S04.E03: Breaker Of Chains 2014.04.20

[Tara Ariano]

 

Tyrion considers his options; Tywin extends an olive branch; Sam questions the safety of Castle Black; Jon proposes a plan; the Hound teaches Arya; Dany chooses her champion.

 

Reminder: This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. next weeks preview) should be in spoiler tags.

[TooMuchCoffee]

And Littlefinger climbs another rung on the ladder of chaos.  Damn, he is creepy.

I continue to be impressed by how much they can pack into one episode.

Edited April 21, 2014 by TooMuchCoffee

[bluvelvet]

Can I just say, how many fucks did Tywin NOT give that Joffrey was dead. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if he did the deed himself. He and Olenna are already planning for the future of their houses. Tywin has already started taking Tommen under his wing and is already grooming him for the role of king and he already planted the idea of marriage in young impressionable Tommen's head.  While on the other end, Olenna is already basically telling Margery to start working on Tommen.   Tywin and Olenna are not about to end the Lannister/Tyrell alliance.

Meanwhile, Tywin is so smooth, he essentially too his enemy Oberyn and made him his ally by promising him the Mountain.  In that one conversation he now has the Martells of Dorne, who we find out is the only ones to have resisted dragons in the past.

I honestly don't know what to make of the scene between Jaime/Cersei and Cersei asks Jaime to kill Tyrion while in the same episode, Tyrion is asking for Jaime because he needs his brother.  Let's just say that Jaime will be in a rock and a hard place because he is essentially has to choose between his siblings.  Tyrion must have some faith because he knows the hold Cersei has over Jaime.

I don't like Sam leaving Gilly at that place, for some reason I think it will not go as he had planned.

Dany is liberating another city, you know on the previews I thought she would do it in this episode but it looks like it will be stretched out.

Littlefinger, I was shocked when he popped up and he still gives me the skeeves in regards to Sansa. I was also shocked that the necklace wasn't real, so Littlefinger is the one who orchestrated Sansa's escape, interesting?.  Also is it me or did the actors voice change.

[AzureOwl]

I must say, for all their faults, at least Meereen has better decorators and architects than Qarth. The city looks gorgeous!

[Ceeg]

Ugh Littlefinger gives me the creeps, and I had not missed him the past two episodes. I don't know that Sansa is much safer with him than with the Lannisters. It's just a different kind of danger.

And sweet little Tommen. I like him. I'm sure this will end badly.

I honestly have no idea what the point of Dany's storyline is right now. I love her, she's one of my favorites, and I love all her scenes. I just don't quite get how it ties into the rest of what's going on.

[TrininisaScorp]

I couldn't believe the amount of characters we got tonight! 

I wondered when we'd see Littlefinger again.  TooMuchCoffee, seriously!  In show full of creepy creepers, I actually sat further back on my couch from the moment Littlefinger started interacting with Sansa.  I don't know what he has in mind for her, but I'm wondering if she's jumped from the frying pan into the pervy fire.  Shudder.

Charles Dance is a bad dude (meant in the most complimentary terms)!  His scenes with Tommen and Oberyn were both amazing.  I know Tywin is a "bad guy", but the level of practicality he brings is a breathe of fresh air on this show.  I wonder what the long-term plan with the Dornish really entails because you know he has one.  This is not a man you play in a game of chess. 

Little doses of Dany works for me.  I like her excuses to Grey Worm, Jorah and Selmy.  I think the reason for Grey Worm makes sense, but Selmy (dude, you're old) and Jorah (dude, you're lame) got the gentle letdown from their queen.  Loved Dany's mental game with the barrels of shackles.

Arya and the Hound are so compelling.  Out of all the characters, I feel like I could follow these two without losing interest for the entire hour.  

The Wall stuff with Sam/Gilly doesn't really do anything for me, but I'm assuming we are spending time here because it is important.  At least, I hope all that time will amount to something important.  That said, Jon being a little more forceful and using his brain has been a nice change of pace this season.  Truth be told, I'm still a little confused about who is who at The Wall; all the characters, save Jon and Sam, blend together for me.

The less said about Cercei and Jamie, the better.  Pass the brain bleach, people. 

[bluvelvet]

And sweet little Tommen. I like him. I'm sure this will end badly.

 

I hope not, I really like Tommen, since Olenna basically told Margery to get a movin on potential husband #3, I am curious to see how she interacts with him.

 

--deleted--

Have to say that I loved that scene with the "champion" and Daario, dude is charging at him full speed ahead and he just throws a knife. Reminded me of the Indiana Jones movie where they guy come at him swinging a knife/sword every which way and he just shoots him.

Edited April 21, 2014 by bluvelvet
Fixed broken link.

[lmn]

First off, damn you Game of Thrones! I should not be happy to see Littlefinger, I should not!

However, like everyone else has mentioned, the man gives me the creeps. I would like to think that Sansa would be safer with him, but alas, I can see this  arrangement going sour really quickly. Speaking of Sansa, I just hope that she gets away from Kings Landing and fast [but based on the preview for the next episode, I have a bad feeling that the Lannisters will end up finding her].

Now onto Arya and the Hound, I could watch these two characters for the whole hour and not get bored. The way that these two characters interact with each other is just fabulous. I have to say that for all of his faults, the Hound (like Davos) seems to have the most common sense as far as the world of Westeros is concerned.

Man, there is so much to say about this episode [they sure packed a lot of material within a short amount of time], but I will just say this:

*Oberyn continues to impress (his willingness to be blunt with/about the Lannisters, while somewhat idiotic, makes him a character that continues to intrigue me)

*Tywin continues to be one step ahead of everyone else politically, no suprise, but the fact that he does not care about Joffery's death makes me wonder if he has a hand in the plot to kill Joffery ... or he just knows that Tommen will be a better king?

*Jamie and Cersei... yeah, lets skip them [though it is interesting note that after all the development that happened with the character in season three, Jamie seems to be losing that now he is reunited with Cersei, granted it is too early to say].

*It makes me sad to say this, but the Dany storyline is becoming dull. I understand that they have to build up that story line before she can (or if she does anyways) comes to Westeros. But at least we didn't see much of her in this episode.

I have a feeling I am missing some characters, but overall a good episode.

Edited April 21, 2014 by lmn

[CletusMusashi]

Was that slave they did the final closeup on supposed to be Barrack Obama? 

Yeesh. As if conservative old noblemen didn't hate her enough already...

Edited April 21, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[thuganomics85]

I bet that was an interesting day, when they told Jack Gleeson what his final scene is.  "Hey, Jack.  We need you to appear briefly appear in episode 3, playing your corpse, while your character's father rapes your mother."  Fucked up scene, right there.

I feel like, in another life, Tywin and Olenna would have been a perfect, unstoppable couple.  Both of them wasted no time in making sure their shit was together. Olenna is already prepping Margaery to be Tommen's new bride, while Tywin is not only grooming Tommen when Joffery's body isn't even cold yet, but he's decided to appease a future problem, Oberyn, by offering him The Mountain. Smooth as fuck, is Tywin Lannister.  I do hope that Oberyn won't just take him on his word though.  Be smart about this, Oberyn!

Congrats, Sansa!  You've escaped King's Landing.  Intot he hands of Littlefinger, Westeros' Number One Creeper.  Poor girl.  At least she isn't Tyrion.  I can't see how he will get out of this.

Loved that Margaery brought up the whole "My husbands keep dying on me!" thing.  Glad someone is pointing out that obvious bit.

Jon Snow continues to be the most improved guy this season.  I like him more vocal and confident, as oppose to the normal "Oh, whoa is me!  It's hard out there for a bastard!" stuff from him.

Waiting for Daenerys stuff to get more interesting, but I do like the theme music that kicks in, anytime she "liberates" a city.  Emilia Clarke should have that be played, whenever she shows up to an event.

Arya and The Hound are already back to fighting each other.  They're so wacky!

[Katiepenn]

 

Congrats, Sansa!  You've escaped King's Landing.  Intot he hands of Littlefinger, Westeros' Number One Creeper.

Littlefinger was always creepy, but even more so with Sansa - considering he was always holding a torch for Catelyn and he's even mentioned how much Sansa looks like her mom. Ew.

Also, I have to believe Oberyn is smarter than to just take Tywin's word. That would make it all way too easy. And while Tywin is certainly the most pragmatic and forward-thinking of the powermongers in King's Landing, it can't always be easy for him.

[ShellSeeker]

Have to say that I loved that scene with the "champion" and Daario, dude is charging at him full speed ahead and he just throws a knife. Reminded me of the Indiana Jones movie where they guy come at him swinging a knife/sword every which way and he just shoots him.

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking about too. 

By far the best scene for me was Tywin schooling Tommen about what makes a good king. I loved that he did it right in front of Cersei, and loved even more when he bluntly stated that Joffrey was not a good king. Charles Dance is such a good actor, being able to make me sometimes really hate Tywin, and then sometimes respect and almost like him.

The only thing that I think may keep Sansa safe is that Littlefinger was in love with Catelyn his whole life. So he may want to protect her. But maybe not...that dude is pretty fucking creepy. He is smart though - he was right to kill the drunken fool (can't remember his name), even though I was sad to see that. I'm sure he had every intention of keeping his word and not telling anyone how he helped Sansa escape, but once the Lannisters got a hold of him it would have been just a matter of time before he spilled everything he knew.

I was sorry to see Jaime and Cersei hook up. I loved that he called her "a hateful woman," and then it just got all kinds of creepy and wrong. Yeesh! I need something to gouge out my mind's eye!

Edited April 21, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[Turtle]

Well, that was fun.  And intense.  I was both surprised at how much they fit in to an hour, and surprised when the hour was over.  So, well done, show.  

I love the Arya & The Hound Show as much as anyone, but I was glad to see a reminder of just how not-kind Sandor is.  For a split second, I found myself thinking that they might really stay there and work for a bit, help protect the farm/ area.  And that's ridiculous!  Of course Sandor wouldn't do that.  Of course he's going to not only eat all the food but also knock the guy out and steal the silver!  So it was good, for me, to be reminded that he is not actually a "bad guy with a heart of gold."  Still love them, mind you, but I was glad to be forced back in to remembering who he really is.  Probably not a bad idea for Arya to be reminded, either.

Poor Sam (and little Sam and Gilly) - no good choices there.  

Littlefinger creeps me out in such a fun way.  That guy is shady with a capital S.  But also shrewd with a capital S, I guess.  And Sansa remains clueless and easily manipulated.  Bless her heart. 

[Conan Troutman]

- It seems like Littlefinger was behind Joffrey's death. The fool, unsurprisingly, was totally in it and already had prepared Sansa's escape. Of course he couldn't be allowed to live. Too bad he was so, well, foolish. Or, to quote Tyrion: Is there an idiot in any village who trusts Littlefinger? Well, apparently yes. As far as the necklace goes: Olenna did take the jewel, but it seems that wasn't some kind of poison, but I guess she wanted to find out where the hell it came from. So this might lead to a Tyrell vs Littlefinger showdown at some point, if it's not just a red herring. As for Sansa: Things just keep getting worse and worse for her. At least she's kinda somewhat safe now or something like that, but that simply can't last long...

 

- Tyrion said something like "Whoever killed Joffrey wanted to get rid of me, too". Makes me wonder: If it was indeed Littlefinger, why would he want Tyrion out of the way? Did he steal a huge amount of money from the crown and wants to cover that up?  And if so, does he want to use the Iron Bank to get the means to conquer the Iron Throne? That seems like a move directly out of his book. But maybe Ser Davos will interfere with that one.

 

- Cersei and Jamie, whoa, they're even more fucked up than we already knew (and that's saying something!). I guess that was a very unsubtle way to show us how Cersei brings the worst out of Jamie. Don't really mind her being raped by her twin brother besides her murdered son, though, even if I didn't think I'd ever write that sentence. Bitch really had it coming, so no pity from me.

[AlliMo]

Tywin knows how to work people as well as he does because he understands what motivates them. I suspect, however, that when it comes to Oberyn, he has no idea just how clueless he is.

Dany sure knows how to drop the mic, doesn't she.

[bunnyblue]

I liked the episode well enough, although nothing really happened.

Poor Dontos. He was decent guy who helped Sansa and all he got was an arrow to the chest. Littlefinger has creepy rapist written all over his face. It was clear last season that his obsession with Cat was transferred to her daughter, and now he has her all to himself on his ship. He was far too touchy-feely and whispery with Sansa. I hope she's learned by now not to trust anyone.

I continue to love Arya and the Hound. But the longer the scene with the Farmer and his daughter went on, the more I feared the Hound was going to kill them right there at the dinner table. The Hound didn't seem as cuddly as usual so I was glad he only ended up robbing the farmer and not killing him. I've grown to love Arya and the Hound and didn't want their verbal sparring and mentor/mentee relationship to come to a screeching halt. I did love their joint slurping of the stew. Arya's forgotten all table manners.

So, Jaime is a rapist now? I felt a twinge of sympathy for Cersei in that moment. She just wanted to grieve their son and Jaime just wanted to get laid next to a corpse? As if they didn't have enough of a twisted relationship, now they've gone and added rape into the the mix?

Oh, Tyrion. No one to testify on his behalf. Sansa has "abandoned" him and Jaime hasn't gone to see him. His goodbye to Pod was sad. He was a good & loyal squire. I hope no harm comes to Pod. I don't trust that Tywin or Cersei will let him leave Tyrion's service without punishing him.

The thought never crossed my mind that Gilly could be in danger at Castle Black until Sam pointed it out. Most of those watchmen are rapists so I guess it was wise getting her out of there, but I don't know that she's any safer with her baby in a whorehouse.

Oh, Oberyn. I hope he doesn't regret getting into bed with Tywin. I didn't buy for one second Tywin's denial about being responsible for Elia's death.

Is Dany's story ever going to pick up steam? She is now on her 3rd city. What is she going to do with thousands more slaves? How does she feed and shelter the former slaves she's already got? I guess the show would be over if she just marched on King's Landing with her Dragons and the Unsullied, but watching her take on slave owners isn't as exciting as if she were taking down the Lannisters. And Gods, do I want to see that! 

[dramachick]

Ugh at the twincest on the dead body of their evil spawn.

Haven't 3 kings died under Jaime's so-called protection?  I'm surprised Tommen didn't give him the side-eye.

Loved Lady Olenna's line to Margery:  "You'll do better with the next one."

Oh lord.  Sansa's with pervy Littlefinger.  Is there no end to her torture?  Please, please let her stab him.

I still hate the Hound.

Boo at Stannis.  Of course, nobody wants to fight for him because he burns people!  Davos is too good for him.  What does Davos know that would persuade the Iron Bank to loan Stannis money?  Is Tywin going to default on his loan and then the bank will fund Stannis?  Hmm.

Why are Ygritte and the Thenn-cannibals killing villagers?  I'm confused.

I hope Sam doesn't leave Gilly in that filthy place. 

Ed and Grenn are alive!  Is Jon saying that they should go back to Craster's and kill the traitors? 

I don't care about Danerys.

Poor Tyrion!  I hope Pod listens to him and saves himself. 

Edited April 21, 2014 by sukeyna

[dramachick]

I liked the episode well enough, although nothing really happened.

Poor Dontos. He was decent guy who helped Sansa and all he got was an arrow to the chest. Littlefinger has creepy rapist written all over his face. It was clear last season that his obsession with Cat was transferred to her daughter, and now he has her all to himself on his ship. He was far too touchy-feely and whispery with Sansa. I hope she's learned by now not to trust anyone.

Oh, Oberyn. I hope he doesn't regret getting into bed with Tywin. I didn't buy for one second Tywin's denial about being responsible for Elia's death.

Is Dany's story ever going to pick up steam? She is now on her 3rd city. What is she going to do with thousands more slaves? How does she feed and shelter the former slaves she's already got? I guess the show would be over if she just marched on King's Landing with her Dragons and the Unsullied, but watching her take on slave owners isn't as exciting as if she were taking down the Lannisters. And Gods, do I want to see that! 

I didn't believe Tywin either.  Curse you Tywin!

Dany's story doesn't interest me at all.  If she can get her army across the sea, what then?  There's not enough food in Westeros to feed the folks who live there.  Winter is coming, and these people are from the desert, so what are they gonna wear?

[Conan Troutman]

Winter is coming, and these people are from the desert, so what are they gonna wear?

It's Games of Thrones, so probably nothing...

 

 

[Lady S.]

I liked the episode well enough, although nothing really happened.

Poor Dontos. He was decent guy who helped Sansa and all he got was an arrow to the chest. Littlefinger has creepy rapist written all over his face. It was clear last season that his obsession with Cat was transferred to her daughter, and now he has her all to himself on his ship. He was far too touchy-feely and whispery with Sansa. I hope she's learned by now not to trust anyone.

....

So, Jaime is a rapist now? I felt a twinge of sympathy for Cersei in that moment. She just wanted to grieve their son and Jaime just wanted to get laid next to a corpse? As if they didn't have enough of a twisted relationship, now they've gone and added rape into the the mix?

....

Oh, Oberyn. I hope he doesn't regret getting into bed with Tywin. I didn't buy for one second Tywin's denial about being responsible for Elia's death.

Dontos helped Sansa right into Littlefinger's lap all for the sake of gold instead of actual gratittude. He probably didn't know what creepiness what creepiness she'd be in for with Littlefinger, but still not that helpful, and with this show his motive probably was greed rather than altruism.

Even if by some chance, Gregor really did go rogue when he met Elia Martell, Tywin is still responsible for everything that happened. He clearly didn't care that he an uncontrollable rapist-murderer in his ranks, instead that made The Mountain useful to him and he sent him out to do the same in the Riverlands during the next civil war. And he can't he very deny the murder of Elia's children, saying they were the only intended targets isn't a hell of a lot better.

As much as I was disturbed by the altar rape, I'm not in the camp that thinks Jaime is on any redemption train and don't even think this is terribly OOC for the man who said he'd fight a war for her c***, killing everyone until they were the only two people left in the world. It's never been the case that poor Jaime is Cersei's loveslave and she just doesn't care about him in return--that was more Cersei's relationship with Lancel. Even if she weren't cold-hearted and self-absorbed, it'd be hard to reciprocate Jaime's feelings because they're insanely obsessive feelings. Does he truly love Cersei for herself? He knows what an awful person she is (hint to Jaime: I don't think the gods had anything to do with making you want this woman), and I don't think he's just now figuring it out, it's just the first time her awfulness has negativly impacted Jaime. He knows and he still has to have her. It's his lowest moment and this time there are no excuses. Again, rape as a plot device still not the best choice.

Nice of Jaime to attempt to check up on how his younger nephew/son is doing before raping the boy's mother next to the elder nephew/son's corpse. Father and brother of the year matierial here.

ETA:

Why are Ygritte and the Thenn-cannibals killing villagers? I'm confused.

I hope Sam doesn't leave Gilly in that filthy place.

They wanted to get the Night's Watch to come south to fight them to deplete the defendors at Castle Black guarding the Wall, so the rest of Mance's army can breach the Wall's gates when they attack from the other side. Similar to how Theon first attacked Torrhen's Square to lure Winterfell's guards away. I'm actually impressed Jon Snow isn't as easily tricked as his little brother. I wouldn't have given him that much credit in S2.

Noticed Hannah Murray is moved to the main credits, so Gilly should at least last the season.

For anyone interested in the nudity %s we saw the male Ros's junk for the second time tonight. And the tip from the Meereen champion.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Lady S.

[Potanical Pardon]

Is Dany's story ever going to pick up steam? She is now on her 3rd city. What is she going to do with thousands more slaves? How does she feed and shelter the former slaves she's already got? I guess the show would be over if she just marched on King's Landing with her Dragons and the Unsullied, but watching her take on slave owners isn't as exciting as if she were taking down the Lannisters. And Gods, do I want to see that!

I have a feeling that is the point of her arc. It's not just to simply gain an army and go storm Westeros for her birthright. As Tywin even said this episode, what would be the point of that? She'd just be the same as Robert - a winner doesn't make a good ruler. Her arc, I believe is to show her growing and learning how to rule a people. She's going to quickly have to confront the other side of freeing slaves - it's nice and great, noble, yadda-yadda, but you can't just go freeing people and expect world peace. She's destabilizing economies in Esos and as you said will quickly realize that she's going to have to find a way to make all these followers of hers maintain not just loyalty, but its own new economy along with keeping them well fed, healthy, skilled/trained, and frankly just happy. These lessons will/would probably serve her well if she ever did return to Westeros and ended up ruling again.

 

Boo at Stannis.  Of course, nobody wants to fight for him because he burns people!  Davos is too good for him.  What does Davos know that would persuade the Iron Bank to loan Stannis money?  Is Tywin going to default on his loan and then the bank will fund Stannis?  Hmm.

Why are Ygritte and the Thenn-cannibals killing villagers?  I'm confused.

Ed and Grenn are alive!  Is Jon saying that they should go back to Craster's and kill the traitors?

Davos was hanging out with Stannis back when Stannis was part of Robert's Small Council (even though we never saw it...but he was mentioned as being part of it for years, like Renly), so he would be well aware of Robert's reign involving many loans being taken out under the realm's name via Littlefinger's oversight as Master of Coin. He knows Westeros was in debt then, and still is now as we see of utmost concern to Tywin, hence Tywin needing the Tyrell's money to help pay things off. Ned brought up the loans during the tournament nonsense. Tyrion even has a line in the episode where he's studying about finance with Bronn, in particular with loans. Bronn asks, "What if you don't pay it back?" and Tyrion shares that the Iron Bank will always find a way to get paid, including financing the enemies. This is what Davos gleamed on. He suddenly realized, whoa, he can get the support of the Iron Bank to finance ships and armies to take back Westeros in return for them getting paid back.

Ygritte, the Thenns and other Wildlings attacked the villagers specifically to draw out the Night's Watch towards them so that The Wall would be weakened for Mance's attack. This is part of Mance's plan. That said, Mance still thinks there are 1000+ Night's Watchmen, from Jon's lie to him. This is why Jon also prompts the Night's Watch that they have to go back to Craster's and kill the mutineers, because once Mance gets to Craster's he's going to realize quickly that Jon lied to him (by torturing the mutineers for info) and that there are only 100 max (if we include Maester Aemon) Night's Watchmen and will know that he and the Wildlings don't have to be cautious at all and can easily destroy the Night's Watch and get passed The Wall.

 

Even if by some chance, Gregor really did go rogue when he met Elia Martell, Tywin is still responsible for everything that happened. He clearly didn't care that he an uncontrollable rapist-murderer in his ranks, instead that made The Mountain useful to him and he sent him out to do the same in the Riverlands during the next civil war. And he can't he very deny the murder of Elia's children, saying they were the only intended targets isn't a hell of a lot better.

I'm an instant fan of Oberyn and so I'm hoping that he's smart enough to realize that he can still dick over Tywin and not go through with any part of the offered deal because Tywin needs him more than the Martells need him. Council seat, The Mountain for his vote? Nah not enough.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Tandaemonium

[terrymct]

Can I just say, how many fucks did Tywin NOT give that Joffrey was dead. Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if he did the deed himself. He and Olenna are already planning for the future of their houses. Tywin has already started taking Tommen under his wing and is already grooming him for the role of king and he already planted the idea of marriage in young impressionable Tommen's head.  While on the other end, Olenna is already basically telling Margery to start working on Tommen.   Tywin and Olenna are not about to end the Lannister/Tyrell alliance.

 

The scene with Twyin, Tommen, and Cersea over Joffrey's corpse was amazing.  Twyin told Cersea, without saying out loud, that Joffrey was HER king whom she screwed it up and that Tommen is HIS king and he's going to do it right.

I really, really didn't get the Cersea and Jaime scene.  Was that their "break up"?  Was that rape?  The only think I know for sure is that it was skeevy as heck.

 

Boo at Stannis.  Of course, nobody wants to fight for him because he burns people!  Davos is too good for him.  What does Davos know that would persuade the Iron Bank to loan Stannis money?  Is Tywin going to default on his loan and then the bank will fund Stannis?  Hmm.

I think Davos is trying to convince the Iron Bank to call in some of King's Landing's loans, which would undermine Twyin's ability to fight back against Stannis' troops even if his army isn't huge.   It will also cause Twyin to stress his relationships with other houses such as the Tyrells' when he has to hit them up for money, yet again.   It seems like a very clever move.

 

I agree with folks who are wondering when Dany will finally finish wandering around Esteros.   I think that she and the White Walkers are the long play threats to Westeros.  We'll see a bunch more fighting and maneuvering among the various houses and kings, then as things are seeming to reach some kind of point, they'll have major attacks from both the north and south/east.  Caught between ice and fire.

I'm curious about what's being set up at Castle Black.  You have the Night Watch, or what's left of them, hunkering down in the Castle (why aren't they sending out ravens asking for reinforcements, btw?).  Then you have wildlings coming from at least two directions.  Then, there's Roose Bolton's bannermen headed up there to grab a male Stark heir or bastard, anyone will do really.   Will the Bolton group run into the cannibal wildlings first or make it to either where Bran is or the Castle first?  And speaking of Bran, are we going to see the wildling lady who used to take care of Bran?  I wonder if she'll pop up again when someone, say Bolton's men, threaten Bran.

Edited April 21, 2014 by terrymct

[Neurochick]

 

- Cersei and Jamie, whoa, they're even more fucked up than we already knew (and that's saying something!). I guess that was a very unsubtle way to show us how Cersei brings the worst out of Jamie. Don't really mind her being raped by her twin brother besides her murdered son, though, even if I didn't think I'd ever write that sentence. Bitch really had it coming, so no pity from me.

You mean beside the body of their murdered son, which makes it even sicker.  That scene was gross, yet hot at the same time. 

I want Dani's story to get more interesting, but I liked her champion; wasn't he on that show Merlin?

Littlefinger is SO creepy, Sansa look out!

I'm tired of the Wall but I can't wait until that red haired chick bites it.  I can't stand the way she'd say, "Jon Snow."  Can't stand him either.

Does Cersei have to marry Margery's brother now?  Poor Margery, she give new meaning to "black widow."  Grandma was right though, Margery's better off a widow than that little shit's wife.

[Constantinople]

I'm guessing raping his sister beside their son's dead body won't be one of the great deeds that goes into Ser Jaime's entry in the Big Book of Kuhniggets.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the reasons I enjoy Oberyn so much is that he is so non-plussed whenever he is confronted by a Lannister. Trying to talk shit to me at a royal wedding? I will insult you with a smile! Barge in while I'm having sexy times with a roomful of hookers? Come on in and have some wine! I don't think he's stupid enough to take Tywin at his word, but he also knows that being on the small council will benefit his country for the time being and it will allow him closer proximity to the Lannisters if he wants to cut a bitch.. If nothing else, it will allow him to keep an eye on Tywin and the discussions going on behind the scenes while he plots some revenge.

Poor Podrick. He is trying so hard to do right by Tyrion and not seeing the big picture. Now that Tyrion has spelled it out for him, I hope Podrick is smart enough to take his advice and get the hell out of Kings Landing. As much as I love his sweet loyalty, I'd rather seem Pod escape with his life.

[marcee]

"It's not right...it's not right."

No, no Cersei. It's not. It's SO not.

[KurlyGrl]

Kuhniggets!!!  Isn’t Shireen just the cutest thing!!!!  I love her relationship with Davos.  Well, Davos had better come up with a plan because otherwise he’d be set on fire or killed some other way.  Didn’t Stannis hint as much?

I know The Hound is no good, but I felt so bad that he clonked that farmer and stole the silver.  Well, at least he didn’t kill the man.  Arya was shocked, too.  But The Hound is The Hound.  A leopard can’t change his spots.  I guess I should have seen that coming. 

I just wanna slap some sense into Sansa.  How is it possible that anyone is THAT gullible???  My 8 year old son has more sense than her.  She has never once made a decision on her own and has had her life managed (manipulated) by everyone around her. When is that girl gonna open her eyes and put her foot down.  Don’t know if she is safer or not with pervy Littlefinger.  I presume they are going to crazy Lyssa’s?

So, OK.  Littlefinger orchestrated Joffrey’s death.  But who actually put the poison in Joffrey’s  drink??

Jaime, WTF!!!  Why can’t you leave “That Hateful Woman” alone!  Geeze. Ever since he came back, Cersei has been pushing him aside.  She is over him.  Move on, Jaime.  And I swear, I would have sworn that Joffrey would have come tumbling down on top of them.  LOL!!  I would have had to turn the TV off. 

Tywin and Oberyn. Well, Oberyn is not stupid.  He understands the game and is willing to play.  Can’t wait to see how that goes. 

Tyrion is all kinds of screwed.  No witness for his side.  They even got to Pod to try and turn his coat.  What about Bronn?  Don’t remember if he is available as a witness for Tyrion.  Shae would have been.  But she’s gone.  Maybe.  She’ll probably witness against Tyrion considering how hurt she is. 

I like Dany’s storyline.  It’s slow, yes, but a gal has to build her army.  How else is she going to win the throne?  Just walk up to it and sit down? She’s a good ruler.  She’s smart.  She’s patient.  By the way, where is her Kalisar?  Those that came with her from when Khal Drogo died?  Weren’t there three of them with her.  They seem to have disappeared.  Unless they were all killed at some point.  It caught my attention when she was selecting her champion and I saw none of them.

[JTMacc99]

Ah the necklace. Not an episode goes by without some talk about that necklace. I noticed that it got tossed into the boat with the dead fool. I wonder if it still has more story in it.

[Joimiaroxeu]

"It's not right...it's not right."

No, no Cersei. It's not. It's SO not.

IKR? It's certainly awful for any woman to be raped under any circumstances but Cersei just now has a problem with being screwed by her brother? Or was it the setting she objected to? They did sort of desecrate the corpse of both their son and their former king.

[Constantinople]

Nice of Tyrion not to think about his wife at all until he was putting together a list of witnesses.

But cheer-up Tyrion, it looks as if they've put you in the deluxe dungeon cell. It's much nicer than Ned Stark's.

Plus, your cell has 4 walls!

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Nick's post on the episode!

[Constantinople]

I'm surprised the mutiny at Craster's was news to the Night's Watch given that Sam was at Craster's when the mutiny started and has been at Castle Black since the end of last season.  I wouldn't expect Sam to know all the details that Grenn & Ed knew, but he knew something.

Perhaps I missed something and need to re-watch the scene because it seemed as if the mutiny was BREAKING NEWS.

[atomationage]

Tyrion also seemed to think that Tywin might have been the one who killed Joffrey.  When the scene changed from Tywin to Tyrion, I thought it was still Twyinn speaking by the sound of their voices.

Bronn is being investigated as an accomplice of Tyrion. 

I liked the ending with Dany, but where the hell did they get the wood from, to make those catapults for the broken chains? 

I thought Arya would have been worried if The Hound had agreed to stay on the farm and not bring her to her aunt. 

I think Gilly and little Sam would be better off at Castle Black.  The town looked worse to me than the men of the Night's Watch.

[Lady S.]

Poor Podrick. He is trying so hard to do right by Tyrion and not seeing the big picture. Now that Tyrion has spelled it out for him, I hope Podrick is smart enough to take his advice and get the hell out of Kings Landing. As much as I love his sweet loyalty, I'd rather seem Pod escape with his life.

That was probably my favorite scene, the way Pod choked up when he said farewell. I don't care how many dumb magic dick jokes we had to sit through, I really like that kid. But he did say farewell, so more sensible than Shae in that department.

 

But cheer-up Tyrion, it looks as if they've put you in the deluxe dungeon cell. It's much nicer than Ned Stark's.

Plus, your cell has 4 walls!

Everything really is nicer for the Lannisters.

So do we think Tywin actually believes Dany has dragons now, or he just wants to convince Oberyn of all the reasons he'd need Dornish support? That turnaround surprised me.

[Conan Troutman]

So do we think Tywin actually believes Dany has dragons now, or he just wants to convince Oberyn of all the reasons he'd need Dornish support? That turnaround surprised me.

I thought the reason he didn't care about Dany and her dragons was that they had a more pressing problem at the time. Now that the war's over, I think he might be able to turn his attention a bit more towards her. I wonder what he really knows, though - we don't know exactly what Dany's timeline on the show's supposed to be. Two episodes ago, she was 160 miles or so away from Meereen. And in KL, there may have passed a few days since then. Are those storyline supposed to happen roughly at the same time? I guess it's possible for them to march at a pace of maybe 30 miles a day. So she's probably not too far off, maybe a few days or so, but not weeks. Since a couple of weeks had passed between sesaons (according to Jamie), Tywin must've heard about Astapor and probably Yunkai, too. So I wonder why he didn't even mention those armies to Oberyn. 

Speaking of Oberyn: Really looking forward how that turns out. I agree that he didn't really believe Tywin and just acted stupid. Does Tywin really think he was able to fool him that easily? Or can just control him with a little council seat? If so, that's some serious hubris there, and by now we know that won't go unpunished. Hopefully, as much as I liked Tywin's scene with Tommen and Cersei. Pure gold.

I'm surprised the mutiny at Craster's was news to the Night's Watch given that Sam was at Craster's when the mutiny started and has been at Castle Black since the end of last season.  I wouldn't expect Sam to know all the details that Grenn & Ed knew, but he knew something.

    Perhaps I missed something and need to re-watch the scene because it seemed as if the mutiny was BREAKING NEWS.

Constantinople: I can't imagine that neither Sam nor Jon told them anything at all about the mutiny yet. How long are they supposed to be back? A couple of weeks, maybe a bit less, but Sam teld Jon about Robb's death and that was at least about a month ago and they both arrived back at Castle Black in the last episode. "Oh, yeah, I totally forgot to mention, there was a little mutiny, the Lord Commander has been slaughtered and we're now a hundred men short. Didn't think it was important." Have to rewatch later, but that seems just impossible.

 

[Andromeda]

I'm tired of the Wall but I can't wait until that red haired chick bites it.  I can't stand the way she'd say, "Jon Snow."  Can't stand him either.

Last year I wanted to punch her every time she said "You know nothing, Jon Snow." Now I want to stab her for taking part in the murder and pillaging of a simple country village. Was that a village? Or just a farm? Awfully small for a village. At first I thought it was the same place the whores were (Moletown, or Mole's Town, which is what Sam called it.) That whorehouse was CREEPY. Poor Gilly!

[bunnyblue]

 

 

I'm tired of the Wall but I can't wait until that red haired chick bites it.  I can't stand the way she'd say, "Jon Snow."

I hate that too. Actually, I hate the way she talks most of the time. The way she keeps her smirky mouth slightly open after saying something in that weird way she talks drives me batty. I don't remember Rose Leslie annoying me like that when she was on "Downton Abbey". I do hope Ygritte dies a horrible death fighting at the Wall. After last night, she has no redeeming qualities. She's can die with all her fellow Wildlings.

[Tara Ariano]

Here are the House rankings for the episode by ravens Blackie and Bitey, as told to Jeff Drake!

[CeeBeeGee]

Last year I wanted to punch her every time she said "You know nothing, Jon Snow." Now I want to stab her for taking part in the murder and pillaging of a simple country village.

That was AWFUL. Any sympathy I might've had for the wildlings and Ygritte--she was certainly trying to court it before with her "then why're we fighting?" comments and such--has been destroyed by her actions in this episode. Absolutely nothing justifies her working with monsters like the Thenn, and murdering innocents like that.

[Constantinople]

It shows growth and increased sophistication, but it's also kind of disturbing that Tywin would probably approve of Jon Snow's arguments in this episode about how to respond to

1. Innocent farmers brutally murdered and eaten by Wildlings: Fuck 'em (OK, JS was a little more politic than that, but that was the gist of it)
    
2. Night's Watch Mutineers: We're not going to kill them for revenge, we're going to kill them to prevent valuable intel from falling into Mance Rayder's hands.

That being said, with so few men, I don't know how the Night's Watch can afford to send a force large enough to ensure the mutineers were wiped out.

[Happy Harpy]

It was an "Oz-like" episode, where the writers remind the viewers that everyone or almost is rotten to the bone. Just in case Cunty McBastardson's death at the end of last episode left people with too much warm and fuzzy feelings.

Exceptions: Arya still has a sense of decency (once she has a full stomach). Margaery sounded almost naive in her underestimation of Joffrey's psychopathic tendencies. And after sparing him the view of Joffrey's death, Tywin seemed almost fond of Tommen. Tyrion and Pod stayed noble.

What in hell does Davos see in Stannis? I came to think that he actually stays for Shireen, who is just awesome. Can't Cold Fish die so she gets to be head of House Baratheon? 

Littlefinger is so oily that you coul deep-fry a stone of potatoes with him. I want him to die the most horrific death possible. I can't see him as a Magnificent Bastard, he's just a creepy cockroach in my eyes.

Does "Sansa" means "victim" in high valyrian or something? Sigh.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[marcee]

 

In multiple interviews (read: damage control), the director is now trying to say that they didn't intend it to come across as rape. Which I think is bullshit of the highest order. For one thing, it's not like this show has ever been scared of rape before. For another thing, JAIME DRAGS HER TO THE FLOOR AND PULLS HER SKIRT UP AND SHE REPEATEDLY SAYS "NO" AND "STOP." That's what they filmed (and pieced together in editing), and now they're claiming it was meant to be otherwise?

The PR spin-doctoring might turn my stomach more than the scene itself did.

No doubt the scene was gross, and in the real world, we'd consider it rape... but in the Thrones world, I don't think it would be completely out of character for Cersei to enjoy a little domination from her brother (gag) and the scene played to me that her main objection was more that it wouldn't be right to do it in the room with Joffrey's body. I did get the feeling that she's playing a bit of a tease/game with Jaime and this was the response she may have even been going for -- just perhaps not right at that moment (gag), in that room, right...(gag) there. Then again, I could be wrong.

[Mz Anthrope]

I wouldn't say 'enjoy a little domination', but I would say that in the time when this is supposed to occur, it's not out of the ordinary at all.  Women are expected to take it.  It's just a given.  Now, with highborns, it's not so 'given', and not everyone can do it, but for those two?  I doubt anyone will flinch any more than at the relationship itself at this point.

Count me as one who's finding the Dany scenes boring and not worth the time to watch.  She gets away with saying all of that at someone's wall without anyone trying to stop her from poisoning the minds of their slaves?  Just one champion killed, and she can walk up and say whatever she wants against their wall?  Yeah... not so much.

[Tippi]

I thought ravens flew to Dragonstone from Castle Black last season and that Stannis was going to try to raise an army and go to help them?  Anyway, I really enjoy the Stannis/Davos and Davos/Shireen scenes.  It seems that despite the deaths of Renly, Robb, and Joffrey, Stannis is still not quite 100% convinced by the Red Priestess. You would think that Stannis would have called on the Lord of Light to cure his daughter. I like to see his love for his daughter--sure hope that he is not persuaded to do something awful to her.

I hate the cannibal scenes, but I realize the show has to make the prospect of the coming invasion seem horrific.  I don't know how Jon and company are going to get out of this one!  I am looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

You would think that Stannis would have called on the Lord of Light to cure his daughter.

I think there are two reasons he hasn't done this. First, he has only allowed Melisandre to help him take the Iron Throne because he truly believes that is next in line for the throne. He might have a stick up his ass, but so far he has been portrayed pretty consistently as having a moral code that dictates he do the right thing and follow rules and laws to the letter. He has not had her do any magic for anything besides ways to vanquish his enemies who are usurpers trying to illegitimately claim the throne. Fixing Shireen's face would be a selfish personal matter unrelated to winning the war and being king.

Secondly, he has seen the types of sacrifice necessary for Melisandre's magic to work. I don't think he wants to find out what would be required to cure Shireen's face. He seems like he's on a need to know basis as far as the actual magic is concerned.

[Subrookie]

Re: The Cercei/Jaime scene. I think this episode was ment to remind the audience that these are bad people. We saw it with these two and with the Hound/Arya. As a plot element I thought the scene worked. People were starting to like Jaime, swooning over him and Brienne, forgetting that he paralyzed Bran, had been sleeping with his sister for years and spawned Joeffrey. Fans seem to be reminded why they don't like him now. Which, is what I thought the point was.

 

[Happy Harpy]

 

He might have a stick up his ass, but so far he has been portrayed pretty consistently as having a moral code that dictates he do the right thing and follow rules and laws to the letter.

 Stannis regretted that Davos prevented him from having a (decent) young man burned alive in order to achieve his ambitions. I don't see how any moral code could dictate the unfair death of an innocent. So for me, this episode definitely showed that Stannis sold his soul to the devil since Renly's murder; he wants the throne and he doesn't care about anything else imo.

I found it very interesting, by the way, how Stannis emphazised the word "bastard". How convenient that he wanted to sacrifice the one person who could have a better claim than him on Robert's legacy, were he legitimized.

[KYBlonde]

I DVR'd this episode (as per usual) and I still don't get something.  The preview says The Hound teaches Arya something.  What exactly did he teach her?  To never trust a sociopath such as himself??

I knew the necklace was the key to the poisoning.  I re-watched last weeks episode in slow motion and high definition and I clearly saw Olenna pull a stone off Sansa's necklace so I knew that was a factor, even though I haven't read the books.  So I am loving this season.  Is it Sunday yet???

[terrymct]

In multiple interviews (read: damage control), the director is now trying to say that they didn't intend it to come across as rape. Which I think is bullshit of the highest order. For one thing, it's not like this show has ever been scared of rape before. For another thing, JAIME DRAGS HER TO THE FLOOR AND PULLS HER SKIRT UP AND SHE REPEATEDLY SAYS "NO" AND "STOP." That's what they filmed (and pieced together in editing), and now they're claiming it was meant to be otherwise?

The PR spin-doctoring might turn my stomach more than the scene itself did.

I watched it again and agree with you. It was rape. The first time I saw the scene I was so totally repelled that ALL the nasty details weren't sinking in.

Why the heck did they do the scene that way? I really thought Jaimie was on a redemption arc.

[Tippi]

I am giving the side eye to all the characters on the show saying Tommen is/will be such an improvement over Joffrey. It just seems a little too pat to me. I wish Tommen would bust out with something totally demented to set Tywin, Olenna, et al back on their heels.