The After Show: Because You Can't Get Enough

[BettyPoz]

I just watched the Aftershow and all I can say is WTF??????

 

These people - aside from Sarah and Jordan - are crackers jack crazy!!  OMG I wanted to smack Johnny and his friendship schtick.  And Nia? she just needs to really shut up.  Don't even try to justify your behavior or lead us to believe you are maturing or learning from your mistakes in any way.

 

Johnny seems like the sort that will just be all "hurt" to try and bait someone into apologizing or something.  Very Wes-like.

[joanne3482]

ITA though, that there really is no basis for Bananas claiming that he's the reason Sarah's in the final.  Sure, he didn't toss them in when he could have, but he had bigger fish to fry. It wasn't because he wanted to save his BFF Sarah, ffs.

 

Yeah, it had nothing to do with the fact that Sarah and Jordan won three challenges (two when it counted the most) to Bananas' one challenge win (wherein they tossed in newcomers Hailey and Thomas) or their win in their own dome when they had to do it. 

[NikSac]

I hope Nia's off TV permanently after this. So disgusting. I was bummed she was on the after-show - I was hoping she was kicked off completely.

 

I also can't stand Jordan, but I was happy that Sarah won.

[scrb]

Is there an after show for the new season, either on air or online only?

[Lantern7]

According to my cable schedule, an after-show episode is slated to run on Wednesday after 11 p.m.

[scrb]

Thanks, I just set it on my DVR to record.

 

I used to watch on the MTV app on my iPad but that was horrible to navigate.  Maybe it's better after a redesign.

[Lantern7]

Gotta love the behind-the-scenes stuff with the imported spiders and the production crew's inability to mess with them. Even if they weren't venomous, I would have taken the snakes. Too many bad memories associated with Coral.

 

Best expression seen on the show comes from Jill, when Cohutta confessed to stuffing his pillowcase with Nany's panties. The look was basically, "And I'm related to you?!? The fuck???"

[Jobiska]

I usually approach my recording of the after show with trepidation--partly because the loathsome Bananas seems to be on 95% of them, partly because these people are still arguing and fussing even when they're not drunk or in the heat of competition.  

But this one was golden.  Who knew it was expensive to import spiders from Romania?  Who, also, knew that production was apparently about as wise as Jenna, because you'd think they'd suss out that the spiders en masse could be overly venemous before they went to all the trouble to import them from Romania.  

In fact, who knew Romania was a prime source of tarantulas?  Not I!

And the rest was mostly good because of Cohutta.

[KerleyQ]

For someone who doesn't like when the other cast members gossip about and judge her sex life, Nany certainly isn't shy about participating in the "Cara Maria's a big old cheater" conversation. 

 

Jenna and Briana strike me as the kind of cousins who have been forced to be "friends" their whole lives despite not really liking each other, so they take some level of pleasure in the other's suffering.  When Jenna said that she know Brianna is competitive, I figured that was the reason she chose her to come along (either that or she was the only person in her family in the relevant age range who was willing to go play fame whore for a couple weeks).  What she doesn't get is that Brianna is, apparently, only competitive with her.  If whoever is paired up with her next episode is smart, they'll subtly use that to encourage her to compete harder.  "Keep going, we're going to beat Jenna!"  

[kat165]

None of them are particularly shy talking about Cara being a big old cheater. I guess they're just excited to see/hear about Abe's reaction. Johnny cracked me up tonight when he said he wouldn't be surprised to see Cara and Thomas's faces on the back of milk cartons sometime soon.

[Lantern7]

Putting aside that lost people don't appear on milk cartons these days  . . . it feels so weird to be validated by Challengers (especially Johnny) about Abram being a psycho. We'd probably disagree on everything else, but the thought of Abram putting Thomas and Cara Maria in shallow graves would unite us.

 

Vince may be a dick, but he's not his cousin. Johnny wrote the book about being an asshole.

[yogi2014L]

I couldn't get over Johnny saying he wouldn't bitch and complain about be put into the pit. We all remember you being a HUGE FREAKNG BABY about Sarah voting you in, good sir.

[lilabennet]

I couldn't get over Johnny saying he wouldn't bitch and complain about be put into the pit. We all remember you being a HUGE FREAKNG BABY about Sarah voting you in, good sir.

He was talking about campaigning before being put in, not being a whiny baby after the fact.  I think that is an extremely fine hair to split, Bananas.

[Racj82]

He was talking about campaigning before being put in, not being a whiny baby after the fact. I think that is an extremely fine hair to split, Bananas.

Its not really because he gets in a huff, makes threats, etc when his name is brought up for pits all the time. He has no chill either. Really they almost always get mad so whatever. Camilla just goes on some extra level shit when she gets mad and it gets old.

[Lantern7]

In regards to Tony . . . what exactly does a spleen do? At least the scar from the incision looked small. I'd hate to think what would have happened if somebody's liver ruptured.

 

And man, it really has been fourteen years since Aneesa was on Real World: Chicago. That's an eternity in reality time.

[karenc3]

In regards to Tony . . . what exactly does a spleen do? At least the scar from the incision looked small. I'd hate to think what would have happened if somebody's liver ruptured.

 

The spleen filters out the blood, it helps to get the dead cells out, but people can live without it, my grandmother had hers out because of a blood problem where she was bruising a lot and lived for years without it.   It is much smaller than the liver.  

[Jobiska]

Host asks Aneesa a question (about Aneesa).  Bananas answers it and talks over every word Aneesa tries to put in.  And Aneesa is no shrinking violet...but she's also not stupid and sees it's not worth it to try to outshout him!

Prince of a fella, I tell you.

[RedheadZombie]

The spleen filters out the blood, it helps to get the dead cells out, but people can live without it, my grandmother had hers out because of a blood problem where she was bruising a lot and lived for years without it.   It is much smaller than the liver.

It also plays a part in the immune system.

[Rebecca]

Bananas needs to disappear.

[XtremeOne1]

Yikes, so Madison is pregnant with Tony's baby? That poor kid. 

[Lantern7]

Just a quick heads-up: there will be back-to-back episodes tonight, with no After Show scheduled.

[OnceSane]

Yikes, so Madison is pregnant with Tony's baby? That poor kid.

I think I said it before, but I'll say it again: Dumbest. Baby. Ever.

[Lantern7]

Bumping up . . . there will be an After Show this evening after The Challenge.

[AngryCarrot86]

Thanks for the heads up, Sonoma! I usually don't record the After Show, but I just caught the preview clip on MTV's site and it looks JUICY and intense! I can't wait to see how that all plays out. I feel bad for all parties involved. I couldn't imagine sitting though such awkwardness.

[mjgchick]

Is Abram on steroids?

[mojoween]

I don't even know what was gong on with that host, like there is a time to be perky questioner and there is a time to read the room. That was the most uncomfortable I have been watching one of these things. Like these are REAL PEOPLE, not characters in a TV show.

[CheetaraThunder]

God this episode of the aftershow made me legit hate Bananas and Vince even more. Johnny has NO room to judge. Still shocked Hannah is still with him.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I don't even know what was gong on with that host, like there is a time to be perky questioner and there is a time to read the room. That was the most uncomfortable I have been watching one of these things. Like these are REAL PEOPLE, not characters in a TV show.

Yes, she made me so uncomfortable. Learn how to read a room! Asking everyone else if they think Cara Maria and Abram belong together? Lady, chill.

 

 

God this episode of the aftershow made me legit hate Bananas and Vince even more. Johnny has NO room to judge.

He puts himself in the middle of everything and when everyone gets mad him, he gets pissed off and doesn't understand why he's getting the blame. Maybe because he's the one who urged his cousin to tell Abram in order to mess up the rookie alliance?

Edited January 7, 2016 by TiffanyNichelle

[Lantern7]

That was a horrifying thirty minutes. Painful to watch the shreds of a relationships get set afire. Cara Maria may make bad decisions, but she's not a parody of a human being like at least half of the Challengers come off as. And I don't think I'd be comfortable being in the same zip code as a cuckolded Abram, let along a studio.

[kat165]

How sad and scary was this?

 

I was impressed with how many times Abe was actually able to get himself under control. I was felt so sorry for him several times during the show. At some points he looked like he was going to cry. I feel badly for Cara too. Yeah, she fucked up, but I agree with you, Lantern, about Cara being not being a parody of a human being. This was very painful to watch. And I dreaded the possibility of seeing this break out into violence.

 

I've been in a similiar relationship & I can understand how maybe Cara is caught in this toxic relationship. It can be very hard to leave when you want to stay but know you shouldn't.

Edited January 7, 2016 by kat165

[AngryCarrot86]

I felt so much second hand embarrassment and horror watching this. First of all, the host can eff off. She's all "why on earth would they walk off stage?!". Then proceeds to ask the cast if they think Cara and Abe should be together. What a crass bitch!! I felt terrible for Abe. It's clear he's in love with CM, and was in so much pain. I also feel bad for CM. While I don't think Abe would ever physically harm her, it would appear there's some major emotional abuse going on. I think CM cares a great deal for Abe, and feels extreme guilt for causing him so much pain; but she needs to leave. Their relationship is a completely co-dependent, toxic, shit storm. I feel dirty for even watching such a spectacle.

[WhosThatGirl]

This was painful. Seriously. All of it. I didn't enjoy watching. Also Gossip Girl John, stop acting like you were being a stand up guy. You weren't. You talk crap on abe all the time. Don't act like this was some sort of loyal thing you had to do. Just..shut up. 

[Rowan]

Are they fucking crazy letting Abram anywhere near Cara and bearded twin guy?

I felt for him hearing what she had to say at the end of the actual challenge episode. Then his sad, little last ditch effort to get her to say something to contradict what he'd just heard.

I felt for her, too, though. She fucked up, but she's not a cruel person. Watching her anxiety build was not entertaining. That shit was uncomfortable. That was not a cheap challenge hook-up imploding, they were an actual couple.

[shelley1234]

While I feel badly for Abram for having to experience all of this on television....I also think that their relationship is completely toxic and it looks like it is clearly emotionally abusive.  Cara Maria cheated on him, however she also seems terrified during the After Show.  I think the most honest thing Cara Maria said was in the little caught moment when she was talking with her cousin.  I am sure Cara Maria loves Abram and vice versa...but good lord, you both just gotta walk away.  

 

I also think less of Abram is an act than it is with other cast members.  He has a switch and we have seen it be flipped a few times over.  I imagine what it is like to live with someone with a switch like that?  

 

Bananas?  STFU.  You know you blew up their spot for your game.  It worked, but don't pretend it was for any other grand, noble reason.  

 

As for Tom.  Hope you don't die.  While I am kidding, I am kinda not.  If any of those interactions with Abram and Tom both on the show and on the After Show were not on camera....I think Tom would have come out of it pretty bloody.  I don't feel much compassion for Tom though since he also knew who Cara Maria's boyfriend was when you decided to play tonsil hockey with her.  

 

One final thought,....how much respect and how he was able to consistently be calmed down by whoever MTV producer that was.  He spoke to him very much like someone would speak to their military commander.  I found it incredibly interesting.

[Jillibean]

Yikes. That was so uncomfortable to watch. Cara Maria's affect throughout was really upsetting--she looked defeated and even a bit scared. As others have said, the host was completely inappropriate. She just forged right ahead with her planned show in spite of the fact that people's lives were falling apart around her. I actually have a lot more respect for Thomas now. He handled this insane situation as well as it could be handled, I think, and was far more respectful to CM than anyone else. Abram handled it better than I would have predicted, but still had a need to aim a few barbs at CM on TV. 

 

Overall, though, I think the burden of inappropriateness is on BMP/MTV. They knew what was in this episode that they were going to have them watch. They should have offered support (beyond armed security). Someone, at whatever level, should whisper in Cara Maria's ear to see if she's serious about leaving, and if so, help her discretely. At the very least, they should have invited Jamie to the Aftershow to be there for her. I think this was really poorly done on their part. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by Jillibean

[choclatechip45]

While I feel badly for Abram for having to experience all of this on television....I also think that their relationship is completely toxic and it looks like it is clearly emotionally abusive. Cara Maria cheated on him, however she also seems terrified during the After Show. I think the most honest thing Cara Maria said was in the little caught moment when she was talking with her cousin. I am sure Cara Maria loves Abram and vice versa...but good lord, you both just gotta walk away.

I also think less of Abram is an act than it is with other cast members. He has a switch and we have seen it be flipped a few times over. I imagine what it is like to live with someone with a switch like that?

Bananas? STFU. You know you blew up their spot for your game. It worked, but don't pretend it was for any other grand, noble reason.

As for Tom. Hope you don't die. While I am kidding, I am kinda not. If any of those interactions with Abram and Tom both on the show and on the After Show were not on camera....I think Tom would have come out of it pretty bloody. I don't feel much compassion for Tom though since he also knew who Cara Maria's boyfriend was when you decided to play tonsil hockey with her.

One final thought,....how much respect and how he was able to consistently be calmed down by whoever MTV producer that was. He spoke to him very much like someone would speak to their military commander. I found it incredibly interesting.

I think it was mentioned in his original Road rules season that he went to military school.

As much of an ass Johnny was he did have one point Thomas and Cara both knew this would come out eventually when the show would air. I do wonder if Thomas is still with his girlfriend based on social media it looks like he is. I did feel bad for Abram for having to watch his girlfriend tell her cousin she wanted to leave him.

[Tatum]

I'm confused about something. I don't really understand the format of the aftershow as this is the first I've watched. During the regular episode of the show, they showed a clip from the Aftershow, and Abe is having a meltdown and saying he wants to sit with Cara Maria, and the producers are saying he can't, until he calms down. He does finally settle down and walks in to CM and CM is extremely uncomfortable and says this is going to be really hard to watch and she feels really awkward, to which Abe amiably replies that it won't be awkward. None of that was on the actual aftershow- did that occur before or after Abe watched the clip where CM tells Jamie she wanted to leave Abram?

 

I know that their relationship is complicated, and CM is not a malicious person, but her treatment of Abe WAS despicable. And I don't just mean cheating and then lying about it. If Abe can be believed, CM told him before she left that she wanted to win money so they could buy a new house. By CM's own admission, she was planning on leaving him once she returned with that money, AND, she fully intended to behave like a single person during her time away because in her mind, the relationship was over, even though she told him the complete opposite. So Abe is walking around Montana telling his friends and family that he and CM are going to look at buying a house together, while CM is cheating on him while being filmed and telling her cousin that she actually plans to leave him and has wanted out of the relationship for awhile- and everyone who watches this show (you know, all 200 of us, and Abe's immediate family probably takes up about 10 of those spots) is going to see it. I just don't know what Abe has done, short of being physically abusive, that could have deserved that kind of humiliation and hurt. I would never forgive an SO for doing that to me.

 

I get it, CM avoids conflict and is a people pleaser. But at some point you have to have unpleasant conversations, because that would have been a lot kinder to Abe than what she did. Unless she was worried about her physical safety, I don't think there's any excuse for how she handled this situation.

[KerleyQ]

Yikes. That was so uncomfortable to watch. Cara Maria's affect throughout was really upsetting--she looked defeated and even a bit scared. As others have said, the host was completely inappropriate. She just forged right ahead with her planned show in spite of the fact that people's lives were falling apart around her. I actually have a lot more respect for Thomas now. He handled this insane situation as well as it could be handled, I think, and was far more respectful to CM than anyone else. Abram handled it better than I would have predicted, but still had a need to aim a few barbs at CM on TV. 

 

Overall, though, I think the burden of inappropriateness is on BMP/MTV. They knew what was in this episode that they were going to have them watch. They should have offered support (beyond armed security). Someone, at whatever level, should whisper in Cara Maria's ear to see if she's serious about leaving, and if so, help her discretely. At the very least, they should have invited Jamie to the Aftershow to be there for her. I think this was really poorly done on their part. 

 

I agree about Thomas.  I noticed that he deferred to her for questions and would nod and back up her answers.  Even having acknowledged that it's far more likely Abe will lay a hand on him than on CM, he was willing to sit back and let her decide how things played out, to some extent.  

 

Oh, God, the host.  What the actual hell, woman?  When she thought it would be a great idea to ask Thomas and CM "if you were both single, would you get together?" (or something to that effect), CM's reaction pretty much said it all.  Yes, she kind of laughed with her "are you trying to get him killed?" but I think it was a laugh that was more disbelief at how surreal it was that you have this clearly angry, raging man wandering the set, one whose rage is entirely based on the Thomas/CM involvement and the fallout, and she decides it would be a great idea to poke the bear and ask Thomas and CM if they would be a couple if only it wasn't for Abe and that pesky girlfriend Thomas has back home?  How did she (or the production people in her ear) envision that question going?  

 

It's hard to buy that the show doesn't want Abe to go all rage-y when they seem to have scripted an entire After Show designed to push every single button he has with regard to his relationship with CM.  They may as well have just gone for it and asked her something like "now, Cara Maria, we hear that Thomas has a much bigger dick than Abe.  Can you confirm?  And, follow-up, do you think he likely wields it better?  Care to find out?  We have a bedroom prepared backstage if you want to give it a go.  And the room has a viewing window, so Abe can watch and see if you seem to enjoy it more than sex with him.  When we get back from the break, we'll have raw footage of Abe watching Cara Maria and Thomas do the deed!"  

[yogi2014L]

Zuri hall...just no. Terrible job. So uncomfortable.

 

I maintain that I think Abe does cocaine. 

 

Cara fucked up and made mistakes but I cringed for her when she was saying on the couch " i have no honor" blah blah blah. Kinda felt like she was getting piled on by John Vince and Abe. And why were John and Vince there again? Go away.

 

Abe and Cara just need to break it off. Unhealthy for both of them and I did not enjoy seeing them so upset and then the stupid host asking totally inappropriate questions. 

[Jenkins]

Well, I am glad to see I am not the only one who felt VERY uncomfortable watching that. There are some people that would have thought that was entertaining...not me, it felt tacky, dirty and unnecessary.

 

100% agree with the person that said that show seemed designed/scripted to get a physical reaction out of Abe. You KNOW they wanted him to lunge across the table at Thomas. The questions were ridiculous.

 

CM looked like a scared, broken puppy to me. And the host just piles on her. What a scumbag...

 

And while I do like Abe, he was being very manipulative with his taunts towards CM. I grew up in an abusive household and the whole "you are a HORRIBLE person, but I still love you" tactic was something I heard way too many times in one form or another.

 

Yes, CM fucked up. That was a REALLY shitty thing to do. But I do think she did it to more or less force her own hand in breaking up. And from what I have read on here, it apparently worked. Someone posted they are no longer together.

 

Some people are GREAT separately, but together they are just toxic as hell. These two are a good example of that.

[RedheadZombie]

I know that their relationship is complicated, and CM is not a malicious person, but her treatment of Abe WAS despicable. And I don't just mean cheating and then lying about it. If Abe can be believed, CM told him before she left that she wanted to win money so they could buy a new house. By CM's own admission, she was planning on leaving him once she returned with that money, AND, she fully intended to behave like a single person during her time away because in her mind, the relationship was over, even though she told him the complete opposite. So Abe is walking around Montana telling his friends and family that he and CM are going to look at buying a house together, while CM is cheating on him while being filmed and telling her cousin that she actually plans to leave him and has wanted out of the relationship for awhile- and everyone who watches this show (you know, all 200 of us, and Abe's immediate family probably takes up about 10 of those spots) is going to see it. I just don't know what Abe has done, short of being physically abusive, that could have deserved that kind of humiliation and hurt. I would never forgive an SO for doing that to me.

 

I get it, CM avoids conflict and is a people pleaser. But at some point you have to have unpleasant conversations, because that would have been a lot kinder to Abe than what she did. Unless she was worried about her physical safety, I don't think there's any excuse for how she handled this situation.

 

Regarding the Cara/Jamie conversation, Cara said they weren't actively filming and she wasn't even mic'd.  They were covertly filming them, so I'm not going to put that particular episode on Cara.  The whole situation was a complete cluster fuck, but I'm not really feeling much compassion for Abe.  Cara's demeanor, both on the actual episode and the after show, was very timid, beaten down, and fearful.  I can't help but feel that Abe is, at the very least, verbally and emotionally abusing her.  If pacifying him with promises is what she needed to do to get "permission" to do the show, I don't blame her.  I'm clearly speculating, but there's a desperation about her that leads me to believe she wants to win the money to get away from him.  Hope she wins now after putting herself through this.

[Amers]

I'm confused about something. I don't really understand the format of the aftershow as this is the first I've watched. During the regular episode of the show, they showed a clip from the Aftershow, and Abe is having a meltdown and saying he wants to sit with Cara Maria, and the producers are saying he can't, until he calms down. He does finally settle down and walks in to CM and CM is extremely uncomfortable and says this is going to be really hard to watch and she feels really awkward, to which Abe amiably replies that it won't be awkward. None of that was on the actual aftershow- did that occur before or after Abe watched the clip where CM tells Jamie she wanted to leave Abram?

I know that their relationship is complicated, and CM is not a malicious person, but her treatment of Abe WAS despicable. And I don't just mean cheating and then lying about it. If Abe can be believed, CM told him before she left that she wanted to win money so they could buy a new house. By CM's own admission, she was planning on leaving him once she returned with that money, AND, she fully intended to behave like a single person during her time away because in her mind, the relationship was over, even though she told him the complete opposite. So Abe is walking around Montana telling his friends and family that he and CM are going to look at buying a house together, while CM is cheating on him while being filmed and telling her cousin that she actually plans to leave him and has wanted out of the relationship for awhile- and everyone who watches this show (you know, all 200 of us, and Abe's immediate family probably takes up about 10 of those spots) is going to see it. I just don't know what Abe has done, short of being physically abusive, that could have deserved that kind of humiliation and hurt. I would never forgive an SO for doing that to me.

I get it, CM avoids conflict and is a people pleaser. But at some point you have to have unpleasant conversations, because that would have been a lot kinder to Abe than what she did. Unless she was worried about her physical safety, I don't think there's any excuse for how she handled this situation.

This is exactly what I was coming here to say. She was a crappy person. She cheated on her boyfriend after leaving him a note saying I love you and letting him believe she's buying a house with him. Then she gets on the show, cheats on him. He shows up and she's making out with him, flat ut lies to his face, then he hears she's going to leave him on national television. I mean, it doesn't get lower than that. I would have lost my cool. I felt bad for him. He looked like he was going to cry more than once. Screw her. I mean, there's no justifying her actions. She's an adult. Use your words and don't lead someone on, then KNOW you are going to cheating on him on tv. It's just so mean.

[Jobiska]

Yes, CM fucked up. That was a REALLY shitty thing to do. But I do think she did it to more or less force her own hand in breaking up. And from what I have read on here, it apparently worked. Someone posted they are no longer together.

 

 

Yeah, I don't condone cheating but whatever she did with Thomas, I think it was something she unconsciously was doing to force herself to be able to escape the relationship.  While I appreciate Abram laughing at Bananas as much as anyone, he does come across as emotionally controlling over CM, talking to her as if he had a right to control her, shaming her, etc.  She's already remorseful about whatever behavior was worth calling "cheating" (didn't catch what she said in the regular show other than back massages--something about sandwiches???).  

I am sorry for Abe's pain too, and for him to have been filmed in the process of learning things--producers were way too manipulative.  I think the host had a tin ear here, but I also think she's as much in the power of the producers as the participants are.  She probably did not have the inner wherewithal to go so far off script.  So I do have some sympathy for her too--they set her up almost as much as they did CM and Abe.

And of all people to have as additional guests here...Bananas was the worst.  Why is he there as narrator of these people's pain?  What an ass.

[le bordel chaud]

I have never liked Cara because I don't think she has a lot of strength or self-respect. Her relationship with Abram is beyond toxic, but it's hard to feel sorry for her because she made her own bed. How she treated him is pretty despicable, but I obviously get the sense that he doesn't treat her well either. It's like a sad vicious cycle that needs to end for both of their sanity.

 

The host was beyond incompetent and just dumb IMO. She made a horrible situation 100 times worse.

[Steph619]

That was probably the most awkward challenge after show I've ever seen. I wonder if Thomas, Abram, and Cara Maria will be going to the reunion because I bet that will be just as awkward, if not more.

Cara Maria messed up big time by cheating on Abram. She should've been upfront with him about what she actually did with Thomas, but I'm assuming she was afraid of what Abram's reaction would be. I always thought that their relationship was good, but if Cara Maria broke down to her cousin and expressed her feelings of wanting to leave him, then things weren't good at all. It seems like a toxic relationship.

I hated Johnny just sitting back and enjoying the show. He isn't responsible for what happened, but he definitely brought it to Abram's attention through his cousin for his own personal gain. I don't buy that he did it because he felt bad for Abram.

[Tatum]

Regarding the Cara/Jamie conversation, Cara said they weren't actively filming and she wasn't even mic'd.  They were covertly filming them, so I'm not going to put that particular episode on Cara.  The whole situation was a complete cluster fuck, but I'm not really feeling much compassion for Abe.  Cara's demeanor, both on the actual episode and the after show, was very timid, beaten down, and fearful.  I can't help but feel that Abe is, at the very least, verbally and emotionally abusing her.  If pacifying him with promises is what she needed to do to get "permission" to do the show, I don't blame her.  I'm clearly speculating, but there's a desperation about her that leads me to believe she wants to win the money to get away from him.  Hope she wins now after putting herself through this.

 

But she still has to go home and actually break up with him and move her stuff out and deal with all those logistics- there was never going to be an easy way to do it and she went and made it 1,000 times worse for both of them. Abe had no idea CM didn't want to be in a relationship with him, so this leads me to believe CM, whether she won the money or not, did not go through with breaking up with Abe once she got home. What did she think was going to happen when this episode aired? The host said they had clips that showed CM and Thomas doing more than backrubs.

 

I also think part of her demeanor during the episode and the aftershow was plain old guilt- I mean, she did a rotten thing.

 

Abe is definitely controlling, I get that. But I don't think he deserved to be treated the way Cara treated him.

[UniqBlue69]

 

Regarding the Cara/Jamie conversation, Cara said they weren't actively filming and she wasn't even mic'd.  They were covertly filming them, so I'm not going to put that particular episode on Cara.

But Cara Maria is no spring chicken when it comes to these shows. This is, like, her 8th challenge, correct? It's common knowledge that these reality shows install night-vision cameras and outfit the headboards with mics to pick up any secret late night hook ups. We've seen plenty of tawdry examples on this very show. I agree with Abe that it was a very calculated move on her part. I think she knew how horrible her cheating behavior would come off as and was attempting to shape the narrative in order to reduce to blow back she would eventually get from the audience.

[Tatum]

But Cara Maria is no spring chicken when it comes to these shows. This is, like, her 8th challenge, correct? It's common knowledge that these reality shows install night-vision cameras and outfit the headboards with mics to pick up any secret late night hook ups. We've seen plenty of tawdry examples on this very show. I agree with Abe that it was a very calculated move on her part. I think she knew how horrible her cheating behavior would come off as and was attempting to shape the narrative in order to reduce to blow back she would eventually get from the audience.

 

I was going to post the same thing! Trishelle pointed out in her original show that they had hidden microphones in the headboards and she honestly had no idea that her and Steven's sexy time was being recorded. That was in 2002.

 

Anybody who goes on these shows should not expect to have privacy at any time. I didn't think about her intentionally doing that scene in order to appear more sympathetic to viewers, but I suppose she could have done that. I think she was legitimately upset and felt badgered and smothered by Abe.

Abe's antics on the last two episodes have mortified ME, and I'm not the one sleeping with him. But I don't think it's fair to lie to someone's face just because you're too chickenshit to face the fallout of your actions.

[KerleyQ]

I really wonder if things would have been so bad if Cara Maria had been upfront with Abe as soon as he arrived (well, as soon as they were alone together after he arrived).  He knows how these shows work.  I think that, if she had said "I know it's stupid, but I flirted with this new guy to get him on my side to beat Johnny, and I let it go a little too far, but it meant nothing," he would have been upset, but I don't think he would have been as scorched earth about it.  I mean, he probably still would have wanted Thomas out of there, but I don't think he would have been quite so crazed.  And a less crazed reaction from him probably would have not ended up with CM and Jamie having that conversation, which is what really hurt Abe the most.  

 

Honestly, you have to wonder how much producers prodded her to keep it secret. I'm sure they wanted to milk the drama of "when will Abe find out?" for a few episodes.  It wouldn't surprise me to find that she had producers in her ear, feeding her anxiety about how he'd react and saying stuff like "maybe you shouldn't tell him while Thomas is still around, because he might go after him."  

[Jillibean]

 

But Cara Maria is no spring chicken when it comes to these shows. This is, like, her 8th challenge, correct? It's common knowledge that these reality shows install night-vision cameras and outfit the headboards with mics to pick up any secret late night hook ups. We've seen plenty of tawdry examples on this very show. I agree with Abe that it was a very calculated move on her part. I think she knew how horrible her cheating behavior would come off as and was attempting to shape the narrative in order to reduce to blow back she would eventually get from the audience.

 

I agree that there should be no expectation of privacy, but I feel for her because she was emotionally overwhelmed and confused and she confided in her cousin, looking for support and guidance. And she clearly didn't think she was being taped. I also noticed that in the Nany/Johnny confrontation episode, Johnny didn't seem to think he was being taped when he spoke to Nany about Hannah. It was just not the kind of conversation Johnny has when he thinks it's being filmed, and he especially wouldn't have said that if he thought Hannah might eventually see it! And sure enough, when the actual cameras came, he ran. I think something different must have been done this time around that two challenge veterans, at different points, clearly believed themselves to be off-camera when they weren't.

 

Although I obviously think Cara Maria made major mistakes in cheating and then again in not coming clean, there's too much I don't know about the situation to pass judgment on her for lying. I don't know what Abram's reactions have been to their break-ups in the past, or what possible manipulations (even unintentionally) he might  have used to rope her back in, or really any of their actual relationship history. I've seen too many unhealthy relationships to think it's as simple as being upfront with someone and then walking away, and Abram is a particular wildcard because, let's face it--there's something up with him. He has some sort of psychopathology going on. It's even possible that it plays into Cara Maria's guilt in that she loves him and doesn't want to leave him, knowing that he has his own struggles--but his behavior is erratic at the very least, and we've seen him go through some high highs and some low lows over the course of his challenge history. It's really difficult to live with someone like that, even if you love them deeply.