S01.E08: Pilgrim Rick

[saber5055]

I know several people who have had gastric bypass. All lost tremendous amounts of weight ... and every single one gained it all back. Kate needs to "find herself" first, as she said, and learn that dieting is more than just eating dried leaves and cardboard. There actually IS real food she can eat to lose weight and keep it off.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

3) He was raised to not leave anyone alone on Thanksgiving (I know that's how I was raised). So as soon as he heard her plans, that immediately goes into the "I have to fix this."  Possibly some of the hero-trope thing going mixed in with just actually being a nice person.

It was a little bit Toby-ish of him and I wish he had left well enough alone.

1 hour ago, GodsBeloved said:

I must say that I am really surprised that Jack is still willing to spend Thanksgiving with Rebecca's family given how they treat Randall. Someone said they don't ever want to see grandma on screen. Me either because excluding Randall is down right vicious. 

Sad, too, that the phone call after the flat tire was the straw that broke the camel's back and not the earlier exclusion of Randall.

[atiyah9369]

7 hours ago, Bean421 said:

Rebecca's parents were icing Randall out of pictures?! Grandma needs to not show up in my screen, but I'm sure she will one day. So clearly little Randall was getting all kinds o messages that he didn't belong (not from Jack or Rebecca) which makes this secret so devastating. 

Olivia can also exit stage right and take Miguel with her.

Adult Big Three next week!

This hurt my heart. My cousin adopted a newborn girl and her in-laws act like she isn't family.  I always side eye those in-laws.

[izabella]

11 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

I know several people who have had gastric bypass. All lost tremendous amounts of weight ... and every single one gained it all back. Kate needs to "find herself" first, as she said, and learn that dieting is more than just eating dried leaves and cardboard. There actually IS real food she can eat to lose weight and keep it off.

I find the dried leaves and cardboard really weird.  Isn't Weight Watchers all about portion control and managing your protein/carbs/fat ratios with REAL food?  Because you can't live on dried leaves and cardboard and WILL eventually abandon that kind of diet because it's unrealistic and unappealing?  It's no better than those stupid cleanses and other fad diets.  I don't understand why Kate is eating that crap as it certainly isn't recommended as a good plan to lose weight.

[Jx223]

Quote

 

What I have noticed about this show is how Randall is so much like Jack; he's the one with the wife and children, he's the one who tries to be the "fun dad", tries to see the good in everything, the way Jack did.  Randall seems to be the one who keeps up the family traditions; even Jack's way of wearing a tie really stuck with Randall.  It's like the show is asking the question, "how important is blood if you're not around that blood?"

 

I agree. I think that is Randall is a lot like Jack and is the most like him out of The Big Three.

24 minutes ago, Tiger said:

 

I cant wait to see Jack with adult Randall next week and how they handle that.  I definitely think Randall has some sort of mental disorder/issue.

I honestly hope that is a dream and not some sort of mental issue. I don't want them pulling a "Providence" type of situation either. I hope it is just a dream that Randall ends up being comforted by.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jx223

[marceline]

19 minutes ago, atiyah9369 said:

This hurt my heart. My cousin adopted a newborn girl and her in-laws act like she isn't family.  I always side eye those in-laws.

 

I have a cousin like that. She treats her step grandchildren completely different from the biological ones. To the point where she only buys Christmas presents for some of them. It's shameful and hearing Randall say it was a common occurrence is the first time I've really questioned Rebecca and Jack's parenting. They do such a good job of standing up for Randall with the outside world it's sad they couldn't do it with her parents but that's not exactly unrealistic. I also found it offputting that Rebecca's mother refers to Kevin and Kate as "the twins." I understand why someone would say that for simplicity's sake but it just seemed off.

That minute of Randall sitting at the head of the table just crushed was almost unbearable. I'm nervous about what's going to happen between him and Beth when he finds out she knew. Randall and Beth are basically my Coach and Tami Taylor now.

Edited November 23, 2016 by marceline

[ShadowFacts]

37 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

It was sad how Randall found out about William and Rebecca knowing each other but I guess it was bound to happen.   I get his being upset.  Because Rebecca sought William out, she really could have sat Randall down when he was of age and told him what she knew about his father.  I don't think less of her for not telling Randall anything, since William was an active addict when she saw him.  Randall needs to understand that sometimes the universe knows what it's doing.  Had he looked for William when William was using drugs, he might have just written the man off forever, maybe William might have tried to scam him for money, maybe Randall might have wasted time and energy trying to get William into recovery.  If any of those things had happened, which can happen with an addict, Randall might have written off his father forever.  Now, even though William is dying, Randall can at least have some kind of relationship with the man.

One thing keeps me from totally seeing it this way, and that is that Randall found a box full of several tapes.  Even if each Thanksgiving jam session took more than one tape, or tapes were made on other occasions, there was a long time period of sobriety covered there.  Years went by and Randall and William could have been in communication.  I don't think the universe did know what it was doing here in this case.  I don't think I could be in Randall's shoes and say que sera, sera.  A sad loss of opportunity for him to know his roots. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, marceline said:

I have a cousin like that. She treats her step grandchildren completely different from the biological ones. To the point where she only buys Christmas presents for some of them. It's shameful and hearing Randall say it was a common occurrence is the first time I've really questioned Rebecca and Jack's parenting. They do such a good job of standing up for Randall with the outside world it's sad they couldn't do it with her parents but that's not exactly unrealistic. I also found it offputting that Rebecca's mother refers to Kevin and Kate as "the twins." I understand why someone would say that for simplicity's sake but seemed off.

That minute of Randall sitting at the head of the table just crushed was almost unbearable. I'm nervous about what's going to happen between him and Beth when he finds out she knew. Randall and Beth are basically my Coach and Tami Taylor now.

I side-eye them too, but I can't imagine how Rebecca's relationship with her parents has affected her ability to stand up for them, even for Randall. Standing up to family is always hard. I think back to myself and my own family. When I was younger, I was the least favorite child for my grandmother when it came to me and my sister. When I was at my grandmother's house and did something bad (or "bad" because my mother reminds me that I was actually a well behaved child), I was punished by my grandmother and had to often sit on her stairs alone while my sister never had to. My mother and father were never great at standing up to her, not for a while anyway. Unless I was being physically harmed (I never was by my grandmother to my recollection) or if it wasn't something really serious from the get-go, my parents could only do so much because of my grandmother's stubborn and mean attitude. Now, my relationship with her is much better than it was ten years ago, but there was a long time when I resented her and, by extent, my mother for not protecting me better. But I'm now aware that standing up to family is harder than people think and it's not always the easiest decision. My mother and father both loved me and protected me to the best of their ability, but there's only so much they can do as well. 

I guess I see Rebecca as someone who hadn't been able to stand up to her parents because as much as she cared for them, she knew they were wrong in many of their choices. It's clear that this episode, Rebecca had a hard time in even telling her mom that they weren't coming for Thanksgiving. She finally took a small step to break the vicious cycle that Rebecca was putting herself and her family through with her family. So I don't fault her for the relationship between Randall and his grandparents. Rebecca didn't even know Randall's feelings until the road trip, anyway. She didn't realize that it hurt him more than it hurt her. It's just so realistic and so raw. It's easy to put the blame on Rebecca and Jack, but the hard part is admitting that they're not really at fault and they probably did the best job that they could with Rebecca's parents. 

Now, did Jack say that both of his parents were dead in this episode? I imagine if Jack's parents are dead when the kids are 8 years old, that's why they keep going to Rebecca's. They can't get out of a holiday with family if one side is dead or distant from them. 

[Jx223]

23 minutes ago, marceline said:

 It's shameful and hearing Randall say it was a common occurrence is the first time I've really questioned Rebecca and Jack's parenting. They do such a good job of standing up for Randall with the outside world it's sad they couldn't do it with her parents but that's not exactly unrealistic. I also found it offputting that Rebecca's mother refers to Kevin and Kate as "the twins." I understand why someone would say that for simplicity's sake but seemed off.

It seems even more out of place when you consider that Randall has been with the family since he was a baby. I might could understand the grandmother slipping up and doing it once or twice if Randall had just been adopted into the family and she was used to only focusing on the twins.It wouldn't excuse the behavior but I could maybe understand that a little.

But Randall came home with Kate/Kevin and has been apart of the family as long as they have. It should never be a just twins type of thing. Unless she's also going to do a just Randall and Kate, and just the boys pics as well. I know some people who like to do "just the..." type of pics but they do that to highlight all of the combinations of special relationships (Like just the sons,just the daughters, just the grandparents) in a family. And they aren't trying to exclude in a hurtful way.

Rebecca's mother was definitely wrong for her treatment of Randall and maybe we will see Jack/Rebecca eventually address that with her.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jx223

[photo fox]

ENOUGH. I just had to hide a bunch of posts. The original comment was made, someone responded in civil way, and now I'm asking everyone to let it go.

In future, if someone makes a comment that you think crosses the line, report it.

If you find yourself arguing the same point back and forth with the same person, change your focus.

Weight is a very sensitive topic for some people. There are many people reading our comments who live life at every size. Let's remember that and use some sensitivity.

[Neurochick]

10 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Years went by and Randall and William could have been in communication.  I don't think the universe did know what it was doing here in this case.  I don't think I could be in Randall's shoes and say que sera, sera.  A sad loss of opportunity for him to know his roots. 

I did not say that Randall should not be angry, but I do think the universe knew what it was doing.  There were a lot of tapes, but that doesn't mean continuous sobriety; most people who get sober do relapse.  I think Rebecca should have told Randall about his father, when he was an adult and then it would have been Randall's choice to have a relationship or not.  But Randall will never know what would have happened "if."  You can speculate until you're insane, but IMO being resentful forever doesn't work for anybody.  Randall should be angry and talk to both Rebecca and William about it; "why didn't you tell me?" "why didn't you find me?"

There was a time when some parents never told their children they were adopted.  I remember the story of a local anchor in NYC, who found out she was adopted after her parents had died.

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

Complaints: A walk that long would take two hours. Why not walk 20 minutes to keep tradition.

It would probably only take an hour (a reasonable ambling pace is 3 mph), but yeah, that's a long time for Chef Randall to be away from the kitchen! I am a big walker myself (hence the screenname) but "exactly 3.4 miles" every year is a weird hill to die on ;)

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

One thing keeps me from totally seeing it this way, and that is that Randall found a box full of several tapes.  Even if each Thanksgiving jam session took more than one tape, or tapes were made on other occasions, there was a long time period of sobriety covered there.  Years went by and Randall and William could have been in communication.  I don't think the universe did know what it was doing here in this case.  I don't think I could be in Randall's shoes and say que sera, sera.  A sad loss of opportunity for him to know his roots. 

Exactly, and the wording in Rebecca's letter ("it was good to see you, you looked well ...") sounded like William was already sober when Randall was eight years old. She knew that at his core William was a good man, that he cared about Randall, that he had gotten his life in order, so she should have told Randall that she knows who his biological father is when he turned 18, and let him decide what to do with that information. Randall could have had a relationship with William for the past 18 years, but Rebecca took that away from him. I don't know that I would be able to forgive that, were I in Randall's shoes.

56 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I get Olivia.  From what she said, she is from a dysfunctional fucked up family where everybody pretended everything was okay when it wasn't, so because of that she doesn't trust simplicity; I didn't find her mean, it's just that she doesn't trust what's in front of her.

I disagree. We've seen her be intentionally rude and inconsiderate on several occasions now. She treats other people's pain as fodder for her "art". A dysfunctional family is not an excuse to treat anyone that way.

About Randall preparing the entire Thanksgiving meal on the day - not only did he do that, he also managed to squeeze in a 3.4 mile hike and a two-hour trip to Philly. It's almost scary how efficient he is.

[Neurochick]

16 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Exactly, and the wording in Rebecca's letter ("it was good to see you, you looked well ...") sounded like William was already sober when Randall was eight years old. She knew that at his core William was a good man, that he cared about Randall, that he had gotten his life in order, so she should have told Randall that she knows who his biological father is when he turned 18, and let him decide what to do with that information. Randall could have had a relationship with William for the past 18 years, but Rebecca took that away from him. I don't know that I would be able to forgive that, were I in Randall's shoes.

So you couldn't forgive the person who mothered you because she didn't allow you to meet a man who basically was stranger to Randall. IMO Jack was his father.  Randall is more like Jack than William because Jack raised him.    I don't get why biology is SO important, it's who raises you that's important.  Who is to say that Randall and William would have had any type of relationship?  

Years ago, people didn't tell things to children, ever.  I went to school with a girl who didn't know she had four half siblings, until she was twenty years old.  I went to school with a girl who, when her mother died of cancer, her father sent her to school the next day and didn't allow her to go to the funeral.  IMO none of this stuff was right, but both of these women came to realize many years later that their parents did what they did because they thought they were protecting them.  The father of the girl whose mom died thought his daughter (she was about 7 at the time) wouldn't be able to handle a funeral and wanted her life to go on as normal.  People do all kinds of screwed up stuff when they think they're protecting you. 

16 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I disagree. We've seen her be intentionally rude and inconsiderate on several occasions now. She treats other people's pain as fodder for her "art". A dysfunctional family is not an excuse to treat anyone that way.

I think she acts that way because she doesn't know what real emotions are, she doesn't know what real feelings are, she doesn't know what the truth is.  

Edited November 23, 2016 by Neurochick

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I think she acts that way because she doesn't know what real emotions are, she doesn't know what real feelings are, she doesn't know what the truth is.

Yeah, her asking William "what's it like to be dying?" just seemed like she was studying him to try to get insight on her acting, not like she actually had human feelings on the matter. It was kind of disturbing.

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Yeah, her asking William "what's it like to be dying?" just seemed like she was studying him to try to get insight on her acting, not like she actually had human feelings on the matter. It was kind of disturbing.

 

And I think the first time we've EVER seen her actually "moved" was by what William said to her.  It really was a beautiful speech.  One I feel like writing down and giving to my children.  This episode had that on-going theme of "time is fleeting".  And of course what Traditions do is tie us to our past, which often puts us in a reflective mood regarding the time that has come and gone while we have a particular tradition.  I thought the Pearson Thankgiving was very sweet.  And one that the Big 3 won't ever give up on. Even though Randall is very upset right now, I think he'll still NEED that tradition in the future.

[Neurochick]

5 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Yeah, her asking William "what's it like to be dying?" just seemed like she was studying him to try to get insight on her acting, not like she actually had human feelings on the matter. It was kind of disturbing.

I agree.  I don't think Olivia knows how to draw on any emotion, which is why she dragged Kevin to that repass of someone she did not know.  

I remember getting someone that "how are you feeling today" poster; because when you'd ask her she would say, "I don't know," because in her world, certain feelings weren't acceptable; like if someone was sick, no one would talk about it, if someone died, no one ever mentioned their name again.  

[ShadowFacts]

24 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Exactly, and the wording in Rebecca's letter ("it was good to see you, you looked well ...") sounded like William was already sober when Randall was eight years old. She knew that at his core William was a good man, that he cared about Randall, that he had gotten his life in order, so she should have told Randall that she knows who his biological father is when he turned 18, and let him decide what to do with that information. Randall could have had a relationship with William for the past 18 years, but Rebecca took that away from him. I don't know that I would be able to forgive that, were I in Randall's shoes.

I disagree. We've seen her be intentionally rude and inconsiderate on several occasions now. She treats other people's pain as fodder for her "art". A dysfunctional family is not an excuse to treat anyone that way.

About Randall preparing the entire Thanksgiving meal on the day - not only did he do that, he also managed to squeeze in a 3.4 mile hike and a two-hour trip to Philly. It's almost scary how efficient he is.

Yes to your whole post, and it is scary how much Randall did in one day, which is one clue in the direction of mania.  Of course, I'm not 36 and maybe a wimp, but that would all exhaust me.

 

11 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

So you couldn't forgive the person who mothered you because she didn't allow you to meet a man who basically was stranger to Randall. IMO Jack was his father.  Randall is more like Jack than William because Jack raised him.    I don't get why biology is SO important, it's who raises you that's important.  Who is to say that Randall and William would have had any type of relationship?  

Years ago, people didn't tell things to children, ever.  I went to school with a girl who didn't know she had four half siblings, until she was twenty years old.  I went to school with a girl who, when her mother died of cancer, her father sent her to school the next day and didn't allow her to go to the funeral.  IMO none of this stuff was right, but both of these women came to realize many years later that their parents did what they did because they thought they were protecting them.  The father of the girl whose mom died thought his daughter (she was about 7 at the time) wouldn't be able to handle a funeral and wanted her life to go on as normal.  People do all kinds of screwed up stuff when they think they're protecting you. 

Of course Jack was his father.  But Randall, maybe especially being black in a white family and community, could have potentially benefited from knowing his biological father, and his cultural roots.  To take that possibility away is not a good thing in my eyes.  When a person finds out adoption facts at a point when it's kind of too late, like the TV anchor mentioned above, there will be lots of questions that can't be answered, and I would think that would be hard to live the rest of one's life at peace with.  Any adoption is going to involve a certain amount of sadness, or it wouldn't have happened.  The idea of protecting someone actually ends up backfiring, and secrets so often come out in a more painful way than necessary.  And I suspect Randall being the person he is, will forgive Rebecca.  He loves her dearly, calls her Mommy.  It will take time, but he probably will understand.  From what we've seen of him, I would bet he will make the most of the time he has left with William and lay aside any bitterness pretty quick. 

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, Jx223 said:

I agree. I think that is Randall is a lot like Jack and is the most like him out of The Big Three.

I honestly hope that is a dream and not some sort of mental issue. I don't want them pulling a "Providence" type of situation either. I hope it is just a dream that Randall ends up being comforted by.

My comment shouls have been more clear.  I think Randall has some sort of mental issue/disorder that at least from the promo have nothing to do with him seeing Jack.

His behavior when he first met William, with Beth in the hotel room, Beth's initial warning to William, Beth's look when Randall almost put pills in the blender, and other incidents suggest that Randall suffers from some sort of mania.  

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes to your whole post, and it is scary how much Randall did in one day, which is one clue in the direction of mania.  Of course, I'm not 36 and maybe a wimp, but that would all exhaust me.

I am 36, and while I could do the cooking in one day (minus dessert, it looked like Rebecca and Miguel brought two pies), there's no way I'd also do a hike and a 2-hour drive.

[Crs97]

Maybe Rebecca said in the letter that he looked good because the last time she saw him he was still using.  Maybe we will find out that he relapsed a lot and didn't want his son to see him like that.  He even told Rebecca that he believed their pact was best for Randall.

I also hope we find out that Rebecca never saw Kevin live because he as a child said she made him too nervous if she was in the audience.  One of my sisters wouldn't let my mom come to sporting events for that reason.

Rebecca said that she would talk to her parents again so she had tried to stop the behavior previously; I am glad she cancelled finally.

[DearEvette]

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

This is pure speculation by me, but I think the Rebecca not knowing about Kevin's play stuff was really heavy-handed.

It kind was, but I can't front, I watched this episode twice and still don't remember the name of the show.  The Back of an Egg?  Or The Broken Egg?  All I can remember is something about an egg.  TBH, it is just one of those titles that begs to be forgotten.  It reminds me of when Annie asked "what is this even about?" with her skeptical little face. 

I am in the minority, I don't hate Miguel.  He's no Jack and I am kind of in the place of the kids where I resent him for being there when Jack isn't and for trying to horn in with the hat.  But I don't hate him per se because he does seem like he is trying -- asking Kevin about the play and all.  I am intrigued by the backstory and am reserving judgement though. 

Randall and Kevin's entire conversation when Kevin tells Randall he is inviting Olivia is comedy gold.  Randall's english accent, his assurances that she would find him hotter than Kevin, the "I am cool as the other side of the pillow" sassy eye wink.  So much fun there. That's the awkward goofy Randall I like and that is the bro-teasing stuff I want to see more between the siblings.

[memememe76]

10 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

It kind was, but I can't front, I watched this episode twice and still don't remember the name of the show.  The Back of an Egg?  Or The Broken Egg?  All I can remember is something about an egg.  TBH, it is just one of those titles that begs to be forgotten.  It reminds me of when Annie asked "what is this even about?" with her skeptical little face. 

 

I didn't get the name either and closed captioning wasn't working. What *is* the name of the Play? 

[SueB]

24 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

It kind was, but I can't front, I watched this episode twice and still don't remember the name of the show.  The Back of an Egg?  Or The Broken Egg?  All I can remember is something about an egg.  TBH, it is just one of those titles that begs to be forgotten.  It reminds me of when Annie asked "what is this even about?" with her skeptical little face. 

I am in the minority, I don't hate Miguel.  He's no Jack and I am kind of in the place of the kids where I resent him for being there when Jack isn't and for trying to horn in with the hat.  But I don't hate him per se because he does seem like he is trying -- asking Kevin about the play and all.  I am intrigued by the backstory and am reserving judgement though. 

Randall and Kevin's entire conversation when Kevin tells Randall he is inviting Olivia is comedy gold.  Randall's english accent, his assurances that she would find him hotter than Kevin, the "I am cool as the other side of the pillow" sassy eye wink.  So much fun there. That's the awkward goofy Randall I like and that is the bro-teasing stuff I want to see more between the siblings.

 

 

"Thanksgiving Dad is a hot Dad." (as he does the ROBOT!)  I could watch an hour of just those two bantering. 

 

ETA: I ALWAYS do all of Thanksgiving dinner in one day EXCEPT the pumpkin pie.  And Randall subcontracted that out to Rebecca.  She brought the pie. Now I don't drive 2+ hrs or take a 1 hr walk BEFORE dinner... but I do get a post-Turkey walk in after dinner.   The drive is just NOPE. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by SueB

[Crs97]

Monday-shop, gravy, cranberries

Tuesday-chop vegetables, 2 pies, steam green beans

Wednesday-1 pie, rolls, sweet potatoes 

Rest of the stuff on Thanksgiving day

[bybrandy]

24 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I didn't get the name either and closed captioning wasn't working. What *is* the name of the Play? 

I thought it was "the back of the neck"   Or maybe "the back of the head"   Yeah,... I've got nothing.  

But Kevin did say he'd told her like 8 times.
 

[PRgal]

38 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes to your whole post, and it is scary how much Randall did in one day, which is one clue in the direction of mania.  Of course, I'm not 36 and maybe a wimp, but that would all exhaust me.

 

Of course Jack was his father.  But Randall, maybe especially being black in a white family and community, could have potentially benefited from knowing his biological father, and his cultural roots.  To take that possibility away is not a good thing in my eyes.  When a person finds out adoption facts at a point when it's kind of too late, like the TV anchor mentioned above, there will be lots of questions that can't be answered, and I would think that would be hard to live the rest of one's life at peace with.  Any adoption is going to involve a certain amount of sadness, or it wouldn't have happened.  The idea of protecting someone actually ends up backfiring, and secrets so often come out in a more painful way than necessary.  And I suspect Randall being the person he is, will forgive Rebecca.  He loves her dearly, calls her Mommy.  It will take time, but he probably will understand.  From what we've seen of him, I would bet he will make the most of the time he has left with William and lay aside any bitterness pretty quick. 

But the black people in Randall's life don't have to be genetically related to him.  There was the lady from the pool, for example.  What I DO dislike was the open relationship that Rebecca and William had that was kept from Randall.  You either keep in touch with the birth parent(s) ALONG with the child, or you don't do see them at all - at least not until the child is 18.  In both cases, you HAVE to discuss adoption with the child, though.

Randall and the other Pearson siblings didn't grow up in a time where things were completely kept away - at least not THIS side of the Pacific (or Atlantic).  I think things might be different in Asia - when my husband and I first started looking into adoption, my mom asked me if I'd be telling our son/daughter about being adopted.  This was circa 2013.  I rolled my eyes because my husband and I are interethnic/interfaith and the likelihood of adopting a child who is of the same/similar ethnic mix was slim to none. 

As for the grandparents not liking Randall as much - I can relate to that too.  My mom once told me that my paternal grandmother thought of me as more "barbaric" than her Hong Kong-born/raised granddaughters.  If this is correct, I'm sure my grandmother felt similarly about my male Canadian-born cousins, but they're a bit preferred because they're guys and will carry on the family name (provided they have (male) children). 

[kili]

Quote

 I get his being upset.  Because Rebecca sought William out, she really could have sat Randall down when he was of age and told him what she knew about his father.  I don't think less of her for not telling Randall anything, since William was an active addict when she saw him.  Randall needs to understand that sometimes the universe knows what it's doing.  Had he looked for William when William was using drugs, he might have just written the man off forever, maybe William might have tried to scam him for money, maybe Randall might have wasted time and energy trying to get William into recovery

In a previous episode, William mentioned that he got a scar while protesting civil rights. Randall asked him when that was and I seem to recall that William said that it was in the mid-80s and he was clean by that time. Randall got a weird look on his face and I interpreted to mean that Randall though he could have known him back then. That while William was fighting for the rights of other school kids, he didn't even know where his own kid was.

I think that giving up Randall and losing his wife was the impetus that got William clean. I think he has been clean for a long time. The number of Thanksgiving tapes and the letter seem to back that up.

Rebecca probably thought that she should "wait a little longer" to "make sure" he wouldn't relapse, but every mini-milestone she set herself probably came and went and she "still wasn't sure....it won't hurt to wait a little longer".  And then, after a while, it had been so long that she began to fear that Randall would be mad for being kept apart for so long.

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

I thought it was "the back of the neck"   Or maybe "the back of the head"   Yeah,... I've got nothing.  

But Kevin did say he'd told her like 8 times.
 

 

 

Back of the Egg ... which is a weird name, Kevin.  I can't claim I'd have remembered it too, I had to watch CC to be sure I got the title right. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by SueB

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, Bluedog100 said:

Apologies if this was mentioned and I missed it.  But regarding Randall's feelings for Miguel, when Becca and Miguel first stopped by Randall's home on their way to the theatre, Randall had a throwaway line that many may have missed.  When telling them goodbye Randall said to Miguel, "thanks for stopping by without calling."  Or "thanks for stopping by unexpectedly."  Something to the effect that made it sound it a little bit caustic.  There was no affection there.

I  had forgotten that!  Wow, I can't imagine not being welcome to drop in on my son, now and then.  Not that I wouldn't probably always call first, but still, that would hurt to think I couldn't follow an impulse on the way to the theatre.

Re the cooking: I always cook for my family, and like Randall, I do it all the same day.  Baked goods just always taste best the day they're made, so I do them in the morning, vegetables are best prepared at the last minute, and we always have the hot carved turkey, so what it comes down to is a whole day cooking and more minute timing than a Nasa launch.  There's no way in this world I would get it all on the table, piping hot, and decide to send the kids away and let it all go tepid while I had a family show down.

[Jx223]

25 minutes ago, SueB said:

"Thanksgiving Dad is a hot Dad." (as he does the ROBOT!)  I could watch an hour of just those two bantering. 

 

ETA: I ALWAYS do all of Thanksgiving dinner in one day EXCEPT the pumpkin pie.  And Randall subcontracted that out to Rebecca.  She brought the pie. Now I don't drive 2+ hrs or take a 1 hr walk BEFORE dinner... but I do get a post-Turkey walk in after dinner.   The drive is just NOPE. 

Rebecca was also shown helping Randall prepare some vegetables while they were in the kitchen together. Maybe she helped him out with a few other items while they were in there.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

There's some real hate for Kevin from every family member who did not take advantage and ride his coattails of fame.

Doing those things shows the opposite of hate?

[buckboard]

Regarding Rebecca forgetting what the name of Kevin's show was, I can never remember the name of THIS show.  I always want to call it "Just Like Us."  

There are just some shows I can never get straight.  I have to stop and concentrate to remember which is which among "All My Children," "All My Sons" and "My Three Sons."  

[ShadowFacts]

25 minutes ago, PRgal said:

But the black people in Randall's life don't have to be genetically related to him.  There was the lady from the pool, for example.  What I DO dislike was the open relationship that Rebecca and William had that was kept from Randall.  You either keep in touch with the birth parent(s) ALONG with the child, or you don't do see them at all - at least not until the child is 18.  In both cases, you HAVE to discuss adoption with the child, though.

Right, but in this case, the black connection that could have meant most was in his backyard with his mother's (and maybe father's) full knowledge.  I mean I think they had Randall be black to add this extra layer.  I'm just looking at it from Randall's perspective, how it must feel for him to know that.  It would be so very difficult for me to be faced with that.  As it is, he and William have developed a warm, easy relationship in a short time.  Undoubtedly it would have not been exactly like this earlier, but once he reached adulthood, I think he should have had the choice and the possibility.

[J0nas3]

8 hours ago, Haleth said:

And wait till he finds out Beth already knew.  Oh, boy.

They could go there (it is a TV show,) but I hope they don't. Beth found out less than a week ago and went straight to Rebecca so that she could tell him. Not like she joined a conspiracy of silence or something.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, kili said:

Quote

Maybe she doesn't like to fly? 

There are lots of other ways to travel between New York and LA. You can take a train, bus or car. You can even take a boat.

Sure, if you're flexible.  Some people just don't like to travel.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Sometimes her memory is excellent especially when it comes to work, and other times I wonder if she's even listening to people when they talk because of her repetition in questions. 

I assume that her hearing has been checked?  Sometimes it's as simple as a hearing problem that the person won't admit to/is not aware of having.  You can't remember what you didn't hear.

Edited November 23, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, marceline said:

I also found it offputting that Rebecca's mother refers to Kevin and Kate as "the twins."

At first I agreed with this, but the truth is, since birth they have not been a set of triplets.  It has nothing to do with Randall's skin color;  to consider them triplets would mean that children are interchangeable, and that a dead child can simply be replaced by a living child of the same age.  That would be a terrible reason to adopt.

[Sake614]

I dunno, when I'm hosting thanksgiving I do most of the cooking same day. Cranberry sauce, rolls and pies are made in advance but everything else is done that day. Of course I can't move for the rest of the weekend but I want everything to be fresh. I can't even imagine cooking the turkey in advance.

[ClareWalks]

Today I assembled my casseroles (green bean and sweet potato) but I will actually cook them tomorrow. That way I get the best of both worlds - fresh taste with minimal day-of effort!

[Lady Calypso]

26 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I assume that her hearing has been checked?  Sometimes it's as simple as a hearing problem that the person won't admit to/is not aware of having.  You can't remember what you didn't hear.

Luckily, she makes sure she checks every couple of years, so her hearing's good too! Sometimes it's just a matter of her having too much on her mind!

23 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

At first I agreed with this, but the truth is, since birth they have not been a set of triplets.  It has nothing to do with Randall's skin color;  to consider them triplets would mean that children are interchangeable, and that a dead child can simply be replaced by a living child of the same age.  That would be a terrible reason to adopt.

That's a very good point. We don't know how Rebecca's mother really feels about Randall because we know so little about her. All we can guess is that she has an issue with Randall in particular by making him feel left out and possibly not loved by them. 

[Tiger]

42 minutes ago, J0nas3 said:

They could go there (it is a TV show,) but I hope they don't. Beth found out less than a week ago and went straight to Rebecca so that she could tell him. Not like she joined a conspiracy of silence or something.

In the words of GH's Carly, it wasnt her secret to tell.

In all seriousness, if Rebecca stated that she wasnt going to tell Randall, then Beth would have every right to.  But until or unless Rebecca did that, Beth had to keep it to herself.

[ProudMary]

Some random comments about the episode:

In general, I'm not liking Miguel either.  The writers are doing a great job if that is their intent.  Like many, I don't think Miguel should ever have asked to wear the hat.  That should be exclusively for Jack's kids.  I hope the writers address why the hat goes back and forth only between Kevin and Randall and why Kate isn't included.  I'd like to know the story behind that.  But back to Miguel; there's no reason why he couldn't find a few quiet moments with Tess and Annie to share some funny, made-up, creative Thanksgiving stories without "wearing the hat."  Of course, that's only if his step granddaughters are truly at the center of his request.  I'm thinking that it's really all about Miguel getting attention and validation as a true family member.  If that is the case, he needs to find some other way to achieve this.  

IMO, Olivia only agreed to join Kevin at his family's Thanksgiving meal when she heard details about them and assumed they were interesting enough for her to "mine" some acting tips for herself.  That is some textbook chutzpah to ask William, someone she JUST met, what it's like to know you're dying.  That was quite a scene.

I really wonder if the show will actually follow through on Kate having gastric bypass surgery.  This is just my layman's opinion, but from what we've seen of the character to date, I don't think she's psychologically ready to have the surgery and I know that any candidate has to go through some pretty intensive pre-surgical evaluation to qualify.   

I also wonder if the exposition of the fact that Rebecca knew William for so many years and kept it from Randall will lead to the revelation of something else that has perhaps also been kept secret.  We've speculated in other threads as to whether or not the "twins" know that they were actually triplets at birth.  Does that come out in the wash too as Randall learns that Rebecca knew who William was from the day the babies left the hospital?

And, on a last completely shallow note:  Do you think Toby will sleep with the copy girl?
(I'm sorry.  That was the first thing that ran through my mind when Kate told Toby she thought they should take a break!)

[ShadowFacts]

My hat's off to all who cook the whole shebang the same day, but with anywhere from 12 to 20 people (people do contribute sides) I am not able to do it and spend any time with anybody.  I guess I just need Randall in my kitchen with his Thanksgiving skills and if it gets too hot in there and he has to take off his shirt, I'll find a way to deal. 

So what with Randall's travels and Kate's late arrival, did the Piersons make it to the pie? 

[Haleth]

17 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

So what with Randall's travels and Kate's late arrival, did the Piersons make it to the pie? 

It looks like the fireworks started before anyone took a bite. Randall should have waited till dessert. Hope Olivia ate the pie. Those poor girls up in their room must be pretty hungry. 

I've been doing Thanksgiving so long I have it down to a science. I start making sides 2 days ahead then only have the turkey and mashed potatoes to do on the day. Who wants to be in the kitchen all day?

[kili]

Quote

So what with Randall's travels and Kate's late arrival, did the Piersons make it to the pie?

Olivia did.

We comment about Miguel and Kevin showing up unannounced...Kate appears to have walked right into Randall's house. If the kids let her in on their way upstairs, you think she would have been clued in that drama was afoot.

BTW, those are some good kids. I admit it. I would totally have been slowly making my way up the stairs so that I could hear what was going on. I might have even complained if I had been waiting all day to eat and got sent up to my room when I had done nothing wrong.

Quote

IMO, Olivia only agreed to join Kevin at his family's Thanksgiving meal when she heard details about them and assumed they were interesting enough for her to "mine" some acting tips for herself.  That is some textbook chutzpah to ask William, someone she JUST met, what it's like to know you're dying.

I suspect that she does those sorts of things to keep people at bay. She puts up the walls and is offensive to protect herself from everybody else. She can't even take a thoughtful piece of pie because it means she is making connections. It sounds like her family is so messed up, she acts with everybody. Probably why she is a good actress.

She got more than she bargained for with William who is so passed all the nonsense of life, he answered her question instead of being offended. The Wise Owl gave her advice she badly needed. She has to stop trying to avoid life and live it because it will be over before she knows it.

[pennben]

6 minutes ago, Haleth said:

. Who wants to be in the kitchen all day?

Depending on who in my family is showing up, sometimes I do!!

[Empress1]

9 hours ago, MissT said:

I think he lives in NJ as well.   BTW -- the short cut for Philadelphia is Philly --- no "ie" at the end.    Lived here all my life.  

I love the show and I still want to know what happened to the cat -- anyone?

I'm from Philly too and I used to have a friend who lived across the country who would spell it "Phillie." She was like "Couldn't you spell it either way?" Me: " ... No."

Everything about Randall’s wake-up Thanksgiving montage was gold. I loved his dancing, I love the detail that Beth wraps her head for bed, I loved that William looked like “What in THE hell is going on?” when Randall woke him up, I loved when he called his daughters “little turkey and medium turkey.” I loved it all.

I fast-forwarded through all Olivia’s scenes except the one with William, because I love William. Don’t like her, don’t care.

Totally agree that Miguel had no business asking to wear the hat. That’s a very specific tradition that should be preserved. I was pissed when he asked and pissed when Kevin acquiesced.

Why would they take William on a 3.4 mile hike though? And I’m livid at Rebecca’s parents for leaving Randall out of photos, and at Rebecca for not doing anything about it for eight years. Rebecca should have checked them on that IMMEDIATELY, and it should have been a deal-breaker – “you include my son in all the photos or we don’t come back.”

My heart broke for Randall when the truth came out. Every single time he asked his mother about his birth father, she lied to his face. That's horrible. And now Thanksgiving will be the holiday where this horrible secret came out.

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree with Empress1. How many people would insist that their senior parent who is a sick cancer patient hike for 3.4 miles on a holiday?  Odd. lol  

[saber5055]

"Doing those things shows the opposite of hate?" Yeah, they hate/dislike Kevin so much, they don't even take advantage of his being rich and famous. They want nothing to do with him. Shunning is worse than hate. Too funny that no one here (well, almost no one) remembers the name of Kevin's play either. So I cut Rebecca some slack on that count.