The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[Jynnan tonnix]

5 minutes ago, truebluesmoky said:

I am sure the 20 is counting Tyler, because any miscarriages would not be counted in a “survived by” total. Based on social media and the show itself, it seems to me that one of the only things JimBob and Michelle have done right in their lives is to fully embrace Tyler as another son, make him feel fully part of their family, and make him feel secure and loved. That doesn’t make up for all the harm they’ve to many of their other children, but I do think they’re doing right by Tyler.

Si and Lauren posted this...

 

It just occurs to me that if life begins at conception and a 6 week embryo is every bit a baby as those already born, there should be no actual reason for not counting all those imminent Grand-Duggars in with the "survived by's"

[truebluesmoky]

1 minute ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

It just occurs to me that if life begins at conception and a 6 week embryo is every bit a baby as those already born, there should be no actual reason for not counting all those imminent Grand-Duggars in with the "survived by's"

Well, in their minds, they were fully people, they just passed away. “Survived by” is for people that are still alive. All the miscarriages could have been added to “predeceased by” (or whatever the wording is in obituaries).

[BitterApple]

21 minutes ago, truebluesmoky said:

I am sure the 20 is counting Tyler, because any miscarriages would not be counted in a “survived by” total. Based on social media and the show itself, it seems to me that one of the only things JimBob and Michelle have done right in their lives is to fully embrace Tyler as another son, make him feel fully part of their family, and make him feel secure and loved. That doesn’t make up for all the harm they’ve done to many of their other children, but I do think they’re doing right by Tyler.

Si and Lauren posted this...

Ah yes, of course Lauren couldn't resist the opportunity to remind everyone she miscarried. How unbelievably tacky. 

[Lisa418722]

Amy's post is the one that broke my heart because Mary was more than the grandmother who did her laundry.  I liked Jinger's and the simplicity of Joy's. Sometimes you say more with the fewest words.  Jill's seemed to be like "I have to post first" and didn't really put any real thought into it.  Lauren still has to make it all about Me.  Anna's didn't stick with me, I can't really tell you what she said. 
My dad died of cancer and I admit before the end I was praying for his death. Not because I wanted him to die, but because I didn't want him to suffer.  My mom (if she's given her choice) wants to go quickly.  I have to agree with that. 
Rest in Peace Grandma Mary, you deserve it. 

[3 is enough]

9 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Ah yes, of course Lauren couldn't resist the opportunity to remind everyone she miscarried. How unbelievably tacky. 

I really wish we had either an angry face or a puke face to react to posts.  

Not only tacky, but extremely narcissistic. Oh Lauren, not everything is about you.

Edited June 10, 2019 by 3 is enough

[MargeGunderson]

38 minutes ago, truebluesmoky said:

I am sure the 20 is counting Tyler, because any miscarriages would not be counted in a “survived by” total. Based on social media and the show itself, it seems to me that one of the only things JimBob and Michelle have done right in their lives is to fully embrace Tyler as another son, make him feel fully part of their family, and make him feel secure and loved. That doesn’t make up for all the harm they’ve done to many of their other children, but I do think they’re doing right by Tyler.

Si and Lauren posted this...

I have so many thoughts about this post, and none of them are amazing or sweet. Lauren is that annoying person in your life that has to 1) make everything about them and 2) has to one-up you at every turn. No one is going to be as pro-life as Lauren, gosh darn it, she's going to trot out her heavy period at every opportunity. 

(Genuinely, only compassion for people who miscarry or otherwise lose a child, but if Lauren didn't pee on a stick every hour on the hour since the moment she and Si had sex, she wouldn't even have known she was pregnant. She is exhausting.)

[PradaKitty]

The moment I heard about Mary’s death I immediately thought of Amy. I think she is the one that is going to be hit hardest by Mary’s death. Jim Blob will make a big show of his “grief” but Amy is the one who will really suffer the loss. 

[humbleopinion]

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/grandma-mary-duggar-dies-at-73-counting-on-stars-pay-tribute/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation

 Warning: The article has a picture of Grandma Mary with Anna's family and grossest husband.

Edited June 10, 2019 by humbleopinion

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, Trillium said:

Poor Grandma Mary, who instead of enjoying her retirement had to spend her golden years doing 10 loads of laundry a day because her son is a self-righteous dick. 

She was the mastermind behind the the Duggar empire, according to the person who first told us about Josh, so she seemed to be living the life she wanted.

[Lunera]

[Annb67]

1 hour ago, truebluesmoky said:

I am sure the 20 is counting Tyler, because any miscarriages would not be counted in a “survived by” total. Based on social media and the show itself, it seems to me that one of the only things JimBob and Michelle have done right in their lives is to fully embrace Tyler as another son, make him feel fully part of their family, and make him feel secure and loved. That doesn’t make up for all the harm they’ve done to many of their other children, but I do think they’re doing right by Tyler.

Si and Lauren posted this...

Oh my god... shut up lauren. 

[Temperance]

Regarding Grandma Mary and religion, JB and Michelle talked about it in the Youth for Christ Conference. This was the video from a conference in February, where Jim Bob and Michelle  It was at the very end about 3 hours and 2 minutes in. (Since I had an idea of where in the video it was, I'm watching that part again.) They were asked "Who was the biggest influence in your lives?"

Michelle starts with Jesus  (he's #1), but also JimBob's mother who is a Godly role model for Michelle, and she has a real heart for God. Michelle uses Proverbs 11:30 "he that winneth souls is wise"  to describe her mother-in law. "Mary is a soul winner and she has a heart to see other people come to know Jesus Christ. And so she genuinely cares about everybody from the post office person to the grocery store helper or whatever; she's connecting and asking them about their spiritual condition and how they would know if they stood before God would they go to heaven?"  Direct quote from the video by Michelle.

JB also says that mom "pointed him to Jesus... She's somebody that would thank the lord when things were going good or she would thank the lord when things are going bad. And scripture talks about how all things work together for good. If that's really true, if all things do work together for good, what she believes is that we need to thank the lord even for the things that seemingly are bad at because God's promised he's going to work that for good in the end. ... Mom had that spirit of gratefulness towards God...."

After that Michelle talks about the strokes as evidence of Mary's positive spirit. Both occured in December and seem to have been minor. 

I have to admit this more Godly image of Mary, goes with the theory that she was somewhat behind the Duggars rise to fame and reality television. It's fits with the original vision of the nth Kids and Counting shows* that show would be a ministry to teach the unGodly masses about Jesus and religion. If Mary saw television as a platform for ministry, it might explain why she wanted her son and grandchildren to do the show. 

She does seem to be a kind person and a loving mother/grandmother.  She seemed particularly to close Amy. I feel for the family at this time. Loss is difficult. 

*Originally the show was called 17 Kids and Counting and changed as they had more kids. The special started with 14 kids and pregnant again. 

[65mickey]

3 hours ago, louannems said:

According to the Duggarling's statements regarding Grandma Mary, she was a huge, constant god-botherer who told everyone she met to turn from sin!  I've always had a pretty good impression of her and sure hope the kids are just blathering their usual jesusy words.

I noticed that too. Both Jill and Anna made a point of saying that she always encouraged people to turn away from sin and seek forgiveness from Jesus. I thought that was a weird thing to say about Mrs. Duggar. 

[65mickey]

Oh even more strange Michelle says that Gramma Duggar went around asking people about their spiritual condition and would they know if they stood before God would they go to heaven? I've known religious people in my life from my devout Catholic grandmother and a Church of God coworker but never had anyone ask me about my spiritual condition. Not knowing Grandma Duggar can't say if the picture they are painting of her as a spiritual busybody is an accurate one or not. She didn't seem like that from the few times I saw her on the show.  RIP Mary Duggar. 

[Adeejay]

My condolences.  May she rest in peace. My first thought when I heard, was sadly, she will never get to meet Amy's child.  In her most recent pictures, she looked frail and gaunt.  Glad she did not suffer.  

[heckkitty]

2 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

I am sure the 20 is counting Tyler, because any miscarriages would not be counted in a “survived by” total. Based on social media and the show itself, it seems to me that one of the only things JimBob and Michelle have done right in their lives is to fully embrace Tyler as another son, make him feel fully part of their family, and make him feel secure and loved. That doesn’t make up for all the harm they’ve done to many of their other children, but I do think they’re doing right by Tyler.

Si and Lauren posted this...

Oh, FFS.

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, truebluesmoky said:

Well, in their minds, they were fully people, they just passed away. “Survived by” is for people that are still alive. All the miscarriages could have been added to “predeceased by” (or whatever the wording is in obituaries).

That's what I mean, though...The babies in the womb are still alive, and fully people, so why wouldn't they be counted as people who survived her? I know it's just sort of semantics, but it was just something that struck me that one would think including those babies would be more consistent with their beliefs.

[FizzyPuff]

58 minutes ago, lascuba said:

She was the mastermind behind the the Duggar empire, according to the person who first told us about Josh, so she seemed to be living the life she wanted.

She wanted to be washing her sons and his wife and his 19 kids laundry! I highly doubt that.

45 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Regarding Grandma Mary and religion, JB and Michelle talked about it in the Youth for Christ Conference. This was the video from a conference in February, where Jim Bob and Michelle  It was at the very end about 3 hours and 2 minutes in. (Since I had an idea of where in the video it was, I'm watching that part again.) They were asked "Who was the biggest influence in your lives?"

Michelle starts with Jesus  (he's #1), but also JimBob's mother who is a Godly role model for Michelle, and she has a real heart for God. Michelle uses Proverbs 11:30 "he that winneth souls is wise"  to describe her mother-in law. "Mary is a soul winner and she has a heart to see other people come to know Jesus Christ. And so she genuinely cares about everybody from the post office person to the grocery store helper or whatever; she's connecting and asking them about their spiritual condition and how they would know if they stood before God would they go to heaven?"  Direct quote from the video by Michelle.

JB also says that mom "pointed him to Jesus... She's somebody that would thank the lord when things were going good or she would thank the lord when things are going bad. And scripture talks about how all things work together for good. If that's really true, if all things do work together for good, what she believes is that we need to thank the lord even for the things that seemingly are bad at because God's promised he's going to work that for good in the end. ... Mom had that spirit of gratefulness towards God...."

After that Michelle talks about the strokes as evidence of Mary's positive spirit. Both occured in December and seem to have been minor. 

I have to admit this more Godly image of Mary, goes with the theory that she was somewhat behind the Duggars rise to fame and reality television. It's fits with the original vision of the nth Kids and Counting shows* that show would be a ministry to teach the unGodly masses about Jesus and religion. If Mary saw television as a platform for ministry, it might explain why she wanted her son and grandchildren to do the show. 

She does seem to be a kind person and a loving mother/grandmother.  She seemed particularly to close Amy. I feel for the family at this time. Loss is difficult. 

*Originally the show was called 17 Kids and Counting and changed as they had more kids. The special started with 14 kids and pregnant again. 

I know we didn’t see much of grandma Mary on the show so we didn’t know her but I wouldn’t put it past the Duggars to be lying about her god bothering ways. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Puffin

[lascuba]

2 minutes ago, Puffin said:

She wanted to be washing her sons and his wife and his 19 kids laundry! I highly doubt that.

I know we didn’t see much of grandma Mary on the show so we didn’t know her but I wouldn’t put it past the Duggars to be lying about her god bothering ways. 

She wanted to tie herself to her son's megafamily for the fame. Scenes of her doing their laundry--and lets be real, it's highly unlikely that she was doing much laundry off camera--is part of that.

[FizzyPuff]

3 minutes ago, lascuba said:

She wanted to tie herself to her son's megafamily for the fame. Scenes of her doing their laundry--and lets be real, it's highly unlikely that she was doing much laundry off camera--is part of that.

I never got a I wanna be famous vibe from this woman, I know they didn’t show her much so we don’t actually know her. I do think she was doing at least some of their laundry I remember them saying that was grandmas job plus Joy (or someone) as she got older yes she probably didn’t do much maybe none at all, but I definitely think they used her, maybe she was using them too for fame but I doubt it honestly. 

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, Puffin said:

I never got a I wanna be famous vibe from this woman, I know they didn’t show her much so we don’t actually know her. I do think she was doing at least some of their laundry I remember them saying that was grandmas job plus Joy (or someone) as she got older yes she probably didn’t do much maybe none at all, but I definitely think they used her, maybe she was using them too for fame but I doubt it honestly. 

She was, apparently, a successful real estate broker and the owner of several properties. She had no financial reason to live with her son and his brood. She may not have wanted fame for herself, but she certainly worked to ensure fame for her family.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

Well, in their minds, they were fully people, they just passed away. “Survived by” is for people that are still alive. All the miscarriages could have been added to “predeceased by” (or whatever the wording is in obituaries).

Actually, she's talking nowtabout miscarried or stillborn children but about the ones the various grand-daughters and grand-daughters-in-law are currently pregnant with, I believe. 

37 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

That's what I mean, though...The babies in the womb are still alive, and fully people, so why wouldn't they be counted as people who survived her? I know it's just sort of semantics, but it was just something that struck me that one would think including those babies would be more consistent with their beliefs.

Because they are all massively illogical and dim and only say most of what they do say for the purpose of showing other people how ungodly we are?

Just a guess! 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Temperance]

16 hours ago, Saylii said:

Grandma Mary passed away.  I didn’t realize she was sick at all.

@Churchhoney In this post, that seems to be the most formal, obit-type post. It lists 2 children, 21 grandchildren (the original 19 +Amy and probably Tyler) and several great-grandchildren on the way. So it does acknowledge the unborn. It doesn't give a specific number of unborn grandchildren. It could be that it was written way in advance, or whoever wrote this up couldn't remember how many babies on the way.  It could be that there are more pregnancies to announce or that they don't want to risk not counting any early pregnancies. We know she has at least five unborn grandchildren on the way. In order that's Amy's son, JoKen #2, Joy's second, SiRen, and M6. 

[Churchhoney]

I'm about 99 percent sure that I've read the occasional comment from family members in the past praising Mary's wonderful god-bothering ways -- how that was a hallmark of what they considered her great concern for others -- so I have a feeling they speak the truth now. And of course to them it's a big compliment. 

Maybe she was just trying to fit in with JB and his clan, or maybe she was heavily into god-bothering in her own right. But I think their accounts of her doing it are probably true. 

A lot of people who seem pleasant enough can turn on a dime and suddenly ask you how you know you're not destined for eternal flames, in my experience. Many of them even sincerely believe they're trying to help you by doing it! .... Hypocrite that I am, I try to remain quiet and patient with this kind of thing until I can make an escape. Sometimes I'm also thinking I'd like to punch them in the face, though. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Churchhoney

[3 is enough]

I do remember reading that it was Mary who was the driving force behind promoting Jim Bob and ultimately getting the show.  But maybe the reason for this was not so much fame  or "ministry" as trying to find a way to make them extra money to help raise their big family? She may not have agreed with every decision Jim Bob made but he was still her son and she may have wanted to help out in any way she could without actually bankrolling them herself.

She did seem to love her husband, who was quite vocal about his reservations about the baby train.  And she was very close to Deanna and Amy. Neither Deanna or her husband seemed to be overly religious- certainly not including Jesus in every sentence that came out of their mouths.

  The show was pretty much scripted so I can see her pretending to be doing  the laundry on camera and then escaping to peace and quiet in her own place at night.

Edited June 10, 2019 by 3 is enough

[Churchhoney]

21 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I do remember reading that it was Mary who was the driving force behind promoting Jim Bob and ultimately getting the show.  But maybe the reason for this was not so much fame  or "ministry" as trying to find a way to make them extra money to help raise their big family?She may not have agreed with every decision Jim Bob made but he was still her son and she may have wanted to help out in any way she could without actually bankrolling them herself.

She did seem to love her husband, who was quite vocal about his reservations about the baby train.  And she was very close to Deanna and Amy. Neither Deanna or her husband seemed to be overly religious- certainly not including Jesus in every sentence that came out of their mouths.

  The show was pretty much scripted so I can see her pretending to be the laundry on camera and then escaping to peace and quiet in her own place at night.

Yes, I can definitely see this.

If I had a kid who insisted on making baby after baby after baby and I knew there was nothing I could do or say to stop it, I might get worried enough to take some kind of drastic measures, too, out of concern for all those babies. ....

And if Mary was pretty religious, she might also have been burdened by the suspicion that JB's and M's declarations that they did at God's orders were true. That would have given her two reasons to support and help out with whatever might bring in a load of cash. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

Grandma Mary was only 73? That's so young. 

Amy and Deanna must be struggling. I can't imagine having to grieve with JB, M and clan. Surely they all loved her, but I'm guessing their grief feels much different than Amy's and Deanna's.

Wow only 73.

[Temperance]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Grandma Mary was only 73? That's so young. 

Amy and Deanna must be struggling. I can't imagine having to grieve with JB, M and clan. Surely they all loved her, but I'm guessing their grief feels much different than Amy's and Deanna's.

Wow only 73.

No according to google and several other sources she was 78. 

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

No according to google and several other sources she was 78. 

Oh, my bad, was going off Entertainment Tonight. Still young in my book though.

[Christina87]

41 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

I do remember reading that it was Mary who was the driving force behind promoting Jim Bob and ultimately getting the show.  But maybe the reason for this was not so much fame  or "ministry" as trying to find a way to make them extra money to help raise their big family? She may not have agreed with every decision Jim Bob made but he was still her son and she may have wanted to help out in any way she could without actually bankrolling them herself.

She did seem to love her husband, who was quite vocal about his reservations about the baby train.  And she was very close to Deanna and Amy. Neither Deanna or her husband seemed to be overly religious- certainly not including Jesus in every sentence that came out of their mouths.

  The show was pretty much scripted so I can see her pretending to be the laundry on camera and then escaping to peace and quiet in her own place at night.

This is what I have always thought! She doesn't seem like a fame whore, but she seems a lot smarter than Jim bob. I can see her hustling behind the scenes to get a show, because she honestly feel it's their best bet to be able to afford all those children. She probably noticed all the looks they were getting around town, and during his senate run, and a lightbulb went off. Plus, she knows JB has a showboat personality. She might not have pursued this avenue if he'd been a quiet, introverted man. I've always thought she realized they needed money, and thought it was something JB would legitimately enjoy. 

[3 is enough]

Some stories are saying 73, others 78.  Evidently she got married in 1960, so 78 makes more sense, because I doubt she got married at 14.

[Scarlett45]

Just now, Christina87 said:

This is what I have always thought! She doesn't seem like a fame whore, but she seems a lot smarter than Jim bob. I can see her hustling behind the scenes to get a show, because she honestly feel it's their best bet to be able to afford all those children. She probably noticed all the looks they were getting around town, and during his senate run, and a lightbulb went off. Plus, she knows JB has a showboat personality. She might not have pursued this avenue if he'd been a quiet, introverted man. I've always thought she realized they needed money, and thought it was something JB would legitimately enjoy. 

This was my take as well. 

I think Grandma Mary genuinely loved her kids and grandkids, although I do wonder what she thought about how JB and Michelle handled Josh molesting his sisters. I always thought if JB & Michelle hadn’t been such fame whores they would’ve sent Josh to live with Grandma Mary or a boarding school to get him out of the house. 

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Oh Lauren.  You just HAD to include a mention of your poor lost baby in your post about Grandma Duggar didn't you?

FFS.

Good Lord, I'm sorry but Lauren is really a drama queen! Its always got to come down to her. 

2 hours ago, Lunera said:

That was very nicely said, I have to admit. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by libgirl2

[3 is enough]

I may not agree with his beliefs and I think he is a bit full of himself,  but I must admit Jeremy was raised well and understands how to behave in various social situations.  His Instagram post was lovely.  Short and sweet, and not at all about him. (Ahem, Lauren?  Watch and learn!)

[Sew Sumi]

From Jana 

[3 is enough]

Still nothing from Jessa?

[Lunera]

Wasn't Jana at the Alert graduation in Texas the day she died?

From social media it looked like most of the Duggars were roadtripping there all week. They were picture at Silver Dollar and some museum. 

[Absolom]

Maybe Jana stayed home and that's why she was the one driving Mary to church?

[GeeGolly]

12 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Maybe Jana stayed home and that's why she was the one driving Mary to church?

Oh my. I hope Jana wasn't home alone with Mary when she passed.

[DangerousMinds]

14 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Maybe Jana stayed home and that's why she was the one driving Mary to church?

What church did Mary attend?

[JoanArc]

My condolenes to the Duggars. Better quick than getting the office chair treatment. To me she's got just as much blood on her hands and Jim Bob and Michelle do re: what went/goes down in the family.

I'm sure Jim Bob inherits everything. They could use the cash.

[BigBingerBro]

3 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I'm sure Jim Bob inherits everything. They could use the cash.

I have a feeling she was smart enough to have a will.  Hopefully she left half to Deanna.

[babyhouseman]

I liked the posts that weren't all religious. Remembering TV, food, and shopping is more personal. 

[Absolom]

Quote

I have a feeling she was smart enough to have a will.  Hopefully she left half to Deanna.

I'm willing to bet that she did.  I think she also spent more time with Deanna than she did with Jim Bob.  Deanna is probably more needful of the money than Jim Bob is.  The grandchildren can all go take care of themselves.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Maybe Jana stayed home and that's why she was the one driving Mary to church?

What struck me is that Mary didn't drive herself. Maybe those strokes had more of a lasting effect than they let on.

[Absolom]

It could have been from a stroke, maybe she never liked driving, or maybe the older kids have taken turns taking her to church so she didn't have to go/walk in by herself.  

[DangerousMinds]

They didn't go to the same church?

[Lunera]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Maybe Jana stayed home and that's why she was the one driving Mary to church?

She posted several videos of the boys at the Alert graduation at around noon Sunday. I think it was in Texas, so I wondered when she drove Grandma. 

[Scarlett45]

19 minutes ago, Absolom said:

It could have been from a stroke, maybe she never liked driving, or maybe the older kids have taken turns taking her to church so she didn't have to go/walk in by herself.  

I used to drive my great aunt to church, she liked being able to chat on the way. I can see Jana enjoying the time with Mary (and Vice versa). 

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, Lunera said:

She posted several videos of the boys at the Alert graduation at around noon Sunday. I think it was in Texas, so I wondered when she drove Grandma. 

Well, Jana's been acting like a sort of official spokesperson recently. Maybe somebody else forwarded her the videos and she was just the one to post them?

Maybe they were forwarded to her by a family member who doesn't have social-media accounts, for example? Or somebody who doesn't have as many followers as she does? 

She doesn't say she was there, does she? Doesn't she just say "Congrats"?

But she says she drove Mary to church. I'd be inclined to believe that. 

Lots of people post videos they didn't shoot and forward videos to others who post them and so on....

Edited June 11, 2019 by Churchhoney