustard sweater.  She wore an old sweatshirt to their Courtship photoshoot!  Joy has hoped on the first train out of Duggarville.  Running the camp provides her the excuse to develop the type of boundaries she wants with her family.  Also, her suitor has the opportunity to not live off Jim Bob's teet, like all the son-in-laws. 

All she needs now is an adventure sandal instead of $4 flip-flops, and she's good for a while. 

[MunichNark]

On 19.12.2016 at 8:14 PM, Lemur said:

It's better to marry than to burn ...

True but this weird emphasis on "ye SHALL get married" is totally unbiblical and just doesn't make sense. Marriage is actually a poor second to devoting one's life to God entirely.

[Lemur]

3 minutes ago, MunichNark said:

True but this weird emphasis on "ye SHALL get married" is totally unbiblical and just doesn't make sense. Marriage is actually a poor second to devoting one's life to God entirely.

Ehhh.  They have a very different interpretation of the Bible from Catholics and older, more establish, less apocalyptic Protestant denominations.  

[Marigold]

15 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

I feel the opposite for Joy.  I'm happy for her.   At Jesus Camp she won't have to worry so much about her countenance.  She'll have freedom.  It's clear that Joy is joyless about her appearance - compared to her sisters and their parents.  She's not someone who wants to spend an hour curling her hair or ironing the family mustard sweater.  She wore an old sweatshirt to their Courtship photoshoot!  Joy has hoped on the first train out of Duggarville.  Running the camp provides her the excuse to develop the type of boundaries she wants with her family.  Also, her suitor has the opportunity to not live off Jim Bob's teet, like all the son-in-laws. 

All she needs now is an adventure sandal instead of $4 flip-flops, and she's good for a while. 

We camp a lot and I'm thinking a bunch of cabins stuck out in nowhere with minimal contact of other people. 

Austin can never move. Ever.  This is his livelihood for the rest of his life?  So depressing.  Yeah, Austin is not living off Jim Bob but he is going to live off his family.  His parents look nuts. 

Joy is gonna work her ass off too.  Expected to have a ton of kids and then work the resort? I picture Joy,  postpartum with an infant strapped on her, signing in guests with her kooky mother in law giving her orders.  Then returning to her cabin/house and trying to homeschool a bunch of kids before the lunch rush.  

That's it for Joy.  At least Jinger, Jessa or Jill CAN move if they want.  Austin is stuck with this camp resort, like a rope around his neck.  

[Arwen Evenstar]

44 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

She's not someone who wants to spend an hour curling her hair or ironing the family mustard sweater. 

LOL...I think you just won the Internet!

I'm wondering if the family mustard sweater will actually get a burial once it's done for. A garment which will live in infamy.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[Absolom]

Austin and his sister can sell the camp most likely after the parents are gone if it bothers him running it.  That could be 20 years down the road, but it more than likely isn't a life sentence.

[Sew Sumi]

8 hours ago, CofCinci said:

How much does it cost to stay a week at his family's camp?  It will be interesting to see if the fee goes up once the Duggar name is permanently attached to the camp via Joy working there. 

https://www.fortrock.org/costs/

And don't forget to bring your own linens! 

Check out "extra fees." A Duggar-sized family would cost a pretty penny. And for what? Are there even any semibars? If Ma and Pa Forsyth are leading them, with guest speakers like the Duggars now and again, it sounds like the kids (and volunteers) do all the cooking and cleaning. 

Forget CinderJana. Joy's plight is going to make Jana's life look like Kim Lardassian's.

[BitterApple]

Lmfao, wait, so they charge these families and then expect them to bring along their kids as "volunteers" to do the cooking and cleaning? Man, these Fundies are absolute wizards at hustling. You could probably rent a nice lakeside cabin for a week for what you'd spend at crappy Fort Rock.

[Sew Sumi]

I wonder if Fort Rock has 501c3 status? I mean, Christian Family Retreats, etc. Is it enough for non-profit status? 

I also noticed on the front page that they're proud to announce they now have horses. Who takes care of them? 

Here is a link to the front page. I thought it might be useful to rule out dates when Joy can't get married. It looks like it will either be before the Spring Break camps in late March, or possibly between those camps and the Family Camp in late April. But I think it's more likely that they get married in the off-season; it looks like they book the cabins to anyone who wants to rent them when they don't have the formal "camps" going on. 

https://www.fortrock.org/events/

 I really think the engagement is coming within the next 10 days, announced on 1/16 when the show comes back, wedding in mid-March before Spring Break. It's either that or a verrrrrry long courtship and short engagement once camp winds down in the fall with a wedding sometime after the last camp in October. That's probably best-case scenario; she'd be almost 20 then. 

[laney]

Maybe the completely booked, private family conference at Fort Rock April 27-30 is set aside for the wedding?

[Sew Sumi]

My ruminations on a Family Camp Wedding. Feel free to skip this post. :D

I guess they know how many people they can fit on the property, but do they have a building large enough for the thousand person wedding ceremony? I doubt their conferences have anywhere close to that number of people.  I think that if they use that venue, her guest list will have to be severely cut. That said, I suppose Joy would be the one to break with tradition and have an outdoor wedding, but that's a ton of logistics. They do have kitchens, and I suppose their dining area (is it indoors or more of a "camp" feeling mess hall with no walls?) could stage the main parts of the reception? 

But April is a long way off....for fundies. Anyone who knows either family that has half a brain in their head would check the Fort Rock site for any hints (thankfully, I don't think leghumpers are that smart) and jockeying for position of favoritism with the Duggars for a golden ticket. 

I just don't know though. If any leghumpers put two and two together and start posting on social media if the date becomes viable, it could be a media circus. I have to ultimately disagree and sigh. Joy will go the typical fundie route and not wear combat boots instead of pumps under her dress. Speaking of, poor girl is going to have to go the Jill route and stiffen up the bodice to hide her curves. :(

Edited December 23, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[MunichNark]

16 hours ago, Lemur said:

Ehhh.  They have a very different interpretation of the Bible from Catholics and older, more establish, less apocalyptic Protestant denominations.  

Did I just reveal myself as a heathen Catholic?:-)))

But seriously, I can never understand people who drag what they want from the Bible, whilst ignoring the extremely obvious.  How is that even possible?

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, MunichNark said:

Did I just reveal myself as a heathen Catholic?:-)))

But seriously, I can never understand people who drag what they want from the Bible, whilst ignoring the extremely obvious.  How is that even possible?

I agree I often wondered what Bible their reading since they seem to be ignoring the extremely obvious. And yet its been going on for centuries. 

[CofCinci]

15 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I wonder if Fort Rock has 501c3 status? I mean, Christian Family Retreats, etc. Is it enough for non-profit status? 

It doesn't look like it but I only ran a basic search. 

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

It doesn't look like it but I only ran a basic search. 

I  am bored so I  did a complete search and they do not have 501c3 status. They are for profit.

[GeeGolly]

I get the post about being tied to the Camp and not having the option to move, but I have lived in the same general area my whole live and have never had a desire to live anywhere else.

It'll be interesting to learn more about Austin's parents. The fact that they have only 2 kids makes me wonder where their Fundy line is. But I had hope for pants wearing Cathy and she proved to be pretty religiously zealous. And the rigid Seewald parents have a bikini wearing daughter. I guess they all move that Fundy line around when they see fit.

[Churchhoney]

On 12/22/2016 at 9:52 AM, MunichNark said:

True but this weird emphasis on "ye SHALL get married" is totally unbiblical and just doesn't make sense. Marriage is actually a poor second to devoting one's life to God entirely.

Yes. But this is the Bible as entirely interpreted by insecure horny desperate-to-be-big-shots men who've decided their best road to power and self-fulfillment is manipulating women and children and proving they're great by shooting out as many my-sperm-did-this babies and grandbabies and greatgrandbabies into the earth's future as possible.

That's the great (ha) thing about these grab-bag "religious texts" like the Bible. All the earth's manipulative power-mad jerks can use them to justify and "prove" anything at all that they figure will be to their advantage.

The Bible's like a cloud or a fire in the fireplace. You sit and stare into it awhile, while obsessed by your personal daydreams and desires, and you can see anything at all that you want. But ... unlike with the cloud, you can convince yourself and -- most crucially -- others of your choice that what you've seen is God's Great Truth and Law. So they'd better shut up and follow it.

Edited December 23, 2016 by Churchhoney

[laurakaye]

Is there anyone else who would rather watch paint dry than watch the courtship and wedding of these two?

Joy has little to no personality, and I guess the jury is still out on this Austin fellow, but if he was attracted to Joy then I don't hold out a ton of hope for him.

I can't even imagine Joy choosing colors for her bridesmaids..."ummmm, errrrrrr.....is vanilla a color?"  YAWN.

[DangerousMinds]

YAWN is right.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I get the post about being tied to the Camp and not having the option to move, but I have lived in the same general area my whole live and have never had a desire to live anywhere else.

 

I agree. My concern for Joy is that she isn't used to the level of effort running a business takes and I think she's going to be overwhelmed. Just like Jill and her mission work. Playing at something is entirely different than having responsibilities on your shoulders. Joy has no clue what she's in for.

[Marigold]

I worry that Austin's parents are going to see Joy as "free labor" and work her hard.  

Obviously we have to see how this progresses but I can foresee Joy cleaning rooms, cooking and serving food. AND having children.  AND being joyful about it. 

[kokapetl]

11 hours ago, MunichNark said:

Did I just reveal myself as a heathen Catholic?:-)))

But seriously, I can never understand people who drag what they want from the Bible, whilst ignoring the extremely obvious.  How is that even possible?

If you're from Munich...

[riverblue22]

5 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Is there anyone else who would rather watch paint dry than watch the courtship and wedding of these two?

Joy has little to no personality, and I guess the jury is still out on this Austin fellow, but if he was attracted to Joy then I don't hold out a ton of hope for him.

I can't even imagine Joy choosing colors for her bridesmaids..."ummmm, errrrrrr.....is vanilla a color?"  YAWN.

Joy will turn all the planning over to Jana and Jessa.  She could do worse than letting Jessa find her the perfect dress.  They could have the wedding at the camp (sort of like Maddie Brown's destination wedding) and we can be entertained by howlers doing their camping thing.  I wonder how many people the camp dining hall can hold?

[MunichNark]

11 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

If you're from Munich...

I'm not:-)))) I actually hail from the Proddie North..........

 

A thousand times No, Joy! No, you are not ready for marriage, sex and kids. I cannot even begin to fathom how anyone would think that this is what she should be doing.  She isn't at all maternal. She's certainly not mature

[Micks Picks]

From what I can gather, it's only $595 per family of 5 with kid under 4 for free.  The dinning hall holds 200.  That's only 3 or 4 days per retreat so seems very cheap.  If horses, paddle boats, food are included it's a steal.  No wonder they don't provide linens.  It would cost a lot more to patronize the mission cations when yu factor in transportation per person.  They all have to go to each others rip offs to keep each other afloat.  All JB has to sell are cars.  Or renting warehouse space.  Seating space for 200 after a wedding would be a big Dugger deal.  They usually just have seatless parking lots except for the lucky ones invited to TTH afterwards, creating a class system for guests.  That would piss me off, but I'm not fundy.