S03.E03: Magenta

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Magenta, a new meta who can control metal, terrorizes the city. Meanwhile, Barry and Team Flash reunite with Earth-2 Wells and Jesse, who has the powers of a speedster, but Wells is concerned about her safety and wants her to stop using her powers.

[Trini]

Producer preview:

[nottopbravo]

I hope Barry goes back and changes the timeline, because this timeline is stupid.

All in all, I prefer Wells as a villain. 

[johntfs]

Do you guys think there's some toxin in the paint in the CSI offices that damages common sense?  First there's Barry and his... Barryness.  Then you have CSI Malfoy figuring out that the girl is a powerful metahuman and deciding "Hey, you know what would be a smart move?  Let's go poke the emotionally unstable superpowered person with a stick.  What could go wrong?"

That said, the stupid cake is taken by Wally with "Maybe if I get squished into street pizza, I'll be really fast street pizza!"

Best stuff was Joe with "Dad Cop" and describing Barry as a "second daughter."

Edited October 19, 2016 by johntfs

[Jediknight]

Really Barry and Joe, Julian's line about ghosts doesn't raise your suspicions?  You don't think that line was a little off?

I thought Wally had developed his powers, but hadn't said anything, I was obviously wrong.  He and Jesse obviously still want to hook up, just do it.

Loved Harry knowing right away that Barry had went back in time.  I want Harry and Jesse to stick around for as long as possible.

[Lantern7]

"What did I tell you? Allen fucked things up again. That's twenty Earth-2 dollars you owe me."

Would Julian-as-Alchemy be too obvious? I mean, he is new, and he's well-known for playing a douche, but that might be a little on the nose.

I'm okay with Harry, even when he's channeling Wayne Campbell. Somebody has to be an adult on this show, since Cisco's got new trauma, and Caitlin's basically hapless until she becomes Killer Frost. Total speculation on my part on that last bit. Oh, and Wally is an idiot until further notice.

I liked Cisco's reaction to "Magenta." He's gonna have a long talk with Alchemy down the road.

[Guest]

Has anyone figured out why Wells is suddenly quoting Wayne's World?  Since Earth 2 is not changed by Flashpoint, does that mean that one of the key differences is that SNL did Wayne's World twenty five years later?

[benteen]

God, this show is becoming unwatchable.  This episode just further demonstrates that all the problems on the show are because of Barry's stupid decisions that his enablers left him off the hook from.

What writer thought it was a great idea to make Cisco grim and humorless?

[catrice2]

Baby steps. Like bad guy of the week,not sure about Julian. I still don't like any version of Wells.  Disinterested in Wally and Jessie....too many people in STAR Labs these days. 

Please get back to the formula and fun of the first season.  At least they are trying....a little...with Barry and Iris.  Still need a more grown up kiss and reaction. 

I will actually take a grim and humorless Cisco over a 10  year old child. 

[quarks]

On the bright side, I didn't spend as much time ranting at Barry this episode. On the negative side, surprisingly dull episode.

Good things:

1. Yay, Jesse Quick has superpowers now, since after Hawkgirl's departure from Legends of Tomorrow, we were kinda getting a bit low on the superpowered women versus men on the hero side of these shows (basically, Supergirl and Killer Frost versus Martian Manhunter, Flash, Vibe, Ragman, Firestorm and I suppose Atom, although that's more a suit than personal powers) - and including the non superpowered people doesn't help all that much.  And Killer Frost isn't using her powers, so I'm not sure she counts. Yet.

2. Speaking of Killer Frost, liked the subtle moment where Caitlin almost admitted that yes, she is developing superpowers, and is trying to make sure she develops them slowly.  And was that almost a moment of Flash beating the Bechtel test, if for only 20 seconds? I think it was.

3. Hey, Iris got to be an actual reporter tonight AND figure things out! More of this, show.

4. I continue to like Draco Malfoy, even if he had one of the leading contenders for dumbest move of the episode, which is saying something, because this episode had a lot of them.

5. Laughed at how easily Harry and Jesse worked out that Barry has been changing the timeline again.

Questionable things:

1. Since Team Flash is training Jesse Quick and giving her a costume, why are they just sending the obviously troubled Magenta away instead of offering her training as well? Especially given that the show was kinda bonking us on the head all evening with the parallels between Magenta and her foster dad, Wally and Joe, and Jesse and Harry.

2. So, Caitlin. You work in a lab that trains superpowered people. You have even helped to build a speed lab. Why, exactly, are you choosing not to tell these people - aka your friends - about your powers?

3. So, Harry, you desperately want Jesse to give up her superpowers, so you....take her to a world where she can watch someone she admires use his superpowers to help people.  And this is going to work out how? I thought you were supposed to be brighter than this, Harry.

4. Barry, you work in a police station. Joe, you're a cop. How are you not finding Draco Malfoy's comments about ghosts suspicious?

5. So, Barry finally takes Iris on a date - two dates - where they find out that a) they have nothing to talk about when they can't talk about Flash stuff, b) when Barry isn't the Flash he puts Iris to sleep and c) Barry is the kinda guy who will just dump you miles and miles away from home so he can go talk about ghosts with the guy who used to hang out with Voldemort. I want to cheer this relationship on, really I do, but I continue to think that Iris can do better.

6. Not to mention that of course Barry and Iris's date ended up not being about them, but about how Barry has to accept both sides of himself, Barry and the Flash. And that Iris does too.

7. Speaking of which, there was an awful lot of those ultimatums going around in this episode - "Wally! You'll never have powers! JUST ACCEPT IT!" "Magenta! You suck as a human being! Just accept it!" "Daddy, I am very very fast now. Just accept it!" And so on. I kinda liked that some people resisted this, but their methods for resisting lacked something.

8. Why, with a TANKER hovering right above their building and two metahumans battling right outside their front door, wasn't everyone in the hospital trying to evacuate more quickly? Yeah, the front door was occupied, but surely a hospital, even the Central City one, would have more exits?

9. Loved the way Team Flash was just kinda hanging and listening uselessly during that fight instead of, I dunno, calling someone to try to organize a faster evacuation?

10. Has the "travelling at superspeed can make street clothes catch on fire" thing been completely dropped? Because otherwise, Iris, Barry and Jesse should all have been smoking and not in a good way several times this episode.

11. Speaking of clothes, not a fan of several of the wardrobe choices for Caitlin or Iris this episode. 

Bad things:

1. Hi, Star and Central City's one and only hospital room!  Given the number of people who have either died or been attacked in this room over on Arrow, I'm only shocked that it took Iris all of 30 seconds to realize that it was perhaps not the safest set on the show. 

2. Hilarious as it was to watch Barry and Iris speed up the exact same ocean road in the exact same sunlight at the exact same that Oliver and Felicity did at the end of Arrow season three, can I ask you, show, to invest in more stock footage, rather than just reusing the stock footage you used for a romantic moment on your sister show?

(It's the aerial shot of the California road hugging the Pacific ocean, used in Arrow episode 323 and Flash tonight.)

3. Magenta, I'm all about villains with grandiose plans, but wouldn't it have been much simpler to, I dunno, just try attacking your abusive father directly instead of trying to smush a hospital with a tanker? What if he'd just been trapped under some rubble and survived?

4. Really, Harry? You think that Barry's problem is that he doesn't forgive himself quickly enough? Are you kidding me? In the same episode that confirmed his running around in time where we learned apparently helped create Dr. Alchemy?

5. Cisco is going to cheer up eventually, right? And also - just throwing this out here - consider heading out every once in a while and using his superpowers to help out when an entire hospital is at risk of being destroyed?

Just plain stupid things:

1. Yes, by all means, guys, let's taunt the traumatized metahuman girl who is standing RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE POLICE STATION since that will go well.

2. Really, Wally? You're going to jump in front of someone else's car, risking damage to the car and to the poor driver's mental health, just so you can get superspeed? Is Barry's selfishness contagious?

3. Really, everyone? You're going to yell at Jesse for saving his life?

[ruby24]

Does Joe know Barry and Iris are dating? I'd have expected more of a reaction to that. Also still waiting on a genuinely passionate kiss from those two. Somebody tell them to bring the heat or I'm going to believe it's not possible and it's Grant Gustin's fault.

Seriously, that kiss by the water SHOULD have gone deep, that was the most obvious place for that to happen, and it would have on any other show. So now I can't help but be a little suspicious.

Edited October 19, 2016 by ruby24

[mtlchick]

Someone has to remind me why Wally needed to hit by a car to get his speed.  Did Jesse get it that way?

 

Quote

1. Hi, Star and Central City's one and only hospital room!  Given the number of people who have either died or been attacked in this room over on Arrow, I'm only shocked that it took Iris all of 30 seconds to realize that it was perhaps not the safest set on the show. 

This was my main concern about Supergirl's move to Vancouver: trying to disguise locations that have been used in the DCU.  And...they went to the ever popular warehouse.  So when I saw where Barry and Iris went to their do over date, it was like "you can't go to the Vancouver suburbs for a change? Also, did he leave her bus fare so she can get back?"

The villain wasn't bad as she was clearly tormented, but I'm a little confused as how they find Alchemy and vice versa.  But I did enjoy that Wells is back and 30 seconds in he's like "DAMMIT BARRY! I told you not to go back!"

 

Maybe because of all the new shows I'm watching this year, but this season isn't grabbing me so far.  

[Trini]

No, Barry! Finish the second date! Iris did not not wear that dress for nothing! (I hope he left his credit card wherever that was.)

Oh Hi, 2nd new set of the season: Speed Lab.

Oh Wally, I like you, and you’re cute and all, but I cannot endorse a Wally/Jesse ‘ship if you’re going to be doing dumb stuff like walking into traffic. Also, try to be a little more subtle, show. Wally’s going to go to Dr. Alchemy to get his powers, right?

Well, now we see why Julian is a CSI and not working with the public directly — no people skills.

Best laugh of the episode might have Barry’s “It ’tis”(faux British accent). Hee!

Aww, Barry and Iris were adorable! They do awkwardly cute really well.

So does Frankie (Magenta) still have powers without the “Magenta” personality?

So with Harry and Jesse showing up, looks like Cisco got the short straw for screen time.

‘Like a second daughter’? Well that’s just mean, Joe.

It’s going to be weird with two speedsters around.

[Lady Calypso]

This episode had its good points and bad points.

Let's start off with this, though: Damnit, Barry!

The good points are that we finally get not one but two new female metahumans in the same episode. Seriously; I feel deprived of female metas and we get Magenta and Jesse Quick. I enjoyed Magenta a lot more than I thought, and I grew to really like Jesse. Also, Jesse/Harry remembering Barry's original timeline? Great! I wondered if any other Earths would be affected; it's good to see that they are not. 

I enjoyed the flirting between Wally and Jesse. Honestly, I'd love if Wally never became Kid Flash, because I enjoy the idea of just Barry and Jesse being the speedsters, if Jesse/Harry actually stick around long term. But I noticed Wally's look when Frankie talked about dreams. I assume that he's having them too. 

There's actually a panic button for Team Flash Mob. I agree with Barry; that is finally an improvement. I also liked the new Speed Lab; at least we got a new set that looks nice, kind of. 

Caitlin/Jesse's scene! It almost passed the Bechdel Test! 

The slow build up to Caitlin becoming Killer Frost, even if she is lying. 

Barry/Iris is giving dating a try! Finally! 

Now, onto the bad points.

This timeline sucks. Boring Cisco, lying Caitlin, and oblivious Joe just...make me sad. CSI Malfoy is not smart. Unless he's Alchemy and was trying to get Magenta to overpower and 'kill' Frankie, his move of provoking her was just not smart. 

Everyone played dumb in this episode. Well, most of the guys. Wally trying to get speed by stepping in front of a speeding car, Harry's attempt to trick Jesse through everyone else, we already covered CSI Malfoy, Cisco not contributing anything (ok, not a dumb move; just disappointing), Joe's talk with Wally and him assuming things were good, and of course Barry. 

Barry's Pep Talk #1000. 

Barry leaving Iris on their second date. Come on, man! I imagine Iris' smile wiped off her face seconds after the scene ended once she realized that she had no idea where she was and how she was getting back to Central City.

Barry and Joe not questioning CSI Malfoy's "Ghost" line. I think you might want him to elaborate. 

[Actionmage]

I realize that the show is titled The Flash, but why couldn't Jessie talk Magenta/ Frankie down?  There was no real incentive for her to just trust Flash, but a young woman who has some parental ish too might be a bit more relatable? Why not showcase the new superhero of Central City in the episode that is supposed to be Jessie Quick's hero debut. 

I agree that Frankie should have stayed with the gang for training, quarks. I also thought, in order to keep Frankie from total character limbo, they could have said that Clarissa Stein was willing to take Frankie in. Clarissa is obviously not too easily ruffled by metas and seems like a kind, nurturing woman. Plus, anyone giving those ladies trouble would have to eventually face Martin and Jax, which could be fun!

ICAM with quarks' comment on Harry telling Barry that Barry never forgives himself enough. Really? I had a "Dinah Laurel Lance- always tryin' to save the world" flashback and it wasn't fun.

To be fair to Barry for a moment, maybe wherever that marina/ dock area was, Barry was going to return and finish the date?  Psst, Show? If you're going to have Barry leave Iris somewhere, make it close-ish to Central City or in Star City specifically-- or even Coast City and Iris calls up Linda Park? Just so we know that Barry is thoughtful enough to not expect his date to take public transit back down the coast on a reporter's salary, okay?  Or have them talk about contingency meeting spots if something goes down. Just a sentence that shows they have put some forethought into this relationship.

I love Julian's seeming stupidity. He could simply be book-smart/ experience-dumb, or he could be a baddie that just sussed out Barry's secret.

Despite the weird ego-stroking to Barry, I am very glad to have Harry back. I liked how he kept using "Snow" and "Caitlyn"; he was Papa Bear Harry and at the end of his tether. It really should have been a big red flag about Harry's mindset if he came across dimensions to have folks try to change Jessie's mind.

I agree with others that I like some of what I'm seeing, but there are almost too many Shampoo/Rinse/Repeat beats that I'm getting bored by. ( The let's not tell folks who have every reason to love and help me a big secret. Parents are overprotective a-holes. Barry is so put upon. Joe is missing that his kids aren't totally honest with him.) (Also? What is up with the 2nd daughter diss? Just tell Barry he overshares, which isn't only a girl thing, otherwise The Incredibles couldn't have jumpstarted the "monologue-ing" thing.)

It's only three episodes in, but at least Iris is still working as a reporter. (Maybe Kara can share experiences with Iris in the crossover?) 

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

 

Would Julian-as-Alchemy be too obvious? I mean, he is new, and he's well-known for playing a douche, but that might be a little on the nose.

I think that would be a little too obvious, so it's probably true.  For my part if they want Felton to play a character knowledgeable about ghosts and the supernatural, they should have him be Jason Blood

[thuganomics85]

Harry's back!  And Jesse too, and she's now got Flash-like powers, which makes Wally sad and stupid.  I get wanting to have powers too, but there has to be safer ways to "jump start" them, then just walking in front of a car.  At the very least, let Jesse know what you are going to do, so she can be more ready to bail your sorry ass out.  For shame, Wally!  You are more like Barry then I care to admit!

Anyway, back to Harry!  I love how he was barely there for two minutes and he was already hilarious busting Barry's chops for all the dumb shit he did after he went back to Earth 2.  The look on his face was priceless!  Of course, he would end up being overprotective about Jesse fighting crime like Barry, but I'm glad he came around at the end.  And Cisco already got her a suit as well!  Hope we get more Harry/Cisco bits soon.  And Cisco starts lightening up a bit.

They really seem to be going out of their way to make Julian look evil, which makes me think he won't be.  Especially since why would he have stupidly almost let himself get killed by taunting Magenta, like he did.  It's not like he knows Barry is the Flash (or does he?), and that he would get there in time.  Until then, I continue to love how he clearly finds Barry to be the worst.  Tom Felton is a blast in the role.  Team Draco!

Barry and Iris' first date is mainly bust due to Barry trying too hard, Iris just wanting both of them to act normal, and then getting called away.  But the second date goes better because Barry.... zips her off to the river?  And then gets called away, again?  I guess I'm glad the show is finally trying to make it happen, but I hope it gets way more interesting then this.

Caitlin is this close to letting it slip to someone what she has powers, now.

As far as speeches go, Joe's one to Wally actually was pretty decent.  Too bad Wally apparently didn't listen.

Despite all that, it was probably the best episode so far, since Barry didn't annoy me this time, beyond his normal Barry qualities.  But I still want Harry to meet Julian, and they can take turns cracking insults at Barry's expense.

[Primetimer]

Magenta's too strong to fight, so Barry tries talking to her. We should run for cover, right?

View the full article

[TDT]

I assume this wont be the last we see of Magenta..

So when will Wally strike up that deal with Dr Alchemy to get speed powers..and will the terms of the deal be that he has to kill either Barry,or Jessie,or both..?

[TV Anonymous]

It seems like the Berlanti Productions is trying to make The Flash the worst show in Arrowverse, by a wide margin.

[dirtypop90]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

Does Joe know Barry and Iris are dating? I'd have expected more of a reaction to that. Also still waiting on a genuinely passionate kiss from those two. Somebody tell them to bring the heat or I'm going to believe it's not possible and it's Grant Gustin's fault.

Seriously, that kiss by the water SHOULD have gone deep, that was the most obvious place for that to happen, and it would have on any other show. So now I can't help but be a little suspicious.

GG doesn't have it in him. I actually thought him and CP had a sparkling chemistry this ep and work well together but he just can't bring the heat. CP almost seems too "grown" for him. But Iris and Barry were "cute" and I expect them to remain that way. One of the reasons I think the writers should have started with them married. Their chem doesnt work for a new, lusty couple who hasnt seen each other naked lol but would be more understandable for an established, married couple.

All these superhero shows have wack kisses. Oliver/Felicity had the same issue when they were together, and I don't believe it was because of Amell because I saw him on Hung lol and him and EBR have sexual chemistry.  By contrast, the kisses on VD and Reign between Francis and Mary were pretty good. Those are the only other CW shows I really watched.

Overall, thought the ep was kinda boring but enjoyed Iris/Barry scenes.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Not a horrible episode.  Flash episodes are always better with Wells in them.  Jesse really is Quick now. (har har)

Two-2.5-three points in the episode that noticeably bugged me:

• You really going there, writers, trying to display how hard dating is - and will be - for WestAllen because he's The Flash?  Hard to buy into such an argument when he left, stopped, and returned from a burglary in literally 5 seconds.
• ... and going off that last point, some random waiter/server knew it was a burglary in progress when the sirens were heard only 3 seconds prior to being asked about it.  Uh huh, right.  Totally believable.
•  Was the end-point of that last date still in Central City - looked like they ran further than just the CC's city limits?  And if not (hell, even if still in CC), Barry just left Iris there to go talk to Joe, and she was perfectly alright with it??  When in the first season she whined because the Flash left her on the rooftop of Jitters and not at the front door of the shop where he originally found her.  *eye-rolling facepalms with a groan*

Edited October 19, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Trini]

Apparently I stepped out of the room when the Panic Button was mentioned; yay! That being a thing was on my wish list. Does this mean that there's a commitment to less 'damselling' this season?

Glad Iris and her job got connected to the A plot (was that really so hard, writers?); but I wished we could have seen her talk with Wally. Maybe it will be later since this arc of Wally wanting powers might be ongoing.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Quote

Actually, "Magenta" is just fine. Anytime they stick to colors, they limit how bad things can get, to be honest.

Heh. Does it take any of the shine off of Magenta to note that her powers are magnetic? (Is dyslexia a superpower?)

[Artsda]

I dislike the plot of multiple speedsters, they're messing the formula of the show up too much.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

10. Has the "travelling at superspeed can make street clothes catch on fire" thing been completely dropped? Because otherwise, Iris, Barry and Jesse should all have been smoking and not in a good way several times this episode.

This was explained long ago in the comics, but apparently the explanation has never been set forth on the show.  The reason that the speedsters' street clothes (and anyone/anything they're carrying with them) aren't incinerated by the air friction that develops at those high speeds is that one of the speedsters' powers is an automatically generated aura that protects them and anything they're wearing and anyone they're carrying.

[Trini]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

3. Magenta, I'm all about villains with grandiose plans, but wouldn't it have been much simpler to, I dunno, just try attacking your abusive father directly instead of trying to smush a hospital with a tanker? What if he'd just been trapped under some rubble and survived?

Oh yeah, this was the episode directed by the VFX supervisor.

Watching that scene, I was also like, "girl, you don't need to go so big!" Just to kill one dude!

[VCRTracking]

Iris looked GORGEOUS in this episode(Candace Patton always looks good, of course), but this episode....damn.

Love Harrison Wells saying the Wayne's World "not" thing.

Julian confronting a possible meta that can control metal. Not very smart.

Joe saying Barry was like a "second daughter" because he overshares his emotions, made me laugh.

Barry talking down Magenta reminds me why I like him(even if he effs things up).

[BkWurm1]

Speaking as a child of the 90's, it wasn't just a Wayne's World thing.  But I confess, Wells really loving the "not" kind of cracked me up. 

[BkWurm1]

35 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

This was explained long ago in the comics, but apparently the explanation has never been set forth on the show.  The reason that the speedsters' street clothes (and anyone/anything they're carrying with them) aren't incinerated by the air friction that develops at those high speeds is that one of the speedsters' powers is an automatically generated aura that protects them and anything they're wearing and anyone they're carrying.

Which would have been fine if on The Flash clothing didn't actually catch on fire (and still did when Barry did his crossover to Supergirl last year)
 

Quote

 

Caitlin/Jesse's scene! It almost passed the Bechdel Test! 

The slow build up to Caitlin becoming Killer Frost, even if she is lying.

 

I enjoyed the little bit of a voice that they FINALLY have allowed Caitlin to have.  It's only sorta about her still but it's closer to anything she's had before. 

I was trying to work out why she wouldn't tell anyone about her powers and then I remembered last year when Cisco was too afraid to even tell her that her evil E2 version had freeze powers for fear that E1 Caitlin would get them and she'd go evil.  With that kind of "support" system around you, I'd be hesitant to share as well. 

[legaleagle53]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

Which would have been fine if on The Flash clothing didn't actually catch on fire (and still did when Barry did his crossover to Supergirl last year)

Well, as I said, the writers apparently never bothered to set the explanation forth or to even read the comics enough to know that that was the reason.

[zannej]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

On the bright side, I didn't spend as much time ranting at Barry this episode. On the negative side, surprisingly dull episode.

Good things:

1. Yay, Jesse Quick has superpowers now, since after Hawkgirl's departure from Legends of Tomorrow, we were kinda getting a bit low on the superpowered women versus men on the hero side of these shows (basically, Supergirl and Killer Frost versus Martian Manhunter, Flash, Vibe, Ragman, Firestorm and I suppose Atom, although that's more a suit than personal powers) - and including the non superpowered people doesn't help all that much.  And Killer Frost isn't using her powers, so I'm not sure she counts. Yet.

2. Speaking of Killer Frost, liked the subtle moment where Caitlin almost admitted that yes, she is developing superpowers, and is trying to make sure she develops them slowly.  And was that almost a moment of Flash beating the Bechtel test, if for only 20 seconds? I think it was.

3. Hey, Iris got to be an actual reporter tonight AND figure things out! More of this, show.

4. I continue to like Draco Malfoy, even if he had one of the leading contenders for dumbest move of the episode, which is saying something, because this episode had a lot of them.

5. Laughed at how easily Harry and Jesse worked out that Barry has been changing the timeline again.

Questionable things:

1. Since Team Flash is training Jesse Quick and giving her a costume, why are they just sending the obviously troubled Magenta away instead of offering her training as well? Especially given that the show was kinda bonking us on the head all evening with the parallels between Magenta and her foster dad, Wally and Joe, and Jesse and Harry.

2. So, Caitlin. You work in a lab that trains superpowered people. You have even helped to build a speed lab. Why, exactly, are you choosing not to tell these people - aka your friends - about your powers?

3. So, Harry, you desperately want Jesse to give up her superpowers, so you....take her to a world where she can watch someone she admires use his superpowers to help people.  And this is going to work out how? I thought you were supposed to be brighter than this, Harry.

4. Barry, you work in a police station. Joe, you're a cop. How are you not finding Draco Malfoy's comments about ghosts suspicious?

5. So, Barry finally takes Iris on a date - two dates - where they find out that a) they have nothing to talk about when they can't talk about Flash stuff, b) when Barry isn't the Flash he puts Iris to sleep and c) Barry is the kinda guy who will just dump you miles and miles away from home so he can go talk about ghosts with the guy who used to hang out with Voldemort. I want to cheer this relationship on, really I do, but I continue to think that Iris can do better.

6. Not to mention that of course Barry and Iris's date ended up not being about them, but about how Barry has to accept both sides of himself, Barry and the Flash. And that Iris does too.

7. Speaking of which, there was an awful lot of those ultimatums going around in this episode - "Wally! You'll never have powers! JUST ACCEPT IT!" "Magenta! You suck as a human being! Just accept it!" "Daddy, I am very very fast now. Just accept it!" And so on. I kinda liked that some people resisted this, but their methods for resisting lacked something.

8. Why, with a TANKER hovering right above their building and two metahumans battling right outside their front door, wasn't everyone in the hospital trying to evacuate more quickly? Yeah, the front door was occupied, but surely a hospital, even the Central City one, would have more exits?

9. Loved the way Team Flash was just kinda hanging and listening uselessly during that fight instead of, I dunno, calling someone to try to organize a faster evacuation?

10. Has the "traveling at superspeed can make street clothes catch on fire" thing been completely dropped? Because otherwise, Iris, Barry and Jesse should all have been smoking and not in a good way several times this episode.

11. Speaking of clothes, not a fan of several of the wardrobe choices for Caitlin or Iris this episode. 

Bad things:

1. Hi, Star and Central City's one and only hospital room!  Given the number of people who have either died or been attacked in this room over on Arrow, I'm only shocked that it took Iris all of 30 seconds to realize that it was perhaps not the safest set on the show. 

2. Hilarious as it was to watch Barry and Iris speed up the exact same ocean road in the exact same sunlight at the exact same that Oliver and Felicity did at the end of Arrow season three, can I ask you, show, to invest in more stock footage, rather than just reusing the stock footage you used for a romantic moment on your sister show?

(It's the aerial shot of the California road hugging the Pacific ocean, used in Arrow episode 323 and Flash tonight.)

3. Magenta, I'm all about villains with grandiose plans, but wouldn't it have been much simpler to, I dunno, just try attacking your abusive father directly instead of trying to smush a hospital with a tanker? What if he'd just been trapped under some rubble and survived?

4. Really, Harry? You think that Barry's problem is that he doesn't forgive himself quickly enough? Are you kidding me? In the same episode that confirmed his running around in time where we learned apparently helped create Dr. Alchemy?

5. Cisco is going to cheer up eventually, right? And also - just throwing this out here - consider heading out every once in a while and using his superpowers to help out when an entire hospital is at risk of being destroyed?

Just plain stupid things:

1. Yes, by all means, guys, let's taunt the traumatized metahuman girl who is standing RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE POLICE STATION since that will go well.

2. Really, Wally? You're going to jump in front of someone else's car, risking damage to the car and to the poor driver's mental health, just so you can get superspeed? Is Barry's selfishness contagious?

3. Really, everyone? You're going to yell at Jesse for saving his life?

Some very good points!

Picking up a tanker to drop on an entire building seems like a bit much. It really didn't make sense. Mind you, I know she wasn't thinking rationally, but why would picking up a tanker and dropping it on the hospital occur to her? Especially after she had the presence of mind to shut the doors on the hospital-- couldn't she see the foster father right there? She could have put the tanker down and then thrown some more light poles at him.

As for Julian antagonizing her, I suspect he's Dr. Alchemy and knows Barry is the Flash. Note how he told Barry to come with him. Why would he want Barry to come with him? He doesn't trust/like Barry, so the only reason I can think of for him to say "Come with me" is because he intentionally brought out Magenta and knew Barry would be there to save him.

Wally really didn't think things through at all when he stepped out in front of that car. I have a friend who was driving and someone just stepped out in front of her car when she had no room to stop. Guy died and even though it wasn't her fault, she still feels bad about it even years later. I suppose he just assumed he would have gotten the powers and there would not have been a crash.

Jesse getting yelled at didn't make sense to me at all. Harry really seems to struggle with his parenting. Even before she had speed, Jesse just seemed to run over him and do what she wanted against his wishes and there were times he let her have her way when it didn't make sense. If she were an adult it would be one thing, but she's still a teenager. Granted there were times when there wasn't much he could do without physically grabbing her or something. I just wish his conversations with her had been different. If he'd said it wasn't about her being a girl, but about the fact that she was considerably younger than Barry, that Barry had been mentored by someone who had speed powers himself (even if he didn't know it at first), and that even Barry had come close to death. He could have also pointed out again that she is the only family he has left and he's afraid of losing her. But it seems he doesn't know the right things to say to her-- which is actually in line with the way they've established his character.

4 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Someone has to remind me why Wally needed to hit by a car to get his speed.  Did Jesse get it that way?

 

This was my main concern about Supergirl's move to Vancouver: trying to disguise locations that have been used in the DCU.  And...they went to the ever popular warehouse.  So when I saw where Barry and Iris went to their do over date, it was like "you can't go to the Vancouver suburbs for a change? Also, did he leave her bus fare so she can get back?"

The villain wasn't bad as she was clearly tormented, but I'm a little confused as how they find Alchemy and vice versa.  But I did enjoy that Wells is back and 30 seconds in he's like "DAMMIT BARRY! I told you not to go back!"

 

Maybe because of all the new shows I'm watching this year, but this season isn't grabbing me so far.  

Jesse had just finished telling him that she got her powers because she almost got hit by a car and while it was coming toward her, everything around her froze and she was able to move out of the way in time. So Wally tried to get his powers that way.

I assume that Barry went back for her after he talked to Joe and Julian.

I sometimes wonder if they would be better off just using CG to create different looks for sets since they like to recycle them so much. They sink a lot of $ into their CG budget, so why not just do that instead of having to worry about going to locations? That would be *if* their CG department could get the texture/bump mapping and lighting right so you can't tell that it is CG.

4 hours ago, Trini said:

No, Barry! Finish the second date! Iris did not not wear that dress for nothing! (I hope he left his credit card wherever that was.)

Oh Hi, 2nd new set of the season: Speed Lab.

Oh Wally, I like you, and you’re cute and all, but I cannot endorse a Wally/Jesse ‘ship if you’re going to be doing dumb stuff like walking into traffic. Also, try to be a little more subtle, show. Wally’s going to go to Dr. Alchemy to get his powers, right?

Well, now we see why Julian is a CSI and not working with the public directly — no people skills.

Best laugh of the episode might have Barry’s “It ’tis”(faux British accent). Hee!

Aww, Barry and Iris were adorable! They do awkwardly cute really well.

So does Frankie (Magenta) still have powers without the “Magenta” personality?

So with Harry and Jesse showing up, looks like Cisco got the short straw for screen time.

‘Like a second daughter’? Well that’s just mean, Joe.

It’s going to be weird with two speedsters around.

It does look like Wally might try to find Dr. Alchemy or that Dr. Alchemy has started to try to affect him.

On the Julian front, I suspect he may have been intentionally antagonizing her.

I'm guessing Frankie doesn't have the powers, but I do worry about her safety. If Rival was murdered in prison for "failing", wouldn't that mean it is possible that Alchemy would go after Frankie too? or would he still have other plans. I'm a bit disappointed that they left out the part of Frankie having been a childhood friend of Wally's (she was his friend and girlfriend for awhile in the comics).

I wish that attributing "feminine" qualities to males wasn't considered an insult. The whole "second daughter" and oversharing feelings lines really seemed odd to me for some reason. I don't know why. I know Joe laughed and said he was joking, but there was just something off about that whole exchange. I happen to know some guys who overshare their feelings far more than some girls. So, it just ended up coming off as rather sexist and strange.

I don't think there will be two speedsters around for long. Violett is not part of the main cast as of yet. She's not going to be in every episode.

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This episode had its good points and bad points.

Let's start off with this, though: Damnit, Barry!

The good points are that we finally get not one but two new female metahumans in the same episode. Seriously; I feel deprived of female metas and we get Magenta and Jesse Quick. I enjoyed Magenta a lot more than I thought, and I grew to really like Jesse. Also, Jesse/Harry remembering Barry's original timeline? Great! I wondered if any other Earths would be affected; it's good to see that they are not. 

I enjoyed the flirting between Wally and Jesse. Honestly, I'd love if Wally never became Kid Flash, because I enjoy the idea of just Barry and Jesse being the speedsters, if Jesse/Harry actually stick around long term. But I noticed Wally's look when Frankie talked about dreams. I assume that he's having them too. 

There's actually a panic button for Team Flash Mob. I agree with Barry; that is finally an improvement. I also liked the new Speed Lab; at least we got a new set that looks nice, kind of. 

Caitlin/Jesse's scene! It almost passed the Bechdel Test! 

The slow build up to Caitlin becoming Killer Frost, even if she is lying. 

Barry/Iris is giving dating a try! Finally! 

Now, onto the bad points.

This timeline sucks. Boring Cisco, lying Caitlin, and oblivious Joe just...make me sad. CSI Malfoy is not smart. Unless he's Alchemy and was trying to get Magenta to overpower and 'kill' Frankie, his move of provoking her was just not smart. 

Everyone played dumb in this episode. Well, most of the guys. Wally trying to get speed by stepping in front of a speeding car, Harry's attempt to trick Jesse through everyone else, we already covered CSI Malfoy, Cisco not contributing anything (ok, not a dumb move; just disappointing), Joe's talk with Wally and him assuming things were good, and of course Barry. 

Barry's Pep Talk #1000. 

Barry leaving Iris on their second date. Come on, man! I imagine Iris' smile wiped off her face seconds after the scene ended once she realized that she had no idea where she was and how she was getting back to Central City.

Barry and Joe not questioning CSI Malfoy's "Ghost" line. I think you might want him to elaborate. 

Caitlin hiding her powers doesn't make sense-- unless something weird happened in season 1 or 2 of this timeline that we don't know about that would explain her odd behavior. I have to say that I think DP's acting has improved. When Caitlin yelled at Harry and lectured him about how he should approach Jesse, I didn't see any hint of the exaggerated facial expressions or things that used to really bug me about her acting. But then, she usually does her best acting when interacting with TC. I hope that she will be that good in more scenes with other people.

Cisco really seemed off this episode. I hope that Harry will stop and talk to him and find out what happened to his brother and awkwardly try to find a way to comfort him. And maybe if Cisco mentions that he wanted Barry to save his brother, Harry could talk some sense into him and point out how screwed up things were from Barry's time shenanigans already.

The "ghost" line was interesting. It is also interesting how Alchemy was able to attack Rival in a room that suppressed metahuman powers. So, I wonder how he was able to do that.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Harry's back!  And Jesse too, and she's now got Flash-like powers, which makes Wally sad and stupid.  I get wanting to have powers too, but there has to be safer ways to "jump start" them, than just walking in front of a car.  At the very least, let Jesse know what you are going to do, so she can be more ready to bail your sorry ass out.  For shame, Wally!  You are more like Barry then I care to admit!

Anyway, back to Harry!  I love how he was barely there for two minutes and he was already hilarious busting Barry's chops for all the dumb shit he did after he went back to Earth 2.  The look on his face was priceless!  Of course, he would end up being overprotective about Jesse fighting crime like Barry, but I'm glad he came around at the end.  And Cisco already got her a suit as well!  Hope we get more Harry/Cisco bits soon.  And Cisco starts lightening up a bit.

They really seem to be going out of their way to make Julian look evil, which makes me think he won't be.  Especially since why would he have stupidly almost let himself get killed by taunting Magenta, like he did.  It's not like he knows Barry is the Flash (or does he?), and that he would get there in time.  Until then, I continue to love how he clearly finds Barry to be the worst.  Tom Felton is a blast in the role.  Team Draco!

Barry and Iris' first date is mainly bust due to Barry trying too hard, Iris just wanting both of them to act normal, and then getting called away.  But the second date goes better because Barry.... zips her off to the river?  And then gets called away, again?  I guess I'm glad the show is finally trying to make it happen, but I hope it gets way more interesting then this.

Caitlin is this close to letting it slip to someone what she has powers, now.

As far as speeches go, Joe's one to Wally actually was pretty decent.  Too bad Wally apparently didn't listen.

Despite all that, it was probably the best episode so far, since Barry didn't annoy me this time, beyond his normal Barry qualities.  But I still want Harry to meet Julian, and they can take turns cracking insults at Barry's expense.

Given that Wally was actually mad at Jesse for saving him, I think he probably would have felt that his powers would not have been jump-started if he knew someone was going to save him.

I'm really hoping for more Harry and Cisco scenes as well. Tom Cavanagh and Carlos Valdes just work so well together.

I'm really hoping that Julian is a red herring and that it will turn out to be someone else that is Dr. Alchemy. But I guess they want to keep us guessing. People might think he's not just because it is a little too obvious, which means they might not expect it if/when he turns out to be Dr. Alchemy. At the very least, I think that perhaps he is a metahuman himself and knows that Barry is the Flash.

I would *love* to see Julian run in to Harry (and not just because of the name). I wonder how Barry would explain it to him-- it would be funny if he explained that the guy who killed his mother was actually a metahuman posing as Dr. Wells and not the real Dr. Wells. Also, maybe Barry should get Joe to have Harry make him a metahuman detector watch and get near Julian to see if he triggers it. I would love to get a smartwatch with a flip-open cover like that, but as far as I can tell they don't make them.

Over all, I enjoyed the episode. Mostly because I was happy to see Harry and Jesse again. The plot needed a lot of work. Barry and Iris going on dates was very awkward and I do agree that the kisses lacked passion. I think they are trying to sell that it is such a true pure love and they might think that too much passion might detract from that somehow. Which is why I think it would be funny if Barry and Iris have a better moment while just on the couch at home talking when they are alone-- no pressure from being on a formal date. And then Barry could ask her if she wants to go upstairs and zips her away at superspeed.

I want to see Julian interact with more people. I really like Tom Felton.

The only acting I didn't really find all that great this episode was from the girl playing Francis. She wasn't terrible, but there was just something off to me. I can't quite put my finger on it.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Which is why I think it would be funny if Barry and Iris have a better moment while just on the couch at home talking when they are alone-- no pressure from being on a formal date. And then Barry could ask her if she wants to go upstairs and zips her away at superspeed.

I'm all for a casual moment, but please not in their childhood bedrooms.  Make out on the couch for a while but then PLEASE don't have their first time together be while worrying if "dad" is going to come home.  Star Labs is huge.  Go find some unused space and decorate it with a bunch of candles and pillows.  Don't do it in Joe's house. I'm begging you.   

[ruby24]

Well, thanks to Flashpoint, Iris apparently didn't set foot in Joe's house for a year, so the upside of that is that she HAS to have her own place now. They can do it there, and Barry will probably move in with her this season.

[zannej]

LOL. It would be kind of weird if they did it at Joe's house and Joe heard them. That would be an awkward breakfast afterward. I could see Joe either not wanting to make eye contact but giving them odd looks and Barry asking what's up and Joe mentioning being kept up by the "noise". So, yeah, Iris probably wouldn't be comfortable with that situation so she'd probably take Barry back to her place instead.

So, an amended version would be them having a moment on the couch and Barry zipping them to Iris' apartment. Better? LOL.

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

So, Caitlin. You work in a lab that trains superpowered people. You have even helped to build a speed lab. Why, exactly, are you choosing not to tell these people - aka your friends - about your powers?

Cisco wasn't exactly forthcoming about his abilities either, and it took Harry and his watch to out him to everyone. 

I guess everyone forgot Barry gave Jessie that little spark to wake her up after the dark matter wave. 

Wally has to get his powers soon because otherwise there's absolutely no reason for him to be on the show.  The only question is what type of deal will he make to get them. 

Oh, and I guess everyone is totally OK with a potential supervillain just being out there.  I guess if the cause of her emotional distress (i.e. foster dad and years of crappy foster care) are gone all of the damage apparently vanishes with it.

Edited October 19, 2016 by cambridgeguy

[zannej]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

Cisco wasn't exactly forthcoming about his abilities either, and it took Harry and his watch to out him to everyone. 

I guess everyone forgot Barry gave Jessie that little spark to wake her up after the dark matter wave. 

Wally has to get his powers soon because otherwise there's absolutely no reason for him to be on the show.  The only question is what type of deal will he make to get them. 

Oh, and I guess everyone is totally OK with a potential supervillain just being out there.  I guess if the cause of her emotional distress (i.e. foster dad and years of crappy foster care) are gone all of the damage apparently vanishes with it.

True, and you'd think Caitlin might have learned from Cisco's mistake-- assuming this Cisco hid his powers. We don't know what has changed. Maybe interactions with the Earth 2 team didn't go the same for the Earth 1 team in this timeline? I don't know. Was Wally there when Barry woke Jesse up? I can't remember. I think on his part it's wishful thinking.

Barry seemed ok with Dr. Light from Earth 2 being loose-- but then, she wasn't really a killer and only killed accidentally (albeit she was trying to kill her doppelganger-- but she was under duress). I wonder if she's still running around naked somewhere or if different things happened to her on this version of Earth 1. I would like to see Linda Park return. Not that I want to see her damseled, but it would be interesting if needing to save her life is what triggers Wally's powers (or thinking she needs to be saved and his powers kicking only to find that she didn't need help).

I hope that they are going to go talk to Frankie and try to find a way to protect her now. Maybe they will offer her asylum on Earth 2 and she could become friends with Jesse.

Also, I wanted to add that when I said there was something off about the acting for Magenta, I meant when she was in the Magenta persona. She was fine as just Frankie. But the Magenta thing seemed like she was trying too hard.

[Beamish]

I found this episode to be boring. I'll put it this way: there were times I didn't rush back into the room while doing my laundry.

Whiny Wally is really is really turning me off to this show. I cringe whenever he comes on the screen.

I love Malfoy's snarky attitude.

I didn't find Magenta to be very captivating or interesting character/villain.

However, I have high hopes for next week. One of my favorite comic villains!  

[twoods]

I didn't realize how much I missed Jessie and Harry until they were on my screen. I missed the whole team interacting together like last season, so I enjoyed this episode.

Please don't go to Alchemy, Wally. Unless he's already trying to reach you by the dreams you've been having. This is not going to end well, and will put a damper on my Wally/Jessie ship. I can't help it- they are so cute.

I like that Barry and Iris are awkward around each other now that they are dating. I would like some more heat to their kisses, but will take whatever I get before the writers find another way to tear them apart.

[benteen]

Quote

Please don't go to Alchemy, Wally. Unless he's already trying to reach you by the dreams you've been having. This is not going to end well, and will put a damper on my Wally/Jessie ship. I can't help it- they are so cute.

Wally was never too bright to begin with and with Barry as a role model who is enabled by the people around him, I think it's a safe bet where it's heading.  Don't forget, Barry is the "genius" who willingly gave Zoom his speed.

[ElleMo]

12 hours ago, mtlchick said:

This was my main concern about Supergirl's move to Vancouver: trying to disguise locations that have been used in the DCU.  And...they went to the ever popular warehouse.  So when I saw where Barry and Iris went to their do over date, it was like "you can't go to the Vancouver suburbs for a change? Also, did he leave her bus fare so she can get back?"

I understand that he couldn't carry Iris to his meeting with Joe and Malfoy, but he could have carried her home and then gone to work.  He is a speedster and Malfoy shouldn't be expecting to show up in 5 seconds so he's got some time to burn.

[ElleMo]

7 hours ago, zannej said:

It does look like Wally might try to find Dr. Alchemy or that Dr. Alchemy has started to try to affect him.

He mentioned to Jessie that he dreams of being a speedster and Frankie mentioned that her powers started with her having dreams, so I expect he will get his powers shortly.

[Lady Calypso]

13 hours ago, Actionmage said:

To be fair to Barry for a moment, maybe wherever that marina/ dock area was, Barry was going to return and finish the date?  Psst, Show? If you're going to have Barry leave Iris somewhere, make it close-ish to Central City or in Star City specifically-- or even Coast City and Iris calls up Linda Park? Just so we know that Barry is thoughtful enough to not expect his date to take public transit back down the coast on a reporter's salary, okay?  Or have them talk about contingency meeting spots if something goes down. Just a sentence that shows they have put some forethought into this relationship.

 

I would have given him a pass, except that Joe texted him about work and presumably, Barry wouldn't have known how long he would be. Even with super speed, Joe/Julian could have held him at work for a lot longer than a couple of minutes. I assume he did go back and finish the date, but damn if he didn't make that clear to Iris. He was just like "I gotta go" with Iris encouraging him and then he's gone. 

[Gregg247]

Barry kisses Iris like she's his sister......oh, wait.

"Barry, you were like my second daughter." LOL

I hope Iris is prepared for an extremely fast "first time" with Barry.   BARRY: You want to do it again?    IRIS: What do you mean "AGAIN"?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Seriously? Wally is jealous his powers haven't manifested like Jessie's, so he thinks to do the same thing that she did when her powers manifested? And until the near end, Jessie was acting like a spoiled brat. How old is she supposed to be? 17? 18? I wanna use my powers! I wanna use my powers! I wanna use my powers! Instead of listening to her father, to at least hear him out, she runs off like a...spoiled brat.

Bad enough they've changed how Wally got his powers, now I have to listen to him whine about it and not tell Joe or Barry about hearing Alchemy in his dreams?

The only part, well two parts that I enjoyed were Barry's "It 'tis" even though it was supposed to be It is. I loved Barry's eye rolling toward Julian.

The second, Iris' dress at the end. I want it.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but did the Original Wells and the "team" if you will, tell Barry to take it slow until he was able to handle his powers? 

It's becoming more of a chore to continue to watch this show. Yet I'm sticking with it.

I think I'll go watch Young Justice and Justice League to get my real Wally Wests. Because this show's whiny and jealous Wally is just pissing me off.

[catrice2]

The other thing that is bothering me is that Barry does not seem overly concerned with fixing what he has altered in others lives.  He knows that he has changed the SEX of Diggle's child and lord knows what else, but he is off having a date with Iris?   So far this season is not quite as bad as last, but no where near as good as the 1st one.  It is actually very boring,  and spare me another Wells, Welles, Thawne or whatever.  

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

The other thing that is bothering me is that Barry does not seem overly concerned with fixing what he has altered in others lives.  He knows that he has changed the SEX of Diggle's child and lord knows what else, but he is off having a date with Iris?   So far this season is not quite as bad as last, but no where near as good as the 1st one.  It is actually very boring,  and spare me another Wells, Welles, Thawne or whatever.  

But Barry has to learn to forgive himself more! 

Sadly, the show has structured itself so that any attempt by Barry to fix anything is now viewed as a mistake that will only make things worse.  We're supposed to just accept it now. 

[Trini]

Wait - how is Barry supposed to fix the sex of Diggle's child? (Or anything else?) Not time travel - what everyone has been complaining about, and we know it will only cause more timeline changes - so how?

[catrice2]

Somehow they will have someone else fix  it, possibly Dr. Alchemy 

[zannej]

14 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

Barry kisses Iris like she's his sister......oh, wait.

"Barry, you were like my second daughter." LOL

I hope Iris is prepared for an extremely fast "first time" with Barry.   BARRY: You want to do it again?    IRIS: What do you mean "AGAIN"?

LOL! For some reason I thought of a scene from the original Flash TV series where Barry was in bed with Iris and was asking her if she was disappointed and she said something about it being over too fast and what was the point of going through the trouble if it was just going to end so quickly. They were clearly trying to lead the audience to believe it was about sex but then it turned out to be about a pay per view boxing match.

11 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Seriously? Wally is jealous his powers haven't manifested like Jessie's, so he thinks to do the same thing that she did when her powers manifested? And until the near end, Jessie was acting like a spoiled brat. How old is she supposed to be? 17? 18? I wanna use my powers! I wanna use my powers! I wanna use my powers! Instead of listening to her father, to at least hear him out, she runs off like a...spoiled brat.

Bad enough they've changed how Wally got his powers, now I have to listen to him whine about it and not tell Joe or Barry about hearing Alchemy in his dreams?

The only part, well two parts that I enjoyed were Barry's "It 'tis" even though it was supposed to be It is. I loved Barry's eye rolling toward Julian.

The second, Iris' dress at the end. I want it.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but did the Original Wells and the "team" if you will, tell Barry to take it slow until he was able to handle his powers? 

It's becoming more of a chore to continue to watch this show. Yet I'm sticking with it.

I think I'll go watch Young Justice and Justice League to get my real Wally Wests. Because this show's whiny and jealous Wally is just pissing me off.

I think that Jesse *is* spoiled. She's an only child and Harry is a widower so I think he let her have her way a lot. As tough as he can be with other people, he is obviously a big softie when it comes to her. I don't think strict discipline was part of her upbringing. She is also at the age where she might feel like she's an adult, but her brain is still not fully developed in terms of impulse control. So, she's going through the phase where she wants to be treated like an adult, but is not really thinking things through. And Harry doesn't know how to deal with her. It can be tough for parents to handle the transition in their children. It requires modifying the relationship and how they act. Just saying "Because I said so" is no longer productive.

7 hours ago, Trini said:

Wait - how is Barry supposed to fix the sex of Diggle's child? (Or anything else?) Not time travel - what everyone has been complaining about, and we know it will only cause more timeline changes - so how?

Exactly. If Barry goes back again, for all we know it could make it so Diggle has no children at all.