S02.E05: Crossfire

[Primetimer]

The Cadmus boss shares a surprising range of knowledge, from alien weaponry to underground video production to…parenting?

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[Coop33]

So James is the Laurel Lance of Supergirl? Passed over for love interest, so he gets a mask. I'm not really feeling it.

Liked Lena and Winn together. I hope we see more of that. Definitely called Cadmus lady being Lena's mom the second she showed up. It will be interesting to see where Lena lands in all of this. 

Still not sure about Mon-El. I liked his scenes with Kara, but I don't see much romantic chemistry there yet, and I'm assuming that's where they are going. 

Count me in as shipping Maggie/Alex. I do think it's moving a little fast (maybe keep Maggie in a relationship a little longer?), but Chyler Leigh is killing it. Her last scene in particular was fantastic. 

[Jediknight]

12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I like Winn and I love Winn getting to do another suit but why would Winn be good at making a superpowered suit?  When did that fall in his wheel house?   Again, I'm trying to just go with it because his and Jimmy's scenes worked (if you ignored how self centered it comes off from Jimmy)

He did make the add ons for Superman and Supergirl for battling Metallo.  Also before this episode, the only person on this show that was shown to be around the same intelligence level as Winn, was Maxwell Lord.  Winn likes to tinker, and James knows that, he also knows how intelligent Winn is, Winn is somebody he can go to with those problems, so it makes sense he'd ask Winn to make him a suit.

Please let Lena be a good Luthor, she works so well with Kara and Winn.  Also it looks like she may join Winn and Maxwell Lord as the smartest people on the show.  Imaging the devices she and Winn could come up with to help Kara.  Please don't let her be evil.

[Unclejosh]

One of my biggest pet peeves is when they depower superheroes or make their powers inconsistent for plot purposes or to introduce false conflict or risk.  Ugh.

This show which has a lot of great things to it, has been guilty of this at times in the past but especially the past few weeks it has gotten unbearable.  No matter what guns these guys had Supergirl should have had ZERO difficulty in defeating them in seconds.  And I love how all of a sudden just because some dude gets a ray gun he is able to hit a speeding flying Superhero out of the air like she is a non moving target.  Multiple people who don't have super speed have been able to all of a sudden grab Supergirl by the foot or cape when she flies away which is total crap.

The name is SUPERgirl not slightly stronger than everybody else in the universe girl.  Superman/girl is capable of moving faster than the literal blink of an eye yet somehow these villains (and HUMANS NO LESS) have the same reflexes speed wise.  

I know I may be coming off as the typical "comic nerd" but I am not even big on the comics, I just hate inconsistency related to powers for the sole purpose of fake drama.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Unclejosh

[Cthulhudrew]

I like Mon-El, but only because the actor seems to have some genuine charisma and is doing a lot with the horrible material they've given him so far. I would really like to see what he can do if the writers actually write a three-dimensional character, rather than this caricature.

(Of course, I've had the same issues with Mehcad Brooks' Jimmy Olsen. Good actor, horrible writing. He did the best he could with this new twist, but even so, the writers manage to make Jimmy Olsen rather unlikeable as a character.) Winn has improved as a character since last season, at least.

I agree with other posters who thought that first scene with Alex and Maggie was awkward to say the least, and that they really dialed up what to this point had been a nice, slow development to Alex' character. I think Chyler Leigh is knocking it out of the park, though, and the last couple of scenes with her in this episode- her and Kara, her and Maggie- took it back down to more "realistic" levels of a woman coming to terms with things she'd never really considered before.

Yes- Lena not mentioning to Supergirl she was using her as bait was either shady or typical dumb writers not having characters speak to one another in order to surprise the audience. I'm going to lean towards deliberately shady and give them the benefit of the doubt. It's looking like her mother (and possibly Lena?) are just going to end up the same villain prototype as Max Lord- rich, access to lots of scientific resources, and with a chip on their shoulder in regards to "aliens." Come to think of it, that's also Lex Luthor, isn't it? Hm.

The season overall is still improved from last season, but it's a work in progress.

[KirkB]

10 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

I know I may be coming off as the typical "comic nerd" but I am not even big on the comics, I just hate inconsistency related to powers for the sole purpose of fake drama.

I mostly agree with you. But the thing is Kara is in an even worse position than Barry Allen on the Flash. If either of them were ever portrayed as using their powers to the full extent they could and should, most episodes would only be about fifteen seconds long. They see a potential problem and stop it before it becomes one. Period. End of show. Unless Kara is facing another Kryptonian or a White Martian or something else on her level, it should never really be an issue. But I don't see it as fake drama, so much as a kind of necessary limitation. Otherwise Kara would have seen the guys with their fancy ray guns, changed clothes, taken their guns away, dropped the guys off at the police precinct and the guns at the DEO before heading to Catco in the opening scene.

Edited November 8, 2016 by KirkB

[Cassandre]

I will not buy that Alex is gay. She had such a great chemistry with Maxwell during the whole freaking season one. I liked the tension between them and that in the same time nothing ever happened. That was done so naturally.  And now she's supposed to be gay ? Bisexual but not gay. I like her and Maggie together as a team, but they clearly are rushing this into a relationship.  I bet the next step is having them making out. And I don't like the fact that Alex is all about Maggie now.  Alex was so more than that, please! I miss Alex et J'onn so much same as Kara and her. Too bad Lena had to interrupt them. I know Kara/Lena is not for real and that Kara is never going to be involve in a gay relationship as the main character, but this could have been more interesting than forced Maggie and Alex relashionship.  

And LOL about Alex's life being perfect except for the dating part... are they kidding me ? If it wasn't for J'onn she wouldn't be the woman she is today. The girl could have turned pretty bad. What is wrong with them forgetting about the whole season one ? Just like Kara used to be all about James and in 2 minutes in the first episode of season 2 she dumped him lol. Which is good for everyone but I'm just talking about consistency whether you like him or not.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Cassandre

[Unclejosh]

Then the writers need to come up with better scenarios.  I have no problem with a bad guy who is shown to have a similar power set to a superhero being a challenge.  But it absolutely is fake drama.  There is no need for it in my opinion.  I hate it in the comics, cartoons, books and any medium where the writers can't figure out a way to make a story interesting so they just depower superheroes for a plot point.  It has always bugged me even as a little kid.  

But I am one of the people who doesn't need their heroes in entertainment to have to struggle or overcome a challenge to enjoy the story.  I personally don't get bored of heroes just being overwhelming powerful who just stop bad guys as a routine matter of fact.  I know I am in the minority on this.   But if there must be a challenge, at least find a way to have it be believable within the power set and world that was created.  It is only when it is blatantly obvious the only reason something happens is because the writers deem it so because they are unable to come up with anything better or more "realistic" that it bugs me.

Like some people have brought up that Supergirl just flies into her apartment at all hours of the day and no one seems to notice.  I don't care about that even though it is unrealistic in the real world, you could argue she is just moving so fast "in world" that no one can see but they are showing it to us slowed down so we can see it on the show.

Having a human with a ray gun not be able to be stopped by even another regular human with a regular gun doesn't make sense let alone one of the 2 supposed most powerful beings in the world having an issue is just glaring to me.

[Sakura12]

I didn't really seen anything on Alex's end with Maxwell. He seemed into her while she was using that for her job. So I buy that she wasn't really interested in dating or being intimate with him.  

[Izeinwinter]

... Lena wasn't using supergirl as bait. She was using herself and the collected one percenters of the city for that. That fundraiser being attacked wasn't because Supergirl would be there, it was attacked because Lena arranged a juicy target. She even told supergirl she was expecting an attack, so she was using Kara as muscle.  With her consent. 

.. I am however, getting the distinct impression Lena Luthor never does anything that doesn't serve at least 3 purposes. She threw a party with herself as bait.

The same party is then an excellent opportunity to impress a cute girl. Because stopping a crime rampage is obviously the way to Kara's heart, right? That's the sort of thing superheroes go for? So it's a trap and a date!

That's not enough. Noo. It's also an excellent opportunity to troll Kara over her double identity, because much as she want's to hit that, she's not going to take being lied to lying down, so she invites Kara on the date.. Twice. In both her identities. 

Also, during this day, she scoped out her residence, and her place of work, and at some point, somehow figured out one of Kara's favorite foods and put it on the darn menu. You don't seriously think it was accidental a fancy fundraiser serves pot-stickers? 

[kdm07]

1 hour ago, Izeinwinter said:

... Lena wasn't using supergirl as bait. She was using herself and the collected one percenters of the city for that. That fundraiser being attacked wasn't because Supergirl would be there, it was attacked because Lena arranged a juicy target. She even told supergirl she was expecting an attack, so she was using Kara as muscle.  With her consent. 

.. I am however, getting the distinct impression Lena Luthor never does anything that doesn't serve at least 3 purposes. She threw a party with herself as bait.

The same party is then an excellent opportunity to impress a cute girl. Because stopping a crime rampage is obviously the way to Kara's heart, right? That's the sort of thing superheroes go for? So it's a trap and a date!

That's not enough. Noo. It's also an excellent opportunity to troll Kara over her double identity, because much as she want's to hit that, she's not going to take being lied to lying down, so she invites Kara on the date.. Twice. In both her identities. 

Also, during this day, she scoped out her residence, and her place of work, and at some point, somehow figured out one of Kara's favorite foods and put it on the darn menu. You don't seriously think it was accidental a fancy fundraiser serves pot-stickers? 

She also met the family already...the look on her face before she found out that Alex was Kara's sister was interesting. I don't know if they're purposely playing up the "Lena has a crush" thing but it's amusing to watch.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Since I'm straight, I suppose I have no standing on whether how Alex admitted but couldn't say that maybe she's a lesbian after all. My issue was the all of a sudden TMI dump she gave to Maggie after such a short acquaintance. Telling her how she's never been able to be intimate with men, and stumbling over her issues. Unless show is telling me theirs will be a twu wuv story and Maggie is the love of Alex's life and it was SO EASY to reveal all this to her. And Maggie's expression conveyed to me : Hurry up and spit it out, already!

It seems that the only reason Alex went to the bar was to "confess" to Maggie and then just leave-contrary to what she told Maggie-that she came there to cheer her up or make her feel better or whatever she said. 

It doesn't help that I keep expecting to hear Joanna Cassidy's voice whenever Maggie opens her mouth. Can't help it. Cassidy was so awesome as Maggie in S:TAS. 

I just kept ????when Jimmy whined about not having super powers. Jeebus Cripes.

Lena reminded me of a vampire in her last scene and I fully expected to hear her say "Mother" instead of the less formal "Mom."

When Lena told Kara/Supergirl that she wanted her at the party as muscle, I found myself yelling "She's not your employee or someone for hire to act as your muscle!"

I really think someone on staff used to watch all of the DCAU-because that particular scene reminded me of "Torch Song" from the last season of B:TAS, where some rock star tried to hire Bats to be her personal bodyguard after an attempt on her life. Not exactly the same here, but the dialogue was similar enough for me.

I want to see Kara kick ass, instead of having her ass delivered to her, and being saved instead of doing the saving, dammit!?

[stealinghome]

1 hour ago, Cassandre said:

And LOL about Alex's life being perfect except for the dating part... are they kidding me ? If it wasn't for J'onn she wouldn't be the woman she is today. The girl could have turned pretty bad. What is wrong with them forgetting about the whole season one ? 

Don't you think Alex's party girl days were a clear acting out against the expectation that she be perfect all the time, though?

I don't think what was said in this episode invalidated what we saw last season. Alex didn't say her life was perfect, she said her life was about TRYING to be perfect, which is a big difference. And imo it very much tracks with what we've seen from Alex as a character over a season-plus now. It seemed clear to me last season that earlier in life she was drowning in (Eliza's) expectations for her, which led her to some self-destructive behaviors. J'onn managed to channel that, but even today Alex puts a ton of pressure on herself to be perfect--the perfect older sister to Kara, the perfect DEO agent, etc etc. She's not idealizing her life. She's talking about how hard it is.

Quote

It seems that the only reason Alex went to the bar was to "confess" to Maggie and then just leave-contrary to what she told Maggie-that she came there to cheer her up or make her feel better or whatever she said. 

Oh yeah. I thought it was very obvious that Alex really needed to bare her soul in that moment. Not that she didn't want to check on Maggie, but Alex was definitely there to start talking through some of what's in her head.

I rewatched that scene this morning--what a great performance by Chyler Leigh.

Edited November 8, 2016 by stealinghome

[Sakura12]

Alex looked like she was going to talk to Kara about but Kara was too busy talking about her issues with Mon-El and Alex gave her a pep talk. Then when it was her to turn to speak, Lena showed up. I also saw Alex coming out to Maggie as her needing to tell someone that would understand and listen. 

[xaxat]

Does this show have two sets of writers? The stories featuring women are consistently strong. Outside of J'onn, the ones featuring men are weak. (Although I do like Winn better this season.)

For a splitsecond I thought GLaDOS was going to make an appearance. 

Does Miss Tessmacher exist in the DCU outside of Reeve's Superman movie?

[HunterHunted]

14 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It frustrates me because as a photo journalist in a city constantly targeted by other worldly issues, James Olsen had the potential to be a dynamic figure all on his own and that's when I enjoyed him most, when he was out there in the middle of the action, but not trying to save the day, but to do what he was supposed to have loved doing, getting the perfect shot, or helping some of the bystanders in the process.  

I hate that now it's like he was only a photographer by default rather than because he was passionate about it. It's a let down for the character.  

I was really disappointed by Jimmy's turn. Journalists are heroes. They go out in the world and try to capture the truth of what is happening around us. If Cadmus arming criminals with alien weapons snd weaponizing aliens, the pictures Jimmy takes and the copy his write about Supergirl and Lena Luthor defeating these people has the potential to change hearts and minds. On a less super powered front, going to war torn places and seeing marginalized people, telling their stories is heroic. People seeing the truth of how marginalized embattled people live and coming to change that is transformational. And that's something that Supergirl can't do. She can capture dictators and warlords, but she can't bring a community together to improve their own lives. There is power in what journalists do and I'm a little bit disappointed that the show couldn't at least pay some lip service to that idea. Winn's initial rebuke hinted at it.

Even if James is going to be a hero/vigilante, I would have much rather have had it grow out of his disatisfaction with being in a management role and away from his work as an active photojournalist. In addition, his dad's camera being broken, his relationship with Kara scuttled, he's been excised from DEO/team Supergirl activities, seeing Kara injured, and not even really being a photo journalist, could have been expressed by Jimmy as this growing disatisfaction and feeling of impotence. He's not fulfilled personally or professionally and that's what pushes him to be a vigilante. It's tactile. He punched a mugger. He hit a bad guy. He stopped a bank robbery. There is physical proof of what he has accomplished.

[iMonrey]

Quote

So, let's get this straight.  Mon-el was a palace guard who protected the Crown Prince of Daxum.  He's now super-strong, super-tough and trained to do close-protection guarding among the wealthy elite.  So, yeah, make him an intern at Catco.  Gibbs from NCIS needs to cross networks and give Kara a smack to the back of the head.  I mean, Jesus, let Mon-el be Lena's muscle/bodyguard.  How hard of a leap is that to make?

For that matter, why can't he just work for the DEO? Alex has a "cover" as an FBI agent, so Mon-el could too. Surely that's where he'd be the most valuable, and I don't really see the point of him getting a run-of-the mill human job as some sort of cover. The only reason Kara got a job at Catco was because she wasn't planning on becoming a Superhero. 

That last scene between Kara and Mon-el at the DEO, where a strand of her hair kept falling down the front of her face, bugged the crap out of me. It just made me want to reach into the screen and tuck it behind her ear. 

[KirkB]

While I am not really too interested in Mon-El as a character (I'd rather the focus be on the existing cast) I find it odd that Kara decided what he was going to do rather than, you know, asking him what he wanted. Granted the answer would probably be "go out and whup bad guys" but it seemed odd to me no one was curious about Mon-El's opinion.

[secnarf]

9 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Chyler Leigh killed it in that "uh... there may be some truth to what you said.... about me... " scene.

I loved this scene. I like pretty much any scene with Chyler Leigh, but there are no words to describe how I felt about this scene.

However, I'm just as interested in the Kara/Lena relationship as I am with Alex/Maggie. If Maggie and Lena were male, there would be no issue in having both of these pairings. It seems/feels like we can only have one, though I would love to be wrong about that.

I see nothing between Kara and Mon-El, and he continues to bug me.

I missed J'onn/Hank in this episode.

Not even going to get started on the ridiculousness of James' storyline. Although I thought Mehcad Brooks did well with it,I'm really not at all interested in him being the Guardian, nor do I think it is plausible.

[miracole]

I watched about  half of this episode, realized Hank wasn't going to show up and turned it off.

Mechad is a really good actor so what the writers keep doing to him is garbage.

I like the actor that plays Mon-El and even like how he's portraying what they're giving him but they can do better. There is no way he should be "hiding out" at Catco.

Lena seems like a close talker.

Alex and Maggie, just no. So annoyed by how Dawson's Creek Alex is acting.

[sjohnson]

  Quote

So, let's get this straight.  Mon-el was a palace guard who protected the Crown Prince of Daxum.  He's now super-strong, super-tough and trained to do close-protection guarding among the wealthy elite.  So, yeah, make him an intern at Catco.  Gibbs from NCIS needs to cross networks and give Kara a smack to the back of the head.  I mean, Jesus, let Mon-el be Lena's muscle/bodyguard.  How hard of a leap is that to make?

For that matter, why can't he just work for the DEO? Alex has a "cover" as an FBI agent, so Mon-el could too. Surely that's where he'd be the most valuable, and I don't really see the point of him getting a run-of-the mill human job as some sort of cover. The only reason Kara got a job at Catco was because she wasn't planning on becoming a Superhero. 

That last scene between Kara and Mon-el at the DEO, where a strand of her hair kept falling down the front of her face, bugged the crap out of me. It just made me want to reach into the screen and tuck it behind her ear. 

Not familiar with the comics (Mon-el who?) But this dude was the crown prince, not the guard.

[secnarf]

5 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

Not familiar with the comics (Mon-el who?) But this dude was the crown prince, not the guard.

Not familiar with the comics either, but the Mon-El on this show has claimed that he was a guard for the prince on Daxam. There has been a lot of speculation that he is lying, but nothing confirmed that you can say for sure that this guy is the prince.

[sjohnson]

^^^Oh, yes, you're absolutely right he's said that to the others. But a remark by Kara to the effect it's like he didn't even know what "work" is I thought was an anvil. 

[DigitalCount]

So Lillian wants to make the world safer for her son and her daughter? Meaning Lex and Lena? I see what you did there

[stealinghome]

22 hours ago, regularlyleaded said:

So...Kara was in this episode. In several scenes. I like her scenes with Mon-El. Kara was so excited about him joining her at CatCo., which I found very amusing. But of course, that did not go as she hoped/planned, hence her lesson learned that mentoring is about helping people discover the best version of themselves not turning them into versions of you. And yet, how is this about Kara learning to be Kara? That is to say, I get that wanting to be a mentor to someone is an aspect of Kara, but....and? So? Therefore? I’m genuinely baffled by the writers handling of Kara’s story lines right now. I keep wanting and expecting more depth, and yet, I can’t seem to find it. I’m not irked by this right now, per se, but more genuinely confused. I get that Kara’s helping Mon-El. I get that Kara’s learning how to be a reporter. But I think I’m missing an overarching theme that has emotional resonance. I’m still giving the writers time to work this out (it’s still early in the season), but strangely, Kara’s story arc this season so far feels like, well, almost like an after thought. Which shouldn’t be. She’s the titular character. And as much as I love Alex and J’onn, Kara is why I watch the show, so I want more for her. I need for Kara’s story to be more than just a lesson of the day being checked off a list.

I agree with you, and I think the show is really having a hard time with the loss of Calista Flockhart in this regard. This season is supposed to be about Kara Danvers, but the writers are so clearly struggling to find something to propel Kara forward (which Cat was able to do on the regular last season). The journalist job should be the thing (or, well, some job that isn't being Cat's assistant), but they either aren't interested in it or aren't confident in their ability to write it and make it interesting/meaningful. They're trying to use Mon-El to push Kara, but they're not pulling it off--the plots are so sophomoric they're laughable instead of interesting or character-building (taking Mon-El to Catco might be the stupidest thing this show has ever done and there's been a LOT of stupid on this show), there's a disconnect between Kara the mentor and Kara the larger person, and the after-school-type lessons are silly, I agree. It also doesn't help that they're also trying to set Mon-El up as a love interest, so some of the wires are getting crossed on what Kara is supposed to be gleaning from each episode.

It further doesn't help that Mon-El has cut significantly into Kara's time with Alex and J'onn, who are easily her best screen partners and the characters that "push" her the best. Cast bloat is bad, showrunners! Avoid it!

imo part of the problem with the Mon-El stuff is that it is falling in this in-between place where it isn't developing either her or him. Like, Maggie as a character works for me right now because she's there to catalyze Alex's growth. Obviously that's not viable long-term and they'll need to start making Maggie a character in her own right at some point, but for right now, I'm okay with Maggie being a bit of a cypher because it's SO GOOD for Alex. But the writers are trying to both grow Mon-El on his own AND use him to propel Kara, and it's not really working. Kara is stagnant and Mon-El is just coming off like every stereotype of the frat boy prince. No depth.

[Trini]

Oh, man. Is this how it's going to be now -- one regular missing every (other?) episode?

[BkWurm1]

10 hours ago, KirkB said:

While I am not really too interested in Mon-El as a character (I'd rather the focus be on the existing cast) I find it odd that Kara decided what he was going to do rather than, you know, asking him what he wanted. Granted the answer would probably be "go out and whup bad guys" but it seemed odd to me no one was curious about Mon-El's opinion.

I thought the whole purpose of bringing him to Catco was for him to shadow her so she could do her job AND keep an eye on him but then she dumped him off in the office on his own and I was like WTH????  Made no sense.  

9 hours ago, secnarf said:

Not even going to get started on the ridiculousness of James' storyline. Although I thought Mehcad Brooks did well with it,I'm really not at all interested in him being the Guardian, nor do I think it is plausible.

I agree that Mehcad Brooks did as well as one could hope with his storyline.  That gives me a tiny bit of hope since I've also watched versions of this (including the baseball bat) where not only is the storyline terrible but the acting awful.  

Quote

However, I'm just as interested in the Kara/Lena relationship as I am with Alex/Maggie. If Maggie and Lena were male, there would be no issue in having both of these pairings. It seems/feels like we can only have one, though I would love to be wrong about that.

Interestingly, I don't think i would be open to a Kara/Leon pairing.  Somehow what IMO works with Lena and Kara wouldn't for me if Lena was a guy.  I believe that Lena wants to be Kara's friend and that's a gateway to anything else.  But why would a guy in her same position be interested in Kara?  I wouldn't believe a friendship at all and I'm not going to buy he's bowled over by her looks or personality, not in the settings that we'd seen.  

[DigitalCount]

I absolutely know this is a double standard, and I apologize. The biggest problem for me would be AU!Leon coming to Kara's apartment and workplace when he could have just picked up the phone. That's a little creepy.

At the same time, that's why I'm not willing to place Kara/Lena firmly in the "friends" category; specifically, that moment where she bites her lip while inviting Kara to the gala was a bit too self-consciously lustful to be totally about making a new friend.

[KirkB]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who sees Lena as flirting, at least on some level, with Kara this whole time. Even though Kara doesn't seem to notice and I'm pretty sure she isn't flirting back. And that would seem to mostly be coming from Katie McGrath. If that is true, then the question becomes is it something she is doing on her own (with the show runners either not being aware or allowing it) or is it a mandate? That is, is she being allowed to do it or being told to?

Edited November 9, 2016 by KirkB

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 11/7/2016 at 10:10 PM, BkWurm1 said:

I'm really only familiar with Smalliville Lillian Luthor but this is why part of me is waiting for confirmation that she's Lena's adoptive mother rather than a birth mother.  

Lena has said she was adopted by the Luthors, and "Lillian" told the bad guys she was doing this to keep her daughter and her son safe, so she is Lena's adoptive mother.  I guess Mom blames Superman, and, by extension, all aliens for Lex's legal problems.

On 11/7/2016 at 10:03 PM, BkWurm1 said:

A pretty good episode even though once again Kara for some reason can't just blur in and take the weapons right out of the bad guy's hands before they even see her.  I'm ok with the weapons being super powerful but not that she can't get to the guys before they use them.  

True, but I also don't understand why she would take on the dangerously armed criminals in the middle of the party.  Wait until they left with the loot and were not in the middle of a hundred people who by all rights should have experienced a great deal of collateral damage.

On 11/7/2016 at 10:45 PM, johntfs said:

Mon-el was a palace guard who protected the Crown Prince of Daxum.

This guy never worked a day in his life.  As others have said, he was the Prince.

On 11/7/2016 at 10:51 PM, AD35 said:

Was anyone reminded of the Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex essay with the scene with Mon-El and Miss Tessmacher in the closet?

Was pretty worried about that.  After all, Kara had to give him a haircut using her heat vision because his hair is superstrong.

On 11/8/2016 at 2:52 AM, Xenith22 said:

Also worth mentioning why bother wearing ski masks when you are just going to take them off in public for no reason at all?  Ugh.)

Yup.

Edited November 10, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Trini]

56 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Lena has said she was adopted by the Luthors, and "Lillian" told the bad guys she was doing this to keep her daughter and her son safe, so she is Lena's adoptive mother.  I guess mom blames Superman, and, by extension, all aliens for Lex's legal problems.

How much do we know about Cadmus? It's a government division/offshoot, right? It seems highly suspect that a Luthor is in charge of it. And that the DEO doesn't know more about it.

[Starfish35]

Finally got around to watching this.  I think I enjoyed it more than a lot of people here did. 

I definitely see all the problems that others have pointed out, particularly Kara dropping Mon-El into that situation without doing sufficient training for him.   But it mostly didn't bother me that much, except from the viewpoint that I would prefer they have had Kara be smarter than that.  

Mon-El is sooooo the prince.  Never worked a day in his life, totally used to having women seek to please him and being waited on hand and foot.  I get the feeling his missteps are coming more from a place of clueless privilege than any sort of maliciousness.  (I laughed at his comment about "are you sure? Because I've been watching this TV show about doctors...".)   I'm just not sure why he's hiding who he is.

I am not totally comfortable with the whole "mentor" thing, if they're planning on putting them together.  I wasn't opposed to it up until this episode, and I'm not saying they suddenly became a NOTP or anything, but the episode did make me rather less comfortable with the idea than I had been.

I actually didn't mind the James arc.  I understand the complaints others have about it, but I think, for now, it's working for me.  We'll see how it goes.  It helps that I actually do think Mehcad Brooks is a good actor when given something to do, and I think his motivation and prior training (he mentioned being a black belt) worked better for me than when they tried to do a similar storyline with Laurel over on Arrow.   There were some seeds of James being restless in what he was doing last season, and while I'm not sure they were headed this direction before the network switch, it works for me.  Your mileage may vary.  

They're moving Alex and Maggie a whole lot faster than I thought they would, but Chyler Leigh is playing it very well.  I enjoyed having a sister scene again though.  Melissa and Chyler play off each other so well.  "Yeah, your punk-rock phase was very strange."

[Dobian]

They should have named this episode Super Lesbian Girl.  I thought they were just going to have Alex get together with the cop this season, but Lena was sending out the vibes to both Kara and Supergirl.

Jimmy as crime fighter just does not work for me at all.  Hello, you are running a major media empire, wouldn't you be so busy day and night that you wouldn't have time to run around fighting bad guys?

[MarkHB]

13 hours ago, Trini said:

How much do we know about Cadmus? It's a government division/offshoot, right? It seems highly suspect that a Luthor is in charge of it. And that the DEO doesn't know more about it.

I don't know that we even know for sure that it's a government operation in this reality. Was that mentioned last season?

I don't think that they're rushing the Sanders story,  seeing that they want to tell a full story in the time they have and that romance of any type probably doesn't warrant being higher than a C-plot on this show IMO. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm just not sure why he's hiding who he is.

Perhaps Mon-El feels guilty that instead of staying behind to die with his people (as the Prince in the story he told the D.E.O. did), he survived.  However, he had that story prepared before he even knew that no one else had survived.  Perhaps his parents had planned for the potential fallout from Krypton's destruction and had sent him into space in a parallel to Supergirl and Superman's story.

[The Crazed Spruce]

1 hour ago, MarkHB said:

I don't know that we even know for sure that it's a government operation in this reality. Was that mentioned last season?

From what I recall, in the comics Cadmus was a private company, albeit one that flew under the radar. I'm pretty sure the government link was introduced in the Justice League cartoon.

(BTW, any further talk of other versions of the Cadmus Project outside of the show should probably be moved to the "Keeping Up With The Kryptonians" thread.)

[johntfs]

17 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

This guy never worked a day in his life.  As others have said, he was the Prince.

Others (and you) are wrong.  We saw Mon-el's backstory.  Mon-el was the Prince's bodyguard.  On the day of the disaster, the Prince was injured and chose to stay behind and die with his people while sending Mon-el to safety in the Kryptonion ship.

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Others (and you) are wrong.  We saw Mon-el's backstory.  Mon-el was the Prince's bodyguard.  On the day of the disaster, the Prince was injured and chose to stay behind and die with his people while sending Mon-el to safety in the Kryptonion ship.

No, we saw what Mon-El told everyone.  We have no assurance that he's telling the truth (just like "Jay" told everyone about Zoom taking his speed last season on The Flash).

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 minute ago, johntfs said:

17 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

This guy never worked a day in his life.  As others have said, he was the Prince.

Others (and you) are wrong.  We saw Mon-el's backstory.  Mon-el was the Prince's bodyguard.  On the day of the disaster, the Prince was injured and chose to stay behind and die with his people while sending Mon-el to safety in the Kryptonion ship.

As has been said before, some of us don't believe that backstory, which Mon-El was relating, not an omniscient narrator.   We think he swapped the bodyguard and Prince characters.  Time will tell.

[johntfs]

Just now, ItCouldBeWorse said:

As has been said before, some of us don't believe that backstory, which Mon-El was relating, not an omniscient narrator.   We think he swapped the bodyguard and Prince characters.  Time will tell.

By that logic maybe Kara and Kal-el are lying aliens bent on world domination since we only know what they've told us about their own backstories.

Unless we learn something new that gives us a concrete reason to doubt his story, I'm inclined to assume that Mon-el is telling the truth.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

9 minutes ago, johntfs said:

14 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

As has been said before, some of us don't believe that backstory, which Mon-El was relating, not an omniscient narrator.   We think he swapped the bodyguard and Prince characters.  Time will tell.

By that logic maybe Kara and Kal-el are lying aliens bent on world domination since we only know what they've told us about their own backstories.

Unless we learn something new that gives us a concrete reason to doubt his story, I'm inclined to assume that Mon-el is telling the truth.

Sure, but:

1) I think we can rely on the fact that this is not the show that's going to turn Supergirl and Superman into villains who've been playing the long con and 

2) I think that the writers have been leaving clues that Mon-El is not who he's claimed he is, for instance, saying he's never worked before when I would presume that a palace guard actually does do work.

I've been wrong before, but I've also read a lot of fiction and watched a lot of TV! 

Edited November 10, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Starfish35]

Also, when he gives Kara the hint about Draaga last episode, he says he was on Warworld, and then quickly adds that he was guarding the Royal Family (uh huh right).  And for a royal bodyguard, his fighting skills in this episode were sadly lacking.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

Also, when he gives Kara the hint about Draaga last episode, he says he was on Warworld, and then quickly adds that he was guarding the Royal Family (uh huh right).  And for a royal bodyguard, his fighting skills in this episode were sadly lacking.

Yes, the writers are dropping multiple clues.

[JustaPerson]

Although I would say that the Kryptonians (and Daxmanites I guess) get their powers from the Earth's yellow sun and Mon-El's powers are brand new. I definitely think him being the prince is highly likely though. The writers aren't particularly subtle.

Edited November 10, 2016 by JustaPerson

[TwistedandBored]

I have nothing to say about this episode except to say Mehcad Brooks is really a good actor. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

11 hours ago, Dobian said:

Jimmy as crime fighter just does not work for me at all.  Hello, you are running a major media empire, wouldn't you be so busy day and night that you wouldn't have time to run around fighting bad guys?

There is precedent -- like the mayor of Star City.

[Last Time Lord]

Mon-El as a Catco Intern is a bit trying to run before you can walk, isn't it, Kara?

Also, would a guide to the city pamphlet really advertise a strip club?

[johntfs]

14 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Sure, but:

1) I think we can rely on the fact that this is not the show that's going to turn Supergirl and Superman into villains who've been playing the long con and 

2) I think that the writers have been leaving clues that Mon-El is not who he's claimed he is, for instance, saying he's never worked before when I would presume that a palace guard actually does do work.

I've been wrong before, but I've also read a lot of fiction and watched a lot of TV! 

Assuming that Prince/bodyguard is a binary question (he's one or the other) let's take a look at possible statements and consequences.

1) "I am the crown prince of Daxum" - True  At best he gets treated like royalty.  At worst he gets treated, well, like he's already eing treated.  There's been no indication he has any real enemies.  Daxum was destroyed in the same disaster the destroyed Krypton.

2) "I am the crown prince of Daxum" - False ("I'm actually the bodyguard") It's not like he'd expect anyone on Earth to be able to call his bluff so he could expect the same treatment as the True statement.  Really this would have been what I would have expected, that Mon-el pretended to be the Prince only to confess later.

3) "I was the Prince's bodyguard." - True I see no advantage to Mon-el to say this.  He's essentially admitting "I had one job, to keep the Prince safe and live and I fucked that up.  He's dead along with the rest of my people."  Since Mon-el is apparently saved by the wounded Prince's unselfish, it fits the relative lack of guilt he shows about the death of his charge.

4) "Was the Prince's bodyguard." - False (as, I'm really the Prince") I see no reason for this to be the case aside from some weird psychological guilt thing or some "just because it's TV" twist.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

Assuming that Prince/bodyguard is a binary question (he's one or the other) let's take a look at possible statements and consequences.

1) "I am the crown prince of Daxum" - True  At best he gets treated like royalty.  At worst he gets treated, well, like he's already eing treated.  There's been no indication he has any real enemies.  Daxum was destroyed in the same disaster the destroyed Krypton.

2) "I am the crown prince of Daxum" - False ("I'm actually the bodyguard") It's not like he'd expect anyone on Earth to be able to call his bluff so he could expect the same treatment as the True statement.  Really this would have been what I would have expected, that Mon-el pretended to be the Prince only to confess later.

3) "I was the Prince's bodyguard." - True I see no advantage to Mon-el to say this.  He's essentially admitting "I had one job, to keep the Prince safe and live and I fucked that up.  He's dead along with the rest of my people."  Since Mon-el is apparently saved by the wounded Prince's unselfish, it fits the relative lack of guilt he shows about the death of his charge.

4) "Was the Prince's bodyguard." - False (as, I'm really the Prince") I see no reason for this to be the case aside from some weird psychological guilt thing or some "just because it's TV" twist.

Excellent analysis, but it's Daxam.  D-a-x-a-m.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

8 hours ago, johntfs said:

23 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Sure, but:

1) I think we can rely on the fact that this is not the show that's going to turn Supergirl and Superman into villains who've been playing the long con and 

2) I think that the writers have been leaving clues that Mon-El is not who he's claimed he is, for instance, saying he's never worked before when I would presume that a palace guard actually does do work.

I've been wrong before, but I've also read a lot of fiction and watched a lot of TV! 

Assuming that Prince/bodyguard is a binary question (he's one or the other) let's take a look at possible statements and consequences.

1) "I am the crown prince of Daxum" - True  At best he gets treated like royalty.  At worst he gets treated, well, like he's already eing treated.  There's been no indication he has any real enemies.  Daxum was destroyed in the same disaster the destroyed Krypton.

2) "I am the crown prince of Daxum" - False ("I'm actually the bodyguard") It's not like he'd expect anyone on Earth to be able to call his bluff so he could expect the same treatment as the True statement.  Really this would have been what I would have expected, that Mon-el pretended to be the Prince only to confess later.

3) "I was the Prince's bodyguard." - True I see no advantage to Mon-el to say this.  He's essentially admitting "I had one job, to keep the Prince safe and live and I fucked that up.  He's dead along with the rest of my people."  Since Mon-el is apparently saved by the wounded Prince's unselfish, it fits the relative lack of guilt he shows about the death of his charge.

4) "Was the Prince's bodyguard." - False (as, I'm really the Prince") I see no reason for this to be the case aside from some weird psychological guilt thing or some "just because it's TV" twist.

As I've said, you could be right. I partly agree with your statement "I see no reason for this to be the case aside from some weird psychological guilt thing.... " 

If he is indeed the Prince, Mon-El either:

1) Feels guilty that instead of staying behind to die with his people (as the Prince in the story he told the D.E.O. did), he survived.  He abandoned his subjects.

or

2) Is aware that his actions in leaving Daxam might appear cowardly so doesn't want people to know the truth.

Edited November 11, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse