The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[3 is enough]

Jim Bob has criticized his father at various speaking engagements.  Talked about how his poor financial management skills hurt the family when he was a child, how his mom came to the rescue, blah, blah, blah.  He has also accused his dad of being an alcoholic- but of course that could just mean he enjoyed a beer or two to someone as anti-alcohol as Jim Bob.

 

I think there are some videos of Boob and Michelle speaking at various events floating around where you can hear his rants.

 

Poor Jackson!  I bet his birthday was totally forgotten in all of this.

Edited May 25, 2015 by 3 is enough

[SadForTheJSlaves]

Jim Bob has criticized his father at various speaking engagements.  Talked about how his poor financial management skills hurt the family when he was a child, how his mom came to the rescue, blah, blah, blah.  He has also accused his dad of being an alcoholic- but of course that could just mean he enjoyed a beer or two to someone as anti-alcohol as Jim Bob.

 

I think there are some videos of Boob and Michelle speaking at various events floating around where you can hear his rants.

 

Poor Jackson!  I bet his birthday was totally forgotten in all of this.

 

Wow! Was this when his father was still alive or had he passed away by then? Actually, I don't know which is worse. I do remember Jim Bob's father being vocally critical of how many children they had on one episode...

[GEML]

There is also the episode where the Duggar children push their dying grandfather around in a desk chair instead of a wheelchair. It's pretty hard to watch if you care about the dignity of the elderly or the sick. People have made the argument that perhaps he was too proud to use a wheelchair, and that may be possible, but to be honest (and I think Im more sympathetic to the Duggars than some) that footage is really difficult. The man is clearly dying. I'm not sure you could say he's able to have that much pride at that point. And Jim Bob, Michelle or Mary, his own wife don't step in and insist on his dignity has always been somewhat disturbing to me.

Add to that his comments (I think particularly the ones at Liberty University, but I might have the specifics wrong) about what a failure he was. Plus, Gothardism itself is a repudiation of your own parents. You become the first generation for your own patriarchal dynasty. Convenient, that.

[roamyn]

Add to that his comments (I think particularly the ones at Liberty University, but I might have the specifics wrong) about what a failure he was. Plus, Gothardism itself is a repudiation of your own parents. You become the first generation for your own patriarchal dynasty. Convenient, that.

Sounds like they make up the rules as they go along to fit with any "mistakes" or their needs/wants.

[Fuzzysox]

Sounds like they make up the rules as they go along to fit with any "mistakes" or their needs/wants.

Yep exactly.

 

Gothard's damn chart is about him not being blamed for touching girls. He made it up in his head and people follow his "words of wisdom." UGH creepy sick old man.

[Lillybee]

I wonder if Grandma became the laundry slave to protect the girls.  The laundry room seems to be one of the few places a girl can be alone in that house.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I wonder if Grandma became the laundry slave to protect the girls.  The laundry room seems to be one of the few places a girl can be alone in that house.

 

And what better place to view a family's dirty "underwear" in more ways than one........

[McManda]

People have made the argument that perhaps he was too proud to use a wheelchair, and that may be possible, but to be honest (and I think Im more sympathetic to the Duggars than some) that footage is really difficult. The man is clearly dying. I'm not sure you could say he's able to have that much pride at that point.

 

There's a difference between Grandpa being too proud for a wheelchair and Jim Bob deciding it was a wheelchair replacement. My grandfather wasn't too proud, perhaps, but he had an office chair he scooted around in because of mobility issues [under his own power, we didn't wheel him!] because that was his chair at the table and my grandparents social epicenter was the kitchen/eating area. He still walked (slowly, and with assistance) to and from his bedroom and the bathroom. JimBob wheeling his father out in an office chair was completely for show and because they didn't have any other way to do it. JimBob's father didn't choose the office chair. The man wasn't coherent enough to choose anything at that point and that's what's most disturbing, not the chair itself.

[GEML]

McManda - that was my take too. I found that to be one of the most disturbing episodes.

[Micks Picks]

IIRC the part about grandpa dug gar being vocally critical of all the children they had was actually a concern for the health of Michelle, obviously a concern that only irritated Boob.

[becca3891]

I don't have any specific evidence just reasonable deduction. Jana recently had a FB page that was proven to be fake and Josh,Jill,Jessa and Si had zero social media presence until they started courting. The boys don't even have Smartphones or unlimited Internet access and it seems unlikely that a control freak like Boob would give teenagers a platform where they might inadvertently say something that doesn't jibe with the party line. If this isn't the case I'll happily stand corrected:)

This has been verified by the Duggars, I believe in their latest book. The children still under their roof and umbrella of protection are not allowed to be on social media.

[Slugabug Foster]

Granted I haven't watched the show in a while, I feel for little Jordyn, and even Jennifer and Johannah, if they truly have been forgotten since Josie's arrival. Speaking from personal experience, it's not easy living in the shadow of a "miracle baby." I hope Jana (or another sister-mom) has been there to remind them that they're special, too.

[Fuzzysox]

I thought of JoylessAnna this weekend and her spending lots and lots of time with Grandma has taken on a whole new meaning in my eyes. Thank goodness there was someone watching out for Joy and the littles because MEchelle checked herself out of the responsibility of being a real parent. 

[charmed1]

Hopefully, if the show ends, the other children can now have little moments of normalcy all to themselves. At least they can dance for five seconds in the thrift store without some snitch TLC crew member running to tattle on them.

[anony mouse]

Hopefully, if the show ends, the other children can now have little moments of normalcy all to themselves. At least they can dance for five seconds in the thrift store without some snitch TLC crew member running to tattle on them.

I feel the opposite. If the cameras go away, there's nothing stopping them from using the Pearl's heinous "training" on them all the time. The cameras are a layer of protection for some of these kids.

[charmed1]

But who would be training them? The remaining sister moms? Grandma? Jana's got her hands full. Michelle seems like she can barely remember her kids' names. Lame chess lessons notwithstanding. With Jessa gone, somebody has to take over the schooling. Jinger seems to handle at least some driving. Joy has to step in as leader of her buddy team. With all their responsibilities, I just don't see the girls squeezing abusive parenting time in between laundry, sewing, raising a special needs child and cooking while their parents are far off somewhere trying to help "heathens." But stranger things have happened.

Edited May 27, 2015 by charmed1

[anony mouse]

But who would be training them? The remaining sister moms? Grandma? Jana's got her hands full. Michelle seems like she can barely remember her kids' names. Lame chess lessons notwithstanding.

She doesn't need to know their names to beat them with a rod, which is something they've done in the past, according to the police report.

[Kellyee]

 

This has been verified by the Duggars, I believe in their latest book. The children still under their roof and umbrella of protection are not allowed to be on social media.

 

Jana and John David are both 25 years old. Its amazing the control Jim Bob and Michelle have over those kids, that even as adults they can't have a stupid Twitter account.

[HumblePi]

She doesn't need to know their names to beat them with a rod, which is something they've done in the past, according to the police report.

What? "beat them with a rod" ?

[juneday]

I'm sorry if this is OT, (I looked and thought this was the appropriate thread?) but I just watched the clip where Josie has a seizure (I haven't been watching the show lately but I thought I'd watch some of the "important" or more telling clips) and the fact that her seizure went on for 10 minutes is very concerning, as well as the fact that Jana says she was turning blue and purple. I have epilepsy and have grand mal seizures that are controlled by medication, but when they weren't controlled and I did have them I was always told by doctors that a seizure lasting more than 5 minutes can be harmful to your brain's functioning and breathing and can be deadly. I felt so sorry for poor Jana, who obviously didn't know exactly what to do. It's good that they got the ambulance and paramedics out but I really hope that they have a neurologist seeing Josie or at least getting her checked out regularly by a doctor.

[anony mouse]

What? "beat them with a rod" ?

If you look into the Pearl book's horrible "train up a child" methods, one discipline involves hitting your child with flexible PVC pipe with the idea of "spare the rod, spoil the child." It's horrific - it is advocated for even babies as part of blanket training. The Duggars follow these methods to some degree, although it's not been shown on tv, and the police report referenced a statement from one child about being hit with a rod. Frankly, I believe it's only the presence of the cameras which has kept the younger kids from most of this "training," and I'm fearful of what will happen when they are gone.

[GEML]

It's possible that there could be a lot of anger in the family following the show's cancellation. And not just coming from the obvious suspects such as Jim Bob, Michelle and Josh. There are a lot of adolescents in that house who have given up a lot to be on television and are now not going to see any kind of reward for that sacrifice of their childhood, privacy or long hours when they almost certainly would have rather have been doing something else. It's easy to say "no one is entitled to be on reality TV" and I'm not saying that or saying that the show shouldn't be cancelled. Just pointing out that we are talking about a LOT of people dealing with a LOT of complicated emotion. I think the little girls are very vulnerable.

[3 is enough]

The little girls have been filmed since birth.  That is the only life they know.  I am sure they are very confused that their "second family", who, truth be told, probably had more interaction with them than their brood mare of a mother, has suddenly disappeared.

[CarolMK]

I have a feeling that even if John David was allowed to use social media, he wouldn't bother with it. He seems very private in general and only does interviews for the show when he's kind of forced into it, imo.

 

I also really have to wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that he is living in his own house instead of living with the Duggar family. To be honest, if that were the rumor that proved to be true rather than the other one, I don't think it would have hurt the Duggars at all. Jim Bob would just give some sanctimonious speech about how they decided to "let" John David live on his own because of his multiple jobs, etc. Not to mention that even the average viewer of this show has to think it's more than a bit weird for a 25 year old man to share a bedroom with all of his siblings down to the 10 year old boy.

[GEML]

I think we'd give them so grief about it. John David can live on his own because he's male, but Jana has to share a room with little girls? I don't think that would go unconnected on for sixty seconds.

[Bella]

I have this vision of one of the girls just slipping out of the house one night, making her way to John David's house (assuming he really has a separate house), knocking on the door and, when he answers, saying "I can't stay there anymore."

 

Sheer fantasy, in all likelihood. But it's how I see the beginning of a departure.

[Jenniferbug]

I think they mentioned in an episode a while ago that after Grandpa Duggar passed away, John David took over his room because he was getting a lot of EMT calls in the night. (I can't remember what he is so not sure EMT is the right word) Of course, then I don't know where grandma's room is then so maybe that was just a temporary arrangement.

[zenme]

I think they mentioned in an episode a while ago that after Grandpa Duggar passed away, John David took over his room because he was getting a lot of EMT calls in the night. (I can't remember what he is so not sure EMT is the right word) Of course, then I don't know where grandma's room is then so maybe that was just a temporary arrangement

 

Well, I'm glad he moved into his own space.  Seeing as how he's some kind of law enforcement person in his area, one would think that living in a dorm style set-up with bunch of little boys wouldn't engender too much faith in his ability to serve and protect. 

[JoanArc]

I thought Grandma still lived in that room?

 

Edit: John David's house could be a good escape route for anyone who wants to leave the compound. Technically out of Jim Bob's grasp, but still around family. Not that I think that would actually happen.

Edited May 27, 2015 by JoanArc

[Absolom]

Grandma stayed in that room after Grandpa Duggar died.  I keep reading the rumor that John David moved out, but so far I've never seen any proof of it.  

[Jenniferbug]

I think maybe they mentioned he was sleeping there in the episode where Josie had her first seizure and Jill called 911 in the night and he was one of the people whose pagers went off. Maybe he was on call that night and Grandma was elsewhere (Deanna's)? I really don't know as I don't think they ever referenced him staying there again.

[Absolom]

He was in the house, but it looked like he was upstairs in the boys' room.  

[Jenniferbug]

My mistake :-)

[HeyNow]

I haven't read through all of this thread, so I apologize if this has been posted before.  It's JL's obituary.

He was third generation real estate salesman and,  according to this, a successful one.

Gil Bates officiated at the funeral.

And, maybe Jim Bob got the habit of laughing things off from him?

 

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=33774692

[Churchhoney]

I haven't read through all of this thread, so I apologize if this has been posted before.  It's JL's obituary.

He was third generation real estate salesman and,  according to this, a successful one.

Gil Bates officiated at the funeral.

And, maybe Jim Bob got the habit of laughing things off from him?

 

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=33774692

 

Thanks for bringing up the obituary. I read it a few months ago and have wondered about it. Does it strike anyone else as odd that JImBob seems to really despise his father, and yet this obit is as warm as warm can be and actually attributes to his dad several positive qualities that JBD prides himSELF on? There seems to be such a disconnect. I wonder whether that means That JB's sister or mother DOESN"T hate Grandpa D, and one or both of them had full charge of the obit? Or maybe this is more of the whitewash and denial that JB (and maybe others in the family) is so good at regarding a lot of other things in is life (like, we now know, his oldest son)? Or what?

 

There are deceased people in my family about whom many feel the kinds of things JB seems to feel about his father, and they did NOT get sweet glowy praise-heavy obituaries like this. Nobody would have had the inclination, or the stomach, to write a bunch of sweet Hallmark lies about their characters. They didn't get negative obits, either. But they got very straightforward, "just the facts, ma'am" accounts, with accomplishments listed but not glowed at. Anyway, the contrast between JimBob's accounts of his dad and what's written here seem strange to me -- and maybe emblematic of his tendency to gloss everything over public consumption? I don't know .... I;m thinking about it too much, I guess. But the facts about Grandpa Duggar seem kind of a mystery to me.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

Wanna bet Jana wrote that? Why else would he be referred to as "Grandpa Duggar" and be lauded as the "best grandpa" in terms that sound like they come from the grandkids' generation? It appeared that JB had a stranglehold on the funeral, but it's possible that Jana took care of some things, including the picture retrospective and obituary. 

[GEML]

I also think they believe they are better actors than they are. I think Jim Bob thinks, when he speaks about his father, it's with temperance and love. He's not seeing the anger and resentment, because the man has no ability to self-reflect and no one but someone in authority over him has the right to challenge him.

So you get these weird disconnects with their public and private family images.

Edited May 28, 2015 by GEML

[BitterApple]

I'm picturing JD in his house with a fridge full of beer and Playboy's on the coffee table frantically trying to clear the evidence when two or more of his siblings make a run for it and show up at his place.

[3 is enough]

 

Wow! Was this when his father was still alive or had he passed away by then? Actually, I don't know which is worse. I do remember Jim Bob's father being vocally critical of how many children they had on one episode...

Apologies, Sad ForTheJSlaves, I did not see your question. Hard to keep up with all the posts this past week.

 

This has only been since his dad passed away.

[Sew Sumi]

Grandma Mary was into the cover up to her eyeballs, as the documents in the enclosed link reveal. Looks like they got Josh out of the house and Grandpa Ruark was paid some hush money as well. 

 

This family is SO sleazy! But at least we now know where Boob gets that snake oil salesman vibe from. It was genetic. 

 

https://fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/you-be-the-judge/

[Wellfleet]

Grandma Mary was into the cover up to her eyeballs, as the documents in the enclosed link reveal. Looks like they got Josh out of the house and Grandpa Ruark was paid some hush money as well. 

 

This family is SO sleazy! But at least we now know where Boob gets that snake oil salesman vibe from. It was genetic. 

 

https://fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/you-be-the-judge/

 

Wow. Grandma Mary, the Ma Barker of the gang... What'll be next?

[CofCinci]

Wow. Grandma Mary, the Ma Barker of the gang... What'll be next?

She's laundering money, not their dirty underwear.

[Sew Sumi]

I am just flabbergasted that she worked SO HARD to protect the precious first-born golden child grandson, to the detriment of her granddaughters. I have no words...

[truthtalk2014]

I'm picturing JD in his house with a fridge full of beer and Playboy's on the coffee table frantically trying to clear the evidence when two or more of his siblings make a run for it and show up at his place.

OMG- that is one great photo in my mind.  All we need is a Sally Field doing the no no with him on the plaid sofa.  

 

GO for it JD!  I'm pulling for you!

I am just flabbergasted that she worked SO HARD to protect the precious first-born golden child grandson, to the detriment of her granddaughters. I have no words...

 

It really sucks that Mary is turning out to be the mother that supports her son no matter what.  

[Fuzzysox]

Grandma Mary was into the cover up to her eyeballs, as the documents in the enclosed link reveal. Looks like they got Josh out of the house and Grandpa Ruark was paid some hush money as well. 

 

This family is SO sleazy! But at least we now know where Boob gets that snake oil salesman vibe from. It was genetic. 

 

https://fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/you-be-the-judge/

Wow the shit everyone is picking out off the internet is amazing.

[RazzleberryPie]

It really sucks that Mary is turning out to be the mother that supports her son no matter what.  

Doesn't surprise me. Also doesn't surprise me that JimBob's parents were apparently fairly well established (not Country Club elite old money wealthy, but doing well enough that their teenage son could have some sort of cash for start up businesses with his new teenage bride). I always presumed Grandpa wasn't nearly as bad as JimBob claimed, but just a normal Baptist who didn't gulp the Fundie and then ATI koolaid, so Jim Bob was going to bad mouth him. 

[CofCinci]

They did well enough that their dorky son to score the cheerleader that mows lawns in a bikini. Young Michelle saw dollar signs.

[Churchhoney]

Doesn't surprise me. Also doesn't surprise me that JimBob's parents were apparently fairly well established (not Country Club elite old money wealthy, but doing well enough that their teenage son could have some sort of cash for start up businesses with his new teenage bride). I always presumed Grandpa wasn't nearly as bad as JimBob claimed, but just a normal Baptist who didn't gulp the Fundie and then ATI koolaid, so Jim Bob was going to bad mouth him. 

 

To my eye, anyway, JimBob kind of seems to portray himself as this poor straggler who rose on his own from nothing. But the real estate business was already in its third-generation -- with the family's name on it, looks like -- when his father had it..... When you inherit a business like that that's already known and established in your area and you're carrying it into its fourth generation, you generally kind of are born on third base. So JimBob didn't actually hit a triple as a businessman, no matter what he'd like to believe.

[Sew Sumi]

I wonder if there was some kind of rift between JL and JB that precluded JB getting his license and joining the firm right after high school? Or did JL run it into the ground? JB always tells a story about how his father made shitty business decisions, and his mother had to pick up the pieces. It's obvious that JB was the Favored Child; he got the private school education, while Deanna was left to fend for herself at Springdale (or Fayetteville, I can never remember) High. 

 

I also remembered what Mary said during Jessa's wedding episode about marriage being a sacrifice. I wonder if things weren't as rosy as JB liked to portray them while JL was still alive (before he started trashing JL post-mortem)? They wouldn't be the only couple married for almost 50 years who didn't really like each other very much. Mary has sold the public a false bill of goods, but the one thing I don't doubt is her faith. That could be the one thing that kept her with JL, if he was indeed the loser that JB now makes him out to be on the lecture circuit. 

[cmr2014]

 

 

I haven't read through all of this thread, so I apologize if this has been posted before.  It's JL's obituary.

He was third generation real estate salesman and,  according to this, a successful one.

Gil Bates officiated at the funeral.

And, maybe Jim Bob got the habit of laughing things off from him?

http://www.findagrav...r&GRid=33774692

 

My impression has been that JB had the same sort of relationship with his father that he has with his sons. He is aggressive and competitive with them, and I wouldn't be surprised if Grandpa wasn't the same with JB. I could easily see Grandpa mocking JB for being skinny, pious, and nonathletic, and having no shot with a pretty girl. I suspect that this sort of father/son "humor" is a tradition in their family, and I could easily see JB resenting and hating his father for it, and blithely repeating the pattern with his own sons with no more self-awareness than he shows in any other facet of his life. 

 

I also found the obit really off-putting. I realize that this is a very religious part of the country, and these are very religious people, just it ust struck me as "off." The I realized what it was -- it was a competition. Everything is a contest for JB and in the obit, his father gets to come back from the grave and talk down to his neighbors one last time about their wretched sinfulness.