S03.E10: The After Show

[BitterApple]

I agree that something legitimately bad happened to Jill in Central America, and the terms of their agreement with SOS prevent them from talking about it. Even though Jill has always been needy and immature, she's one crying fit away from needing a padded room. Whatever she's going through is very real. It seems beyond a typical sheltered Fundie acting like a drama queen because they can't handle the real world. I think Derick and Jill are in a bad place, marriage-wise. He likely feels suffocated living in close proximity to his in-laws, and Jill likely feels suffocated being stuck inside a cinderblock house 24/7. Whether they stay in Springdale or go back to Danger America, half the equation is going to be miserable and frustrated. Not exactly a great dynamic for baby making, which is maybe why Jill is struggling to get knocked up again.

[toodles]

A baby will fix everything!!!!!  Never mind that Jill is completely overwhelmed with life at this point.  If she can just get pregnant, she can be the extra special Jilly Muffin again.  Life will be good and everyone will like her again.  Another child to raise will just be another kid in the Duggar pack so that won't be a problem at at all.  All her problems will just disappear because she has a bun in the oven for God's Army.  

Yeah, that's the ticket.  Because this sort of life plan worked so well for her parents.  Just ask the Mom and Dad that have adults that can't support themselves, think for themselves or deal with life outside the compound in any way, shape or form.  

[Churchhoney]

58 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Whether they stay in Springdale or go back to Danger America, half the equation is going to be miserable and frustrated. Not exactly a great dynamic for baby making, which is maybe why Jill is struggling to get knocked up again.

Which I guess proves that every cloud has a silver lining.

[Whyyouneedaname]

5 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

Imo, I do not think Derick should be taking all the blame for what is going on with Jill. Yes, he should have seen the writing on the wall when he was courting her, but to blame him for the way Jill was and is not going to help either one of them out. If Jill has a serious mental illness, she needs to admit something is wrong and get the help. Derick should be supportive, but sadly he is her enabler in a way. In fact, the whole family is her enabler especially the older kids. I did not see one of her siblings reaching out and giving her support when she was talking about the fallen shower curtain. Yes, Jessa said she heard gunfire, but I do not see her statement as being supportive. Derick does not seem to happy with his life right now. He has certainly bitten off more than he can chew. I often wonder if Jill went along with Derick's dreams of being in another country saving the heathens because she wanted to keep her claws in him.. He was the first guy to show her attention, and she was a happy camper. And the worse part of it is, Izzy is paying the price for his parent's mistakes.

Derek said on the Guy's guide to Courting episode "you should be upfront and honest, transparent in your intentions so that no one is confused or brokenhearted."  If he was honest I don't think he would agree this applied on her part, what he thought he was getting and what he got are definitely like buying a lemon of a car with a nice paint job that lasted about 6 months. 

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, toodles said:

A baby will fix everything!!!!!  Never mind that Jill is completely overwhelmed with life at this point.  If she can just get pregnant, she can be the extra special Jilly Muffin again.  Life will be good and everyone will like her again.  Another child to raise will just be another kid in the Duggar pack so that won't be a problem at at all.  All her problems will just disappear because she has a bun in the oven for God's Army.  

Yeah, that's the ticket.  Because this sort of life plan worked so well for her parents.  Just ask the Mom and Dad that have adults that can't support themselves, think for themselves or deal with life outside the compound in any way, shape or form.  

From the Duggar's perspective, it did all work out well for them. Michelle didn't have a heart for children and had a meltdown in the laundry room and then they solved all their problems by turning to Gothardism. It's what got them the TV show that made their current life possible. All JB and Michelle had to do was turn over their life totally to the will of God and they were rewarded. Derrick and Jill may be following the same script - they are just being tested now but if they continue on the path that God choose for them everything will work out. 

Or, perhaps whatever "scary" thing that (supposedly) happened in Danger America was actually a sign from God to get out of Dodge. Why do they always interpret these things as a test of faith instead of God trying to give them a big ol' hint? Probably because their interpretation makes them seem all the more super special. Is there anything they do that isn't driven by ego?

[MarysWetBar]

2 hours ago, 88Keys said:

I disagree- it actually seems very typical for people who truly have PTSD or anxiety.  The question is what happened to Jill tha caused her to have PTSD?  Or has she had anxiety for years now?  

Girls can't go to ALERT.  It's a sorta-military training thing for boys.

I'm aware of that...my point was too subtle and likely missed. 

[Natalie68]

On 10/26/2016 at 5:36 AM, Farmfam said:

I don't know how to quote multiple people. Jill is still crying about it. Maybe it had just happened before they left, and filmed a week after return and the time between the incidence and filming wasn't long. I don't know. I just find it cruel to make fun of someone that was obviously traumatized by a situation (NOT a shower curtain, but the thought that it was a shattered window and fear for her and Israels safety). And I don't know exactly where in CA they are. From experience with a missions trip in Nicaragua, we were told that some Americans really stand out and can be targets for crime. We were not to walk alone without natives. So yes, CA is dangerous. More dangerous than the US? yes, some places. To each their own. I don't want to argue, I just wanted to give insight on another opinion based on what I watched. 

I think its sad she is still very upset about it.  Her reaction highlights how unprepared she is for real life and perhaps she should have started smaller.  Like maybe somewhere in Arkansas.   IF Danger America is so well, dangerous, and Americans are regularly and routinely warned, then WHY on earth are you, as a semi famous person with cameras occasionally in tow, going there?  Especially if you don't have the stones to handle it without freaking out?  I can see getting freaked and then laughing over it with the spouse when you find out its not someone breaking in but a falling shower curtain brings you to tears means you are quite fragile.  As in don't leave her alone fragile.  

[BetyBee]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Bingo. And I doubt that Derick is well placed to grasp the implications of this, since nobody who had a fairly normal upbringing seems to be.

In a family like the Duggars, weakness, wants, needs, anything on that order on the part of a child is seen as an opportunity to pounce by the Head Bitches in Charge, whoever they are in the given situation. And it doesn't matter if the weakened person is a "pet." Pets are there to be lorded over, just like everybody else.

Weaknesses, wants, needs, emotions are just opportunities for the HBIC to get more power over you, manipulate and humiliate you,, and so on. And this fact is not lost on the rest of the underlings. Who will do whatever they can to avoid being implicated in your exposed weaknessess and, in many cases, will also participate in the attacks, at least in subtle ways. So Jill's not going to get any -- and I do mean any -- actual support from anyone in her family for her problems. She may get some false and phony support, poisoned with putdowns of some kind. But real help -- none.

So it's all on Derick. And I can't imagine what he could do except get a job out of state, pack up his family, move there, convince Jill that she must get therapy from real counselors, and not answer the phone or the email. Of course, given who he is, who she is, and how they got together, this is virtually impossible. They're screwed.

This X 100!  I know this family dynamic from my own large (not Duggar large, but big enough) family.  The reality in my family is like being in high school your whole life.  There have been times when I love being part of a big family, but every so often the gossip, the favorites, the piling on at the first sign of weakness, gets old.  And I'm in my 60s!

How I wish Derrick would take her away to that out of state (not country!) job and get therapy for her  That they would limit their family size and go fundie-lite.  Maybe even send the kids to a bricks and mortar school!  Imagine that!

[Natalie68]

23 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

I find it interesting Derick mentioned isolation when it comes to what they were supposedly doing in Central America. Jill was isolated from the real world long before Derick came into the picture. Jill was allowed only to be around her kind of people. She was clinging to Derick big time while he was working at Wally World. He should have saw the writing on the wall before he went into courtship with Jill. It was interesting to see Jill and Derick together with the other couples because they both seem very uncomfortable and not happy to be there. I also watched their reaction to Izzy coming into the room with Ben and Jessa's reaction to Spurge coming into the room. Spurge was getting the love and Izzy was an after thought to Jill and Derick. I also thought it was interesting when Jessa mention the fact Izzy does not like to share things with Spurge, and Derick was saying they were working on it. Imo, I am not seeing a happy marriage and family.

I worked with a man whose new wife was VERY scared to be home alone.  She came to work with him everyday.  He was a police officer so my guess is she hung around the station while he was out doing police things.  It really bothered his coworkers and somehow he eventually got her to stay home.  She is still a little off and clingy but much better.  

Jill's life has taken a giant turn from favorite daughter who is never alone (and was expected to forgive the pervy brother) to wife of the dancing boy and mom to the big white baby.  She has never been Just Jill.  Jill who likes XYZ.  Jill who thinks XYZ.  As I have said before (and many others) she went from virgin to kissing and sex in a matter of hours.  Then a few weeks later she's pregnant.  She is the sister who bought the whole enchilada in regards to Jim Bobs teachings and if her mom and dad were happy why isn't she?  Oh yeah, another baby will solve that problem (until its born and she realizes the funk is still there).  She just needs to pray harder (for a qualified mental health professional to help her on her journey).

As snarky and as unlikable Jessa is she at least seems to be ok with saying exactly whats on her mind.  That will serve her well rather than being the yes girl to the headship.  Sometimes (or many) the helpmeet has better ideas than the headship :).  

[BunnyBlueBrown]

Jessa is doing good because.....BABY

Jill is not doing good because....NO BABY

Mystery solved.

[Leigh3]

Have some questions -

Someone mentioned "I get the Josiah vibe from her." regarding Joy. What does this mean?   I expect the ability to care for one's self does down with each subsequent child. Only saving grace in the family is Jana and I think John David. These two know whats up. As much as I would like to see them run away as fast as they can I don't see them leaving the others behind to their awful parents.

Also what is blanket-trained regarding Michelle and the kids?

Lastly what does TTH mean?  As much as I follow this forum you'd think I know

Thanks all!

[saylubee]

5 minutes ago, Leigh3 said:

Have some questions -

Someone mentioned "I get the Josiah vibe from her." regarding Joy. What does this mean?   I expect the ability to care for one's self does down with each subsequent child. Only saving grace in the family is Jana and I think John David. These two know whats up. As much as I would like to see them run away as fast as they can I don't see them leaving the others behind to their awful parents.

Also what is blanket-trained regarding Michelle and the kids?

Lastly what does TTH mean?  As much as I follow this forum you'd think I know

Thanks all!

Some people think Josiah is gay.  Some people think Joy could possibly be a lesbian.  I don't necessarily have a strong opinion either way.  Joy was the only daughter in a cluster of boys so honestly I think she tends to have a more tomboy personality then the older girls.

Michelle and Jim Bob followed (all but officially confirmed IIRC) the Pearl belief that toddlers should have a blanket to play quietly on and to explore on.  If the toddler reaches or crawls outside the confines of the blanket, they are spanked with a wooden spoon, rod, or whatever inflicts pain to correct the behavior.  The older kids were raised with this method.  The younger ones weren't.  It doesn't appear that the grandkids are being raised with such techniques.

TTH = Tinker Toy House or Tator Tot House.  Both refer to the Duggar compound and tend to be used interchangeably around here.  Tinker Toy House is a phrase used on the show since their house is some kind of manufactured set that only needed to be put together on site.  It's not built like a normal house from the ground up.  Tator Tot House comes from the famed Duggar Tator Tot casserole that was featured a bunch during the early episodes.

[Love2dance]

4 hours ago, MarysWetBar said:

I'm aware of that...my point was too subtle and likely missed. 

I got it.  ;)

ETA:   Oops. Bad timing. Before Saytura's post above.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Love2dance

[88Keys]

It kind of bothers me that people think Joy may be a lesbian just because she was a bit of a tomboy.  It also bothers me that Joy's family thought it was important to work the tomboyish-ness out of her when she was younger, and that she now thinks her purpose in life is to help her mom raise more kids.   I don't know....I find it hard to get a read on who Joy really is.  And that's sad.

Edited October 28, 2016 by 88Keys

[OSM Mom]

One more thing to add to that stupid questionnaire .  

 

Are you willing to allow your wife to give birth on camera including and up to birthing on the toilet? 

[OpieTaylor]

10 hours ago, toodles said:

A baby will fix everything!!!!!  Never mind that Jill is completely overwhelmed with life at this point.  If she can just get pregnant, she can be the extra special Jilly Muffin again.  Life will be good and everyone will like her again.  Another child to raise will just be another kid in the Duggar pack so that won't be a problem at at all.  All her problems will just disappear because she has a bun in the oven for God's Army.  

Yeah, that's the ticket.  Because this sort of life plan worked so well for her parents.  Just ask the Mom and Dad that have adults that can't support themselves, think for themselves or deal with life outside the compound in any way, shape or form.  

Mystery solved.

I think Jill not being pregnant again is a big part of her depression and jealousy and confusion. They've all been taught that babies are blessings from God and Jill is bewildered why God isn't blessing her. After all, she is the one who is sacrificing and suffering for the Lord. Like others here have said, Jill bought hook, line and sinker Boob and Mechelle's version of what life should be, and so far it's not happening for her. She imagined the happily-ever-after life she would lead as the great, admired Christian leader. But now she may be confused why the heathen Catholics aren't embracing her and Derick's message en masse. And her moment as the fairy-tale princess (courting, engaged, newlywed and pregnant) was so short. For a few minutes there, she was the special daughter that had found the "one God had for her," but Jessa came in right behind her and seems to be doing it better. And now Jessa's bff, Jinger, is the new fairy-tale princess, and Jessa is right there participating in it all. I suspect along with everything else Jill is dealing with, she's feeling rejected on multiple levels.

It was interesting when Jill was telling her story of the dangers that she implied that the threat was to her and Izzy being home alone on that one night a week, rather than to Derick being out in the community. Isn't there someone on the SOS compound that can come over and hang with Jill on those evenings? Or how come Jill and Izzy aren't going with Derick to wherever he's preaching on those nights? (Real quick personal note: my husband, children and I moved 1200 miles away from our families when our kids were very young, and it took me about 3 years to really adapt to our new city/state. We visited our family a lot, and they visited us a lot, and frequent phone calls, and in my mind the former city/state were home. I was a SAHM and introverted so was pretty isolated - it took my kids starting school and me getting involved with school activities and meeting other parents there to finally make me feel at home in our new home. But I didn't get depressed during any of those transition years, thankfully. However, I understand that it's hard to make insta-friends in a new environment and Jill was accustomed to having so many people around that she'd known all her life. I'm sure she's very lonely.)

Meanwhile, on the episode - why did lazy-ass Jessa get to sit on the couch the whole time, while the other couples had to alternate? And Jana and Joy never got to sit in front at all?  Throughout the season, Jessa has this way of stating things that irks me - she smiles big while stating how wonderful one of the Duggars is for some-such reason and then nods her head once strongly as she finishes - to put a period on it. 

[Churchhoney]

8 hours ago, 88Keys said:

.I find it hard to get a read on who Joy really is.  And that's sad.

It sure is. And the worst thing is that Joy probably finds it really hard to get a read on it, either. Just like her siblings.

I expect that JB and M discourage getting those reads because if you got one you might stop being absolutely malleable and 100 percent available to be whatever they want you to be for their convenience at the moment.....Oh, excuse me -- whatever God wants you to be. Also sad how the Duggar parents confuse themselves with God.

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, 88Keys said:

It kind of bothers me that people think Joy may be a lesbian just because she was a bit of a tomboy.  It also bothers me that Joy's family thought it was important to work the tomboyish-ness out of her when she was younger, and that she now thinks her purpose in life is to help her mom raise more kids.   I don't know....I find it hard to get a read on who Joy really is.  And that's sad.

Lots of people think many of the kids may be heterosexual, too.

[lulu69]

5 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Meanwhile, on the episode - why did lazy-ass Jessa get to sit on the couch the whole time, while the other couples had to alternate? And Jana and Joy never got to sit in front at all? 

Because Jessa is married & pregnant w/another one of God's soldiers, therefore, she's the only one that matters.

[Vandy10]

18 hours ago, Saytura said:

Right before Jill talked about the shower rack falling, Derick mumbled something to the effect of, "We don't talk about the specifics of what happens because it doesn't help the ministry." As others, I highly suspect something else happened but the contract with SOS prevents them from talking about it.  It doesn't look so good to college-age "missionaries" and their parents that the company can't even keep Jill, Derick & Izzy safe.

Jim Bob and Michelle had an impromptu visit in February, I think, where they brought the AC units.  Then there was a major emphasis on doors and windows needing to be shut and locked at all times this season.  

I suspect the shower rack story was supposed to be one of those anecdotes that highlight how "scary" Danger America really is without actually talking about any one specific incident.  Only problem was Jill couldn't keep it together and laugh about it yet.

What I heard was, "...but we don't talk about that unless we're helping someone." Either way, it seems like we both got the similar impression that while Jill might've been talking about the shower incident, Derick was talking about a separate incident. Especially when he went on to say, "But in that instance it was just a shower rod." His emphasis on "that instance" implies, to me, that there was some other, more serious, incident that happened but they don't want to/can't talk about it. I really hope that no harm came to Jill while in CA. But it can be so hard to tell with these people because their sense of normal is so off. 

 

The other WTF moment for me was when JerBabe were asked about babies, and one of the others made the comment about "being pregnant by the end of the year." The pregnant comment didn't weird me out, because I'm well aware that babies are all these people care about. It was the way Jinger refused to show any reaction until she looked at Babe and saw his reaction. She just stared at him the whole time. Is she no longer allowed to have her own opinions? Oh, wait...

[Minivanessa]

I'm not surprised that the Dullards didn't come clean about their worst experience - whatever it was - in Central America. Props to those who caught Derick's mumblings. I totally believe they are sitting on the truth to keep from harming SOS Ministries' business (running those missioncation tours) and probably so they don't look like idiots for continuing to shill for contributions on the Dillard Family Ministries website. (I'll assume it wasn't something as harrowing as a physical assault or armed home invasion, in which case they would be truly insane to stay there, much less talk about going back.)

Maybe they didn't think it through, though. If they expect us to believe that the most awful horrible scary terrifying thing that happened was that a towel rack fell down, they can hardly object when people take that at face value and react accordingly.

[lookeyloo]

My thoughts go to a giant snake got in the house!!  I would have PTSD if that happened!!

[lulu69]

45 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

My thoughts go to a giant snake got in the house!!  I would have PTSD if that happened!!

Im with you on this lol

I'm OK with spiders & mice, but one tiny snake and I'm outta there......

Edited October 28, 2016 by lulu69

[yogi2014L]

46 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I'm not surprised that the Dullards didn't come clean about their worst experience - whatever it was - in Central America. Props to those who caught Derick's mumblings. I totally believe they are sitting on the truth to keep from harming SOS Ministries' business (running those missioncation tours) and probably so they don't look like idiots for continuing to shill for contributions on the Dillard Family Ministries website. (I'll assume it wasn't something as harrowing as a physical assault or armed home invasion, in which case they would be truly insane to stay there, much less talk about going back.)

Maybe they didn't think it through, though. If they expect us to believe that the most awful horrible scary terrifying thing that happened was that a towel rack fell down, they can hardly object when people take that at face value and react accordingly.

That is a good point and i think that is probably the case.

However- my question to these Duggar idiots is  why even bring it up then? It just makes them look crazy/unable to handle life down there. Not a good look. If they are really serious about gifting down there they need to step it up and make it seem like they actually want to be there and aren't terrified 24/7. The reaction to their story is...GO HOME!

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, lookeyloo said:

My thoughts go to a giant snake got in the house!!  I would have PTSD if that happened!!

Right? I have also been thinking all along that if I were dealing with tarantulas, etc. in my house, especially with a baby crawling around, I would have totally lost my shit a long time ago. 

All along, the other kids have mentioned "danger" to Derick and Jill. I think real stuff was happening - if not to them, then at least nearby. 

My attention kept wavering during this ep. Did Jill say she has been trying to get pregnant while they were in CA??? I have been hoping they were smart enough not to risk Zika. If not, and she has been trying to no avail, I wonder if she considers that it may be the will of God that she NOT bear a Zika-affected baby. 

Criminy. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

Well. I finally got around to watching this last night.  After reading all the comments here about what a basket case Jill was, I wasn't sure what to expect.  I usually don't see as much evidence of the crazy as some here see in the various Duggars.  But, well, yeah, she is pretty much a mess.  Not mental illness level, but definitely in some real emotional and spiritual pain.  It was truly sad to witness.

But my main take away from the show was what a complete and total asshole Derrick Dillard is. 

He seemed to be just barely containing his anger and disgust.  The snide little way he said "it's nice to be here .... for a little while" or however he phrased it.  Man, what an nasty little piss ass he was.  By saying that, he was making it clear that no matter how Jill feels, they are going to return to their ridiculous little pretend missionary charade no matter what.  He's the boss, he's the headdick headship and they are going to live out his preposterous little dream and how it effects his wife and child mean nothing.  I can't get over how mad he seemed to be just under the surface.  And Jill just seemed so defeated.  At one point they show him from the side and she looks up at him and just sort of shrugged and said "yeah" or something, like she was so unhappy but so resigned to doing what Derrick wants.  I wanted to reach thought the TV and slap Derrick's retainer out of his mouth and pull Jill through the screen to safety, lol! 

I'm surprised because I thought Derrick seemed harmless enough at first and was probably a good guy. Then I saw the cat video and knew he was not the guy he tried to come across as being.  There is a nasty, mean side to him.  A "good guy" doesn't laugh about/go out of his way to harm an animal for jollies.  But last night was the closest I ever saw his nasty underbelly really come to the surface.  He was seething inside and it was all he could do to not let it break through on camera.  It left me convinced that guy must be an absolute monster to deal with behind closed doors.  

I think Derrick sees Jill as nothing but a wagon hitched to his star and he expects her to do what she is told.  Period. After all, she was sold as "having a heart for mission work" so she is not entitled to, you know, experience Derrick's version of mission life and decide she doesn't care for it.  It's too late.  She knew what she was signing up for.  She is not entitled to any slack at all, even though DERRICK KNEW he was marrying a totally sheltered innocent girl who had never been to school, never fended for herself for one single day of her life, never made a decision for herself, never really experienced anything in life beyond the end of her driveway.  She'd never woke up one morning, decided what she wanted to do all by herself, and walked out the door and did it.  She'd never been to the grocery store alone, for crap's sake!  

But by all means, Derrick, deflower the completely untouched child-woman and get her pregnant on your wedding night, learn she was molested as a child, watch her nearly die having your baby, then pack her off to some Zika- ridden foreign land where she doesn't speak the language, doesn't know a soul, and where she and her big white baby have targets with $$$ on them because they must seem like rich important Americans because they are always followed around by a camera crew.  Leave her in a sweltering, tarantula-filled house with no water while you play Missionary Superhero to a bunch of people who have been Christians for generations and think you are a moron.  Then be shitty and nasty because she is scared to death and falls apart every time she hears a noise ... because her fear is complicating your dreams.  Jill's dreams, of course, don't mean jack shit.  Which is sad because I think all she is dreaming of at this point is feeling safe.  I don't think it's too much to ask.  They are both still very young.  They have years to go live in the wilds and tame the savages and learn 'em about Jesus.  Why does it have to be NOW, today, next month?  Can Jill have a few years to grow up a little?  Develop some self-reliance and confidence?  The heathens will still be there. 

ugh I just can't with this guy ... 

Jessa's husband may be a dim bulb, but I don't think he is a totally different person off-screen who would completely dismiss Jessa's feelings and opinions the way Derrick seems to be doing to Jill. It's too soon to tell, but I don't think Jeremy would be so selfish, either.  It is a shame that Jill (who I think of as being the weakest-willed of the older girls) is the one who ended up married to such an insensitive, controlling jerk.  She is the least equipped one to handle what life has thrown her, and she has the shittiest husband in the bunch to make her life even harder.  And all she has to turn to for help is Jim Bob, who is not a lot better than Derrick.  How depressing.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[DangerousMinds]

Jeremy did say he wanted a meek woman who was willing to sacrifice . . . 

[Celia Rubenstein]

True, lol. But I wonder if Jeremy's idea of sacrifice is the same as Derrick's.  I imagine Jeremy thinking of his wife having to sacrifice her time and going without a lot of material goods that, as a pastor, he would be unable to ever supply. 

I don't imagine Jeremy was referring to wanting a wife who would sacrifice the physical safety of herself and her child, or her entire peace of mind. Then again, I would never have thought Derrick would expect such a thing, either, so there's that.

[yogi2014L]

2 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

True, lol. But I wonder if Jeremy's idea of sacrifice is the same as Derrick's.  I imagine Jeremy thinking of his wife having to sacrifice her time and going without a lot of material goods that, as a pastor, he would be unable to ever supply. 

I don't imagine Jeremy was referring to wanting a wife who would sacrifice the physical safety of herself and her child, or her entire peace of mind. Then again, I would never have thought Derrick would expect such a thing, either, so there's that.

ITA. Derrick does seem really indifferent to Jill's obvious discomfort in Central America. How he can even toy with the idea of returning with her says A LOT.

Even tho we don't know Jeremy that well, I get better vibes from him than Derrick. We all know Jessa won't be steamrolled by Bin so shes fine lol.

[lookeyloo]

I haven't watched yet (or ever) but there was some talk on this thread or another that they seemed so "into" each other in the grocery store.   Very confusing.

[Missy Vixen]

42 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

But my main take away from the show was what a complete and total asshole Derrick Dillard is. 

 

 

It becomes clear exactly why Triple D couldn't find a date in college to save his life and had to submit to what is essentially an arranged marriage. He's not interested in a 9-5 job. He wants to playact on the "mission" field on someone else's money.

He didn't know a thing about his wife before they got married because they had never been alone. One has to wonder what a rude shock it was for Jilly Muffin the first time she saw this side of him. The camera doesn't lie, Triple D.

[bigskygirl]

I do remember when Jill said Derick told her to be more quiet when she was talking because she was use to yelling to be heard when she was around her family.  I would not be surprise if he is tired of her clinginess 24/7, not being able to take care of Izzy by herself, co-dependency on her family, and not being able to be by herself. He should have thought of that before he married her, but Jill was not the Jill he is married to now. In otherwords, the married Jill is a completely different person than the courting Jill. Throw in the scandals, the news Jill was molested by her brother, having a kid so fast, his mother being sick,  dealing with obnoxious, co-dependent, and narcissistic in-laws, and Derick is probably realizing the honeymoon is over. I also do not think Derick should take all the blame if the marriage is not all sunshine and roses because it takes two to make a marriage work, Yes, Jill may have some serious issues, but she was not completely honest with Derick. She was expecting him to turn himself over to her and JB, and she was not a happy camper when he went to work without her because *gasp* she might need to be her own person. I may not like him or agree with him on a lot of issues, but I think he is a saint for marrying her and having the Duggars as in-laws. And yes, I am speaking from personal experience after dealing with my in-laws after my husband was diagnosed with his illness. The stress of being there for my husband and putting up with the constant stupidity and narcissistic in-laws probably had a lot to do with my thyroid going out of whack. The Dialysis Unit staff called me a saint for putting up with them, and they did not care for my in-laws either.

[lulu69]

Not making excuses for Derrick in the least, but he may just be so sick of his clingy, needy, crying wife. Yes he signed up for this when he married Jill, but I could see how not being able to even breathe without Jill beingrightthere could get on his last nerve. He probably is disgusted with her. The pity is the Dills weren't able to really get to know each other before marriage. I think it would have saved a lot of heartache all around.

ETA: I see bigskygirl said it above first, and far more eloquently than me....great minds

Edited October 28, 2016 by lulu69

[BitterApple]

I'm not really on either Jill or Derick's side with this because they're both dysfunctional and screwed-up in their own ways, but here's my thoughts:

1) If there are legitimate safety concerns in Danger America, the mission needs to be scrapped NOW. A 26 year-old single guy who wants to risk his life, so be it, but an innocent baby living in an area where there are threats to his physical safety? Hell, no. 

2) If they do relocate permanently back to Arkansas, then Jilly Muffin needs to grow the hell up. Get counseling. Manage her own household without the help of Sister-Moms. Look after her own kid. Develop a hobby. Stop leaning on her buddy group to alleviate her boredom. Act like an adult woman. Realize that yes, it's great to spend time with family, but having them in your space 24/7 is grating, even for the most tolerant husband. 

3) Derick, get a real job. Save your money. Buy or rent a house not within spitting distance of the TTH. Become financially independent so you're not at Boob's beck and call. Use Bin as a cautionary tale of how easily your dignity can be stripped when you put your well-being in the hands of a controlling narcisssist. Do what you can to keep your wife away from her bloated pig of an older brother. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by BitterApple

[bigskygirl]

I personally hope one day Ben and/or Derick slap the crap out of JB, Michelle, and Josh and tell all three of them off.

[Marigold]

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

But my main take away from the show was what a complete and total asshole Derrick Dillard is. 

He seemed to be just barely containing his anger and disgust.  The snide little way he said "it's nice to be here .... for a little while" or however he phrased it.  Man, what an nasty little piss ass he was.  By saying that, he was making it clear that no matter how Jill feels, they are going to return to their ridiculous little pretend missionary charade no matter what.  He's the boss, he's the headdick headship and they are going to live out his preposterous little dream and how it effects his wife and child mean nothing.  I can't get over how mad he seemed to be just under the surface.  And Jill just seemed so defeated.  At one point they show him from the side and she looks up at him and just sort of shrugged and said "yeah" or something, like she was so unhappy but so resigned to doing what Derrick wants.  I wanted to reach thought the TV and slap Derrick's retainer out of his mouth and pull Jill through the screen to safety, lol! 

I'm surprised because I thought Derrick seemed harmless enough at first and was probably a good guy. Then I saw the cat video and knew he was not the guy he tried to come across as being.  There is a nasty, mean side to him.  A "good guy" doesn't laugh about/go out of his way to harm an animal for jollies.  But last night was the closest I ever saw his nasty underbelly really come to the surface.  He was seething inside and it was all he could do to not let it break through on camera.  It left me convinced that guy must be an absolute monster to deal with behind closed doors.  

I think Derrick sees Jill as nothing but a wagon hitched to his star and he expects her to do what she is told.  Period. After all, she was sold as "having a heart for mission work" so she is not entitled to, you know, experience Derrick's version of mission life and decide she doesn't care for it.  It's too late.  She knew what she was signing up for.  She is not entitled to any slack at all, even though DERRICK KNEW he was marrying a totally sheltered innocent girl who had never been to school, never fended for herself for one single day of her life, never made a decision for herself, never really experienced anything in life beyond the end of her driveway.  She'd never woke up one morning, decided what she wanted to do all by herself, and walked out the door and did it.  She'd never been to the grocery store alone, for crap's sake!  

But by all means, Derrick, deflower the completely untouched child-woman and get her pregnant on your wedding night, learn she was molested as a child, watch her nearly die having your baby, then pack her off to some Zika- ridden foreign land where she doesn't speak the language, doesn't know a soul, and where she and her big white baby have targets with $$$ on them because they must seem like rich important Americans because they are always followed around by a camera crew.  Leave her in a sweltering, tarantula-filled house with no water while you play Missionary Superhero to a bunch of people who have been Christians for generations and think you are a moron.  Then be shitty and nasty because she is scared to death and falls apart every time she hears a noise ... because her fear is complicating your dreams.  Jill's dreams, of course, don't mean jack shit.  Which is sad because I think all she is dreaming of at this point is feeling safe.  I don't think it's too much to ask.  They are both still very young.  They have years to go live in the wilds and tame the savages and learn 'em about Jesus.  Why does it have to be NOW, today, next month?  Can Jill have a few years to grow up a little?  Develop some self-reliance and confidence?  The heathens will still be there. 

ugh I just can't with this guy ... 

Jessa's husband may be a dim bulb, but I don't think he is a totally different person off-screen who would completely dismiss Jessa's feelings and opinions the way Derrick seems to be doing to Jill. It's too soon to tell, but I don't think Jeremy would be so selfish, either.  It is a shame that Jill (who I think of as being the weakest-willed of the older girls) is the one who ended up married to such an insensitive, controlling jerk.  She is the least equipped one to handle what life has thrown her, and she has the shittiest husband in the bunch to make her life even harder.  And all she has to turn to for help is Jim Bob, who is not a lot better than Derrick.  How depressing.

Totally agree.

I think Derick is a sick little man who is seeking adoration and attention by his "dangerous" mission with the "people of color" who "speak Spanish". He wants to be a bad ass missionary at all costs. 

It's pretty damn clear Jill is not well. Hello, Derick? Your wife is suffering emotionally.  You need to help her. 

I noticed Derick said that it's dangerous with "kidnappings" and "rapes".  Rape jumped out at me because of what happened to Jill. 

 The kidnapping part jumped out at me.  The Dills are obviously Americans and I'm sure locals know they are "TV stars" leading people to believe they have a ton of money.  That could be very dangerous for Israel.  

Derick is a dick. This mission has nothing to do with spreading the gospel or serving others.  This about Derick's ego. 

[mythoughtis]

Derick is ...an idiot. He should never have asked her to court 5 minutes after seeing her in person for the first time.  He should have never agreed to what basically amounted to a shotgun wedding before he knew anything about her. He should have taken precautions of his own against pregnancy 5 seconds after the wedding.  Had he just taken a few months, he would have realized that he was being sold a bill of goods. He thought that since Jill was adventuresome enough to travel to Nepal to meet him, and had been to El Salvador several times, that she really would be a good missionary in Central America.   He was flat out lied to about what she wanted out of life. Jills excuse is she had no freaking idea what she wanted because no one ever let her decide anything anyway. Most likely the real issue in CA amounts to having been alone with a male. 

[Missy Vixen]

6 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Derick is a dick. This mission has nothing to do with spreading the gospel or serving others.  This about Derick's ego. 

 

It's all about Triple D, isn't it? I can only imagine what it must be like to live with a Stage 5 clinger, but one has to wonder what it's like to live with the famewhoriest of the famewhores as well. He does not want to work 9-5. He needs the spotlight. He's a special snowflake, dammit, winning the lost for Jesus!!!111!1111!!! Don't get in his way!

The Duggar spouses (if it's possible to find any; after the exposure of the questionnaire, the slim pickings just went to no pickings) will get more sketchy as time goes on. The only reason to join this family is reality TV fame and cash. 

[Zahdii]

Well, maybe a flurry of kindly worded messages on Jill and Derick's website would help.  I'm just not sure how to put what I really want to say into polite language to people I haven't even met.

I had a long post started about how Derick messed up marrying a girl just because she was pretty and really liked him and was raised to do whatever he wanted. 

Then he found out the girl was really a little girl mentally and emotionally, not because she wouldn't have been capable of growing up normally, but because her screwed up family made sure she didn't grow up.  Oh, you get the drift.

Derick needs to grow up himself and look for outside help, because things aren't going very well for his little family right now, and Jill's family aren't going to help.  He needs to find someone outside of the family that is religious, but not Quiverfull.  That person (who am I kidding, that would have to be a male) might be able to help Derick move to a place in the USA, and start counseling to help them both step back and make some decisions for themselves.  Moving back to Danger America isn't going to cut it.

I guess SOS could tell Derick that they need him to remain stateside for awhile.  Get a job, get he and Jill some more education so they can be considered for other posts, just don't put it like Jill is the reason they don't want him back.  Maybe even tell Derick that they're happy that Jill didn't get pregnant with a Zika baby and make SOS look bad.  Whatever it takes.

[ariel]

Quote

 

I think Jill & Derick are proof that the Duggar's style of courtship has many, many flaws.  I hope this style of courtship doesn't hurt Jinger too.

Edited October 28, 2016 by ariel

[MamaMax]

19 minutes ago, ariel said:

I think Jill & Derick are proof that the Duggar's style of courtship has many, many flaws.  I hope this style of courtship doesn't hurt Jinger too.

I was going to say the same thing...that I think BOTH Jill and Derrick are victims of the cult of purity thing that so many fundies subscribe to.  I am sure they both had good intentions. I believe that Derrick thought Jill would like to "be on the mission field" because she SAID she would.   I am sure she THOUGHT she would. But this is a young woman who has never been anywhere, met anyone or done anything alone, out of her bubble, without "likeminded" people to make her feel normal.

Her parents convinced her that her FATHER would make sure she picked a good husband, and she believed them. If they had any kind of normal dating life they may have discovered that they weren't a good match.  If she ever took a trip, or lived away from home, she might have discovered, "I'm really more of a homebody."  But her VIRGINITY was her parents number 1 concern, the MOST important thing about her, and they would not ever risk even the tiniest chance she might give up her "purity," so they watched her like a hawk, made sure her future husband never got to spend a minute alone with her, and sold BOTH of these kids a bill of goods that married life, sex and babies would be all great because they were "Godly" and "saved themselves for marriage."

 

I have directed people to it before, but if you've never seen it, it's so worth the read:

http://fiddlrts.blogspot.com/2014/05/modesty-culture-part-1-introduction.html

[Churchhoney]

34 minutes ago, ariel said:

I think Jill & Derick are proof that the Duggar's style of courtship has many, many flaws.  I hope this style of courtship doesn't hurt Jinger too.

Unfortunately, I'm about 100 percent sure that it will.

It'll hurt Jessa and Bin, too. That seems to be taking longer, which I would guess is because it hasn't had

a) the extra stresses of moving far away from the compound and trying to do something far far far out of the Duggar comfort zone (even though I'm sure Jilly Muffin told Derick that she'd been on many Central American missions before -- and really thought she had, the poor deluded girl);

b) the husband having, you know, an actual job that takes him out of the house a lot; and

c) the Duggar half the couple imagining that he might actually have a say or even be in charge. 

Bin's around more, and clearly doesn't think he's the guy in charge, and they're living right on the compound where the bus-station sofas and various sister-aunt moms are always available. Despite that lower-stress situation, though, I do remember a lot of people saying over the past season and a half that Bin frequently looks like he's over it. And Bin undoubtedly (I'd guess) knows that he's the low man on his marriage totem pole, so he probably doesn't fight things the way someone else might. We all saw his little sermonette to himself about how it's good to be married to somebody you don't even like -- that that's the way God wants it, in fact. Keep telling yourself that, Bin, cause it tends to be what "courtship" leads to, looks like.

And of course we see how well courtship worked out for Anna and Josh, too.

Their "courtship" crap doesn't work out for such obvious reasons -- It sets up some ideal as its goal and its promised pretty inevitable result. And then puts in place absolutely no safeguards or mechanisms by which you could possibly reach that ideal. And if you're like Derick and Bin, and believe all the crap that Duggars are selling about themselves and all the crap they're selling about courtship, both you and your spouse will live to regret it.

Can't imagine that it's going to be any different in the case of clingy, damaged, lust-crazed Jinger. Despite the 100-plus page questionnaire answer sheet, all they seem to know about each other is that they love Jesus too -- and she's meek, of course. All in all, pretty much just like the other three couples. It's nothing to build a marriage on. Particularly when at least one member of the couple comes from a highly highly highly dysfunctional family and has that family massively entangled with her/him, all the time, everywhere, even after the marriage. But is living by the fiction that it's the greatest family in the universe.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Churchhoney

[ariel]

What really makes me angry is that Michelle & JB got to "date".  They were able to spend some time alone & get to know each other without their parents monitoring all their conversations.

[CarolMK]

I don't think the "courtship rules" has worked out well for any of the three married Duggar children. All 3 of the spouses found out that the person that they married was not exactly who they thought they were. The ones that probably got to know each other the best were Ben and Jessa, as others have noted, and since their lives haven't changed as much as the other two, they haven't yet shown the intense stress levels we have seen in both Jill and Anna. 

Even though "my generation" (my husband and I got married in 1990) didn't often live together before marriage, and we didn't either, we were lucky enough to have 2 years of getting to really know each other before we married. We were both 25 when we met. My church required premarital counseling and there were a lot of questions that really had both of us thinking about various circumstances, which I have a feeling the Duggars never addressed with their kids. 

I hate that the family and their show is glorifying courtship as the superior and holier-than-thou method of preparing for marriage. I'm willing to bet in 20 year's time, there will be at least one or more divorce in their household. Some of the kids will probably live home forever and never marry and will also never be allowed to go out on their own.  I recall reading the Little House books by Laura Ingalls, and even she was allowed to have a "courtship" that didn't involve chaperones and was allowed to go out buggy riding with her husband before marriage. I believe she was 16 and he was 26 when they met. It seemed to work out well as they both lived into their 90's and stayed married. But the Duggars would never admit that any of their methods resulted in failure. 

[BunnyBlueBrown]

That does suck that Jim Bob and Michelle got to date. Most parents do not allow their children to do something because they did it and had horrible results....not finding the love of your life. & that they market courtship as superior to dating. I think about 2 overall modest girls in my program at college. They dressed very modest, religious, didn't drink or party, always made A's, etc... Their parents raised them with confidence and sent them out in the world. They are now both married to men they dated in college & actually did know and love for years before marriage. 

[ginger90]

Jinger will be a very clingy wife, imo. During the filming of this she was miserable looking on camera until Babe showed up. There was a mention that she had either spoken to or texted him asking if he was home yet. Love is one thing, she is over the top.

[Sew Sumi]

I don't think I've ever been away from home and called my husband (he doesn't text yet...he's still learning how to use a cell phone LOL) to check up on him. I've waited for him to pick me up and called the house to see if he'd left, but other than that....wtf Clinger? 

She will make Jill's Stage 5 clinger behavior look like child's play. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[BitterApple]

I agree with the above comments. The difference I see between Jill and Jinger is that Jill's clinginess seemed to be more loneliness/fear based, whereas Jinger comes off as obsessive and stalker-ish. I get that Jinger's spent most of her life starved for love, but sheesh, get a grip, woman. 

[Love2dance]

I think Jinger's clinginess is just following the programming her parents brainwash into their girls' heads. It is so important to be obsessed only with being "in love" when courting/engaged that the girls are relieved of all household duties. The siblings go on and on about how the girl is on the phone/Skype/lala land all day. She is just following the formula set for all the Duggar kids, maybe just a little more intently.

[Minivanessa]

14 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I'm not surprised that the Dullards didn't come clean about their worst experience - whatever it was - in Central America. Props to those who caught Derick's mumblings. I totally believe they are sitting on the truth to keep from harming SOS Ministries' business (running those missioncation tours) and probably so they don't look like idiots for continuing to shill for contributions on the Dillard Family Ministries website. (I'll assume it wasn't something as harrowing as a physical assault or armed home invasion, in which case they would be truly insane to stay there, much less talk about going back.)

Maybe they didn't think it through, though. If they expect us to believe that the most awful horrible scary terrifying thing that happened was that a towel rack fell down, they can hardly object when people take that at face value and react accordingly.

 

14 hours ago, yogi2014L said:

That is a good point and i think that is probably the case.

However- my question to these Duggar idiots is  why even bring it up then? It just makes them look crazy/unable to handle life down there. Not a good look. If they are really serious about gifting down there they need to step it up and make it seem like they actually want to be there and aren't terrified 24/7. The reaction to their story is...GO HOME!

I believe they were answering a question from one of the producers, as to what was the scariest moment/event down in Danger America. And the shower rack crash thing was apparently the best they could do short of telling the truth. These people are taking money to be on a reality TV show, while also taking money from SOS Ministries and donations from their fans to hang out and play missionaries in Central America. IMO those two interests collided at that point, and they fudged their answer to protect their "missionary"-related income stream.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Jeeves