The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[NEGirl]

Question - What are the laws regarding home schooling in Ark ?  Don't the kids have to be tested or pass a state test each year ?  Just wondering.... Thanks

[EarlGreyTea]

After watching "All About Jessa" and seeing how close she and Jinger were (past tense...I think they've kind of drifted apart since Jessa got married), I was wondering who of the howlers and lost girls are close.

 

There's John-David and Joseph (not howlers, but go with it) who seem pretty close, or maybe it's by default and JD was actually closer to Josh. Joseph is pretty cute and I bet he will soon be abandoning JD too for the marrieds.

 

Joy Anna's place in the family line-up is fascinating because she was the youngest girl for so long, and she was kind of apart from the older girls until recently. I feel like I read somewhere that she used to be close with some of the boys until she was kind of steered away from them. I like her and Jana together.

 

Hannie and Jennifer seem pretty close. They're both such pretty girls, too. They seem like the Jessa and Jinger of the younger set.

 

Jordyn seems to be with Josie by default, but they too seem close. Is Jordyn the one they ignored when she was hungry and Jackson seemed to step up and get her lukewarm water with oatmeal?

 

Jackson and Justin seem close but for the life of me I can hardly tell them apart. A few years ago Justin was the cutest little boy ever to me.

 

Jed, Jer, and Josiah kind of blend together to me because they're close in age and seem to be kind of the more artistic intellectuals (well, relatively speaking) of the bunch. I'm curious to see where they go.

 

Thoughts? Any pairings I missed?

 

[GEML]

I think the Jer/Jed twins are close, both because of birth happenstance and temperament. I had thought that John David and Joseph were close, but I'll admit, Joseph going to college had thrown me for a loop unless it's a ruse of some kind. Justin and Jackson don't strike me as close, mostly because I don't see a lot of depth in either boy, personally (I'm sorry to type that.)

Edited April 6, 2015 by GEML

[Vaysh]

Jackson was close with Hannie for a good long while and judging from recent episodes and social media he still spends most of his time with his younger sisters rather than with his brothers. I don't know if that's because he feels particularly close to them or because they match his maturity level better. The older brothers don't seem to care much for Jackson, we never see them together.

[Jenniferbug]

I always got the impression that the other little boys had no great liking for Jackson. I think he plays with the girls because they let him. His pairing in talking heads with Justin is probably producer driven rather than because they're close.

[Literata]

I seem to remember Joy and Josiah having been close as littles, back in the days of the first specials. I'm sure all that was forced to change once Joy grew breasts.

[truelovekiss]

I think that when Duggar siblings get married, they kind of ditch their single siblings, unless they need them for something. Josh and JD used to be closer, but once Smuggs landed himself a female, they didn't really hang out as much. Then the M's came along and they moved. Jill has still spent time with her old buddy team, had the lost girls sleep over and had Jana over (to help cook) but it seems like she just likes to lord her status over her siblings. I doubt Jessa is inviting anyone to her house, but since her headship is scrubbing toilets in the TTH I'm guessing she's there a fair bit.

Joy and Josiah were close, and I hope they still are. I've also noticed Joy growing closer to Jana, which is great. I can see them getting along very well.

Jackson and Hannie are like the original Mack and Mike. I think Jackson likes being around his younger sisters more than the older boys because they look up to him and he can have a chance to be a big shot, as opposed to the howlers looking at him as a pest.

JD has grown closer to Joseph, since Josh left. I also really like Josh and Jinger's friendship. When he came back from Alert, she seemed the most excited to see him, it was very sweet. I also watched the episode where Joseph got braces today, and when asked what color he wanted, he said he asked Jinger and they decided together that he should get orange, because it's their favorite color.

[EarlGreyTea]

I think that when Duggar siblings get married, they kind of ditch their single siblings, unless they need them for something. Josh and JD used to be closer, but once Smuggs landed himself a female, they didn't really hang out as much. Then the M's came along and they moved. Jill has still spent time with her old buddy team, had the lost girls sleep over and had Jana over (to help cook) but it seems like she just likes to lord her status over her siblings. I doubt Jessa is inviting anyone to her house, but since her headship is scrubbing toilets in the TTH I'm guessing she's there a fair bit.

That's exactly what I think has happened with Jinger and Jessa. I know that it's inevitable, especially with this group, that some of that closeness is a bit  gone. But it must be devastating to Jinger, especially because she doesn't seem to really be close with any of the others. Jana and Joy are close, and I bet Jinger is a bit left out. It's sad how the unmarried siblings are treated. When she begins to court, I bet Jinger and Jessa will become close again.

[Darknight]

Question - What are the laws regarding home schooling in Ark ? Don't the kids have to be tested or pass a state test each year ? Just wondering.... Thanks

From what I read homeschoolers in Arkansas don't need to pass state test. So parents can legally make their kids dumb.

[GEML]

Of course, I'm not really sure I can say who is close. Other than Jessa and Jinger and the middle twins, I'm to the point where I think so much is manipulated to make the family look good, too look close, that I really don't know what to think.

[charmed1]

I seem to remember Joy and Josiah having been close as littles, back in the days of the first specials. I'm sure all that was forced to change once Joy grew breasts.

Bwah! I just choked on my water.

Thoughts? Any pairings I missed

Well there's James. I guess he's been paired with Jill. Which is kind of like being the odd man out in gym and having to be partners with the teacher.

[3girlsforus]

From what I read homeschoolers in Arkansas don't need to pass state test. So parents can legally make their kids dumb.

They do have to take them but the tests are held for informational purposes. But let's face it, the scads of testing done in public school isn't exactly making today's kids   exceptionally educated. Not justifying the Duggar's attempt at education at all. Just saying that testing is rarely the answer.

[bybrandy]

Jackson and Hannie were very close when they were little.  

For reasons I can't fathom James is my favorite and I always look for him. I've never particularly noticed him pairing up with any of the others.   

[flyingdi]

I just noticed in Jessa`s wedding episode, Jackson said he wanted to go on the honeymoon with them. Come on, Jessa and Ben, sneak him along in your luggage. Get that boy some culture. Let him loose on Paris and see if it survives!

[charmed1]

James is the only one I can recognize because of his brown hair in a sea of blondes. And he gets so many THs to himself.

[flyingdi]

I recognize Jackson because his hair is sort of red and he's hyper. James because he's sarcastic and Josie because she's Josie. Besides that I have trouble telling any of the apart after Jinger.

[charmed1]

Yeah James is definitely the Darlene Connor in that group of Rod and Todd Flanders. His deadpan delivery makes the sarcasm even better.

[MarysWetBar]

http://i.imgur.com/sIDrWNA.jpg

[Fuzzysox]

When the kids were talking about their new jurisdictions, did I hear Josiah say that now that he is old enough to work for his dad.......I don't remember the rest.

 

What does he do? I'd love to know. Hopefully he make enough money that he  can be like JD and get his own house to get away from all the chaos. 

[flyingdi]

For some reason I can totally picture two the girls in this family growing up to be in some sort of "Whatever Happened To Baby Jane?" situation.  Perhaps, Josie and Jana or maybe Jessa and Jill.

[EarlGreyTea]

For some reason I can totally picture two the girls in this family growing up to be in some sort of "Whatever Happened To Baby Jane?" situation.  Perhaps, Josie and Jana or maybe Jessa and Jill.

Oh, Josie and Jordyn FOR SURE. Josie as Baby Jane with all the attention and adulation (who does that sound like) and Jordyn as the resentful sister left in the shadows to care for her ailing sister.

[BitterApple]

I think James is a male version of Jennifer. Both kids know their family is nuts and are silently biding their time until they can head for the hills when they turn 18. It's what makes them so darn likeable.

[Mrsjumbo]

Love the grandma/Paul McCartney photos! I read it on here, then literally LOL when I saw the episode with grandma at Jessa's wedding. Now I can't unsee it!

[JenCarroll]

James is the only one I can recognize because of his brown hair in a sea of blondes. And he gets so many THs to himself.

That's how I can tell which one is Johanna -- darker hair.

[cmr2014]

 

 

When the kids were talking about their new jurisdictions, did I hear Josiah say that now that he is old enough to work for his dad.......I don't remember the rest.

What does he do? I'd love to know. Hopefully he make enough money that he  can be like JD and get his own house to get away from all the chaos.

 

I was wondering about this, too. Is this JBs plan? He's going to put all of his sons (and apparently at least one son-in-law) on the payroll?  Obviously, it's great for him because he has complete control over their lives, and he gets cheap labor, but I can't see how this could be workable long-term. If he had enough property to keep 10 people working full-time, he would have had to put more time and effort into himself over the past few years, and would probably already have employees.

 

Meanwhile, they have very little education, no formal technical training, and no work experience. I can't see one of them hacking any kind of entry-level position anywhere. They won't be able to roll in on Duggar-time, and they won't be able to take endless days off for weddings, births, and staged events for filming. Meanwhile, the baby count at home will begin to expand . . .

[Fuzzysox]

I'm moving my commnets about Joe/Tori here.

Aren't they both really young? Is Tori even 18 yet? I don't see Kelly and Gil pushing Tori out the door?

[EarlGreyTea]

I'm moving my commnets about Joe/Tori here.

Aren't they both really young? Is Tori even 18 yet? I don't see Kelly and Gil pushing Tori out the door?

 

Tori is 19, Joe is 20. Young by mainstream standards to get married, but pretty much on target for their circle to be married. Maybe you're thinking of Carlin, who is 16. Alyssa is 20 and she's already married and pregnant.

 

Tori could do worse than Joseph, I guess. He's definitely the cutest Duggar male, not that that's saying much (looking at you Smuggar and JD).

[Portia]

Grandma's cute, but I don't think she's kidding anyone with that completely dark hair. I'm 50 and color my hair, which is more than 50% gray, but I think there comes an age at which the solid dark hair starts to look a littlle silly. IMHO she's at that point. Am I a horrible person for snarking on Grandma? Does anyone know how old she is? Even if she was still a teen when she had Boob, she's got to be nearly 70 at the youngest, right?

Edited to add: Sir Paul? WAY too old for that ridiculous brown mop of his!

Edited April 11, 2015 by Portia

[kellylovessnark]

Depending on her birthdate, Grandma Duggar is either 73 or 74. Wikipedia put her birth year as 1941. No, she isn't fooling anyone with the haircolor.

Edited April 11, 2015 by kellylovessnark

[phoenix62]

Did she do a better job? Hard to know, honestly. I was watching one of the oldest specials, where they actually showed the SOTDRT, and MEchelle had all the kids, every child old enough to sit, all at the table together while she purported to teach them about bankruptcy law. (Which, it turns out, doesn't mean you go to a bank.) Bankruptcy law, which makes absolutely no sense unless you've already had basic civics, math, and at least some basic economics. Even home economics. The lesson was not appropriate any child there, but what struck me was, she's giving the same lesson to her 16 year old and her 6 year old. How does that work, exactly? What also struck me was, she only had to pretend she understood the topic herself for about a minute to get it filmed, and she wasn't able to.

Of course, that was probably not representative of what their school days looked like when they weren't being filmed, so it's hard to draw any conclusions.

I first became aware of the Duggars watching that special, I thought it was hysterical....of all things to teach kids about, especially young children...bankruptcy law??? I was like...oh, this is the most amazing train wreck right here!! I had to get my kid (who was about 6? He was rather young) to see the train wreck as well...he was dumbfounded. I told him that I probably wasn't the best mother on the face of the earth, but could you imagine living with those poor kids??

I confess, I was hooked from the get-go. I couldn't look away. Now I feel so terrible. Poor kids....

[cereality]

Tori is 19, Joe is 20. Young by mainstream standards to get married, but pretty much on target for their circle to be married. Maybe you're thinking of Carlin, who is 16. Alyssa is 20 and she's already married and pregnant.

 

Tori could do worse than Joseph, I guess. He's definitely the cutest Duggar male, not that that's saying much (looking at you Smuggar and JD).

If Joseph is courting or is in the "get to know you" stage before courting, he's going to have to step up his game way beyond what Josh did. That was 6 yrs ago and Anna was far more desperate to get married and impressed with Duggar attention, so Josh was able to get away with some teleconference phone calls to get to know her and a proposal at some tacky restaurant where he showed up with balloons.

The Bates girls don't seem nearly as desperate even though they are fundie, and I think they expect more. They have Chad around and seem to love him; they know Chad treated Erin like a princess all through the courting process and the proposal was ultimately princess themed with a horse drawn carriage and everything. They've seen Brandon writing poetry for Michaela. So Joseph acting like a doofus and showing up empty handed to take her out to dinner with her siblings a few times and having nothing to talk about at dinner just won't cut it. I can't keep all the Bates girls straight, but that middle section of Bates girls -- Tori, Carlin, Josie, Alyssa -- are pretty spunky and speak their mind. I imagine they like guys who are smart and well spoken, even if they aren't educated in the traditional sense. I imagine if Tori tells you in conversation that her favorite flowers are tulips and you show up with daises, she will call you on it and if your response is "duh I forgot" -- that wouldn't be seen as a positive. I can see why Joseph would like a girl with some personality and some energy, though for the life of me I'm not sure what he brings to the table. He's quiet -- which is fine -- but he doesn't seem like he's quiet just bc she's shy; he seems quiet bc he's got nothing to say and when he says something it's usually goofing around with John David acting like a dork. I don't see that cutting it for Tori, and I view Gil and Kelly as loving parents -- much more than JB and Michelle; if their daughter said to them -- look I know this guy is a family friend, a good Christian etc. but I just can't see a life with him -- I don't think they'd force her in any way. Kelly has even said that beyond the "character" qualities the family looks for, of course the couple needs to have some attraction/heat between them.

[GEML]

When Josh and Anna courted, there wasn't the idea it was for television. Now both the Duggars and the Bates are bitten by the television bug. (Fundy weddings are large, but they are by no means as large as either of theirs have been.) and now both families have enormous expectations about the whole process.

[msblossom]

Haven't the Bates been around the Duggars for 5 plus years? I'm sure Joseph isn't at ease about the process, if he is even in the process of courting Tori, but it's not like he hasn't spent time around her, her siblings and her parents. There's a lot that the families have in common with each other and they know him too. Gil knows his daughters well and if he thinks that Joseph needs to step up his game he won't hesitate to tell him so. I don't think Joseph has anything to worry about.

[GEML]

Again, not convinced it's Joseph....

[BitterApple]

I can't see Gil sending Tori off to live at the crazy farm. If Joe and Tori are courting I wonder if he had to give a strong indication that he would live in TN before Gil gave the okay. In that sense it's a win-win. Tori gets to stay close to her family and Joe gets to jump ship.

[cereality]

I can't see Gil sending Tori off to live at the crazy farm. If Joe and Tori are courting I wonder if he had to give a strong indication that he would live in TN before Gil gave the okay. In that sense it's a win-win. Tori gets to stay close to her family and Joe gets to jump ship.

I'm not even sure if Gil would have to tell Joseph that -- I feel like Tori is outgoing enough that she would/could clarify to him that she has no intention of living in Arkansas with/near his family. Joseph is going to college near the Bates' home and given that it's an unaccredited school that's big in that region -- chances are he could get a job near the Bates' home or in Knoxville or Nashville if he so desired -- i.e. if Tori has decided she's a "city girl" who'd rather live there. I don't think the Bates would feel awkward making that "demand" of Joseph -- they probably don't want Tori being influenced by the Duggar crazy train and think it's best if she only has to see them 1-2x a yr as you would with out of town inlaws; and they've seen guys move to the girls' hometowns before so they wouldn't think it's a revolutionary choice; Chad moved to TN to be with Erin and he didn't even have any tie to TN like attending college there while he courted Erin. This would be a much more "natural" move --just sticking around your college town after graduation, which many young grads do anyway.

[truelovekiss]

I can see Joe being okay with leaving the crazy train in favor of the quirky train. Even though he hasn't displayed as many "over it" tendencies as some of the others, he doesn't seem very attached to them. I think he has some genuine love for his siblings, but Boob and Jchelle have never really made much of a deal about him. While I'm confident that Jilly Muffin is never leaving Arkansas, and Blessa can't afford to, I think Joe would be fine with some biannual visits, with plenty of warning ahead of time.

[Kellyee]

So Josiah is courting: http://www.people.com/article/josiah-duggar-courting-marjorie-Jackson

 

What's up with Jana and John David? Considering how vital it is to this family to be married off, Jana and John David are getting pretty old. I feel worse for Jana, because she's just the family nanny now. At least John David has a job where he gets to leave the house.

[allonsyalice]

They're both quite cute, but good lord please let them wait a couple of years before getting married. 

I'm worried for Jana too. but maybe, like, other posters have said, she's waiting it out so she could have less kids. or maybe she doesn't want to get married. 

[lookeyloo]

So Josiah is courting: http://www.people.com/article/josiah-duggar-courting-marjorie-Jackson

 

What's up with Jana and John David? Considering how vital it is to this family to be married off, Jana and John David are getting pretty old. I feel worse for Jana, because she's just the family nanny now. At least John David has a job where he gets to leave the house.

404 Page Not Found.  What's up with that?  Down already?

[Vaysh]

So Josiah is courting

 

Wow. I just really hope that this will be a loooooong courtship because 18 years old and working for daddy is not what I'd call an ideal husband.

 

Since Josiah is over 18 now is it ok to speculate enough to feel a little paranoid about this early courtship? Because combined with his extremely long stay at ALERT and his flip-phone of shame (to avoid "temptation") it feels like they might be trying to de-gay him. Or at least steer him into the heterosexual fold before anything happens.

[STFUFrank]

404 Page Not Found. What's up with that? Down already?

http://www.people.com/article/josiah-duggar-courting-marjorie-jackson?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag -- Try this. Maybe this link will work.

[auntieminem]

They are way too young to get married hope it is long or failed courtship.  He looks older than 18.

[StaceyNotStacie]

Wow. I just really hope that this will be a loooooong courtship because 18 years old and working for daddy is not what I'd call an ideal husband.

 

Since Josiah is over 18 now is it ok to speculate enough to feel a little paranoid about this early courtship? Because combined with his extremely long stay at ALERT and his flip-phone of shame (to avoid "temptation") it feels like they might be trying to de-gay him. Or at least steer him into the heterosexual fold before anything happens.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I read it was Josiah.  At least we know what the special announcement for Tuesday's show will be.

 

I'm hoping that since he is only 18 and she is 17, this will be a long courtship.  

[dillpickles]

Grandma's cute, but I don't think she's kidding anyone with that completely dark hair. I'm 50 and color my hair, which is more than 50% gray, but I think there comes an age at which the solid dark hair starts to look a littlle silly. IMHO she's at that point. Am I a horrible person for snarking on Grandma? Does anyone know how old she is? Even if she was still a teen when she had Boob, she's got to be nearly 70 at the youngest, right?

Edited to add: Sir Paul? WAY too old for that ridiculous brown mop of his!

I dunno, I don't think someone should have to stop doing what makes them conformable with their hair once they hit a certain age. I don't think she's trying to fool anyone with her hair, she just likes it to be a dark colour.

[Darknight]

17 AND 18. I hope it's a long courtship.

[Fuzzysox]

I admit this news about Josiah shocked me. I totally agree to get him married off before the rumors gets any deeper.

 

Jana what is up with you gurl? 

[truelovekiss]

I also didn't see this coming and it makes me suspicious. I just hope for Josiah and Marjorie's sakes that they are both honestly interested in each other, and this isn't Boob trying to make money, or pressure Josiah into a life he doesn't want. They're so young, I'm hoping they at least make it until she's 20 without marrying. But I think for them to announce a courtship, that means Boob is banking on a wedding for TLC to broadcast within a year.

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

I'll take this news over Jessa being pregnant any day.

Just odd though. Josiah was taking Spanish lessons at the girl's family home? Hmmm

[GEML]

Called it! Well, I thought he might actually be getting to go to college, too, but I knew he'd be the next Duggar up to court. Joseph has no personality whatsoever, and no Bates girl is going to fall for him, and the Duggars want to get Josiah married QUICKLY.

Edited April 13, 2015 by GEML