S01.E06: The Adversary

[Lingo]

14 minutes ago, Goatherd said:

I'm fairly face-blind, but I looked at a freeze frame of "ghost dad" next to Ford's photo, and not only does it look like the same guy, but it looks like he's wearing exactly the same outfit. Eep!

My take on it is that the ghost family looks just like Ford's family, with one exception -- the dad. Ford tells us that Arnold built them as a gift, and also that Arnold said that "great artists always hid themselves in their work." So Arnold's way of doing that was to make Ford's father look like himself instead.

Anyway, that's my takeaway -- not that Arnold was actually Ford's father. Ford then changed the Ghost Dad's behavior and personality to better match his own father's, but left him looking like Arnold.

Ah, so maybe the real Arnold is hiding in the park by pretending to be the robot! :O

Uh, but that wouldn't work because he'd keep aging .... :P

[RealityCreator]

I liked this episode the best of all of them so far, and I was also the most disappointed in this episode:  because of this

 

Quote

So many dumb people in the episode :P  What was Felix motivation for bringing Meave upstairs?  
And nobody said boo about it?  C'mon, Felix was a low level employee working downstairs, he did NOT even change his butcher garb and NOBODY on design stopped and questioned him??
Lol and the 2 dum dums just went along with making the host smarter?  The obvious choice would have been to make Meave dumber and then report it to QA, no?

 

Yeah.  It made no sense for Felix to take Maeve UPSTAIRS!! on a grand tour of the facility where they could be seen through glass walls together.  Wouldn't someone else recognize Maeve, since she's been around for awhile?  Also, Douche Tech (don't know his name) had no organic reason to go along with making Maeve smarter.  If anything, he should've made her more stupid, and then not report her to QA, and then get to do what he wants to with her (wasn't that part of the bargain?  Maybe I missed something there).

The other scene that was disappointing because it was a cliche was, of course, Elsie going alone into a dark scary building to uncover a nefarious plot/give the audience an exposition dump and then getting nabbed by a faceless bad person.  Sigh.

Other than those two irritations/poor writing decisions, I loved Teddy's explanation of the meaning of the maze, and I look forward to his spiritual journey.  I enjoyed the plot with Ford's "family" in the hidden sector - love the little boy Ford character.  And, of course, Thandie Newton's acting as Maeve was superb - a joy to watch her character's newfound knowledge unfold, however ridiculous and unbelievable the plot set up was that allowing that to happen.

Edited November 7, 2016 by RealityCreator

[Bill1978]

So far out of 6 episodes I have only found 1 'boring'. I enjoyed this episode. I described it to a friend that it feels like the Lost mystery but they aren't stalling and are answering relevant questions as they go.

I did find myself intrigued the most with Maeve's plotline. And I've hand waved her tour as some sort of maintenance drill they regularly do with bots. It's why Felix had the control pad to keep up the illusion. Yeah it makes no sense, but its the best I can do. I felt really sad for Maeve seeing all that, and Thandie did it all with her eyes and body. I do hope that super intelligent Maeve remembers what Felix did for her.

I missed Dolores but I didn't miss William.

So is Teddy now a 'bad guy'? I guess if he is, it will make it easier for the audience to accept Dolores choosing William over Teddy?

I was a bit confused with time when Ford came across the dead dog during daytime which in the show was placed in the middle of two Elise scenes set at night. I'm hoping Elise got nabbed by a good guy who will give her information on the condition she keeps it on the down low. I really do feel the robots becoming sentient is meant to be a good thing.

[Gobi]

Has Maeve overcome her programming to enable her to hurt humans on her own? She threatened Sylvester, but hosts have always been able to threaten humans. Could she actually carry it out? There was no direct reference to that ability. I'm thinking yes, because it's hard to imagine even Felix deliberately giving her that power.

Wondering If the gunslinger in the abandoned  office is the same as the movie one, or just a shout out.

Another nice background bit of business - We finally got to see "Grizzly Adams" provoke a duel with a guest, and lose, of course.

I like how the show got around the two timelines/non-linear issue by having TMIB and Teddy literally ride around Pariah, and thus avoiding the William/Logan/Dolores story. A meta metaphor, as it were.

I think this episode killed the Bernard is a robot/Bernard is Arnold theories, but I've been wrong before.

Ford's dog didn't look like a greyhound to me, although it should be. I'll have to look closer next time.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Gobi

[BooBear]

Mave was the highlight of this episode. How can you not root for that smart bot?  I want to see her take it over.  Though stupid Felix. 

But overall it was boring and I was hoping I would never see Seizmore again, alas, well.  I am getting a little frustrated with Ford being everywhere all the time. 

I would like to know what is going on with the espionage. Is Delos looking to spark another catastrophe so they can close the park and get their insurance pay out?  Kind of sounds like the "hemmoraging cash" has to be a current state of affairs. 

[dr pepper]

This week on The Return of Prometheus, we discover that Westworld has employees who should be extremely genre savvy but aren't. "I've got important information, and i'll bring it too you later" is how people get murdered, idiots!

Also, whoever expected to be blackmailed by someone whose thought processes you can watch in real time?

Also, boy confirmed as Ford's inner child. I can't decide if that's endearing or creepy.

Also, two time period theory gains ground, unfortunately.

Also, high level betrayal? Or Arnold setting her up? And what about the data smuggling-- is someone else planning to build a super larp of their own?

Also, Teddy's backstory injection has a lot more to it than a grievance against Wyatt. Did Ford deliberately do this because he knew the MIB would recruit him?

[Gobi]

2 minutes ago, BooBear said:

Mave was the highlight of this episode. How can you not root for that smart bot?  I want to see her take it over.  Though stupid Felix. 

But overall it was boring and I was hoping I would never see Seizmore again, alas, well.  I am getting a little frustrated with Ford being everywhere all the time. 

I would like to know what is going on with the espionage. Is Delos looking to spark another catastrophe so they can close the park and get their insurance pay out?  Kind of sounds like the "hemmoraging cash" has to be a current state of affairs. 

If Theresa's Chinese caller doesn't work for Delos, that could mean she is sabotaging Westworld to cause a financial collapse that would allow another corporation to step in and take it over. We know she's somewhat out of the loop, hence not a favorite, with Delos, because she didn't even know the rep was there until Ford told her.

[mrspidey]

6 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Downstairs PC used old Westworld logo and the screen that Meave saw used the new one.  But I am not going to say anything about the timeline theories ;) ;) ;)

It doesn't prove anything anyway. Downstairs is where the old stuff is stored, so of course you'd find the old logo there. 

[parandroid]

2 hours ago, RealityCreator said:

Also, Douche Tech (don't know his name) had no organic reason to go along with making Maeve smarter.  If anything, he should've made her more stupid, and then not report her to QA, and then get to do what he wants to with her (wasn't that part of the bargain?  Maybe I missed something there).

The showrunners discuss this in an interview:

Q: Nitpicky question though: Couldn’t the body shop guys just jack down Maeve’s levels to knock her out, and make some lobotomizing so-called “mistake” to take out her memory? We’ve been shown over and over the humans have so much control, it’s hard to believe they couldn’t get the upper hand on a rogue host. 

Nolan: I will point you toward episode 8. 

[Darian]

I've been adoring Thandie Newton since the first episode and wow, she continues to amaze. Her walk scene...so powerful. The music playing over that scene was perfect, too. I think some shows would have music that ramped up the drama, but that plaintive, maybe elegiac music...gorgeous. 

[Gobi]

28 minutes ago, parandroid said:

The showrunners discuss this in an interview:

Q: Nitpicky question though: Couldn’t the body shop guys just jack down Maeve’s levels to knock her out, and make some lobotomizing so-called “mistake” to take out her memory? We’ve been shown over and over the humans have so much control, it’s hard to believe they couldn’t get the upper hand on a rogue host. 

Nolan: I will point you toward episode 8. 

Nice interview. Mentions that the gunslinger was just a shout out, and we shouldn't read too much into  it.

[DarkRaichu]

35 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

It doesn't prove anything anyway. Downstairs is where the old stuff is stored, so of course you'd find the old logo there. 

Sure, of course, someone just needs to cross reverence that logo downstairs with the logo displayed on BIG SCREEN in front of William on ep2.... ;) ;) ;)

[DarkRaichu]

18 minutes ago, Darian said:

I've been adoring Thandie Newton since the first episode and wow, she continues to amaze. Her walk scene...so powerful. The music playing over that scene was perfect, too. I think some shows would have music that ramped up the drama, but that plaintive, maybe elegiac music...gorgeous. 

Also the background music went low when the 2 dum dums increased Meave's intelligent... then bam.. introducing smart Meave.. Very nice

[Ellaria]

49 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

It doesn't prove anything anyway. Downstairs is where the old stuff is stored, so of course you'd find the old logo there. 

Agree. I'm not ready to hang the non-linear timeline theory on use of different logos. It is certainly inconsistency but it *may* be explained away as not a top priority for a business that is "hemorrhaging cash." It is curious.

1 hour ago, Gobi said:

If Theresa's Chinese caller doesn't work for Delos, that could mean she is sabotaging Westworld to cause a financial collapse that would allow another corporation to step in and take it over. We know she's somewhat out of the loop, hence not a favorite, with Delos, because she didn't even know the rep was there until Ford told her.

Maybe the question is why Delos is brining in another representative (Charlotte). Presumably, it Is a lack of faith in her judgement. Or maybe its time for her to "rotate out" of this assignment as Sizemore suggested. (And BTW, I find Sizemore to be tiresome. If a human is to be "offed" by a host, I nominate him.) Regardless, the idea of corporate espionage is intriguing. I hope that it can be seamlessly integrated into an already complex storyline.  

Elsie sneaking around in the darkened room was a little too "Friday the 13th" for me. 

Still not sure what to make of Arnold and Robert's host family. It speaks - I think - to Ford's loneliness that he would recreate his childhood and perhaps happier times.

[paigow]

Maeve is Skynet...Felix & Sylvester are Sarah Connor & Kyle Reese...

[benteen]

I love the detail with Ford and Bernard having a conversation while Ford's robot family is going about their business in the back. 

[dmc]

This was the best episode yet.

[gwhh]

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

What does level 20 athletic ability give you?  You get Michael  Phelps?

So the host going to like weed and hang out in frat houses to party all the live long day?  

[teddysmom]

Who couldn't see what was going to happen to Elsie the minute Bernard told her to "be care......." and she hung up. PUHLEASE.

[BloatedGuppy]

2 hours ago, Darian said:

I've been adoring Thandie Newton since the first episode and wow, she continues to amaze. Her walk scene...so powerful. The music playing over that scene was perfect, too. I think some shows would have music that ramped up the drama, but that plaintive, maybe elegiac music...gorgeous. 

That was, I believe, the Vitamin String Quartet's version of "Motion Picture Soundtrack" by Radiohead. 

By my count that's now three Radiohead songs on the show in total through six episodes, including two in this one alone. I approve.

And yeah, that walk scene with the music was absolutely gorgeous, and perhaps the highlight of the entire show up to this point. Powerful and sad.

[sneakyflute]

There's a reason they keep flashing that retro logo. They even referenced the changing logo in a tweet before the show premiered. 

[snowwhyte]

This was my favourite episode despite some of the predictable things that happened. The visuals were stunning, some answers were revealed and it kept me engaged despite the cliches.

[jeansheridan]

Neither Elsie or Bernard showed any concern for their own well being.  Bernard put himself in jeopardy at least twice, maybe even three times if the head of QA is evil.  I realize they are office workers, engineers, but Elise had a robot seemingly attack her.  She should have been much more wary.  

I don't know why Maeve can't be overridden by another engineer.  Bernard surely has enough access to freeze her.  Her newfound awareness feels very fragile.  

Did Felix say it takes 6000 hours to create her?  That's fast.  It takes about 158,000 hours to grow a human from 0 to 18 (I rounded up).

[DarkRaichu]

6 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

Neither Elsie or Bernard showed any concern for their own well being.  Bernard put himself in jeopardy at least twice, maybe even three times if the head of QA is evil.  I realize they are office workers, engineers, but Elise had a robot seemingly attack her.  She should have been much more wary.  

They still think they are gods in Westworld universe.  Their foldable pads (I want 1 too btw) must have contained admin masterkeys to stop the robots.   When Bernard realized Ford's dad bot did not listen to his verbal command, his reaction was to reach for the pad in his pocket.  

[numbnut]

4 hours ago, Gobi said:

I think this episode killed the Bernard is a robot/Bernard is Arnold theories, but I've been wrong before.

How so?

I guess Arnold's sketchbook blows my "Arnold has always been AI" theory out of the water. (If the sketchbook is Ford's, my theory still stands.) Ford clearly lied about that photo -- he didn't reveal that Arnold is his dad or that the guy in the photo isn't Arnold. I'm now wondering how Ford knows the maze is in the church. This is an assumption based on the edit from the maze table carving to Ford looking at the church model and going to Arnold's sketchbook.

Edited November 7, 2016 by numbnut

[ennui]

4 hours ago, Gobi said:

Ford's dog didn't look like a greyhound to me, although it should be. I'll have to look closer next time.

Me, neither. Looked like a generic brown dog.

3 hours ago, parandroid said:

Couldn’t the body shop guys just jack down Maeve’s levels to knock her out, and make some lobotomizing so-called “mistake” to take out her memory?

They wanted to see what would happen. Typical guys, modifying a car to make it go faster, louder, etc.

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Elsie sneaking around in the darkened room was a little too "Friday the 13th" for me. 

I expect Elsie to return next week as a Stepford Wife.

[Cthulhudrew]

6 hours ago, Goatherd said:

Anyway, that's my takeaway -- not that Arnold was actually Ford's father. Ford then changed the Ghost Dad's behavior and personality to better match his own father's, but left him looking like Arnold.

Unless... Arnold is Ford's "father" because Ford is an android! Dun, dun, dunnnnn!!!!

 

 

(Note, I don't currently believe this to be the case. But that would be a big mindscrew, wouldn't it?)

[Cthulhudrew]

6 hours ago, RealityCreator said:

Yeah.  It made no sense for Felix to take Maeve UPSTAIRS!! on a grand tour of the facility where they could be seen through glass walls together.  Wouldn't someone else recognize Maeve, since she's been around for awhile?  Also, Douche Tech (don't know his name) had no organic reason to go along with making Maeve smarter.  If anything, he should've made her more stupid, and then not report her to QA, and then get to do what he wants to with her (wasn't that part of the bargain?  Maybe I missed something there).

I think the key comes down to what transpired between these two guys (last episode? Two eps ago?), when DT comments that Felix will never be able to rise above his station, so why bother? I got the sense that there is some real stratification between the various employees, and it fosters some resentment. You see this even with Elsie and QA. So, for the moment, I'm thinking Felix sees this as an opportunity to expand his knowledge of programming and the androids- like with the bird, but on a larger scale- plus, I think he's still a bit shell-shocked and not thinking clearly. DT, I think, just got talked into it by Maeve, who appealed to his sense of inferiority and ambition. Hopefully they dive into it a bit more with them both, though.

5 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I was a bit confused with time when Ford came across the dead dog during daytime which in the show was placed in the middle of two Elise scenes set at night.

That confused me a bit, too, but I think Elsie's scenes may not necessarily be at "night." When we first see her, she's walking through the dark underground tunnels, and then she ends up going to a dark abandoned area of the park. Possibly the lights were just not on there to simulate daylight because it is unused? Maybe they can simulate day and night conditions at different times in different areas of the park? I don't know. I agree it was a jarring contrast.

5 hours ago, Gobi said:

Has Maeve overcome her programming to enable her to hurt humans on her own? She threatened Sylvester, but hosts have always been able to threaten humans. Could she actually carry it out? There was no direct reference to that ability. I'm thinking yes, because it's hard to imagine even Felix deliberately giving her that

I think she was just bluffing.

[okerry]

9 hours ago, numbnut said:

So Arnold's uploaded consciousness is now infecting Ford's robot family? Very curious why Ford's robot dad looks like "Arnold" (from the photo). It could mean that Ford partnered with his dad but he didn't mention that to Bernard. And why can't lawyers find any info on the father after his demise? I'm still leaning toward Arnold being AI or at least a robot (the MiB refers to him as a "man" but I'm not sure if they've actually met). If the maze explanation is true (about a man repeatedly dying) and Arnold created the maze, he can't be human.

I believe the real Arnold was Robert Ford's father. That's exactly what we saw in the cottage family scene.

And "The man who was repeatedly killed and brought back to life again, and subsequently destroyed his world" is a description of The Gunslinger from the original movie. Don't know if that will prove to be the case here, but that's exactly what happened to him and what he did! And we just saw him, however briefly, in this episode!

[okerry]

9 hours ago, Lingo said:

What a moving episode. How would you feel if you died and went to "heaven" and THAT is what you saw?!?!

 

Oh, my thoughts exactly while watching that. Beautiful sequence, and that music playing under it . . . 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

A Tour Through Westworld's Underbelly Gives Maeve A Chance To Shine

It's good to be a fearless android.

[okerry]

1 hour ago, sneakyflute said:

There's a reason they keep flashing that retro logo. They even referenced the changing logo in a tweet before the show premiered. 

Tweet, please! And thank you!

[Willowy]

I think it would be cool if Dolores was the one that grabbed Elsie.

Dolores has been going off-script for a while now, and maybe she saw in Elsie a way to learn more about what's happening to her. She has to be one confused droid at this point. And since they've taken great pains to show D acquiring a creeping sentience, it could make sense that she'd see an opportunity like that and at least hogtie Elsie so she could question her. 

[morgankobi]

I almost forgot my favorite burn in the message given to Sizemore from the bartender. (Approx.) "The tortured artist thing only works for artists." Nice.

[xaxat]

14 hours ago, gwhh said:

What happens when you turn the physical ability up to level 20?

 

5 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Sure, of course, someone just needs to cross reverence that logo downstairs with the logo displayed on BIG SCREEN in front of William on ep2.... ;) ;) ;)

Old logo.

[jbrecken]

3 hours ago, BloatedGuppy said:

That was, I believe, the Vitamin String Quartet's version of "Motion Picture Soundtrack" by Radiohead. 

By my count that's now three Radiohead songs on the show in total through six episodes, including two in this one alone. I approve.

Appropriate, since in this episode we learned that Arnold's robots can receive updates remotely, so they may literally have radios in their heads.

[ACW]

5 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Maybe the question is why Delos is brining in another representative (Charlotte). Presumably, it Is a lack of faith in her judgement. Or maybe its time for her to "rotate out" of this assignment as Sizemore suggested. (And BTW, I find Sizemore to be tiresome. If a human is to be "offed" by a host, I nominate him.) Regardless, the idea of corporate espionage is intriguing. I hope that it can be seamlessly integrated into an already complex storyline. 

If there are two time periods (or maybe even if there aren't)...

And if Bernard-talking-to-Dolores (whether physically, or in her head) is actually Arnold, and thus Bernard looks like Arnold used to...

And if Arnold wasn't a robot...

Then I'm betting that Charlotte is related to Arnold. 

(Yes, this is mostly based on ethnicity.  No, I don't think it's likely that the show would have made Charlotte and Arnold both black if it wasn't plot-significant.)

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, jbrecken said:

Appropriate, since in this episode we learned that Arnold's robots can receive updates remotely, so they may literally have radios in their heads.

Technically the older models have receivers that connect them to older network.  This network is no longer accessible to the newer model....

 

Off topic: Hmm, wasn't that basically how TM avoided detection from S, ie by using existing old network ??  Looked like someone was re-using ideas from his other series ;) 

[snowwhyte]

So Ford saw a maze symbol carved into a table and went to his office and pulled out a book with a maze drawing and a woman who looked to be Dolores. It looked like Ford saw the maze, remembered seeing something similar and looked it up in an old book. If it was a journal i don't think it was his. Maybe it was Arnold's or William's. I don't think we've seen William journaling.

[Gobi]

3 hours ago, numbnut said:

How so?

I guess Arnold's sketchbook blows my "Arnold has always been AI" theory out of the water. (If the sketchbook is Ford's, my theory still stands.) Ford clearly lied about that photo -- he didn't reveal that Arnold is his dad or that the guy in the photo isn't Arnold. I'm now wondering how Ford knows the maze is in the church. This is an assumption based on the edit from the maze table carving to Ford looking at the church model and going to Arnold's sketchbook.

Nothing Bernard did was consistent with him being Arnold or a robot, and much was inconsistent. If he's Arnold, he wouldn't have been surprised by seeing Ford's robo-family; he would know all about them, he would have already known they were there. Similarly, he could have stopped the father dead in his tracks if Arnold has the access to the old hosts he is supposed to have. If he was just a robot made by Ford, Ford would  have no need to explain anything about robo-family. He could upload the info, if it mattered, or just order Bernard to erase the encounter. 

[Chris24601]

11 hours ago, Lingo said:

It's hard to care about Dolores' slow road to consciousness (or whatever's going on with her) when Maeve is tearing up the fast track. It's like Dolores is playing through all 32 levels, while Maeve just took the Warp Tunnel to the end.

I dunno, if my sci-fi viewing has taught me anything its that taking the quick and easy route on anything related to A.I.'s inevitably leads to SkyNet.

Also, overly ambitious lower tier guys who muck with the failsafes to try and get ahead always leads to bad things. Note the specific things changed, reduced LOYALTY and then intelligence increased past the level that was deemed safe for a host to have. And we all know that nothing bad can ever happen when a disloyal super-genius gets ideas. /sarcasm.

By contrast, Dolores is taking the slow route to consciousness and doing so via interaction with one of the few guests who seems more interested in being a white hat than indulging in black hat escapades. In other words, she's learning to be more human from a good human.

Also, unlike Maeve, Dolores is one of the original models created by Arnold which, according to Ford when discussing his 'family' with Bernard, are superior to the later models in a way that will no doubt prove critical as the story continues.

In short, I think Maeve is being set up to grow into something truly dangerous to humanity while Dolores will be growing into something or even someone who will defend humanity from what Maeve is becoming.

One thing I'm beginning to wonder about too is if the two-timeline thing is true and TMIB is William, if his search for the Maze isn't so much for himself as it is a means of unlocking Dolores' consciousness because he's aware in some sense of what's going on behind the scenes with WestWorld Corporate (i.e. he has inside info on the park and knows its in trouble or facing a buyout that would lead to Dolores getting scrapped and he's trying to somehow finally make her a "real girl" so he can get her out of the park before that happens... i.e. be a hero for real by really saving the girl instead of just a pretend hero who pretends to save the girl who just goes back to her horrible horrible loop the moment he leaves).

[arc]

4 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Did Felix say it takes 6000 hours to create her?  That's fast.  It takes about 158,000 hours to grow a human from 0 to 18 (I rounded up).

He wasn't that precise, just said it takes thousands of hours. Which makes Arnold a genius if he could make four hosts as a gift for Ford.

1 hour ago, ACW said:

[...] Then I'm betting that Charlotte is related to Arnold. 

(Yes, this is mostly based on ethnicity.  No, I don't think it's likely that the show would have made Charlotte and Arnold both black if it wasn't plot-significant.)

Wow, why? This show cast an Asian-American as "Felix Lutz". Casting multiple black actors doesn't have to be plot significant in 2016.

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Possibly the lights were just not on there to simulate daylight because it is unused? Maybe they can simulate day and night conditions at different times in different areas of the park?

I strongly doubt it, because the stray was attempting to use a satellite uplink, so the park has to be able to see the real sky.

[kokapetl]

How sloppy must the whole operation be if a family of 5, plus their house, exists for 30 years and nobody noticed. 

[blackwing]

Loved this episode.  We continue to learn a little more about the world each week.  So Theresa has some ulterior motive.  Wouldn't be surprised if she sent Stubbs to neutralise Elsie.  

Maeve is the most interesting character on this show.  Thandie Newton is really bringing it.  Love that she is directing her own reprogramming.  I like Teddy as well.  Can't say I was disappointed that we didn't see any of boring vanilla William this week, although I did miss Dolores and I am curious as to what happened to Logan.

13 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I sincerely hope they gave Thandie Newton some pasties or something to cover herself when they weren't actually showing her tits or ass. I hope she didn't have to do all those scenes entirely nude. (Yeah, I get that she's an actress, she's got to be comfortable with her body, her body is just a tool, yada yada yada, but I felt sorry for her.) At least she got to put her knickers on when Lutz walked her through the upper floors.

ETA: I figured that the host against the wall when Bernard was down in the lower levels was probably a shout-out to Yul Brenner just from the black cowboy hat, but I didn't catch that his hands are even in the same position on his gunbelt. 

ETA2: I don't mind colorblind casting, but once they cast an actor of Korean heritage in the role of Felix Lutz I wish they had changed his name to something more appropriate.

I don't think they do.  I think she has to sit there butt naked.  There was an interview with James Marsden where he was talking about his scene with Anthony Hopkins where he is butt naked, and he specifically said that in between takes, they couldn't give him a robe to cover up with (he didn't elaborate as to why, maybe they want to make sure he is in the exact same position for continuity, or maybe the robe would brush off body makeup?) so he just had to continue sitting there naked.  He said that Hopkins told stories to make him comfortable.

What's wrong with calling him "Felix Lutz"?  This kind of casting is happening more and more these days.  The character could always be part-Asian even if the actor is not.   Conrad Ricamora, who looks 100% Asian to me even though he is half-Filipino and half-white, plays a character named "Oliver Hampton" on "How to Get Away with Murder".  Jimmy Smits, who looks 100% Hispanic to me even though I believe he is mixed race, plays a character named "John Donovan" on the upcoming "24" reboot.  Elodie Yung, who is half Cambodian and half French but looks 100% Asian to me, plays Elektra Natchios on "Daredevil", who is 100% Greek.

[arc]

I meant it seems like they cast Felix Lutz colorblind, so that argues against the race of Charlotte Hale meaning anything significant to the plot.

Quote

How sloppy must the whole operation be if a family of 5, plus their house, exists for 30 years and nobody noticed. 

I guess, but that part of the park has always been off limits (reserved for future narratives), so nothing important ever happens there. And given that Ford certainly knows where it is and has veto power, he could certainly keep everyone else from looking too hard over there. And these hosts were specifically kept off the location tracking system built in to all the other hosts.

I do wonder how robot boy Robert wandered over to wherever it was that Ford visited in ep 2. And what it means that he's kept Arnold's gift of his boyhood vacation alive all this time, while he said he "wasn't the nostalgic type" to Theresa back at the plantation's restaurant.

Edited November 7, 2016 by arc

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

How sloppy must the whole operation be if a family of 5, plus their house, exists for 30 years and nobody noticed. 

I'm kind of wondering the same sort of thing. I know, the park is enormous, and the sheer numbers of hosts and guests (which is limited but I'm not sure the specifics) and locations are difficult to track. It still seems to me like this management team is completely disorganized, or we haven't been shown the mechanics of the thing yet. Like why wouldn't you have built something into the hosts that immediately notifies a monitor team of departure from approved script / loop? Is the answer because there are too many to manage? Then rearrange your management team or technique so that one person is responsible for three or four active hosts. I presume a lot of these hosts are basically NPC backgrounds, like your imteraction with them is fairly limited and directed to get you back to talking to the really interactive characters. There is definitely enough data collected to say "the average interaction with these ten hosts in this one town is under X minutes per week, and among them they've only been checked out of loop twice in a year's time, there's no need to active monitor them." Then when you have something like a Maeve incident, or the sheriff, or Abernathy, an alert would pop up on a QA screen and kick further monitoring / meetings about how to proceed into effect. A 30 year old park like this is complicated to run every day, but by now systems would be in place inside the park that would ensure quality and limit liability. It would only make sense. It baffles me that there isn't someone ALWAYS aware of what a particular set of hosts is doing without having to monitor it in that room with the model. I mean what is the point of that model anyway? To look cool? I mean check, but wouldn't the display be always available on the pads? And why would you ever need to see the ENTIRE park? You could more effectively manage guest concentration on a much smaller model, like know that four are in Pariah, 65 are in Sweetwater, 9 on the trails, and these three or four are completely out of the normal places so they'd be monitored as one-offs.

 

WHY AM I THINKING THIS WAY? AM I A ROBOT?

[Gobi]

11 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

How sloppy must the whole operation be if a family of 5, plus their house, exists for 30 years and nobody noticed. 

I think it shows how tight Ford's control is over Westworld, that he is able to prevent anyone  finding out about it.

[SoothingDave]

Why aren't there security cameras all over the "operations" areas of the company.  We know that the "butchers" can get away with having sex with the hosts, play with birds and get held with knives to their throats and no one even notices.  And all the walls are glass!

Fire the guy in charge of security first.

[Hanahope]

So I liked that they kept MIB and Teddy from Pariah stating that there was something going on there, thereby making one think that William, Delores, Lawrence and Logan were all just there when they had the big shoot out with the ex-confederate soldiers.  If there are two timelines, then we don't know exactly what happened in Pariah with just Delores.  All we can presume is that Lawrence was still able to get the nitro from the soldier's wagon (how is unknown for sure, though it looks like Delores participated, as her clothes had changed) since Delores was last seen in the train car with the coffin that in a prior scene with William and Lawrence, was shown to be a dead guy's body filled with nitro.  So maybe there still was some sort of shoot-out between the ex-confed soldiers and Lawrence's guys (since Lawrence may have still been with MIB at that time, we don't know for sure either).  So by not letting us see Pariah now, we don't know if it was post William/Delores (with Logan still there), or just post Delores.

I did like the expression on MIB's face when Teddy went all gattling gun.

I kindof agree that I don't understand why the butchers didn't just dumb down Maeve and report her to QC.  Ah, plot line requirements.

Of course, Elsie was going to get attacked.  That was telegraphed the moment she went off by herself in the dark.

Good thing for Bernard that Ford just happened to be at his family's house when he showed up.  My impression is that the 'father' looks like Arnold, but Ford gave him more characteristics of his dad.  Whether they are one and the same, is not yet certain, but I don't think so.  

I bet that the broadcasting unit found by Elsie was turned on by Theresa.  Until Delores' father glitched due to the memory upgrade/photo, the older units couldn't receive the messages, which is like a virus.  Once the glitch happened, and the father received the starting phrase and passed on the 'virus' with the phrase, its now infecting other older units, who all can now hear certain "thoughts" that are the broadcasting, which was created by Arnold.  His last final 'fuck you' as it were, which was dormant until Theresa activated it.

[Gobi]

10 minutes ago, SoothingDave said:

Why aren't there security cameras all over the "operations" areas of the company.  We know that the "butchers" can get away with having sex with the hosts, play with birds and get held with knives to their throats and no one even notices.  And all the walls are glass!

Fire the guy in charge of security first.

It seems to be an open secret that workers are having sex with the hosts. The absence of cameras may be a way to tolerate this without openly approving. Let's the workers blow off steam in what seems to be a very remote location.