Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[bigskygirl]

Really Cathy people who choose Jesus do not always end up in heaven. Derick is not honoring his father by being a selfish, lazy, obnoxious, know it all, grifting bigot. A real husband and father do not blame others for his mistakes and actions, and works hard to support their wife and children instead of hiding behind the bible and expecting others to pay his way. Your late husband is probably rolling over in his grave because of Derick and you defending him instead of looking at the whole picture and seeing he needs help.

Edited January 18, 2018 by bigskygirl
Pesky grammar

[jcbrown]

11 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

Really Cathy people who choose Jesus do not always end up in heaven. Derick is not honoring his father by being a selfish, lazy, obnoxious, know it all, grifting bigot. A real husband and father do not blame others for their mistakes and actions, and work hard to support their wife and children instead of hiding behind the bible and expecting others to pay their way. Your late husband is probably rolling over in his grave because of Derick and you defending him instead of looking at the whole picture and seeing he needs help.

I wish I could like this more than once.

[Totally]

12 hours ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

 

Why is there rice milk? Why are there dates? Dates are used as a sugar substitute, and recipes that are vegan and without any refined sugar can go hand in hand, but sugar in of itself is not animal based. 

I suspect she picked the first vegan banana bread recipes she saw and went with it.

My children often help me in the kitchen. I usually veganize recipes so I don't have to worry about if they sample the batter. But, I don't let them anywhere near food that I am making for someone else. I don't have a problem with Israel's standing on the chair. I do have a problem if he "helped" and it was served to others.

While sugar isn’t animal based the process used to refine sugar is often  animal based,I have three vegans so have learnt a lot about veganism

[kalamac]

5 hours ago, birkenstock said:

If Sam had to be dairy-free or has digestive issues would Jill then have to avoid dairy even in baked goods?  Wouldn't he still be exclusively breastfeeding or just beginning to eat solids?  I hope if Sam does have digestive issues that they take greater care monitoring his diet than the Duggars did with Josie.  I remember them saying she had a dairy allergy and then she was seen with eating ice cream or yogurt. 

My niece was so lactose intolerant she couldn't even have breast milk as a baby, she had to be on a lactose free formula, and once she'd started solids, they cooked with soy milk. Could be Sam has similar issues.

[graefin]

8 hours ago, birkenstock said:

@graefin I had no idea they used bones as filters.  Do you feel comfortable eating at non-vegetarian/vegan restaurants?  It's so weird that animal products are added to things you never would think to check.

My preference is to eat at vegan restaurants, but I sometimes eat at nonvegan ones if there is a separate vegan menu (or items marked as vegan), or if I feel I can trust the ingredients.

[birkenstock]

14 minutes ago, graefin said:

My preference is to eat at vegan restaurants, but I sometimes eat at nonvegan ones if there is a separate vegan menu (or items marked as vegan), or if I feel I can trust the ingredients.

Thanks for your response.  I've been surprised reading how restaurants prepare dishes and what is added to foods I assumed were vegetarian and was wondering how vegans navigate dining out. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 minutes ago, birkenstock said:

Thanks for your response.  I've been surprised reading how restaurants prepare dishes and what is added to foods I assumed were vegetarian and was wondering how vegans navigate dining out. 

It’s always best to ask. Tex Mex is extremely popular in Texas, so it’s always best to ask whether or not there’s lard, pork fat, bacon, chicken broth, etc in the beans and toppings of enchiladas. The meatless specials aren’t always meatless. Houston has a large Muslim and Hindu contingent, and they aren't afraid to ask questions and the restaurants are always happy to accommodate their needs. 

[GeeGolly]

Just wanted to give a shout out to you posters discussing food/diet because this topic can at times be as volatile as politics.

Just last week I was dining with some colleagues and ordered a big fat juicy cheeseburger. A colleague was like, "How can you eat that poor cow?", my response, which I will blame on hunger was, "I don't know, why don't you ask your purse, belt and shoes."

Really my attitude is whatever works for anyone in regard to food is good, but this chick pissed me off.

[Arwen Evenstar]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Just wanted to give a shout out to you posters discussing food/diet because this topic can at times be as volatile as politics.

Just last week I was dining with some colleagues and ordered a big fat juicy cheeseburger. A colleague was like, "How can you eat that poor cow?", my response, which I will blame on hunger was, "I don't know, why don't you ask your purse, belt and shoes."

Really my attitude is whatever works for anyone in regard to food is good, but this chick pissed me off.

I get how tense that can be, and it can be like discussing politics. I’d love to be a vegan, but I had to give up even vegetarianism with dairy and eggs and fish because I wasn’t doing it properly. Bread is not a vegetable.  After years of not getting enough iron and protein and too many carbs, my body could not deal.  I admire anyone who can do it, and we’d all do well to eat more plant based foods.

Jilly Muffin is already sanctimonious enough. I’d like to see her make healthier food choices and feed her kids good foods and of course it’s always good to try new things. I would love to see boob’s head exploding as he tries to eat Tofurkey.

[AnnieBeez]

18 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Just wanted to give a shout out to you posters discussing food/diet because this topic can at times be as volatile as politics.

Just last week I was dining with some colleagues and ordered a big fat juicy cheeseburger. A colleague was like, "How can you eat that poor cow?", my response, which I will blame on hunger was, "I don't know, why don't you ask your purse, belt and shoes."

Really my attitude is whatever works for anyone in regard to food is good, but this chick pissed me off.

I choose to believe that the leather for my shoes is from a DEAD [whew] cow NOT killed for its leather. I'm hesitant to research "cow leather" though. I may be deluding myself. 

OT: I was under the impression that Jill was making the vegan banana bread for the student group. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by PuhLeeze
eeek! no skinning live cows!

[kalamac]

18 minutes ago, PuhLeeze said:

I choose to believe that the leather for my shoes is from a cow NOT killed for its leather. I'm hesitant to research "cow leather" though. I may be deluding myself. 

OT: I was under the impression that Jill was making the vegan banana bread for the student group. 

I think that would be worse, because it sounds like the cow was skinned alive.

 

I really think that if the Duggars had had a normal upbringing, Jill would be the one who moved to a modern day hippie commune, selling scarves and wonky macrame plant hangers at farmers markets, encouraging people to come and join their yoga classes, and of course still handing off the childcare to whomever in the commune embraces the ‘it takes a village’ approach to child rearing.

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Just wanted to give a shout out to you posters discussing food/diet because this topic can at times be as volatile as politics.

Just last week I was dining with some colleagues and ordered a big fat juicy cheeseburger. A colleague was like, "How can you eat that poor cow?", my response, which I will blame on hunger was, "I don't know, why don't you ask your purse, belt and shoes."

Really my attitude is whatever works for anyone in regard to food is good, but this chick pissed me off.

True!  I have a friend who was vegetarian for about two decades, and for all of them, we tactfully assumed she had political reasons for not eating meat, and just worked around them when going out.  After marriage to an unrepentant carnivore, she started eating meat, and confessed pretty promptly that the primary reason she went veggie in the first place, is because it grossed her out to handle/cook raw meat as a single woman, plus budgetary reasons.  I also had a roommate once who pretty much used vegetarianism as an excuse to live off bricks of cheese, Cheese Doodles, and Baby Ruth candy bars; and I remember seeing her through two moves years apart, where the same box of lentils followed her uneaten.

So yeah, I no longer assume that all proclaimed vegetarians have a deep commitment to a healthy lifestyle and/or political rationale backing them up.

Edited January 18, 2018 by queenanne

[graefin]

2 hours ago, PuhLeeze said:

I choose to believe that the leather for my shoes is from a cow NOT killed for its leather. I'm hesitant to research "cow leather" though. I may be deluding myself. 

That's irrelevant to the point of the original post, which is that the person criticizing her for eating a cow while she herself was wearing the skin of one was a hypocrite. Which is 100% true. There is no moral difference between eating the flesh of an animal or wearing the skin of one (or using them in any other way). This is the basis for veganism.

And leather is a profitable industry in itself--a lot of it is imported from cows from other countries like India and China to meet demand.

[WhineandCheez]

I think once the Mod wakes up we all will be dinged for being OTT on the vegan convo.

Cathy telling everyone to turn to Jesus so you won't go to Hell when you die--this has always perplexed me.  I would think Jesus/God would want you to love him for his own sake, not to avoid Hell??

[madpsych78]

Honestly, I'm waiting for the day when the response to a question like "How can you eat that poor cow?" is a smart-alecky question like "How can you eat that poor plant?" by some meat lover who will attempt to counter-argue based on the grounds that plants are organisms too. I believe food choices should be based on health benefits, because when you get down to it, all healthy food comes from living things in some way, shape or form.

In the meantime, Jill seems like Derick yet in other ways seems so different. I think that picture of them at Joystin's house says it all (Derick looking half asleep and stoned, Jill looking bright-eyed and overly happy).

Edited January 18, 2018 by madpsych78
Attempting to stay on topic

[frenchtoast]

16 minutes ago, WhineandCheez said:

I think once the Mod wakes up we all will be dinged for being OTT on the vegan convo.

It's getting pretty close. To adapt Romeo and Juliet, "Get ye to the Prayer Closet!" And don't forget, you can copy the text of the person you wish to reply to, paste it in the Prayer Closet and @ mention them for good measure. (There has to be a way to get the so-and-so said in the quote box but I don't know how to do it.)

Thanks, everyone!

[yogi2014L]

Jill and Derick will never be vegan because it takes a lot of effort and planning. 

She probably just through she was being hip and cool by making a vegan recipe. 

[Aja]

12 hours ago, ginger90 said:

It's so touching and special and sweet how Cathy uses the untimely death of  her husband and the father of her children as an opportunity to shake her Jesus pointy finger in our faces. Never a missed opportunity, eh Cathy?

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, kalamac said:

 

I really think that if the Duggars had had a normal upbringing, Jill would be the one who moved to a modern day hippie commune, selling scarves and wonky macrame plant hangers at farmers markets, encouraging people to come and join their yoga classes, and of course still handing off the childcare to whomever in the commune embraces the ‘it takes a village’ approach to child rearing.

I agree. I think "crunchy granola" is her true personality and not an identity she's trying on for size. Since Jill functions best in a crowd, I can see her thriving in a communal living environment.

[zoomama]

' people who choose Jesus do not always end up in heaven.'

 

i have to disagree. that is all. 

[madpsych78]

55 minutes ago, zoomama said:

' people who choose Jesus do not always end up in heaven.'

 

i have to disagree. that is all. 

It depends on what is meant by "choosing Jesus." Derick and Cathy claim to choose Jesus but I believe a lot of their actions of late go against what Jesus would have done in his time, and thus, I'm not confident that they will end up in heaven. There are many other individuals out there who implicitly choose Jesus based on the actions they carry out (i.e., helping the poor and needy, loving and tolerating others), thereby emulating Jesus's actions, and IMO they will likely end up in heaven.

[bigskygirl]

14 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

It depends on what is meant by "choosing Jesus." Derick and Cathy claim to choose Jesus but I believe a lot of their actions of late go against what Jesus would have done in his time, and thus, I'm not confident that they will end up in heaven. There are many other individuals out there who implicitly choose Jesus based on the actions they carry out (i.e., helping the poor and needy, loving and tolerating others), thereby emulating Jesus's actions, and IMO they will likely end up in heaven.

This was what I meant to say. Thank you. I think Derick's dad went to heaven because he lead by example by going into law enforcement. He helped people at some of their lowest times in their lives. He put his life on the line to protect and serve. I, of course, cannot say the real reason why he went into this type of work, but officers usually do it because they want to help others. Derick clings to Jesus in order to promote his own agenda. He can be narrow minded when it comes to the rights of others. Jesus lead by the example of loving all types of people. He did not pick and choose his words in order to promote his hidden agenda *cough* Duggar clan, Derick, Cathy *cough* He tried not to spread the hate Derick embraces on a daily basis.

[GeeGolly]

I'm not 100% sure I truly know what choosing Jesus means, but I know some non religious folks who are kind, gracious, loving, giving, etc. I strongly believe if there is a heaven or something of the like and the key to getting in is having those traits they'll be welcome before someone like Derick who uses Jesus to spread hate and division, even if they don't pray or embrace Jesus or God. 

[Vaysh]

As an outsider (and atheist) I have to admit to being somewhat confused by American right wing Christians and people like the Duggars and their spouses because they make such a huge song and dance about how much they love Jesus, how religious they are, how they live by biblical principles, how they pray to Jesus about every little thing and so on. And yet when when you look a bit closer, it seems like a lot what they actually do and say and vote for just goes against the things Jesus preached.

I am an atheist but I agree with a lot of the things Jesus said and did and I try to live my life according to several Christian principles even though I tend to think of them as universal and humanist rather than Christian. But, to me, the Duggars and their ilk look a lot like the hypocrites and Pharisees that Jesus criticised and denounced.

So, how do you get into heaven here? Is it enough to say you love Jesus and think you behave in the manner Jesus preached even if you are not really doing it, or do you have to actually walk the walk so to speak? Because if it's the latter I think most of the Duggars, Derrick being a prime example, might be up for a surprise. (I don't actually believe that of course, because atheist). I mean, I know that Evangelicals focus on faith rather than works, but do they genuinely believe that you can do and speak and vote against the actual teachings of Christ, and still get into heaven as long as you believe in Jesus? Because that... doesn't make sense to me. It just seems like a get out of jail free card to be a horrible person. Or am I missing something here?

 

ETA: To be clear, I'm not snarking, this is something that has genuinely baffled me for years and I don't personally know any Christians of this type to ask. I live in the land of mild-mannered Lutherans who put rainbow carpets in the aisles of their churches in support of gay rights. Even our Evangelicals tend to be fairly harmless, if somewhat less socially liberal than most.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Vaysh

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, Vaysh said:

As an outsider (and atheist) I have to admit to being somewhat confused by American right wing Christians and people like the Duggars and their spouses because they make such a huge song and dance about how much they love Jesus, how religious they are, how they live by biblical principles, how they pray to Jesus about every little thing and so on. And yet when when you look a bit closer, it seems like a lot what they actually do and say and vote for just goes against the things Jesus preached.

I am an atheist but I agree with a lot of the things Jesus said and did and I try to live my life according to several Christian principles even though I tend to think of them as universal and humanist rather than Christian. But, to me, the Duggars and their ilk look a lot like the hypocrites and Pharisees that Jesus criticised and denounced.

So, how do you get into heaven here? Is it enough to say you love Jesus and think you behave in the manner Jesus preached even if you are not really doing it, or do you have to actually walk the walk so to speak? Because if it's the latter I think most of the Duggars, Derrick being a prime example, might be up for a surprise. (I don't actually believe that of course, because atheist). I mean, I know that Evangelicals focus on faith rather than works, but do they genuinely believe that you can do and speak and vote against the actual teachings of Christ, and still get into heaven as long as you believe in Jesus? Because that... doesn't make sense to me. It just seems like a get out of jail free card to be a horrible person. Or am I missing something here?

 

ETA: To be clear, I'm not snarking, this is something that has genuinely baffled me for years and I don't personally know any Christians of this type to ask. I live in the land of mild-mannered Lutherans who put rainbow carpets in the aisles of their churches in support of gay rights. Even our Evangelicals tend to be fairly harmless, if somewhat less socially liberal than most.

I would say Christians of the Duggar stripe would say that there is no point in the sort of "I believe that I-follow-Christ because basically I'm not a Satanist", type of Christianity, where Jesus is seen as functioning on the same "good person" level as Buddha or Mohammed.  They absolutely believe the New Testament words of Christ, when he said "no man can know God or be considered a child of God, except by approaching God through me" (major paraphrase).  Duggar types would absolutely agree when asked flat out that deeds are important, and they probably think in many ways that they are behaving perfectly, or at least striving to behave perfectly. 

Other Christians who believe along the same fundamental(ist) lines as the Duggars, yet who are not Duggar-esque, can probably see that the Duggars are not behaving anywhere near perfectly, and in fact many disagree with Christians in the public eye who do and say sanctimonious and hypocritical things, like the Duggars did after the Josh scandals.  These Christians would maintain it is equally important to practice humility and other similar virtues daily and in tandem, along with a profession of faith in Christ. 

If the Duggars were being honest about the Josh situation, IMO, they would have been better off coming out into the public eye and saying "like the Bible says, pride often heralds a fall.  This is our fall from grace due to overconfidence.  Clearly we shouldn't have braggily held ourselves above the common standard and preached at people for decades about how they're doing Christianity wrong."  But, of course to do so would have damaged their brand and rendered them null in interest as a commodity in the public eye, so they did not... does that answer a bit of the question?

Edited January 19, 2018 by queenanne

[ginger90]

Link to Instagram has the rest, and pictures.

Edited January 19, 2018 by ginger90

[RazzleberryPie]

19 hours ago, zoomama said:

' people who choose Jesus do not always end up in heaven.'

 

i have to disagree. that is all. 

I’m with you, when this is put into correct context. This could end up a huge theology discusssion, but the point of faith vs works = sincerely trusting in Jesus as your savior means that you’ll make some human mistakes, but He is faithful to his promises, which mean you’ll go to heaven when you die. 

It may not be fair, that people who do some really nasty things, whether intentionally or by accident, still receive God’s grace, but most faith vs works is a huge theological deal for true evangelical  Christians (not necessarily Modern Evangelical in a political sense). 

This isn’t factoring in cultural or ‘I have to check the box and we live in America and do Christmas’ Christians, or whatever people who scream CHRISTIAN but have no clue what they actually believe. 

[queenanne]

20 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I’m with you, when this is put into correct context. This could end up a huge theology discusssion, but the point of faith vs works = sincerely trusting in Jesus as your savior means that you’ll make some human mistakes, but He is faithful to his promises, which mean you’ll go to heaven when you die. 

It may not be fair, that people who do some really nasty things, whether intentionally or by accident, still receive God’s grace, but most faith vs works is a huge theological deal for true evangelical  Christians (not necessarily Modern Evangelical in a political sense). 

This isn’t factoring in cultural or ‘I have to check the box and we live in America and do Christmas’ Christians, or whatever people who scream CHRISTIAN but have no clue what they actually believe. 

I feel like a big underlying point is, "Christians defined as those who accept Christ", are supposed to back it up with behaving with personal sacrifice.  It's deceptively easy, and sounds deceptively easy, but I don't know where the trope that it's supposed to be deceptively easy, started sneaking into the equation of evangelicals.  If the linchpin of the faith is that "Christ sacrificed his life so that mankind might live", Christians need to then strive to live better lives as a result of accepting Christ's sacrifice. 

Which is not necessarily the same thing as "salvation by works".  But some evangelicals appear to have mixed up "saved through grace and not mankind's works", to interpret it as if all then should throw up their hands and drift passively through life, being borne to and fro by the currents, so as not to be accused of "trying to earn their way to heaven". 

When in reality, they should be espousing the better behavior for the sake of the better behavior standard and what it brings to the lives of those around them.

Edited January 19, 2018 by queenanne

[yogi2014L]

2 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Link to Instagram has the rest, and pictures.

Dericks dad was an attractive guy! Had a very nice body too lol! Derick doesn't take after him at all physically, except maybe for height?  I wonder if Jilly was defrauded...

[GeeGolly]

I'm am very curious too @Vaysh. The way the Duggars explain it all sins are equal, from lusting in your heart to actually having an affair. If we compare Jill's and Derick's parenting with the Turpins are their sins seen equally and forgiven equally because both families embrace Jesus?

And believe I read/heard Jill stating that when Josh sinned against his sisters he accepted Jesus again and repented. Does that mean Jesus knows when one is pretending to embrace him and Josh tried to embrace Jesus again for real?

I guess I always assumed that one must walk the walk in addition to talking the talk.

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

And believe I read/heard Jill stating that when Josh sinned against his sisters he accepted Jesus again and repented. Does that mean Jesus knows when one is pretending to embrace him and Josh tried to embrace Jesus again for real?

When someone “gets saved” at the age of 3, I don’t think they really understand what it means.  This is exactly why the bar/bat mitzvah and confirmation happen at “an age of understanding” after attending extensive classes on what it means to be a good Jew or a good Christian.  Josh may have had a better understanding of what “accepting Jesus” means at 15 instead of 3.

[kokapetl]

2 hours ago, yogi2014L said:

Dericks dad was an attractive guy! Had a very nice body too lol! Derick doesn't take after him at all physically, except maybe for height?  I wonder if Jilly was defrauded...

He looked like Jeff Daniels. A shirtless Jeff Daniels. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

When someone “gets saved” at the age of 3, I don’t think they really understand what it means.  This is exactly why the bar/bat mitzvah and confirmation happen at “an age of understanding” after attending extensive classes on what it means to be a good Jew or a good Christian.  Josh may have had a better understanding of what “accepting Jesus” means at 15 instead of 3.

And even more of an understanding at 25? Like how many times can one get saved before Jesus says, "Next."

[bigskygirl]

1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

He looked like Jeff Daniels. A shirtless Jeff Daniels. 

Jill is probably more disappointed Derick does not look like his dad at all, or the strong work ethic his dad had, or the kindness and respect he had also. I will now attempt to walk on the ice on the way to the Prayer Closet.

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm am very curious too @Vaysh. The way the Duggars explain it all sins are equal, from lusting in your heart to actually having an affair. If we compare Jill's and Derick's parenting with the Turpins are their sins seen equally and forgiven equally because both families embrace Jesus?

And believe I read/heard Jill stating that when Josh sinned against his sisters he accepted Jesus again and repented. Does that mean Jesus knows when one is pretending to embrace him and Josh tried to embrace Jesus again for real?

I guess I always assumed that one must walk the walk in addition to talking the talk.

I can’t source it at the moment, but I’m pretty sure there’s a verse which says ‘God knows the heart.’  Also a definite ‘there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed’, and ‘Be not deceived, God is not mocked.’  

Which is a longer way to say, Just because a person tells you that God has forgiven them, does not mean it is so in the eyes of God.  That’s between the putative self-claimed ‘confessed sinner’ and God.  

[PradaKitty]

Do we know what Derrick’s dad suddenly died of?  (Aka cause of death).

[SMama]

Israel is a clone of toddler Derick, hopefully he won’t end up looking like his asshole father as an adult.

Edited January 19, 2018 by SMama

[bigskygirl]

36 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

Do we know what Derrick’s dad suddenly died of?  (Aka cause of death).

I think he died from a heart attack.

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Israel is a clone of toddler Derick, hopefully he won’t end up looking like his asshole father as an adult.

Derick wasn’t a bad looking young man until he had that disastrous jaw surgery.  But, he’s got some VERY UGLY WAYS that detract from him.

[SMama]

You are right, I should have focused on Derelict’s black soul.

Edited January 19, 2018 by SMama

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

Israel is a clone of toddler Derick, hopefully he won’t end up looking like his asshole father as an adult.

He sort of is, then I see a toddler pick of Jill and think the same thing.

Baby Samuel's newest picture looked a bit like Jessa.

[SMama]

You are right, that’s the tragic result of inbreeding. Off to the prayer closet I go with homemade picó the gallo, tortilla chips, guac, and agua frescas. Channeling dinner.

[Natalie68]

17 minutes ago, SMama said:

You are right, that’s the tragic result of inbreeding. Off to the prayer closet I go with homemade picó the gallo, tortilla chips, guac, and agua frescas. Channeling dinner.

Count me in!  I will follow anyone with these yummy snacks!!!

[Absolom]

This is a brief part of what Derick hears and reads regularly along with a lot of other evangelicals:

Quote

Good works will not get you into Heaven; you must have a personal relationship with Jesus. In Matthew 7:22-23, Jesus said, concerning Judgement Day, "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Those people thought that because they did good things in the name of Jesus they could get into Heaven. Instead, Jesus surprised them by saying, "I never knew you."

Therefore, don't get so caught up in your good works that you forget to know God. Make it your goal to seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well (Matthew 6:33).

If all of your good works have made you so busy that you don't spend any time with God, then those good works have become bad works, because they are replacing your time with God.

It doesn't justify Derick's attacks, but it does give him a lot of latitude on not doing positive actions.

[Vaysh]

11 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I’m with you, when this is put into correct context. This could end up a huge theology discusssion, but the point of faith vs works = sincerely trusting in Jesus as your savior means that you’ll make some human mistakes, but He is faithful to his promises, which mean you’ll go to heaven when you die. 

So when Jesus says 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ and vice versa and then there's the whole thing about goats and sheep and left and right sides; does that mean that the goats will be let into heaven as long as they genuinely believed they were behaving like sheep? Or will they be herded to the left? Because I think the Duggars are a prime example of goats believing they are sheep.
 

ETA: Just reading @Absolom 's post above makes me horribly confused. There appears to be some contradiction here. I guess that is good news for Derrick, he can behave in ever which way he likes and still claim to be a good Christian.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Vaysh

[RazzleberryPie]

4 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

So when Jesus says 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ and vice versa and then there's the whole thing about goats and sheep and left and right sides; does that mean that the goats will be let into heaven as long as they genuinely believed they were behaving like sheep? Or will they be herded to the left? Because I think the Duggars are a prime example of goats believing they are sheep.
 

I think God can tell the difference in a spiritual goat vs sheep. I don’t even want to try to tackle God’s job of deciding who goes where. I’d probably send a lot of people to the wrong places. 

Anyway.... I think we all can agree that Derrick and Jill are idiots. 

[DangerousMinds]

42 minutes ago, Absolom said:

This is a brief part of what Derick hears and reads regularly along with a lot of other evangelicals:

It doesn't justify Derick's attacks, but it does give him a lot of latitude on not doing positive actions.

As a former Catholic, this makes no sense to me.

[Jynnan tonnix]

16 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

So when Jesus says 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ and vice versa and then there's the whole thing about goats and sheep and left and right sides; does that mean that the goats will be let into heaven as long as they genuinely believed they were behaving like sheep? Or will they be herded to the left? Because I think the Duggars are a prime example of goats believing they are sheep.
 

ETA: Just reading @Absolom 's post above makes me horribly confused. There appears to be some contradiction here. I guess that is good news for Derrick, he can behave in ever which way he likes and still claim to be a good Christian.

It all still really doesn't solve the problem of the Christian belief that will damn a devout Buddhist who never knowingly harmed a fly to eternal torture while forgiving the most heinous of rapists and murderers who genuinely repent on their deathbeds. I actually don't have any problem with anyone of any religion or lack thereof going to heaven if they repent of any ill they have done to another, except that I really don't much believe i heaven to begin with. Eternity is an awfully long time to be in ANY situation, even unending bliss, if you come to think of it. Good, evil, life, death, the afterlife...all of it makes so much more sense when you look at it without some sort of supreme being at the helm with a plan which seems to wildly differ depending on your situation and point of view. So many unanswerable questions which become simple as soon as you drop the notion that there needs to be a reason for everything.

Not trying to raise any disagreement...for those whose beliefs bring them comfort, more power to you. It must be kind of nice to have that, but I just don't seem to be wired that way.

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, Vaysh said:

So when Jesus says 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ and vice versa and then there's the whole thing about goats and sheep and left and right sides; does that mean that the goats will be let into heaven as long as they genuinely believed they were behaving like sheep? Or will they be herded to the left? Because I think the Duggars are a prime example of goats believing they are sheep.
 

ETA: Just reading @Absolom 's post above makes me horribly confused. There appears to be some contradiction here. I guess that is good news for Derrick, he can behave in ever which way he likes and still claim to be a good Christian.

It's/they're really good questions, which then dip into, I think, the "understanding of grace", as in "the theological virtues and qualities of grace".  Which is basically "God saves any unworthy sinner who sincerely asks, by His grace, because grace is a thing that only God can bestow".  "God sees and knows the heart", is another thing you'll get told, which sounds like a convenient bunkum excuse but again, it's not for us to judge them.  (I mean, we can and probably do make judgments; but God definitely will, in this theology, is the point.) 

The Bible also contains good verses about not causing your fellow man to stumble and/or sin by your own hypocritical behavior, such as 1 Corinthians 10: 32-34 (bolding mine):

…So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God. Do not become a stumbling block, whether to Jews or Greeks or the church of God, just as I try to please everyone in all I do. For I am not seeking my own good, but the good of many, that they may be saved.…

"Jews and Greeks" meaning "even the heathen, of course".

So, I would say that the Bible does say to have and take responsibility for the well-being of your fellow man, whether "churched or unchurched", "saved or not-saved".

Edited January 20, 2018 by queenanne

[GeeGolly]

Well, I'm going to stick to being a nice person and hope that God enjoys a little snark now and then.