Post-Election Fears & Anxieties

[clb1016]

5 hours ago, backformore said:

Yes.  Trump is facing backlash from the left, who fear what he has said he's going to do.  But there will be more, from his own people, who are worried that he WON'T.

I wonder how his supporters are going to respond when they find out that when he led them in chants of "Build a wall"  and "Lock her up", he didn't really MEAN it. 

Some people on this board have mocked those of us who have been going through a rough time since the election.  I wonder if they will show the same lack of compassion for Trump supporters when they exhibit signs of depression and despondency after being betrayed by the fraud on whom they've placed their hopes. No thousands of manufacturing jobs; no thousands of coal mining jobs; no wall; no mass deportations of over 10,000,000 people; tax cuts that benefit only people in Trump's socioeconomic class.  And God helps us if we end up in more military conflicts because of his lack of self-control, because it's always the children of the poor and working class who end up fighting our battles (don't expect to see Eric and Don Jr. in uniform).

Edited November 12, 2016 by clb1016

[Macbeth]

10 hours ago, Kromm said:

Have you had any problems mentally or emotionally reconciling your vote for Johnson after the election? I assume you went into the vote assuming it WOULD work as a protest, since you believed Clinton would still win, but then Johnson's showing would send a message. I suppose the message is sent even harder this way, but do you see why a lot of people believe it was cutting off your nose to spite your face?

I actually voted for Jill Stein.  And I have no problems reconciling my vote.  I live in Massachusetts - there is no way my state was going red - Clinton got twice the number of votes that Trump did.  I followed Molly Ivins' advice regarding protest votes.  If you don't live in a swing state - your vote won't matter - protest.  If you live in a swing state you can't afford to protest - if your state goes republican - poor people/people of color will suffer.

Both candidates terrified me.  Trump much more than Clinton, but she did as well.  She is a war hawk that was putting neo-cons on her transition team.  A Democratic candidate was embracing George  W's policies?  I didn't vote for him - why would I vote for her?  She was ramping up the rhetoric against Russia.  Really?? Are we going to have WWIII??

Clinton was a shit candidate.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Macbeth

[YesWeCantNotKnope]

https://twitter.com/Fahrenthold/status/797196888751702016

Pam Bondi is now on Trump's transition team.

You know, the Attorney General of Florida that was in the process of deciding whether to go after Trump University for fraud, but decided against it after she just so happened to get a $25,000 donation? That Pam Bondi?

I feel like we're in the fucking Twilight Zone. How was this not a huge! media! scandal!1 BEFORE he was elected, let alone NOW?

I am just so damn frustrated because CNN etc need to fucking do their jobs and report on this stuff. Constantly. But nope, they're rather go after Hillary's emails for the 34093194020th time.

[Snarklepuss]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Why wouldn't you worry about Pence? If Trump dies or is deemed unfit for office because of his pending Fraud trial or any other number of reasons, or he resigns,Pence becomes President. Also,  Pence has the tie breaking  vote in the Senate. Steve Bannon's name is being bandied about as Trump's Chief of Staff.  If you aren't familiar with him, you should learn about him.  Gingrich couldn't bring about the destruction of society because Bill Clinton was in the White House to veto what he could.  

I'm less inclined to see them as ineffectual or less extreme especially since they  have the House, Senate and the Presidency.  But that's just me.

I don't worry that much about the Pence scenario because it's pretty remote, plus he seems like a reasonable sort, not one who would want to destroy people's freedoms.  I didn't say I wouldn't worry, I'm just not panicking.  I don't get the panicking at scenarios that are 2nd and 3rd degree "what ifs".  As for the Republican majorities, I seriously doubt they're going to push through a lot of stuff that's THAT unpopular.  If the demonstrations now do nothing but make it obvious to them that they'd have most of the American public to deal with if they do, that might help to contain them at least somewhat.  I just doubt they are going to push through a lot of stuff that's going to cause a major backlash.  But even if they do, this is the American system.  If we didn't allow the opposing view to win once in a while we wouldn't be a democracy.  As much as we might not like having to live with that in some cases, it's the American way to make that possible and I've been living with that for almost 60 years now so I guess I am used to rolling with the punches.  The good thing is that in 4 years we'll have another election and can get rid of him if he's that bad.  So again, there's another reason not to panic.  Plus I still don't think Trump is for some of the things that he has been assumed to be for so that also may help even if some of his cabinet is for those things.

[AliShibaz]

I have to admit that most of my opinions concerning Hilary were formed when I read several articles supposedly written by Secret Service Agents who told stories about how she treated them in a terribly cruel and demeaning way.

I have to admit that I started to believe these stories - without much proof - basically because several agents seemed to be saying the same things and those stories were never denied by Hilary's camp.

I'd like to know whether other people felt that kind of behavior was significant - whether they didn't mind the idea of the first female POTUS behaving that way to her secret service agents behind closed doors.

Can anyone point me to any info that would suggest these stories are really true? Or false?

[Snarklepuss]

6 hours ago, backformore said:

Yes.  Trump is facing backlash from the left, who fear what he has said he's going to do.  But there will be more, from his own people, who are worried that he WON'T.

I wonder how his supporters are going to respond when they find out that when he led them in chants of "Build a wall"  and "Lock her up", he didn't really MEAN it. 

I would pretty much bet my bank account that most people who voted for Trump (and I do know a few, mostly men) did not take those comments seriously.  They voted for Trump because of his plan to address jobs going overseas and other economic issues.  Being home a lot lately due to an injury, I have watched a few news stories on this where they randomly asked Trump supporters about the wall and most of them said they thought it was a metaphor for stronger immigrant control, not a real wall, and they really didn't think he meant a real wall.  We'll see if that's true or not.  So far Trump has seemed to compromise a bit on Obamacare and looks like he might be open to more of a reform of it than getting rid of it altogether, so there is hope that he's not as hard line as he might appear to some people.  So again, reason to worry a bit?  Yes.  Reason to panic and threaten to move out of the country?  No, not for me.  I'm with the "give the guy a chance" crowd right now.  Of course, depending on what he does in the near future that might change.  But catastrophizing about everything including whose face will appear on currency is just way too much, IMO.

[BuckeyeLou]

19 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

*cyberhug*

Joining in...

[Deanie87]

I don't want an apology from Trump because it won't mean anything.  What I do want is for him to come and "tell it like it is" to his more rabid followers and denounce the attacks that have been happening and denounce the KKK and denounce the very ugly factions who hold him as their savior.  THAT is what I need from him and he  just doesn't seem to want to do it.  Which kind of sucks for him because they are going to be his problem now.  I still don't think that he quite understands that he is expected to lead this entire country,  and not just the MAGA Pepe the Frog contingent.  You want to know about real life consequences?  I have gotten 3 emails from my son's school district in the last 2 days about racially motivated incidents in the schools.  That is happening all over the country. Those of his followers who ARE racist are now emboldened and seem to believe that this is what The Donald wants from them.  So hooray for all of those people who don't have to worry about this kind of stuff, good for you.  But lets not pretend that the people who are feeling the effects of what this election has brought forth are worrying for nothing.

And as for being weak and falling on our knees in despair, JFC its been all of 3 days since he won, people have a right to their reactions. The anger and the strength and the fight will come, and it will come sooner than later.

[Dianthus]

How is it I only just found this forum? I'm so glad it's here. We're really gonna need each other to get through this.

[Grommet]

25 minutes ago, AliShibaz said:

Can anyone point me to any info that would suggest these stories are really true? Or false?

About those secret service stories, I couldn't find one nonpartisan organization who reported on that. All the links I found were to right wing websites. Not even CNN touched it, as far as I know. So I don't think these stories hold up at all.

[callmebetty]

11 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

I don't want an apology from Trump because it won't mean anything.  What I do want is for him to come and "tell it like it is" to his more rabid followers and denounce the attacks that have been happening and denounce the KKK and denounce the very ugly factions who hold him as their savior.  THAT is what I need from him and he  just doesn't seem to want to do it.  Which kind of sucks for him because they are going to be his problem now.  I still don't think that he quite understands that he is expected to lead this entire country,  and not just the MAGA Pepe the Frog contingent.  You want to know about real life consequences?  I have gotten 3 emails from my son's school district in the last 2 days about racially motivated incidents in the schools.  That is happening all over the country. Those of his followers who ARE racist are now emboldened and seem to believe that this is what The Donald wants from them.  So hooray for all of those people who don't have to worry about this kind of stuff, good for you.  But lets not pretend that the people who are feeling the effects of what this election has brought forth are worrying for nothing.

And as for being weak and falling on our knees in despair, JFC its been all of 3 days since he won, people have a right to their reactions. The anger and the strength and the fight will come, and it will come sooner than later.

Exactly .  The days are starting to blur but I don't think the protest marches started until Thursday or were they on Wednesday ? If Thursday then people took a day to process and then theyou took action . 

[KIMBERLYANN11]

15 hours ago, auntl said:

People on this board need to understand that the people from PA, OH, WS, MI voted for Obama in the last election. The people who voted for Trump are not bigots. Just because people have a different opinion than you, they are not bad, they are not dumb, they are not racists. They just have a different opinion and perceive things differently than you. They don't agree with you that Trump is a bigot. They also don't see Hillary as a saint. People on this board must understand that half of the country doesn't agree with their perception of things. I wish that they would keep that in mind when they make their posts.

I know I'm late to the party - but I just want to address this.  I live in Michigan  (and was born in Pennsylvania)  The people that I know personally who voted for Trump aren't necessarily bigots, but they are almost to a person - stupid.

I told one coworker that Pence actually scares me more.  She had no idea who Pence was.  When I told her he was assassination insurance for Trump and that my gay friends are terrified of him she asked me why.  I told her  - she had no clue.  She's not a bigot, but she sure as hell isn't a person who gives a shit about being educated.  I mentioned that my daughter participated in the Grand Rapids protest and their eyes got wide and they tried to commiserate about how horrible for me.  They didn't get it when I laughed at them and told them how much support the kids got from bystanders and motorists.  They didn't get it when I told them that DDs cousin was held up in traffic in the New York protest and she rolled down her window and high fived every single protester she drove past even though she was late for her appointment. I did try to explain and had one tell me that over half the country voted for him so he must be okay.  I had to tell her no - of all eligible voters it was just a tad over 25%.   Confusion.  Then I told her he lost the popular vote.  Confusion.  A coworker had to mansplain the electoral college to her.  And since he was a trumpie, he made it sound like the best thing since peanut butter toast.

Another dingbat has a niece in college.  Snowy was upset that her professor was commiserating with the students who were scared and angry.  Dingbat coworker is angry as hell and is going to the school to complain.  It is now her mission to try and get a law passed so that college professors can't discuss politics with the kids (who are grown adults)  I'm sure that will make political science class a load of fun.  I'm going to love it when she goes to the school and gets told to go eat a big bag of dicks.  I did mention to her that its horrible what kids get exposed to in college like that nice young man Derek Black (son of Stormwatch founder Don Black who had his eyes opened at the New College of Florida)  I told her to google it - but I don't think she knows how to google. She knows how to talk baby talk at the top of her lungs and talk about her grandkids.

Those are the Michigan Trump voters.

[Sandman87]

@Macbeth, are you me? You certainly sound like me, except for the part about taking advice from Molly Ivins. Both candidates were repulsive this year, but I found Clinton to be more so. Dishonesty, corruption, criminality, hypocracy, vindictiveness, the list goes on.

Getting panicky about Trump is pointless. Not only does it not help, but it ignores the fact that there are a lot of Republicans in congress who do not like him at all. You know, congress, that thing he'll need to get any kind of legislation passed. Between the unhappy Republicans and the Democrats, he's not getting any free rides there. He's going to have to work like hell to get anything that he wants out of someone like Ben Sasse (my write-in candidate).

 

6 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I would pretty much bet my bank account that most people who voted for Trump (and I do know a few, mostly men) did not take those comments seriously. 

On the PBS Newshour last night, Mark Shields quoted someone who nailed it pretty well (paraphrasing): "Trump's opponents took him literally but not seriously. Trumps supporters took him seriously but not literally."

 

1 minute ago, AliShibaz said:

I have to admit that most of my opinions concerning Hilary were formed when I read several articles supposedly written by Secret Service Agents who told stories about how she treated them in a terribly cruel and demeaning way.

I have to admit that I started to believe these stories - without much proof - basically because several agents seemed to be saying the same things and those stories were never denied by Hilary's camp.

I'd like to know whether other people felt that kind of behavior was significant - whether they didn't mind the idea of the first female POTUS behaving that way to her secret service agents behind closed doors.

Can anyone point me to any info that would suggest these stories are really true? Or false?

Not just the Secret Service. Also the Marines who pilot the White House helicopter, White House staff, bomb-sniffing dog handlers, and so on. Here's an article that cites some sources.

[editorgrrl]

37 minutes ago, AliShibaz said:

Most of my opinions concerning Hilary were formed when I read several articles supposedly written by Secret Service agents who told stories about how she treated them in a terribly cruel and demeaning way.

I have to admit that I started to believe these stories—without much proof—basically because several agents seemed to be saying the same things and those stories were never denied by Hilary's camp.

Can anyone point me to any info that would suggest these stories are really true? Or false?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/hillary-bill-clinton-secret-service-224578

Quote

The author of a new tell-all book about Hillary Clinton could never have seen any of what he claims—he was too low-ranking—say several high-level members of Secret Service presidential details, including the president of the Association of Former Agents of the United States Secret Service.

More factchecks:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/secretservice.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/hildabeast.asp

[DrSpaceman73]

My quotes function is malfunctioning, but to the person who asked if I regret voting for Gary Johnson, no, not for a minute.  If people stopped allowing the extreme wings of the Republicans and Democrats dominate the process and chose other candidates from other parties rather than just picking the lesser of two evils because they don't want someone else to win, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.  This notion that I have to vote for A or B because the other guy might win is a sad state of affairs in this country and is what both parties rely on to remain in power.  If we continually think only in the short term about the immediate future, the system will never improve. 

And to the person who said they view Obama as a moderate, I don't.  His voting record prior to becoming president was not moderate, it was down the line liberal.  I also don't think he was a horrible president, he was a perfectly mediocre president.   I think his biggest fault was he liked to talk to and campaign to the "people" throughout his presidency to prove he was right one very topic rather than actually find a way to work with Congress for solutions.  He never stopped campaigning.  Some argue it was obstructionism by Republicans, but he also came in from his win in 2008 and basically, almost literally, said "I won, not it will be my way."  Either way though, I don't view him as a moderate.  Bill Clinton actually was.

 

No idea why this windsprints thing keeps getting put in my post, I am not quoting it.

12 hours ago, windsprints said:

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by DrSpaceman73

[DeLurker]

7 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

What I don't understand is why people didn't fear the cabinets under Bush or Reagan.  Why all of a sudden the panic?  We've had right wingers and Republicans around forever and some of them were even more right wing than these are now.

This assumes all else is equal.  Our demographics have changed, our economy has changed, our society has changed, our engagement in world matters have changed, ...

[DrSpaceman73]

I also agree, as someone mentioned, that Trump is going to have a tough time working just with the people in his 'party'.  Many of the republican leaders don't like him, so even with a republican majority he will have a hard time getting things done.  They aren't just doing to cave to his demands.  Not just from a personality standpoint, but on issues, he holds some that are not exactly conservative.  In particular his view on free trade are not conservative, is practically a protectionist.  Also wants to spend a bunch of money on infrastructure repair, which will be a hard sell to republicans due to the cost. 

 

There are checks and balances in the system.  He may be president but he is not a dictator, as much as he might want to be. 

I think he is going to find out the actual job is much harder than he anticipated and his arrogance and dismissive attitude towards others is not going to be productive in Washington.  Its not like running a business where ultimately he makes the decisions.  He has to have agreement from others

[MulletorHater]

7 hours ago, backformore said:

Yes.  Trump is facing backlash from the left, who fear what he has said he's going to do.  But there will be more, from his own people, who are worried that he WON'T.

I wonder how his supporters are going to respond when they find out that when he led them in chants of "Build a wall"  and "Lock her up", he didn't really MEAN it. 

Not only that, factory workers are also wondering if he's going to impose those tariffs so that their wages will increase.  Given that he and his team are already walking back some of his campaign rhetoric, I wonder how soon they will realize they've been had--BAD.

[Danny Franks]

2 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

Not only that, factory workers are also wondering if he's going to impose those tariffs so that their wages will increase.  Given that he and his team are already walking back some of his campaign rhetoric, I wonder how soon they will realize they've been had--BAD.

There's already talk of a free trade deal between the US, Canada, Mexico and the UK. At least, there is over here, where the right wing press are gagging for news to boost Brexit.

I think it's going to take a long while for the majority to realise they've been had. Because they're already rationalising his change of heart over the ACA and Clinton, and trying to pretend that they wanted him to moderate after winning (also, that they knew he was going to). It's amazing, the loyalty he's inspired in some of these people. But a year from now, when jobs aren't coming back and the economy isn't growing and that wall still isn't being talked about? That's when they'll get disgruntled. There's nothing quite so ugly as zealous followers turning on their leader.

[Dianthus]

What really scares me is this: Trump is just a distraction. He's a Useful Idiot for tPtB. We'll all be focused on him, while they dismantle our government, take away our rights, and bankrupt our treasury. How the hell is voting for a rich white guy voting against the Establishment?!? You didn't stick it to the Man. He is the Man.

HRC was the real threat, and that's why she had to be stopped. She's smart, determined, and a dedicated champion of women and children. Also, look who was stumping for her: Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, two of the loudest and clearest voices against the Wall Street banksters who caused the 2008 crash. The only solace I can take is our newly elected Senators who are women of color. I for one could totally get behind a Duckworth for President campaign. That woman is bad ass!

Edited November 12, 2016 by Dianthus
grammer

[windsprints]

Quote

Because, if I remember correctly, none of Reagan, Bush, or W came in also holding both houses of Congress. That's a lot of unchecked power. That's part of what scares me - that we aren't going to be able to have really effective balances of power because there is essentially very little opposition. Are any moderate Republicans going to stand up against something extreme and risk alienating their voters? I don't know. It's hard to have faith in that.

I did a quick check (I hope I didn't miss any) and the Republican control also existed in 1928-1931, 1953-1954 and 2003-2006. The Supreme Court also already leans Republican and Trump will be nominating to fill the open seat. 

Quote

I don't worry that much about the Pence scenario because it's pretty remote, plus he seems like a reasonable sort, not one who would want to destroy people's freedoms.

I do not find wanting to "convert" gay people as not destroying freedoms.  Being free to be who you are is the most basic freedom there is.

Quote

Can anyone point me to any info that would suggest these stories are really true? Or false?

I never followed too closely because I never believed it but I think most of it started from a book. There's also always stories like this.  For example, there's claims that Michelle Obama hates the military and anyone who is not black. I don't buy that either. Here's an article of a person saying the claims about HRC are false but I'm sure there's some saying they're true too: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/hillary-bill-clinton-secret-service-224578

Quote

don't expect to see Eric and Don Jr. in uniform

Of course not, they'd send Tiffany. Eric and Jr. will be off trophy hunting, killing elephants, etc.  US airlines have banned hunters bringing their "trophies" on board but now we'll have a President who condones this practice so who knows. 

My last comment on "weakness" - any counselor will explain that grief does not equal weakness. Grieving is part of life and no two people will react the same when feeling grief.  People aren't wired the same and some people don't have the ability to have empathy for what others feel. No one should be embarrassed for feeling grief even if there are people attempting to shame you for it.

Its only been a couple of days. LOL, people grieved longer when McDreamy died on Grey's Anatomy. Time Magazine (and IIRC other media outlets) posted articles from grief counselors saying its fine to grieve fictional characters. So, its normal/mentally healthy to grieve for fake people its certainly fine to have feelings over something that can impact life for so many Americans.
 

[Danny Franks]

27 minutes ago, Dianthus said:

The only solace I can take is our newly elected Senators who are women of color. I for one could totally get behind a Duckworth for President campaign. That woman is bad ass!

Some folks on Reddit were talking about Tammy Duckworth, and suggesting that in 2020, the US might not only have its first woman president, but it's first Asian American president and it's first cyborg president. She is badass.  And who knows what will happen for the Democrats over these next four years. All I know is that they have to find unity and direction now. Before the end of the calendar year, they need a new chair and a clear strategy to rise again.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Danny Franks

[MulletorHater]

16 minutes ago, Dianthus said:

What really scares me is this: Trump is just a distraction. He's a Useful Idiot for tPtB. We'll all be focused on him, while they dismantle our government, take away our rights, and bankrupt our treasury. How the hell is voting for a rich white guy voting against the Establishment?!? You didn't stick it to the Man. He is the Man.

HRC was the real threat, and that's why she had to be stopped. She's smart, determined, and a dedicated champion of women and children. Also, look who was stumping for her: Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, two of the loudest and clearest voices against the Wall Street banksters who caused the 2008 crash. The only solace I can take is our newly elected Senators who are women of color. I for one could totally get behind a Duckworth for President campaign. That woman is bad ass!

That's why it infuriates me when people wonder why so many of us are so terrified at the prospect of an Coral Caligula presidency.

Our government is being overrun with vermin, all with their own agendas.

[ClareWalks]

I need a place to vent a bit. I know a girl who didn't really pay attention to the election. She didn't know much about Trump or Clinton or their viewpoints - she just wasn't paying attention. That's fine. But now she is chiming in on "the ugliness and fingerpointing" and saying "it has to stop, be the change you wanna see," blah blah blah. It's just annoying to me, because she has no clue why people are upset and all she knows is that it's annoying to her to have to read about it now. 

[Snarklepuss]

47 minutes ago, windsprints said:

I did a quick check (I hope I didn't miss any) and the Republican control also existed in 1928-1931, 1953-1954 and 2003-2006. The Supreme Court also already leans Republican and Trump will be nominating to fill the open seat.

Thank you - And somehow the country didn't go to hell in a handbasket, at least from 2003-2006 in recent memory anyway (I'm not up on the history before that).  Roe v. Wade was not overturned, etc....So I still see no reason to catastrophize.  And just because the Supreme Court leans Republican doesn't mean all of them will want to repeal things like this either.

2 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Agreed. My reasoning for "Trump not helping the little guy" is that he refused to pay his contractors for work they did. Nothing to do with him being rich and white.

I don't know what his reasoning was on that but even if that was the case I think he may still be able to help the little guy if he can manage to find a way to keep jobs in the US.  I am specifically concerned about Carrier, which is still determined to move to Mexico.  I worked for another division of UTC from 2001-2009 and keep in touch with people there so if he doesn't find a way to keep them here I will find more reasons to wonder about who he wants to help.

[ClareWalks]

Just now, Snarklepuss said:

I think he may still be able to help the little guy if he can manage to find a way to keep jobs in the US.

I really hope you're right. It is also very concerning that he manufactures his own products overseas and uses Chinese steel for his buildings.

[NewDigs]

Our kitty loves to chase the laser point. But he figured out I was holding it and kept trying to look at it so had to quit playing with it. Didn't want to blind him! So back to the fish-on-a-string-on-a-stick.

Poor little guy. But I gotta laugh.

[LGGirl]

Obama was not my choice when he was elected but I did give him a chance.  I felt we owed him that.  The same goes for Trump.  We may not agree with his politics but we should all give him the benefit of the doubt and support him.  It's better for the country.  All this divisiveness, doom and gloom doesn't help our country or ourselves.  

[Snarklepuss]

3 minutes ago, LGGirl said:

Obama was not my choice when he was elected but I did give him a chance.  I felt we owed him that.  The same goes for Trump.  We may not agree with his politics but we should all give him the benefit of the doubt and support him.  It's better for the country.  All this divisiveness, doom and gloom doesn't help our country or ourselves.  

Thank you, that's my point entirely too.  I also think it's just good gamesmanship to shake hands with the winner and try to keep an open mind until he's had a chance to prove himself.  My theory is that he's a pragmatist/utilitarian and actually will tend towards the middle on a lot of issues, despite taking more of a hard line in his campaign.  And screw what his cabinet wants, he's the one they have to please.

[clb1016]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how a man who never in his 70 years had his name associated with any cause, issue, political policy or charity, but rather has spent his life promoting only himself and his brand--and apparently instilled the same (lack of) values in his children--all of a sudden realized that his true purpose in life was to help those who are struggling in our society.

[NewDigs]

I feel like I'm coming out of some kind of haze. I don't feel the desperation and despondence of previous days. 

I'm heartened by the protest marches. 

And now we will hear about a movement other than "Trump's Great Movement".

ew

[EyewatchTV211]

Anyone who thinks Pence is a harmless, typical politician has clearly not done anything to inform themselves about him. He is TRULY scary. And the people he is suggesting for his cabinet who have previously been the usual Republican politicians may have been that way in the past, but they have shown that they have gone in scary, unprecedented directions while they have supported Trump. And those who say there are a lot of Republicans who hate Trump who will oppose him in the House and Senate. I think that's true for them on the inside. But I think they are still happy that the "GOP" actually won this thing and will do all they can to force Trump's hand towards their agenda. In that picture of Ryan and Trump, Ryan looked much happier than Trump did. 

Meanwhile, I'm back to being extremely pissed off regarding the Supreme Court pick. Constitutionally, President Obama should be the one picking the replacement. The Senate has been acting unconstitutionally. I don't know law as others here do, but usually things can be done when something is unconstitutional. And the Republicans' claims that it should be chosen by whoever the people choose - well Trump may be the country's president, the majority of people did NOT choose him. So maybe they should support something else not in the Constitution - the person who isn't president but who had the most popular votes gets to choose! Why not? Not any crazier and childish than what they always do.

Meanwhile, while I've enjoyed the support I've gotten from commiserating here, I think I'm out for now to find other support networks and other things to do. This place is no longer a "post-election anxiety support thread" for me when I have to justify my feelings and provide ignored proof and facts, as usual, to support my thoughts. 

[Chicken Wing]

9 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how a man who never in his 70 years had his name associated with any cause, issue, political policy or charity, but rather has spent his life promoting only himself and his brand--and apparently instilled the same (lack of) values in his children--all of a sudden realized that his true purpose in life was to help those who are struggling in our society.

Trump's only purpose in life is to be a winner, and being a winner is the only thing that "makes" someone. It's what he knows. It's how his father groomed him to think of himself, and others. Winning validates his existence, and his decision to run for president served no purpose other than to be his greatest validation of them all. He doesn't actually care about any of the things he's said on the trail. He doesn't give a shit about any of the people who believed he would actually improve their lives. He just wants to be the one who says "I did it."

Edited November 12, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[Deanie87]

34 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Agreed. My reasoning for "Trump not helping the little guy" is that he refused to pay his contractors for work they did. Nothing to do with him being rich and white.

Have there been any examples, anywhere, at any time in his life that Trump has helped anyone ever, if it didn't also benefit him?  I am truly asking.  He claims that he has given millions away to charity, but a very dogged reporter looking for signs of it, never found it.  His foundation certainly wasn't legit, nor was his University.  Most of the other candidates, Democrat and Republican, have some kind of charitable giving, activism, platforms, etc. somewhere on their resume, but I don't think I've seen anything resembling that on Trump's.  But, yeah, maybe he will become a new person once he's in office.

[windsprints]

Quote

I think he may still be able to help the little guy if he can manage to find a way to keep jobs in the US

Let's hope. Its a wait and see for me.  While my reading about his tax plans have been limited (and I'm no expert) they may provide some small benefits to the little guy while providing big benefits to the top 1%.  Here's a quote but the same principal appears in many articles all over the internet, from many different news sources:

Quote

the biggest beneficiaries by far are the very wealthy. Estimates from the Tax Policy Center and the Tax Foundation estimate that the top 1 percent of income households would see their after-tax incomes rise by 10.2 to 13 percent under Trump’s plan, while “middle income” households -- those from the 40th to the 60th percentile -- would see an increase of 1.3 to 1.8 percent.

If it ends up similar someone making $40000 would gain $800 if the percentage was as high as 2%. Someone making $4,000,000 would gain $520,000 if the percentage was as high as 13%.  There are so many other factors that may help the little guy but I strongly believe he'll be favoring the wealthy.

Quote

And just because the Supreme Court leans Republican doesn't mean all of them will want to repeal things like this either.

It doesn't mean they won't either. The point for me is that they can and its been talked about during the campaign. I get he's a liar but he said several times he would repeal Roe v Wade.  His VP certainly supports that as do others he is appointing. I feel bad being morbid but there's 2 liberal judges who are quite old and I am concerned about those seats being lost during the Trump presidency too. 

I think there was plenty wrong during the 2003-2006 period but all of that is off topic but I will say Donald Trump is nothing like George W. Bush. I cannot recall ever hearing GW speak about minorities or women as Trump does, mock the disabled, mock a well known Republican for being a POW, etc. 

ETA: 

Quote

Have there been any examples, anywhere, at any time in his life that Trump has helped anyone ever, if it didn't also benefit him?  I am truly asking.  He claims that he has given millions away to charity, but a very dogged reporter looking for signs of it, never found it.  His foundation certainly wasn't legit, nor was his University.  Most of the other candidates, Democrat and Republican, have some kind of charitable giving, activism, platforms, etc. somewhere on their resume, but I don't think I've seen anything resembling that on Trump's.  But, yeah, maybe he will become a new person once he's in office.

This x 10000

Edited November 12, 2016 by windsprints

[glowlights]

3 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I don't worry that much about the Pence scenario because it's pretty remote, plus he seems like a reasonable sort, not one who would want to destroy people's freedoms. 

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic? (sorry, my humor gauge is a bit wonky this week)

This thread has been moving quickly so apologies if this has already been posted, but for those who are looking to show support for others who are in fear after this election, a small and inexpensive thing you can do is wear a safety pin when out in public to signal that you are an ally and you are someone who is safe to approach if they need help or just a friendly face:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/safety-pin-trump-brexit_us_58251b53e4b0c4b63b0c11a9

[Pixel]

I agree with the notion that Pence is far more dangerous than Trump. At this point, let's just hope nothing happens to Trump.

[SoSueMe]

15 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Have there been any examples, anywhere, at any time in his life that Trump has helped anyone ever, if it didn't also benefit him?  I am truly asking.  He claims that he has given millions away to charity, but a very dogged reporter looking for signs of it, never found it.  His foundation certainly wasn't legit, nor was his University.  Most of the other candidates, Democrat and Republican, have some kind of charitable giving, activism, platforms, etc. somewhere on their resume, but I don't think I've seen anything resembling that on Trump's.  But, yeah, maybe he will become a new person once he's in office.

The only thing that comes to mind is some internet story about granting the use of his plane for a woman with a sick child as transport to a specialty hospital. I don't even know if it's true (I doubt it). If true, I'm sure that it was publicized well enough to make it worth his while for PR purposes.

No doubt in my mind that Donald is always Donald's top priority, I've even seen quotes where his financial interests are listed ahead of his kids. 

[Padma]

28 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Have there been any examples, anywhere, at any time in his life that Trump has helped anyone ever, if it didn't also benefit him?  I am truly asking.  He claims that he has given millions away to charity, but a very dogged reporter looking for signs of it, never found it.  His foundation certainly wasn't legit, nor was his University.  Most of the other candidates, Democrat and Republican, have some kind of charitable giving, activism, platforms, etc. somewhere on their resume, but I don't think I've seen anything resembling that on Trump's.  But, yeah, maybe he will become a new person once he's in office.

That's a great, fair question. It's certainly not charity. He even lied that he had donated money to the 9/11 fund (as he lied about other charities and "donating millions and millions to our vets". Nope). There IS a much reprinted story in reputable biographies that he once met a boy who was ill and wrote him a check (I think for $1k) and told him "Go get whatever you want." That's the best I've got.

On the other hand, when his longtime lawyer Roy Cohn (whom Trump never paid because they were "friends") was dying of AIDS, Trump sent him a bill for the month or so he spent recuperating in one of Trump's properties. And he said he had visited Ryan White (boy dying from AIDS) and paid his medical bill. White's mother said, "He came by once and stayed five minutes but didn't pay for anything."

He has the means to help people but it doesn't appear to interest him.  And I don't think that "flew a boy to a hospital' story is true any more than the Ryan White one was. Nor was the one Hannity told recently about Trump flying the vets in Florida on his plane to a hospital. His plane was used, but he billed the govt full price for it.

Any thoughts on this?

Safety pin to symbolize solidarity with people and groups Trump opposes  I don't usually go for these things, but I kind of like this one. Also that it is nothing commercial to buy--not even a ribbon or wristband--just something inexpensive and useful that most people already have at home.

ETA: Just saw glowlights has posted something about this above as I was editing. Fast moving thread indeed!

Edited November 12, 2016 by Padma

[hoosier80]

2 hours ago, KIMBERLYANN11 said:

I know I'm late to the party - but I just want to address this.  I live in Michigan  (and was born in Pennsylvania)  The people that I know personally who voted for Trump aren't necessarily bigots, but they are almost to a person - stupid.

I'm in Ohio.  Same stupidity I see here.  One co-worker, her "man" was Cruz.  Asked her why.  No real reasons.  Her husband I think makes the decisions in the household.  Same person who told me with a straight face that all dogs come from some sort of puppy mill.  I asked if she knew what a puppy mill was.  Well........no.  I described it and she said well all breeders are like that.  No, no, they are not.  

Another person said oh I have friends who are Pro Trump and some are never Trump.  I just don't know.  Now this person can quote sports statistics like no one's business, but couldn't do a bit of fact checking on their own to determine which candidate they should choose.  Then said well, he's a businessman - yes, but do you know all of his accomplishments, failures, the details?  Nope.  Then I heard about the emails.  And to which, I said nothing was proven as criminal.  Really?  We have a lot of folks who only hear the 20 second sound bytes, if that, and that is what they go with forever.  No further reading or curiosity.  None.   Critical thinking and in depth discussion seem to have been lost along the way.

I think a lot of it is, well my life right now sucks, so I want something to change.  Screw whatever else, he's different, he's an outsider.  Except it sounds like he's bringing in all the same old crowd.  What happened to his bringing in the very best, the very best in every field?  I don't see that now.  It's the same folks, give or take a few.  

I'm not crying or huddling under the covers.  I'm angry now and MOTIVATED.  But I'm not in one of the groups that were called names (other than women in general), so I'm not in fear for my life (right now).  I am fearful for those groups, but I'm not going to be the neighbor who turns their head as they're hauled off into the train car or have their rights violated.  Nope.  Make noise.  Make lots of noise.  Hound your local representatives.  They have to run every 2 years so their asses are constantly on the firing line.  They will be most receptive as they want to retain their jobs.  

One thing that is disturbing is that the Trump "kids" will run the businesses.  And they're also his closest confidantes.  The business should be in a blind trust, period.  Without that, there's so much room for conflict of interest.  Let's enact laws a, b, c, d, oh want what do you know, it benefits Trump Inc.    I did see where Michael Moore (who it turns out had more insight than all of the pundits), is saying he won't last a full term due to breaking some sort of law.  He said not intentionally, but he's not savvy enough or detail oriented enough to know what he can and cannot do.  I still think quitting isn't out line.  He could find an excuse.  It'll be too much for him - the constant scrutiny and criticism.

[NewDigs]

30 minutes ago, VMepicgrl said:

Meanwhile, while I've enjoyed the support I've gotten from commiserating here, I think I'm out for now to find other support networks and other things to do. This place is no longer a "post-election anxiety support thread" for me when I have to justify my feelings and provide ignored proof and facts, as usual, to support my thoughts. 

Thank you. You've put it much better than I could. 

[parisprincess]

I am a strong woman. Four days out from the election, I, like most of the people on this thread, am hurting, disillusioned, and upset. I have still not gone on Facebook, and I haven't watched the news (which is all Trump, all the time); however, that doesn't mean I am living in "a bubble" nor am I a "weak" person. I am a very strong woman who feels like she's been kicked in the gut, and I need a little time to heal. Soon (when I am damned good and ready; probably after the weekend), I will once again watch the news and go to my Facebook page, and be as strong or maybe even stronger than I was before this fiasco of an election. I wouldn't go to a psychiatrist's office if I didn't need one, and I sure wouldn't come to an emotional support group page if I didn't feel the need to be around like-minded people (but that's just me).

I live in a small town in mid-Michigan (population under 40,000). This morning a friend called and asked if I had heard what happened to a local gay couple. Having not seen the news lately, I went to our local paper's website and there was a picture of a note that had been left in their mailbox. It said "Faggots get out. Trump Land" and the word out had a swastika in the middle of it. I've heard that these kind of things are happening, but now its happening in my own back yard.

Excuse me while I go and look for the biggest safety pin I can find.

eta:  VMEPICGRL, If I could, I'd give you a thousand likes because I feel the same way.

Edited November 12, 2016 by parisprincess

[windsprints]

Trump let people sit out the storm in the lobby of his building and sent some bottled water to Long Island after hurricane Sandy.  Right after he slammed Obama for visiting the area and standing in a puddle to get votes. He claimed he made a donation for Sandy relief but to the best of my knowledge no one was ever able to verify it. 

[ClareWalks]

I am wearing a safety pin today. Let the ladies at the beauty salon try to call me a whiner. (They won't. I am tall and terrifying.)

[NewDigs]

Oh gosh, @parisprincess, I'm so sorry.

It now seems like the better I feel and the higher I poke my ahead above the fray there's someone ready to gloat or neener-neener me. 

I don't expect much. Just some common courtesy. 

I need a bigger safety pin. 

[potatoradio]

I vent my worst fears and anxiety here as a coping mechanism. Doesn't mean I don't leave the house or continue with my life. It means I find solace in expressing my worst fears and anxieties and find comfort knowing others feel the same.

I've been mocked and derided for being "too emotional" my whole life. Many times, people try to "help" by telling me that my fears aren't valid or that I need to write up an action list or change my 'tude. I used to think something was wrong with me, that I was a lesser person because I just couldn't get with the program. Then, one professor I had whose son had died from brain cancer told me, after reading a very emotional essay I wrote, that it took a great deal of bravery to feel things. It takes feeling loss and horror to the core of your being to be empathetic and its one of those most painful and difficult things to do. And yet, she said the only way she got through the loss of her son most days was talking to people who *feel* and who listened. 

Doesn't mean we're not going to kick some arse at some point, but some people simply feel things very deeply and indeed "go to ground" when the catastrophic happens. We'll come out when we're ready. No worries.

I really do want to be wrong about my worst fears. I really do. If I am, I will shout from the rooftops that I was wrong. 

But I'm seeing no signs of being wrong. The best I'm seeing is that "maybe Trump won't completely be a fool or a total neocon agenda will have some hurdles." Sorry, that doesn't bring much comfort.

What would help? If Trump had the stones to hold a presser and say, "OK, I exaggerated during my campaign. I didn't mean for anyone to think it was OK to start beating up and harassing minorities. Stop it. Stop it now. I want to get to work on what most of us can agree on, which is that we need jobs and pay increases, so I'm going to work with Democrats and Republicans on infrastructure and trade deals with China first."

But instead, he's appointing a bunch of ghouls to the cabinet and looking bored and creating a whole lot of uncertainty. 

That's not helping. At all. 

[glowlights]

7 minutes ago, Padma said:

Safety pin to symbolize solidarity with people and groups Trump opposes  I don't usually go for these things, but I kind of like this one. Also that it is nothing commercial to buy--not even a ribbon or wristband--just something inexpensive and useful that most people already have at home.

Me neither, but since this has a practical purpose as opposed to just decoration, I'm in. When women in Silicon Valley of all places are expressing worry about going out wearing their hijab, it's time to start giving people an easy signal that you are okay to approach. I'll walk with someone if they are nervous or let them sit with me at a table. No sweat.

BTW on Amazon you can buy large safety pins in sets of four. As opposed to those packs of 100. Unless you want to give them out to others, in which case 100 pins for eight bucks sounds like a deal! lol

[Padma]

I don't think Pence is more dangerous than Trump.  Pence is bad and dangerous, but I've never heard anyone describe him as a sociopath without a shred of empathy. I am not invested in Trump staying president and am hoping that--homebody that he is--he will be so miserable living in the White House that he will soon resign (for health reasons--maybe Melania's as I don't think his pride would let him claim his own weakness was the reason).

Trump Tower would be a nightmare for the SS to secure. The closest place for a helicopter to land is Central Park which they said was "unacceptable".  I don't think he'll be spending much time in Trump Tower as president--which, I admit, makes me happy. (I imagine Mar-a-lago would be easier--except that he's working it as a members-only resort, so hardly the secluded place the SS would be looking for for the president's vacation home.

Plus, in Trump Tower, with his office below and their 20000 sq foot triplex he's not cooped up all day and night with Melania and Baron. Now he'll be interacting with them all the time, plus not living "in the lap of luxury" as president. hahahaha.

[crayon78]

2 hours ago, Sandman87 said:

On the PBS Newshour last night, Mark Shields quoted someone who nailed it pretty well (paraphrasing): "Trump's opponents took him literally but not seriously. Trumps supporters took him seriously but not literally."

I guess that's my problem. I have always taken him both seriously and literally. I've mentioned to people since before he won the primary how horrible it could be with him in power. Part of it is him being in power and all the things that can come from the top down with power unchecked (which I still believe it is - as very few Republicans were willing to stand against him; even in his worst insults against American citizens, few repudiated him or withdrew endorsements). But in many ways, what frightens me more than Trump the man himself is what his campaign has done, directly or indirectly, with respect to treatment of marginalized groups in our society - women, minorities, LGBTQ, disabled, etc. It's only gotten worse as people have become more and more emboldened by his win, as if it legitimizes them to bully others that way or incite violence in his name. And he's done absolutely nothing to discourage or dissuade people from doing those things. Silence condones.

Very real things are happening to people in the wake of this election, especially people who look like me, who were seen as "others" and "not Americans" well before Trump ever came into the picture. It has only intensified. (And there are videos and non-partisan news sites detailing this, not just things friends have told me about personal experiences - which they have.) Trump's encouragement of the hateful rhetoric during his campaign and refusal to say anything against it now just reinforces for me that it will not be an administration that cares about all Americans. And when my personal safety (and that of others) is at risk, that's something I'm going to be vigilant about, and it's hard to just "wait and see." He has a prime opportunity now to make good on what he said on day 1 - that he wants to be president for all Americans - and try to stop this. He hasn't. So while I respect that you believe that we should give him a chance, not panic, and just see what next year brings, please forgive me if I'm a little more pessimistic about it based on how the upcoming administration is affecting people like me now, before they've even officially taken the reins.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I'm just not panicking.  I don't get the panicking at scenarios that are 2nd and 3rd degree "what ifs". 

I understand not wanting actual panic since that’s never a good thing, but it seems like the impulse with Trump from the beginning has been to normalize him when he was not normal and it’s not good to just keep doing it. he’s already broken so many rules that people in the past would have just said nobody would do, I think it’s completely reasonable and smart to be in an alert, defensive position here rather than just waiting and seeing. Trump’s not speaking out against the hate crimes and Klan displays going on further normalizes it, imo.

Also, while the world certainly didn’t end with George W. Bush he did a hell of a lot of damage in his time in office. Yes we’ve survived terrible presidents, but many people didn’t. We’ve had presidents that ordered genocide, after all. No, I’m not suggesting that Trump’s going to order that and I know the country is a different place now than it was when Andrew Jackson was president, but a lot of damage can still be done—and once it’s done it’s the new normal. (There are millions of Native Americans not alive today thanks to AJ, for instance.)

2 hours ago, callmebetty said:

Exactly .  The days are starting to blur but I don't think the protest marches started until Thursday or were they on Wednesday ? If Thursday then people took a day to process and then theyou took action . 

The protests started Wednesday. I think that’s one reason Trump claimed they “couldn’t have been spontaneous.” He apparently thought it would take lots of planning and hiring of “professional protestors” beforehand rather than simply putting up things online and thousands eager to show up.

28 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Have there been any examples, anywhere, at any time in his life that Trump has helped anyone ever, if it didn't also benefit him?  I am truly asking.  He claims that he has given millions away to charity, but a very dogged reporter looking for signs of it, never found it.  His foundation certainly wasn't legit, nor was his University.

 

Nope. I have a friend who worked with an AIDS charity in the early 90s. Donald invited himself (with Marla then) to a dinner where he would be the guest of honor, presumably for the optics. He not only gave no money to the charity, he didn’t even offer a venue or anything like that. The charity lost money on the event and Donald gave nothing. He’s also apparently shown up and seated himself at the donor table of charities so it looks like he gave money when he didn’t. Meanwhile he seems to have donated to Pam Bondi to bribe her and give her a place in his cabinet—just draining that corruption swamp!

His University preyed on exactly the kind of people he claims to help. The thing that gets me is his refusing to pay people who work for him. To me that seems like a thing that would automatically make him the devil to working people, but they’re willing to believe it was the worker’s fault or it was a lie—or they just don’t know about it. His spokespeople have tried to claim his employees are a form of charity, which seems to be an attitude that’s become really common on the right. Rich people are “job creators” and people who work for them are their charity cases and should be grateful for jobs created for them, as opposed to workers who get respect for performing a necessary task. That attitude alone, to me, always signals a complete contempt for the worker (I see it at my own office too) but some workers even buy into it. It reminds me of all the conservative women voting for Trump—it seems like they think showing loyalty and debasing themselves to the boss is the smart thing to do.