S08.E22: Reunion Part 2

[Former Nun]

Is it dangerous here to say that I really enjoy Bethenny more than the others...and my next favorite is Carole?

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, Former Nun said:

Is it dangerous here to say that I really enjoy Bethenny more than the others...and my next favorite is Carole?

Of course not! LOL We may disagree about who we like/dislike but it is fun to look at different sides and no one should feel that they can't express their opinions. ;)

[jaync]

Quote

I guess the comments about how vile Bethenny is are driving Bravo to want her back all the more.  Well, actually it's the decent ratings, as I knew it would be.  Sigh.

Thing is, there's no proof that Bethany is solely responsible for the decent/good ratings, though. It was posted that an as advertised, Bethany-heavy episode last season had very low ratings, and I believe this season's first episode was one of the lowest rated premieres ever. So, if Andy is going to hail Bethany for when the ratings are good, then he needs to also blame her for when they're bad.

Quote

I'd like to see them cast someone strong-willed, supremely confident, accomplished & over 40.

They had that person in Heather. But, the likes of her ain't happening again as long as Bethany and her stank are around.

Edited September 13, 2016 by jaync

[zoeysmom]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

The wait staff may have countered Bethenny's claim that Tom/Bunny made out for 1 - 2 hours. He had already admitted to Luann that he had in fact kissed the woman, so the only question remaining was for how long. Yes, there were/are several photos of them kissing but not a 2 hour video of it and according to Bethenny, no second hand info is allowed, so hearing directly from someone at the Regency who witnessed it first hand may have made it a bit less tawdry. Although he still passionately kissed someone other than Luann, which was/is wrong on it's own, making out for 1 - 2 hours makes it look/seem worse IMO.

There may be another side to it, and because Dorinda is a poor communicator, it could have been as simple as Tom asking for Dorinda to support Luann forgiving Tom.  Or saying Tom is a good guy and it was out of his character.  Maybe that is what she considered lying for him.  I don't think Dorinda always thinks things out before she slurs speaks.  She has seemed to have changed her tune.

[ZaldamoWilder]

13 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

There may be another side to it, and because Dorinda is a poor communicator, it could have been as simple as Tom asking for Dorinda to support Luann forgiving Tom.  Or saying Tom is a good guy and it was out of his character.  Maybe that is what she considered lying for him.  I don't think Dorinda always thinks things out before she slurs speaks.  She has seemed to have changed her tune.

Fair enough.   But doesn't he cancel out this warm and fuzzy with:  if you don't wanna hear it, you can't come to the wedding?

[Knuckles]

Off topic, but how I miss Prince. 

[motorcitymom65]

9 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Fair enough.   But doesn't he cancel out this warm and fuzzy with:  if you don't wanna hear it, you can't come to the wedding?

Right on. This is the thing for me. He could try to splain away the kissing. He was hurt, he thought that he and Lu were over. He was drunk and sad and fell into this nasty woman's clutches. He had a weak moment and forgot himself. Wouldn't be good enough for me, but then I don't go around sleeping with Pirates while my boyfriend waits around at home. Would probably be good enough for Lu. Who is she to judge? But threatening a friend to lie/see my side of things/act as a proxy for my good name? That is just an asshole move there. How can that be painted in a good light? 

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, Former Nun said:

Is it dangerous here to say that I really enjoy Bethenny more than the others...and my next favorite is Carole?

Well, I love Ramona and I think maybe there are only 2 at my table. I like Bethenny and Carole too…and I do like snarking about ALL of them.

Bethenny will always have a spot on this show.Bravo is very big on social media and use the information they gather from these platforms. Just look at the PTV message board for the NY franchise. Their researchers don’t read the boards, but they cut and paste the posts into a separate stream and run a software code like the HR divisions of a company do for resumes. They will come up with different reports based on the key words they want the software to look for. So I can see the first run being each cast member name and nicknames. Bethenny wins hands down…just look at PTV and how many times she’s mentioned on the episode thread. Bravo doesn’t care if you are pro or anti a specific housewife. Look at the individual thread for each housewife. Bethenny is up to 65 pages and she was off the show for a few seasons and she even has a separate thread for her divorce. Every interview the other cast members have included a question about Bethenny. Luanne can’t go wedding gown shopping without questions about Bethenny.

The same thing is happening on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat.

The issue for Bethenny is she opened Pandora’s Box with her behavior this season. Her divorce is OVER. She may not talk about her divorce and Dennis might not sign the release to be filmed…but what she did to Luanne and Jules…opens the door for them to talk about Dennis. I can see Luanne filming with Dorinda and saying I heard Dennis and Jill are still hooking up or Dennis is playing around on Bethenny. Then even if Bethenny confronts Luanne, Luanne can say “word on the street” or I will never, never, ever reveal my source (cough, Jill Zarin) Bethenny can’t sue Luanne or any other housewife – they can just say I am just repeating what I heard.

I’m having myself a giggle thinking of Luanne saying I heard Dennis preys on wealthy women. Bethenny going apeshit and then Luanne saying I heard from several mutual acquaintances (Jill Zarin cough and Kelly Bensimon cough)

At Joanne’s when Bethenny said who told you I said anything negative about your marriage? Jules did the neck and side eye twitch towards Dorinda. During this reunion Part 2, where Bethenny is telling Jules that through mutual friends she heard that Jules signed a pre-nup and came on this show knowing they were going to divorce I was hoping Bethenny pulled the Jules neck/eye twitch towards Dorinda sitting on the sofa.

Edited September 12, 2016 by KungFuBunny

[AuntiePam]

5 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Too bad Omarossa hooked up with trump, she would have been a formidable opponent to B.

she was a guest on BETh show and shut her up like I have never seen before.

It was a thing of beauty.

Really?  She must have grown some brain cells since The Apprentice.  What I remember most about Omarosa was that she accused a contestant of racism, because of a comment that Omarosa had apparently never heard and didn't understand.  The contestant (tiny woman, forgot her name) had said to someone "That's the pot calling the kettle black."  Trump sure liked her though.  He has a thing for beauty contestants.

[Duke2801]

1 hour ago, Former Nun said:

Is it dangerous here to say that I really enjoy Bethenny more than the others...and my next favorite is Carole?

Yes.  HTH! 

LOL.  J/K.  I am not a fan of Beth, but don't despise her with a strong vehemence like some do. 

And. Although she hasn't been endearing herself to me as much as she used to, I will stand with you in liking Carole.  We're a small organization, with membership dwindling each season.  But we are mostly pretty chill. And we serve snacks (like acid-laced gummies and pot brownies, ofc).

[motorcitymom65]

7 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

Yes.  HTH! 

LOL.  J/K.  I am not a fan of Beth, but don't despise her with a strong vehemence like some do. 

And. Although she hasn't been endearing herself to me as much as she used to, I will stand with you in liking Carole.  We're a small organization, with membership dwindling each season.  But we are mostly pretty chill. And we serve snacks (like acid-laced gummies and pot brownies, ofc).

Please make some room for me. I'll bring some snacks, although I can't with the vegan/vegetarian stuff. Whatever I bring to nosh on will more than likely have had parents. 

[Duke2801]

1 minute ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Please make some room for me. I'll bring some snacks, although I can't with the vegan/vegetarian stuff. Whatever I bring to nosh on will more than likely have had parents. 

Excellent.  I like to think of myself as pretty flexible, but I DO take a strong stance against vegan ceviche and cauliflower "pizza."

[zoeysmom]

53 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Fair enough.   But doesn't he cancel out this warm and fuzzy with:  if you don't wanna hear it, you can't come to the wedding?

That is why I am wondering if he said something about expressing support.  Dorinda's version does not entirely make sense.  So in other words, Dorinda could sit in with those saying Luann should dump Tom and then expect to be in wedding.

[Mondrianyone]

3 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

LOL @ Judge Judy and J-Lo doing this show.  Sure.  Let's also try to recruit Jennifer Aniston while we're at it. And why not add Angelina Jolie to really make it spicy? I mean, c'mon. These super-rich stars ain't gonna be doing any Real Housewives shit in this lifetime.

It was a joke, not a legitimate casting suggestion.  Mrs. Obama is gonna be free soon.  Maybe we should add her to that list, too.

[straightshooter]

3 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

LOL @ Judge Judy and J-Lo doing this show.  Sure.  Let's also try to recruit Jennifer Aniston while we're at it. And why not add Angelina Jolie to really make it spicy? I mean, c'mon. These super-rich stars ain't gonna be doing any Real Housewives shit in this lifetime.

On the other hand, it is realistic to hope that they might bring Heather and Kristin back. And, perhaps less realistically, Jill. But oooh, I'd love it.  Not because I love Jill.  But I just think it would be so interesting to see how the relationship between her and Beth would play out.   

I wish Michael Rappaport could at least be a "friend of".  We'd have a shot at more laughs than we've had during the past two seasons.  Unless Ramona takes a dance class, of course.  That would be comedy gold.  

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, KungFuBunny said:

Well, I love Ramona and I think maybe there are only 2 at my table. I like Bethenny and Carole too…and I do like snarking about ALL of them.

Bethenny will always have a spot on this show.Bravo is very big on social media and use the information they gather from these platforms. Just look at the PTV message board for the NY franchise. Their researchers don’t read the boards, but they cut and paste the posts into a separate stream and run a software code like the HR divisions of a company do for resumes. They will come up with different reports based on the key words they want the software to look for. So I can see the first run being each cast member name and nicknames. Bethenny wins hands down…just look at PTV and how many times she’s mentioned on the episode thread. Bravo doesn’t care if you are pro or anti a specific housewife. Look at the individual thread for each housewife. Bethenny is up to 65 pages and she was off the show for a few seasons and she even has a separate thread for her divorce. Every interview the other cast members have included a question about Bethenny. Luanne can’t go wedding gown shopping without questions about Bethenny.

The same thing is happening on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat.

The issue for Bethenny is she opened Pandora’s Box with her behavior this season. Her divorce is OVER. She may not talk about her divorce and Dennis might not sign the release to be filmed…but what she did to Luanne and Jules…opens the door for them to talk about Dennis. I can see Luanne filming with Dorinda and saying I heard Dennis and Jill are still hooking up or Dennis is playing around on Bethenny. Then even if Bethenny confronts Luanne, Luanne can say “word on the street” or I will never, never, ever reveal my source (cough, Jill Zarin) Bethenny can’t sue Luanne or any other housewife – they can just say I am just repeating what I heard.

I’m having myself a giggle thinking of Luanne saying I heard Dennis preys on wealthy women. Bethenny going apeshit and then Luanne saying I heard from several mutual acquaintances (Jill Zarin cough and Kelly Bensimon cough)

At Joanne’s when Bethenny said who told you I said anything negative about your marriage? Jules did the neck and side eye twitch towards Dorinda. During this reunion Part 2, where Bethenny is telling Jules that through mutual friends she heard that Jules signed a pre-nup and came on this show knowing they were going to divorce I was hoping Bethenny pulled the Jules neck/eye twitch towards Dorinda sitting on the sofa.

I'm not so sure.......my example would be Brandi (BH)! She was once very popular and fell from grace with her OTT nasty behavior and even though she generated countless post/comments she was fired. I don't know how long Bravo will keep Bethenny on this show but no one is irreplaceable now days. Also, I am not sure how many more seasons Bethenny can afford to be on the show with all the negative feedback she is getting before her SKG sales really tank for good, she will have to weigh her desire for fame over tanking SKG sales before it is too late. I am not so sure SKG will win out here, I think she has a desperate need for fame/adulation/recognition more than any money she can get from SKG.

[ZaldamoWilder]

50 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

It was a joke, not a legitimate casting suggestion.  Mrs. Obama is gonna be free soon.  Maybe we should add her to that list, too.

Only if her tagline could be:  I had a tagline but Mrs. Trump stole it. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

There may be another side to it, and because Dorinda is a poor communicator, it could have been as simple as Tom asking for Dorinda to support Luann forgiving Tom.  Or saying Tom is a good guy and it was out of his character.  Maybe that is what she considered lying for him. 

Why did Tom want a bunch of waiters to be there if all he wanted to do was ask Dorinda for her support?  Their presence seems completely unnecessary.

It appears to me that Tom wanted people who had been there that night to tell Dorinda his version of events.  When that didn't work he had to tell the truth and admit that he "messed up."   If he, in fact, messed up as he claimed, what exactly was it that he was going to have the waitstaff tell Dorinda?  If not lies about what happened that night, it was to tell Dorinda he was a good guy and what he did was out of character?  Really? The waiters from the bar he frequents are the best character witnesses he can produce?  

That really doesn't speak well of Tom if it is true.  You'd think the guy would have some close friends who would be willing to attest to how great a guy he is.  Unless, of course, having someone tell Dorinda he was a good guy was not why he wanted the waiters there to do and his real plan was to have them lie.  We just keep circling back around to "lie" it seems, lol. 

3 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Fair enough.   But doesn't he cancel out this warm and fuzzy with:  if you don't wanna hear it, you can't come to the wedding?

Kinda flies in the face of the theory that acting like as asshole is "out of character" for Tom, doesn't it? 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[zoeysmom]

20 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Why did Tom want a bunch of waiters to be there if all he wanted to do was ask Dorinda for her support?  Their presence seems completely unnecessary.

It appears to me that wanted people who had been there that night to tell Dorinda his version of events.  When that didn't work he had to tell the truth and admit that he "messed up."   If he, in fact, messed up as he claimed, what exactly was it that he was going to have the waitstaff tell Dorinda?  If not lies about what happened that night, it was to tell Dorinda he was a good guy and what he did was out of character?  Really? The waiters from the bar he frequents are the best character witnesses he can produce?  

That really doesn't speak well of Tom if it is true.  You'd think the guy would have some close friends who would be willing to attest to how great a guy he is.  Unless, of course, having someone tell Dorinda he was a good guy was not why he wanted the waiters there to do and his real plan was to have them lie.  We just keep circling back around to "lie" it seems, lol. 

Kinda flies in the face of the theory that acting like as asshole is "out of character" for Tom, doesn't it? 

Like I said, Dorinda wasn't obviously be called as a percipient witness.  Maybe the wait staff was going to say it was just some smooching, not a one make that two hour make out session, maybe they were going to dispute the "hundreds of people" that saw Tom and Debbie.  By Dorinda refusing to listen, my guess is we will never know.  I don't think it begs reality to suggest that if Tom felt that Dorinda was not being supportive of he and Luann's relationship he had no desire to continue a friendship with her.  I just don't think he should have spoken for Luann.

I am leaning towards Dorinda not wanting to lie that she was okay or forgiving of Tom's behavior.  I don't think Dorinda, after being called the village idiot, was anxious to be roped into "blind loyalty" on Tom's behalf. 

To me it is a little like a candidate getting it deep doo-doo and people in his camp jumping ship.  Candidate gets elected and some of the ship jumpers wonder why there are no political appointments coming their way. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Maybe the wait staff was going to say it was just some smooching, not a one make that two hour make out session, maybe they were going to dispute the "hundreds of people" that saw Tom and Debbie.  

I can't get with the idea that just because Tom maybe wasn't slobbering all over this bunny woman for quite as long as originally reported somehow makes it much better.

And I don't see what good would be done by convincing Dorinda that fewer people saw them then she thought.  It's not like he wanted her to think no one else knew about so he could beg her to keep it quiet for Luann's sake or something.  He knew that all the housewives knew about it and it was going to be on the show.   I just don't see the point in making it sound like not many people saw them. What difference does it really make how many people saw them?

Actually, the fact that they were kissing openly in front of the whole bar inures to Tom's favor in terms of his claims he was shitfaced and didn't know what he was doing.  If he had been sneakier about it, it would suggest he knew he was doing something wrong.  I don't see the benefit in playing down how openly they were carrying on at all. 

The only possibly evenly slightly honest thing I could imagine the waiters telling Dorinda that would get Tom off the hook even a little was that Tom was blind stinking blackout drunk and had no idea what was happening.  Which is a whole other problem in and of itself (possibly even worse than being a serial cheater) if he has such a problem with alcohol. 

[ButterQueen]

I am finally watching this episode.  The entire first 15 minutes is ALL Bethenny....with Dorinda and Ramona being her Greek chorus.  She's been crying the entire time.  Ugh!  I hope I can make it through.  

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

I'm not so sure.......my example would be Brandi (BH)! She was once very popular and fell from grace with her OTT nasty behavior and even though she generated countless post/comments she was fired. I don't know how long Bravo will keep Bethenny on this show but no one is irreplaceable now days. Also, I am not sure how many more seasons Bethenny can afford to be on the show with all the negative feedback she is getting before her SKG sales really tank for good, she will have to weigh her desire for fame over tanking SKG sales before it is too late. I am not so sure SKG will win out here, I think she has a desperate need for fame/adulation/recognition more than any money she can get from SKG.

Brandi's behavior was tolerated as long as she had the queen B in her corner.  It seems she was fired when LVP turned on her.  It would seem that Beth is the LVP on this franchise.  I imagine Beth has a job for as long as she wants it unless all the other ladies turn on her.

I'm not sure why everyone is upset at the thought of an out of country trip excluding Beth.  I think this season's trip was scrapped because Bethenny was the supposed host.  Next season I don't see that happening.  They've filmed scenes that excluded Beth, so surely they would film a trip that all but Beth participated in.  They would intercut with a few scenes of Beth interacting with staph.  Some of the best stuff last season was after Beth left and Dorinda went drunken postal on Heather.

[WireWrap]

20 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Brandi's behavior was tolerated as long as she had the queen B in her corner.  It seems she was fired when LVP turned on her.  It would seem that Beth is the LVP on this franchise.  I imagine Beth has a job for as long as she wants it unless all the other ladies turn on her.

I'm not sure why everyone is upset at the thought of an out of country trip excluding Beth.  I think this season's trip was scrapped because Bethenny was the supposed host.  Next season I don't see that happening.  They've filmed scenes that excluded Beth, so surely they would film a trip that all but Beth participated in.  They would intercut with a few scenes of Beth interacting with staph.  Some of the best stuff last season was after Beth left and Dorinda went drunken postal on Heather.

The T&C trip last season was a short trip as well because Bethenny wanted to attend something Bryn was in at school. This season, no main/big trip once again. I just don't see Bethenny doing a week long trip because of Bryn, she isn't going to allow Jason to have her 1 minute longer than she is required to do, work be dammed. Funny though, Bethenny was able to go on the Mexico trip a few weeks later with her bf but not with the HWs. LOL IMO, There is no way they would do the big girls trip without Bethenny, no way, otherwise they would have done it this year.

[Former Nun]

3 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

And. Although she hasn't been endearing herself to me as much as she used to, I will stand with you in liking Carole.  We're a small organization, with membership dwindling each season.  But we are mostly pretty chill. And we serve snacks (like acid-laced gummies and pot brownies, ofc).

Thanks, Duke.  Maybe I've been quiet too long* and you didn't notice me.  I am an old and charter member of your organization.    *I had knee replacement surgery in mid-February, followed by a physical therapy "accident" (the therapist broke my femur) in late February.  I was hospitalized, surgeried, banned to a rehab facility (more of an internment) and am still painfully recovering and being tortured by physical therapists.  My brain wasn't interested in TV, reading, or playing on the computer for Way Too Long!  Perhaps I was "dwindling" but I've returned to defend Bethenny et al (except Luann). 

[Duke2801]

24 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Thanks, Duke.  Maybe I've been quiet too long* and you didn't notice me.  I am an old and charter member of your organization.    *I had knee replacement surgery in mid-February, followed by a physical therapy "accident" (the therapist broke my femur) in late February.  I was hospitalized, surgeried, banned to a rehab facility (more of an internment) and am still painfully recovering and being tortured by physical therapists.  My brain wasn't interested in TV, reading, or playing on the computer for Way Too Long!  Perhaps I was "dwindling" but I've returned to defend Bethenny et al (except Luann). 

 

Oh wow - sorry to hear about your injury.  :(  Glad you are starting on the mend -- welcome back!

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I can't get with the idea that just because Tom maybe wasn't slobbering all over this bunny woman for quite as long as originally reported somehow makes it much better.

And I don't see what good would be done by convincing Dorinda that fewer people saw them then she thought.  It's not like he wanted her to think no one else knew about so he could beg her to keep it quiet for Luann's sake or something.  He knew that all the housewives knew about it and it was going to be on the show.   I just don't see the point in making it sound like not many people saw them. What difference does it really make how many people saw them?

Actually, the fact that they were kissing openly in front of the whole bar inures to Tom's favor in terms of his claims he was shitfaced and didn't know what he was doing.  If he had been sneakier about it, it would suggest he knew he was doing something wrong.  I don't see the benefit in playing down how openly they were carrying on at all. 

The only possibly evenly slightly honest thing I could imagine the waiters telling Dorinda that would get Tom off the hook even a little was that Tom was blind stinking blackout drunk and had no idea what was happening.  Which is a whole other problem in and of itself (possibly even worse than being a serial cheater) if he has such a problem with alcohol. 

Bingo. And there is no indication that Dorinda wasn't aware of what Tom wanted her to say. Surely he didn't just say "can you come down and talk to a couple of these waiters". He said more and she didn't like it. 

The thing is, Dorinda has been completely supportive of Lu and Tom. It's not like Carole, Beth, Sonja or Ramona refused the request. This is Dorinda we are talking about. She wants them to have the happy ending. He said something that clearly unsettled her. Then again, she was unsettled by someone walking into a restaurant without her, so there is that. 

And if there was a different narrative to peddle, then why stop with Dorinda? Was she the only person these two know that would be willing to listen to a few Waiters and hear their story clearing up the situation? If he had something of value to say, then why not get the word out there? He couldn't, so he had to come clean in the press. Yes, Lu, he is quite a catch and everyone is jealous of you because he is all yours. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

13 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Bingo. And there is no indication that Dorinda wasn't aware of what Tom wanted her to say. Surely he didn't just say "can you come down and talk to a couple of these waiters". He said more and she didn't like it. 

I would bet cash money that after Tom told Dorinda he wanted her to meet with these waiters, the first word out of her mouth was "why?" At which point Tom gave her a little preview of the testimony she was going to hear.  Obviously Dorinda heard something that flew in the face of what she believed to be the truth and (as she stated later) she felt pressured to not only meet with Tom but to spread his version of the story around, a version she felt was untruthful. So she declined. And then proceeded to go around telling anyone who would listen what Tom did, lol.

I may have missed it, but has Luann claimed on the show or the reunion or in her blog that Tom didn't want Dorinda to lie for him? That there was some innocent reason she needed to hear what a bunch of waiters were hired to going to tell her?  Or has Luann denied that Tom threatened to cut Dorinda off if she didn't do what he wanted?  Because if I were Luann, I would be denying the hell out of the whole story Dorinda was telling, especially the part about the threat.  But I don't recall Luann responding to any of this.  But like I said, I might have missed it.  

[motorcitymom65]

15 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I would bet cash money that after Tom told Dorinda he wanted her to meet with these waiters, the first word out of her mouth was "why?" At which point Tom gave her a little preview of the testimony she was going to hear.  Obviously Dorinda heard something that flew in the face of what she believed to be the truth and (as she stated later) she felt pressured to not only meet with Tom but to spread his version of the story around, a version she felt was untruthful. So she declined. And then proceeded to go around telling anyone who would listen what Tom did, lol.

I may have missed it, but has Luann claimed on the show or the reunion or in her blog that Tom didn't want Dorinda to lie for him? That there was some innocent reason she needed to hear what a bunch of waiters were hired to going to tell her?  Or has Luann denied that Tom threatened to cut Dorinda off if she didn't do what he wanted?  Because if I were Luann, I would be denying the hell out of the whole story Dorinda was telling, especially the part about the threat.  But I don't recall Luann responding to any of this.  But like I said, I might have missed it.  

If you have missed it, I have as well. I don't think it's been addressed at all, or denied by anyone. My hope is this is a big component of the reunion. There has been a lot of speculation on this forum that Dorinda got it wrong and that Tom wasn't asking her to lie, but as far as I know that is just speculation because it hasn't been discussed among the women. Yet. 

[Celia Rubenstein]

I am glad to hear that.  It will give me a reason to watch part 3. I am dying to hear Lu explain what it was these waiters had to add that was so important.  And hear her excuse Tom going around threatening people that they couldn't be her friend any more. What other decisions will Tom be making for you in the future, Lu?  LOL

I also want to know why Luann has never mentioned what these waiters had to say in any of her explanations about why she was willing to forgive Tom.  If it was so important and exonerated him, how come it seems to have played no part in her decision? 

[tenativelyyours]

6 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Only if her tagline could be:  I had a tagline but Mrs. Trump stole it. 

Good one.  But if Michelle Obama were to find herself on this show next season and not taking a year or so off to recoup, ease some of those lines on her fabulous husband's face and then dig in on a path towards either becoming a Supreme Court Justice or the first Black Female President of the United States her tag line could and SHOULD be:

What the GOOD FUCK I am doing HERE?!

A family saying from my Southern relatives who believe in the Designing Women maxim "we don't hide our crazy, we put out to sit on the front porch" (not sure I got that line right but you get the idea) is you fight crazy with crazy.

Tyra Banks is the one addition to the show that could simply take all the rest of them down and hard.  She is pretty crazy and a huge narcissist.  She one upped Kelly by declaring her Harvard vanity course meant she had been accepted and earned a Harvard degree and based a whole season of America's Top Model around it.  She is self-absorbed to the nth degree, not incredibly smart since self-awareness is key to that and she lacks completely.  She is mean and selfish by all accounts, holds grudges well and would not tolerate any of the Monster's attempts at wit with ethnic appropriation.  She has money and she still has ties in both the fashion world and the entertainment world.  She has a talk show that ran a lot longer than the Monster's (though that one is still a huge mystery to me but she did have Barack Obama on a as a guest among others a lot more famous than being on BRAVO which is what the Monster was reduced to early and fast).

 

did I mention Banks has shown again and again she is crazy vicious and viciously crazy? 

My problem with Dorinda as a source is not her credibility.  Will there is that.  This could be another instance of simply trying to play both sides I think I've seen her do more than once this season.  It also could just be another idiotic "you didn't wait to walk in all together moment".  But also in that at the time of the conversation with Tom, how invested could she have been?  Or how too invested could she have been that now she isn't when she is relating it all?  That probably does not make sense.  But in the midst of something like this, I think people can go back and forth assuming they have a relationship they care about with both people involved.  If Dorinda really likes Luann.  And not just as a co-worker she can have fun with and enjoy but can also walk away from with no regrets.  If Dorinda is truly friends of standing with Tom, I think that is going to cause someone to vacillate even without knowing it.  So what Dorinda thinks Tom was saying and what he was does not excuse Tom but it also makes her recollections or understanding of what was being said.

But overall for me it just does not paint a different picture of Tom as a wandering cock and Luann's asinine full marriage ahead no matter what with a man she doesn't know that well and one of the biggest tells was he doesn't mind asking a woman what she just had for dinner with his mouth after having dinner with his fiancee.  Loathsome Luann might be but just in general she deserves better.  If she realized that and wasn't settling just to be married in my opinion.  If her kids were smart they would go to one of those agencies that test someone for infidelity.  Only instead of hiring some woman to approach Tom, they would hire some handsome man who would appear to be wealthy, titled and connected and have him woo Luann and see how long Tom stayed in the picture.  Isn't there a Niarchos uncle of lesser but still substantial means back on the market? 

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I am glad to hear that.  It will give me a reason to watch part 3. I am dying to hear Lu explain what it was these waiters had to add that was so important.  And hear her excuse Tom going around threatening people that they couldn't be her friend any more. What other decisions will Tom be making for you in the future, Lu?  LOL

I also want to know why Luann has never mentioned what these waiters had to say in any of her explanations about why she was willing to forgive Tom.  If it was so important and exonerated him, how come it seems to have played no part in her decision? 

Maybe because Luann never heard what they had to say.

Luann didn't really give an explanation. . . she just said she had forgiven him.

[biakbiak]

35 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Maybe because Luann never heard what they had to say.

Luann didn't really give an explanation. . . she just said she had forgiven him.

Didn't she though? Dorinda actually said Lu and Tom called her together from the Regency with waiter plan.

[Celia Rubenstein]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Maybe because Luann never heard what they had to say.

 

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Didn't she though? Dorinda actually said Lu and Tom called her together from the Regency with waiter plan.

Yeah ... Dorinda did say Luann was there when Tom spoke with Dorinda, didn't she?  That's my recollection, too.  So Luann surely knew what this incredibly important information the waiters had to share was. 

It's funny that this information (which was so crucial that it warranted threats when Dorinda refused to listen) seems to have never been included in Lu's narrative and instead she decided to go with the "we had a fight and Tom was drunk and fell into some evil woman's clutches and who cares I forgive him" thing. You'd think if what the waiters had to say really exonerated Tom, Luann would have mentioned it..

Edited September 13, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[Kareem]

Looks like Cynthia stole LuAnn's hair, too.   ;)

[motorcitymom65]

9 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Maybe because Luann never heard what they had to say.

Luann didn't really give an explanation. . . she just said she had forgiven him.

She needed time to try to come up with an explanation, which I guess we will hear tomorrow night. It sometimes takes Lu a minute or two to get her story straight. As others have said, when Tom called he was with Lu at The Regency, I am assuming to get their plot ironed out. I find it hard to believe that with Lu sitting right there, Tom just horned Dorinda up on the phone, throwing out conspiracy plots and issuing threats, without Lu having any idea what he was talking about. If he did, then add that to the very long list of reasons Lu should run like hell from this dude. I'm only tuning in tomorrow night to hear how this whole thing works out. 

[Jel]

I'm a little lost about why Lu is so pissed at Bethenny -- I either missed an episode or fell asleep during one, but all I can remember is Lu being, understandably, devastated about the news of Tom's infidelity and then Lu (after someone questioned the merit of telling her) saying something like, "She's a friend, she told me because she's a friend" (or something like that).  (Personally, if I were in Lu's situation, I'd rather know than not).

Next thing I know is Lu is extremely angry at Bethenny.  Did I miss something? Is it shoot the messenger or is this a way for the previously side lined Lu and the always interested in being in the center Bethenny to make themselves the big story of the season?  Maybe pent up anger finding a channel through this?  

I think Luann is a fool for staying with this guy; if he can cheat on her during their honeymoon phase, what's he going to be like after a year or two?

Edited September 13, 2016 by Jel

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, Jel said:

I'm a little lost about why Lu is so pissed at Bethenny -- I either missed an episode or fell asleep during one, but all I can remember is Lu being, understandably, devastated about the news of Tom's infidelity and then Lu (after someone questioned the merit of telling her) saying something like, "She's a friend, she told me because she's a friend" (or something like that).  (Personally, if I were in Lu's situation, I'd rather know than not).

Next thing I know is Lu is extremely angry at Bethenny.  Did I miss something? Is it shoot the messenger or is this a way for the previously side lined Lu and the always interested in being in the center Bethenny to make themselves the big story of the season?  Maybe pent up anger finding a channel through this?  

I think Luann is a fool for staying with this guy; if he can cheat on her during their honeymoon phases, what's he going to be like after a year or two?

It changed when Luann found out that Bethenny told Carole and Ramona (who then told Sonja) about Tom's cheating first, before her, at the beginning of the weekend. She then felt that Bethenny used this to further hurt/humiliate her with the others, that Bethenny was not coming from a "place of caring" as she claimed she was.

[Jel]

1 minute ago, WireWrap said:

It changed when Luann found out that Bethenny told Carole and Ramona (who then told Sonja) about Tom's cheating first, before her, at the beginning of the weekend. She then felt that Bethenny used this to further hurt/humiliate her with the others, that Bethenny was not coming from a "place of caring" as she claimed she was.

Thank you, WireWrap.

That makes me think it's more shoot the messenger then. The bigger issue here is the cheating boyfriend -- that's who (in my mind) Lu should be most angry at. Even if Bethenny did have ulterior motives (which she may or may not have had), really, the bigger betrayal here is by her fiance. She's forgiven him, and instead directs her anger to the person who told her.  I think Freud would have a field day with these ladies -- defense mechanisms a go-go.

[WireWrap]

20 minutes ago, Jel said:

Thank you, WireWrap.

That makes me think it's more shoot the messenger then. The bigger issue here is the cheating boyfriend -- that's who (in my mind) Lu should be most angry at. Even if Bethenny did have ulterior motives (which she may or may not have had), really, the bigger betrayal here is by her fiance. She's forgiven him, and instead directs her anger to the person who told her.  I think Freud would have a field day with these ladies -- defense mechanisms a go-go.

Without a doubt, Tom committed the initial (big) offense (cheating) but Bethenny compounded Luann's hurt/humiliation in how she handled this, with Luann being told at the end of the weekend after Bethenny and team kept discussing it on camera over and over again.  Luann realized that Bethenny used this as fodder for the show instead of handling it in private.

[QuinnM]

Quote

Without a doubt, Tom committed the initial (big) offense (cheating) but Bethenny compounded Luann's hurt/humiliation in how she handled this, with Luann being told at the end of the weekend after Bethenny and team kept discussing it on camera over and over again.  Luann realized that Bethenny used this as fodder for the show instead of handling it in private.
 

Not sure what people wanted.  The only relationship that Lu and Beth have is on the show.   So there's no phone call off screen.  Then if I'm thinking of Lu and the show I would thing that she was going to be humiliated all over town, might as well get a good storyline out of it.  Telling her on screen is a big favor.  Then before or after the weekend.  Since Bethenny was on Doc ordered off her feet she wouldn't want to tell her before the weekend because all the drama would have been on THE yacht.  Plus if it was me ... I would be mentally begging Tom to handle it before I had to say something.  Remember she tried to call him so at the very least her caller id was on his phone. 

The worst was Ramona dancing around with a big smile on her face.  That made it a big mistake right there.

[WireWrap]

17 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Not sure what people wanted.  The only relationship that Lu and Beth have is on the show.   So there's no phone call off screen.  Then if I'm thinking of Lu and the show I would thing that she was going to be humiliated all over town, might as well get a good storyline out of it.  Telling her on screen is a big favor.  Then before or after the weekend.  Since Bethenny was on Doc ordered off her feet she wouldn't want to tell her before the weekend because all the drama would have been on THE yacht.  Plus if it was me ... I would be mentally begging Tom to handle it before I had to say something.  Remember she tried to call him so at the very least her caller id was on his phone. 

The worst was Ramona dancing around with a big smile on her face.  That made it a big mistake right there.

She could have told Luann as soon as she got to Miami, before telling Carole/Ramona, even on camera. But Bethenny wanted to drag it out for the whole weekend by telling the others first then Luann right before they left. Being told on camera isn't the shitty part, telling the others about it first then repeatedly talking about it with them is the shitty/nasty part IMO.

Bethenny was not on Dr.'s order to stay off her feet, otherwise she would not have been in Miami to begin with. LOL Bethenny did not go to the yacht/engagement party because, according to her, she knew what Tom had done and didn't want to "ruin" the party, Yeah Right! She cared so much about Luann that she had to tell her about his cheating but not before the "engagement" party even though she knew about it then. She waited to tell her to further Luann's humiliation on camera.

Bethenny's cell number would have shown up on his phone but not her name, so he would have no idea who the number belonged to. She had never met Tom or spoken to him in her life. If Bethenny really wanted Tom to handle this, she would have used Sonja's or Ramona's phone to contact him and she knows that, most people don't answer calls from unknown numbers. LOL

[Jel]

43 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Without a doubt, Tom committed the initial (big) offense (cheating) but Bethenny compounded Luann's hurt/humiliation in how she handled this, with Luann being told at the end of the weekend after Bethenny and team kept discussing it on camera over and over again.  Luann realized that Bethenny used this as fodder for the show instead of handling it in private.

You know, I have become so cynical about these HW shows that I wouldn't be at all surprised if Beth and Lu had some sort of secret agreement to make this whole thing the dramatic, three-parter that it was. 

[msblossom]

On 9/11/2016 at 3:48 PM, jinjer said:

I was very happy to see Jill Z go, but what I wouldn't give for Jill Z to be sitting at the head of the table over drinks with Luann, Sonja, Heather and Kristen deciding who gets to go and who doesn't get to go on a fabulous trip set up by Bawby. Oh I forgot Kelly!

My feeling is that one of the reasons Bethenny hates Luann so vehemently has to do with Lu maintaining an ongoing relationship with Jill.

I just don't know if I'm capable of stomaching both Bethenny and Jill Zarin. Jill is so thirsty to get back on this show that she'd swallow her pride and take a low salary. Jill would be interesting and somewhat winsome AT FIRST, but her ick factor would kick in and I just don't know that I want to see he return.

And please, no KKB, Kristen, or Heather. Not interested in seeing any of these women return. I have nothing against Heather, but she drains me a little. 

Here's an unpopular pitch, I could possibly entertain the idea Aviva making a limited return, I liked her first season before she went rogue. Maybe even Aviva and Jill Zarin, since I've heard they see each other socially, although I have no idea if they're friends. Aviva might have been onto something in regard to Carole employing a ghostwriter...would give my eye tooth to know the real scoop on that. Anyway, if Carole HAS to return next season then Aviva might be someone who forces Carole to bring something to the show. And for the love of all things sacred, there would have to be something written in Aviva's contract that prohibits her viagra-addled father from making any appearances. If those two are added, say Jill Z. full-time HW, and Aviva friend of Jill, then they can finally give Sonja the boot. Would like to see Carole downgraded to friend if they insist on bringing her back. Ramona can stay if Carol leaves or gets downgraded, but she needs to come to play and reveal some of her personal life. Jill Zarin may/may not walk on eggshells around B, but she will absolutely call Ramona out on her crap and gossip about what Ramona's hiding. Not sure how Jill would mix with Dorinda, they might be an interesting pair. They must've socially interacted somewhat over the years. 

[QuinnM]

Quote

Bethenny was not on Dr.'s order to stay off her feet, otherwise she would not have been in Miami to begin with.

Yup, according to her social media.  Someone called her out for being in a bikini in bed.  She was allowed a certain amount of time on her feet.  She was not allowed the long flight to LA or to Hawaii. 

Quote

Bethenny's cell number would have shown up on his phone but not her name, so he would have no idea who the number belonged to. She had never met Tom or spoken to him in her life. If Bethenny really wanted Tom to handle this, she would have used Sonja's or Ramona's phone to contact him and she knows that, most people don't answer calls from unknown numbers. LOL

I don't believe for one minute that Tom didn't know they were trying to contact him.  He should have stepped up.  He didn't.  Lu's going to pretend to marry him and have a happy life.  So he knows how to manipulate her.

But I'm with you.  I think Bethenny should have told her straight off.  Ruin Lu's weekend and with any luck ruin her life.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

has this made the boards yet, Tom's side piece, named: Deborah Driggs. Was married to Olympic gymnast Mitch Gaylord, they have 3 kids, sells insurance (Coto?) hahaha maybe Vicki sold her to Bravo to keep her Orange!  

 

http://heavy.com/entertainment/2016/09/deborah-driggs-who-tom-dagostino-cheated-with-on-luann-de-lesseps-fiance-still-cheating-is/

[WireWrap]

18 minutes ago, Jel said:

You know, I have become so cynical about these HW shows that I wouldn't be at all surprised if Beth and Lu had some sort of secret agreement to make this whole thing the dramatic, three-parter that it was. 

IMO, Luann's reaction was real, not fake. She was shattered. Bethenny, on the other hand, did delay telling Luann for the drama she knew the cheating story would bring, not because she was worried about Luann.

10 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Yup, according to her social media.  Someone called her out for being in a bikini in bed.  She was allowed a certain amount of time on her feet.  She was not allowed the long flight to LA or to Hawaii. 

I don't believe for one minute that Tom didn't know they were trying to contact him.  He should have stepped up.  He didn't.  Lu's going to pretend to marry him and have a happy life.  So he knows how to manipulate her.

But I'm with you.  I think Bethenny should have told her straight off.  Ruin Lu's weekend and with any luck ruin her life.

Bethenny can claim what she wants but if she was on "bed rest" she would not have been allowed to fly.....period. She was called out because she made claims she was "bleeding all over the place" but seen in her itty bitty bikini on a pristine white bed with no blood stains. Oh, and she was well enough to fly to Mexico the week after getting back from Miami! I honestly don't know how Bethenny can breathe through the BS she spews. LOL

How would Tom know he got caught? His back was to the camera the whole time. LOL No one else tried to contact him, not Ramona or Sonja, numbers he would recognize and answer, only Bethenny, someone he had never met.

Edited September 13, 2016 by WireWrap

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, Jel said:

I'm a little lost about why Lu is so pissed at Bethenny -- I either missed an episode or fell asleep during one, but all I can remember is Lu being, understandably, devastated about the news of Tom's infidelity and then Lu (after someone questioned the merit of telling her) saying something like, "She's a friend, she told me because she's a friend" (or something like that).  (Personally, if I were in Lu's situation, I'd rather know than not).

Next thing I know is Lu is extremely angry at Bethenny.  Did I miss something? Is it shoot the messenger or is this a way for the previously side lined Lu and the always interested in being in the center Bethenny to make themselves the big story of the season?  Maybe pent up anger finding a channel through this?  

I think Luann is a fool for staying with this guy; if he can cheat on her during their honeymoon phase, what's he going to be like after a year or two?

Really though, it's consistent with Lu's personality and the way that she handles things. In the moment, she was OK with what Beth did. Dorinda was wondering why Beth had to tell her now, and Lu had zero problem with it. Her initial reaction was that this is what a friend would do, and she said that she appreciated it. Even after Beth told her that she had already told Carole and Ramona (and that Ramona had told Sonja), Lu was fine with it. She seemed to appreciate that Beth was being honest about who she had told, and Lu said so in the moment. She went on to engage with Beth after that (the screaming at Beth to get her the Bloody Mary stat was hysterical, and came after Beth's reveal as to who she had told). She continued to go to Beth for more information. I thought her reaction very real, and her authentic emotions in that moment. 

Just like last year with her reaction to Carole and the whole Adam deal. At the time, she was a little put off by it, but she continued to love and be friends with Carole, exclaiming that they would work through it and that the friendship was the important thing. At no time did she indicate that what Carole was doing approached the level that caused her the anger that she threw at Carole later on. It was only after it all went down that she needed a way to find someone to blame for the issue she thought needed a culprit. She needed to take the heat off of the married man incident, so it became about Adam, and also the fact that those girls had barged into her room. In the moment they barged into her room, her reaction was everything. It was normal. She thought they were being loony, but she didn't believe they were trying to harm her or "catch" her. She was completely cool. It was only later when she was afraid of how she might look that she flipped her narrative. Her initial reaction is generally the right one, IMO. 

Carole said something in an early blog this season that I thought nailed it. She said that Lu is actually a decent person for the most part, but that she has a hard time merging the things that she thinks in her mind are the right things with some of the ways that she would really prefer to behave. She often does one thing initially, but then reflects that perhaps what she did won't come across in the way she thinks it should have, and she attempts to alter the reality of what actually happened to make things fit. 

[janie2002]

20 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Really though, it's consistent with Lu's personality and the way that she handles things. In the moment, she was OK with what Beth did. Dorinda was wondering why Beth had to tell her now, and Lu had zero problem with it. Her initial reaction was that this is what a friend would do, and she said that she appreciated it. Even after Beth told her that she had already told Carole and Ramona (and that Ramona had told Sonja), Lu was fine with it. She seemed to appreciate that Beth was being honest about who she had told, and Lu said so in the moment. She went on to engage with Beth after that (the screaming at Beth to get her the Bloody Mary stat was hysterical, and came after Beth's reveal as to who she had told). She continued to go to Beth for more information. I thought her reaction very real, and her authentic emotions in that moment. 

Just like last year with her reaction to Carole and the whole Adam deal. At the time, she was a little put off by it, but she continued to love and be friends with Carole, exclaiming that they would work through it and that the friendship was the important thing. At no time did she indicate that what Carole was doing approached the level that caused her the anger that she threw at Carole later on. It was only after it all went down that she needed a way to find someone to blame for the issue she thought needed a culprit. She needed to take the heat off of the married man incident, so it became about Adam, and also the fact that those girls had barged into her room. In the moment they barged into her room, her reaction was everything. It was normal. She thought they were being loony, but she didn't believe they were trying to harm her or "catch" her. She was completely cool. It was only later when she was afraid of how she might look that she flipped her narrative. Her initial reaction is generally the right one, IMO. 

Carole said something in an early blog this season that I thought nailed it. She said that Lu is actually a decent person for the most part, but that she has a hard time merging the things that she thinks in her mind are the right things with some of the ways that she would really prefer to behave. She often does one thing initially, but then reflects that perhaps what she did won't come across in the way she thinks it should have, and she attempts to alter the reality of what actually happened to make things fit. 

See I disagree. I think Luann was more worried about her fiance cheating on her. She didn't kill the messenger instead she was listening and trying to get the info. She did seem put off when B said I told Carole and Ramona and they told Sonja. She said so everyone has know all weekend. I think this was just more embarrassing to Luann, they were on this trip to celebrate her upcoming marriage!

I think after seeing the tape and seeing how they laughed about things and B even says later on she deserves it, she is the biggest whore.  That changed her reaction, her taking the time to process this B waited to tell me on camera after laughing about it all weekend.

If i had a friend tell me my husband cheated while crying, i would feel safe.. understood. If I later heard and SAW her making fun of it both before and after telling me, I would feel betrayed again.

[izabella]

I'm pretty sure Bethy would have handled it COMPLETELY differently if it had been Adam kissing someone else.  I'll bet she would have told Carole immediately.  Bethy wouldn't have told everyone else and the cameras first so they could all get a good laugh about it before setting Carole up to be ambushed on camera with the info.

[Otherkate]

I think Lu probably watched the episodes and didn't like the girls talking about it without her, giggling, etc. I also have no doubt that good old Tom realized he could focus in on Bethenny and get Lu fired up about her. What better way to distract Lu from focusing on what he did than by pointing her somewhere else? It's classic cheater behavior. Bethenny is often a shrew, but Tom is a lying and clearly skilled POS. I have a feeling it's not his first time at this particular rodeo. Lu deserves better.