S33.E02: Love Goggles

[Jersey Guy 87]

5 hours ago, Trick Question said:

I'm a little astounded that Paul volunteered to (or was allowed to) do the more strenuous swimming part of the challenge so soon after having some type of heat-stroke.

 

Maybe they figured this was the best way to re-hydrate him.  It seemed to work.

21 minutes ago, innocuouspuff said:

My favourite moment: the millenials basically claiming they invented casual sexual contact. They're okay with hooking up! which no generation before them has ever thought of doing, of course.

Yeah, that was pretty funny.  Every generation seems to go through this, though - when you're young you think you're much more free sexually than that "uptight" generation that's older than you, when you get a little older you complain that the new young generation is way too loose sexually.

I'm still struggling to find people to root for this season, I've got plenty to root against so far.  In other words, a fairly normal season for me.

[Charlesman]

I loved that last week's math mistake payed off so quickly: the 'TriForce' which became a four-force suddenly realized that they didn't have the numbers in a group of 10. Surprise! 

 

My other favorite little moment was the little Probst in the background, peeking his head around the corner to see if Hannah voted yet. Hilarious. 

[huahaha]

3 minutes ago, Superpole2000 said:

Mari's case is more interesting. I don't know why she was specifically targeted.

Michelle (correctly, I think) recognized Mari as the other strategic player, who was out for Michelle's alliance. By cutting Mari out and recruiting Hannah to do it, she strengthened her numbers. Everyone else bought into the threat.

[laurakaye]

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I love the Michelle/Hannah team-up and I hope it continues a long and glorious Survivor duo.

 

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I just really like the idea of Ken and David working together to take down the older guy group. 

I'n not sure which duo I am more geeked about.  If these two couples somehow joined forces and went to Final Four?  This season might finally topple Cook Islands as my favorite season EVER.

[marys1000]

Right out of the gate one of the things I hate the most in movies and TV - that smacking smacking smacking sound of kissing - ewwwwww. I really like Micheala (sp) but she seems really focused on Figgy. I get that figgy is annoying and in a couple but spread it around some. I was having some trouble being engaged this episode so I don't know if it was that or the editing but when reading the votes at TC it was like.....oh there are 2 big alliances at war here?!? Yea, Paul surprised me with his swimming skill. Dave surprised me with how bad his was. His arc is so obvious. Like Ken collecting the non male alpha types and hope that works, doesn't seem like it has in the past.

Cant edit. Could Michealla be jealous?

[SlackerInc]

11 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I know many female models are shy.  Not many were popular in high school, or even went to prom.  But that's most likely due to their height and awkwardness with that newly acquired height.  Men learn early that excessive height is preferable, and male models tend to be exceedingly pretty.  Whereas many female models have great bone structure and are "interesting" looking, translation - easily dismissed (by many) as homely dorks.

Right, good point.  Whereas many people seem to be dismissing Figgy's looks because they are not that of a model (maybe a catalog model--do they still have those?) but in a "girl next door" sense she is very attractive (but I do like the freckled look and I know some people don't).  Gorgeous eyes and smile for sure--and I will not pretend to agree with Michaela as I would have no problem "macking" with Figgy in that scenario!

However, I was still hoping she'd be the one voted out, as I liked Mari and that whole group better.

I see a lot of "go girl" cheering for Michaela, but do her fans really think she's playing a smart game?  Hard for me to see how being that confrontational works for her over the long term.

I liked the design of that challenge.  And no puzzles!  Those get old.

[survivinmt]

I like this season already! Lots of game play and people excited just about being there. And glad to see some of my pre-conceived notions about people change - like Will, thought I would hate him because he was so young, and at first seemed dippy. But he seemed very serious and mature talking strategy. He doesn't always have to be serious but when called for . . . good showing.  Thought I would like Paul, but he is already kind of a blow-hard. Eager to learn about more people on the Gen-X tribe. Haven't heard much about Jessica, Sunday, or really even Chris or Bret (are those their names?).

Anyone who says, like Figgy, "I'm not just a pretty face." gives me instant irritation. ? Who says this about themselves. Bleh. And I was commenting to Mr survivin on how nasty it was to be making out with someone only to be interrupted by Michaela with my own thoughts coming out of her mouth. And the bunny - HA!

[Ms Blue Jay]

Never mind, this was covered.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[KimberStormer]

2 hours ago, Jobiska said:

So that did actually happen on camera?  

Yeah!  There was a scene with Zeke, I think Adam (if there's one person I want to see go ASAP, it is Adam), and Jay, where Zeke laid out the Figgy-then-Michaela plan.

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, innocuouspuff said:

My favourite moment: the millenials basically claiming they invented casual sexual contact. They're okay with hooking up! which no generation before them has ever thought of doing, of course.

I'd blame all the thinkpieces about that, actually, of which there are probably several dozen.  Such thinkpieces were a huge 'thing' at one point. And I'm going to bet they were written by Gen-Xers.

One of the craziest things that Gen X or Baby Boomers (I'm guessing) do is release a thinkpiece every week on a new thing that Millennials are supposedly abstaining from (buying houses. Because they're just so wealthy and it's a choice.  Living on their own.  Sex. Dating.  Committed relationships. blah blah blah.  Corn on the cob!  Horses.  Whatever.)  Anyways it's all just mumbo jumbo clickbait bullshit to get clicks and views.  

Edited September 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, Charlesman said:

My other favorite little moment was the little Probst in the background, peeking his head around the corner to see if Hannah voted yet. Hilarious. 

I also really loved that.  That felt very novel for this show.

I'm sick of people bringing up "Demographics of the U.S.A." as justification for a low amount of minorities on a show that's been on for THIRTY THREE SEASONS.   I wish people would give it up.

If you watch Project Runway, half the cast (at least) is gay and there are always people FROM OTHER COUNTRIES and there are people who don't speak English as a first language and hardly as a second, and there are racial minorities EVERYWHERE.  It can be done.  There's no reason why it can't.  There's no reason why any American show has to be majority white.  Stop thinking like that.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[blackwing]

I'm curious about why Ken was so ostracised from the "Paul's Posse" alliance.  The core members of that alliance seem to be three overweight men.  Ken is in the best shape of anyone on his tribe, and I would have thought he is far more "alpha male" than any of the PP men.  Is it his self-described "socially awkward" personality?  He seemed to interact just fine from what I saw.

I don't care for the Taylor/Figgy whatever it is, and I think the two of them are playing stupid.  Taylor especially seems like a particularly dim bulb.  His comment at tribal was something like "yeah, whatever, it's still early in the game so it shouldn't affect things much" and made absolutely no sense.  They could be smarter about it... don't sit there next to each other and make it so obvious.  On Blood vs. Water, once the numbers dwindled a little, the ones who still had a loved one were targeted because it was assumed they represented two votes.  Have Taylor and Figgy never seen the show before?  I guess it's the old Millenial "yeah dude, free love, bro brah it's cool" attitude.  I guess they think because they represent the "slacker" generation that their tribemates should be more accepting and understanding?

I agree that Mari's "we are Millenials, we grew up in front of screens" comment had to have been prompted.  But I thought it was a stupid comment.  I grew up with a TV in the kitchen as well at dinner, and I'm nowhere near Millenial.  If she meant "screens" as in iPhones, iPads and what not.  Well then.  The first iPhone came out in 2007.  That was only 10 years ago.  I know there's one guy who is 18, but aren't many of them in their late 20s?  Before the iPhone, there were no games and apps and videos on phones.  If the iPhone came out when a Millenial was 19, I'd hardly say they "grew up" with mobile devices.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Mari most definitely said Television screens which is stupid because it can apply to Baby Boomers and Generation X just as much if not more than Millennials.  I admit I fully grew up in front of a television but I'm one of the oldest Millennials and from what I hear, my family was unique that way.  She could have been referring to her gaming.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[piequinn35]

Dave is so thin, if he goes to the end, he will be a skeleton :/

[iMonrey]

There's something about this season that's making me uncomfortable, and it has to do with Paul and his pals calling David their "puppy," as well as the socially awkward Hannah being so easily manipulated by Michelle.

See, ever since the bullying incident with Shireen, it sort of feels like the show is deliberately trying to re-create that dynamic by throwing obvious misfits with similar awkward personality traits into a group of Type A personalities and jocks. The thing with Shireen got everyone talking, and reality shows don't distinguish between negative chatter and positive chatter. Either equals ratings and attention as far as they're concerned. And it really sours me on the show in general to think they're aiming for this type of situation again.

I may be over-generalizing at this early stage, but the main storyline - as far as the editing is concerned - over on GenX seems to be David vs. the Goliath of "Paul's Posse," and the casting of Hannah strikes me as odd amongst a group of otherwise white bread pretty people. The story thread about a lone dork among a posse of cool kids doesn't really appeal to me. It feels too easy and potentially too hateful.

So, apparently there's someone named Jessica and someone named Lucy over on GenX, and someone named Adam over on Millennials. News to me. Also? Jay claims to be a real estate agent. Uh huh.

[piequinn35]

Who is Lucy?

[blackwing]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

So, apparently there's someone named Jessica and someone named Lucy over on GenX, and someone named Adam over on Millennials. News to me. Also? Jay claims to be a real estate agent. Uh huh.

Adam is the one who was really irritating during the first episode, the homeless shelter manager who acts like an expert on the game and talks in his Announcer Voice.  "We are being evacuated.  We have never seen this happen in 33 seasons of the game!"  He seemed to get much less airtime during this episode.  I think Lucy is the remaining Asian female, she has gotten pretty much zero screen time.  No clue who Jessica is.  I just found out from Jeff talking during the challenge that there is a woman named Sunday.

[piequinn35]

Jessica is the eye infected girl. Sunday I think is a youth pastor. But I don't know who is Lucy, okay the other Asian I remember now. :/

Chris/Bret/Paul = overweight trifecta

Edited September 29, 2016 by piequinn35

[KimberStormer]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

There's something about this season that's making me uncomfortable, and it has to do with Paul and his pals calling David their "puppy," as well as the socially awkward Hannah being so easily manipulated by Michelle.

See, ever since the bullying incident with Shireen, it sort of feels like the show is deliberately trying to re-create that dynamic by throwing obvious misfits with similar awkward personality traits into a group of Type A personalities and jocks. The thing with Shireen got everyone talking, and reality shows don't distinguish between negative chatter and positive chatter. Either equals ratings and attention as far as they're concerned. And it really sours me on the show in general to think they're aiming for this type of situation again.

I may be over-generalizing at this early stage, but the main storyline - as far as the editing is concerned - over on GenX seems to be David vs. the Goliath of "Paul's Posse," and the casting of Hannah strikes me as odd amongst a group of otherwise white bread pretty people. The story thread about a lone dork among a posse of cool kids doesn't really appeal to me. It feels too easy and potentially too hateful.

Survivor has literally always cast both pretty telegenic jocks and weirdo misfits.  Generally speaking the misfits have done pretty well for themselves, and the jocks less so, to my mind.  Anyway, being an awkward weirdo doesn't make you a victim -- did anyone think that poor, downtrodden nerd Coach, with his love of classical music and terrible social skills, was some kind of victim in Tocantins?

I myself don't like the harping on Hannah as victim, a naive innocent nerd taken for a ride by her desperate desire to be one of the cool kids.  This is pure projection, it's imaginary.  Hannah is a goof, and hilarious, but she's never expressed any desire to be cool.  She worked with Mari to take the cool kids out.  (I bet dollars to donuts she'd say that Mari was the cool person out there, with her rad hair and awesome job, not, like, Taylor.)  Did she listen to Michelle?  Yes, but what has that got to do with coolness?  Did Michelle give any kind of "vote with me or you can't sit with us" vibe whatsoever?  Is she even anything like a mean girl?  No, as she said in the first episode, she and Hannah have an empathetic connection that was built early.  I don't think Hannah likes Michelle because she's "cool", just because she likes Michelle.  Nor do I think she was "easily manipulated".  We saw her counting on her fingers in the voting booth.  She was figuring it out.  Voting for Figgy = severely hurting her game for no reason.

It's helpful to read Hannah's pre-game interviews, I think.  She's not some naive idiot desperate to be included.  Here's one relevant excerpt from Gordon Holmes's interview with her: "Shapiro: The people I’d want to work with, I wouldn’t want to sit with at the end. I’m a big fan of (John) Cochran and Stephen (Fishbach). I think it’d be fun to play with superfans. Like (Jonathan) Penner just to hear him talk. Those are some of my favorites. But if I have to align with someone to take to the end, I’d want them to be pretty and stupid."

Give the girl some credit. 

[Tdoc72]

17 hours ago, LanceM said:

Am I the only one who thought that Hannah was going to vote for Figgy, cross her name out and then vote Mari instead?

No. I also thought she might take her vote back out of the urn and change her mind. 

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I guess I just see it as a one-way street. Hannah may feel close to Michelle and trust her (although, it can't be explicitly, or she wouldn't have waffled so badly). But I don't think Michelle feels the same way. I see her as using Hannah, and Hannah is too blinded to be able to see that. 

You may be right about this (I don't think we have enough info to tell yet tbh) and from what we know I agree with you, but I just don't think it has anything to do with Hannah wanting to be 'cool.'

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm sick of people bringing up "Demographics of the U.S.A." as justification for a low amount of minorities on a show that's been on for THIRTY THREE SEASONS.   I wish people would give it up.

+1

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I'm curious about why Ken was so ostracised from the "Paul's Posse" alliance.

I'm thinking it might have to do with him countering Paul's "Millennials suck and us Gen Xers are awesome!" speech in the first ep and reminding everyone not to underestimate the Millennials. Paul wants control and he likely sees Ken as someone who could take that away from him. 

How do you all think Michelle figured out that enough people were voting for Mari that she was going to definitely be the one evicted? Because from the edit it seems like her, Zeke, Adam, and Mari were under the impression that Will and Michaela (and maybe even Jay) were with them in voting out Figgy.

Edited September 29, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[TaraS1]

I really, really can't stand Figgy.  She's way too, "I'm too pretty to get voted out, so I'm not even stressin' about it, man..." for me.  I just get waves of entitlement coming off of her and I hate people like that.

[fishcakes]

20 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

How do you all think Michelle figured out that enough people were voting for Mari that she was going to definitely be the one evicted? Because from the edit it seems like her, Zeke, Adam, and Mari were under the impression that Will and Michaela (and maybe even Jay) were with them in voting out Figgy.

I think you mean Hannah there, not Michelle, and if so, I agree with you. Zeke, Adam, and Mari though they had Will and Michaela, and the Fourfecta or WTFever they're calling themselves thought they had Will and Michaela. When Michaela and Figgy started sniping at each other, Michelle felt less secure about Michaela and so she decided to flip Hannah then and there. Hannah was obviously completely surprised by that because she kept saying, "give me a reason," so I believe she was originally in with Zeke, Adam, and Mari and thinking they had majority of six. This doesn't explain why she was counting on her fingers in the voting booth, but unless Michelle gave her more information than "I'll tell you later," I can't see how Hannah was correctly doing the math on who was voting for whom because based on what we saw, she shouldn't have thought Will and Michaela were voting against Mari. But who knows? Maybe she was counting votes; maybe she was counting puppies and butts.

I know that most of the "as a millennial" chatter is producer-prompted, but why does it have to be so stupid?

Adam: AS A MILLENNIAL, I WATCH TV AND NOW I AM IN THE TV!
Mari: As a millennial and a gamer and a human, I am learning that other humans have human feelings when not gaming or something.

I don't know; I'm not really loving anyone right now, although I would like to congratulate Ken on his fine looks. He's got a Jon Hamm thing going on, and he seems like a decent guy, but then he said "David and I's alliance" and I had to pound on my thumb with a hammer.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

A Millennial Power Couple Emerges On Survivor

And their tribemates recognize that strong couples have to be sent packing.

[derriere]

On the face of it that was a terrible move for Hannah but she's playing such a wacky character that I suspect she may trip over a kindly placed idol in the very near future. She's not going anywhere.

Very impressed with Ken. I'm surprised we haven't seen more octopus dinners on Survivor as they're abundant and incredibly easy to catch. Where I live you don't have to venture farther than ankle deep at low tide.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

 

I'm curious about why Ken was so ostracised from the "Paul's Posse" alliance.  The core members of that alliance seem to be three overweight men.  Ken is in the best shape of anyone on his tribe, and I would have thought he is far more "alpha male" than any of the PP men.  Is it his self-described "socially awkward" personality?  He seemed to interact just fine from what I saw.

 

I wish we'd seen more of their tribe dynamics. I don't know that he's necessarily ostracized. I think the ones outside of the group were Rachel, Lucy, CeeCee, and David. But I just got the impression that Ken realized the 3 bigger guys were tighter than anyone else, with maybe Sunday or Jessica as their 4th, and that Paul is basically running them all. And he's not okay with that. I felt like he realized he needed to get himself in a better position, because he's at the bottom of the totem pole with that group. 

I wish we'd seen more of Jessica this week. I'd like to see her and CeeCee work with Ken and David. 

 

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

Dave is so thin, if he goes to the end, he will be a skeleton :/

Indeed. I don't like to shame thin people any more than heavy people, because often they honestly can't help it. But I'm seriously scared for how bad he could get. 

[BusyOctober]

Jay's conversation with his main 'bro' Taylor included, "I'm not losing a million dollars, bro!  I need it. And you do too bro, if you want to keep surfing!"  I'm not sure when this was filmed, but I think it was when Bernie Sanders was still hanging in the Presidential race.  I keep hearing Millennials were the biggest block of Bernie's supporters, and based on some of the conversations these "kids" had last night, it may be true.  I get the sense Jay & Taylor think there will be redistribution of wealth so that if any of them win, they all win.  Or maybe because of that old stereotype applied to their generation; "everyone gets a trophy", these guys think this game ends with Fair-sies Rules applied?

Michaela needs a job as side snark commentator.  Her comments about the 'Power Couples' make out session and the stupidity of flaunting their couple-hood was dead on.  I know beauty (or horniness) is in the eye (or crotch) of the beholder, but I don't see the hotness factor these two see in each other. Figgy is moderately attractive (and could do a LOT better), but Taylor is full on goofy looking.  But, then again, I never found the stoner clueless look appealing, even when I was stoned and clueless oh-so many years ago.

And really with the "Power Couple" already??? They've known each other for 4 days!  I don't think Beyonce & JayZ are sweatin' their position in the next issues of People or Forbes.  What's their celebrity name? #Taggy? #Figlor? How about "hashtagshutup"?

Edited September 29, 2016 by BusyOctober
Fixed names

[Silver Raven]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

When Mari got voted out, my son (8) said - "The first thing she's going to do when she gets home is play video games". 

Why not?  It's her job.

[Silver Raven]

24 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

Zeke's conversation with his main 'bro' Taylor included, "I'm not losing a million dollars, bro!  I need it. And you do too bro, if you want to keep surfing!"

That's Jay.  Zeke is the slightly overweight guy who is the oldest on the Millenials tribe, wears a Hawaiian shirt, and thinks he's more like an 80-year-old.

I think that Ken doesn't really associate with the leaders of the Gen-X team because he's the youngest on the tribe and feels more comfortable with the Millenials.

[piequinn35]

Mari can start playing video games in Ponderosa on her tablet or phone before  going home.

[Wouldofshouldof]

19 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I did love Hannah during the challenge when she told her tribe mate she was ripping through the water too (after Jeff said that about the competition).

I took this as another example of the Millennials being used to everyone getting a trophy, even if it is a cliche.  Said tribe mate was not "ripping through the water" as well as the Gen-Xer, but Hannah didn't want her tribe mate to feel "left out."

[ghoulina]

31 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

Why not?  It's her job.

I know. It wasn't said in a negative way or anything. That was just the comment he made. I thought it was kind of funny. Like - "I can't wait to get off this island and back to playing video games!" She did mention it quite a bit, and him being an 8-year-old boy, I guess that's what stood out to him. 

 

50 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

I know beauty (or horniness) is in the eye (or crotch) of the beholder, but I don't see the hotness factor these two see in each other. Figgy is moderately attractive (and could do a LOT better), but Taylor is full on goofy looking.  But, then again, I never found the stoner clueless look appealing, even when I was stoned and clueless oh-so many years ago.

Taylor is SO not my type. But she did say something about his eyes, and they are an alarming shade of blue. I could see a young girl like her falling for that. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Zeke's conversation with his main 'bro' Taylor included, "I'm not losing a million dollars, bro! 

Jay (not Zeke, as already pointed out) also called himself "your boy." I just spent a summer of "your boy" over on Big Brother, so I'm not anxious to relive it. I guess that is a thing, that the kids are saying these days.

[Silver Raven]

I thought it was weird that the Millenials call other guys "that kid" or "this kid".  I guess it's not used condescendingly.

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

 

 

I myself don't like the harping on Hannah as victim, a naive innocent nerd taken for a ride by her desperate desire to be one of the cool kids.  This is pure projection, it's imaginary. 

 

Thank you.  Every season we get the "these are the cool kids" and "these are the people who desperately want to fit in with the cool kids," analogies and as someone who did my time in high school reading Gothic romances behind the text books and didn't really start to live until a few years after graduation, I find it very hard to imagine anyone still caring.  I didn't care when it was happening.  Hannah probably has a nice group of interesting friends and no interest at all in partying with someone like  Figgy.

 

3 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm sick of people bringing up "Demographics of the U.S.A." as justification for a low amount of minorities on a show that's been on for THIRTY THREE SEASONS.   I wish people would give it up.

If you watch Project Runway, half the cast (at least) is gay and there are always people FROM OTHER COUNTRIES and there are people who don't speak English as a first language and hardly as a second, and there are racial minorities EVERYWHERE.  It can be done.  There's no reason why it can't.  There's no reason why any American show has to be majority white.  Stop thinking like that.

 

I don't think anyone here has ever said the show has to be majority white.  I've never heard anyone even imply that.  When the demographics come out is always after someone has complained that there aren't enough people from group X. Then the demographics come out to show that group X isn't being discriminated against, because  they are being fairly represented as they appear in the population.  Of course, as you pointed out, group X can dominate a show like "Project Runway," without anyone complaining.  It's only if group X happens to be white that there are complaints.  So the people casting "Survivor," ever worried that there will be problems if they don't have enough of certain  groups checks the demographics to try and be fair and still gets people saying "Not enough X!" Every year.   I think the "Stop thinking like that!" is the constant ethnic head counting  because they are  all Americans.

[lilabennet]

16 hours ago, Artsda said:

I loved how Michelle turned the vote and also at the same time made Mari think she was so dumb. Thought she was talking about bugs or something when really she was turning the vote.

Also big credit to Jay for getting Michaela to vote with them considering she hates Figgy and doesn't hide it.

I thought that was one of the saddest parts of the show last night.  I doubt Mari thought they were talking about puppies.  She knew they were talking about the game, but she thought Hannah was her friend and she tried to deflect attention from her friend in an awkward situation by defusing it with humor.  And the whole time her friend was turning against her.

[azshadowwalker]

17 hours ago, GaT said:

Taylor and Figgy are idiots. You can't wait 39 days before you get your rocks off? No, so much better to make yourself a target. Morons.

Yeah. Rob and Amber really screwed themselves back in the day, too. 

I think "entitled" is right up there with "vocal fry" as meaningless terms to me when it comes to reality shows. 

Edited September 29, 2016 by azshadowwalker

[Wandering Snark]

3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Adam: AS A MILLENNIAL, I WATCH TV AND NOW I AM IN THE TV!

[blackwing]

45 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't think anyone here has ever said the show has to be majority white.  I've never heard anyone even imply that.  When the demographics come out is always after someone has complained that there aren't enough people from group X. Then the demographics come out to show that group X isn't being discriminated against, because  they are being fairly represented as they appear in the population.  Of course, as you pointed out, group X can dominate a show like "Project Runway," without anyone complaining.  It's only if group X happens to be white that there are complaints.  So the people casting "Survivor," ever worried that there will be problems if they don't have enough of certain  groups checks the demographics to try and be fair and still gets people saying "Not enough X!" Every year.   I think the "Stop thinking like that!" is the constant ethnic head counting  because they are  all Americans.

I'm not sure if I agree with this.  Survivor itself acknowledged the fact that there weren't many minorities on its show.  They claimed that they "had a hard time getting minorities to apply" (yeah... right) so they came out with what many call "The Race Season".  For the only time in the history of the show, minorities outnumbered whites 3 to 1.  And yet, immediately after that season, they pretty much went right back to "the formula".  One token black male, one token black female, one token Asian female, a vaguely Hispanic person or two, occasionally an Asian male, and a sea of white faces.  I thought this season was interesting because they didn't seem to follow their formula.  Despite the fact that all of the males are white, 50% of the women are either black or Asian.

That's why I found it especially difficult to see that an Asian woman was targeted in each of the first two episodes.  I don't know if there were any underlying racial reasons for them getting voted out (probably not) but it's still kind of tough to see.  Just like how there was an uproar about last year's TV season when shows kept killing off lesbians.  I don't really think there's an agenda there, it's just tough to view.

Mari's boot was ostensibly because she is a strategic player, but all of that came only from Michelle.  None of the others seemed to particularly think she was a threat.  In fact, many of the others seemed threatened by the so-called Power Couple.  Meanwhile, the pretty people alliance or whatever they are calling themselves (Figgy, Taylor, Jay) basically threaten Michaela into voting out Mari by flat out saying the Michaela is next to go if she doesn't vote with them.  I guess Michelle is calling the shots though.  She felt more threatened by Mari and her supposed strategic acumen, even though Mari wasn't particularly good in challenges (she did very poorly on her swim), than she did by a Power Couple who thinks they are calling the shots.

Hannah's vote was superfluous since there were enough votes to evict Mari without her.  Only Zeke, Mari and Adam voted for Figgy.  But it's too bad that she didn't stand by who I thought was her closest ally.  It was obvious she was completely clueless about the vote.  For all she knew, her vote could have saved Mari.

[iMonrey]

Quote

And yet, immediately after that season, they pretty much went right back to "the formula".  One token black male, one token black female, one token Asian female, a vaguely Hispanic person or two, occasionally an Asian male, and a sea of white faces.

And that's pretty much what I alluded to in my post WRT Hannah and David. Look at all the faces on the Millennials tribe, then look at this. And tell me she fits right in. There is a "cast of characters" - or a formula, as you put it - they feel the need to fill every year which includes "dork" or "dweeb" or "misfit." Someone awkward who doesn't look like they even belong there. It just makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes they do well, sometimes they don't, but either way, I'd hate to be cast as "this season's doofus."

[JudyObscure]

So if they aim for diversity they're accused of token this and token that and a cast of characters, but if they left out the tokens and dorks and dweebs wouldn't they be left with that hated  sea of pretty white faces?  Year after year I've seen the first boot be an older white woman and I don't really find that any easier to watch than a young Asian woman.  This year the first boot was voted out for the very same reason as most of those older white women -- bossiness.

[Michel]

11 hours ago, Superpole2000 said:

1 non-Hispanic Asian (this season) = 3.0%

You did watch San Juan del Sur and Worlds Apart, right?  The first boots from those seasons, Nadiya (whose twin sister, Natalie, actually went on to win the whole thing!) and So, respectively, were Asian, as well.  So there've been three Asian first boots -- Nadiya, So, and Rachel.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Michel

[Hera]

I think the Ken and David alliance has the potential to be the sort of unlikely relationship that I enjoy seeing on this show. I also like it because it seems like the alliance makes sense for both of them. Ken is good in challenges and around camp, which will make him a target around the merge, while David is not good at either of those things, paranoid, but is also the one who figured out how to search (successfully) for the hidden immunity idol without his tribemates figuring it out. He'll be a target before the merge, but likely left alone after. Teaming up might mean that they can help the heat off of each other. It's the sort of alliance that I thought Joe Anglim (whose strengths are similar to Ken's) should have tried to make.

5 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Survivor has literally always cast both pretty telegenic jocks and weirdo misfits.  Generally speaking the misfits have done pretty well for themselves, and the jocks less so, to my mind.  Anyway, being an awkward weirdo doesn't make you a victim -- did anyone think that poor, downtrodden nerd Coach, with his love of classical music and terrible social skills, was some kind of victim in Tocantins?

I myself don't like the harping on Hannah as victim, a naive innocent nerd taken for a ride by her desperate desire to be one of the cool kids.  This is pure projection, it's imaginary.  Hannah is a goof, and hilarious, but she's never expressed any desire to be cool.  She worked with Mari to take the cool kids out.  (I bet dollars to donuts she'd say that Mari was the cool person out there, with her rad hair and awesome job, not, like, Taylor.)  Did she listen to Michelle?  Yes, but what has that got to do with coolness?  Did Michelle give any kind of "vote with me or you can't sit with us" vibe whatsoever?  Is she even anything like a mean girl?  No, as she said in the first episode, she and Hannah have an empathetic connection that was built early.  I don't think Hannah likes Michelle because she's "cool", just because she likes Michelle.  Nor do I think she was "easily manipulated".  We saw her counting on her fingers in the voting booth.  She was figuring it out.  Voting for Figgy = severely hurting her game for no reason.

It's helpful to read Hannah's pre-game interviews, I think.  She's not some naive idiot desperate to be included.  Here's one relevant excerpt from Gordon Holmes's interview with her: "Shapiro: The people I’d want to work with, I wouldn’t want to sit with at the end. I’m a big fan of (John) Cochran and Stephen (Fishbach). I think it’d be fun to play with superfans. Like (Jonathan) Penner just to hear him talk. Those are some of my favorites. But if I have to align with someone to take to the end, I’d want them to be pretty and stupid."

Give the girl some credit. 

Hannah's interviews show a lot of self-awareness. In one, she even points out that she gets away with flirting a lot more than people realize because she comes off more as a non-threatening dork than a man-eater (not that there's anything wrong with being either of those things). As for her vote, I think she took a risk that has paid off—at least in the short-term. I have no idea whether she figured out that Mari was going anyway, but as it is, her vote wasn't the deciding one and now she has voted with the majority, which buys her some cover on her tribe.

I would have been agonizing over that vote, too, in her place. I'd be worried and a little offended that I was being told about the vote at Tribal Council instead of before, given no justification, and paranoid that this was some sort of ploy to make me waste a vote to avoid a tie. On the other hand, Hannah and Michelle have a personal connection, and if Hannah were the true target, it's unlikely Michelle would be telling her who to vote for. So Hannah could reasonably assume that—at worst—this was Michelle testing her and a chance for her to build game trust with Michelle. The fact that it put her on the right side of the numbers is how she can justify switching her vote to Adam and Zeke: "Sorry guys. I got extra information that I couldn't share with you at the last minute. I'm sorry it puts you on the bottom of the tribe, but my voting with you wouldn't have saved Mari and would have put me on the outs, too."

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Thank you.  Every season we get the "these are the cool kids" and "these are the people who desperately want to fit in with the cool kids," analogies and as someone who did my time in high school reading Gothic romances behind the text books and didn't really start to live until a few years after graduation, I find it very hard to imagine anyone still caring.  I didn't care when it was happening.  Hannah probably has a nice group of interesting friends and no interest at all in partying with someone like  Figgy.

Completely agree. I also wish we could all break free from this idea that all high schools are like the ones in John Hughes films, and that the stereotypes in John Hughes films somehow map onto the way people interact with each other on Survivor. I'm the same age as Michelle (28), so it's been a solid decade since I graduated, but I've never been able to identify with the "jocks and cheerleaders vs. geeks" stereotype since my school's sports teams were notoriously bad (the football players were really happy to break a 10 year losing streak while I was there), and most of the people on them would have fulfilled a lot of the criteria for being stereotypical geeks as well. I'm starting to appreciate all the ways that the place I grew up was special (and a particularly good place for me to grow up), but I find it hard to believe that my experience of high school was all that unusual, especially for people who are close to me in age.

[Eolivet]

12 hours ago, Alapaki said:

"As a millennial, I grew up in front of a TV screen"

That was the second best quote of the night, but I don't think anyone has mentioned David's (?) "Generation X is used to working hard." Obviously...that's why it's called the slacker generation.

(And dearest Survivor interns, for the love of all that is good and holy -- it's "Gen X," as in "abbreviation for generation followed by X." Not "Gen-X" -- which I just hear as jenx)

It's funny how different the interpretations of Michelle's tribal council conversation with Hannah. I got a very "Oh my god, I love your vote/That is the most awful vote I've ever seen" vibe from Michelle. She did all but tell Hannah "On Wednesdays, we vote for Mari." And I definitely think there could be be many players and/or jury members who will be able to affirmatively answer the question "Raise your hand if you've ever been personally victimized by Michelle."

[Ms Blue Jay]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

So if they aim for diversity they're accused of token this and token that and a cast of characters, but if they left out the tokens and dorks and dweebs wouldn't they be left with that hated  sea of pretty white faces?  Year after year I've seen the first boot be an older white woman and I don't really find that any easier to watch than a young Asian woman.  This year the first boot was voted out for the very same reason as most of those older white women -- bossiness.

Typical excuse rhetoric for keeping the status quo.  Who accused the show of using non-whites as tokens?  I'm going to continue to complain about minorities, people like me, being represented on American television.

The male players are just as bossy as the female.  I never notice the women players being 'more bossy'.  I think people see that trait differently in different genders.  

I never felt like Mikaela was "confrontational" either, while I'm at it.  (I've seen that written a few times here.)  "Honest", sure.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[ForeverAlone]

If I was Hannah, I'd be wondering what the hell was up with Michelle with that vote, and I wouldn't exactly be feeling overjoyed about how it all went down. Yes, Hannah voted with the majority and that is good for her right now, but she shouldn't ignore the fact that Michelle never approached her about this plan until the middle of tribal council, and wanted her to vote for Mari without giving her a solid reason. That makes me wonder if it was one of two things. One, did Michelle just not care to rope Hannah into the vote beforehand, because she didn't need or particularly want her vote, but she got nervous during tribal council after Michaela's statements so she got Hannah as an insurance vote? Or two, did Michelle think Hannah would act all neurotic and paranoid if told about the vote in advance and tip Mari off enough for her to scramble? Either way, it's not a really good look (in my opinion) for Hannah's desirability as an alliance partner, so I am interested to see what happens to their relationship going forward. Probably nothing, but it would be fascinating to see if Hannah starts questioning her place with Michelle after this vote. 

Edited September 30, 2016 by ForeverAlone

[RedheadZombie]

8 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Yeah!  There was a scene with Zeke, I think Adam (if there's one person I want to see go ASAP, it is Adam), and Jay, where Zeke laid out the Figgy-then-Michaela plan.

But the info was twisted to manipulate. What they actually said was - we will vote out Figgy, which will hopefully bring Mikaela closer to us. If not, and if she continues to cause trouble, she will go next.  

That isn't verbatim, but the essence of what he said.  It was deliberately changed to manipulate and scare Mikaela into voting with them. And sadly it worked. 

[LanceM]

I am thinking the reason Michelle didn't tell Hannah about the lam prior to TC was because she knew that Hannah was very close to Mari as well and was afraid she might alert her. I do hope we get to see the follow up conversation between these two. I also have to take issue with this idea that Hannah was "easily manipulated" by Michelle. This wasn't some stranger telling her to trust her it was someone who Hannah had gotten close to the first 6 days. There was secret scene last week of the two of them talking with Hanbah expressing some concerns she had about her place in the tribe. Michelle then asks her to join her in a prayer which Hannah agrees to do. We then hear from Hannah how her and Michelle are polar opposites but that she likes her a lot. I also have to ask with this talk about how Hannah stands out from the rest of the tribe how does this not apply to Michelle? She is amillennial who is very religious, prays a lot and quotes scripture. She is quite different than the others but apparently isn't seen that way by viewers because she also happens to be a physically attractive woman.

[azshadowwalker]

On 9/28/2016 at 6:17 PM, mojoween said:

So two minorities went out one/two?  That's not a good look for either generation.

Well, two women went out first, too, and neither of those things are relevant. Are people supposed to vote based upon some racial demographics that a segment of the viewing audience deems important? Last time I looked, Survivor was about getting yourself to the end and winning a million dollars. Now, it seems that the very act of playing the game--protecting yourself by protecting your alliance, fighting to survive, trying to get to the end--is somehow racist. Weird and... ahem... Michaela.  I wonder if the insinuations would be made if the people who kept their alliance alive were more popular. 

[millennium]

I hoped Figgy (I feel like an idiot just typing it) would go home.   She is so insufferably full of herself.   But having seen this dynamic play out season after season I knew the plot wouldn't take and it was all but confirmed when Zeke approached Jay apparently without thinking, Hey, he's in Figgy's alliance, won't he warn her?

Mari was an okay consolation prize.   By the end of episode 1, I was already sick of her interpreting everything that happens through the prism of playing a video game, talking about it like video games have given her all the tools she needs to get through life.   She and all the Millennials remind me of the recent "Youtube Star" edition of The Amazing Race in which the contestants comported themselves as if they were on Youtube all the time: every reaction, every remark or observation was for the camera.   No sense of the real person, just the persona they play on the show in their heads.  

The Tribal Council was unbearable.   Someone upthread called it "the giggliest tribal ever."  It felt like "Survivor Jr."  Ironically, the youngest member, Will, came off as the most mature of the group.   Maybe it's his FM radio voice.

Probably the thing I dislike most about this season is all the confessional musing about what it means to be Millennial or Gen-X.   I know it's probably prompted by the producers, but it makes me want to yell "STFU and just be a person."

Will we ever again see a season of Survivor without a Boston accent or Boston apparel?  Are there no other cities in America?

And while I'm asking questions, is it axiomatic that whoever goes looking for an idol will find one?   Did anyone ever doubt the little worm who found the magic coconut would turn up an idol?