S01.E03: Kyle

[ThoughtAFool]

As far as I'm concerned the jury's still out on Toby.  The big gestures that are supposed to be so flattering to the woman but border on stalker-y/controlling might sit better with me if not for the so-called Nice Guy "if a guy's so persistent, the woman will reward him with sex" trope.  Here's hoping the characterization rises above that.

[Amethyst]

5 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

I totally agree. I think she is so insecure about her weight she never really would try or do anything foe herself without a push. I think that is one off the reasons she focuses so much on her brother. Not just because its her job or because she loves him. Mostly because that way she does not have to face her fears and uses it as an excuse to not have a life of her own.

I just remembered a line from the pilot.  One of the first things Kate said to Kevin was "Tell me to lose the damn weight already."  I think that says something about Kate and how she gets motivated.  If she's that insecure, then she might need a cheerleader to get her started, even if she knows what she wants and what she needs to do.  

[MaryPatShelby]

On 10/13/2016 at 0:57 AM, twoods said:

He seems to care about Kate, and of course he wants to have sex with her since they've been dating for a while. .

I know others have mentioned this but I feel compelled to say it again anyway....he has known her a week. I know "times are different now", and granted it's been a really long time since I dated, but don't people want to get to know someone even a little bit before hopping in the sack?  And he has talked about it with her since day one - come to think of it, in that week is there any day he's not been with her?  He had no right to invite himself to the Hollywood party or to give her her own day (how would he even know what she'd like?), and absolutely no right to expect to be placed first ahead of her twin brother....especially when he expected that in a broom closet in a nursing home.

5 hours ago, Texasmom1970 said:

This show reminded me how much I love Gerald McRaney. Have loved him since "Designing Women."

I hate Gerald McRaney with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns; managed it when he was Dr. Folksy the OB but not so much as the Folksy Pediatrician.  I really hope he doesn't keep popping up with his homespun words of wisdom.  

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

I know "times are different now", and granted it's been a really long time since I dated, but don't people want to get to know someone even a little bit before hopping in the sack?

I dunno if times have changed - my "times" were a long time ago - and as I recall, there was a whole lot of hopping in the sack well before Toby and Kate's timeline.

[RedheadZombie]

For some reason, I just knew that Rebecca and Miguel would end up together.  Wonder if there's a little hostility from Kate/Kevin, or strictly from Randall.

The guy playing Kevin is doing a great job.  To play someone who's so shallow, dumb, and selfish, yet somehow rootable.  I love how accepting he's been of Toby all along.  I hope Kate finds her way to the East coast.  I want to see the Big Three together.

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 10:32 PM, BoogieBurns said:

Man, William broke my heart over and over this episode. I am just too sensitive. He wanted to know that baby, and he was so sad that Randall's mom died. Took him 36 years to get to know him. *crying*

My thought within the first minute of this episode - William is going to break my heart.  I am so sold on Randall and William.  I actually cried this episode.  More than once.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, ThoughtAFool said:

As far as I'm concerned the jury's still out on Toby.  The big gestures that are supposed to be so flattering to the woman but border on stalker-y/controlling might sit better with me if not for the so-called Nice Guy "if a guy's so persistent, the woman will reward him with sex" trope.  Here's hoping the characterization rises above that.

There was also some offensive subtext in his insinuation that since he's interested in Kate (at her size), she ought to drop her other priorities and nab him, or at least hop into the sack because she's lucky to have the offer.  

16 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

For some reason, I just knew that Rebecca and Miguel would end up together.  .

They kind of telegraphed it with Miguel's talking about how lucky Jack was to have her.  In these ensemble shows, it seems like there are no throwaway lines.  

[ShadowFacts]

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

For some reason, I just knew that Rebecca and Miguel would end up together.  Wonder if there's a little hostility from Kate/Kevin, or strictly from Randall.

The guy playing Kevin is doing a great job.  To play someone who's so shallow, dumb, and selfish, yet somehow rootable.  I love how accepting he's been of Toby all along.  I hope Kate finds her way to the East coast.  I want to see the Big Three together.

My thought within the first minute of this episode - William is going to break my heart.  I am so sold on Randall and William.  I actually cried this episode.  More than once.

Yes, he's breaking my heart already and I've liked him from the beginning -- I did not think he was a scammer, and I think his is some top-notch acting.

Kevin, not so lovable, I'm not on board his train yet.  He is very delusional to think he is going to be able to dictate the terms of his entry into Broadway -- no silly comedies, only serious drama, or however he put it.  He imploded publicly on a stupid sitcom, now he thinks he is going to straight to stage drama.  Right.  I am not yet rooting for him.  I almost think Kate has to move east, the entirety of her family is there, she is jobless, and needs lots of emotional support.  Wouldn't it be great (and twisty) if Kevin stumbled and Kate somehow took the spotlight with her singing, or trying stand-up comedy, or something.  Trope-y, yes, but then Kate's story wouldn't be her weight struggles and her supporting role in Kevin's life. 

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, he's breaking my heart already and I've liked him from the beginning -- I did not think he was a scammer, and I think his is some top-notch acting.

Kevin, not so lovable, I'm not on board his train yet.  He is very delusional to think he is going to be able to dictate the terms of his entry into Broadway -- no silly comedies, only serious drama, or however he put it.  He imploded publicly on a stupid sitcom, now he thinks he is going to straight to stage drama.  Right.  I am not yet rooting for him.  I almost think Kate has to move east, the entirety of her family is there, she is jobless, and needs lots of emotional support.  Wouldn't it be great (and twisty) if Kevin stumbled and Kate somehow took the spotlight with her singing, or trying stand-up comedy, or something.  Trope-y, yes, but then Kate's story wouldn't be her weight struggles and her supporting role in Kevin's life. 

People might actually WANT to see Kevin because his show could be billed as "that sitcom guy with the viral video."  Or maybe not.  In any case, he'll probably end up in some sort of Full Monty type production (even if he doesn't want to be in one) as the "one guy withOUT the Dad Bod." 

[Guest]

Are they portraying Kate as Kevin's personal assistant AND agent?  She sent him scripts?  And now he's off to NYC to find work with no agent?  

[KaveDweller]

15 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

I know others have mentioned this but I feel compelled to say it again anyway....he has known her a week. I know "times are different now", and granted it's been a really long time since I dated, but don't people want to get to know someone even a little bit before hopping in the sack?  And he has talked about it with her since day one - come to think of it, in that week is there any day he's not been with her?  He had no right to invite himself to the Hollywood party or to give her her own day (how would he even know what she'd like?), and absolutely no right to expect to be placed first ahead of her twin brother....especially when he expected that in a broom closet in a nursing home.

I hate Gerald McRaney with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns; managed it when he was Dr. Folksy the OB but not so much as the Folksy Pediatrician.  I really hope he doesn't keep popping up with his homespun words of wisdom.  

I know Randall referred to William staying at his house for a week, but in the second episode Toby counted out that he and Kate have had a certain number of lunches and dinners. I can't remember the numbers he said, but it made it seem like it was a lot longer than a week.

[ribboninthesky1]

11 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

There was also some offensive subtext in his insinuation that since he's interested in Kate (at her size), she ought to drop her other priorities and nab him, or at least hop into the sack because she's lucky to have the offer.  

You think so? I agree on the offensive subtext, but I perceived it was more a sense of entitlement that, since he doesn't "perform grand gestures for every girl he goes on a few dates with," she should see him as priority one.  It didn't occur to me that it was about her weight.  Sadly, it's common for a certain kind of man to feel as if he's owed something because he did something "romantic." Akin to what ThoughtAFool wrote. 

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

People might actually WANT to see Kevin because his show could be billed as "that sitcom guy with the viral video."  Or maybe not.  In any case, he'll probably end up in some sort of Full Monty type production (even if he doesn't want to be in one) as the "one guy withOUT the Dad Bod." 

Ha!

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Are they portraying Kate as Kevin's personal assistant AND agent?  She sent him scripts?  And now he's off to NYC to find work with no agent?  

I feel like they're playing fast and loose with key details because they're trying to hit certain emotional beats.  For me, it makes those beats feel shallow. The actors are elevating the material, but I'm curious...how long will that sustain viewers?

Edited October 15, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[MaryPatShelby]

Just read an article in Entertainment Weekly which said that it took 5 "tests" for the makeup team to formulate Mandy Moore's aging makeover, and she worked with a physicality coach as well.  

I think many of us are assuming that Kate and Toby have known each other a week because, in episode 1, Kate met Toby and Randall met William, inviting him to stay at the house that very night.  In this episode we learn that William has been living with Randall's family for a week.

Edited October 15, 2016 by MaryPatShelby

[auntiemel]

Maybe it was the Hamilton reference, but during the scene toward the end when Kevin's plane was landing, I started singing, "In New York you can be a new man, in New York you can be a new man...." quite loudly and my family looked at me like I was cray.

#onlytheaternerdinmyfamily

[theatremouse]

8 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Are they portraying Kate as Kevin's personal assistant AND agent?  She sent him scripts?  And now he's off to NYC to find work with no agent?  

Katey Segal was his agent, at least for TV and film. Not all agencies represent for all types of stuff so he might not have one to get him theater things, and it's not clear if after his tirade at the party she basically dropped him.

[TOWTooMuchTV]

4 hours ago, auntiemel said:

Maybe it was the Hamilton reference, but during the scene toward the end when Kevin's plane was landing, I started singing, "In New York you can be a new man, in New York you can be a new man...." quite loudly and my family looked at me like I was cray.

#onlytheaternerdinmyfamily

My daughter and I - both theater nerds - loved the Hamilton reference and wonder/hoped it was purposeful being that Ron Cephas Jones (William) is the father of Peggy Schuyler....

[J-Man]

I certainly hope that the fact that Randall has turned out to be both successful and extremely hot doesn't result in an uptick of pregnant women on crack.

I've watched all three of the "aftershows," and Mandy Moore hasn't participated in any of them. And Sterling Brown only seems to be there when they are discussing his character. The only people who are always there are Chrissy Metz, Justin Hartley, and Milo Ventimiglia. The creator, Dan Fogleman, was there for two of the three. Any thoughts as to why this might be?

[possibilities]

What happened to William's cat? I wish the daughter didn't have asthma so the cat could live with the family. They made such a big point of the cat, to just drop it stresses me out.

I think Kate and Toby were in that support group together for a while, and often in those kinds of groups, people do develop a sense of knowing each other very well and sharing a kind of trust and intimacy that you would not have with someone you just met and only dated for a short time. The dating itself is more recent, but they both seem to be feeling a lot of intensity.

I don't know where the show is going with Toby, or their relationship, or Kate's finding herself outside of hiding behind her twin status and weight obsession, but I find Kate's whiny bullshit about how she needs to focus on losing weight (and not love or singing or anything else) and can't have a life til she gets thin, to be so draining (I'm fat and I have a life-- stop making excuses, Kate!), that I'm relieved when anything changes her focus and gets her out of her depression and excuse-making. So for me, Toby has been a plus.

I think what he said to her when he arrived with the red carpet was "just give me one day"-- so he admitted it was partly about himself. But that's ok. Relationships are about both people. He wanted to have fun with her, and show her what it would be like to be proud of yourself, to be visible, to be celebrated, and that he felt that way about her. It is definitely not the kind of thing I would want, but I hate surprise parties of any kind, and am not moping around thinking I should be invisible, either. And he didn't force her to do anything. He strongly asked her to, but at no time did she seem intimidated or shamed or anything like that.

It may be that this relationship won't last. But I get that with someone like Kate, who is so convinced she's unwantable, that being persistently and grandly shown how wanted she is, might actually be the only way to get through to her.

If he doesn't take no, or if he gets controlling, that's bad. But so far he hasn't crossed that line as far as I'm concerned. I see why people worry about it, and I'm not predicting where it will end up. But Kate was the one who initiated the sex in the closet, and she told Kevin that before his call she had been feeling so free.... it's not like Toby dragged her in there-- in fact, he was surprised by her ardor. And Kevin firing her made Kevin look better, so it's not like Toby is the only person who thinks they are codependent.

What will she do for money, though? I hope Kevin gave her a massive severance check.

It helped me to realize Rebecca was afraid that she would lose Kyle, and that she was able to bond as soon as William promised her not to come back and try to take him from her. I may be someone who bonds too easily, but I just couldn't relate to her inability to bond with someone she didn't grow inside herself. And I get that she was grieving, too. But I just wasn't making the connection that she was afraid of LOSING Kyle, and that was the problem.

It broke me though, when she didn't even offer to give William periodic updates on how the kid was doing. And that she kept the secret from Randall for so long-- yikes.

I don't think keeping the secret was right, but people were asking how she would justify the poetry book, and I don't think it would be so hard to come up with a cover story that explained to Randall (or Jack) about his new name. She could have told Jack she was out walking during her 4 hour disappearance, went into a used bookstore, found the book, fell in love with it, and wanted to name the kid after the poet.

Randall, Beth, and their daughters are the best, though. I agree that a show just about them would be awesome. The one daughter saying her dad was hiding something-- how do they make these kids so amazingly awesome and not trigger my "too tv precious" gag reflex? It's a real accomplishment.

Also loved "Hi white people" and "I would never abandon the kids without you."

Maybe William's cat can be adopted by Kevin, but I don't think Kevin is responsible enough. I'm really hung up on this cat.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I do agree that a mother of nursing triplets! would not be able to disappear for four hours without expressing milk, pumping or exploding. If Jack said she was missing 4 hours, that should be 4 hours since he returned from his hospital visit which included a nap, so maybe 6 hours all told, since he doesn't know when she left.

Since there's no way those babies went even 4 hours without eating and they were supposedly not using formula, I will assume that Rebecca pumped earlier and left bottles for Jack. I will also assume that Jack took a carriage in his car and was able to put all 3 babies side by side to transport between car and hospital by himself.

Finally, as to whether Rebecca ever told Jack about William, I think not. After they first came home from the hospital and were sitting together against the dresser shell shocked, Rebecca started to tell Jack that she had seen William when they were leaving the hospital, but he interrupted her because he assumed that she was talking about having second thoughts about Kyle.

Edited October 16, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Everyone who pointed out that the three "K" names must have been chosen after Rebecca and Jack knew that the third baby had died should be correct since they only met Dr. K as the babies were starting to come. Therefore, Kyle should have been associated only with the adopted baby. Unless Rebecca had come up with the 3 names on her own after the delivery, but before Jack came back and she found out that one of the babies had died.

Jack was doing much better than Rebecca because he was so insistent on replacing the lost baby that it actually seemed as if it didn't matter to him who the babies were, as long as they came home with three. Rebecca realized that you can't just replace one child with another, even if you have never met the lost one, and was still in mourning for the family she had imagined.

[J.D.]

5 hours ago, J-Man said:

I've watched all three of the "aftershows," and Mandy Moore hasn't participated in any of them. And Sterling Brown only seems to be there when they are discussing his character. The only people who are always there are Chrissy Metz, Justin Hartley, and Milo Ventimiglia. The creator, Dan Fogleman, was there for two of the three. Any thoughts as to why this might be?

Mandy's a much bigger star than the others and Sterling's probably the second biggest of that group, then Milo...etc.

Chrissy and Justin are still fighting to make themselves a household name.  With notoriety comes privilege.  The lesser notable of the cast are expected to make the most public appearances to promote the show.  

[SlackerInc]

On 10/14/2016 at 3:49 PM, Clanstarling said:

My take on Toby, a somewhat generous one, is that some people who are overweight shrink into themselves protectively (as I do) and some overcompensate and take control of the conversation, as it were. They create a big personality as their protection against the world. His comments about sex, to me, are not so much that it is his singular goal, but that it makes him feel less vulnerable, because he does seem to truly like, and be attracted to, Kate. I can't say at this moment that I totally like him - but that I'm willing to like him, depending on how it plays out.

Yes, and I think he's written to throw out those lines about sex to give him an "edge", so he's not just some impossibly gallant Prince Charming.

On 10/14/2016 at 5:26 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

I also take issue with the trend to hire morbidly obese actors or twigs but very, very few people of the size the vast majority of us women are, like sizes 10-14.  

That they don't feature those sizes is completely absurd, since most female characters on TV are straight, and that's the range straight men find most attractive (12, specifically, is the sweet spot).  But they should also have some female actors on TV who are a little above that, sizes that straight men might see as non-ideal, but still short of being, as you say, morbidly obese.

13 hours ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Just read an article in Entertainment Weekly which said that it took 5 "tests" for the makeup team to formulate Mandy Moore's aging makeover, and she worked with a physicality coach as well.  

Interesting about the physicality coach, because I noticed her doing something when she walked, or stood up maybe, that was noticeably stiff or creaky.

[DrSpaceman73]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 8:49 PM, MaryPatShelby said:

I know others have mentioned this but I feel compelled to say it again anyway....he has known her a week. I know "times are different now", and granted it's been a really long time since I dated, but don't people want to get to know someone even a little bit before hopping in the sack?  And he has talked about it with her since day one - come to think of it, in that week is there any day he's not been with her?  He had no right to invite himself to the Hollywood party or to give her her own day (how would he even know what she'd like?), and absolutely no right to expect to be placed first ahead of her twin brother....especially when he expected that in a broom closet in a nursing home.

I hate Gerald McRaney with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns; managed it when he was Dr. Folksy the OB but not so much as the Folksy Pediatrician.  I really hope he doesn't keep popping up with his homespun words of wisdom.  

I don't hate Gerald McRaney, but I do hate him here for much what you describe.  Plus he just keeps spitting out clichés, not even giving real advice. 

And he is clearly on obstetrician, why do they have a follow up apt with him instead of the pediatrician. 

Tobey is a bit over the top, especially since they just met, but without that Kate likely wouldn't have ended up where she was at the end of this episode. 

Overall a much better show so far than I expected. 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

Mandy's a much bigger star than the others and Sterling's probably the second biggest of that group, then Milo...etc.

Chrissy and Justin are still fighting to make themselves a household name.  With notoriety comes privilege.  The lesser notable of the cast are expected to make the most public appearances to promote the show.  

it could just be a simple case of availability. I noticed that Sterling, in the most recent one, was only there when talking about his character. He probably had to go back to set, or something like that. These could also have been taped when Mandy was in NY doing promotion for the show, as the episodes we've seen now (2 &3) were filmed weeks, or months ago. 

 

Quote

And he is clearly on obstetrician, why do they have a follow up apt with him instead of the pediatrician. 

Granted he seemed like that is all he was, an OB/GYN, but maybe he was a family physician or was asked by Jack and Rebecca to examine the babies.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I will also assume that Jack took a carriage in his car and was able to put all 3 babies side by side to transport between car and hospital by himself.

I just assumed he had three car seats. They were available, and started becoming mandatory in some states right around the time period the triplets were born. Of course, I didn't notice if their car had seat belts, which would pose a problem.

[Tiger]

43 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

it could just be a simple case of availability. I noticed that Sterling, in the most recent one, was only there when talking about his character. He probably had to go back to set, or something like that. These could also have been taped when Mandy was in NY doing promotion for the show, as the episodes we've seen now (2 &3) were filmed weeks, or months ago. 

I dont know which entity is producing this show, nor how production companies handle it generally, but I do know that for shows produced by ABC Studios who does press is a combination of contractual terms, availability, and what the network is allocating to that shows' promotional budget. 

[mansonlamps]

On 10/12/2016 at 10:39 AM, Lady Calypso said:

 

That's why William suggested that she gave him a different name, one that was his own. It probably did end up making him feel like an outsider, but in another sense, giving him an R name allowed him to possibly be closer to his mother.

William didn't suggest giving him a different name, I thought Dr. Folksy Charm did.

On 10/12/2016 at 11:25 AM, Gardencrown said:

I think this is a very good point. Based on my own anecdotal knowledge (which is obviously perfect and complete:) open adoptions have become much more prevalent in the last fifteen years or so. It seems like the thinking used to be that it would be confusing for the child to have relationships with both adoptive and biological parents. Obviously that view has changed a ton, but I can buy that Rebecca wanted William out of the picture because she thought it would be the best thing for Randall...of course, lying to him is going to bite her in the ass.

Not to mention, William was a drug addict, who in their right mind would knowingly want to  let their child be exposed to / have to deal with that?

I have four adopted cousins and only one has any interest in meeting her birth parents, even for medical history reasons.  Obviously Randall felt differently, but just because open adoptions are more prevalent doesn't mean that is going to be more successful, there's not enough evidence either way yet.

It's like last week when everyone was blasting Rebecca for trying to feed Kate fruit because we know so much more about nutrition and psychology nowadays, but let's face it, if we are so smart about how to handle it now, why is childhood obesity off the charts compared to the seventies and eighties?

[DearEvette]

22 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

William didn't suggest giving him a different name, I thought Dr. Folksy Charm did.

Naw it was William.  At his apt. Rebecca tells him about the lost baby and not bonding with Baby Kyle and William sort of bursts out "give him his own name."  And then right after she asks him the name of the poet William would recite to Randall's bio mom.

Re: Toby, I will say I thought his little speech to Kate at the Senior living center was kinda funny, mentioning that most of them lived during WWII so if she was bad, they'd actually lived through worse.

Edited October 16, 2016 by DearEvette

[chocolatine]

47 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

It's like last week when everyone was blasting Rebecca for trying to feed Kate fruit because we know so much more about nutrition and psychology nowadays, but let's face it, if we are so smart about how to handle it now, why is childhood obesity off the charts compared to the seventies and eighties?

Two reasons:

1. Processed and low quality food - HFCS, meat/milk from animals treated with hormones, soy in almost everything, fast/junk food being cheaper than fresh produce, parents not having less time to cook from scratch, etc.

2. Less movement - many schools have eliminated recess, kids are spending less time outside playing or riding bikes, electronics/video games/tv, etc.

All of that doesn't make it any less wrong to encourage a kid to eat only fruit.

[RedheadZombie]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I just assumed he had three car seats. They were available, and started becoming mandatory in some states right around the time period the triplets were born. Of course, I didn't notice if their car had seat belts, which would pose a problem.

When Rebecca was discharged from the hospital, Jack told her all three seats were installed and fire department approved.

6 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I don't hate Gerald McRaney, but I do hate him here for much what you describe.  Plus he just keeps spitting out clichés, not even giving real advice. 

And he is clearly on obstetrician, why do they have a follow up apt with him instead of the pediatrician. 

I don't care for GMc, and he's working my last nerve.  Too many years of the militant autocrat played for humor, I guess.  And the doctor seems overly invested in this family, as well as lonely, and almost lethargic.  And while c-sections weren't the norm in 1980, they weren't uncommon.  So I think he's an outdated idiot.  Plus he implied the third baby died long before labor began.  Fetal heart monitors may not have been available back then (I don't know), but there were dopplers, ultrasounds, and other means of checking on triplet fetuses.  And a doctor who has the time and desire to watch my kids while I nap in his office, is a doctor I would avoid.  

It's irritating that Jack is being put on a pedestal, when it seems that Rebecca was raising them alone for years while he hung out at the bar after work.  At least until the kids were eight.  And it bugs that these adult children quote their idolized dad every other minute, yet were mum about mom.  I know it was partly to keep the audience unaware that mom was still alive, but it's irritating.  And I dislike that every positive thing Jack does as a father or a husband seems to originate from Dr. Dad - a man he barely knows.

And the only person required for an OB/Gyne check is the mom - the only person not present.  Less Dr. Dad please!  I'm surprised the twins aren't quoting him every episode, and reminiscing on his hokey words of wisdom:   When life is difficult and you're struggling to keep your head above water -  Don't worry kids, just make some lemonade!

I love everything about this show except the cheesy doctor.  It's like he was written by someone else.  The only blessing is he can't be alive in the present to continue giving his cliched metaphors.

[mojito]

Pardon any repeat comments. When you're in late, it's hard to read all 5 pages' worth of comments first. 

Afro-American. At least in my world in the 1970s, the word "Afro American" was a term uninformed white people used for black people and we laughed at the term. An afro was a hairdo, we would say.

I expected William to point out to Rebecca, as an aside (and to inject humor), that he did not think it would be cool for his son to be the third "K" in that grouping.

I'm going out on a limb on this one, but I suspect that back when Dr. K was coming out of med school in the mid-1920s, doctors weren't so specialized and it wasn't unusual to deliver babies and care for small children, and he already admitted to be old school.

I lost a cousin in the 1960s to a mother reclaiming her child from my aunt.

I liked Parenthood and liked it. Until reading some of these comments, I'd never even thought to compare Parenthood to this show. Might as well throw in Six Feet Under, Brothers and Sisters, Dallas, or the Waltons into the mix.

I'm not saying that I know anything about Kate, but we don't know that she is not a CPA, engineer, or software developer.

I saw that some people were speculating that Jack and Miguel were cops. I had assumed all along that Jack was a cop because in one episode, Jack's leaving for work wearing what looks like a holster on his hip. And when he comes home, he definitely looks like he's slipping off the holster from his belt (attached via clip) and maybe digging his badge out of his front pocket. So I'm thinking that he's a detective or working a job that requires him to be armed.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, mojito said:

 

I saw that some people were speculating that Jack and Miguel were cops. I had assumed all along that Jack was a cop because in one episode, Jack's leaving for work wearing what looks like a holster on his hip. And when he comes home, he definitely looks like he's slipping off the holster from his belt (attached via clip) and maybe digging his badge out of his front pocket. So I'm thinking that he's a detective or working a job that requires him to be armed.

Pretty certain that what he removed from a clip on his belt when he came home drunk with a necklace was a pager not a gun and in the 80s that could mean all sorts of different jobs.

[ShadowFacts]

3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I love everything about this show except the cheesy doctor.  It's like he was written by someone else.  The only blessing is he can't be alive in the present to continue giving his cliched metaphors.

I was okay with him in the first episode even though I haven't loved the actor in the past;  he had a calming influence on Rebecca and helped Jack with  recounting what happened after his own loss.  That didn't make much sense that there was going to be a natural delivery attended by one doctor, they were in Pittsburgh, not out in the middle of nowhere, but I overlooked that.  Now it is just too much that he's got free time in the middle of the day to babysit.  What if he gets called out, where is his office staff, etc.   Also, not so much with the words of wisdom.  Telling him that Rebecca will find her way, blah blah, anyone could say that, it's not that profound or super helpful.  I know we were supposed to see her finding her own way with William, but it was kind of much anvil.  I hope he's not shown repeatedly, for example, dispensing advice about Kate's weight.  I don't know if he's listed as regular cast or guest, I suppose I should look. 

[mojito]

Quote

Pretty certain that what he removed from a clip on his belt when he came home drunk with a necklace was a pager not a gun and in the 80s that could mean all sorts of different jobs.

If it was a pager, it would've been one massive pager. Required a holder that was at least 5 inches long, and wider than just a couple inches. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by mojito

[Sandman]

On 2016-10-01 at 8:23 PM, kitlee625 said:

I'm really glad to see the return of Dr. Folksy Charm.

Of course they named the three of them after Dr. K! Of course they did. How did I not see that? ::sniff:: Excuse me, it's very dusty here, suddenly. Though I guess that means they didn't have a name picked out in advance for the triplet who didn't survive?

I can't decide if Kate's admission to Toby that he comes after Kevin, "everybody does" means she puts everyone in her life second to Kevin, or that everyone in her family takes second place to Kevin. I suspect it's the former; but it just might be the latter, knowing what we know of Kevin.

I find I'm liking all the characters, at least some of the time -- well, not Miguel; the un-Espo is just weirding me out. (Also not loving Jack's pornstache. We get it; it's the 70s, or it was. Please stop doing that with your face.) Mandy Moore is the revelation to me. The look on Rebecca's face in the instant that Jack admitted he was as lost as she was -- that was a gutpunch.

[PRgal]

11 hours ago, mojito said:

If it was a pager, it would've been one massive pager. Required a holder that was at least 5 inches long, and wider than just a couple inches. 

LOL!  I remember seeing a guy at a Chinese restaurant with a Zack Morris phone in the 80s.  The Cantonese slang term for such phones was "dai goh dai" (big brother big - i.e. Mobster Phone). 

[AzraelKay]

I've liked Toby for the most part, but I didn't think forcing someone to sign in front of people was perhaps the best plan [sounds like a nightmare to me, but I sound like a sick goat when I sing].  As for his sex references, I thought that they were mostly joking, but partly to let Kate know he is actually attracted to her -- it seems like she would need that reinforcement.  And until this episode where Randall said his father had been with them one week, I thought it had been longer than that since Kate and Toby met each other.  I think we've seen them go to 2 meetings, I thought at one point he said something about a 3rd date, we know that they went to a party together....seems like a lot for 1 week.  But exact timeline aside, I did think it was a little soon for him to say he wouldn't play 2nd banana to her brother [and employer].   

Edited October 17, 2016 by AzraelKay

[izabella]

I didn't see it as Toby forcing Kate do sing, or to do anything.  If she didn't want to sing, all she had to do was say no and not get out of the limo. 

[Guest]

On 10/15/2016 at 9:43 AM, ribboninthesky1 said:

You think so? I agree on the offensive subtext, but I perceived it was more a sense of entitlement that, since he doesn't "perform grand gestures for every girl he goes on a few dates with," she should see him as priority one.  It didn't occur to me that it was about her weight.  Sadly, it's common for a certain kind of man to feel as if he's owed something because he did something "romantic." Akin to what ThoughtAFool wrote. 

Yeah, her size being part of his pitch is my own interpretation mostly.  But I do feel like he's pushing the "I REALLY like you, as in, for REAL" stuff so hard you have to wonder why he expects her to think he's not that into her, if not due to her weight?  

I imagine Toby's insistence is the writers' way of telling us in as few words/scenes as possible that Kate has low self-esteem and doesn't think she deserves 'it all', due to her weight.  But the actress isn't playing Kate as a wallflower.  She comes off self-assured, poised and competent.  Sure, she doesn't like her weight but that's true of virtually all women I know.  

[ribboninthesky1]

Ah, I see what you mean. The writers have hit the "Kate's self-esteem is negative zero! She's self-loathing! Because she's obese!" button hard thus far. But I think the actress is more self-assured, and it comes across in her performance. 

1 hour ago, AzraelKay said:

And until this episode where Randall said his father had been with them one week, I thought it had been longer than that since Kate and Toby met each other.  I think we've seen them go to 2 meetings, I thought at one point he said something about a 3rd date, we know that they went to a party together....seems like a lot for 1 week. 

You bring up a good point with the meetings.  You'd think they were once a week, which could make it seem they've been dating longer. He said something about them having 3 lunches and 4 dinners and they've made out X times (ep 2), and it seems like he's been with her every day since they met. Maybe the meetings are twice a week? 

The wonky timeline confirms my belief that the writers are playing fast and loose with details to hit certain emotional milestones.  Or maybe this is a sci-fi show in disguise, with the east and west coasts operating in different time dimensions. 

[PRgal]

On 2016-10-16 at 6:08 AM, SlackerInc said:

Yes, and I think he's written to throw out those lines about sex to give him an "edge", so he's not just some impossibly gallant Prince Charming.

That they don't feature those sizes is completely absurd, since most female characters on TV are straight, and that's the range straight men find most attractive (12, specifically, is the sweet spot).  But they should also have some female actors on TV who are a little above that, sizes that straight men might see as non-ideal, but still short of being, as you say, morbidly obese.

Interesting about the physicality coach, because I noticed her doing something when she walked, or stood up maybe, that was noticeably stiff or creaky.

I think proportion is important.  A woman can be a size 12 (or any size, for that matter) and NOT be "attractive" because she's out of proportion.  Height is also key.  If you're tall and a 12, you're going to appear slim.  If you're short, not so much.

[IrishPirate]

I wonder if we need to let go of the "everything's happening at the same time" mindset. The one fixed point we have is their birthdays.

[ShadowFacts]

16 hours ago, mojito said:

If it was a pager, it would've been one massive pager. Required a holder that was at least 5 inches long, and wider than just a couple inches. 

I didn't even notice what he pulled out of his pocket, but the old pagers were pretty bulky (and first mobile phones).  A thing that might be a clue against being on the police force was that I think Miguel said Jack was in the bar on his second drink at 5:05 or something, and most police shifts are probably 7-3, 3-11, 11-7-ish.  Maybe detectives are more 9-5, not sure. 

[ohjoy]

On 10/14/2016 at 8:31 PM, Amethyst said:

I just remembered a line from the pilot.  One of the first things Kate said to Kevin was "Tell me to lose the damn weight already."  I think that says something about Kate and how she gets motivated.  If she's that insecure, then she might need a cheerleader to get her started, even if she knows what she wants and what she needs to do.  

It could also be that she knows how she's used to responding to a command/request that comes from a family member, particularly Kevin, since he's also her boss.

I think it also says something that that was the only line that Kevin didn't tell her. He had asked her what she wanted him to say to help her out, and she gave him three lines -- the one about her weight he pretended not to remember, so she had to repeat herself several times, until she decided on her own, without his input. He essentially allowed her to give herself the command, rather than just accepting it as a command from him. It said a lot (at least to me) about how Kevin views Kate, versus how she may view herself. That seemed to be reinforced in this ep when she said she didn't know who she was without him, and he said, "I do. You're gonna love her."

Edited October 17, 2016 by RandomMe

[mojito]

The mobile phones of the mid-80s were bricks! 

I watched a particular portion of the second episode over and over again. If that's not a gun, the show is making the effort to steer us in that direction. They don't want us to be certain, that's clear. 

The reason that I went back to view that second episode was that I wondered why I was under the impression that Jack was a cop. It was a particular visual that made me think so.

Maybe he was  a drug dealer with a two-way radio. Or he carried his slide rule or calculator on his hip. (Actually, the calculator makes sense. Those scientific calculators were/are fairly large large.)

[MamaMax]

4 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Yeah, her size being part of his pitch is my own interpretation mostly.  But I do feel like he's pushing the "I REALLY like you, as in, for REAL" stuff so hard you have to wonder why he expects her to think he's not that into her, if not due to her weight?  

I imagine Toby's insistence is the writers' way of telling us in as few words/scenes as possible that Kate has low self-esteem and doesn't think she deserves 'it all', due to her weight.  But the actress isn't playing Kate as a wallflower.  She comes off self-assured, poised and competent.  Sure, she doesn't like her weight but that's true of virtually all women I know.  

His horny approach is getting on my nerves as well. Perhaps lazy writing? Trying to get across that he's hot for her, not going to friend-zone her.

There's an element of the "fat girls aren't sexy" myth that they are trying to dispel, but it's not working for me. It's too clunky.   The actors don't seem to have chemistry to me.  It would be better if you could just TELL he was super attracted to her, and not just horny and wanting to get laid. 

[Chaos Theory]

I like Toby for the most part and I hate hate hate the term "nice guy trope".  It's right up there with "special snowflake" and "woobie" 9f trope terms that drive me up the wall because I feel they often miss the point.  Of course Toby got annoyed when Kate dropped him at a moments notice to chase after her brother.  I'd get kind of pissed too if I was him.  'Maybe he said things he shouldn't have but we all do when we are angry.   When someone tries to do something nice and aren't appreciated that can be off putting.  That being said he did handle it badly and he does need to tone his grand gestures down a bit especially if he really does like Kate.  So many grand gestures does put the wrong kind of pressure.  

[kat165]

Of course we could be all wrong on the timeline as someone mentioned above. We don't know that all this is happening at exactly the same time. But with groups like Overeaters or AA and perhaps Weight Watchers you go to a meeting when you feel you need a meeting. They're going on all the time. You can get a schedule.

[Dowel Jones]

On 10/11/2016 at 7:11 PM, SimoneS said:

And as someone else mentioned, commercials kept cutting into scenes in a weird way - they need to fix that!

On the other hand, I, for one, will give props to the TJ Maxx commercial at the first break every episode.  Very understated and no product sales pitch.

Also a tip of the hat to Randall for his sendoff to Miguel and Rebecca:  "Thanks for dropping by unexpectedly!  (Oops, rewind) Thanks for dropping by!"  Nothing like dropping an anvil.

[biakbiak]

9 hours ago, mojito said:

The mobile phones of the mid-80s were bricks! 

I watched a particular portion of the second episode over and over again. If that's not a gun, the show is dmaking the effort to steer us in that direction. They don't want us to be certain, that's clear. 

The reason that I went back to view that second episode was that I wondered why I was under the impression that Jack was a cop. It was a particular visual that made me think so.

Maybe he was  a drug dealer with a two-way radio. Or he carried his slide rule or calculator on his hip. (Actually, the calculator makes sense. Those scientific calculators were/are fairly large large.)

I don't think anyone would leave a loaded gun on a table by the front door in house with three 8 year olds. There is absolutely no indication that he is a cop.

[SlackerInc]

On 10/16/2016 at 9:09 AM, Aloeonatable said:

Granted he seemed like that is all he was, an OB/GYN, but maybe he was a family physician or was asked by Jack and Rebecca to examine the babies.

It says "Obstetrician" on his name tag.  Which I think was kind of a mistake to hem him in like that, because family doctors can deliver babies.  OTOH, he said "I'm the best" for a high-risk pregnancy, and that's kind of got to be an OB.