S02.E06: Who Needs Josh When You Have A Girl Group?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Rebecca tries to host a girls' night with Paula, Heather, and Valencia, but things don't go as planned. Meanwhile, Darryl bonds with co-worker Maya and discovers they have more in common than he realized.

Promo:

Edited December 9, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[kathe5133]

Since I watch on the CW app, I have to wait until Saturday morning to watch.  I avoided this thread all yesterday evening and this morning.  Then I go to the CW site and no new episode!  I listen to the promo, "Friday, Dec 2nd......". I need to learn to listen better!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

FYI - the scheduled air date is listed on each episode thread too. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[Primetimer]

Rebecca's latest heartbreak may be too much to bear -- for her, and for our commentator.

View the full article

[betha]

Eh. I miss Greg. 

[srpturtle80]

Was it just me or did that episode seem like it was about 3 hours long? 

Why is Trent back? I do not enjoy him.

I did laugh for about 5 minutes at the visual of Josh jumping back into the box of peanuts and then covering his head with them. 

I hope next week is better!

[SeanC]

I will say, I find a lot of Paula's POV in this whole friendship split story a bit hard to sympathize with. Yes, their relationship is very much centered on Rebecca, but y'know who caused that? Paula. And yes, Rebecca's problems this season caused her to be preoccupied a few times, but Paula spent a full year feeding Rebecca's unhealthy behaviour, even to the point of actively steering her away from healthier choices at times. Now, maybe all of the above is a good reason for just calling quits on their relationship, but suggesting that the current split is on Rebecca's personality is a bit much.

The stuff with "Angelique" dragged a bit, but I liked everything else, especially the sudden development of Mia's role, and the amusing payoff.  Trent's return was also hilarious.  So in terms of elevating the roles of minor characters, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Edited December 3, 2016 by SeanC

[Irlandesa]

I actually found this episode darn near perfect mainly because I think the comedy was so on point for me.  I don't want to list everything but it all pretty much worked for me.  I loved Trent last season and seeing him again was a great surprise, especially the reprise of "Getting Ready Song."  I think the only scene that sorta dragged was when they were hanging out at the bar but his initial attempt to woo Josh was perfect.  Angelique was perfectly silly but that actress usually cracks me up.  The Spice Girls sendoff was fun. 

And that dance, man, I'm glad White Josh didn't see that because I love them as a couple and that might have killed any sexual attraction between them.  It was nice to find out that Darryl does have some self-awareness about his desperation.

55 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Rebecca's problems this season caused her to be preoccupied a few times, but Paula spent a full year feeding Rebecca's unhealthy behaviour, even to the point of actively steering her away from healthier choices at times. Now, maybe all of the above is a good reason for just calling quits on their relationship, but suggesting that the current split is on Rebecca's personality is a bit much.

But Paula wasn't looking to accuse.  I think she knows why their relationship is what it is and her part in it but she's right in that's their dynamic.  She was still understanding of Rebecca, though.  It wasn't until Rebecca essentially accused her of being ungrateful for all she did for "her" that Paula started laying out why she wasn't happy with the evening

[PodcastTown]

Something tells me Rebecca and Valencia are not over Josh yet. Sleeping with Trent at the end there is not a good sign. Oh Rebecca do you ever learn? Your girl empowerment and being supported by your peers is to prevent stuff like that from happening. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I had mixed feelings about this episode. I like that we got a whole episode where Rebecca wasn't chasing after a guy. I like that she is making such an effort to be friends with Valencia and Heather. But I feel like she has taken all the energy she used to put towards her Josh obsession and refocused it on her new friendship with Valencia and Heather. It feels a bit manic and desperate. I know that this week's theme was that you can't force things, and obviously Heather and Valencia are open to being friends with Rebecca so that part isn't forced, but I feel like Rebecca is trying so hard to make the three of them into instant BFFs.

Similarly, I still haven't made up my mind about Trent. He can be funny but man, sometimes he is painful to watch, but for the same reason that Rebecca and Darryl are sometimes hard to watch - their undisguised need for attention and affection can be too much. I think it's interesting to bring Trent back and clearly show him as a male version of Rebecca. Heh, Josh: Rebecca:: Rebecca: Trent

A little of Trent goes a long way so I wonder if this is going to be a mini-arc with just one or two more episodes of Trent shenanigans or if this is going to continue for a larger part of the season. Rebecca made a huge mistake sleeping with him though. It was really cruel of her to use him to make herself feel better when she knows that he has feelings for her.

While I understand Paula's frustration, the way she behaved underscored Heather's statement about women being indirect communicators. Instead of just being honest with Rebecca, she was being a little stand-offish at work and then she was being passive aggressively bitchy at Rebecca's house. In Paula's defense, it sucked that Rebecca set up this whole gurl squad night without telling anyone of them about it ahead of time. They are all adults so they should get to decide if they want to participate in this social gathering ahead of time instead of having Rebecca spring it on them. I totally got Paula's frustration there. It sucks when you think you're going to just hang out and talk with your friend and then you show up and find out that your friend invited her boyfriend, her roommate, some girl from her gym, etc.

But where I found serious fault with Paula was when Rebecca said she asked her what was going on and Paula didn't tell her about the abortion. Now let me just state for the record that no matter how close two friends are, I think you are NEVER required to divulge anything that you don't want to share. Paula could have kept that from Rebecca forever and I would not have held it against her. But what annoyed me is that she wanted to tell Rebecca (and she even told both Scott and her new law school friend that she wanted to tell Rebecca about it), but when Rebecca pointed out that she sat on Paula's bed and asked her if anything was wrong, Paula said, "But you didn't mean it."

Yes, Rebecca can be incredibly self-centered, but you don't get to decide if she meant it when she asked if you were okay. And no, you shouldn't have to ask for your friend's support, but how could Rebecca offer any support if she didn't know what you were going through? If you're not going to tell your friend what's going on, you can't expect her to be psychic and know what to give you. Again, this speaks to what Heather said about how a lot of women being indirect communicators. As self-centered as Rebecca is, when she wanted Paula's help she just asked her to help her. I'm not saying Rebecca is right and Paula is wrong because I agree with most of what Paula said. I just think that Paula bears some blame in this situation too.

On a happier note, I looooooooved the fact that Josh filled an entire box with packing peanuts just so he could jump up and yell, "PEANUT MONSTER!" at his boss. I also laughed at the long list of things that Trent bought at the beginning of the episode. I mean, obviously he is nuts for spending $10K on beach stuff when he doesn't even like the beach but props to him for fully committing to his plan. Loved the update of the Sexy Getting Ready song. I also loved that when Trent was at the bar, you could see a bloodstain on the shoulder of his Baja hoodie from where he'd cut himself earlier.

[Rinaldo]

I think that's right, @PodcastTown, and I also think that while @SeanC's points about Paula's share in the inequality of their friendship are valid, in both cases I think the writers/creators are well aware of the circumstance and three steps ahead of us, as they generally are. This week is not the end of the story, after all: there's more to come in everyone's evolution, and so far I'm impressed with how far in advance they've set up all the elements. (Darryl's rudeness to Maya from her first day, when he announced he was "Gettin' Bi," finally pays off!) It's painful to see Rebecca and Paula so far apart, but we've been heading this way for a long time, and it doesn't mean this is the final state of things.

One thing that hampered my interaction with this episode was that both "Friendtopia" and "Stuck in the Bathroom" seemed to be very specific parodies of particular songs/videos that I don't know. I'm better off when they're engaging a whole style or genre (and still better if it's musical theater, my home territory). But that's not a complaint. Another week, I'll get the reference and someone else won't.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Rinaldo

[quangtran]

I also think Paula was in the wrong, but for a slightly different reason. This friendship of their was never going to be equal when one of them sees themselves as the "mother" of the pair. Paula is the one who is coddling Rebecca and feels responsible for absorbing in both of their burdens.

[Phishbulb]

1 hour ago, Rinaldo said:

One thing that hampered my interaction with this episode was that both "Friendtopia" and "Stuck in the Bathroom" seemed to be very specific parodies of particular songs/videos that I don't know. I'm better off when they're engaging a whole style or genre (and still better if it's musical theater, my home territory.) But that's not a complaint.

"Friendtopia" was sort of a mash-up of different Spice Girls songs ("Spice Up Your Life", "Wannabe", etc.) and "Stuck In The Bathroom" was a pretty direct parody of R. Kelly's "Trapped in the Closet" (which you should Google if you want to see something truly insane). 

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, srpturtle80 said:

Why is Trent back? I do not enjoy him.

I didn't mind his first appearance, but I found this one exhausting to watch. The reprise of "Getting Ready Song" was very funny, though. 

In the Paula/Rebecca fight, I'm TeamPaula. Both of them are at fault—which I appreciate—but I think she's trying harder to rebalance the friendship.

2 hours ago, Phishbulb said:

"Stuck In The Bathroom"

This was nuts in the best way.

[HerkyJerky]

This was the funniest episode ever!  When "Angelique" couldn't open the door because of all the lube on her hand, I died laughing!!

[theatremouse]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Rebecca made a huge mistake sleeping with him though. It was really cruel of her to use him to make herself feel better when she knows that he has feelings for her.

I disagree on the cruelty angle. I don't know that she necessarily really understood the extent of his deal, but at least when she propositioned him she was very upfront and clear about her intentions. Was it a good idea? Still probably no, but I think "using him" has stronger negative connotations than what she did. Yeah she did it to make herself feel better, but she literally told him that's why she was suggesting it. She was not remotely misleading about it.

[Lebanna]

I'm not sure whether Trent is more of a male Rebecca or more a male Karen.

He certainly is creepy.

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, PodcastTown said:

Something tells me Rebecca and Valencia are not over Josh yet. Sleeping with Trent at the end there is not a good sign. Oh Rebecca do you ever learn? Your girl empowerment and being supported by your peers is to prevent stuff like that from happening. 

 

2 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Was it a good idea? Still probably no, but I think "using him" has stronger negative connotations than what she did. Yeah she did it to make herself feel better, but she literally told him that's why she was suggesting it. She was not remotely misleading about it.

Right.  While I think she's not done obsessing about Josh, I also don't think sleeping with Trent was remotely about him but rather all about making herself feel better.  And whether or not it's a good idea---eh.  She probably could have chosen more wisely when it comes to a partner given his level of obsession with her but I don't think there's anything wrong about choosing to have sex in order to feel better as long as that's the end result and it doesn't feel bad or shameful. I don't see anything anti-feminist or anti-empowerment at all in that.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Irlandesa

[theatremouse]

Yeah, for me the bad-idea-ness here comes from what we, the audience, know about Trent that Rebecca doesn't yet. He's creepy as fuck and even though she was straightforward with him, this may encourage him to stick around and continue being creepy. I don't doubt she'd reject him outright though. At the same time, I think the point is absolutely that he's totally doing the same thing she did, yet somehow he's a little scarier than she ever was, to me.

Edited December 4, 2016 by theatremouse

[Eeksquire]

This episode kind of fell flat for me UNTIL the tag.  Trent confessing that he was a virgin and then Rebecca making him "pay the toll" made me laugh out loud forever.  

However, I did like that this episode set up a lot of the tertiary characters for new storylines for the remainder of the season.  Especially Maya, because she's my favorite.  And I love Darryl and hope that there is some kind of friend-jealousy triangle between White Josh, Darryl and Maya.  Or that Paula and/or Rebecca have some kind of 'crisis' that requires assistance from Darryl and Maya and they save the day.  (Mostly because I don't want to see them go the way of Jerry in Parks and Rec; that storyline was the only thing I disliked about that show.)

[msani19]

At first, I thought the coworkers were making fun of Maya and Darryl. But they seemed to genuinely want to get the moves right! It cracked me up. Especially cause it seemed like they were just making it up as they went along. 

[PatternRec]

I liked the episode but I thought it was uneven. The development between Rachel and Paula was an important one, and like many have pointed out above, both had reason to be angry. 

Darryl and Maya's dance was hilarious, as were some of the whiteboard ideas. 

Vella Lovell gets more beautiful every episode. <3 

[rho]

2 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

This episode kind of fell flat for me UNTIL the tag.  Trent confessing that he was a virgin and then Rebecca making him "pay the toll" made me laugh out loud forever.  

However, I did like that this episode set up a lot of the tertiary characters for new storylines for the remainder of the season.  Especially Maya, because she's my favorite.  And I love Darryl and hope that there is some kind of friend-jealousy triangle between White Josh, Darryl and Maya.  Or that Paula and/or Rebecca have some kind of 'crisis' that requires assistance from Darryl and Maya and they save the day.  (Mostly because I don't want to see them go the way of Jerry in Parks and Rec; that storyline was the only thing I disliked about that show.)

OMG!!! The "toll" line had me howling!! I like that Trevor's popped back up and that when we see that type of behavior from this perspective, the immediate instinct is to run. I don't necessarily want him to stick around very long, but I think it would be really funny if Rebecca becomes somewhat dependent on him, just like Josh leaned on Rebecca a bit. Even when he found her a little creepy, Josh always went to Rebecca for advice. After seeing Trevor rescue Paula from the shoddy remodel, I think Rebecca might find some way to use him.

[AlliMo]

I love the musical bits in this so very much.

Overall I enjoyed it, but the best parts of me for this were Heather and Valencia's reactions. Gabrielle Ruiz and Vella Lovell are gold.

[SomeTameGazelle]

I was disappointed that Trent's plan to infiltrate Josh's friend group didn't require more steps and/or subterfuge. I have a weakness for brazen ridiculous lying and I didn't get enough of it.

Sadly Valencia and Heather seemed very dull and one-note to me and I felt the episode really dragged. 

[Empress1]

20 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I disagree on the cruelty angle. I don't know that she necessarily really understood the extent of his deal, but at least when she propositioned him she was very upfront and clear about her intentions. Was it a good idea? Still probably no, but I think "using him" has stronger negative connotations than what she did. Yeah she did it to make herself feel better, but she literally told him that's why she was suggesting it. She was not remotely misleading about it.

I agree. A LOT of people use sex to soothe, and if you're 100% clear that that's what it is, I think that's fine. Rebecca said exactly that, in so many words. Now, Trent is Trent and he's pretty clearly going to get attached, but that'll be because he willfully disregards what Rebecca told him, not because Rebecca made him think their tryst was more than it was.

I've been to a sex toy party. It's really not sexual at all, even though you're looking at sex toys. The woman selling (a friend of a friend) was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, not latex, and it was her side hustle because she was a single mom of 3. (Her kids, three teenage boys, knew about it and thought it was funny.) Sex toys are expensive so there's decent money in it. It's definitely not the kind of thing you spring on someone though. The drinking the lube and spitting it back up was fucking gross.

[tennisgurl]

If you have never seen the original Trapped in a Closet saga, please do yourself a favor and check it out. Its one of the most bizarre things your going to see. And the Spice Girls parody was clearly just made for me and my nostalgia trip back to my 90s childhood. 

This was pretty good, but I felt like Heather and Valencia were underused, which is weird considering they're friend group is the focus of the whole episode. Most of the real stuff was with Paula and Rebecca, and while I was very pissed at Rebecca about putting off the recommendation letter for Paula, I think she is pretty in the wrong on this one. Its not fair for Paula to say that Rebecca "didn't mean it" when she asked her if anything was wrong. I HATE when people do stuff like that, its so passive aggressive and irritating, and makes it impossible to actually communicate. And Paula was the one who was so obsessed with Rebecca's love life. 

Put me in the Pro Trent camp. What can I say, the actor cracks me up. 

[theatremouse]

The thing I liked most about the Spicish Girls song was the dystopian stuff, which got pretty dark in a few places, which made it all the more entertaining for me.

[possibilities]

I loved it. It was hard to watch. It was a total gut punch. But awesome.

The Bechdel Test has been left behind, far, far away in the distance. The Paula-Rebecca fight was raw and true, and every bit as serious-- possibly moreso-- than any breakdown between Rebecca and Josh or Greg. I love that.

I was bothered by Darryl's treatment of Maya and thought it was out of character for him. I do like them being friends now, though, and that their dance caught on.

I wonder if Darryl ever hangs out with WhiJo and his friends. I thought it was strange that Darryl was more jealous and bothered by the exclusion from Rebecca's friend group than he was about his exlcusion from WhiJo's friend group.

Trent being obviously doing what Rebecca did with Josh, and Rebecca not seeing it, was awesome. Also, Josh being mocked for his painful 11 seconds of being single was great. And his version of the "getting ready" song-- no words!

I bought the friendship team of Rebecca-Valencia-Heather when it formed, but I was disappointed by how they played it this episode. They are acting like 12 year olds, not adults, and seemed like the show was not in fact celebrating female friends, but mocking them, in that regard. There's never been a parallel suggestion about the bro friends when they hang out together.

I did love that Heather was able to tell Valencia she had bad breath, and Valencia accepted it, and it was portrayed as helping her rather than undermining her. I also liked how it set up the wrongness of Rebecca engineering a forced integration of Paula with "the gurls". I don't understand why Rebecca couldn't have been direct and just told everyone she wanted them to meet because she loves them all thought it would be fun. I didn't even think the sex toy party was inherently a bad idea (except that Karen was clearly not what they were looking for in someone to do the presentation), but everyone should have been told ahead of time what they were being invited to. For one thing, those "parties" are for sales. If you think your friends would be interested, it implies they're going to buy something. It's like "Tupperware parties" used to be. So they should know about it ahead of time, not only so they aren't blindsided, but also so they can bring money.

Edited December 4, 2016 by possibilities

[theatremouse]

21 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I bought the friendship team of Rebecca-Valencia-Heather when it formed, but I was disappointed by how they played it this episode. They are acting like 12 year olds, not adults, and seemed like the show was not in fact celebrating female friends, but mocking them, in that regard. 

I thought the point they were making about the friend group was moreso that none of the three actually really knew how to have a friend group? So in that regard, it was neither mocking nor celebrating female friends. The things like Heather pointing out she communicates more directly, and then proceeding to do so, followed by Valencia repeatedly asking if she were supposed to giggle, etc. plus Rebecca trying to force Paula as a fourth. It was sort of like all three of them had organically fallen into this group friendship, and dug it, but then suddenly put a label on it amongst themselves and were thereby trying to live up to some unwritten standard that doesn't really exist. There was a whole vibe of "am I doing this right?" from all three of them, albeit in slightly different ways. So, to me, more than them acting like 12 year olds, it was almost like they were trying to act like 12 year olds, possibly because they never had before? (that much was unclear) and then they all failed because even where their friendships were real, they too were trying to force it here, in the sense of forcing some mysterious, not really clear to any one of them, concept of how they were "supposed" to do it. It was interesting to me. And, as this show tends to...it was...uh...a little more nuanced than it seemed upon first glance?

Edited December 4, 2016 by theatremouse

[txhorns79]

Quote

I agree. A LOT of people use sex to soothe, and if you're 100% clear that that's what it is, I think that's fine. Rebecca said exactly that, in so many words. Now, Trent is Trent and he's pretty clearly going to get attached, but that'll be because he willfully disregards what Rebecca told him, not because Rebecca made him think their tryst was more than it was.

I don't know.  I think they've done a decent job of establishing that Trent is unbalanced, so that's pretty much on Rebecca for playing into his fantasy of them having a relationship, regardless of what she says.   

[alexa]

I pretty much hated this episode. I just really disliked Rebecca and everything she has done in regard to her relationship with Paula lately. The awkwardness she created at the forced party and then looking at her phone, etc just was all wrong. I also didn't like how she involved everyone in what she saw on her phone. I just feel like she is never going to grow up and it is very wearing to watch. 

[Snarklepuss]

I didn't love this episode either.  I feel like bringing Trent back was just done just to fill the void now that Santino/Greg left the show and Rebecca broke up with Josh.  I think the girl group is also filler for that too, but the show has made it's own filler into Rebecca's character's filler too as she tries to fill the void in her life due to the absence of the two men and Paula.  Only thing is it's going miserably all around as this episode might actually have purposely meant to get across.  The problem I have with that is that it's just as unsatisfying to watch as it probably will be for Rebecca the character in the next episode or so.  I realize the show had to switch gears somewhat when Santino left but I'm not loving the way it's going so far. 

I did appreciate Rebecca's realization that she's the one who got dumped by Paula, not the other way around.  I feel for her as I don't think she deserved all she got from Paula.  She may seem totally self absorbed at times and not notice what her friend is going through, but she's not so bad that if Paula said, "Hey I need you to focus on me" that she wouldn't snap out of it and do that for her.  In some ways I think Paula used Rebecca's self absorption as an excuse and blamed that instead of taking responsibility for her obsession with Rebecca's life and relationship problems.

I also didn't appreciate Rebecca asking Trent if he wanted to have sex.  She's not even into him so it just seemed so off and yucky to me.  I'd rather see the show at least try to make her attain a more healthy attitude towards relationships now that she is solo instead of being sexually so indiscriminate, especially with a total douche like Trent. 

[BigDfromLA]

Rebecca is the most socially retarded, nutcase I have ever seen in a character/person on a TV show. She needs professional help.

I agree. Vella Lovell is a very beautiful woman...she may be the most attractive woman acting in television today!

[txhorns79]

Quote

In some ways I think Paula used Rebecca's self absorption as an excuse and blamed that instead of taking responsibility for her obsession with Rebecca's life and relationship problems.

I think Paula already did take some responsibility for her obsession with Rebecca's life and problems when she had Rebecca sign that friendship contract a few episodes ago to scale back all the crazy shenanigans the two engaged in to further Rebecca's Josh fantasy.  I do want to tell both of them that it's okay if they grow apart.  The reality of their relationship, to me at least, was that it wasn't particularly stable to begin with.  They don't have a huge amount in common outside their work and both of them were using the relationship, initially, for purposes other than friendship.    

[theatremouse]

13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think Paula already did take some responsibility for her obsession with Rebecca's life and problems when she had Rebecca sign that friendship contract a few episodes ago to scale back all the crazy shenanigans the two engaged in to further Rebecca's Josh fantasy... They don't have a huge amount in common outside their work and both of them were using the relationship, initially, for purposes other than friendship.    

I think this touches on a good point which is: there is a difference between their relationship and their affection for each other. Pretty much the second Paula recognized how unhealthy they were both being, and did that contract thing, she drew a line. But she also made it so they didn't really know what to do with each other anymore. She doesn't know if Rebecca will/won't be genuinely supportive, because, Rebecca's right, she never gave her the chance. I do blame Rebecca for flaking and being late on the letter, but that's, to me, too different a situation from sitting down and talking to someone about something. It's sort of like...you can have a friend who you know is late for everything, and hold it against them and find it rude and inconsiderate, but that same person might be a really good listener, so you put up with them, because the rest of your friendship works, even if tardiness pisses you off. Not exactly the same thing here, but the nature of their relationship has changed so much, at Paula's behest, she really doesn't know what Rebecca's like when she's not in Josh-shenanigans mode. (Turns out: she's in other shenanigans mode.)

It's totally OK if they grow apart or don't have things in common, but I think they both don't want that to happen because they do genuinely care for each other. But since the origin of their friendship was doing sketchy stuff, now they don't know what to do with each other, but don't want to let each other go because there is real affection there, even without the shenanigans. On the one hand, it was presumptuous and obnoxious of Rebecca to assume Paula felt left out of her new friend group and to try and force her into it, but at the same time, it does show that the thought occurred to her she wasn't spending as much time with Paula and wanted to remedy that. She thought she hurt Paula and tried to fix it. Rebecca failed spectacularly, and it would've been nicer to just spend time with Paula but if intentions count for anything, I don't think it was entirely selfish of her to want to be inclusive. Tone deaf, yes. But if she really believed Paula felt left out, then trying to include her was a caring thing to do. She just totally misread the situation.

Edited December 6, 2016 by theatremouse

[txhorns79]

Quote

She doesn't know if Rebecca will/won't be genuinely supportive, because, Rebecca's right, she never gave her the chance. I do blame Rebecca for flaking and being late on the letter, but that's, to me, too different a situation from sitting down and talking to someone about something. It's sort of like...you can have a friend who you know is late for everything, and hold it against them and find it rude and inconsiderate, but that same person might be a really good listener, so you put up with them, because the rest of your friendship works, even if it tardiness pisses you off. Not exactly the same thing here, but the nature of their relationship has changed so much, at Paula's behest, she really doesn't know what Rebecca's like when she's not in Josh-shenanigans mode. (Turns out: she's in other shenanigans mode.)

I think this is right.  It's almost like an inherent weakness in the premise of the show, and makes me wonder if the show is sustainable in the long run.  Who is Rebecca without Josh?  Would she really be friends with any of these people if it wasn't with a Josh-related goal in mind?  Heck, does Rebecca's new friendship with Heather and Valencia seem forced?  Would either of them really want to hang out with Rebecca?  Heck, who is Josh if he isn't the guy Rebecca is pining for?      

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, theatremouse said:

She doesn't know if Rebecca will/won't be genuinely supportive, because, Rebecca's right, she never gave her the chance. I do blame Rebecca for flaking and being late on the letter, but that's, to me, too different a situation from sitting down and talking to someone about something

This is true.  Paula did seem to go more on a gut feeling of what Rebecca would do rather than a ton of experience. And yet I thought it was interesting that, during their confrontation, Rebecca spent almost as much time addressing comments to Sunil than she did having the discussion with Paula.  So she was kind of present and yet she wasn't.

[stillshimpy]

Well, I thought the episode made a lot of sense in a show that is about relationships, but not romantic ones.  None of the relationships on this show have been romantic in any healthy sense.  Rebecca and Greg accurately termed a shit show.   Rebecca and Josh, there's just no way that she actually loves someone whose internal emotional clock seems to be set to a "decently kind 18-year-old" .  His maturation seems to be somewhat stunted (that's about the kindest way to put that) .  She seems to be on deck to learn some kind of "that was a spectacularly bad idea, do not have sex with your stalker, you doof" lesson. 

Valencia's relationship with Joss also similarly seemed to be what she projected on to him as much as anything the long-term end-game guy is not the role Josh was born to play.   Then she seems to have not had actual friendships with women because she had always looked at them as competition.  Plus, she's got to be dealing with some feelings of loss.  

Heather's got the healthiest handle on life and she's kind of the narrative tour guide in a lot of ways. 

I didn't actually feel for Paula in any of this.  She sort of glommed onto Rebecca in the first place to try and add something fulfilling to her life.  She had a very hard time letting go of the concept of Josh as "the One" and that wasn't appropriate, to put it mildly.  I like Paula but she wasn't completely in the right here, by any stretch of the imagination.   She was right about the letter and then Paula was just plain old-fashioned wrong on the "but you didn't mean it".  Nope.  She can accurately say, "I decided not to tell you because I didn't think you could relate" or "you'd just proven that you are not very good at being there for me, what with the letter fail and all" but she doesn't get to assign the meaning to Rebecca's intent that way to make herself feel better.  

Plus, her new bestie is sort of a freaking creep, as far as I'm concerned.  He's way too invested in talking Rebecca down and for no good reason, other than he wants this friendship with Paula to help with his own feelings of loss.  He wants to be the sole emotional intimate of Paula and he's kind of grossly slagging on Rebecca.  Plus, Paula was being a damned child, texting him about how awful it was to be there.  I have no patience for that kind of crap and was firmly on Rebecca's side.  

Rebecca is also kind of a socially thwarted person, though.  Her mother defined her goals for her and apparently forced her to pursue many of them, without allowing her the kind of social development people need to have healthy relationships (friendship and otherwise) as adults.  So she's developing those skills late in life.   The sex toy party was a terrible idea, mostly because of the weirdo who was peddling the stuff and because Rebecca really shouldn't have tried to force Paula to become part of a group.  

That said, Paula was a jerk about it from start to finish.  Yes, I know, she just had an abortion but I think she's actually displacing a lot of anger and emotion onto Rebecca.  I genuinely didn't like her at all in this episode. 

Same thing with Darryl, who I usually love.  He was bullying someone who works for him.   It was gross.  I understand that he had enough self-insight to get why he was doing that and then make amends.  It's just a pity it was preceded by the revelation that Darryl apparently has a snot-mean side to him.  Not since he kept blurting weirdly racist stuff in the pilot has the show really gone inot why the man has so few friends.   Insecurity is one thing, demeaning and mocking a much younger person wasn't a good look for him.  Ugh. 

I liked the episode, but I did come out of it liking Darryl a lot less.   Paula didn't fare much better with me, truthfully. 

This must be the season where everyone gets to address their underlying issues and Paula's got her share. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Bruinsfan]

On 12/4/2016 at 4:21 PM, possibilities said:

Trent being obviously doing what Rebecca did with Josh, and Rebecca not seeing it, was awesome. Also, Josh being mocked for his painful 11 seconds of being single was great.

Pretty hypocritical coming from White Josh though, if his conga line of silver daddy exes at Electric Mesa is anything to go by. Still, he did re-earn my affection with that abrupt "I'm out!" after one too many creepy proclamations from Trent.

I too think Paula is being wildly unfair in blaming Rebecca for her own reluctance to share things that deeply matter to her. Rebecca may be flighty and unreliable, but she also is clearly supportive of Paula and would have tried to be there for her in her own weird way if she'd been told.

[AnnaRose]

6 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I thought Trent was hilarious. "I'm gonna chill with her friends, so the next time she sees me she will be like OMG he is normal, I'm in love." All his desperate bonding attempts with the guys were a lot of fun to watch too. I don't think he's creepy, as the show does only represent him as a desperate dork, but I think they should better not overexpose him.

I don't think he's creepy either.  Especially at the end of the episode when he knocked on Rebecca's door, he was actually very sweet, apologetic and surprisingly self-aware. The actor who plays Trent does a great job showing the character's underlying sweetness and vulnerability.   I also think it's interesting to see behavior that is similar to Rebecca's but from a different point of view.  Rebecca did the same kind of things trying to win Josh's affection, including spending lots of money and trying to get in with Josh's friend group because she thought it would lead to a romantic relationship with him. 

[possibilities]

19 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Did the show actually pass the Bechdel test this episode?

Paula and Rebecca talking/fighting about their friendship with each other. Rebecca, Heather, and Valencia socializing and enjoying each others' company.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Music from this episode:

Trent Is Getting Ready:

 

Friendtopia:

 

Stuck in the Bathroom:

 

And for anyone who hasn't watched Trapped in the Closet, here's Chapter 1 (warning: there are 33 chapters total so set aside two hours to watch everything from beginning to end):

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 12/3/2016 at 6:27 AM, Rinaldo said:

One thing that hampered my interaction with this episode was that both "Friendtopia" and "Stuck in the Bathroom" seemed to be very specific parodies of particular songs/videos that I don't know. I'm better off when they're engaging a whole style or genre (and still better if it's musical theater, my home territory). But that's not a complaint. Another week, I'll get the reference and someone else won't.

Friendtopia was a Spice Girls mashup. The song style was similar to "Spice Up Your Life." The "ziggazow," Rebecca's dress, and the roll call were similar to "Wannabe." Valencia's ponytail was very Sporty Spice but her outfit was more Posh Spice. Heather's naturally curly hair was pumped up in volume to resemble Scary Spice (although I thought her outfit could have been worn by Scary or Sporty).

 

[Sara2009]

On December 5, 2016 at 8:42 PM, stillshimpy said:

Well, I thought the episode made a lot of sense in a show that is about relationships, but not romantic ones.  None of the relationships on this show have been romantic in any healthy sense.  Rebecca and Greg accurately termed a shit show.   Rebecca and Josh, there's just no way that she actually loves someone whose internal emotional clock seems to be set to a "decently kind 18-year-old" .  His maturation seems to be somewhat stunted (that's about the kindest way to put that) .  She seems to be on deck to learn some kind of "that was a spectacularly bad idea, do not have sex with your stalker, you doof" lesson. 

Valencia's relationship with Joss also similarly seemed to be what she projected on to him as much as anything the long-term end-game guy is not the role Josh was born to play.   Then she seems to have not had actual friendships with women because she had always looked at them as competition.  Plus, she's got to be dealing with some feelings of loss.  

Heather's got the healthiest handle on life and she's kind of the narrative tour guide in a lot of ways. 

I didn't actually feel for Paula in any of this.  She sort of glommed onto Rebecca in the first place to try and add something fulfilling to her life.  She had a very hard time letting go of the concept of Josh as "the One" and that wasn't appropriate, to put it mildly.  I like Paula but she wasn't completely in the right here, by any stretch of the imagination.   She was right about the letter and then Paula was just plain old-fashioned wrong on the "but you didn't mean it".  Nope.  She can accurately say, "I decided not to tell you because I didn't think you could relate" or "you'd just proven that you are not very good at being there for me, what with the letter fail and all" but she doesn't get to assign the meaning to Rebecca's intent that way to make herself feel better.  

Plus, her new bestie is sort of a freaking creep, as far as I'm concerned.  He's way too invested in talking Rebecca down and for no good reason, other than he wants this friendship with Paula to help with his own feelings of loss.  He wants to be the sole emotional intimate of Paula and he's kind of grossly slagging on Rebecca.  Plus, Paula was being a damned child, texting him about how awful it was to be there.  I have no patience for that kind of crap and was firmly on Rebecca's side.  

Rebecca is also kind of a socially thwarted person, though.  Her mother defined her goals for her and apparently forced her to pursue many of them, without allowing her the kind of social development people need to have healthy relationships (friendship and otherwise) as adults.  So she's developing those skills late in life.   The sex toy party was a terrible idea, mostly because of the weirdo who was peddling the stuff and because Rebecca really shouldn't have tried to force Paula to become part of a group.  

That said, Paula was a jerk about it from start to finish.  Yes, I know, she just had an abortion but I think she's actually displacing a lot of anger and emotion onto Rebecca.  I genuinely didn't like her at all in this episode. 

Same thing with Darryl, who I usually love.  He was bullying someone who works for him.   It was gross.  I understand that he had enough self-insight to get why he was doing that and then make amends.  It's just a pity it was preceded by the revelation that Darryl apparently has a snot-mean side to him.  Not since he kept blurting weirdly racist stuff in the pilot has the show really gone inot why the man has so few friends.   Insecurity is one thing, demeaning and mocking a much younger person wasn't a good look for him.  Ugh. 

I liked the episode, but I did come out of it liking Darryl a lot less.   Paula didn't fare much better with me, truthfully. 

This must be the season where everyone gets to address their underlying issues and Paula's got her share. 

In fairness to the show, Darryl was mean to Mya last season too. It's not a good look for him, but it's consistent.

[Eolivet]

This episode was sooooooooo uncomfortable to watch. I hate cringe comedy with the passion of a thousand burning whatevers, and I think the show has always done a relatively good job of keeping Rebecca on the sympathetic side of pathetic to nimbly walk that line (the only time I thought they crossed it was on the party bus with Rebecca's exotic dancing). But this took a thousand foot leap over the line. Rebecca's forced girl group was bad enough, and then to add Trent to it, and the parade of awkward that was Daryl and Maya? I was just hiding my face the whole time. I was basically Paula and this show was Rebecca, and I wondered why my subversive feminist musical comedy had turned into a particularly bad parody of Frasier (complete with the opening of doors and random people coming in each time).

There were some good elements -- loved the Rebecca and Paula (the real love story of this show!) discussion, found Rebecca sleeping with Trent interesting on a story level, enjoyed the music, some of Heather's commentary and how Rebecca kept characterizing Sunil as random characters from musicals. The rest? Nope, nope, nope. As this episode proved, you can't force an episode about forcing relationships. It ends up uncomfortable for all involved. But mainly for me.

[Leia1979]

I found the parallels between Trent and Rebecca interesting. Trent really isn't doing anything worse than Rebecca did in season one, but he comes off so much creepier. Is it because he's more socially awkward? Is it because he's male and therefore perceived as more threatening? 

I love how direct Heather is. I enjoy how she and Hector don't hesitate to call out what the audience is thinking. Also, the Spice Girls parody was awesome. Trapped in the Bathroom was fun, too, though I'm really only familiar with the excellent Weird Al version, Trapped in the Drive-Thru.

[theatremouse]

2 hours ago, Leia1979 said:

I found the parallels between Trent and Rebecca interesting. Trent really isn't doing anything worse than Rebecca did in season one, but he comes off so much creepier. Is it because he's more socially awkward? Is it because he's male and therefore perceived as more threatening?

I think it's 1) he's not been presented as the protagonist, so we don't get as much info about him, haven't been led to sympathize with him from the start. Basically to buy into the premise of the show, you have to be willing to go on the ride with Rebecca that this is what she's doing, even if you're screaming "noooooo don't!" at her, the show is about her so there's a subconscious sort of "well yeah if it were real this would be monstrous but she's 'safe' because she's the lead". Plus RB is endearing. 2)Trent by being someone brought in later, we only see him in smaller snippets, there's less, for lack of better phrase, bonding with him. So we only see the creepy moments. Nothing else. You could edit Rebecca down to her creepiest statements and make her seem just as creepy if you saw less of her. 3)He sort of has sinister eyebrows? 4) There's a tone to the actor's delivery...not...monotonous really but somehow flatter, that kind of reads classic movie psycho killer to me. It's not just what he says (which is comparable to Rebecca) it's how he says it (which leans more in the direction of Norman Bates).

That said, I credit the actor because it's actually kind of subtle. He doesn't go full stereotype creepy-voice. It's there enough to be off-putting but not so much that it doesn't give me pause over exactly what you just said: why do I find him so much creepier than Rebecca?

Edited December 11, 2016 by theatremouse