The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[3girlsforus]

they almost seem against privacy. It definitely doesn't seem like something they value at all. 

[Vaysh]

 

they almost seem against privacy. It definitely doesn't seem like something they value at all.

 

They are against privacy, hence the ever present accountability partners. Apparently, if you're alone at any time you will immediately break rules and commit "sins" so you can't ever be alone. Classic cult behaviour.

 

My best friend almost got caught in a cult disguising as a charity, some 15 years ago (fortunately she had a good enough head on her shoulders to get away from the compound before they'd managed to brainwash her like they did to some of her fellow "charity workers") and the thing that stood out in her description of that place was that she was never ever left alone. They shared sleeping quarters, they ate together, they worked together, they spent all of their precious little free time together and they were "encouraged" to share every thought in their head with each other and with their leaders. Total lack of privacy, public confessions and tattling disguised as "sharing troubles", lots of hard work, constant feeling of always being watched. Sound familiar?

 

Even if Boob and Mechelle didn't consciously attempt to recreate a cult environment, they sure managed to do so anyway.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Vaysh

[GEML]

Yes, privacy is just a way for parents to lose control over children. That's very much against Gothardism. But only the Duggars took it to such an extreme as to build an entire house around such an ideology.

[cmr2014]

Sorry, this is a bit off of what everyone has been talking about, but something has been bugging me. What do they DO all day? I know that the J'slaves are cooking and cleaning and minding children all day, and the older boys are "working," but what about the Howlers and the Lost Girls? Not to mention JB and J'chelle.

 

They wake up at 10 or 11 and wander around for a while until they get some food. Then, I would imagine that they have a couple of hours of "homefooling" in the afternoon. Then what? They don't seem to play -- they don't go outside, and they don't really seem to have toys. I don't see dolls, or Legos, or board games, or puzzles. I did see all of the little ones playing with a large ball once.

 

They don't read books, or watch television, or listen to music, or surf the internet. They aren't involved in any outside sports or activities. When they do those TLC staged activities like the horseback riding or the "pizza night," the kids all seem to have a lot of fun, and find it all very novel. But, when the cameras aren't on, I just can't imagine what they're doing all day.

[Apple Clark]

To some extent I understand the Internet rule, as far as the younger kids go. But blocking websites or monitoring or whatever they do for the older kids makes me sick. The reading thing is what makes me want to hurl brick at their faces though. Every child should be allowed to read a damned book. They read the Bible yes, but what about just pure fictional stories about fairies and wizards, or more modern fiction like John Green novels for the J'Slaves and the older guys? Have they ever read Alice in Wonderland? Probably not, but the only reason I can think of why not, is because of the Mad Hatter (the best fucking character). Probably never read Anne of Green Gables she cracked a slate over someone's head and had a personality. They are missing out on some amazing books that they will probably never even hear about because of their parents. It also makes me sad that none of the kids have ever seen a Disney/Pixar movie. Toy Story is awesome, and they will be the few kids that don't try to sneak up on their toys, because they thought will never cross their minds that "They might really move!". It makes me sad that they have to mope around their house bored, never crying over a book, jamming out to their favorite song, re-watching a movie for the umpteenth time, just doing normal innocent kid things. They're missing out on a lot, but it's the little things they're missing out on that makes me so angry and sad.

[ChocolateAddict]

That is what drives me nuts about the Duggars.  There is no structured play or routine in their house.  It wouldn't be that hard to set up hide and seek or painting or making cubby-houses with all those tables and chairs.  Me'chelle could literally get a bunch of them together, tell them that they will play tip outside and then sit on her butt and watch them.  Wouldn't be that hard.  

 

Not only do they do dodgy homeschooling but they don't even have educational games for the kids.  Playing spelling games, play timetables games do something that will stimulate their minds!  

[Shugardrawers]

My granddaughter is not an "early riser" but has to get up to go to school. (Even though my daughter in law is a teacher she won't home school). Granddaughter takes a shower at night and gets into clean clothes and sleeps in them and this cuts down on misery in the morning. Even with an early bedtime she doesn't really wake up til mid morning.

 

Grandma D may sleep in to avoid some of the madness but HOW????  That constant screaming and yelling would drive me to either serial killer of suicidal proportions!  

 

One other thing that's made me wonder throughout the years.....is this form a religion one taught to JB by his mother or is it one JB forces his mother to conform to since she's merely a woman?

 

Here's another!  It would appear that the older girls have the majority of responsibility for the household:  i.e. raising children, "educating" them and caring for the household.  Yet they can't be trusted to choose a life partner?  It's pretty obvious daddi-o chooses their husbands for them because he wants to "guard and protect their heart"  (WHERE have I heard that before.......) yet it's ok to trust them to raise his (Boob's) children, cook, clean and teach the children?

[dillpickles]

What if JD is living in sin at his own home, and that's why he's not really trying for a courtship? Maybe he has a girlf- oh yeah right. The most he did was find out what a ps4 is, if anything.

[Gianthambeast]

 

... Then what? They don't seem to play -- they don't go outside, and they don't really seem to have toys. I don't see dolls, or Legos, or board games, or puzzles. I did see all of the little ones playing with a large ball once.

 

They don't read books, or watch television, or listen to music, or surf the internet. They aren't involved in any outside sports or activities. When they do those TLC staged activities like the horseback riding or the "pizza night," the kids all seem to have a lot of fun, and find it all very novel. But, when the cameras aren't on, I just can't imagine what they're doing all day.

I also wonder how much of it has to do with Jim Blob's cheapness.  He only seems willing to provide educational/recreational activities when TLC foots the bill.  God forbid any of them should want to go to a real college and pay tuition. 

[Barb23]

I do remember seeing the little kids work on a puzzle. Of course it wasn't size/age appropriate. It looked like a 1,000 piece puzzle with all the tiny pieces, so I'm thinking it was all for show- another FU internet moment.

Like Chocolate Addict commented on - we never see any educational type of games being played. Even cooking something simple can be a learning experience. What we do see is the Howlers licking chocolate off the counter.

I'm still waiting to see them drive the Derby cars they made thru the house. I will never forget the episode showing one of the Lost girls riding a full size kids bike in the dining room, squeezing between the wall & her siblings seated at the table doing their Home Foolin. I guess it was Recess for her. Another Duggar toy I like is the pair of crutches that one of Howlers favors. I guess I should give him credit for playing with something, that's probably all he could find to play with.

[GEML]

As you all say, so little of their play seems to involve creative/building/nurturing (Legos, drawing, stuffed toys or dolls) and so much seems chaotic or destructive (sling shots, shooting, smashing riding toys into each other.)

We know they have at least some "positive" toys like dolls and games (the one boy plays chess) but they don't seem integrated into the daily play. I don't think there is anything wrong with "destructive" play per se, as long as it's part of a larger picture. We either aren't seeing or they aren't doing that more rounded practice. I'm sure with so many boys all at once it required a firm hand, but all the more reason it needed to be done.

[JoanArc]

They never play 'imagination' games either. No dress-up. Cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, pretend superheroes (not that they know them), knights saving a princess, etc. God forbid they identify with anyone other than Arkansas' two biggest weenies. God forbid they have imaginations.

Edited March 27, 2015 by JoanArc

[GEML]

Imagination games are a no-no. I wouldn't expect that.

[JoanArc]

Oh, I can see why. Imagine a world where your parents aren't controlling you!

 

And by extension - never read anything significant, other than the bible.

[Literata]

 

Imagination games are a no-no. I wouldn't expect that.

In an older episode, one of the howler girls said something about unicorns, and Grandma was quick to remind her, "No, no unicorns -- we don't talk about unicorns."

They're evil, I assume, with their phallic horns and all.

[JoanArc]

Lol, the unicorn is part of the KJV bible. Did Grandma duggar just subvert the word of God? ;)

[Literata]

 

the unicorn is part of the KJV bible

I had no idea. I wonder, then, why the freak-out on Grandma's part.

[CarolMK]

I agree that Jim Bob is a cheapskate through and through. I think I read awhile ago that the one reason that the Duggars used to get together to play broomball on Friday nights is because they were allowed to use the skating rink for free. Up until TLC had parties for the kids, the family had never once gone bowling or roller skating..I remember this because when James had the bowling party at 9 years old, they were asked who had bowled before and the only ones who raised their hands were Anna and Michelle, I think. Yes, it can be expensive when you have a lot of kids, but there are coupons and specials run by these places, surely the Duggars could have made bowling or skating a twice a year excursion for the family. When I remember how he said that he spent $100,000 on his failed run for Senate back in 2002 (or was it 2000) and there were 15 of them jammed into that small 3 bedroom , 2 bath house, you can see where his priorities lay..with himself and Michelle, not his kids.

[JoanArc]

 When I remember how he said that he spent $100,000 on his failed run for Senate back in 2002 (or was it 2000) and there were 15 of them jammed into that small 3 bedroom , 2 bath house, you can see where his priorities lay..with himself and Michelle, not his kids.

 

I looked it up - $250,000. A QUARTER MIL. And he claims to be financially responsible. If my husband made us scrimp and save for nearly 20 years, gave me over 10 kids, and pissed away all that hard saved money on a vanity campaign, I'd get a divorce.

 

The campaign got them noticed tough, which ended up getting the TV show, so there's that. Oops..I mean God, God gave them the TV show ministry.

[Literata]

 

I looked it up - $250,000. A QUARTER MIL.

My guess is that came from Gothard's coffers, as Boob would have been a de facto representative of the cult.

[andromeda331]

Did Grandma duggar just subvert the word of God? ;)

 

 

 JimBob and Michelle do that all of the time.

[GinnyLee]

Regarding laundry, I'll bet half of it is towels, not just for bathing, but for toweling all that long hair.  Can you imagine if all the Duggar girls wash their hair every day or every other day.  Just that takes a ton of bath towels.  

 

Of course, now that I think about it, none of them look like they wash their hair every day.  

 

 

As you all say, so little of their play seems to involve creative/building/nurturing (Legos, drawing, stuffed toys or dolls) and so much seems chaotic or destructive (sling shots, shooting, smashing riding toys into each other.)

We know they have at least some "positive" toys like dolls and games (the one boy plays chess) but they don't seem integrated into the daily play. I don't think there is anything wrong with "destructive" play per se, as long as it's part of a larger picture. We either aren't seeing or they aren't doing that more rounded practice. I'm sure with so many boys all at once it required a firm hand, but all the more reason it needed to be done.

 

There's something wrong with a house that has/had 9 daughters and no dollhouse. They have dolls, but I've never seen a dollhouse. (Maybe I'm just oversensitive about dollhouses because my brother destroyed mine when we were kids. He rammed one of 70's style wooden banister poles through the darn thing. I cried for weeks. It was 32-35 years ago but I still remind him of it.) With 9 daughters you have to have a big dollhouse and/or palace. They always appear to have constructive jobs going on so why not build Josie, Jenny, Jordan and Johanna a big dollhouse. It's what I would do if they were my daughters. Well that's my rant for the day.

[JoanArc]

My guess is that came from Gothard's coffers, as Boob would have been a de facto representative of the cult.

 

It was all his own cash. I doubt Gothard funds runs for office, and don't finances have to be disclosed?

 

I'm not sure how much the state senate campaign cost Jim Bob - could be where that $100,000 figure comes from.

 

RE Dolls:

 

http://www.pfo.org/bgothard.htm

 

 

Gothard has published even more claims about Cabbage Patch Kids since that first letter. His January 1996 Basic Care Newsletter from his Medical Training Institute defines the potential of the once-popular dolls. The publication stated that there are a core of midwives that are working against “Satan’s program from Genesis to Revelation to destroy the Godly seed.” This report endorsed by Gothard and his organization then describes “cleansing the home from evil influences.” The midwives searched the homes for Cabbage Patch Kids dolls and Troll dolls. They believed the destruction of these facilitated the births. Just having these items in the home retarded a speedy delivery, said the newsletter. Attributing this much power to a doll goes beyond the pale of reason and lapses into pagan superstition.

Edited March 27, 2015 by JoanArc

[GEML]

Back then the state senate race probably was in the $50K range. Gothard would have supplied people to work as volunteers (often more valuable than money, and less traceable to a common source) but probably small sums.

But the Senate race was a huge blow to Jim Bob. He's still never recovered from it. NO ONE goes into politics thinking they will lose, and Jim Bob would have gone in thinking that God would bless him and expect him to be in DC. The loss would have been devastating.

I can actually see Michelle working out "But we got the TV show out of!" better than Jim Bob. Because he still lost. And the loss soured relationships with political families in AR that continues to this day.

[Wellfleet]

Back then the state senate race probably was in the $50K range. Gothard would have supplied people to work as volunteers (often more valuable than money, and less traceable to a common source) but probably small sums.

But the Senate race was a huge blow to Jim Bob. He's still never recovered from it. NO ONE goes into politics thinking they will lose, and Jim Bob would have gone in thinking that God would bless him and expect him to be in DC. The loss would have been devastating.

I can actually see Michelle working out "But we got the TV show out of!" better than Jim Bob. Because he still lost. And the loss soured relationships with political families in AR that continues to this day.

 

So the Senate race Boob lost was for the US Senate?? Yikes, I didn't realize that. Thought it was a state-level office. I'm surprised Boob was so devastated though. Unless he had virtually no professional political operatives on his staff, there had to be at least a few people - maybe even polling - telling him that his stances on a lot of issues were making him unelectable, even in Arkansas. Or maybe he ran a one-note campaign - abortion for example? And now that I think about it, his "staff" probably consisted of his kids and a few fundie friends that stuffed envelopes...

[Literata]

 

And now that I think about it, his "staff" probably consisted of his kids and a few fundie friends that stuffed envelopes...

IIRC, Josh, who was a young teenager at the time, was working for him ... as was, I imagine, anyone else who would work for free.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Literata

[HeyNow]

They never play 'imagination' games either. No dress-up. Cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, pretend superheroes (not that they know them), knights saving a princess, etc. God forbid they identify with anyone other than Arkansas' two biggest weenies. God forbid they have imaginations.

This is the real heartbreaker for me.  In my world here, their world is Bizarro World, complete opposite.  I can't even imagine (and I have a good imagination!) what that kind of life/existance would be like.

[Vaysh]

 

Imagination games are a no-no. I wouldn't expect that.

Why are imagination games a no-no? I suppose I'd understand it if they involved playing Harry Potter or something (there was a ruckus regarding a private fundie Christian school over here who banned Harry Potter because... I don't know, magic = evil  and they were incapable of separating fiction from reality? so I'm aware of that mindset) but does this thinking extend to imagination games of all kinds, even those not involving anything supernatural? I remember playing Robin Hood, Indians, Narnia, Ivanhoe and all sorts of imaginary adventure games and having a wonderful time when I was little and it's such a shame if the Duggar kids aren't allowed to do that.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Vaysh

[GEML]

Imagination puts them outside of their parents' control, and anything outside of a parents' control is forbidden in Gothard's world. Remember, what Gothard promises is children who won't rebel. Imaginative children are children more likely to ask questions a parent can't answer (even harmless questions, but why take the risk?) and imagine themselves in a world without their parents and doing ok.

For instance, think of how many stories out there involve being an orphan. And how many of those stories end up not only ok, but better than ok. What if one if one of the Duggar children started imagining they were orphaned? And instead of thinking it was the scariest, worst possible thing possible, it turned their lives around a la ANNE OF GREEN GABLES?

Really, it's just better for everyone if you read only the dull books on the curriculum and never imagine anything differently.

[pinguina]

This lack of interest/opportunity/disdain for reading is just so wrong to me.  I love getting lost in a book and growing up I went everywhere and everywhen by reading a book!  There are so much good literature and such a wonderful variety of books that can spark the imagination.  I tell my students that a book is better than any movie because you can make the pictures in your head better than any movie can.  This lack of interest in literature makes the children in this family poorer.  My niece was in second grade last year and we were discussing (yes, she can have a discussion about good books!) "The Little Princess".  As we compared out favorite parts and how they made us feel sad, happy, nervous; she said, "Sometimes I forget that the people in the book are not real and I wonder what happens to them next." (overly proud aunt of her insightful currently eight year old niece). The children and twenty-somethings in this family have lost so much by being denied access to so many wonderful stories. I don't know how they can be unaware of "The Wizard of Oz" "Hardy Boys" "Wind in the Willows" "Winnie the Pooh" "Paddington" "Chronicles of Narnia" and so many more!!  This lack on curiosity about what is between the covers of books is just (to me, at least) so many kinds of wrong.

[Chai]

I agree that Jim Bob is a cheapskate through and through. I think I read awhile ago that the one reason that the Duggars used to get together to play broomball on Friday nights is because they were allowed to use the skating rink for free. Up until TLC had parties for the kids, the family had never once gone bowling or roller skating..I remember this because when James had the bowling party at 9 years old, they were asked who had bowled before and the only ones who raised their hands were Anna and Michelle, I think. Yes, it can be expensive when you have a lot of kids, but there are coupons and specials run by these places, surely the Duggars could have made bowling or skating a twice a year excursion for the family. When I remember how he said that he spent $100,000 on his failed run for Senate back in 2002 (or was it 2000) and there were 15 of them jammed into that small 3 bedroom , 2 bath house, you can see where his priorities lay..with himself and Michelle, not his kids.

Exactly! This has always bugged me. He can spend that on a Senate bid and let his family live that way is unbelievable! What about Michelle? How about her not saying you (aren't saving 100,000 for yourself) when we don't have a big enough house that even  $20 000 would qualify them for  anything bigger than what they had. Although they didn't want debt... but using that kind of money for yourself... debt would be the lesser of two evils.

[Hpmec]

Arkansas must have extremely lax requirements for granting high school diplomas to homeschooled students. How can kids who've never read a work of literature graduate from high school? At the Creation Museum they learned that dinosaurs co-existed with humans, so it's safe to say that their science and history education is lacking, too. And James is way behind in math as evidenced by Jill's multiplication flash cards. Boob and J'chelle are so fixated on shielding their kids from the world, that they are holding their brains hostage. It's tragic.

[Gianthambeast]

Exactly! This has always bugged me. He can spend that on a Senate bid and let his family live that way is unbelievable! What about Michelle? How about her not saying you (aren't saving 100,000 for yourself) when we don't have a big enough house that even  $20 000 would qualify them for  anything bigger than what they had. Although they didn't want debt... but using that kind of money for yourself... debt would be the lesser of two evils.

As long as JimBlob is living his dreams nobody else needs to have any.  Fulfillment is only for him because he's SPECIAL.

[Wellfleet]

As long as JimBlob is living his dreams nobody else needs to have any.  Fulfillment is only for him because he's SPECIAL.

 

He's special, all right. Reminds me of a line Stewie Griffin says on Family Guy when another character has referred to a developmentally-challenged child as "special."  Stewie says, "Well, yes, I think that's how the state of Rhode Island would see him..." 

[Jenniferbug]

So is the no reading a Gothard thing or a Jim Bob and Michelle thing? I occasionally get bored and check out some of their fundie friends' Pinterest pages. The Bontrager girls pin things about Jane Austen novels and Anne of Green Gables frequently. Anna Hackel (one of Jessa's bridesmaids) has pinned things about Sherlock. Are their families not followers of Gothard?

[Barb23]

There's something wrong with a house that has/had 9 daughters and no dollhouse. They have dolls, but I've never seen a dollhouse. (Maybe I'm just oversensitive about dollhouses because my brother destroyed mine when we were kids. He rammed one of 70's style wooden banister poles through the darn thing. I cried for weeks. It was 32-35 years ago but I still remind him of it.) With 9 daughters you have to have a big dollhouse and/or palace. They always appear to have constructive jobs going on so why not build Josie, Jenny, Jordan and Johanna a big dollhouse. It's what I would do if they were my daughters. Well that's my rant for the day.

  

That is a great idea about them building a doll house. TLC are you paying attention?

I guess for obvious reasons, Barbies are out for the girls. Especially when they end up naked, laying in a box somewhere. I loved playing Barbies growing up. My friend's grandma showed us all different ways of turning little boxes & things into furnishings for Barbie. Such nice memories.....

Arkansas must have extremely lax requirements for granting high school diplomas to homeschooled students. How can kids who've never read a work of literature graduate from high school? At the Creation Museum they learned that dinosaurs co-existed with humans, so it's safe to say that their science and history education is lacking, too. And James is way behind in math as evidenced by Jill's multiplication flash cards. Boob and J'chelle are so fixated on shielding their kids from the world, that they are holding their brains hostage. It's tragic.

Don't they get GEDs & not actual high school diplomas? There is no way they could pass the tests our high schoolers take here in Maryland to graduate.

[GEML]

Gothard encourages no reading. But most families get at least one or two really committed readers. And they are hard to stop. So you guide their reading as best you can. That there isn't, to my knowledge, a single reader in the Duggars, really really odd and vaguely chilling.

[Hpmec]

I would love to see the Arkansas GED exam, which, by the way, got turned over to a private company and requires payment of a fee. It must be incredibly dumbed down if a Duggar could pass it, and, no doubt, not worth the paper it's written on.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Hpmec

[GEML]

Only some of the kids have the GED.

[kaleidoscope]

Our state requires all 8th graders and 12th graders to pass a Constitution test.  It is a requirement for graduation.  I question whether any of the kids (or Jim Bob and Michelle) could do this.

Edited March 28, 2015 by kaleidoscope

[msblossom]

Only some of the kids have the GED.

Which of the kids from Joy on up don't have a GED?

That's criminal, IMO.

[JoanArc]

Which of the kids from Joy on up don't have a GED?

That's criminal, IMO.

The GED is now (2015) a much harder test than previous versions, too. There's some speculation that the kids get the GED's from fly-by-night diploma mills that can call it a GED, but isn't really one. I belive that.

 

GED's only cover up through 9th grade. Totally criminal.

[jmt111]

Hm. I think I'll re-read Anne of Green Gables. What a great series.

[msblossom]

The GED is now (2015) a much harder test than previous versions, too. There's some speculation that the kids get the GED's from fly-by-night diploma mills that can call it a GED, but isn't really one. I belive that.

 

GED's only cover up through 9th grade. Totally criminal.

I would love to see someone contact the State of AR Board of Education and notify them. Denying a child the right of a legitimate education is both child abuse/neglect and criminal. This shouldn't be tolerated. It's morally wrong, IMO.

[andromeda331]

Agree so much about the books, dollhouses and toys. Their kids they should have toys, books and be allowed to have an imagination. There are so many great books, so many fun toys and so many fun pretend games to play. I want to smack JimBob and Michelle for denying their kids so much. Not to mention my parents always had so much fun buying toys for their kids and playing with the toys with their kids. And now they currently have so much fun picking out toys for their grandson to play with him. Half of it is the fun playing with your own kid and the other half is the fun of playing with all the cool toys kids have these days. It makes me mad they won't let them read books or play normal kid games. It makes me sad these kids have never played the normal kid games with their parents. 

[Mrsjumbo]

I was of the generation where parents did not play with their kids. However, we did have toys to play with siblings or friends & I was the only one that loved to read in the house. My mom bought a set of Junior Classics books for me- loved them!

[flyingdi]

I would love to see someone contact the State of AR Board of Education and notify them. Denying a child the right of a legitimate education is both child abuse/neglect and criminal. This shouldn't be tolerated. It's morally wrong, IMO.

I don't disagree with any of this but I would think the Arkansas Board of Education already knows as much as we do.  The Duggars are not exactly keeping it secret.

[Wellfleet]

I would love to see someone contact the State of AR Board of Education and notify them. Denying a child the right of a legitimate education is both child abuse/neglect and criminal. This shouldn't be tolerated. It's morally wrong, IMO.

 

Don't homeschooling parents, regardless of state, eventually have to PROVE they actually educated their children? And wouldn't that proof have to be whether or not the child can pass the same minimum educational testing that any publicly-schooled child is required to pass? I guess I can understand the 9th grade level thing, since in most states I think that's the earliest a kid could drop-out. How do the Duggars get away with this crud?? And I think it's pretty much unique to the Duggars and not other homeschooling families, not even other fundie home-schoolers. I've worked in the lower primary grades throughout my career and have little experience with homeschooled children entering a "traditional" school environment. But everything I've heard from other teachers indicates that many times the home-schooled children are ahead of public kids by leaps and bounds. I don't think I've ever heard a single story about home-schoolers having a difficult time adjusting academically.

[Darknight]

Did Bob really think he'll win. He's selfish and just goes to shows that it's all about him. Spending 250k on yourself when your family is poor and starving.

I don't disagree with any of this but I would think the Arkansas Board of Education already knows as much as we do. The Duggars are not exactly keeping it secret.

It's not that hard to homeschool in Arkansas. They don't even require kids to pass tests. So people Luke the Duggars can get away with uneducated children.

[Quof]

I was of the generation where parents did not play with their kids.

 

Me too. We played with siblings, and other kids in the neighbourhood.  Of course, we were allowed to go places like the playground without a parent helicoptering overhead.