S02.E07: The Darkest Place

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Guardian must clear his name after being accused of a murder committed by another vigilante; at the same time, Supergirl comes face to face with Cyborg Superman while on a solo mission to rescue Mon-El, who has been captured by Cadmus.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

So how long are they going to drag out the Mon El = Prince reveal?

[Primal Slayer]

It wasn't bad, they did a pretty good job at all 3 storylines.

But Alex really annoyed me in this episode, like talk about being over the top dramatic just because the girl you like doesn't like you back and making her into the bad guy and having her believe she is the bad guy. Not a good look.

M'Ganns whole White Martian reveal was very lack luster and it sucks at how much they depowered her along with J'onn. 

Don't call Hank Henshaw 'Cyborg Superman' unless he is in the Superman getup! Other wise it sounds really stupid.

I feel like they may be setting up a possible Galetea reveal but I hope not and that it is just about getting into the Fortress with extreme ease.

I will say, one thing I enjoy about Supergirl vs. the other shows is how much downtime we get with the characters in casual settings

[stealinghome]

Holy shitballs, this episode! It’s like they were saving up five episodes’ worth of awesomeness for tonight! Where was this gear over the last few episodes? Because despite being totally all over the place, this ep was absolutely head and shoulders better than any episode since 2x02. This might have been the best this season, actually, though I’d have to rewatch to say for sure.

First: JEREMIAH!!!!!!!! Who wants to bet he’s kind of more in with Cadmus than he kind of suggested to Kara? But hey, #DaddyDanversAintDead! Kara’s reaction to finding him—and then Alex’s reaction to being told about it—made me choke up so hard. That last scene, Alex’s desperation to know her dad was okay...Chyler Leigh is killing this season. BUT, it’s well worth noting that Melissa Benoist had her best performance of the year in this episode too, imo. She just absolutely nailed everything, from Kara’s fear in Cadmus to her joy with Jeremiah. Totally nailed it. This episode is why you put the show on Melissa Benoist’s shoulders, because she’s so, so good when everything's clicking.

Speaking of the sisters, while I 500% don’t believe Alex would be so chill about Kara going over 12 hours without checking in—Alex would freak out if Kara was 12 MINUTES overdue, c’mon—Kara giving Mon-El that message for Alex got me a little choked up too. Talk about being each other's person. Ugh, the Danvers sisters are just so perfect. PERFECT. My OTP for this show by a mile.

I really loved the J’onn/Kara scene at the start. I think part of the reason this episode felt so good is because it brought the Power Trio back in full force—there was lots of Kara/J’onn/Alex time in various permutations, and the show’s at its best when those relationships are front and center. It’s too bad J’onn is actually seeing his wife and daughters because he’s turning White Martian, not because of survivor’s guilt or anything, as that kind of nullifies Kara’s speech somewhat. But still, that was a really sweet moment and I liked seeing glimpses into kid!Kara's experience. And hot damn, David Harewood was TERRIFYING when J’onn went after M’gann at the bar. Legitimately terrifying. I wouldn’t want to meet him in a dark alley when he’s like that. Science Superstar Alex is going to cure J’onn, right? Maybe with an assist from Lena Luthor? But I have to confess, while I liked what we got of J’onn and M’gann throwing down, it also felt a little anticlimactic. Rushed. I imagined the reveal would be more…big somehow, instead of a B- or C-plot in an overstuffed episode.

Oh, Maggie. I think you’re both quite insensitive and kind of the queen of mixed signals (“I don’t want to date you, BUT I’m going to stalk you everywhere you go!”). Also, who are you trying to fool? In that last scene you looked to be about 30 seconds from getting down on one knee and proposing to Alex. Maggie’s totes twitterpated too. I liked Kara’s kinda cold shoulder to Maggie at the bar, but I wish they were dragging out Alex and Maggie being on the outs longer—the potential for hilarity is just so great there, if Supergirl looks like she’s going to fry Detective Sawyer at every crime scene. Also, hello stalker, how did Maggie know where Alex was/where Kara lives? At any rate, the Maggie/Alex stuff was painful in the best way tonight. I loved that Alex got to lay the smackdown—she really, really needed that (and Maggie needed to hear that). Man, Alex is on fire as a character right now.

Mon-El in jail is the first time I’ve liked the guy and bought that he and Kara do anything more than tolerate each other. Still giving a big UGH to a Kara/Mon-El romance, but maybe if they keep having him act like he has more maturity than an 8-year-old, I’ll warm up to it...eventually. Could the show have been any more obvious at the end?

Don’t care about Hank Henshaw as Cyborg Supes (Jeremiah would’ve been a better choice probably) and Lillian Luthor continues to be a cardboard cutout, but at least Team Supergirl now knows that Cadmus’ head is Lena’s mom. That would’ve been a stupid secret to drag out.

The Guardian stuff was just like whatever. I didn’t feel like it matched the rest of the episode and it took up too much time and I fundamentally don’t care about the Dumbass Duo being dumbasses. BUT I liked the Kara/Alex/Winn/James hangout at the bar at the start, and then those four+Mon-El at Kara’s apartment at the end. It brought back some of the family vibe S1 tried to cultivate (while feeling more authentic than S1 ever did imo), and reminded us that we care about these people because they care about each other. It also returned us to having more of a balance of real and superheroing life, which I really liked--that was one of the things that set S1 apart from the other DCTV shows and I've missed though. Though really, all the characters should give up their apartments and move to the bar, since they spend so much time there!

Alex and Winn continue to work well for me as friends, bizarrely. I did feel bad for Winn, but was also laughing, when Alex got up in his face about the Guardian stuff. Boy, did Alex need to let some of that temper out. Poor Winn.

Excellent episode.

[benteen]

Kind of strange that both Arrow and Supergirl have done episodes about vigilantes that look almost identical.

That being said, good episode though.  Kind of funny that when she needed the most help, James and J'onn were both caught up in their own mess.  Just what is J'onn holding White Martian in a cell for.

I admit, I find Mon-El to be funny.

[secnarf]

Definitely could have done without any of the Guardian stuff. It continues to bore me.

I am very easily embarrassed for characters on TV shows, so I literally couldn't watch any of the Alex/Maggie scenes except for Kara giving Maggie the cold shoulder at the bar and the tail end of the last scene. I will be very glad when they get over this awkwardness, but overall am liking the way this storyline is done.

Cyborg Superman was underwhelming. He could just as easily have been any Cadmus henchman.

Shocked though that after the Henshaw/Cyborg reveal, Kara immediately trusted Jeremiah. I sure don't - he helped them escape after Cadmus had got what they wanted from Kara.

Not thrilled that now we have yet another issue with J'onn turning into a White Martian. It feels like there's a lot going on.

I am hopeful that this Cadmus plot will finally take off, though, rather than just simmering on the back burner. I'm not sure how much plot development to expect from the crossovers, though.

[RandomWatcher]

Anyone else catch the Batman reference?

[quarks]

So now, Supergirl isn't just borrowing various sets from Arrow, but borrowing actual plot lines?

Did have to cheer when Dean Cain showed up, though.

[KirkB]

I want to like James, I really do, but while I know Mehcad Brooks was doing the best he could with the material he was given last season it's like they totally ran out of ways to keep him relevant to the narrative and have contrived this Guardian storyline. I didn't really want to spend half the episode watching two masked guys fighting, not when Kara was captured by Cadmus, and we got to remeet both the real Hank Henshaw and Jeremiah Danvers. Speaking of Jeremiah, that whole scene was massively suspicious. If that was really him I'd wager he's either brainwashed, or way more a part of this than Alex and Kara are going to be comfortable with.

J'onn found out about M'Gann sooner than I expected. On the other hand, he reacted exactly like I expected. If a member of a race that exterminated mine showed up I would be furious to take them down too, even if they saved my life. That's a rage I totally understand, though I am assuming J'onn is going to see M'Gann is different eventually.

I agree with Primal Slayer. You can't call yourself Cyborg Superman without the Superman motif. And if Henshaw is such a xenophobic psychopath, why would he want to be in any way associated with the alien who started it all?

I did, RandomWatcher. They made it pretty obvious.  :)

I also liked Alex taking Maggie to task, though she was also venting her own frustrations. Though speaking of Maggie, did she not recognize Kara from last week as the alien drinking the otherwise poisonous drink? Either she is horribly unobservant for a cop (which means she's probably from Metropolis) or she must realize Kara's sister is an alien, right? And how could she NOT recognize her as Supergirl?

[legaleagle53]

11 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Though speaking of Maggie, did she not recognize Kara from last week as the alien drinking the otherwise poisonous drink? Either she is horribly unobservant for a cop (which means she's probably from Metropolis) or she must realize Kara's sister is an alien, right? And how could she NOT recognize her as Supergirl?

The same way Cat Grant and Lucy Lane didn't.  Kara's secret identity may not fool us, but it's clearly enough to fool everyone on the show.

[Primal Slayer]

19 minutes ago, quarks said:

So now, Supergirl isn't just borrowing various sets from Arrow, but borrowing actual plot lines?

Did have to cheer when Dean Cain showed up, though.

What plot line did they borrow (that was probably already borrowed from Batman)

[Cranberry]

5 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

The same way Cat Grant and Lucy Lane didn't.  Kara's secret identity may not fool us, but it's clearly enough to fool everyone on the show.

Cat Grant knew Kara was Supergirl 8 episodes into the show. It took a Martian shapeshifter to convince her she wasn't (and I'm still not convinced that actually did it).

[quarks]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

What plot line did they borrow (that was probably already borrowed from Batman)

The "oooh, the police are blaming me, the good vigilante, for the killing done by the bad vigilante!" Which Arrow did a number of times in the first season. Along with "I'm the good vigilante! I don't kill people, unlike the bad vigilante!" which Arrow did just last week.

You're right that both plots were "borrowed" (a politer phrase than "outright stolen") from Batman.

[Primal Slayer]

That's such a superhero "must" I feel like, so many have used it. They already did it last season with Supergirl herself didn't they? 

[KirkB]

Okay, I'll give you the Maggie not recognizing Kara as Supergirl thing. But we know for a fact Maggie was in the bar last week and must have seen Alex there with Kara, J'onn, and Mon-El. She didn't know who Kara was at the time but she clearly wasn't human. Shouldn't she remember that? Or has one too many blows to the head as a cop given her a short term memory problem?

[Sakura12]

I really wish we wouldn't have to waste time on the Guardian crap. Do Not Care. I'm not watching Arrow, I'm watching Supergirl. Well Arrow was less whiny than James. So it's not a fair comparison. I don't care about James and Winn's street level fights when we have a girl with all the powers. Also if they wanted James to be a hero why did they give him Cat's job that should be taking up a lot of time where he shouldn't have that much to to fight crime? 

Mon-El was better, probably because he was just being snarky and almost telling Kara he's the Prince. They revealed the M'gann thing sooner than expected. So the Mon-El reveal will probably be soon as well as the continually dumb James storylne. 

[Primal Slayer]

They all come from the same mentality.  Oliver is the mayor and get away with spending half his day vigilanting, Felicity was the CEO of a giant as company and had enough time to spend down in the arrow cave, Laurel was a lawyer, etc... but yeah it isn't that great of storyline for James. Feels really forced.

[quarks]

7 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

That's such a superhero "must" I feel like, so many have used it. They already did it last season with Supergirl herself didn't they? 

Oh, I grant it's a superhero cliche.  But in this case, it stood out since James strung someone upside down, just as in Arrow, did so in one of the location shots Arrow uses about every five episodes (and Flash uses occasionally), the Navy Seal guy and James had their big fight on one of Arrow's sets, and used similar fight moves that Arrow just used with the Green Arrow/Vigilante fight last week, topped off by Kara, Mon-El and Dean Cain hurrying down that concrete hallway set that Arrow has been using since its first season and occasionally shares with Legends of Tomorrow.

I mean, it's one thing to repeat plots from your sister show. It's another thing to repeat plots in the same location. 

[Primal Slayer]

That's just coincidence, the episodes were written around the same time and probably filmed like a week after one another. But that is also the trouble of having so many shows shoot in the same location and trying to save as much money as possible. 

[Lady Calypso]

I laughed really hard unintentionally at the first ten seconds of the episode, where they tried to sell a flashforward to get people excited to see why "J'onn" was fighting Supergirl. Uh, show? Maybe make it last long enough to garner any reaction. 

I still feel like Jimmy would suck a lot more without Winn. Just because Jimmy's fighting on the field doesn't mean that makes him the hero and Winn the sidekick. By the way, Jimmy is NOT good at hiding his identity. "Oh, what's new on the kickass savior Guardian. Wait, he's being accused of murder? THAT'S A BUNCH OF LIES. HOW DARE ANYONE ACCUSE THIS NEW VIGILANTE OF BEING A KILLER?!?!". Winn not wanting to go to jail makes sense with his father. Man, the only thing that's keeping me watching this dumbass Guardian arc is Winn. I'm really just waiting for a scene (that'll probably never come) where someone tells Winn that he's the true hero for all that he's doing to protect Jimmy's dumb ass from getting killed. Because congrats Jimmy, you have a black belt and a need to save this city. You want to line up behind the many other vigilantes? You ain't that special. 

But hey! Alex knows because she saw through Winn's not good lying either.

Speaking of Alex, I also was annoyed by her attitude toward Maggie. I know that her coming out was difficult, but putting it ALL on Maggie? Really? Goddamn, Alex.  

I really liked J'onn and Kara's talk in the DEO about M'gann and moving on. It was a nice moment of reflection for the both of them. But I'm starting to see a pattern of Kara/Supergirl being put on the sidelines for other characters. This is her show, so she shouldn't be continuously propping other characters. But I guess it's better than Barry "I need pep talks every episode" Allen. It still was a moment that worked.

So J'onn is turning into a White Martian. Now either he'll learn to accept it, or they'll find a way to stop it but he'll still accept White Martians like M'gann into his life.

I just can't believe it took Alex and the DEO so long to discover that Kara was missing. That was stupid. I know they were all distracted by other things, but it doesn't mean that I have to like how Kara is so sidelined that she's forgotten about or put second by the characters on the show. ON A SHOW CALLED SUPERGIRL, NOT SUPERFRIENDS. 

Ok, despite my issues throughout the episode, it wasn't all bad.

It's nice that so many secrets came out in this episode. Lillian Luthor, White Martian, Guardian, and Jeremiah. 

I liked Mon-El and Kara's scene in the jail. So, are they going to drag out the Mon-El=Prince reveal that most people probably figured out already? But he was a lot more likable. I guess it's official that Mon-El/Kara will be a thing. Oh joy, show. 

Oh, Jeremiah! Hello! What a surprise! And a nice surprise! But he's probably brainwashed or something. I won't say evil because he seems to genuinely save Kara, but probably working for evil and will need to be brought back from that side.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

So if J'onn eventually gets turned back to full Green Martian, can M'gann get transformed into a Green Martian? Otherwise, I don't see the two of them ever pairing off.

Maybe Jeremiah has been deep undercover at Cadmus for 15 years. If so, I can't imagine what he's waiting for.

If I were Supergirl, I'd tell Lena right away about her mother.

Did the cages at Cadmus also prevent Supergirl from using her heat vision/cold breath/a really big gust of air against the bad guys?  It seemed as though she could reach through the bars with her hands. But perhaps if she knocked everyone out, she and Mon El would just be trapped inside the cages until they died.

Edited November 22, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[KirkB]

Oh, the cages. Where the hell did they get that much Nth metal from? I mean, did a Thanagarian cargo ship crash on Earth or something?

[Primal Slayer]

Just now, KirkB said:

Oh, the cages. Where the hell did they get that much Nth metal from? I mean, did a Thanagarian cargo ship crash on Earth or something?

I was thinking the same thing. It probably won't get explained but...it needs to get explained.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Maybe I missed it while flipping channels, but did Kara tell everyone at the DEO, etc.  about the fact that the real Hank Henshaw is alive and is a cyborg.

I just find it more than a little odd that both Jeremiah and real!Hank showed up in the same episode --  one who is supposed to have been dead, and one who has just been missing a loooooong time.

How does Cadmus even know about the Fortress of Solitude ?  Because that's some pretty weak-ass security if you can make it all the way to the control panel without being vaporized -- did real!Hank also know about the giant key ?  How did they know that they just needed some blood to fake Kara's presence at the controls ?

ETA:  Does Superman not even have something like the Ring doorbell so he can monitor/get alerts if someone is breaking into his secret lair ?

Edited November 22, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[rtms77]

So they wasted the whole vial of blood just for a hand print? And how did Cyborg Henshaw lift a dwarf star key to open the door to the Fortress? I 'm sorry but they really made Kara look like a fool fighting him. She barley moves him or makes a dent while he throws her around like a rag doll? Not very super or even stronger than her cousin which the comics seem to claim. This is what i dislike about the CW and their heroes, they always make them weak when they should be kicking butt. The start of this season has been a disaster for Kara, as she can't seem to hold her own in a fight anymore unlike last year. Every villain this season has kicked her butt big time.

They really need to refocus back on Kara and her story  there is just too much and too many characters. She really is getting shafted in her own show to show off the male heroes and marginalize her. And please don't make me gag with Mon El and the budding romance they are pushing. He is not end game or anywhere  near it. She has no chemistry with him. I was hoping the lead poisoning would lead to him leaving for the future but now he's contemplating  marrying Kara?

[MarkHB]

9 hours ago, RandomWatcher said:

Anyone else catch the Batman reference?

I did indeed! "Tons of gadgets,  lots of demons!"

7 hours ago, rtms77 said:

I was hoping the lead poisoning would lead to him leaving for the future but now he's contemplating  marrying Kara?

I'm pretty sure that, at least for now, he's just contemplating banging Kara. Baby steps.

Edited November 22, 2016 by MarkHB
Fixed the quote... thanks, VCRTracking!

[VCRTracking]

"My cousin worked with a vigilante once. Tons of gadgets, lots of demons."

Okay I liked that sly Batman reference!

[Lantern7]

I feel that we're just spinning around until the crossover next week. Winn and Cisco can get into a dork-off. Alex and Sara can see how few moves it would take to kill an asshole. Y'know, as opposed to just snogging for the male audience.

I'm good with Henshaw coming back, but "Cyborg Superman" has always been clunky, even during "Reign Of The Supermen." I understand that "Cyborg" is taken, but couldn't Marketing come up with a new name?

"Meh" on Monra. Karmon? A small part of me is hoping for Comet down the line, but that's a bit of Silver Age that is really messed up.

[stealinghome]

Quote

"Meh" on Monra. Karmon? A small part of me is hoping for Comet down the line, but that's a bit of Silver Age that is really messed up.

The best one I've seen so far is Kon-El, but a) confusing with Superboy and b) not catchy.

[Humbugged]

58 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

I did indeed! "Tons of gadgets,  major demons!"

I'm pretty sure that, at least for now, he's just contemplating banging Kara. Baby steps.

After the Star Spangled Easter egg last week we got the first scumbag that FauxGuardian killed coming out of a building with a Newsboy sign .Then he asked if the masked people come in a pack and as someone else I was talking to at the time said no they usually come in a Legion or a Squad and  sometimes even a Society

[legaleagle53]

30 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

I feel that we're just spinning around until the crossover next week. Winn and Cisco can get into a dork-off. Alex and Sara can see how few moves it would take to kill an asshole. Y'know, as opposed to just snogging for the male audience.

I'm good with Henshaw coming back, but "Cyborg Superman" has always been clunky, even during "Reign Of The Supermen." I understand that "Cyborg" is taken, but couldn't Marketing come up with a new name?

"Meh" on Monra. Karmon? A small part of me is hoping for Comet down the line, but that's a bit of Silver Age that is really messed up.

Especially given that Comet was originally a centaur before Circe accidentally turned him into a horse and couldn't reverse the spell.

[Black Knight]

Wow, this episode was stuffed...probably over-stuffed, a couple of plotlines could have stood a bit more time to breathe. But there certainly wasn't a slow minute.

I was not expecting to see Jeremiah, and was happy when he turned up, but then he irritated me: To Kara, he's all "I'm proud of you," but when Kara brings up how Alex was strong and took over everything (and good on Kara for immediately mentioning that instead of just basking in Jeremiah's praise of her), Jeremiah's only comment is that Alex has always been too strong for her own good. He couldn't come up with a nice compliment for Kara to take back to the daughter who hasn't seen him in over a decade, like "I'm proud of her too"? Is he another version of Eliza, then, one Alex just doesn't have as much cause to resent because he was only around for Kara's first year on earth? Alex did say in the pilot that both of her parents focused on Kara, so some groundwork was laid, but I had been hoping Jeremiah wasn't as bad as Eliza.

But even if both her parents kinda suck, at least Alex has someone who does love her more than anyone, Kara. I loved that when Kara was worried that she was going to die, her one and only thought was getting a final message to her sister. I was also amused that Kara told Jeremiah that Alex would never forgive her for leaving Jeremiah behind, but when Kara and Alex actually reunited Kara wasn't the least bit worried about that. It was just something she said in an attempt to convince Jeremiah to leave with her. She knows there isn't anything Alex wouldn't forgive her for.

I disagree with those who think that Alex put everything on Maggie. What she said needed to be said. Maggie knew Alex liked her and gave her some mixed signals (and is now giving her a ton of mixed signals, but to Alex's credit she is simply ignoring them instead of getting all hopeful again, because she's learned her lesson), ended up hurting her - but, it's not so much that Maggie hurt her, it's that Maggie tried to act like it was nothing. She wanted Alex to stick around at the bar in the last episode, when anyone with sense would know that anyone who's just been rejected needs to go off for a bit, not hang around with a fake smile. Then Alex ignored Maggie's calls, and instead of getting the hint, Maggie tracked her down. She did it again at the end, but at least she was finally being a human being then - she said she'd heard what Alex had said, and she promised that if Alex didn't want anything to do with her, she'd respect that and go away. That's pretty much all Alex wanted, some respect for and acknowledgment of her feelings, instead of them being glossed over. Then she was willing to hear out the rest of what Maggie had to say, and was willing to be friends. Notice that she didn't need an apology from Maggie to do that - Maggie never gave one (because there's nothing wrong with saying no to a relationship), yet they worked it out. It's just about showing some basic respect for the other person's feelings. If we go by what the ex-girlfriend said (as well as what we've seen), Maggie's not great in that department, so Alex is probably going to be good for her since Alex doesn't let that kind of shit slide by for long before calling it out.

Kara's "I've heard all about you" to Maggie was hilarious, as was the way she rubber-necked around as Maggie and Alex went off for their conversation. And of course she x-rayed through the door at the end to see who Alex was talking to (the amused "spy much?" from Alex was cute). I kinda wish Maggie and Alex hadn't worked things out already because I wanted more of Kara like this, but I suppose there's still more opportunity for that - if Alex starts dating someone else and Maggie gets jealous but just continues to send out mixed signals, I can see Kara getting annoyed and telling Maggie to make up her mind. Maggie should be on a pretty short leash with her.

So everyone knows now about Lena's mother being behind Cadmus. I wasn't expecting that to come out quite so fast. I guess Lillian just doesn't have two shits to give about keeping her identity a secret? I guess she's not alone, there.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

 

M'Ganns whole White Martian reveal was very lack luster and it sucks at how much they depowered her along with J'onn. 

Don't call Hank Henshaw 'Cyborg Superman' unless he is in the Superman getup! Other wise it sounds really stupid.

[snip]

I will say, one thing I enjoy about Supergirl vs. the other shows is how much downtime we get with the characters in casual settings

I don't think she was really fighting all that hard.  We know she can hold her own against J'onn when she tries.  We saw it just a couple episodes ago.  So I have to assume she's punishing herself for what she is.  

Yeah, I was not feeling Cyborg Superman.  The name made no sense.  I was unspoiled though so the show got me.  

Supergirl does well showing the characters in downtime and I think LoT isn't too bad either, not as good but still much better than Arrow or Flash.  (Arrow is probably the worst of all of them)

 

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I really wish we wouldn't have to waste time on the Guardian crap. Do Not Care. I'm not watching Arrow, I'm watching Supergirl. Well Arrow was less whiny than James. So it's not a fair comparison. I don't care about James and Winn's street level fights when we have a girl with all the powers. Also if they wanted James to be a hero why did they give him Cat's job that should be taking up a lot of time where he shouldn't have that much to to fight crime? 

Mon-El was better, probably because he was just being snarky and almost telling Kara he's the Prince. They revealed the M'gann thing sooner than expected. So the Mon-El reveal will probably be soon as well as the continually dumb James storylne. 

Yeah, I thought the Guardian plot worked much better last week when he was fighting the giant parasite.  This week was too street level.  It really did feel like it could have been on Arrow (and I given how much I hate the noob Wild Dog, I'm willing to make a trade) The problem I really have is why do we need the Guardian?  He worked last week because Supergirl couldn't be there and if he is going to back her up, I'm fine, but it's just not logical that Supergirl wouldn't have beat James and Winn to crimes in progress.  

And it's even less logical that there were TWO vigilante's that suddenly showed up in National City.  That just felt like it should be happening on a different show.  

I also didn't love the logic behind Kara being so willing to give up her powers.  Why didn't she just take out the guards once she was outside the cage?  And there's no way that Kara could have been MIA that long from her job, right?  Maybe Snapper is glad when she vanishes.

Overall, not terrible, but felt rushed and Jimmy was even less integrated into the show than last week and Winn felt demoted to more side kick than partner.

Watching this show always leaves me hungry and I don't even like pot stickers..     

Edited November 22, 2016 by BkWurm1

[bmoore4026]

Cyborg Superman - the polar opposite of Sunshine Superman.

I'm guessing the guy who was killing the crooks Jimmy was getting blamed for is Peacemaker?  'cause if it is, people in the costume department did a bang up job redesigning his outfit.  Now he doesn't look like he has a urinal on his head.

Edited November 22, 2016 by bmoore4026

[MarkHB]

I'd actually consider him a lot closer to the Comedian than Peacemaker; I don't believe the latter was ever a murderer like this guy was.

[StarBrand]

A heckuva lot going on this episode.

Alex went on the offensive with Maggie. Maybe she was harsh, maybe not, but she needed to get that out. I'm a bit surprised they made peace by the end, although I don't think Alex is going to let her guard down with Maggie for a bit. She'll make Maggie work for it.

I liked Alex's reaction to finding out James was the Guardian, which a lot of us have been thinking for weeks-"are you fucking kidding me?"

I figured J'ohhn getting White Martian blood would have some side effects, although I didn't think it was actually starting to mutate him into one.

I agree the whole thing with Jeremiah was...off. I believed he wanted to help Kara escape, but something's up.

And there's also no doubt now that Mon-El is the prince...

[ottoDbusdriver]

9 hours ago, StarBrand said:

I figured J'ohhn getting White Martian blood would have some side effects, although I didn't think it was actually starting to mutate him into one.

I agree the whole thing with Jeremiah was...off. I believed he wanted to help Kara escape, but something's up.

That was my question -- I know the white Martians were experimenting on the Green Martians in the camps, but what would be the point of turning the Green Martians into White Martians ?  Other than creating a whole bunch of White Martians who were extremely pissed off at the OG White Martians.

Do we actually know it was Jeremiah and not, oh I don't know, a shapeshifter impersonating Jeremiah ?

I know this alien bar is a place for Team Supergirl to kick back and relax, but does everyone in the bar know that Kara is Supergirl ?  Because they talk about Supergirl stuff a little too openly at that place, even moreso than at Catco, and I bet it will come back to bite them in the ass at some point.

ETA:  Does everyone at Catco know that Winn doesn't work there anymore -- but seems to spend a lot of time openly working with James in the Catco offices ?

Edited November 22, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[Izeinwinter]

Honestly, Supergirls identity seems to be a secret the way an unlisted number is. That is "Not very at all, just not listed in the phonebook". Half the people supposedly in the dark make more sense if you presume they're actively humoring her on this point because she's just that cute. (Lena Luthor is constantly lightly trolling her over it, even) 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Izeinwinter

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

And how did Cyborg Henshaw lift a dwarf star key to open the door to the Fortress?

As you said he was able to beat up Kara so he probably has comparable strength to the Kryptonians. 

Superman needs better security if a sophisticated robot can't run a visual scan on someone who clearly isn't Kara.  On the other hand, stop or be vaporized is kind of harsh for Mr. I don't kill.  I'll assume it was a bluff.

[MarkHB]

39 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Superman needs better security if a sophisticated robot can't run a visual scan on someone who clearly isn't Kara.  On the other hand, stop or be vaporized is kind of harsh for Mr. I don't kill.  I'll assume it was a bluff.

It certainly seemed to be a bluff since Kalex didn't actually do anything.  OTOH, anything that would get to that point would have to be a major threat by definition; it's not a wide-open Kryptonian ship that crashed 18,000 years ago after all that anyone can walk into.

[KirkB]

No way would Superman have a killer robot guarding the Fortress, so it was pretty evident the threat was a bluff. Most likely the countdown would ended with the unknown life form being stunned and removed from the premises or something. On the other hand, Clark might want to consider a software patch if the robot protecting all his Kryptonian secrets doesn't have any capacity for pattern recognition (ie something that visually isn't Kara Zor-El and doesn't register as Kara Zor-El suddenly has Kara Zor-El's blood). And as other have noted, how did Cadmus (or Henshaw) even know the Fortress exists, much less where to find it? I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly, that the only people who knew about it were Clark himself, Kara, James, and presumably Lois.

Edited November 22, 2016 by KirkB

[Izeinwinter]

"invisiblity to radar is not, in fact, one of his powers"?

[diebartdie]

11 hours ago, benteen said:

 Just what is J'onn holding White Martian in a cell for.
 

I think for the same reason that even today whenever any living WW2 Nazis that worked in any capacity in a concentration camp or in Hitler's inner circle they are imprisoned (even though they are really very old people now, what they did was so horrific they go to prison).

[Jediknight]

James beat a Navy Seal in a fight?  Come on, that's just stretching the laws of disbelief to the max.

Loved seeing Jeremiah, wish Kara would have told Alex "Dad's alive."  Come on Kara, he's both yours and Alex's father.

Alex and Winn are a great brother sister combination.

M'Gann wasn't fighting back at all.  She wanted J'onn to kill her, because then she wouldn't have to live as a White Martian anymore.

[StarBrand]

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

M'Gann wasn't fighting back at all.  She wanted J'onn to kill her, because then she wouldn't have to live as a White Martian anymore.

Didn't she revert to human form at one point, and basically said to J'onn that was the form she wanted to live in..?

[ahisma]

Quote

I laughed really hard unintentionally at the first ten seconds of the episode, where they tried to sell a flashforward to get people excited to see why "J'onn" was fighting Supergirl. Uh, show? Maybe make it last long enough to garner any reaction. 

Actually, I thought it was a decent fake-out. They just showed J'onn getting White Martian blood in the previouslies, then they show him beating up Supergirl—designed to make you think him turning White Martian was making him homicidal. And considering he almost shot that poor DEO worker, he kind of was. It's just that there was another twist that Hank Henshaw was alive. 

I hate that I'm questioning Jeremiah, but I'm questioning Jeremiah. :-(

The identity reveal that freaked me out was Supergirl telling Lillian she recognized her from Lena's office. How many blonde girls has Lillian met in Lena's office? It wasn't that long ago, Kara. Way to blow your secret identity. 

Mon-El was pretty obvious in that last scene. I feel bad for James and Winn standing right there. The show is clearly going to have galactic party boy eventually succeed and James and Winn may even be forced into being confidant or advice giver for one and/or the other.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That was my question -- I know the white Martians were experimenting on the Green Martians in the camps, but what would be the point of turning the Green Martians into White Martians ?  Other than creating a whole bunch of White Martians who were extremely pissed off at the OG White Martians.

Genocide through biological warfare was the point.  By turning the Green Martians into White Martians through forced blood transfusions, the White Martians would be able to wipe out the entire Green race without firing a shot.  Think of it as the White Martian equivalent of Borg assimilation.

[Primetimer]

Ranking the episode's plots and subplots, from A to 32-Epsilon-Z.

View the full article

[BooBear]

53 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Loved seeing Jeremiah, wish Kara would have told Alex "Dad's alive."  Come on Kara, he's both yours and Alex's father..

I find it really odd. The show always refers to him as "Alex's" dad. I mean, I suppose that Kara  had a dad for 13 years but even step kids call their step dad's dad. It is odd.  This was a slightly better episode but I always feel like I am struggling to find Kara in her own show and I feel like her "love" story is getting short shrift because the rest of the show is so packed.

James' plot, the less said about it the better.  J'John's plot, well same. Hank Henshaw.. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. really lame.

Really didn't understand the Cadmus plot. You have Supergirl without her powers. You hate Supergirl and see her as a threat to you and you... take her blood? No way. Talk about Monologing. Any criminal worth his or her weight would have pulled out a gun and poped her right between the eyes. I do not care what the ultimate explanation is.

I am warming up to Mon-el. Seems like he might have been suffering from a little deeper depression than the show let on if, indeed, he is the prince and let his people down. Kind of seems like he doesn't really care if he lives or not.  I actually think he would be good match for Kara. Not being from here he might not be hung up on being the alpha male and since he has powers he wouldn't be jealous (see James) and since they share a background of being alien outsiders but still not 100% the same since they are not from the same place, he could be a complement to her.  I think his head was turned by Kara putting her life on the line for him. From my point of view the problem is Kara sort of mas a motherly attitude with him that I think needs to change.

Edited November 22, 2016 by BooBear

[Black Knight]

Wow, since last night my irritation at Jeremiah has morphed into outright anger.

Thank goodness Kara had the sense not to repeat what he said to Alex, because I can’t imagine how hurt Alex would’ve been that that’s the first (and only) thing the father she lost when she was 15 said about her. Since he obviously missed it, Kara was trying to tell him how amazing Alex has been all these years, and his response was not “She obviously did a great job,” or “Then I’m proud of her too” or “Tell her I love her,” but, essentially, to say Alex shouldn’t have done it. It’s so dismissive of Alex’s life choices. Did Alex devote too much of her life to taking care of other people instead of herself? Sure, but that is not his place at this point in time to say. He wasn’t fucking there. He doesn’t know what she went through. Alex didn’t make herself a parentalized sibling, her parents did that when they brought Kara home and told Alex she was responsible for her, and then Alex lost her dad and then her mother kept telling her all the way to the present day to take care of her sister, so maybe shut the fuck up and just say that Alex did a great job. That’s what Kara had been trying to point out, that if he’s proud of her for what she’s become, then he should be proud of Alex too because Alex had more of a hand in that than anyone. More nuanced points can be saved for, you know, when he’s actually gotten to know Alex again and really heard about what’s been going on all these years he wasn’t there. Instead his first words are a backhanded compliment at best and a dismissive criticism at worst. Just what Alex needs from her father. UGH.

As for how Kara refers to Jeremiah, I think it's just a function of Kara only having known Jeremiah for a year before he "died," and he had to go to work for the DEO very early into that, so he was away a lot that year. She loved him but didn't get enough time with him to really start seeing him as her father. With older children especially, and especially those who already have parents, those things take time. She did get that time with Eliza and so Eliza gets the adoptive mother title - "adoptive" because Kara clearly still wishes to make sure the fact she had another, biological, mother isn't forgotten. Alex is different because Kara didn't have any siblings on Krypton, so there was no replacement factor there to complicate Kara's feelings.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Black Knight