S02.E13: Date of Death

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Madison struggles to cope as a large number of refugees flood into the hotel, including someone familiar but unexpected.

[TimetoShine]

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

[raven]

Quote

Oh god, even when she's telling her daughter this awful truth abour her father, Madison still makes it all about Nick.

Yeah, I know she was making baby steps and trying to apologize but then it's all about Nick's smile lighting up the room and his bad mood hiding the sun or whatever.  Jeez.

[Straycat80]

The best thing about this episode was no Nick.

[tiredofwork]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz-zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Why oh why do the directors of this series think we want to see up close the one and only look the actress that plays Madison has which is the open mouth, something smells face??????

[minamurray78]

Madison: WORST TIMING EVER.

Alicia, go hang with Strand.

[candall]

Thanks, Saoirse!

[oakville]

6 minutes ago, TimetoShine said:

Well, there goes the neighborhood.

They should have showed a scene of the group letting everyone into the hotel. The new arrivals may plot against the group. It's weird that Elena didn't know anyone in the group of arrivals. Some locals must have survived.

Madison had no need to tell Alicia about her dad's suicide. Why make Alicia unhappy?

[candall]

Okay, I'm voting with my feet on a Talking Dead so desperate they've recruited a Property Brother in a Mr. Roger's sweater, but "Travis-ty" was a good note to leave on.

[JackONeill]

Okay, so now we know about the father/husband and I have no idea what to think of it. Could it be he killed himself because his oldest son was a loser and his wife an enabler?

[NorthstarATL]

I thought maybe Madison would admit to killing her husband to be with Travis, which would at least make it a worthwhile reveal, but, yeah, way to ruin Alicia's day there, MOM! I also figured that maybe Madison realized that having Travis back would be nothing but whining from here on in.

  The end with the Bros showing up was a nice surprise. I think we're supposed to assume that Travis was right, and they turned on Chris, but I wonder whether he just abandoned them and took the truck. Chris has the makings of any of the minor despots we've run  into in the ZA elsewhere, and seeing his dark rise is at least as interesting as any other character's arc thus far.

  Was Strand sleeping in? Tending bar? I missed him this ep. Did NOT miss Nick. He does NOT light up a room with his smile. That is your daughter who does that, Madison!

[oakville]

There is some logic to the Bros deciding to kill their friend. If they stayed with him & he died overnight, he could kill them. Didn't someone else from their group get bitten?

[Ohwell]

17 minutes ago, tiredofwork said:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz-zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Why oh why do the directors of this series think we want to see up close the one and only look the actress that plays Madison has which is the open mouth, something smells face??????

I swear, I was thinking the exact thing all through the episode!  

[NorthstarATL]

3 minutes ago, oakville said:

There is some logic to the Bros deciding to kill their friend. If they stayed with him & he died overnight, he could kill them. Didn't someone else from their group get bitten?

That is why you don't sleep with anyone in the ZA! Anything can happen!

[raven]

4 minutes ago, oakville said:

If they stayed with him & he died overnight, he could kill them.

You can lock him in a separate room (or the barn, where he was).  Or leave him on his own.  There was really no need to shoot him.

[JackONeill]

1 minute ago, NorthstarATL said:

That is why you don't sleep with anyone in the ZA! Anything can happen!

I had a few dates like that.

[Ohwell]

I was hoping Travis would take a flying leap off the balcony like those zombies did.

[raven]

Quote

I had a few dates like that.

Ah, but did you have to shoot them?  Or just shoot them anyway, just in case?  /sorry not sorry.

[thuganomics85]

Madison's stupid plan actually worked, but now they've got waves and waves of people wanting to get in, and I doubt they have the supplies to make this work.  But since Travis is here, I'm sure Maddie won't give a shit.  Seeing Maddie and Travis together again really shows the difference between the acting on this show.  Neither one of those characters really work for me at all, but Cliff Curtis can at least bring something to his performance, that makes Travis... I don't know, at least human?  But Kim Dickens is still making Maddie almost come off robotic.  It looked like Maddie couldn't comprehend why Travis was upset, and I would think finding out your child is a psycho killer in the making, would do a number on any parent.  Then again, Maddie could probably find out Nick slaughtered an entire orphanage, and she'd still probably think he's the sunshine in her life or whatever.

Oh, at least she half-heartedly tells Alicia that she has been a crap parent to her, but she makes it all about Nick.  Just go hang with Strand, Alicia. He respects you, at least.

I so hope Chris ends up being the next big bad.  Maybe they'll just rip of the Mothership and have him come back with both The Governor's eye-patch and Negan's bat/Lucille.  It's not like this show's strength is originality.

Biggest surprise of the hour was actually the Talking Dead clip and seeing that Elizabeth Rodriguez is going to be appearing.  Come on, Elizabeth! Don't come crawling back to this thing!

Two hour finale next week.  Maybe we'll get an appearance from a walker or two!

Edited September 26, 2016 by thuganomics85

[oakville]

39 minutes ago, raven said:

You can lock him in a separate room (or the barn, where he was).  Or leave him on his own.  There was really no need to shoot him.

Is it worse to let him die of starvation if you abandon him or shoot him? If it was me, I would have stayed with James until he recovered. Why didn't they put him in the house? It was better than a barn.

[oakville]

10 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Madison's stupid plan actually worked, but now they've got waves and waves of people wanting to get in, and I doubt they have the supplies to make this work.  But since Travis is here, I'm sure Maddie won't give a shit.  Seeing Maddie and Travis together again really shows the difference between the acting on this show.  Neither one of those characters really work for me at all, but Cliff Curtis can at least bring something to his performance, that makes Travis... I don't know, at least human?  But Kim Dickens is still making Maddie almost come off robotic.  It looked like Maddie couldn't comprehend why Travis was upset, and I would think finding out your child is a psycho killer in the making, would do a number on any parent.  Then again, Maddie could probably find out Nick slaughtered an entire orphanage, and she'd still probably think he's the sunshine in her life or whatever.

Oh, at least she half-heartedly tells Alicia that she has been a crap parent to her, but she makes it all about Nick.  Just go hang with Strand, Alicia. He respects you, at least.

I so hope Chris ends up being the next big bad.  Maybe they'll just rip of the Mothership and have him come back with both The Governor's eye-patch and Negan's bat/Lucille.  It's not this show's strength is originality.

Biggest surprise of the hour was actually the Talking Dead clip and seeing that Elizabeth Rodriguez is going to be appearing.  Come on, Elizabeth! Don't come crawling back to this thing!

Two hour finale next week.  Maybe we'll get an appearance from a walker or two!

Madison's plan could backfire. They don't have enough weapons to keep the 43 arrivals in check. Where did these people show up from all at once? Was that Madison's fault for turning on the lights to the hotel? Why not have a scene where the arrivals explain that they saw the lights & decided this was a safe place. This show wastes a lot of time on disfunctional relationships.

[riverheightsnancy]

Not a single walker this episode. That doesn't even seem possible. 

[AngryCarrot86]

My favorite highlights: 

"We should have been eating egggggs".  Because... Being a whiny assed, middle aged school teacher around murderous teens is going to go over well in the ZA.  I mean, of course Travis was right, but as a high school educator, he should have known that explaining the "why" behind that would have been beneficial to those stupid boys. 

"Sorry, not sorry".  Clearly, the writers are hipster millennials. That was not a "cool" phrase in 2010.  Ugh. 

Maddie and all of the poor choices.  Ever.  Like, all of them.  Way to attract every survivor in town.  Way to ruin Alicia's day.  What exactly was Maddie's point with telling her that?  Way to try and get fresh with Travis while he's telling you about how he had to leave Chris.  I did laugh when he ducked her advances. 

LOL at Travis getting through that gate without a stampede.  Yeah right.  And where were the zombies???  The Mexican zombies are accustomed to the living walking around in guts, they should have been all over that clean mob!  

I'm going to keep watching, and I'm going to keep bitching.  This damned show.  

Edited September 26, 2016 by AngryCarrot86

[catrox14]

This show is so terrible. Chris is the literal worst.

[bookrat]

I don't get why the teens killed their friend. Why not just leave him with Travis and take off? You know, ditch them. And why aren't the mobs climbing over the hotel fence? It  looked like they could knock it down. I wish dad would just stuf up about Travis. You know the  show is bad when you keep hoping zombies will eat the main characters.

I wonder whatever happened to Maddy'so student who was going to try to survive the zombies by hiding out in his family's basement. He was the kid who seemed to know what was happening before anyone else. I think his story might be more interesting that what's going on now. Is Madison the worst mother or what?

Edited September 26, 2016 by bookrat

[natyxg]

I hope Chris dies.

Over and over I've read people talk about how dead-eyed and expressionless and bad the actress who plays Maddie is, and I usually thought "she's not THAT bad." Well, today I agree with you. She was pretty terrible all throughout.

As I was watching Chris and Travis I kept wondering if Chris has no facial hair or if he bothers to shave and Travis doesn't. Please, Travis, shave.

[TDT]

So did they take the time to check any of those refugees for bite marks..?

Maybe thats why there going to be a two-hour finale..First hour will deal with the group having to kill some of the refugees who turned off-screen,then the second hour will be about the imminent invasion of Colonia(spearheaded by a slowly turning Alejandro)

Edited September 26, 2016 by TDT

[natyxg]

They were checking them, both the med student and Alicia.

[Artsda]

Why couldn't the frat boys and Chris just leave James behind with Travis? Why did they need to kill James, instead of just driving off and leaving them. That made no sense.

There goes the hotel with letting the others in. Stupid turning on the light idea Madison, all for Nick who doesn't even want to be there!

[Seawolff]

It will be interesting to see the interaction between Travis and those guys when they show up.

Speculation:

1. They will want Travis to cover for them while they turn over a new leaf. 

or

2. They'll be pissed at Travis because Chris either stole the truck or did some fool thing that caused them and the truck to be over run. Travis will want to off them but can't because they are the last link to his son.

or

3. After seeing the hotel light they decide to hide the truck and see what they can find out about the hotel and its resources. They leave Chris behind so they have an outside guy for their two pronged assault. Chris will either show up and accidently kill someone important or show up with that intent, but seeing his loved ones has an epiphany, grows up and helps them escape after the doofus brothers cause mayhem. 

Or 

4. Chris steals the truck and gets hisself up to Tijuana. While taking a leak on the side of the road, Nick and Luciana who are escaping big problems in colonia spot an unattended truck and steal it. Chris stands alone in the desert looking into the distance. Somewhere, Ofelia is also driving a stolen truck.

[Iguessnot]

Okay the amigos were supposed to be eating chicken, but did anyone else see those huge brontosaurus bones on the grill?

I understand they have limited supplies, but denying shelter to a few refugees when you have a mega room hotel is never a good look. Anyway we aren't going to think about how this one gate stops access to this huge property that is also on the beach.

Travis needs to toss himself off the balcony. The was one whiny self indulgent speech. Your son who doesn't believe in good or bad anymore willingly hopped in the truck.  All that psycho babble does not equate to "I left him". That line about going along with the killing of James in order to do right by his son was utter stupidity. I don't know how to explain it, but this show keeps doing these so called emotional expositions but it is always hollow. I know what they are trying to get at but it comes off amateurish and insulting.

Stoneface decides to tell Alicia her father committed suicide but says the contents of the note were unimportant. Did she really think she wouldn't have to discuss the note? But in the end I just didn't care about the story. Couldn't feel the emotional effect of that knowledge

[MVFrostsMyPie]

3 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Not a single walker this episode. That doesn't even seem possible. 

There were 2 or 3 on the beach while Madison was telling Alicia indirectly that Nick is still her favorite kid.

2 hours ago, AngryCarrot86 said:

 "Sorry, not sorry".  Clearly, the writers are hipster millennials. That was not a "cool" phrase in 2010.  Ugh. 

Well, Chris isn't exactly a cool dude. 

[AnnaMayWong]

Geez!  I'm already tired of these frackin' dumb-@§§ characters!  

[LocimusPrime]

These directors and writers really suck bad. 

• The characters are terrible. The only kinda cool character is Strand. He should be the leader hands down 
• Ok somehow, this group needs to gather some firearms. Go visit strands old place and see if there are still weapons there, barter with the grocery store cartel guys or on house to house searches. This is getting ridiculous. 
• Chris is a terrible person with an evil face/ smile. I want to choke him 
• what was/ is the colonias plan for when they ran out of water or things to barter for water. Wouldn't it be wiser to set up a colony near some resources. 
• Ricks group would have taken over the hotel, supermarket, and colony by now. Lol

[Gobi]

Two best lines of the night:

"Everywhere we go it's the same thing, just different people." That pretty much sums it up.

"He was a man of  few words." Mads describing  the suicide note. I actually LOL when she said that.

[qtpye]

9 hours ago, raven said:

Yeah, I know she was making baby steps and trying to apologize but then it's all about Nick's smile lighting up the room and his bad mood hiding the sun or whatever.  Jeez.

Nick is the Mary Tyler Moore of the ZA, he can turn the whole world on with his smile....he's going to make it after all.

Now I would like to see a credit opening of NIck doing a twirl and throwing a jaunty hat up the air.

[ghoulina]

This episode wasn't horrible, but I literally predicted everything that happened in it. 

If I were those people outside the gate, I'd be breaking shit down. "Oh, THAT guy can come in, but we can't? Fuck you". Sorry, Madison, you made your bed by stupidly flipping that light on. Their reunion was as stale as the old croutons in my pantry, and I didn't give one fuck.

Chris is creepy as hell, and I did feel for Travis during their goodbye. Cliff Curtis sold it. The Douchebros, however, are not selling it. I'm not buying them as these ruthless asshole. Chris will get this dead, sociopath look in his eyes, but those two look like they're just sitting around waiting for the game to start. 

You know this show is bad when they have to bring an already dead character from last season on TTD. 

 

22 hours ago, oakville said:

 

There is some logic to the Bros deciding to kill their friend. If they stayed with him & he died overnight, he could kill them. Didn't someone else from their group get bitten?

 

But there was just as good a chance that he would fully recover, IMO.  They could take turns standing guard. But I think those dudes just have wanderlust. They didn't want to stay on that perfect little farm because it was "boring". 

[diebartdie]

9 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Not a single walker this episode. That doesn't even seem possible. 

Several times in the background during Maddi and Alicia's talk, you could see blurry, out of focus people I think we were supposed to assume were walkers (I think they were just regular people enjoying vacation time. TPTB had to film at that hotel while it was still open for business).

[shrewd.buddha]

Is this show trying to make some statement about parental guilt because two people have selfish, misguided teenage sons?
I can understand Travis' feelings that maybe if he had been around more he could have helped shape Chris' personality -- but at some point children start making their own decisions and every good intention a parent may have can be twisted into a negative by an ungrateful child. 

To me, Chris appears to be not so bright - a scared kid who reads every situation the wrong way and is only brave when he has a gun in his hand. I suppose I should applaud him for making his character so unlikable that I'm rooting for his end.

Is there supposed to be some irony that Madison and Travis were high school teachers and yet are really, really inept when dealing with teenagers? 

And enough of the dysfunctional family dynamics crap. More zombies! Or more accurately, at least some zombies!!

...And I didn't miss Nick .. or Ofelia.. at all. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by shrewd.buddha

[RustbeltWriter]

This wasn't a bad episode if we're grading on a FTWD scale but once again a giant plot hole detracts from an other wise decent episode. It was never explained why it was so important for the bros to kill James. They ended up leaving Travis at the farm, so why not just leave James with him? I've noticed on this and the mothership, the writers seem to outline what plot points they want to hit in an episode and then write to them. The problem is they often fail to make the lead in to those points believable or give the characters enough motivation for the actions they take.

[lezlers]

10 hours ago, AngryCarrot86 said:

My favorite highlights: 

"We should have been eating egggggs".  Because... Being a whiny assed, middle aged school teacher around murderous teens is going to go over well in the ZA.  I mean, of course Travis was right, but as a high school educator, he should have known that explaining the "why" behind that would have been beneficial to those stupid boys. 

"Sorry, not sorry".  Clearly, the writers are hipster millennials. That was not a "cool" phrase in 2010.  Ugh. 

Maddie and all of the poor choices.  Ever.  Like, all of them.  Way to attract every survivor in town.  Way to ruin Alicia's day.  What exactly was Maddie's point with telling her that?  Way to try and get fresh with Travis while he's telling you about how he had to leave Chris.  I did laugh when he ducked her advances. 

LOL at Travis getting through that gate without a stampede.  Yeah right.  And where were the zombies???  The Mexican zombies are accustomed to the living walking around in guts, they should have been all over that clean mob!  

I'm going to keep watching, and I'm going to keep bitching.  This damned show.  

Okay, I HATE Madison (see my prior posts) but by the end of the convo with Alicia, I began to understand why she told her (through the beginning I kept saying "wtf Madison?  Why are you even telling her this other than to ruin her fucking day!").  The way I interpreted the conversation was that Alicia's dad suffered from depression and ultimately killed himself.  Nick shared his same demons and acted just like his father so Madison was petrified Nick was going to follow in his father's footsteps and kill himself and that was why she was so obsessed with helping him to the detriment of her relationship with Alicia.  It was literally a matter of life and death to her. Ultimately, it was meant to explain why she'd been such a shitty mom and from Alicia's reaction, it seemed to have worked.

9 hours ago, TDT said:

So did they take the time to check any of those refugees for bite marks..?

Maybe thats why there going to be a two-hour finale..First hour will deal with the group having to kill some of the refugees who turned off-screen,then the second hour will be about the imminent invasion of Colonia(spearheaded by a slowly turning Alejandro)

Yeah, they had that whole set up in the parking garage, remember?  Sort of like a triage.

Edited September 26, 2016 by lezlers

[CloudySky]

I think Brandon had to kill James to prove a point to himself because he couldn't do it before for the friend who really needed it. He was blinded by those similar circumstances reason be damned. (But really who the fuck cares about the psychology behind douchebro's actions so that just ended up making no sense because we're seeing it from Travis's pov). The other dude is too weak to have an opinion and Chris is completely off the deep end. Bye bye baby James.

I didn't think Kim D was as bad as people were saying but wow, this episode she was horrible. Zero emotion during all of her scenes. Her only saving grace is that she has an emotive tone of voice but that wasn't enough this time. I loved Alicia's incredulous 'it's not important?!' wtf Madison lol you can't mention there's a note and then brush it off.

Alycia mentioned this weekend at Comic Con Copenhagen that a lot of that scene had to be ADR'd so I paid attention to it and it was really noticeable. Took me out of it a bit.

Cliff did a good job carrying this episode. Him and Kim were like opposite sides of the acting spectrum.

Anyone else think that lady was hit by the same crazy batlady who ran off Nick in the premiere lol

[Primetimer]

Who's well-positioned for survival heading into next week's double-sized season finale?

View the full article

[JackONeill]

7 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Okay, I HATE Madison (see my prior posts) but by the end of the convo with Alicia, I began to understand why she told her (through the beginning I kept saying "wtf Madison?  Why are you even telling her this other than to ruin her fucking day!").  The way I interpreted the conversation was that Alicia's dad suffered from depression and ultimately killed himself.  Nick shared his same demons and acted just like his father so Madison was petrified Nick was going to follow in his father's footsteps and kill himself and that was why she was so obsessed with helping him to the detriment of her relationship with Alicia. Ultimately, it was meant to explain why she'd been such a shitty mom and from Alicia's reaction, it seemed to have worked.

I agree. But two things: either the writing was off (probably) or the actors were off (also probably), but I wasn't...convinced by it. After a few minutes, I decided that that's the takeaway the audience was supposed to have, that Maddison and Alicia had cleared the air, and now they were the best of buds, kinda like the Two Musketeers (yeah, ok, my words.)  

And, maybe, that is exactly all it is. But won't that limit some of the "drama" the writers have gone to in these last two seasons: family drama. Forget zombies, this show is like some weird variation on Party of Five (or Eight is Enough for you old-timers)  So, if they have Madison and Alicia patch things up and become BFFs, I can see that limiting the "family storylines."

Of course, the writers could always write about zombies and things like that. But...maybe not.

[Ohwell]

Didn't Chris witness Travis and Madison shooting his mother?  Of course, we know she was bitten and wanted to be put out of her misery, but the point is that he saw his father and stepmother shoot his mom.  I don't blame him for being psycho and fucked up in the head because I don't know many people, especially a teenager, who wouldn't be in that situation. 

I like Chris and I dream of him shooting Madison in the head. 

[Madding crowd]

I like Travis and his story and was happy to see him again. I didn't understand Chris wanting to go with those people. I get it that they are going the Shane route of Chris trying to tell his dad "This is how it is". Only it fell flat for me because they don't really know how it is. It is still early on in the ZA, and these young guys haven't been through much at all. Alll Chris saw was that the guys are willing to kill their friend for convenience sake which means they will do the same for him. Yes, they do need to rifle through houses and so forth to get food and supplied, but Travis already knows this. I just don't see these guys having extensive experience with the Dead for Chris to decide they know anything.

Of course Madison and her antics drew crowds to the hotel. Why didn't the others just evict her at this point? And if they are letting in a group of people, how do they know if they are bad guys or not? What if one of the people has hidden weapons and kills everyone? And of they must have limited supplies. I'm all for holing up in a large building (I have always said I would hole in an apartment building and booby trap the stairs), but you have to have a plan-when will you reinforce the doors so 100's of people aren't coming in?

They needed some walkers in this episode. Part of the scare factor in TWD was seeing walkers right away and in every episode. This group isn't interesting enough without them.

[natyxg]

14 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Didn't Chris witness Travis and Madison shooting his mother?  Of course, we know she was bitten and wanted to be put out of her misery, but the point is that he saw his father and stepmother shoot his mom.  I don't blame him for being psycho and fucked up in the head because I don't know many people, especially a teenager, who wouldn't be in that situation. 

I like Chris and I dream of him shooting Madison in the head. 

No, I don't think he did. IIRC he was with Alicia in Strand's house when they heard the shot.

10 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I like Travis and his story and was happy to see him again. I didn't understand Chris wanting to go with those people. I get it that they are going the Shane route of Chris trying to tell his dad "This is how it is". Only it fell flat for me because they don't really know how it is. It is still early on in the ZA, and these young guys haven't been through much at all. Alll Chris saw was that the guys are willing to kill their friend for convenience sake which means they will do the same for him. Yes, they do need to rifle through houses and so forth to get food and supplied, but Travis already knows this. I just don't see these guys having extensive experience with the Dead for Chris to decide they know anything.

I think it's because the implication is that the Zombie Apocalypse gave Chris the excuse to be a psycho and he enjoys it. Even if he did "what was necessary" regarding Elias and the other dude, he had zero remorse which is expected from a normal person, specially so early on. It was as if saying that they did what they had to was supposed to be the excuse, but deep down he didn't even need an excuse. Leaving his dad behind was more of the same psycho attitude because if it was really about Travis not "getting it", not understanding that this is the world now, then a more normal person would have preferred to stay with him to protect him and to do what Travis isn't willing to. But Chris basically leaves him to die, his own dad, and leaves him to be with some dudebros he barely even knows. He enjoys the sense of power and freedom, and I fully expect him to screw over the dudes he left with, not the other way around.

I still hope he dies, though.

[Ohwell]

7 minutes ago, natyxg said:

No, I don't think he did. IIRC he was with Alicia in Strand's house when they heard the shot.

But he still knows they shot his mother.

[ghoulina]

19 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

 

I like Travis and his story and was happy to see him again. I didn't understand Chris wanting to go with those people. I get it that they are going the Shane route of Chris trying to tell his dad "This is how it is". Only it fell flat for me because they don't really know how it is. It is still early on in the ZA, and these young guys haven't been through much at all. Alll Chris saw was that the guys are willing to kill their friend for convenience sake which means they will do the same for him. Yes, they do need to rifle through houses and so forth to get food and supplied, but Travis already knows this. I just don't see these guys having extensive experience with the Dead for Chris to decide they know anything.

 

I think, for Christ, it was more about fitting in. No, he doesn't really know what these guys have been through and how they'll react in every situation. But he likely just gets a sense about them. More than that, he liked that THEY LIKED how he responded in the store. Christ talked with his dad about not fitting in. Now these older guys like him and think he has what it takes, so he's all over that. 

[nitrofishblue]

Watching Madison 's face when she was talking to her daughter almost made me barf all over my TV. MAN, is she terrible!!!!!! Her facial expressions range from none to none to none.  She would be better as a zombie.