S02.E14: Wrath / S02.E15: North

[ikmccall]

6 hours ago, BookElitist said:

Y'all, I'm sorry, I have difficulty keeping focus on this program...[but] who (the bleep) was Oscar?

The bridegroom

[JackONeill]

I agree that the actor playing Chris probably got the offer for the other show and that's why it was written the way it was. I suspect that the contracts the actors sigh preclude the actors from just outright quitting the show. There's probably a time commitment. If the actor chooses to leave beforehand, TPTB can sue them...or they can work it out.

The actor playing Chris appears to the the youngest on the set, plus he seems to be a nice guy, so I suspect TBTB let him walk. BUT, they might be leaving the door open for his return (if the other show is cancelled) by leaving his "death" undocumented by the others.

I also found it odd - but typical for this show - that Colman Domingo had nothing to say about Season 3, while at the same time Kirkman is saying, "We have big things planned for Strand."

I think we're stuck in Mexico for the duration of the show. It's cheaper to film there.

Edited October 3, 2016 by JackONeill

[Iguessnot]

Is the mother of the bride still locked up? LOL

So much was made of the urgent drug drop, but I remember when Nick & Lucy were first supposed to deliver them, they stopped to play soccer with the kids. I don't recall what happened after that.

[CloudySky]

1 hour ago, candall said:

Did this really happen?  I didn't catch it at all--was Chris stumping along on his shattered thigh bone?

Yeah, when Nick left the Colonia (it was even a bit in slowmo as they crossed each other with Nick looking in the other direction) and I think again when the whole colonia left. It was definitely supposed to be a Chris tease but you could only see him from the back. He had the same clothes and hair and his bone was sticking out from his leg. It definitely looked like it was the actor. But that must mean Brandon lied about putting down Chris which makes no sense in the situation...

I have mixed feelings about the finale. The first hour was more exciting than the second. According to Mercedes Mason part of Ofelia's story was cut. It feels like she was barely even in this season. I thought that was gonna be Daniel who found her but it's someone else. Same people as Nick's military dudes? Or are they 2 groups at war?

When I actually felt disappointed that Nick didn't get shot dead, I realized how much they have ruined his character for me this season.  I'd rather he have died than Chris.

Chris dying off screen with us left wondering what really happened through Travis's imagining scenarios feels strange for a main character. It has a kind of realism for that world and it's ironic I suppose but still unsatisfying. Why does everyone think he was written off because he got another gig? Doesn't it make more sense that he was killed off and found another gig? I suspected he was gonna die when he appeared at San Diego Comic Con with short hair but had doubts because I figured they would hide the haircut more if he died. Then when he appeared on Talking Dead with the hat I knew for sure lol.

It's exciting that Alicia killed someone. Madison is the worst. Travis being a savage was oddly satisfying. I hate that Strand didn't go with them but I totally understand it. That Hector guy was annoying. Dude, chill. Did he really bond that much with the guys who kidnapped him in those two days? I thought Alicia's the one he was giving surfing lessons to...next thing he's pushing her into a wall.

If Nick, Lucy and Ofelia end up at the same military compound, that's gonna be awkward #nicrophelia

[candall]

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

think we're stuck in Mexico for the duration of the show. It's cheaper to film there

I like the Mexico setting.  I'm tired of Toronto.

[nodorothyparker]

If I want to watch people be assholes to each other over race and border issues, I certainly don't need to sit through a poorly scripted money grab show for it.  The only way this show works even a little bit is if we're supposed to see the Americans -- every last one of them, even the named characters with pretty hair -- as the bad guys.

I'm seriously at a loss after these two episodes as to what TPTB think the hook is to draw anyone back for a third season.  The lead couple is so unlikable together and have so much anti-chemistry that it's actually painful to watch.   After a full half season of seemingly not remembering on either side that their partner still existed, it's not even believable that Madison would so blithely throw away the work she and Alicia put in or the connections they made in establishing the hotel as a reasonably safe community to go rolling off into the night with no supplies or particular destination.  We know she doesn't really care all that much about Alicia as long as Nick Nick Nick might exist somewhere, but this choice requires Alicia to be stupid too and all for ... Travis?  He's just not that interesting a character even sans psycho son.  Nick isn't much better despite the show's straining all credulity to paint him as the most special manic pixie magical junkie white savior ever who only manages to fuck up everything he touches.

Strand is the only person on the entire show making any sense, realizing that he's better off taking his chances with the pissed off people at the hotel.  With Madison and the family wrecking crew gone, they've still got booze and ice and at least a chance of not leveling the whole thing.  I'd watch that show.

[Mr. Sparkle]

6 hours ago, natyxg said:

*I thought it was laughable that the big bad gang dudes were all taken down by the bunch of sloooowly walking walkers that approached them sloooowly, giving them plenty of time to scatter or hide. 

Classic TV-zombie plot hole. They were able to get through the open field of zombies with their guns, but when it came to zombies WALKING UP A NARROW SET OF STAIRS, they couldn't stand at the top and pick them off. The only question is why I'm still surprised when this happens. 

[bookrat]

This is why Madison and family can't have nice things...they tend to kill or injure anyone who comes in contact with them. Why didn't Travis just throw the two bro brothers out instead of killing them, I know he was supposed to be enrage...but what was up with the uninjured bro brother? I found it hard to believe he couldn't take Travis out. He just sort of stood there while his pal was getting beaten. But then, I couldn't believe the bros couldn't think of a better lie...like when Travis starting beating the hell out them scream, "he stole the car after we were hurt" or "bandits killed him after the car was wrecked", or "zombies bit him and he turned." Telling Travis that you killed his son after he broke his leg seemed really stupid...almost like the bro brothers were just too dumb to live. Funny they were able to survive until coming into contact with Madison and crew.

And word to all those who mentioned, why didn't Madison or one of the others just break the glass door? And who was Oscar? And loved how Travis smashed through the hotel gate making sure that zombies could get in and kill all the people living there. And of course, instead of trying to knock out the doctor, why not just kill him, because getting medical help is so easy now. Madison and crew are almost as bad as the zombies. When they are around someone is sure to get killed.

Edited October 3, 2016 by bookrat

[Straycat80]

11 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So, the Border Patrol is still on the lookout for illegals from Mexico.  Really ?

Don't they have bigger concerns ?

That was my thought too. I know Nick and co. Looked like infected because of all the blood and guts disguise but still, anyone on the other side of the border would be trying to survive and worry about themselves at this point. 

I also think any refugee camp would have been over run by now too. 

[JackONeill]

I think the writers write this stuff to be "impressive" in the season finale, knowing full-well there are loopholes, but they probably figure that they have until next season to figure out how to make sense of it all.

Don't forget-- the classic cliff-hanger of yore is the runaway wagon carrying the good-guy and his gal pal. The last scene shows them, and the wagon (and the horses, now that I think of it. ugh.) going off the cliff. You SEE IT GOING OFF the cliff. Then, next episode you see that the good guy and his gal pal had jumped out at the last possible minute. EVEN THOUGH, you didn't see it.

There's a lot of shit like that in TV. It's usually more subtle. Just not on FTWD.

[shrewd.buddha]

10 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm seriously at a loss after these two episodes as to what TPTB think the hook is to draw anyone back for a third season.  

This show is so poorly written. Did the showrunners of TWD need to create some busy work for an in-law or cousin that was in need of a job?  It is either that or this is their typical writing standard and they got incredibly lucky with the writers on the first show. 

For me, the worst offenses were:

• Killing an original cast member off in a flashback scene - narrated by an untrustworthy douche. 
• Expecting us to believe a group of people would live in a community where they will be fed to zombies while *alive* if they get sick or injured. 
• Making Alicia a killer - seemingly to make her more like Travis and Madison. 
•  No one can get to a man locked in a room where three walls are mostly made of glass. 
• The entire Costco Drug Cartel gang conveniently dies off camera in a very short amount of time -  but Alejandro is still alive to talk to Madison.
• Trying to portray Nick as some type of fascinating character that almost all the other characters can't help but fall under his spell of special-ness. 

This season finale was a real letdown. I have no desire to see Madison chase Nick through Mexico for another season. I don't even understand why the show is following Ofelia. And whatever slight interest I have in Strand isn't enough bring me back for more. 

[NorthstarATL]

48 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

If I want to watch people be assholes to each other over race and border issues, I certainly don't need to sit through a poorly scripted money grab show for it.  The only way this show works even a little bit is if we're supposed to see the Americans -- every last one of them, even the named characters with pretty hair -- as the bad guys.

 

I don't get what they're even going for there. I know it's early in the ZA for this show (even though the characters are up-to-speed on everything the Mothership folks seem to know somehow), but what difference do borders make when the Government is gone or race if society is gone? I mean, unless that's what they're going to touch upon. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Redcookie]

Not to Self: When caught in an apocalypse, don't hang out with parents....

[oakville]

9 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Chris Hardwick brought this up and basically laughed in Kirkman's face about it. But what was really funny was looking at the faces of Chris & Alycia during the exchange. They looked scared to death although Kirkman just laughed it off.

That's a very good point. This group creates chaos wherever they go. In season 1, they destroy a military base with a functioning hospital to save Ophelia's mom who was already dead.

In Season 2A, they destroy Strand's secure compound where there was security, food etc.

In Season 2B, they get kicked out of a nice hotel & break through the gates which could allow walkers to come in the front door.

They should stop wrecking the places they live in. Travis was dumb for killing the 2 Bros Amigos in the locked breakfast room. Why not wait till they were sleeping or have them exiled from the Hotel?

[Artsda]

Creating chaos where ever they go is very similar to Rick's dictating leadership on TWD.

[oakville]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

If I want to watch people be assholes to each other over race and border issues, I certainly don't need to sit through a poorly scripted money grab show for it.  The only way this show works even a little bit is if we're supposed to see the Americans -- every last one of them, even the named characters with pretty hair -- as the bad guys.

I'm seriously at a loss after these two episodes as to what TPTB think the hook is to draw anyone back for a third season.  The lead couple is so unlikable together and have so much anti-chemistry that it's actually painful to watch.   After a full half season of seemingly not remembering on either side that their partner still existed, it's not even believable that Madison would so blithely throw away the work she and Alicia put in or the connections they made in establishing the hotel as a reasonably safe community to go rolling off into the night with no supplies or particular destination.  We know she doesn't really care all that much about Alicia as long as Nick Nick Nick might exist somewhere, but this choice requires Alicia to be stupid too and all for ... Travis?  He's just not that interesting a character even sans psycho son.  Nick isn't much better despite the show's straining all credulity to paint him as the most special manic pixie magical junkie white savior ever who only manages to fuck up everything he touches.

Strand is the only person on the entire show making any sense, realizing that he's better off taking his chances with the pissed off people at the hotel.  With Madison and the family wrecking crew gone, they've still got booze and ice and at least a chance of not leveling the whole thing.  I'd watch that show.

I am surprised that Madison didn't feed Travis to the Walkers. She never really cared about Travis or Chris when they were away during the season.

[kj4ever]

Ok...The one thing that totally bothers me is how advanced these people are.  Anyone that has watched TWD knows that in season 2 

Spoiler

they basically lost Sophia because TWO walkers were chasing her.  TWO! 

 

Ophelia who always came off as a pure moron now can kill a couple of zombies and just saunter away from the rest of the group with absolutely no fear.  A whole freaking town with little kids can walk through a horde of zombies unscathed.  I'm sorry but probably the most unrealistic thing on this show is that a bunch of people from LA would do better than people in Georgia during an apocalypse.

Edited October 3, 2016 by kj4ever

[RustbeltWriter]

I think the group that kidnapped Ofelia and shot at Nick's group are Last Man on Earth type preppers. They're probably feeling vindicated by the ZA and having a good ol' time.

[nodorothyparker]

28 minutes ago, oakville said:

That's a very good point. This group creates chaos wherever they go. In season 1, they destroy a military base with a functioning hospital to save Ophelia's mom who was already dead.

In Season 2A, they destroy Strand's secure compound where there was security, food etc.

In Season 2B, they get kicked out of a nice hotel & break through the gates which could allow walkers to come in the front door.

They should stop wrecking the places they live in. Travis was dumb for killing the 2 Bros Amigos in the locked breakfast room. Why not wait till they were sleeping or have them exiled from the Hotel?

The season 1 mayhem was every bit as much about rescuing magical junkie Nick, with a secondary purpose of getting back Chris's mom, who hopped on the military trucks without so much as a "Hey guys, I'm going with these armed strangers who just forcibly kidnapped one of our own.  I'm sure it will be fine."  I would seriously bet money that if you had mentioned looking for Griselda to Madison or even anyone in the group who wasn't Daniel or Ofelia, you wouldn't have gotten more than a blank stare and "Who?  Oh sure, her too."

This entire series really has been about Madison losing and hunting her junkie kid over and over again while he doesn't seem to give much of a shit.

Edited October 3, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Ocean Chick]

I just can't with this show anymore.  How does this group of morons keep separating, only to end up in the same place?  Is Mexico really that small?  Even if they're all heading north, it seems far fetched that they'd all end up at the same hotel.  And Travis, on foot, ended up at the hotel before the Bromigos who were in a truck that had evidently traveled for over a day (the Bromigos were tired from doing all the driving, and I know I can drive a good 12 hours before I need to stop, and I'm waaaaaaaaaay older than they were).  And yet they ended up at the VERY SAME hotel that Travis and Maddy's gang were at?  And Travis recognized them from 12 stories up?  It looked like at least that many stairs in that one shot anyways.  I mean, I find it hard to believe that Travis ended up in the same exact spot that Maddy did, given the mountainous terrain in that area.  You could be one mountain over and never know there was anything on the other side of it.  I'm sure Nick will also end up in the same place Ofelia is at.  Of course.  And Travis and gang will meet up with them again, no problem.

And yes with the why couldn't Maddy break the darn glass in the door and stick her arm through it and open the darn door, instead of chiding Travis gently from the other side?  I know we were supposed to despise the Bromigos and their racist attitudes, but when it comes to Travis and Maddy, I was kinda hoping the dudes would take the parents out.  Then Strand could adopt Alicia and I'd feel a lot better about this show.

And what was with Ofelia being about to out-walk a bunch of walkers?  Wouldn't she have to stop and rest once in a while, while they didn't?  Shouldn't they have caught up to her eventually?  Wasn't that how Andrea nearly got eaten after the farm, because she got tired while the walkers didn't?  I mean, it made a good visual, what with her casually sauntering away and all.  And how did she not hear the one who got her and nearly bit her?  I certainly heard his snarling.  Is she deaf?  Or just stupid?

[sugarbaker design]

5 hours ago, candall said:

7 hours ago, CloudySky said:

I got a kick out of seeing walker Chris and Nick crossing paths (twice).

Did this really happen?  I didn't catch it at all--was Chris stumping along on his shattered thigh bone?

No, Chris got shot in the head by the bromigos.

[oakville]

7 minutes ago, RustbeltWriter said:

I think the group that kidnapped Ofelia and shot at Nick's group are Last Man on Earth type preppers. They're probably feeling vindicated by the ZA and having a good ol' time.

I find it strange that Ophelia didn't drive right up to the border crossing in Tijuana. Her car was driving along a road near the border fence. She crossed it by foot in an open fence. In the previous episode, she was on a road near a border sign. It would have made more sense to have her leave her car where the cars were clogged up. She could have tried to cross the border & get captured by the Border patrol military types.

[sugarbaker design]

3 minutes ago, oakville said:

I find it strange that Ophelia didn't drive right up to the border crossing in Tijuana.

She didn't have a choice, right?  The car petered out.

[oakville]

8 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

The season 1 mayhem was every bit as much about rescuing magical junkie Nick, with a secondary purpose of getting back Chris's mom, who hopped on the military trucks without so much as a "Hey guys, I'm going with these armed strangers who just forcibly kidnapped one of our own.  I'm sure it will be fine."  I would seriously bet money that if you had mentioned looking for Griselda to Madison or even anyone in the group who wasn't Daniel or Ofelia, you wouldn't have gotten more than a blank stare and "Who?  Oh sure, her too."

This entire series really has been about Madison losing and hunting her junkie kid over and over again while he doesn't seem to give much of a shit.

That's a good point! Rescuing Nick is a theme of this show. It's kind of silly, because Nick could care less about his family.

 

I also noticed that it was remarkable that Nick led his group through downtown Tijuana & no walkers appeared anywhere.

[nodorothyparker]

I've said it before.  The walkers on this mostly Mexican show are some the laziest most lackadaisical walkers I've ever seen.  If I didn't know how shoddily and half-assed this entire show is done, I'd feel like they were maybe playing to a nasty stereotype.

[MrPissyPuppy]

WTF did the Costco Gang even want the crappy little Colonia anyway?  Exploit the people there, yeah, but live there?   Surely there are better/nicer places including Riptide Hotel?  

[Giselle]

I believe we did not see Zombie Chris we saw another zombie with a twisted up left leg. I have Tivo and rewatched.  In the accident clips Chris was wearing a grey t shirt, light brown pants and black tennis shoes with brown soles, also his thick hair curls up on the ends. The walker Nick ran into had thinner "straight at the ends" black hair and was wearing a crème or once white polo shirt with a notched at the sides hem , black pants and newish black Van's with white soles.

Unless Zombie Chris changed clothes, found better tennis shoes and had another zombie to help him dress or "Wardrobe and Continuity" fucked up... it wasn't Chris. As to whether he is dead or not is speculation.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Giselle

[natyxg]

25 minutes ago, RustbeltWriter said:

I think the group that kidnapped Ofelia and shot at Nick's group are Last Man on Earth type preppers. They're probably feeling vindicated by the ZA and having a good ol' time.

I'm more inclined to believe that they're racist dudes who hate mexicans and blame them for the infection and think it's their duty to protect the border, or something heavy handed and obvious like that. I thought it was no coincidence that the one who caught Ophelia talked to her in Spanish and said welcome to America (I think it was) with an evil smirk.

[JackONeill]

1 minute ago, natyxg said:

I'm more inclined to believe that they're racist dudes who hate mexicans and blame them for the infection and think it's their duty to protect the border, or something heavy handed and obvious like that. I thought it was no coincidence that the one who caught Ophelia talked to her in Spanish and said welcome to America (I think it was) with an evil smirk.

Can you picture Ophelia trying to explain what happened to her?

"I was with my family in the barber shop. Then this man and his son came storming in. We all ran. Together. Then we hooked up with more people, including this tall drink of water who had a boat. So, we went sailing for a few days. Then we land somewhere in Mexico, after we outran the Mexican border patrol. We stayed at a nice place for a little while, then the shit hit the fan. (I've got to say -- with these people, that happens a lot. But they're gringos, what can I say? The leader seems to be the blonde. Does Botox screw up your thinking?)

Then we make our way to a hotel that has ice. Dude...ICE.

But then, and for no real reason, I decide to run off. Yeah, I know it's been a few years, but I all of a sudden remembered I have a fiance. So, even though I'm hundreds of miles away and there's a bunch of formidable desert in my way, as well as these slow-moving nitwits who are always snarling, I pick up and leave, despite it being the end of the world and all. And--get this--I don't tell anyone. Talk about ninja!

Then, you capture me, and here I am back in the states, which, now that I look around, looks an awful lot like the place I left. But that's my story. Now, sooner or later, those people will find their way here, and there will be no real reason, but that's how they operate--with no real reason-- and when they get here, say 'Adios to the life you love because these people can screw up a wet dream.'"

[oakville]

17 minutes ago, MrPissyPuppy said:

WTF did the Costco Gang even want the crappy little Colonia anyway?  Exploit the people there, yeah, but live there?   Surely there are better/nicer places including Riptide Hotel?  

Didn't they want all the drugs that Nick was making?

[English Teacher]

I really tried with this show.  I did.  I was in the minority of liking the slow build up and I even tried to ignore the lack of affect by our heroine Madison during most of her scenes.  But SERIOUSLY?

Alejandro was right that he saw an angel when he saw Madison -- an angel of destruction and doom.  With TWD, I always got frustrated when they found a place, could get comfortable, and an outside entity (villain, newcomer) destroyed it.  THIS group is the poster child for "This is why we can't have anything nice".  Their actions are impulsive, selfish, and destructive.  Strand would have been reunited with the love of his life living on a hacienda if not for them; that survival family would be intact; and they cannot even leave the hotel intact -- take out the main gates so now anybody and anything can come walking in.   Nick had to have a candybar and not tell Luc why so he attracted the attention of the Narcos.  

The demise of the Colonia? As others have posted, the walkers are slow ambling and the thugs had HEAVY artillery.  How exactly did that happen?

And Nick - Mr. Anti-establishment-whose-middle-name-is-Cynical-of-all-things... by all means go towards the helicopters.  That worked out so well for you last time.

Poor Ofelia was an afterthought and so cliche - car breaks down in a seemingly quiet area, walkers suddenly pop up like bungee zombies in Plants vs Zombies, and she then gets captured by Mr. Creepy.  All for a fiance that I'm pretty sure didn't exist until 2 episodes ago.

Did not like the storytelling of Chris's demise through unreliable narrated flashbacks and the imagination of Travis.  It's great that it's ambiguous to him, but everyone watching knew that Travis would go postal if something happened to Chris.  They were on the road for what, a hot minute and Chris is killed?  

Nice words of comfort there, Madison, to your daughter - "You'll be fine."  Like always. You've really grown as a parent there, Mads.  But she gave Travis a pep talk after his arrival on the dark side.  Then let's go hunt down Nick.  I was surprised that the Narcos didn't say to the gringo that a crazy sometimes-red-headed gringa  was asking about him. I thought that would have influenced Nick's decision (to run farther away).  

Last week my wish was that Madison would die and Strand would feel compelled to watch after Alicia.  At least then they would have had a chance.

And, like the first season, lets save ALL the walkers & gross effects for the finale.

And finally to the TPTB:  PLEASE be consistent.  How can two swipes of zombie goo work on this show but you need to practically be wearing walker skin on the mother ship to get past the creatures?

OK...rant over.  Thank you for letting me have my say.

Oh - My compliments to all of you over in the pre-speculation thread.  I wish there was a chance to watch the episode a-la Mystery Science Theater with all the snark going on simultaneously on screen.  

[BananaRama]

9 hours ago, xaxat said:

Why the hell did Nick think they would be welcomed with open arms?

Don't forget - according to Madison - Nick is charming and can light up a room.

[JackONeill]

2 minutes ago, BananaRama said:

Don't forget - according to Madison - Nick is charming and can light up a room.

On the other hand, didn't Madison also say that Nick always heads towards death?

[xaxat]

She speaks from experience. 

[madam magpie]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If Alicia doesn't understand now that she will always play second fiddle to her brother, she never will.

I think she understands, but she's only 17. She still wants and hopes her mother will turn it around, and she's not yet emotionally strong enough to walk away. Plus, it's the zombie apocalypse and she's scared. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

No, Chris got shot in the head by the bromigos.

Sure but.... after going thru the "Glen dies oh maybe not" idiocy, I can't help but note how Chris's death is almost as clear cut and yet as ambiguous.

The bromigos were pretty much lying about everything. And they're pretty stupid as evinced by their open racism in the garage.  They're also machismo driven jerks and for two guys who were asleep in the creek bed, they're remarkably uninjured.

Chris basically stole the truck and the gun and dislocated the one's guy's shoulder because Chris is crazy and amoral and screwing over the two jerks is all a part of his own personal descent into becoming a despot.

The two bromigoes, being "men" are embarrassed to admit they got robbed by the kid, so they tell Travis he's dead. Also being amoral jerks, it probably amuses them to tell Travis this. And Travis teaches them why being amoral jerks never works out unless you're Chris.

In Season five, Chris returns with slave girls, and his own gladiator circle for daily entertainment.

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder to take discussion of what happened on Talking Dead over to that topic - it doesn't belong in the episode topic .

Thanks!

[islandgal140]

15 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So, the Border Patrol is still on the lookout for illegals from Mexico.  Really ?

Don't they have bigger concerns ?

Keeping America Great!

[Primetimer]

So much action takes place in the season finale, you might think they were holding back all year.

View the full article

[Iguessnot]

2 hours ago, oakville said:

Didn't they want all the drugs that Nick was making?

Nah, Costco dude said he and a drug making kingpin came to an agreement, so he had all the drugs he needed. That's why he told Nick he didn't need his stash anymore.

[SnarkyTart]

Inarguably, the three best, most accomplished actors to be cast in this hackneyed show:

Ruben Blades

Colman Domingo

Paul Calderon

Gone; maybe dead, most sincerely dead, or just left behind, doesn't matter.  There's no one left with any compelling ability to inhabit a character and make me believe them.  Boring, pointless, insulting.  I think I'm done.

[Omar G.]

Inarguably, the three best, most accomplished actors to be cast in this hackneyed show:

Ruben Blades

Colman Domingo

Paul Calderon

Gone; maybe dead, most sincerely dead, or just left behind, doesn't matter.  There's no one left with any compelling ability to inhabit a character and make me believe them.  Boring, pointless, insulting.  I think I'm done.

I would add Marlene Forte (Celia) to that list, too, she was fantastic.

[ChipBach]

16 hours ago, Christi said:

Um...when they were trying to open the door so Travi didnt go all ape shit on those cornpones....they were knocking on the door??!!

WTF!! It was a GLAAAASS PAAANEL DOOOOR

Then they ran to find keys? OMGOMGOMG lolol idiots

So glad this joke is over....wow

Do you know how much replacement glass costs in a Zombie apocalypse???  No???  Well...  I bet it's a lot... 

[ChipBach]

5 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

This show is so poorly written. Did the showrunners of TWD need to create some busy work for an in-law or cousin that was in need of a job?  It is either that or this is their typical writing standard and they got incredibly lucky with the writers on the first show. 

For me, the worst offenses were:

• Killing an original cast member off in a flashback scene - narrated by an untrustworthy douche. 
• Expecting us to believe a group of people would live in a community where they will be fed to zombies while *alive* if they get sick or injured. 
• Making Alicia a killer - seemingly to make her more like Travis and Madison. 
•  No one can get to a man locked in a room where three walls are mostly made of glass. 
• The entire Costco Drug Cartel gang conveniently dies off camera in a very short amount of time -  but Alejandro is still alive to talk to Madison.
• Trying to portray Nick as some type of fascinating character that almost all the other characters can't help but fall under his spell of special-ness. 

This season finale was a real letdown. I have no desire to see Madison chase Nick through Mexico for another season. I don't even understand why the show is following Ofelia. And whatever slight interest I have in Strand isn't enough bring me back for more. 

I would add the little dap-will-do-ya of blood that repels walkers instantly.  No guts, no goo, just a spritz of old blood and you've totally defeated the zombie angle of the show.  Why people aren't dabbing a bit 'o blood on them when they wake up is curious.  The walkers would only see other walkers and just leave.   The need for tons of guts dangled around you would make the process too unwieldy to do too often which is why Grimes, et al., do not use it as a "go to" move...  I'm hoping Negan has enough swings for this entire cast...

[AnnaMayWong]

6 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

The season 1 mayhem was every bit as much about rescuing magical junkie Nick, with a secondary purpose of getting back Chris's mom, who hopped on the military trucks without so much as a "Hey guys, I'm going with these armed strangers who just forcibly kidnapped one of our own.  I'm sure it will be fine."  I would seriously bet money that if you had mentioned looking for Griselda to Madison or even anyone in the group who wasn't Daniel or Ofelia, you wouldn't have gotten more than a blank stare and "Who?  Oh sure, her too."

This entire series really has been about Madison losing and hunting her junkie kid over and over again while he doesn't seem to give much of a shit.

Too true !

[TattleTeeny]

Late to this party because, ugh, work--how dare they keep me busy! Anyway, Travis's big fight scene reminded me of Jonathan Winters demolishing that gas station in It's a Mad, Mad, Mad Mad World.

[FishyJoe]

I'm glad finally someone had the balls to really do something. 

And I'm sure that they were desperately trying to find the keys to stop Travis, because that room with the GLASS WINDOWS AND DOOR was sooooo strong.

[Amelie06]

These people are human dumpster fires. Travis gets to live even though he took murderous revenge, but the med student has to die for attempting the same? What bs! Alicia didn't even seem to like Travis that much. I agree that the presentation of Chris's death was odd. It felt like an afterthought.

I just don"t care about these characters. Except for Strand. Who this family will eventually kill.

[Nashville]

13 hours ago, MrPissyPuppy said:

WTF did the Costco Gang even want the crappy little Colonia anyway?  Exploit the people there, yeah, but live there?   Surely there are better/nicer places including Riptide Hotel?  

Defensibility. The Colonia was apparently perched on top of a hill with one land-based access route - the one they kept jam-packed with undead cousins. 

 

13 hours ago, English Teacher said:

The demise of the Colonia? As others have posted, the walkers are slow ambling and the thugs had HEAVY artillery.  How exactly did that happen?

Sheer numbers - more below.

 

15 hours ago, Superclam said:

Classic TV-zombie plot hole. They were able to get through the open field of zombies with their guns, but when it came to zombies WALKING UP A NARROW SET OF STAIRS, they couldn't stand at the top and pick them off. The only question is why I'm still surprised when this happens. 

Actually not a plot hole - just two different situations.

When entering the Colonia:

1. There was a heavy concentration of zombies in the Colonia's "moat" area, but they were dispersed pretty evenly throughout the space.
2. For their initial breach of the Colonia defenses, the Narcos made a short dash from one moat-protected area (the wall access) across the moat to another moat-protected area (the bus "portal") - so during that dash they were only encountering a tiny fraction of the total number of moat moaners.

After the Narcos entered the Colonia, however, their situation changed dramatically:

1. Once Alejandro moved the bus, the same geographical factors which made the Colonia so attractive defensively to the Narcos now conspire to work against them.  The one land-based access route which looked so easy to defend?  Now it's the single point of escape for the Narcos, and it is flooded with (formerly defensive) zombies.
2. The Narcos definitely had more than sufficient firepower and ammunition for their initial defensive breach, when (a) zombies were dispersed pretty evenly throughout the no-mans-land of the "moat" and (b) the Narcos had only to deal with a small fraction of the whole - but now? 
3. That narrow set of stairs is both the zombie's only way in AND the Narcos' only way out - and instead of being dispersed as before, the zombies are now concentrated through a single concentrated channel.  Which mans you don't get to skip around some like you did on the way in, you now have to kill every blessed one of them - and, IIRC, there are well over a thousand zombies in the moat.
4. So - reckon these Narco assholes walked in with over a 1000 rounds of ammunition in their pockets?  :)

They had a lot of automatic weapons - but ammo conservation wasn't necessarily their strong suit, and I didn't see anybody humping in any ammo cans with them into the Colonia.  :)  Even if the Narcos did bring that much, I expect a bunch of it is still sitting back in their vehicles.

[English Teacher]

Nashville, I love your thoughtful analysis!  It makes perfect sense. My only remaining question is,if there were a thousand,or even a hundred, walkers milling around by the bus,how did that fence not get knocked over before. I think of the fences in TWD for the prison and Alexandria which were so much sturdier.  And, again, if that was the only entry point, how did those noisy shopping carts not get them killed when they brought their supplies.  No way zombie goo will override that sound and no way did they calmly walk back and forth to carry the water bottles through the moat without them.  

I think the viewers just think too much ?