S01.E04: The Pool

[possibilities]

I'm astounded that so many people are so upset and angry about how Yvette spoke to Rebecca. All she said is that she knew who Rebecca was, that they all notice. I didn't even think it was that snarky; I thought it was giving Rebecca the awareness that they notice-- and moreover that they care and want to know her. White people often have way less awareness about being watched than Black people in this country. Of course the local community notices. And yes, maybe Yvette was a little disappointed and put off, wondering why Rebecca had not introduced herself-- and why Randall was not allowed to stay even after Yvette reassured her that it was OK, and Rebecca knew he was not drowned or kidnapped or in any other danger. But despite Rebecca not returning the friendliness and being relieved that Randall had some friends and that the other mother was welcoming to him, and she continued to snub Yvette and the other Black moms and not want to know them, I still didn't think Yvette was  coming across extremely hostile or out of line. She was put off, but that seems totally fair to me. Imagine it from her point of view.

I think there is a filter being put over Yvette's behavior that defaults to an interpretation that "she should stay in her place" and totally supports what Randall has been saying about the double standard, how he can never get angry, how people assume the worst and lack empathy or understanding of his position, and even when he's right, he has to be grateful and apologetic and never let anyone see how it feels.

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, scatteroflight said:

I don't think there has to be any complicated reason. Sometimes kids stop being friends, for a million different reasons. In the meantime, it's entirely possible that Rebecca and Yvette's friendship grew as Yvette was helping Rebecca (and Jack) learn to parent Randall. It might be as simple as Yvette becoming a family friend.

Or it could be as simple as that someone was taking the picture, maybe the someone is Yvette's child/Randall's friend.  Or since it's only partial, maybe someone is sitting or kneeling on the ground in the foreground.

[scatteroflight]

8 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I'm astounded that so many people are so upset and angry about how Yvette spoke to Rebecca.

I agree, possibilities. I was more put off by Rebecca's reaction to Yvette than vice versa. Rebecca couldn't wait to get out of there and go back to where she felt safe. She came across as extremely cold and defensive. While it's entirely possible that she felt she was being criticized by Yvette, as you mentioned, there was nothing in either Yvette's words or tone to back that up. My only conclusion is that her reaction came not from the interaction itself but from her own insecurities and anxiety about how the world perceived her as Randall's mother. In my mind, Yvette really did nothing wrong.

(Apropos of nothing, but I saw someone mention earlier in this thread that the actress who played Yvette is Sterling K. Brown's wife; what a stunning couple!)

ShadowFacts, that's very true, and an even more simple explanation. :)

[romantic idiot]

Basically the picture is the twist this episode, as mentioned earlier. It's clever.

[ShadowFacts]

39 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think there is a filter being put over Yvette's behavior that defaults to an interpretation that "she should stay in her place" and totally supports what Randall has been saying about the double standard, how he can never get angry, how people assume the worst and lack empathy or understanding of his position, and even when he's right, he has to be grateful and apologetic and never let anyone see how it feels.

I tend to agree.  They were both a little chippy, but my impression is that some of the comments want Yvette to have taken a certain or different tone, as if there are two different standards.  Maybe that's me being defensive, we all have our lenses we see things through. 

[izabella]

1 hour ago, luna1122 said:

oh, thanks proudmary! That's interesting. She's hugging Kevin, so yeah, looks like she become a real family friend, especially since this was displayed at Randall's house. None of her kids, if she has more than one. And some were speculating that she and Jack have an affair, but would Randall have this pic if so, even IF Jack and Yvette wound up married? Pretty creepy to display the pic of mom AND stepmom, unless everyone is just all fine with it. I don't know. Weirder things happen, I guess.

Maybe Yvette's kid took the picture.

ETA:  Whoops, I see ShadowFacts already posted with that thought.

Edited October 21, 2016 by izabella

[GodsBeloved]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:29 AM, ChromaKelly said:

Anyway, I feel like the onus is on the adoptive parent to seek out racial mirrors and build bridges.

I agree. My argument is if it was absolutely Yvette's place/right to make sure Randall was being cared for properly, then it was her responsibility to maximize the chances of Rebecca being receptive to receiving instruction from her. If this is simply about Randall's well being and not about any real or perceived snub of Yvette and the other mothers by Rebecca, that initial meeting wasn't the time for Yvette to inform Rebecca that she knew exactly who Rebecca was and do it in a tone that to me sounded like a chiding. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar and this is about Randall's well being not about Yvette, the black woman having to bend over backwards to appease or handle the white woman with kid gloves or about Yvette being held to a different standard.

Rebecca should have calmed her nerves before approaching Randall. If she had done that maybe she would have taken in the scene better and instead of snatching Randall up, she may have asked if he wanted to stay where he was. She could have even stayed over there with him if she didn't feel comfortable leaving him with strangers and that could have given her the chance to begin a dialogue with Yvette.

Edited October 22, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[SueB]

I think this show could be re-labeled "This Is Therapy" because I can relate to some aspect for each child and see it in their (and my) adulthood.  I don't watch these episodes, I process them.

[Sake614]

To the poster asking what 8-year-old wears a bikini, that would be me. And both my nieces and great nieces. And just about every one of my friends when we were that age. I'm not sure I see the problem with it? No one was/is trying to be sexy, and i can't tell you why I wore a bikini instead of a one piece, but I did. Of course it was 1968 when I was 8 years old, so it likely also was the times. But I see lots of young girls (and toddlers) in bikinis today. I guess I just never gave it any thought. It's just a swim suit. 

[Texasmom1970]

I agree with all the love others have posted about this show. The acting is so freaking amazing, that is all I have.

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm astounded that so many people are so upset and angry about how Yvette spoke to Rebecca. All she said is that she knew who Rebecca was, that they all notice. I didn't even think it was that snarky; I thought it was giving Rebecca the awareness that they notice-- and moreover that they care and want to know her. White people often have way less awareness about being watched than Black people in this country. Of course the local community notices. And yes, maybe Yvette was a little disappointed and put off, wondering why Rebecca had not introduced herself-- and why Randall was not allowed to stay even after Yvette reassured her that it was OK, and Rebecca knew he was not drowned or kidnapped or in any other danger. But despite Rebecca not returning the friendliness and being relieved that Randall had some friends and that the other mother was welcoming to him, and she continued to snub Yvette and the other Black moms and not want to know them, I still didn't think Yvette was  coming across extremely hostile or out of line. She was put off, but that seems totally fair to me. Imagine it from her point of view.

I think there is a filter being put over Yvette's behavior that defaults to an interpretation that "she should stay in her place" and totally supports what Randall has been saying about the double standard, how he can never get angry, how people assume the worst and lack empathy or understanding of his position, and even when he's right, he has to be grateful and apologetic and never let anyone see how it feels.

I can't remember who said it, but someone put it in an excellent way: it's more of a miscommunication on both ends that definitely led to Rebecca feeling hostile and attacked, just like Yvette might have felt inferior to someone like Rebecca. I found Yvette's tone very telling that she might have been judging Rebecca. I do think both came across bad in their initial conversation, but the main point is that Rebecca went to ask Yvette for the barber's number. She did make the first step, and that clearly eventually leads to a friendship between the families. They clearly get over their initial meeting, which is good. 

But I've rewatched that scene several times now (the initial meeting) and I honestly felt like Yvette was less than inviting toward Rebecca. It's mostly her line of "When a white family adopts a black child and doesn't introduce themselves to any of us, we tend to take notice" has a personal tone to it. Not Yvette's fault, of course, but she's definitely judging Rebecca before knowing her. 

I think Yvette was misjudging Rebecca, just as Rebecca was doing the same to her. Rebecca tried to be friendly to Yvette; she stuck out her hand for Yvette to shake after she found Randall, but Yvette's tone got Rebecca to act hostile back. If Yvette had been less passive aggressive, I don't think Rebecca would have been quite as harsh. However, the question remains: would Rebecca have gone back to ask for that number? Maybe, maybe not. But Rebecca was also making assumptions about Yvette's intentions. And then she stuck her foot in her mouth unintentionally, so there was definitely just a case of miscommunication in this instance. 

I just found Yvette to be a bit passive aggressive in that initial meeting. She had good intentions, and I totally understand why she might not have wandered over to tell Rebecca/Jack about where Randall was, but she could have steered that conversation in a better direction. However, things definitely worked out in their second meeting. Rewatching that scene as well, Yvette seemed pleasantly surprised that Rebecca came back over to ask for that number. It's as if she was surprised that Rebecca would even consider that. I know that Rebecca needed to make that step, and she even recognized that Randall probably needed to be around more black families, so it's good. 

[Dowel Jones]

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think Yvette was misjudging Rebecca, just as Rebecca was doing the same to her

I think that was the undercurrent of the entire episode; how people view the world through the lens of their own life.  Which, of course, leads to miscommunications and misjudgements.

[possibilities]

6 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

My argument is if it was absolutely Yvette's place/right to make sure Randall was being cared for properly, then it was her responsibility to maximize the chances of Rebecca being receptive to receiving instruction from her. If this is simply about Randall's well being and not about any real or perceived snub of Yvette and the other mothers by Rebecca, that initial meeting wasn't the time for Yvette to inform Rebecca that she knew exactly who Rebecca was and do it in a tone that to me sounded like a chiding.

I don't think Yvette is obligated to be 100% about Randall and zero percent about herself. If she was judging Rebecca, she was also right; even Rebecca realized that when she stopped being defensive and thought about Randall's well-being instead of her own irrational emotional defenses. I don't have a problem with Yvette's behavior, but even if you consider it wrong, why is she supposed to be perfect if Rebecca isn't? I think Rebecca can handle it, and too much honey causes diabetes.

It seems to me that Rebecca dragging Randall away from the other kids and being so rude to Yvette was a very bad parenting move, and could be very damaging to Randall's psyche if he rarely sees other Black people and she sends him the message that when he does, it upsets her a lot. That he's 8 and the lightbulb is only now going on for her, to me is pretty shocking and her figuring this stuff out is long overdue.

I like Rebecca, but I think the idea that Yvette should be selfless and Rebecca's mistakes are handwavable is unfair.

It's fine with me for Rebecca to be flawed, but I don't think she should get a pass and others owe it to Rebecca to be better than Rebecca is.

Anyway, I'm glad the two women managed to get past their first encounter and become friends. To me, the show doing this without sugar-coating or kid-gloving it is both more interesting and more realistic than if it had been handled in another way. From my perspective, Rebecca got over herself and Yvette appeared to forgive her immediately, which I think are great relationship skills to have and in some ways way more important than being able to get along when everyone is tiptoeing around each other to avoid any whisper of conflict.

[SadieT]

8 hours ago, SueB said:

I think this show could be re-labeled "This Is Therapy" because I can relate to some aspect for each child and see it in their (and my) adulthood.  I don't watch these episodes, I process them.

Same here. I'm nothing like adult Kevin as I'm pretty shy and have no desire to be in the spotlight (sort of like adult Kate), but I so related to little Kevin's dramatic speech to his parents at the pool because coming from a large, loud family where my siblings  demanded more attention than I did growing up, I often felt overlooked and like I got lost in the shuffle as a kid. That "Where's Kevin? He's dead!" line was definitely a sentiment I felt like blurting out a few times as a child, but of course I was always too shy to really bring on the dramatics. 

8 hours ago, Sake614 said:

To the poster asking what 8-year-old wears a bikini, that would be me. And both my nieces and great nieces. And just about every one of my friends when we were that age. I'm not sure I see the problem with it? No one was/is trying to be sexy, and i can't tell you why I wore a bikini instead of a one piece, but I did. Of course it was 1968 when I was 8 years old, so it likely also was the times. But I see lots of young girls (and toddlers) in bikinis today. I guess I just never gave it any thought. It's just a swim suit. 

My nieces wear them, too. In fact they started wearing bikinis as toddlers. I don't see the big deal. It's just a bathing suit and if anyone's sexualizing a little girl in a bikini, well then the problem isn't the little girl in the bikini. 

[GodsBeloved]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't think Yvette is obligated to be 100% about Randall and zero percent about herself. If she was judging Rebecca, she was also right; even Rebecca realized that when she stopped being defensive and thought about Randall's well-being instead of her own irrational emotional defenses. I don't have a problem with Yvette's behavior, but even if you consider it wrong, why is she supposed to be perfect if Rebecca isn't? I think Rebecca can handle it, and too much honey causes diabetes.

I did say that initial meeting wasn't the time for Yvette to let Rebecca know that she should have introduced herself to the black families. Whether she was all about Randall or it was partly about Randall and partly about Rebecca snubbing her and the other mothers, I still think that initial meeting wasn't the time for Yvette to call Rebecca out on her bad behavior.

No I don't think Yvette is suppose to be perfect when Rebecca isn't. Both of them could have done better in this situation.

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

It seems to me that Rebecca dragging Randall away from the other kids and being so rude to Yvette was a very bad parenting move

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my post but I thought Rebecca was dead wrong for snatching Randall up.

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I like Rebecca, but I think the idea that Yvette should be selfless and Rebecca's mistakes are handwavable is unfair.

It's fine with me for Rebecca to be flawed, but I don't think she should get a pass and others owe it to Rebecca to be better than Rebecca is.

To be clear, I am not hand waving any of Rebecca's mistakes and I certainty don't think she should be excused or that others owe it to her to be better. In this instance, if Yvette owed anybody anything, it was Randall. Going back to the comment I initially replied to, if it was Yvette's place/right to make sure Randall was being cared for properly, then she owed it to Randall regardless of how wrong Rebecca is for not introducing herself to the black families to use honey even if it made Rebecca a diabetic. And Rebecca definitely owed it to Randall to be receptive regardless of Yvette's perceived or real attitude and her subsequent defensiveness.

Edited October 22, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[GodsBeloved]

6 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I can't remember who said it, but someone put it in an excellent way: it's more of a miscommunication on both ends that definitely led to Rebecca feeling hostile and attacked, just like Yvette might have felt inferior to someone like Rebecca. I found Yvette's tone very telling that she might have been judging Rebecca. I do think both came across bad in their initial conversation, but the main point is that Rebecca went to ask Yvette for the barber's number. She did make the first step, and that clearly eventually leads to a friendship between the families. They clearly get over their initial meeting, which is good. 

But I've rewatched that scene several times now (the initial meeting) and I honestly felt like Yvette was less than inviting toward Rebecca. It's mostly her line of "When a white family adopts a black child and doesn't introduce themselves to any of us, we tend to take notice" has a personal tone to it. Not Yvette's fault, of course, but she's definitely judging Rebecca before knowing her. 

I think Yvette was misjudging Rebecca, just as Rebecca was doing the same to her. Rebecca tried to be friendly to Yvette; she stuck out her hand for Yvette to shake after she found Randall, but Yvette's tone got Rebecca to act hostile back. If Yvette had been less passive aggressive, I don't think Rebecca would have been quite as harsh. However, the question remains: would Rebecca have gone back to ask for that number? Maybe, maybe not. But Rebecca was also making assumptions about Yvette's intentions. And then she stuck her foot in her mouth unintentionally, so there was definitely just a case of miscommunication in this instance. 

I just found Yvette to be a bit passive aggressive in that initial meeting. She had good intentions, and I totally understand why she might not have wandered over to tell Rebecca/Jack about where Randall was, but she could have steered that conversation in a better direction. However, things definitely worked out in their second meeting. Rewatching that scene as well, Yvette seemed pleasantly surprised that Rebecca came back over to ask for that number. It's as if she was surprised that Rebecca would even consider that. I know that Rebecca needed to make that step, and she even recognized that Randall probably needed to be around more black families, so it's good. 

You said it so much better than I could.

I am LOLing at Yvette being passive aggressive. I thought she was quite direct in expressing her displeasure with Rebecca LOL

[MaryPatShelby]

If we can stand one more post about sunscreen, by my calculations the pool scene took place in about 1988 which, while 30ish years ago, isn't exactly the Dark Ages.  I had a kid in 86, and I'm sure I was slathering sunscreen on her by the time she was 2 and running around outside all summer.  Not sure about the SPF though; I feel like those numbers weren't as high back then.

On 10/19/2016 at 5:34 PM, Enigma X said:

I actually found Kate's face-to-face with the ex out of character for someone intimidated by their boyfriend's ex looks.

I think she acted un-intimidated because Josie was so pleasant and welcoming toward her.  She didn't say, or imply, "You're too fat to work in my store" which gave Kate the confidence to continue with the interview.

On 10/19/2016 at 8:18 PM, OtterMommy said:

I thought it was strange that he couldn't swim but it at least sounded like Randall and Kate could.  I mean, I would think that all the kids would be enrolled in swimming lessons together OR their parents would teach them all at once.  And, yeah, I did want to scream and Rebecca and Jack with kid Kevin looked up and only saw his parents' backs!

My impression was that Kevin never learned to swim because he was afraid to put his face in the water.  I think it was mentioned at breakfast that they'd go to the pool and Kevin could sit on the edge or stay in the shallow section, or something like that.  That's why it was such a big deal when he was dunking his head, and trying to get his parents full attention so he could show them.

[Tiger]

IMHO, while what Yvette said was a problem, the problem was how Yvette said it.   She, at least initially, had a very condescending tone.

I really liked Ryan Michelle Bathe on Boston Legal yeara ago, so if Yvette is going to recur then I hope she can bring some likeability to this role.

[GodsBeloved]

My burning question is do white people not get ashy or is it that the ash just doesn't show up on them?

My niece and nephew swim and when we were at the water park this summer none of us lotioned after getting out of the water and we didn't lotion them after they went swimming at the hotel pool. They are well moisturized children though and lotion face to toe after bathing. I just thought is was so funny when Yvette told Rebecca she needed to lotion Randall after he got out of the pool.

Edited October 22, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[J.D.]

I'm going to guess that Ivette becomes their live in nanny.  I'm going to guess that she doesn't have any children of her own but she always wanted them, and that being a nanny is her career and that's what she was doing at the pool when she met Kate.  Otherwise, it doesn't make sense that Ivette would be in that photograph without her own child(ren) also being in the photo.

[random chance]

2 minutes ago, GodsBeloved said:

My burning question is do white people not get ashy or is it that the ash just doesn't show up on them?

I have never been sure of what "ashy" is, but if it's just the color of ashes, I'm already pasty -- so a pasty color like ash wouldn't stand out much on me.

[DearEvette]

When skin is very dry it tightens and gets a sheen.  On dark skin, that sheen can look grey-ish hence the "ashy" reference.  So yeah, it doesn't show up the same way on lighter skin.  The same dry skin is there just doesn't look the same.

[Neurochick]

16 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

When skin is very dry it tightens and gets a sheen.  On dark skin, that sheen can look grey-ish hence the "ashy" reference.  So yeah, it doesn't show up the same way on lighter skin.  The same dry skin is there just doesn't look the same.

Correct, chlorine tends to dry the skin; on darker skin the dry-ness looks grey, and that grey color looks like ash.  The lighter your skin is, the less the "ash" color shows, though the skin is just as dry.

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, possibilities said:

It seems to me that Rebecca dragging Randall away from the other kids and being so rude to Yvette was a very bad parenting move, and could be very damaging to Randall's psyche if he rarely sees other Black people and she sends him the message that when he does, it upsets her a lot. That he's 8 and the lightbulb is only now going on for her, to me is pretty shocking and her figuring this stuff out is long overdue.

 

Honestly, I wasn't born in the 1970s or 1980s, so I don't know, but I just thought that racism was more heavily defined back then, so Rebecca not having a clue until he was eight made sense. I assume that she didn't know a lot of black people, if any, and she didn't go out of her way to because she thought that it wasn't a big deal. I think that for Rebecca, it was more out of ignorance. But, like Jack said, it's their first time and they're all still learning. 

On another note, when I rewatched the episode, I noticed that during the young Kevin "is dead" scene, the whole family excluding Kevin is having lunch. He has to get out of the pool and go to them to tell them his feelings. It implies that they didn't bother to call him for lunch. It definitely adds to Kevin's feelings about being ignored, that's for sure.

[SunnyBeBe]

I really like the show, but, it seems there are some trends going on.  I read about the matter here after Episode 2, I think.  NOW, I really see it. 

 It almost seems that when the script was written, they intended for the kids be younger children. Like maybe 3 years old, not 8. Recall in the episode when the parents are sitting in the hall talking and mom makes a comment about how they are doing as parents? To me, that sounds like a comment that much newer parent would make...not a mom of 8 year-olds. She also commented about tucking them in at night. Maybe like they were toddlers. I just thought it was odd then, but then last night, they go the same way. If we believe they have been to pool before, which they imply, they would know not to take your eyes off the kids, especially those who can't swim. And, the hair cut thing. Randall's been getting hair cuts all these years and only now does the improper cut become an issue? And the sun screen. He's 8 and they never looked into the sunscreen issue? To me, it seemed it was all about toddlers and not 8 year-old kids. Still, I enjoyed it. I just think the script needs to adjust for the age thing.  

I hope to see Kevin transform as a person. He can be so annoying.  

I'd like to see Kate doing something other than being so insecure.

I love Randall and think that he and his family's storyline is really the heart of the show. 

[Clanstarling]

It was a little hard for me to judge Yvette, when at that moment I was judging Rebecca too. We mothers can be a judgy lot. It was true back in the 80's when I had my kids, and I hear it's only gotten worse.

But actually, it was Rebecca dragging Randall away from where he was happily playing that made me judge her the most.

As to what gives Yvette the right, I think generally speaking, it's true that we don't have the right to judge someone else's parenting (though boy howdy, do we do a lot of that here). I think, however, in this case it's a little more complex than that. I think seeing a child you might consider one of your own, being raised in a lily white family, and that family seems to make no effort to understand and provide for the child's different needs (culturally, physically), you might feel a little ownership and the right to comment on it. Not saying it's necessarily right, but natural.

Slightly off topic (but I'm including it because of Randall's need for a barber who knew how to cut his hair). Back in the 90's I had a friend, who'd adopted a black girl. She told me that the hair products she needed to properly care for her daughter's hair were kept in locked cabinets in the stores. I found it hard to believe, and was horrified when I went to the store and confirmed that they were under lock and key. This is no news, I'm sure, to the black women on the forum, but it was an eye-opening experience to this lily white woman.

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Recall in the episode when the parents are sitting in the hall talking and mom makes a comment about how they are doing as parents? To me, that sounds like a comment that much newer parent would make...not a mom of 8 year-olds.

I don't know - I still worry about how we were/are as parents, even though our kids are fully grown adults.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Clanstarling

[DearEvette]

35 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

It was a little hard for me to judge Yvette, when at that moment I was judging Rebecca too. We mothers can be a judgy lot. It was true back in the 80's when I had my kids, and I hear it's only gotten worse.

But actually, it was Rebecca dragging Randall away from where he was happily playing that made me judge her the most

I still give Rebecca a bit more a pass though.  When the interaction began it didn't look like she was planning to remove Randall at all.  He was calmly playing with the other kids.  It was all pretty cordial really.  She was relieved he was there and Yvette was all "don't worry we are watching him" and then Rebecca went to introduce herself.  That is when it went pear shaped.  When Yvette said "Oh we know who you are...."  I think the tone as well as the injection of race ("when a white family has a black child..") made Rebecca feel defensive.

I know that any sort of questioning of parenting skills gets people super defensive.  I had my 8 month old in a stroller once, on a super hot day in August and he wasn't wearing shoes.  I mean, he was 8 months and not walking why would he need shoes?  But a woman said to me "You need to put some shoes on that baby. He needs shoes!" Just out nowhere.  It was a fairly innocuous comment all said and done, but my back went up immediately  I was like "Aw Bitch , naw!"  LOL.

So I can see Rebecca, who probably deep inside already feels somehow inadequate to the task of raising a black son, and who is now seemingly being challenged on her decisions get defensive and embarrassed.   I would like to think if Yvette hadn't moved the interaction into quite that territory that Rebecca might not have pulled Randall away.

[Artsda]

Quote

I'm astounded that so many people are so upset and angry about how Yvette spoke to Rebecca. All she said is that she knew who Rebecca was, that they all notice.

That's not what she said though, she brought in race into it, judging Rebecca for not introducing herself, giving her unsolicited advice. Plus her tone and her attitude, Yvette was giving her attitude from the start that Rebecca grabbing her child to get away from that situation and type of person made sense. 

Rebecca going back shows she was 100% the better person. Not many people would give Yvette the time of day after that.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Artsda said:

Rebecca going back shows she was 100% the better person. Not many people would give Yvette the time of day after that.

I personally wouldn't say anyone was 100% the better or worse person based on the one interaction, and you probably didn't mean that.  But on percentages, Rebecca got the benefit of some important information that she and Jack (presumably he went to the barber, too) never noticed or got clued into for 8 years.  And it looks like she got a new friend and so did Randall, so I would give points all around.  It is pretty illustrative though of how we tend to judge, it's part of the human condition I guess, hence the biblical admonition against it.  It's generally rude to offer unsolicited advice or commentary to strangers, we all know how it makes us feel, so I think this fictional interaction gets our hackles up on that basis alone, leaving aside the racial component, which of course complicates it.  (I will now stop beating that poor horse.)

[ChromaKelly]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I really like the show, but, it seems there are some trends going on.  I read about the matter here after Episode 2, I think.  NOW, I really see it. 

 It almost seems that when the script was written, they intended for the kids be younger children. Like maybe 3 years old, not 8. Recall in the episode when the parents are sitting in the hall talking and mom makes a comment about how they are doing as parents? To me, that sounds like a comment that much newer parent would make...not a mom of 8 year-olds. She also commented about tucking them in at night. Maybe like they were toddlers. I just thought it was odd then, but then last night, they go the same way. If we believe they have been to pool before, which they imply, they would know not to take your eyes off the kids, especially those who can't swim. And, the hair cut thing. Randall's been getting hair cuts all these years and only now does the improper cut become an issue? And the sun screen. He's 8 and they never looked into the sunscreen issue? To me, it seemed it was all about toddlers and not 8 year-old kids. Still, I enjoyed it. I just think the script needs to adjust for the age thing.  

I hope to see Kevin transform as a person. He can be so annoying.  

I'd like to see Kate doing something other than being so insecure.

I love Randall and think that he and his family's storyline is really the heart of the show. 

I had similar thoughts. Or maybe it was written by people who don't have kids/don't have multiple kids? Not that I'm all Awesome Mom, but I have twins and a child three years younger, and I take them to the pool by myself all the time. I realize it's different having three the same age, but 8 years old is a pretty self-sufficient age. It's not like taking three toddlers to the pool. The way they were all "Go to the pool?" when they were discussing going was kind of off to me.

[La Traviata]

I can't believe people would think its ok for Randal to wander away from his parents just because some stranger Rebecca doesn't know say its ok since SHE was watching him.  There are crazy people in the world.  Child molesters.  Kidnappers.  Anything could have happened and Rebecca had every right to pull Randall away from what he was doing. Imagine for a minute race were not an issue.  Randal's white.  Yvette is white and everyone at the pool is white.  Would people be so ok with Randal wandering off like he did?  

I also can't believe people are ok with Yvette chastising Rebecca for not introducing herself.   If Yvette felt that strongly about it, then why didn't SHE introduce herself?  She could have just as easily walked over to Rebecca and said something like "your son is over here playing with my kids and I just want you to know I'm happy to keep an eye on him so you dont need to worry, and by the way you're family is more than welcome to come and sit with us." That would have been a better way to go than to judge her from afar.

[MaryPatShelby]

Did anyone notice that the playwright at Kevin's audition was Lily, from the AT&T commercials?  (Yes, I know she has a real name but I'm not in the googling mood right now!)

Edited October 23, 2016 by MaryPatShelby

[CarolMK]

Did Yvette know both Rebecca and Jack ahead of time? I'm just wondering because she said in her statement that she knew Randall was adopted. Didn't anyone in her group of friends think that maybe Randall was her biological son?

[chocolatine]

It was a throw-away line, but I loved how happy Randall looked when telling William that the girls' school had its own small farm, complete with chickens and a goat. Randall's always so serious, it was nice to see him show some child-like excitement.

ETA: 8-year-old Randall's quick work with the Rubik's cube is supposed to be foreshadowing that he'll turn out to be a math/financial genius, yes?

Edited October 23, 2016 by chocolatine

[Happytobehere]

On 10/20/2016 at 9:42 AM, topanga said:

All of the child actors are very talented. My only lament is that young Randall looks nothing like SKB. I suppose TPTB had to hire the best kids for the job, but little Kate still looks like Kate, and young Kevin still looks like Kevin. The child playing Randall has different hair, a different nose, and a different skin tone. It's not enough to take me out of the story, but I shake my head every once in while. I just hope the showrunners realize the two actors look nothing alike and picked the young boy because he was the best actor for the part. I hope I never hear that people "didn't notice" that young Randall and SKB look nothing alike. 

Thank you for posting this.  I've been meaning to say this for a couple of episodes now, but I get caught up in what happened storywise and forget.  I love this show so much, but I am always irked by the fact that the show clearly cast a young actor who would not morph into the adult we see.  With this show, I am torn as to the meaning of it, far too often, such casting reflects white showrunners and behind the scenes people who acknowledge that they really didn't think of it the same way they would know not to cast a blue-eyed, black-haired child to play a green-eyed red-haired adult.  SInce I love both the young and adult Randall and the show is doing such a bang-up job otherwise, I am hoping that as you said, they hired the best actors and hoped people could look past it, or perhaps, young Sterling was cast befor adult Sterling and the show liked the young actor so much, they simply decided to keep him.

[PRgal]

On 2016-10-20 at 8:00 AM, Neurochick said:

What I noticed was that even though the pool was integrated, the black people were in one section, while the whites were in another; Jack and Rebecca were probably clueless of that fact (as I was until I saw that there were other black people near Yvette and her son.  Randall had probably seen the other black kids there before and wanted to play with them.  Both women were right and wrong at the same time.

 

Sort of like how kids "separate" themselves in the lunchroom.  It isn't intentional, but something that "just happens."

Edited October 23, 2016 by PRgal

[theatremouse]

On 10/18/2016 at 8:37 PM, memememe76 said:

That photo with the mother Rebecca befriended was kinda weird, as her child is missing in that photo. If I were Randall, it would be weird to hang a photo of your friend's mom and not the friend. 

I'm for now assuming it just means Yvette and Rebecca became very close, even if Randall and Yvette's kid(s?) weren't besties.

On 10/18/2016 at 11:46 PM, biakbiak said:

This family loves a surprise pop-in.

Especially from across state lines. Geeze. They make the point of putting everyone living far apart yet this still show up like they just happened to be in the neighborhood. It's getting tired, fast, for me.

I would not remotely mind if this turned into the Randall-and-Beth's-family show and the twins and the twins became tertiary characters. I'm fine with them in small doses and the context they bring to Randall but he's about 10x more interesting than any of their shenanigans.

[WhosThatGirl]

I wondered  for a minute if the twist in this episode was going to have Yevette be Beth's mom. 

Edited October 23, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, theatremouse said:

Especially from across state lines. Geeze. They make the point of putting everyone living far apart yet this still show up like they just happened to be in the neighborhood. It's getting tired, fast, for me.

 

Well, this may not exactly be true. It's only happened twice; the first was with Rebecca and Miguel, yes, but they didn't officially confirm if Rebecca still lives in Pittsburgh or not. For now, I'm going to assume that even if she did, maybe they stayed in a hotel overnight and then stopped by Randall's before doing whatever they were doing in New York City. It's not like they just stopped by for Randall; Rebecca made the point in saying that they were going into the city and they only stopped by for an hour or two. 

And as for Kevin, we know that he just moved to New York and has presumably been staying in a hotel until he finds his own apartment. Seeing as New York can be expensive, though, he probably made the choice to try and stay with Randall for a few days/weeks while finding an apartment on his own. So his drop by was more of a "hi, can I stay here for a few days" type thing. So, for now, it does make sense. 

[chocolatine]

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And as for Kevin, we know that he just moved to New York and has presumably been staying in a hotel until he finds his own apartment. Seeing as New York can be expensive, though, he probably made the choice to try and stay with Randall for a few days/weeks while finding an apartment on his own. So his drop by was more of a "hi, can I stay here for a few days" type thing. So, for now, it does make sense. 

I'm very close to my family, immediate as well as extended, but I would never presume to show up unannounced at one of their houses and expect to stay overnight. Especially with my relatives who work and have young children, they have so much on their plates that a "surprise" overnight guest would be a huge imposition. Is that kind of thing acceptable in other families?

And Rebecca should have called when she and Miguel got the Hamilton tickets, or at the very least from the car on their way over.

[kili]

Quote

Is that kind of thing acceptable in other families?

Apparently it is. I once had the in-laws show up with a moving truck to move my SIL into my house. When I blurted out in shock that my husband (who was away) hadn't said anything about this, my FIL tersely told me that families don't have to ask. "Families should always be ready to take in another family member". She stayed for 2 years.

Kevin has already demonstrated that he "just drops in" with Kate. Toby would get quite annoyed at Kevin suddenly bouncing into the room (interrupting both nightcaps and breakfast).  Randall himself brought home an unannounced house guest that has not left in three weeks.

 I wish Beth luck.

[ClareWalks]

33 minutes ago, kili said:

Apparently it is. I once had the in-laws show up with a moving truck to move my SIL into my house. When I blurted out in shock that my husband (who was away) hadn't said anything about this, my FIL tersely told me that families don't have to ask. "Families should always be ready to take in another family member". She stayed for 2 years.

What. The. FUCK. 

[theatremouse]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, this may not exactly be true. It's only happened twice; the first was with Rebecca and Miguel, yes, but they didn't officially confirm if Rebecca still lives in Pittsburgh or not. For now, I'm going to assume that even if she did, maybe they stayed in a hotel overnight and then stopped by Randall's before doing whatever they were doing in New York City. It's not like they just stopped by for Randall; Rebecca made the point in saying that they were going into the city and they only stopped by for an hour or two. 

And as for Kevin, we know that he just moved to New York and has presumably been staying in a hotel until he finds his own apartment. Seeing as New York can be expensive, though, he probably made the choice to try and stay with Randall for a few days/weeks while finding an apartment on his own. So his drop by was more of a "hi, can I stay here for a few days" type thing. So, for now, it does make sense. 

It's happened twice in four episodes, so for me, that's currently "a lot". It also doesn't make sense they didn't even call or text in the car on the way over. Even if they're not still in Pittsburgh, Randall seemed surprised enough I do not think they also live in NJ. They had a reason to be passing through (Hamilton). They did not have a good reason to not have mentioned they might stop by when doing so.

As for Kevin, we saw him in a hotel in NY already. So he clearly intended to stay in one. It seemed like only after he couldn't reach Kate he decided he wanted some time with his brother, and therefore showed up unannounced, intending to stay overnight. 

[PRgal]

On 2016-10-22 at 10:03 AM, DearEvette said:

When skin is very dry it tightens and gets a sheen.  On dark skin, that sheen can look grey-ish hence the "ashy" reference.  So yeah, it doesn't show up the same way on lighter skin.  The same dry skin is there just doesn't look the same.

Like flaky, dry skin? 

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, kili said:

Apparently it is. I once had the in-laws show up with a moving truck to move my SIL into my house. When I blurted out in shock that my husband (who was away) hadn't said anything about this, my FIL tersely told me that families don't have to ask. "Families should always be ready to take in another family member". She stayed for 2 years.

Kevin has already demonstrated that he "just drops in" with Kate. Toby would get quite annoyed at Kevin suddenly bouncing into the room (interrupting both nightcaps and breakfast).  Randall himself brought home an unannounced house guest that has not left in three weeks.

 I wish Beth luck.

I think we have the same in-laws.

In my family, you DO NOT drop by unexpectedly.  That is a major no-no that my mother burned into us.  My in-laws, however, think (well, thought...it took almost a decade to get this through their head) that they always had an open invitation to come by any time. And, yes, they live across state lines (about 4 hours away).  I told my husband I wanted a "Mi casa no es su casa" sign for our house.

But, back to the show--strangely, I was more weirded about about Rebecca and Miguel stopping by than by Kevin.  I don't know if I just chalked it up to Kevin not knowing any better or that it was just his more than slightly self-centered personality.  But with Rebecca and Miguel, it seemed staged and unrealistic.

[SueB]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, this may not exactly be true. It's only happened twice; the first was with Rebecca and Miguel, yes, but they didn't officially confirm if Rebecca still lives in Pittsburgh or not. For now, I'm going to assume that even if she did, maybe they stayed in a hotel overnight and then stopped by Randall's before doing whatever they were doing in New York City. It's not like they just stopped by for Randall; Rebecca made the point in saying that they were going into the city and they only stopped by for an hour or two. 

And as for Kevin, we know that he just moved to New York and has presumably been staying in a hotel until he finds his own apartment. Seeing as New York can be expensive, though, he probably made the choice to try and stay with Randall for a few days/weeks while finding an apartment on his own. So his drop by was more of a "hi, can I stay here for a few days" type thing. So, for now, it does make sense. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, I'm SueB and I can get a wee bit obsessed.  Please don't judge.

So, I did a little research (I love to Google-fu, it's my thing) and here's what I think is possible regarding how they can all be near New York at Randall's house and it make sense.

First, Randall works at some sort of financial firm. 

Second, I think he may work in Jersey City. Look at the definitely NOT Manhattan NYC:

Then consider that New Jersey, according to a few financial websites, offers tax incentives and several big finance firms have moved there (example JP Morgan in 2015)  

http://www.nj.gov/njbusiness/industry/financial/

http://careers.jpmorgan.com/careers/locations/jersey-city

But Randall & Beth live in a lovely suburb. http://www.onlyinyourstate.com/new-jersey/richest-cities-nj/

 Well take a look at Far Hills

Just a relatively short commute from work (45 min to 1 hr during Monday Morning Rush hour... when I calculated the route).

But it's over 2 hrs by car at that time to Philadelphia.  Which "3 hrs by bus" fits nicely.

IF Rebecca and Miguel live in Philadelphia (or any city in easter PA) they could have easily made a stop on the way to the theater district;                                                                      they could leave in the morning, get to the house by mid after noon, and leave at 4 in time for dinner at 6 and a show at 8. 

And Kevin can make it out to Far Hills from the Theater District at 9pm at night and get there in just over an hour.

Fits.

Edited October 24, 2016 by SueB
put back in the links and pics ... I exceeded the limits.

[kat165]

Hi, Sue, welcome. Thanks for the info.

[SueB]

21 minutes ago, kat165 said:

Hi, Sue, welcome. Thanks for the info.

Thanks!  My over-the-top pictures and graphs were missing.  NOW it's the info I wanted to share.

 

Bonus:

Apparently Kevin sent Randall a birthday message and it was on his screen that we saw.  We just didn't know it was LA Kevin ...

See message above "GOOD NEWS" that says "It's Our Birthday Bro"

Edited October 24, 2016 by SueB

[theatremouse]

That email was discussed in the thread for that episode.

[SueB]

1 minute ago, theatremouse said:

That email was discussed in the thread for that episode.

Sorry, missed that.