S03.E03: Magenta

[tennisgurl]

Glad to see Harry and Jessie back! They can stay as long as they want to. I just LOVE that Harry knew instantly that Barry had screwed with the time stream. "Damn it Barry, I've been gone for a week and you've already created like 5 alternate timelines"! 

Actually, "Damn it Barry" could be the tagline of this whole franchise.

To be fair though, Barry was by far not the dumbest person in this episode. That prize goes to Wally (lets jump in front of a car!) or Julian (lets scream at the emotionally unstable meta human teenager!). How did either of those seem like good ideas? Especially Julian. No wonder they normally leave him in the back room. 

I found Barry and Irises dates to be cute. They were awkward, but charming. Can they just stay together now, please?!?!

Edited October 21, 2016 by tennisgurl

[zannej]

I'm seriously thinking of making a DamnitBarry tumblr and post a bunch of memes involving flashpoint or showing cast in alternate roles with "Damnit, Barry!" as the caption. Already made one meme with Tom Cavanagh in a raft with Yogi Bear.

I still think Julian did that deliberately to trigger Magenta to come out-- which is why he told Barry to come with him. I mean, this guy has been NOT wanting to let Barry get involved and has been trying to keep him away from studying the evidence for the most part. Barry has to ask for files to look at and all of a sudden he wants Barry to come along? IMO, he knows Barry is the Flash and wanted him there to save the day just in case. Maybe he was hoping Magenta would curbstomp Barry.

[scarynikki12]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Actually, "Damn it Barry" could be the tagline of this whole franchise.

It applies to basically anything.  Just today I've applied it to both Gotham and Legends of Tomorrow.  It can be the new "Oh, Laurel" of comic television.

[Trini]

I suppose he's a better scapegoat for those who need to complain. Being the lead, he's not likely to get killed off. I guess I just don't get the need to put down certain characters in completely unrelated discussions.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Flash Pits Red Against Magenta

Magenta's too strong to fight, so Barry tries talking to her. We should run for cover, right?

[legaleagle53]

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Glad to see Harry and Jessie back! They can stay as long as they want to. I just LOVE that Harry knew instantly that Barry had screwed with the time stream. "Damn it Barry, I've been gone for a week and you've already created like 5 alternate timelines"! 

Actually, "Damn it Barry" could be the tagline of this whole franchise.

To be fair though, Barry was by far not the dumbest person in this episode. That prize goes to Wally (lets jump in front of a car!) 

Yeah, I thought it funny that Barry was the one who came down the hardest on Wally for being so stupid.  I guess with all the times Barry's been given the "What the hell were you thinking?" lecture, he's got it down to the point that he could give Wally the same lecture without missing a note. As Joe said when Barry asked him if there was anything that he wanted to add, "No, I think you pretty much covered it."

And yeah, when Barry thinks you're a fucking idiot, what does that say about you, Wally?

[BkWurm1]

21 hours ago, Trini said:

I suppose he's a better scapegoat for those who need to complain. Being the lead, he's not likely to get killed off. I guess I just don't get the need to put down certain characters in completely unrelated discussions.

They're not going to give me Baby Sara back.  I need to find my satisfaction somewhere.

[Karlophe]

Count me as another one who was thoroughly bemused at Barry's terrified parent takedown of Wally. Not only for Joe's pointedly restrained expression, which was hilarious, but for the development of the Kid!/Flash relationship proper. The beginnings of that partnership is one of the things I was looking forward to seeing the most this season, and I've been tickled by the hints of it we've seen so far. I loved Flashpoint Wally. I loved his humour and impulsivity. I loved how easily a camaraderie was established between him and Barry, and was genuinely touched at Barry's attack hug when he came home to the current timeline and Wally, while clearly taken aback, just rolling with it anyway. Him being the only one to support Barry's (admittedly terrible) group retreat offer at last episodes Thoroughly Awkward Dinner, but also openly questioning his actions when he admitted what he'd done to the timeline all bode well for me - he supports him while still calling out him out when necessary. Wally's actions here were very stupid to say the least (and he certainly wasn't in any mood to listen to Barry's grumping about it afterwards) but it's the sort of thing I can see forcing the both of them to take an honest look at themselves afterward, which can only be a good thing. 

As stated upthread, Barry is someone with plenty of experience with impulsive decision making who has himself been at the receiving end of many such tirades. Here, he was still clearly shaken by what had happened to Flashpoint! Wally; something I can see being something of a leavening influence on him going forward. He made a mistake, but he's clearly learning from it - the full repercussions haven't even been fully realized, and I think he's starting to see that. He can't rush in, at least not as thoughtlessly as he used to, without considering the consequences of his actions. It was rather a sweet moment, between his obvious worry for Wally and impending mentorship of sorts to Jesse, seeing the shoe start to shift to the other foot for him. 

[zannej]

Very good points, Karlophe.

I want to "like" several posts, but whenever I try it takes me to another page with the following message:

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Error code: 2S119/1

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 10/18/2016 at 9:14 PM, Jediknight said:

Loved Harry knowing right away that Barry had went back in time.  I want Harry and Jesse to stick around for as long as possible.

 

On 10/18/2016 at 9:17 PM, ParadoxLost said:

Since Earth 2 is not changed by Flashpoint, does that mean that one of the key differences is that SNL did Wayne's World twenty five years later?

I don't get how Earth 2 was NOT changed by Flashpoint -- a marginally different timeline played out, but Harry and Jessie should have been aware of those changes since they were part of that altered timeline.  And shouldn't be aware of any differences like "oh, hey look we've never been in the speed lab before".

Parallel worlds and alternate realities just aren't the same thing, so Alchemy summoning all this information for the alternative Flashpoint doesn't make sense.  That would mean Alchemy should also be aware of the original unaltered timeline (with no intervention by Reverse Flash)-- where the particle accelerator explosion occurred 10 years later and create metahumans, the reality created by the intervention of Reverse Flash to kill Barry's mom (where the Weather Wizard destroyed Central City with a tsunami), the next reality where Barry went back in time to stop the Weather Wizards, and so on and so forth.  There's so many different realities it's tough trying to keep track -- but in each reality Harry and Jessie would have different memories of what happened.

[BkWurm1]

E2 was not changed by Flashpoint because their timeline on E2 couldn't be affected by the changes on E1.  The paradox is that there had to be a version of Harry and Jessie that came from E2 and existed in the new timeline so that they'd have the same memories as Caitlin and Cisco and Joe and Iris.  BUT they aren't the same Harry and Jessie that went home to E2 before Barry messed with the timeline.  Once they left E1 in the original timeline, they were immune to changes because their universe is a completely separate entity from E1.  Their timeline kept moving forward.  Their memories of the past did not change, but they now would remember a timeline that never existed on E1 (just like Barry).  While another version of Harry and Jessie WOULD remember the altered timeline. 

It seems like a paradox but the multi verse theory accounts for it by saying another reality or universe would be created to support the new ongoing timeline.  Basically an E2.1 was created.  The altered Harry and Jessie went home to that universe while the original Harry and Jessie kept living their lives in the original E2. 

Really, if the show wanted to stay true to it's very messy multiverse/timeline change rules, the Harry and Jessie that shared the same memories as the rest of the team (minus Barry) could also pop in from their universe for some help with Jessie's speed...though maybe that version didn't get speed and thus there'd be no reason to return. 

As for your take on Alchemy. I think you are totally right.  It doesn't make sense

[ottoDbusdriver]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

E2 was not changed by Flashpoint because their timeline on E2 couldn't be affected by the changes on E1.  The paradox is that there had to be a version of Harry and Jessie that came from E2 and existed in the new timeline so that they'd have the same memories as Caitlin and Cisco and Joe and Iris.  BUT they aren't the same Harry and Jessie that went home to E2 before Barry messed with the timeline.  Once they left E1 in the original timeline, they were immune to changes because their universe is a completely separate entity from E1.  Their timeline kept moving forward.  Their memories of the past did not change, but they now would remember a timeline that never existed on E1 (just like Barry).  While another version of Harry and Jessie WOULD remember the altered timeline. 

It seems like a paradox but the multi verse theory accounts for it by saying another reality or universe would be created to support the new ongoing timeline.  Basically an E2.1 was created.  The altered Harry and Jessie went home to that universe while the original Harry and Jessie kept living their lives in the original E2. 

Really, if the show wanted to stay true to it's very messy multiverse/timeline change rules, the Harry and Jessie that shared the same memories as the rest of the team (minus Barry) could also pop in from their universe for some help with Jessie's speed...though maybe that version didn't get speed and thus there'd be no reason to return. 

As for your take on Alchemy. I think you are totally right.  It doesn't make sense

Awesome breakdown -- now we have to see if the writers adhere to this theory.

[AudienceofOne]

Quote

It seems like a paradox but the multi verse theory accounts for it by saying another reality or universe would be created to support the new ongoing timeline.  Basically an E2.1 was created.  The altered Harry and Jessie went home to that universe while the original Harry and Jessie kept living their lives in the original E2. 

The problem with that is that there is no E1 and E2 'timeline'. There are an infinite number of Earth's and Barry created a new one. So either Wells should have gone to 'our' 'original' timeline (which still exists) or he should have seen this E1 as actually being E52 or whatever. The response to things being different is 'different reality' not 'Barry's fucked up again'. (Although, even in a multiverse I doubt there's a reality where Barry isn't a total fuckup).

My point is, either we accept the multiverse theory of time travel or we don't. This show seems determined to want to incorporate both concepts - a single linear timeline and the multiverse. Since Barry can hop universes with speed and his feelings (no, really), under the multiverse theory he should be trying to get back to his Earth, not talking about having 'changed things'. After all, that's what happened when he ended up in  Supergirl's reality. He jumped back to his own using speed. Under the multiverse theory of time travel, he could do the same thing right now and find 'his' timeline again, since it is in another dimension.

Edited October 31, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[BkWurm1]

10 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

The problem with that is that there is no E1 and E2 'timeline'. There are an infinite number of Earth's and Barry created a new one. So either Wells should have gone to 'our' 'original' timeline (which still exists) or he should have seen this E1 as actually being E52 or whatever. The response to things being different is 'different reality' not 'Barry's fucked up again'. (Although, even in a multiverse I doubt there's a reality where Barry isn't a total fuckup).

My point is, either we accept the multiverse theory of time travel or we don't. This show seems determined to want to incorporate both concepts - a single linear timeline and the multiverse. Since Barry can hop universes with speed and his feelings (no, really), under the multiverse theory he should be trying to get back to his Earth, not talking about having 'changed things'. After all, that's what happened when he ended up in  Supergirl's reality. He jumped back to his own using speed. Under the multiverse theory of time travel, he could do the same thing right now and find 'his' timeline again, since it is in another dimension.

I would disagree with your premise on realities vs timelines.  On this show they are separate things.  

Now I understand that one of the tenets of the multiverse theory (from theoretic physics, I'm not familiar with what they say in the comics) does say that there would be a universe for every variation of choice to play out, but on The Flash, what we've seen is that Barry and co found a way to travel to specific earths like hoping continents and that within each universe, the timeline is linear and totally separate from other universes.  It's the same kind of premise they did on Dr. Who.  

So when Barry changes something in the past, the future that we had in our universe, ceases to exist going forward.  It had to have existed so that Barry could exist to go back, but when Barry does goes back, the timeline he was in doesn't continue on without him.  It dead ends and loops back to the past where now the new timeline branches off and while that old time line happened, the old time line is basically a demolished road that could only come back into existence if it was rebuilt by Barry once again going back in time and making the exact same choices as in the first timeline.  There's no reaching anything in that timeline as long as the new one created by different choices is still going forward.   

The only instance where Barry had to have inadvertently created a universe was to account for the paradox of Flashpoint Wells and Jesse having to have had returned to a different E2 than the one that original timeline Wells and Jesse had already returned to where they were thus insulated from E1 timeline changes.  But while in that case there would be an E2 and an E2.1 going forward, there still was only the one liner timeline on E1.  What Barry and Wells and Jesse remember happening on E1 now is gone except in their memories.       

Barry's time travels only creates a new universe if his time travel creates a paradox that can't be solved unless it creates a new reality going forward.  

Easy peasy.  ;)

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm kind of curious why the timewraiths don't show up more often considering how many times the timeline is changed by Barry -- but yet don't show up at all on LoT.

Were the timewraiths controlled by the TimeMasters -- or by somebody else ?

Edited October 31, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[zannej]

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I'm kind of curious why the timewraiths don't show up more often considering how many times the timeline is changed by Barry -- but yet don't show up at all on LoT.

Were the timewraiths controlled by the TimeMasters -- or by somebody else ?

I think they indicated that the time wraiths specifically target speedsters. They also indicated that they go after speedsters who don't know what they are doing. I still wonder how Barry was able to find the wraiths and communicate to them that he had someone for them to go after without them going after him. If he was able to communicate it means that they can be reasoned with to an extent. Barry didn't encounter them a few times out of sheer luck.

It would be interesting if they were mentioned on LoT at some point. It would also be nice to find out more about the other speedsters Eobard was referencing when he said something like "we usually avoid them."

[AudienceofOne]

15 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I would disagree with your premise on realities vs timelines.  On this show they are separate things.  

As they are in physics, as well. Just because you have a multiverse does not mean you have to subscribe to the multiverse theory of time travel. However, a multiverse theory of time travel does require a multiverse to function. However the new dimensions are created, once they exist then there would be no difference between one created through time travel and one that existed anyway.

Quote

Now I understand that one of the tenets of the multiverse theory (from theoretic physics, I'm not familiar with what they say in the comics) does say that there would be a universe for every variation of choice to play out, but on The Flash, what we've seen is that Barry and co found a way to travel to specific earths like hoping continents and that within each universe, the timeline is linear and totally separate from other universes.

No argument here. My point in referencing linear time was the pre-multiverse concept i.e. Terminator and Back to the Future. A linear timeline means that a change in the past changes the future rather than creating a new universe and so paradoxes are possible. My argument was that the show seems to be trying to use BOTH and it makes no sense (ref - Eddie Thawne killing himself to kill Eobard Thawne).

Quote

So when Barry changes something in the past, the future that we had in our universe, ceases to exist going forward.  It had to have existed so that Barry could exist to go back, but when Barry does goes back, the timeline he was in doesn't continue on without him.  It dead ends and loops back to the past where now the new timeline branches off and while that old time line happened the old time line is basically a demolished road that could only come back into existence if it was rebuilt by Barry once again going back in time and making the exact same choices as in the first timeline.  There's no reaching anything in that timeline as long as the new one created by different choices is still going forward.

  No, it isn't. Barry now exists in a new universe he created but the original universe has to still exist or otherwise he would never have had a place to come back from. It's actually why the multiverse theory of time travel exists at all. It's the only way to allow for paradoxes like this. Continuum, for example, used the multiverse theory of time travel brilliantly. The desired reality of the Traveller was always so tantalisingly close but so far away because he had no way to cross universes. He could only keep using time travel to try to create new universes that would hopefully recreate his own original timeline.

If Barry's original universe was destroyed when he jumped then we're back to a linear concept of time travel. There is only one timeline. As I said, this is a different, older time travel concept (and probably the one the original comics were operating under because the multiverse theory of time travel came later). But they can't then start talking about the multiverse or do things like having Eobard Thawne still alive even though Eddie killed him by killing himself.

Quote

Barry's time travels only creates a new universe if his time travel creates a paradox that can't be solved unless it creates a new reality going forward.  

Agreed. But the death of his mother was the impetus for him becoming the Flash so him saving her was a paradox. The fact he was still a Flash in Flashpoint despite his parents being alive proved it. Because he shouldn't have been. The only explanation for it is that he was now stuck in a new universe with his original universe intact.

Edited October 31, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I would disagree with your premise on realities vs timelines.  On this show they are separate things.  

Now I understand that one of the tenets of the multiverse theory (from theoretic physics, I'm not familiar with what they say in the comics) does say that there would be a universe for every variation of choice to play out, but on The Flash, what we've seen is that Barry and co found a way to travel to specific earths like hoping continents and that within each universe, the timeline is linear and totally separate from other universes.  It's the same kind of premise they did on Dr. Who.  

So when Barry changes something in the past, the future that we had in our universe, ceases to exist going forward.  It had to have existed so that Barry could exist to go back, but when Barry does goes back, the timeline he was in doesn't continue on without him.  It dead ends and loops back to the past where now the new timeline branches off and while that old time line happened, the old time line is basically a demolished road that could only come back into existence if it was rebuilt by Barry once again going back in time and making the exact same choices as in the first timeline.  There's no reaching anything in that timeline as long as the new one created by different choices is still going forward.   

The only instance where Barry had to have inadvertently created a universe was to account for the paradox of Flashpoint Wells and Jesse having to have had returned to a different E2 than the one that original timeline Wells and Jesse had already returned to where they were thus insulated from E1 timeline changes.  But while in that case there would be an E2 and an E2.1 going forward, there still was only the one liner timeline on E1.  What Barry and Wells and Jesse remember happening on E1 now is gone except in their memories.       

Barry's time travels only creates a new universe if his time travel creates a paradox that can't be solved unless it creates a new reality going forward.  

Easy peasy.  ;)

 

5 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

As they are in physics, as well. Just because you have a multiverse does not mean you have to subscribe to the multiverse theory of time travel. However, a multiverse theory of time travel does require a multiverse to function. However the new dimensions are created, once they exist then there would be no difference between one created through time travel and one that existed anyway.

No argument here. My point in referencing linear time was the pre-multiverse concept i.e. Terminator and Back to the Future. A linear timeline means that a change in the past changes the future rather than creating a new universe and so paradoxes are possible. My argument was that the show seems to be trying to use BOTH and it makes no sense (ref - Eddie Thawne killing himself to kill Eobard Thawne).

  No, it isn't. Barry now exists in a new universe he created but the original universe has to still exist or otherwise he would never have had a place to come back from. It's actually why the multiverse theory of time travel exists at all. It's the only way to allow for paradoxes like this. Continuum, for example, used the multiverse theory of time travel brilliantly. The desired reality of the Traveller was always so tantalisingly close but so far away because he had no way to cross universes. He could only keep using time travel to try to create new universes that would hopefully recreate his own original timeline.

If Barry's original universe was destroyed when he jumped then we're back to a linear concept of time travel. There is only one timeline. As I said, this is a different, older time travel concept (and probably the one the original comics were operating under because the multiverse theory of time travel came later). But they can't then start talking about the multiverse or do things like having Eobard Thawne still alive even though Eddie killed him by killing himself.

Agreed. But the death of his mother was the impetus for him becoming the Flash so him saving her was a paradox. The fact he was still a Flash in Flashpoint despite his parents being alive proved it. Because he shouldn't have been. The only explanation for it is that he was now stuck in a new universe with his original universe intact.

Y'all are making my HEAD HURT with this discussion of time travel!Flashpoint!Paradox!MultiVerse!

And now I'm totally confused how we have the present timeline we do!

Thanks a heaps @BkWurm1 and @AudienceofOne!

Now where's my Exedrin for Migraine??

[BkWurm1]

Quote

As they are in physics, as well. Just because you have a multiverse does not mean you have to subscribe to the multiverse theory of time travel. However, a multiverse theory of time travel does require a multiverse to function. However the new dimensions are created, once they exist then there would be no difference between one created through time travel and one that existed anyway.

But in this show, time travel is something that happens with in the boundaries of each specific universe/reality.  Each universe is walled off and with in it, is one linear time stream.  And normal time travel withing that universe won't produce new universes. The exception is what happens when there is a change to the linear time line involving people now back in their own walled off universe (and therefore not affected)  

In both timelines (original and Flashpoint) Harry leaves E2 and comes to E1.  But on the way over since original timeline Wells from E2 returned to his Earth with his original E1 linear timeline intact, he has to keep existing but so does the Wells that went to E1 in the Flashpoint timeline.  Really, the creation of E2.1 had to have happened the moment Flashpoint Wells tried to return to E2.  

I suppose there actually is a certain logic that says there should be one E2 but perhaps 2 Wells, each with different experiences on E1 who would return to one E2.  But since that's not what happened on The Flash, I assume the paradox was resolved with the creation of a E2.1 instead, lol.  

Quote

No argument here. My point in referencing linear time was the pre-multiverse concept i.e. Terminator and Back to the Future. A linear timeline means that a change in the past changes the future rather than creating a new universe and so paradoxes are possible. My argument was that the show seems to be trying to use BOTH and it makes no sense (ref - Eddie Thawne killing himself to kill Eobard Thawne).

But the show is using both and for the most part, I don't find it so illogical for there to be a single linear time line for each universe.  I do agree that occasionally, time traveling creates new universes (as mentioned above) but normally just traveling back in time and changing things would not.  It would be the case of rewriting history.

 The new universes only would be created when you start messing with the time line of people existing in both the original timeline  and the rewritten timeline of E1 while coming from an outside universe and crossing back and forth.  

I guess my argument really is that  Eddie killing himself to kill Eobard but that somehow not totally changing everything, that isn't a paradox or the creation of a new universe, that's just crap writing because there is no way to explain it using any of the many versions of time travel or multiverse theory.  It's like the time remnant nonsense.  It's something I have to ignore because nothing I can argue supports it as any kind of logic.  There's no logical use of multiverses to explain it.  I'd argue there's no illogical use of multiverses to explain it either.  It just doesn't work.  It breaks every rule and even the emergence of a new universe won't fix the terrible writing.  

 

Quote

  No, it isn't. Barry now exists in a new universe he created but the original universe has to still exist or otherwise he would never have had a place to come back from. It's actually why the multiverse theory of time travel exists at all. It's the only way to allow for paradoxes like this.

Maybe calling the time line linear is the wrong description since what we're getting are these splintered dead end branches that were there, but no longer are because time was rewound and sent in a differnt direction.  

Quote

If Barry's original universe was destroyed when he jumped then we're back to a linear concept of time travel. There is only one timeline. As I said, this is a different, older time travel concept (and probably the one the original comics were operating under because the multiverse theory of time travel came later). But they can't then start talking about the multiverse or do things like having Eobard Thawne still alive even though Eddie killed him by killing himself.

I agree that they can't have Eobard existing after Eddie killed himself, but no one has been able to explian to me how a multiverse theory could explain it.   

Quote

Agreed. But the death of his mother was the impetus for him becoming the Flash so him saving her was a paradox. The fact he was still a Flash in Flashpoint despite his parents being alive proved it. Because he shouldn't have been. The only explanation for it is that he was now stuck in a new universe with his original universe intact.

But this is negated by the fact that Barry was losing his powers and was losing his memories of the original timeline as the first Flashpoint timeline solidified.  That's a concept they came up with on LoT, that it takes time for time to reset and become unchangeable after there are changes.  So Barry losing his powers and memories in Flashpoint tells us that his original timeline was being erased.  

What it doesn't explain is why you know they are going to let him keep his original memories in this new only slightly altered timeline (I'm going with a combo of the changes being so slight and his exposure to the speedforce letting him off that hook)

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Y'all are making my HEAD HURT with this discussion of time travel!Flashpoint!Paradox!MultiVerse!

And now I'm totally confused how we have the present timeline we do!

Thanks a heaps @BkWurm1 and @AudienceofOne!

Now where's my Exedrin for Migraine??

Muhwahahahaha!  My work here is done! 

I am still waiting to hear whether Barry's time travel has left Eobard alive again somehow (but then were is Eddie who would have no reason to kill himself) or if he's still destroyed and it just hasn't happened yet in the timeline Eobard is pinging around on.  

Edited November 1, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Argenta]

I have really appreciated you guys' careful unpicking of all the timey-wimey stuff. You're right, it isn't consistent at all and there's no getting around that. 

The closest thing we have to an explanation as to why Eobard still exists is Harry's improvised waffling about 'he was protected by being in the Speed Force' or something like that. If we accept this as true, then even if Eobard himself was protected, Eddie's death should still have wiped out the rest of the Thawne family, or at least the direct line that led from Eddie to Eobard. So if/when Eobard returns to his own time, perhaps he'll find that his home, parents, siblings etc are all gone and he's existing as a holdover whom no-one else remembers. 

Hey, that finally gives him a halfway decent reason to be mad at Barry!  :p

(Got any more Excedrin, GHScorpiosRule? I could do with a couple myself. )

[zannej]

7 hours ago, Argenta said:

I have really appreciated you guys' careful unpicking of all the timey-wimey stuff. You're right, it isn't consistent at all and there's no getting around that. 

The closest thing we have to an explanation as to why Eobard still exists is Harry's improvised waffling about 'he was protected by being in the Speed Force' or something like that. If we accept this as true, then even if Eobard himself was protected, Eddie's death should still have wiped out the rest of the Thawne family, or at least the direct line that led from Eddie to Eobard. So if/when Eobard returns to his own time, perhaps he'll find that his home, parents, siblings etc are all gone and he's existing as a holdover whom no-one else remembers. 

Hey, that finally gives him a halfway decent reason to be mad at Barry!  :p

(Got any more Excedrin, GHScorpiosRule? I could do with a couple myself. )

Eobard returning home and finding his family wiped out is actually what I was guessing happened to cause him to hate Barry so much. That he assumed that it was Barry who was responsible for it and believed that if he stopped Barry from becoming the Flash, then his family would not get wiped out and he would still have a place back home. It makes more sense as a motivation than just being mad that he couldn't BE the Flash. I mean, I think maybe there was that initially, but I think that losing his family is what provoked him to desperation. Note that he said "Nothing is forgiven" and his speech to Eddie indicated that his job, home, family, etc all just vanished. Now, that could have been about being stuck back there, but I don't know if he would use those same terms if it were just that he was marooned indefinitely. He was adamant that he would get back "*everything* that was taken from" him.