Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[doodlebug]

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Can a impostor midwife pose as a Doula to avoid any legal action?

Yep.  However, most lay midwives don’t have to pose as anything.  The women who use them know who they are and that others feel their training is inadequate.  The people that seek them out for care are usually deeply sceptical of traditional Western medicine and/ or conservative fundamentalists who want someone with similar beliefs to deliver their children.  Many of the lay midwives I’ve encountered are members of large fundy evangelical churches where having a lot of kids is the norm and they mainly care for women from their congregation.

It is NOT illegal to deliver a baby, no matter who you are.  It is illegal to misrepresent yourself as a licensed practitioner and charge a fee for those services.  But, first, somebody has to turn you in and be willing to formally testify against you.  Most of the types involved also distrust the legal community, in addition to medicine, so they won’t participate in attempts to prosecute these lay midwives.  No witnesses, no case.

[doodlebug]

20 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

In her defense, it can take an active child a matter of minutes to make a mess like that. I have seen parents turn their backs for a few minutes and the room looked like a tornado hit. Now I dont' follow her on instagram or anything so its possible her place always looks like this, but I have seen worse. 

I was lucky, my son was very neat as a child. People would always be amazed. As a 24 year old, he no longer is. I don't even look anymore. 

 

This is true, but, in virtually EVERY photo Jill has posted of their home, there’s some sort of mess in the background.  And, often the mess that we see; unmade beds, piles of laundry, etc are grown up mess, not kid mess.  If Jill and Derick don’t tidy up after themselves, I doubt they clean up after their kids, either.  If Jill was a reasonably neat homemaker, we’d have seen evidence of it, considering how many photos of her home are out there.

Edited April 20, 2018 by doodlebug

[Barb23]

I'm sure Jill doesn't even realize nor care how trashy & unkempt her homes look in her pictures & videos.  Unlike Jessa whose fans were quick to point out the dirty diapers & stained sheets in the Seewald home. I remember the episode when newlywed Jill was shown dusting the Sunnybrook house.  I'm sure it was staged & was probably the last time Jill has picked up a cleaning implement. 

[Ocean Chick]

Those houses (Jill and Jessa’s) won’t get cleaned until they have daughters old enough to clean them. That’s the Duggar Way. 

[BitterApple]

For those of you unfamiliar with the botched birth that resulted in Venessa losing her license, here's the article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquisitr.com/2971135/mother-whose-baby-nearly-died-says-a-duggar-attended-her-homebirth-discusses-why-jill-dillards-midwife-trainer-lost-her-license/amp/

I had no idea it happened at the Pool House and Jill was present, along with several other apprentices. I found it interesting that the mother said the apprentices all recommended transferring to a hospital and it was Venessa who refused. The child is now permanently disabled thanks to her incompetency.

[bythelake]

In the pictures,the toys laying around don't concern me as much as that filthy carpet. If they are in a rental, why they can rent a steam cleaner at low cost if they don't want to pay for professional cleaning. But, to put your small child on that dirty carpet when you know he's going to roll around and face plant into that mess is disgusting. She could at least put down a "Blanket" over the dirt. I'm sure she has lots of them.

[DragonFaerie]

2 hours ago, bythelake said:

In the pictures,the toys laying around don't concern me as much as that filthy carpet. If they are in a rental, why they can rent a steam cleaner at low cost if they don't want to pay for professional cleaning. But, to put your small child on that dirty carpet when you know he's going to roll around and face plant into that mess is disgusting. She could at least put down a "Blanket" over the dirt. I'm sure she has lots of them.

YES!  1000 times to this!!!!  After pulling up carpet in our home and seeing what was underneath it - even though I vacummed 3 times a week at least, I was disgusted.  I can't imagine, not only from previous tenants, but from lazy Jill WHAT is in that carpet that baby Sammy is lying on!  GROSS!!!  And also Yes 1000 times to whomever said they'd give her a pass on the toys and state of the house if it wasn't her ONLY job.

Also, I'm ashamed to say, I caught myself, after digging up 4 washtubs of thistle on the property, saying Yayyyyy! to myself and was like - Oh HELL NO!  Brain bleach and beer to stop that in it's tracks - shudders.

[SMama]

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

 

I had no idea it happened at the Pool House and Jill was present, along with several other apprentices. 

That probably explains why Venessa had to vacate the pool house. If Jill truly advocated for a hospital transfer, why in hades did she not do the same with her two births?

[farmgal4]

On 4/16/2018 at 4:30 PM, Natalie68 said:

I was just going to post that they are pigs.  No reason to have all that shit all over the floor.  She obviously isn't purposing to be a good housekeeper.  

Forget the fact that she’s a lazy slob; I can count about 15 potential choking hazards on that floor, and that’s just what we can see!  Who knows what the rest of the room/house looks like!  Omg, those poor, pitiful children.

[ginger90]

32 minutes ago, SMama said:

That probably explains why Venessa had to vacate the pool house. If Jill truly advocated for a hospital transfer, why in hades did she not do the same with her two births?

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jill-duggar-midwife-complications-99467.amp

 

From the article:

And while Tiffany puts the blame on Venessa, she adds that if Venessa was the sole midwife Jill apprenticed for, she should never have received her certification, stating, “If Venessa’s the only person she’s trained under, I don’t think she’s qualified.”

[lascuba]

33 minutes ago, SMama said:

That probably explains why Venessa had to vacate the pool house. If Jill truly advocated for a hospital transfer, why in hades did she not do the same with her two births?

Because by that point, she had "graduated" and learned that that was just inexperienced nerves talking. It's like how we were horrified when Jessa requested to go to the hospital and was talked out of it...that's actually totally normal among homebirthers, and it's part of the story they tell. "I was so sure I couldn't do it, but fortunately, my birth team in their wisdom knew not to listen to me, and I had my perfect homebirth!" I guarantee that Jill views that birth that Venesa botched as something that would have had the same exact result in a hospital.

[SMama]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I guarantee that Jill views that birth that Venesa botched as something that would have had the same exact result in a hospital.

That is truly horrifying. Did/are the parents suing Venessa? That poor child, suffering because of the collective ignorance  of these morons.

Edited April 20, 2018 by SMama
Spelling

[Future Cat Lady]

If a baby or mother dies, could there be criminal charges?

I get why there is no civil lawsuit. But if there is a death, doesn’t the police have to get involved?

[Barb23]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Because by that point, she had "graduated" and learned that that was just inexperienced nerves talking. It's like how we were horrified when Jessa requested to go to the hospital and was talked out of it...that's actually totally normal among homebirthers, and it's part of the story they tell. "I was so sure I couldn't do it, but fortunately, my birth team in their wisdom knew not to listen to me, and I had my perfect homebirth!" I guarantee that Jill views that birth that Venesa botched as something that would have had the same exact result in a hospital.

I wonder if this was the first birth that Jill attended that had problems. 

[SMama]

These people people are always proselytizing about the sanctity of life, how a fetus is a full human being from the moment of conception. They harass women at Planned Parenthood, try to regulate women’s bodies, are sanctimonious assholes.

But when that fully formed person is about to exit the womb, they are callous with their actions. They have no problem letting that precious miracle suffer. All in the name of fake midwifery.  Then it is OK for the fully formed human, child of God to experience oxygen deprivation and even die. I’m sure Venessa does not feel she botched that birth because the child survived. Never mind the precious child will forever pay the price of her ineptitude. All she has to do is set up shop in the next unregulated state. They should be criminally prosecuted and held accountable for their actions.

[Vaysh]

Aren't there any kind of negligence laws in Arkansas? As in, if you cause someone physical harm and/or death by being a careless dumbass, you will be charged with a crime because you've endangered another person by your carelessness. In Sweden this includes things like leaving your stove on and causing a fire, not watching over your child at the beach/pool, careless behaviour in traffic and so on. I don't know if failure to call an ambulance during a stressful home birth would fall under this since home births are very rare around here and only done with low-risk pregnancies but I'm assuming it would, especially if the person in charge was a midwife or doula. Medical personnel, including doctors, who fail in their duty towards their patients can and do get charged with causing bodily harm/causing death, even if it wasn't intentional.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Vaysh

[louannems]

8 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I'm sure Jill doesn't even realize nor care how trashy & unkempt her homes look in her pictures & videos.  Unlike Jessa whose fans were quick to point out the dirty diapers & stained sheets in the Seewald home. I remember the episode when newlywed Jill was shown dusting the Sunnybrook house.  I'm sure it was staged & was probably the last time Jill has picked up a cleaning implement. 

I remember an episode at the Sunnybrook house.  They were getting ready to follow Derick jogging.  Jill rode behind on a bicycle with Izzy riding on the back.

Before they left, they were sitting on the living room floor, helping Izzy get on clothes.  You could clearly see under the end tables and the dust balls were huge, y'all!

[SMama]

I wonder how Derick jogs now. Izzy and Sam ride behind Jill’s bike in a trailer, watching their father throw up every mile? There’s nothing wrong with family togetherness, but this family is freaking extreme. I would pass on exposing SGirl to her father’s puking fits. Sorry if BEC.

[CalicoKitty]

Since I'm pulling extra recliner duty due to my knee surgery, I decided to check a "fact" that someone posted here a while back.  Apparently, many women believe that piercing the left side of the nose makes childbirth pain easier.  Is this a common Fundy practice?

[Nysha]

1 hour ago, CalicoKitty said:

Apparently, many women believe that piercing the left side of the nose makes childbirth pain easier.  Is this a common Fundy practice?

No, it would be considered a pagan belief in Fundy circles. Nose piercing isn't generally accepted by most Fundies. I know many who don't believe in wearing any jewelry except a simple wedding ring because of Bible verses against excessive jewelry. When I was young our preacher spoke out against ear piercing and tattoos using verses against disfiguring the body God gave you.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Nysha

[Zella]

I've met a few teens/early 20s fundies with nose piercings recently. It throws me off because I'm a little older than them, and that was unheard of in those circles when I was that age. I've never asked them about it, though. 

Edited to add some of the ones I've seen are married but at least one was single. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Zella

[Absolom]

Jill and Derick are SBC now though.  I know lots of SBC women with pierced ears.  I don't know what they think about nose piercings though.  I think they might find the labor reasoning suspect as a superstition.

[Jeanne222]

Sorry I'm not keeping up!  Have Jill and Derrick left the dugger fold?  I always thought them the favored loves with the big houses from pops dugger.

What changed?  Tia

[GeeGolly]

If I'm understanding the botched delivery, the child was born in distress? It's one thing to encourage a woman to stick with her birth plan and push through the pain of labor. It's completely different to keep a distressed newborn from medical attention. What were they telling the mom? Why didn't she call for help? Did she not have any family with her? 

I'm sure the lay-midwife certificate was started by these midwives to receive acknowledgment and respect of their 'expertise', but in my opinion it makes things worse.  It pushes them underground into covert deliveries and that is dangerous.  Otherwise why aren't they seeking medical attention when there's an obvious need?

The goal should be healthy baby, healthy mother, not hero midwife.

To bad the certificate program can't be shut down. 

[Temperance]

Not to take away from the discussion above, but I really disliked the photo of Israel on the scale. He's a young child who seem to be healthy in most respects. He eats what his parents feed him.  And yet, there he is posed on scale, pretending to look upset about his weight. It isn't his fault and he's just a very young kid. It bothers me that he's 3 years old and they're already teaching him that your weight can be a source of shame, judgment, stress or worry. 

I bet if he was a girl, people would be upset.  Although from millenials on down, boys/guys/men are more and more self-conscious about their bodies. 

[graefin]

Derick's posted another long live Insta story of him and Jill and the boys at a local park. Highlights: Jill starts the video off with a "yaaaaay"; Derick puns about recreational drug use in reference to Israel climbing on top of some play mushrooms; Israel gets another rock in his shoe; oh, and Jill speaks Spanish to Israel.

Edited April 21, 2018 by graefin
One other thing

[Totally]

I just want to give Izzy a big hug, he is so sweet and so easy going 

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, graefin said:

Derick's posted another long live Insta story of him and Jill and the boys at a local park. Highlights: Jill starts the video off with a "yaaaaay"; Derick puns about recreational drug use in reference to Israel climbing on top of some play mushrooms; Israel gets another rock in his shoe.

That sounds scintillating! I will be sure to pop some corn and watch. 

They have no sense of what would make them interesting to follow on social media. If they didn’t have the Duggar name no one would look at any of their posts. 

[ginger90]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If I'm understanding the botched delivery, the child was born in distress? It's one thing to encourage a woman to stick with her birth plan and push through the pain of labor. It's completely different to keep a distressed newborn from medical attention. What were they telling the mom? Why didn't she call for help? Did she not have any family with her? 

I'm sure the lay-midwife certificate was started by these midwives to receive acknowledgment and respect of their 'expertise', but in my opinion it makes things worse.  It pushes them underground into covert deliveries and that is dangerous.  Otherwise why aren't they seeking medical attention when there's an obvious need?

The goal should be healthy baby, healthy mother, not hero midwife.

To bad the certificate program can't be shut down. 

Here’s an article:

https://www.inquisitr.com/2971135/mother-whose-baby-nearly-died-says-a-duggar-attended-her-homebirth-discusses-why-jill-dillards-midwife-trainer-lost-her-license/amp/

 

From the article:

According to Tiffany Nance, and minutes from the Arkansas State Board of Health confirm, Venessa Giron was the acting midwife for Tiffany when she gave birth to daughter Jozzie. The infant was born with a strep b infection, but according to Tiffany, it took two hours before midwife Venessa would transfer the baby to the hospital for treatment.

“She failed to recognize the signs of a group b strep infection then proceeded to not transfer her until 2 hours after the start of respiratory distress started. If my baby would have been treated within the first hour it could have prevented her near death and now cerebral palsy due to multiple brain bleeds.”

[Catfin]

9 hours ago, Zella said:

I've met a few teens/early 20s fundies with nose piercings recently. It throws me off because I'm a little older than them, and that was unheard of in those circles when I was that age. I've never asked them about it, though. 

Edited to add some of the ones I've seen are married but at least one was single. 

Nose piercing is not limited to fundies. DD is 17 many, many of her friends have a pierced nostril. She keeps asking. We keep saying no. 

[doodlebug]

14 hours ago, SMama said:

That is truly horrifying. Did/are the parents suing Venessa? That poor child, suffering because of the collective ignorance  of these morons.

Once again, there is no point in suing someone who has no insurance and no assets.  Malpractice attorneys receive a portion of the proceeds if they win as payment.  If they don’t win, they don’t get paid.  No malpractice attorney is going to take a case if there is no possibility of getting paid.  The average malpractice suit takes tens of thousands of dollars to pursue. Lawyers fees, depositions, experts; it is very expensive. 

The only thing they can do is make sure the public knows what happened and to get the state licensing board to review the situation and pull her license if warranted.  They’ve done that. The only other option is a criminal complaint, but it doesn’t sound like this situation rose to that level.

[doodlebug]

13 hours ago, Vaysh said:

Aren't there any kind of negligence laws in Arkansas? As in, if you cause someone physical harm and/or death by being a careless dumbass, you will be charged with a crime because you've endangered another person by your carelessness. In Sweden this includes things like leaving your stove on and causing a fire, not watching over your child at the beach/pool, careless behaviour in traffic and so on. I don't know if failure to call an ambulance during a stressful home birth would fall under this since home births are very rare around here and only done with low-risk pregnancies but I'm assuming it would, especially if the person in charge was a midwife or doula. Medical personnel, including doctors, who fail in their duty towards their patients can and do get charged with causing bodily harm/causing death, even if it wasn't intentional.

 

There are laws concerning negligence in the US, but, based on what you’ve said about Sweden, they are not nearly as strict.  In the US, people tend to expect people to take responsibility for their choices, including the choice to follow someone else’ bad advice.  A US jury, when hearing the story, would wonder why the parents didn’t take it upon themselves to call for help no matter what Venessa was saying.  If your baby is having trouble breathing, you shouldn’t need to be told to get help for her. Prosecutors in the US would probably decline to file charges due to the low chances of getting a conviction.

I am aware of far more egregious cases than this one involving home births and lay midwives. In those cases, police were willing to pursue prosecution, but the parents refused to cooperate in order to protect the midwife.  I personally was involved in 2 cases where babies died because a lay midwife botched a birth and the parents actually lied to the police who investigated about the circumstances and the midwives couldn’t be charged.

Edited April 21, 2018 by doodlebug

[Vaysh]

11 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

 In the US, people tend to expect people to take responsibility for their choices, including the choice to follow someone else’ bad advice.  A US jury, when hearing the story, would wonder why the parents didn’t take it upon themselves to call for help no matter what Venessa was saying.  If your baby is having trouble breathing, you shouldn’t need to be told to get help for her.

IANAL but I think in this type of scenario, should it arise here, the parents could be charged as well as the midwife though they would probably be aquitted since the midwife in question would be a medical professional and thus considered an authority. Patients aren't reasonably expected to "know better" than the medical professional at hand. It is difficult to say how a scenario with only a doula present would play out. This hypothetical court case wouldn't be doula or midwife vs parents however, it wuld be doula/parents vs baby; it wouldn't matter if the parents were negligent dumbasses as well, since the baby would be considered the injured party, innocent of whatever choices the parents made.

[Albanyguy]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

there is no point in suing someone who has no insurance and no assets.  Malpractice attorneys receive a portion of the proceeds if they win as payment.  If they don’t win, they don’t get paid.  No malpractice attorney is going to take a case if there is no possibility of getting paid.  The average malpractice suit takes tens of thousands of dollars to pursue. Lawyers fees, depositions, experts; it is very expensive. 

True, and another point to consider is that these are Fundie mothers being attended by Fundie midwives. They are often bound by strict tribal loyalties and a belief system that promotes an "Us against the big, bad outside world" mentality.  If a Fundie midwife botches a home birth, few would question her competence because she's "one of us". If a mother like Tiffany actually considered filing a lawsuit against the midwife, chances are she would be talked out of it by those who have "authority" over her (her husband, her parents, her minister) because the midwife was a righteous, Godly woman and what happened was simply "God's will". I'm sure that many tragic cases like Tiffany's have been hushed up with no consequences for the midwife.

[GeeGolly]

Delivering moms aren't the experts at home or in a medical facility and mistakes happen in both places. But I'm thinking most moms delivering at home would take action if there's a discussion about a distressed baby. I have 3 friends who delivered at home, 2 of them had solid plans of when to go to the hospital and when to call 911. The 3rd one had no plan at all and actually lived on an island. All 3 babies were born without complications.

I just think there's too much at stake to take any chances and most OBs/hospitals these days allow the moms autonomy up until circumstances arise that need intervention. Personally I don't get it, because to me childbirth isn't romantic or even pleasant. Holding your newborn in your arms is one of the most awesome feelings ever and that was my goal when having my babies.

[louannems]

On 4/5/2018 at 6:23 AM, Madtown said:

It's not a double stroller for sure, but it could be one of those that has a place for a second child to stand on. My friend has one of those. Still a long way for poor Izzy to stand. If it's not one of those, that's just child abuse to make that kid walk that long in the hot sun. I'd slap her if I could.

On Pickles, there is a new photo of Jill and kids at the park.  Jill is going down a slide in a maxi skirt! Ridiculous since we know she wears jeans.

Also, there is a clear shot of the stroller and I can see it indeed has a standing place for Izzy.

[Absolom]

10 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Sorry I'm not keeping up!  Have Jill and Derrick left the dugger fold?  I always thought them the favored loves with the big houses from pops dugger.

Derick was never a Gothard/IBLP follower.  He attended Cross Church before, during, and after marrying Jill.  Jim Bob has wanted preaching/missionarying types for his daughters and hasn't been making sure the guys were quiverfull or Gothard oriented.  So we get Jill trained to follow her headship and he's been taking her to a regular SBC church and pushing that theology and value system.

[Nysha]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

True, and another point to consider is that these are Fundie mothers being attended by Fundie midwives. They are often bound by strict tribal loyalties and a belief system that promotes an "Us against the big, bad outside world" mentality.  If a Fundie midwife botches a home birth, few would question her competence because she's "one of us".

In addition to this, there are Bible verses against suing fellow Christians.

[OpieTaylor]

12 hours ago, graefin said:

Derick's posted another long live Insta story of him and Jill and the boys at a local park. Highlights: Jill starts the video off with a "yaaaaay"; Derick puns about recreational drug use in reference to Israel climbing on top of some play mushrooms; Israel gets another rock in his shoe; oh, and Jill speaks Spanish to Israel.

I watched this Insta story too and picked up that the park is in Rogers, AK, and Derick used to work there - as a teen, I guess - when there was a swimming pool there (it's gone now). And his cross country team used to run through the park. He really went on and on about a lot of nothing. Another episode of Everyday With Dullards!

I'm guessing that the Dullards were visiting Miss Cathy on another carefree long weekend with no jobs to worry about. 

[mynextmistake]

11 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Here’s an article:

https://www.inquisitr.com/2971135/mother-whose-baby-nearly-died-says-a-duggar-attended-her-homebirth-discusses-why-jill-dillards-midwife-trainer-lost-her-license/amp/

 

From the article:

According to Tiffany Nance, and minutes from the Arkansas State Board of Health confirm, Venessa Giron was the acting midwife for Tiffany when she gave birth to daughter Jozzie. The infant was born with a strep b infection, but according to Tiffany, it took two hours before midwife Venessa would transfer the baby to the hospital for treatment.

“She failed to recognize the signs of a group b strep infection then proceeded to not transfer her until 2 hours after the start of respiratory distress started. If my baby would have been treated within the first hour it could have prevented her near death and now cerebral palsy due to multiple brain bleeds.”

I have a ton of sympathy for this baby and none at all for this mother. Maybe that makes me a bad person, I don’t know. But unless Venessa and the apprentices were holding her captive, she could have called for an ambulance anytime. As a mother, it is your responsibility to make sure your children are looked after. This mother made a ton of choices along the way that ended up disabling her child, from not getting routine prenatal care (if she had, she would have known she was strep-b positive and would have received antibiotics during labor) to choosing to do a homebirth with poorly-trained lay midwives to following their suggestion to keep the baby at home even after it started showing signs of respiratory distress. If that were my kid, I would have been on the phone with 911 in a hot minute. But that would never have been my kid, because I cared enough about her safety to get prenatal care and have a doctor present when I gave birth. 

This woman and her fellow fundies disgust me. Fetuses are sacred, but babies are disposable.  Terrible priorities for terrible people. 

[Absolom]

Every time this story comes up, my first question is why didn't the mother or whoever was with her just call 911.  My second question is why didn't Jill or one of the others slip to the bathroom and make the call.

[Vaysh]

14 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Every time this story comes up, my first question is why didn't the mother or whoever was with her just call 911.  My second question is why didn't Jill or one of the others slip to the bathroom and make the call.

It might have something to do with their authoritarian fundamentalist culture. If, like Jill, these people were brought up in an environment of instant obedience and strict hierarchies disobeying Venessa's instructions might feel difficult or even impossible, especially in a stressful situation like this when a lot of people tend to revert back to what they know. I don't think Jill would ever question something someone in charge told her to do as long as that person belonged to her in-group. She didn't have the critical thinking skills to discard Venessa's teachings when it came to her own childbirths even when there was clearly something wrong, so I don't see her capable of doing it during another woman's labour.

[Zella]

12 hours ago, Catfin said:

Nose piercing is not limited to fundies. DD is 17 many, many of her friends have a pierced nostril. She keeps asking. We keep saying no. 

It honestly doesn't surprise me when non-fundies have their noses pierced (I have several friends who have them), though it's never personally appealed to me. It just shocks me when fundies have it because it seems like only a few years ago, it was verboten in that culture. The Christian college I went to, which was pretty fundy, outright banned any facial piercings as part of the dress code. 

[Absolom]

Venessa didn't seem to be Jill's midwife at least not with Israel.  She had one of her fellow midwife trainees with her.  She went her own way and didn't even call the licensed midwife that she'd been seeing.  I will never understand such cowed mentality that would allow for a child to die or close to die because of some ridiculous to me idea of "authority."

I was in an emergency situation after the birth of one of my children.  The nurse kept telling me I'd be fine and they didn't need to call the doctor.  Even though I was going into shock I demanded a phone and called the doctor's house myself.  The charge nurse showed up and was going to take me to task until she saw all the blood and she stopped cold and began yelling orders.  I guess I'm the opposite of a fundy. 

[floridamom]

RE: this botched home birth that Jill assisted Vanessa with? Where was the husband? Why didn't HE call an ambulance for his wife and child?

[Nysha]

12 hours ago, Absolom said:

Venessa didn't seem to be Jill's midwife at least not with Israel.  She had one of her fellow midwife trainees with her.  She went her own way and didn't even call the licensed midwife that she'd been seeing.  I will never understand such cowed mentality that would allow for a child to die or close to die because of some ridiculous to me idea of "authority."

My state has a whole town which is peopled by a religious cult that is based on faith healing and forbids doctors even in emergencies. Their children die from ear infections, infected bug bites, stepping on rusty nails, and the measles and they have enough clout to make sure our state laws protect their right to kill their own children by medical neglect. 

[louannems]

Derick is at it with his Twitter again.  He's retweeted a John Piper quote against homosexual sins.  Why can't he just stay quiet.

[EVS]

19 minutes ago, louannems said:

Derick is at it with his Twitter again.  He's retweeted a John Piper quote against homosexual sins.  Why can't he just stay quiet.

Maybe he is struggling with impure thoughts after viewing Lawson Bates’ latest social media pictures. 

[lascuba]

14 hours ago, Absolom said:

Venessa didn't seem to be Jill's midwife at least not with Israel.  She had one of her fellow midwife trainees with her.  She went her own way and didn't even call the licensed midwife that she'd been seeing.  I will never understand such cowed mentality that would allow for a child to die or close to die because of some ridiculous to me idea of "authority."

 

And wasn't it Venessa who released a statement claiming she had nothing to do with Israel's birth and strongly implying  that Jill and her team fucked up? And now Jill's working with her again. I guess that shows she's not a hypocrite with the whole forgiveness thing but, god, these people are so fucking wierd. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

Derick is at it with his Twitter again.  He's retweeted a John Piper quote against homosexual sins.  Why can't he just stay quiet.

Yikes, they take both halves out of the middle. How gracious of them (sarcasm). And they threw in the slippery slope angle too.

I'm guessing Derick posted it to defend his bullying.