Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Absolom]

13 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

But the people in his world aren't going to think Star Wars or Star Trek. As I keep harping on (and harping and harping), I've been talking to these folks. And they talk just like Derick in these tweets. And they totally share his "ideas" about transgender and related issues. And many of them look like "ordinary" professionals and hold down jobs that we absolutely don't think nut jobs are holding. But some are!..... You would not believe how normal most of these folks look and seem until you start talking to them about this stuff. 

One of the first things I said about Derick's tweet was that it was not shocking or surprising to me at all.  To add to the no shock value, I have visited AR many, many times and I would hear remarks like that daily and sometimes hourly.  Many people there assume what to us would be bigoted turd to be normal - many more so proportionally than where I live.  

[Missy Vixen]

10 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

But the people in his world aren't going to think Star Wars or Star Trek. As I keep harping on (and harping and harping), I've been talking to these folks. And they talk just like Derick in these tweets. And they totally share his "ideas" about transgender and related issues. And many of them look like "ordinary" professionals and hold down jobs that we absolutely don't think nut jobs are holding. But some are!..... You would not believe how normal most of these folks look and seem until you start talking to them about this stuff. 

 

 

Ask me about the 20 rounds I fought trying to get the local public high school to rename the "Father-Daughter Dance" this past spring to something more inclusive. The teacher/advisor in charge is a fundie. They refused. It's a matter of time until they are successfully sued for a significant amount of money because they also sent out a dress code for prom attire stating that "boys will dress like boys and girls will dress like girls" as well. And yes, I made that point with the school superintendent. 

The people in Triple D's world have been repopulating school boards, city governments, executive offices, political office and most other influential positions in our country for the past 30 years. They believe they have the green light to proceed with their agenda. Triple D thinks he's really striking a blow for Christianity. He's actually provided TLC with a huge reason to stop filming (and paying) the Dillards.

[DangerousMinds]

Does anyone think they have "converted" even one Catholic?

[Lunera]

A few months Cathy commented on a Fox news reporters page(Tucker?) saying that she changed the channel on his interview with Bruce Jenner. The reporter had referred to her as Caitlyn Jenner and Cathy still chose to misgender her. 

Kendra's dad also preaches that gay people don't exist. 

"Does God love Homosexuals?"  "This is a flawed question ... There are no such things as Homosexuals." 

[humbleopinion]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4757330/Derick-Dillard-attacks-transgender-teenager-Jazz-Jennings.html

Counting On editors need to scrub all traces of the Dillys out of the upcoming episodes.

Or will the backlash finally cause TLC to remove the Duggs from their programming altogether...

We shall see...

[ThinkerBell]

14 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4757330/Derick-Dillard-attacks-transgender-teenager-Jazz-Jennings.html

Counting On editors need to scrub all traces of the Dillys out of the upcoming episodes.

Or will the backlash finally cause TLC to remove the Duggs from their programming altogether...

We shall see...

They should, but they won't. For every Duggar/Dillard that they remove from TLC programming, there are at least 20 more willing to take their place. The Duggars have said that their show, in whatever permutation TLC allows, is their ministry. The show is nothing more than a judgemental soapbox for them to to tell others that they are doing Christianity wrong.

Edited August 6, 2017 by ThinkerBell

[babyhouseman]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I'll go with a 5% chance it's true. Who saw Josh coming? It certainly explains why he was away from Jill in DA, and even some of Jill's craziness. If anything happened, I think it would've been hooking up, not murder. Maybe he just banged local female hookers with donation money. That's much more believable then Dexter Dillard.

 

Hes just an asshole and Jill is a fool.

I wonder if he could get away with more in a foreign country? Not murder but hooking up?

[Scarlett45]

10 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

I wonder if he could get away with more in a foreign country? Not murder but hooking up?

Of course he could get away with more. Especially in a country like El Salvador- the power differential is so much greater! A white American with resources wants something from (for example) an el Salvadoran citizen who is in need of funds? Ummm yeah. (Not insinuating all Salvadoran persons are impoverished or would end up in that situation). 

[leighdear]

Flood the "Counting On" Facebook page.  We know TCL are a bunch of wimps, but there are almost 1300 comments about Derrick's stupid loud mouth.  And no Duggars able to delete comments!

https://www.facebook.com/countingontlc/

Edited August 5, 2017 by leighdear

[GeeGolly]

I have never doubted that this world is filled with a lot of Dericks, but much like @Marigold said, most aren't stupidly, publicly bold. And the one's that are are called out just like Derick. Social media has almost made political correctness an unobtainable goal.

What Derick and the Duggars believe has never been hidden. Every show they've done has shown their backwards views of women, children, politics and the world at large. I was not shocked when Michelle robocalled against inclusive bathrooms. The family has never hidden their views on sexual orientation or even gender roles. And Ben & Derick have posted stupid shit all along.

If Derick's post was a general anti-transgender post I would not have been surprised at all. What did surprise me was his arrogant stupidity in calling his employer a hypocrite and naming a child in a hateful post. And then to follow it up with religious ranting.

When my kids began experimenting with swear words they knew the words held some sort of power. I allowed them to experiment with them, however also told them never to aim a swear at a person. Because stick & stones break bones and words can sometimes hurt even worse.

[duggarshow]

On 8/3/2017 at 9:21 PM, mythoughtis said:

I'm the Lone Ranger, I guess, in that Jazz and her parents put her in the public eye with every public event they've done and now the show. They put a minor up for public comments.   Pretty much the same way the Duggars put out their own children in the public eye. This forum is full of people questioning the children's sexual orientation( which the mods try to keep a lid on), comments ridiculing the Children's looks, dress, developmental issues ( Josie).  That's bullying too. We all know the reality 'stars' read this forum just like they do Twitter.  What makes it ok here and wrong on twitter? 

Every. Single. Bit. Of. This. 

[Sew Sumi]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

He did. And wasn't it over them allowing trans boys to join? 

I think it was just homosexual kids that he picked on in the Boy Scout incident. I'm pretty sure this is the first time he's singled out transgender teens. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Oldernowiser]

1 hour ago, duggarfan said:

Every. Single. Bit. Of. This. 

The major difference is that the posters on this board aren't celebrities. We aren't being touted as authorities on anything, let alone all things familial, spiritual, and ethical. We don't have television platforms that reach a million people and that give our every silly word gravitas, even if it's completely unearned the way the Duggars' is. 

Derrick is exploiting this celebrity by marriage to attack a minor on the same network in the name of God. He is not just insulting her...he's not calling her ugly or fat or stupid...he's negating her very identity that she is struggling to come to terms with and by doing so, displaying total intolerance of all trans people. 

Is he allowed his opinion of intolerance? Certainly. But why attack an individual, let alone a minor? He could have made his ugly intolerant little point in generalities instead of singling her out. He chose to go after her and he's now dealing with the fallout. 

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, duggarfan said:

Every. Single. Bit. Of. This. 

Jazz wrote a best-selling book before TLC picked up the family for the show (also called I am Jazz). Jazz is doing this by choice to bring awareness to transgender kids/teens and their struggles for acceptance. The Duggars were just freaks noticed by TLC because they were super breeders. No kid had a platform, let alone written a book. They were merely...numbers as far as TLC was concerned when they were picked up for their first special. 

The situations are not comparable at all. 

[ariel]

11 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jazz wrote a best-selling book before TLC picked up the family for the show (also called I am Jazz). Jazz is doing this by choice to bring awareness to transgender kids/teens and their struggles for acceptance. The Duggars were just freaks noticed by TLC because they were super breeders.

I remember that freaky "children of the corn" picture with all the girls in horrible red dresses that caught someone at TLC's eye.

Edited August 6, 2017 by ariel

[Amers]

It didn't say he murdered them bare handed. He could have easily slipped information to the right people and just let it okay out. It is a dangerous country with a huge murder rate. He could have just told the right people he knows a guy with money, or something and orchestrated it second hand. I'd buy that easily. 

[Sew Sumi]

So, who would Derelict put out a contract on? An ebil Catholic who wouldn't convert? 

Not buying any of this for a second. Der is too focused on his bible and being Jesus-like to even contemplate murder or adultery. Hell, I doubt Jill gets it much; unlike the uber horny Duggars, Derelict doesn't seem to want to jump his wife every night like his FIL. I doubt they had much sex at all during their stints in Danger America. The threat of a Zika pregnancy was too real, even for these people who think God can cure everything, except for their bad life decisions. 

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Does anyone think they have "converted" even one Catholic?

Not any practicing one.  They seem to convert ones that are severely dissatisfied with the Church or are way lapsed. 

[Sew Sumi]

The people we seem them with are long-time converts. I really hate the missioncation pictures that people like Mechelle have taken with locals. Probably "unsaved" people who appreciate the fingernail polish and maybe a bag of rice to last a week. 

[ariel]

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They seem to convert ones that are severely dissatisfied with the Church or are way lapsed. 

Or ones that are hungry for a tiny slice of corn bread

[Sew Sumi]

(banana bread)  Jill doesn't have the Jiffy mix to make cornbread, and I don't see her working a mortar and pestle for corn. 

[ariel]

9 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

(banana bread)  Jill doesn't have the Jiffy mix to make cornbread, and I don't see her working a mortar and pestle for corn. 

Oops, you are correct.  Corn bread is a little too ambitious & chefy for our silly Jilly. If the falling shower curtain made her freak out, I think making corn bread from scratch would send her over the edge. ;)

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

The major difference is that the posters on this board aren't celebrities. We aren't being touted as authorities on anything, let alone all things familial, spiritual, and ethical. We don't have television platforms that reach a million people and that give our every silly word gravitas, even if it's completely unearned the way the Duggars' is. 

Derrick is exploiting this celebrity by marriage to attack a minor on the same network in the name of God. He is not just insulting her...he's not calling her ugly or fat or stupid...he's negating her very identity that she is struggling to come to terms with and by doing so, displaying total intolerance of all trans people. 

Is he allowed his opinion of intolerance? Certainly. But why attack an individual, let alone a minor? He could have made his ugly intolerant little point in generalities instead of singling her out. He chose to go after her and he's now dealing with the fallout. 

Even ignoring all the specifics, there is a major difference between people talking amongst themselves about celebrities--no matter how insulting they may be--and directly telling them, whether via tweet, FB comment, email, etc., something insulting. 

[Sew Sumi]

I forget the exact wording and am too lazy to look it up, but it basically says that everyone has the right to their opinion, but everyone has the right to rebuttal. This crosses a line since a minor is involved. I had NO problem smearing him on the TLC pages. Dish it, take it. The Duggars have proven that the latter is hard for them. 

[AUgirl]

Quote

But the people in his world aren't going to think Star Wars or Star Trek. As I keep harping on (and harping and harping), I've been talking to these folks. And they talk just like Derick in these tweets.

This world...I know someone who isn't even hard core fundy and believes that interracial dating is against God's will....

I'm in Alabama-these people's view are pretty par for course here. 

[magpye29]

I'll never forget going to a bar mitzvah for my friends' (a rabbi and his wife) son.  It was on a military base, and the other chaplains had been invited.  One of them (a Presbyterian) was talking to me, and we were saying what a nice party it was and how nice the rabbi and his wife were, and then the Presby chaplain shook his head pityingly and said, "Too bad they're all going to hell."  I was dumbfounded.  I never told my friends what this man had said, but I couldn't believe that he would accept their hospitality and then say such a thing, and I was insulted that he said it to me, as if I would subscribe to such a belief.  I did, however, take great pleasure in informing him that my husband was the Jewish lay leader on the base where I lived.  The look on his face was priceless.  

As a military spouse who was very active in the Catholic community but also supportive of the Jewish community, I saw a lot of unkindness and anti-Semitism.  The military has rules about chaplains having to be faith-neutral when serving at public functions, but on the base where I lived, all the Christian chaplains got around it by prefacing their prayers with, "And now I'd like to share a prayer in MY faith tradition" so they could end their prayer with, "In Jesus' name we pray, amen."  When I objected to this, people questioned my Christianity, which really pissed me off.  I would just reply, "Render unto Caesar" and point out that the chaplains were doing an end run around military regulations.

OTOH, when the rabbi had a complaint because he'd chided a Wiccan soldier for his beliefs, the installation chaplain required the rabbi to write a 10 page paper about Wicca.  I was happy to supply the rabbi with enough books about Wicca to get the job done.  (My husband almost had a heart attack because he thought I was going to tell the rabbi that the books were his from before he'd decided to become an observant Jew, but I just told the rabbi they were from my amazon bookstore.)

[TomServo]

7 hours ago, Temperance said:

There's a translation issue though. It doesn't make you biblically illiterate if the wording is not in your version of the bible. It's not King James Bible, and it's not NIV which is the standard go to version on the site Bible Gateway where I get my biblical information. I also don't remember the Catholic church using this text (YMMV). If you go to biblegateway, you can keep switching translations until you find. (It took me at least five.) As long as we aren't reading it in the original language, there will be different translations that take passages in very different directions. "Cosmic powers" is very sci-fi sounding to me, but seems to be a valid interpetation. From biblegateway here is the text from the King James, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." 

 

I guess that depends on what you mean by "biblically illiterate."  I'd consider someone who isn't familiar enough with the Bible that they can't recognize a reference to a well-known and oft-quoted Bible verse because of a single-word difference to be on the lower end of the biblical literacy scale.  You don't have to know exactly which translations include the word "cosmic" in order to understand the reference if you are generally familiar with the text and what someone is getting at when they talk about "fighting against spiritual powers rather than human ones [insert additional keywords like 'darkness' and 'heavenly places' here]."  So, yes, most non-ESV readers who are "literate" would probably read what he said and think, "Interesting; I didn't remember the word 'cosmic' being in that verse."  Then they either shrugged and went about their day as usual, or if they were curious enough, they looked it up and then went about their day.  It's unlikely that Star Trek, Carl Sagan, NASA, or a mental hospital came to mind first.

I don't know very many people (including evangelicals) who still use the NIV on a regular basis, and I have Bible Gateway set to default to a different translation.  Some of the Bible Bowl/Bible Quiz organizations are starting to switch to ESV, so it isn't as though it's some obscure text.

 

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

 Social media has almost made political correctness an unobtainable goal...Every show they've done has shown their backwards views of women, children, politics and the world at large...What did surprise me was his arrogant stupidity in calling his employer a hypocrite and naming a child in a hateful post.

 

Probably more than half the posts on this forum involve naming children (younger than 16, who didn't choose to chase fame on television) in what could be considered to be "hateful" posts.  Political correctness has never been a goal (attainable or otherwise) here, in this public forum, so I'm not particularly interested in using this forum to police whether people on other platforms are guilty of unpopular wrongthink.

Also, did Derick actually "name" the "child"?  The tweet I saw was just a link to TLC's promo (in which the child self-names in the hashtag).  Didn't come anywhere close to a direct attack as something like, I dunno, "Josie Duggar is feral!"

[Sew Sumi]

In later respondant tweets, Derick referred to Jazz as either he or him. I think it was "he." So yes, there was a direct reference.  

Edited August 6, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[TomServo]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jazz wrote a best-selling book before TLC picked up the family for the show (also called I am Jazz). Jazz is doing this by choice to bring awareness to transgender kids/teens and their struggles for acceptance.

Sure.  Just like the Duggars are doing it in order to minister to people and Kate Gosselin does it, "...to help others and...for women's empowerment.".  I'm sure the money and attention-seeking has NOTHING to do with it, and that's why Jazz chose a responsible, non-exploitative network like TLC. 

The Duggars had a platform pre-TLC, as well; it just wasn't as big as the one TLC brought them.  Their blog used to be shared around in (even non-fundie) homeschool circles as kind of a "Look!  This guy is a legislator and still has time to homeschool his bajillion kids; you can do it, too!"

 

Quote

Derick referred to Jazz as either he or him. I think it was "he." So yes, there was a direct reference.  

A "direct reference" isn't the same as "naming" as in doing something like doxxing a private person who is also a minor.  Jazz is not a private person.  Jazz is a person who has actively pursued a public platform in print and on television.  The only thing I saw on the feed (and admittedly I don't follow him on Twitter so I only looked at it briefly) was a reply to someone who accused him of "throwing shade at a teen" and Derick's reply was "I want to be clear. I have nothing against him. I only have issue with the words and definitions being propagated here" which is still topical rather than personal.

Edited August 6, 2017 by TomServo

[mynextmistake]

I don't know. I think Derrick might be crazy like a fox.

Let's face it. "Counting On" is boring. In fact, if you give me a choice between watching Jill hand out banana bread and watching paint dry, I'm going to take the paint. Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Joy are simply not interesting people. They are young and undereducated and programmed to want nothing more than husbands and babies. Nothing they do is engaging enough to sustain a tv show. People were willing to watch for couple of seasons to catch the end of the Josh drama and the novelty of the missionary stuff, but once that's over there's nothing left. Jill and Jessa are played out. Jeremy and Jinger have some spark but it's not enough to carry the show. Joy and Austin? Come on. If I wanted to watch a (undoubtedly soon-to-be) pregnant teenager stroll through Walmart looking at baby clothes, I'd just go to Walmart and do it in person. This show has a limited shelf life and it's getting stale. 

Enter Derrick and his controversy. People are talking about the show again. It's getting media attention. People who would otherwise have tuned out are going to be watching either because Derrick champions their beliefs or because they want to see if he's as big of an asshole on TV as he is on Twitter. There's no such thing as bad publicity, right? And frankly, in a country where Donald Trump is president, I have a hard time believing that people offended by Derrick's behavior are going to boycott TLC in such numbers as to require them to end the show or take Derrick off. I'm sure Derrick actually believes what he said about Jazz, but the timing of the comments makes me wonder if he isn't a bit smarter than we give him credit for being. 

Or maybe he's just a moronic dickhead. That could be true also. 

[TresGatos]

Quote

I guess that depends on what you mean by "biblically illiterate."  I'd consider someone who isn't familiar enough with the Bible that they can't recognize a reference to a well-known and oft-quoted Bible verse because of a single-word difference to be on the lower end of the biblical literacy scale. 

When I was growing up and attending Our Lady of Lourdes church and school, we were taught that Bible reading (and interpretation) should be left to rigorously trained professionals because you don't want just anyone willy-nilly reading the Bible and thinking they know best like Jim Jones or Warren Jeffs. I never would have recognized that "well known and oft-quoted Bible verse" as I have never heard it so I guess I'm on the lower end of the Biblical literacy scale but I think with the Bible the Spirit is more important than the Law and only the red parts really matter. I think Derick Dillard is a perfect example of why random people shouldn't be trusted to interpret the Bible and if Derick wants to get serious about reading the Bible and seriously pontificating about the purpose of Christianity and how to follow Christ then he should enroll in an accredited Seminary or else just stick to the Jefferson Bible, but that's just my Heathen stance.

[GeeGolly]

Am I'm naive in thinking this forum very different than Twitter? I see Twitter as a way to publicly send a message or share a thought to followers with the option to hashtag words so it'll be noticed by non-followers. I look at PTV much like @lascuba said; a discussion that isn't being sent out to the masses. 

[MamaMax]

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Am I'm naive in thinking this forum very different than Twitter? I see Twitter as a way to publicly send a message or share a thought to followers with the option to hashtag words so it'll be noticed by non-followers. I look at PTV much like @lascuba said; a discussion that isn't being sent out to the masses. 

My thoughts too.

If I mentioned someone here, they would need to seek it out to read it.  If I tweeted to them, that's direct dialog with them. I have communicated with them one-to-one, but with an audience of millions. I think that's very different.

38 minutes ago, TresGatos said:

When I was growing up and attending Our Lady of Lourdes church and school, we were taught that Bible reading (and interpretation) should be left to rigorously trained professionals because you don't want just anyone willy-nilly reading the Bible and thinking they know best like Jim Jones or Warren Jeffs. I never would have recognized that "well known and oft-quoted Bible verse" as I have never heard it so I guess I'm on the lower end of the Biblical literacy scale but I think with the Bible the Spirit is more important than the Law and only the red parts really matter. I think Derick Dillard is a perfect example of why random people shouldn't be trusted to interpret the Bible and if Derick wants to get serious about reading the Bible and seriously pontificating about the purpose of Christianity and how to follow Christ then he should enroll in an accredited Seminary or else just stick to the Jefferson Bible, but that's just my Heathen stance.

Well, this is a reason that the Fundamentalists think Catholics aren't Christians, because we "don't know our scripture." Also, a key point in the issues Martin Luther had with Rome. :)

[Chicklet]

Derrick as good as named Jazz. The network "his" show is on features a transgender teen so it was painfully obvious who he was slamming "in the name of the lord". So weasel-words, and he doesn't have the balls to out and out state his beliefs and type out Jazz's name. But he got his point across and TLC should find some balls and not just use their weasel-words.

 

ETA-oh my bad guess I spelled his name wrong.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Chicklet

[sigmaforce86]

14 hours ago, Lunera said:

Kendra's dad also preaches that gay people don't exist. 

"Does God love Homosexuals?"  "This is a flawed question ... There are no such things as Homosexuals." 

Ahhh - the "head in the sand" approach.  Very effective if you don't want to argue and debate because deep down you know you have no facts to back up your stance. 

 

9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

(banana bread)  Jill doesn't have the Jiffy mix to make cornbread, and I don't see her working a mortar and pestle for corn. 

And of course she can't buy the mix in DA because, as she's reminded us a thousand times "we have to stock up before we go; there aren't really places to shop down there" - all her fans must just pretend that the Wal-Mart we know is about five minutes from her house is imaginary and doesn't really exist in her world.  That or she can't shop at a Central American Wal-Mart because then she'd have to, you know, like, actually use that Spanish she "studies".

[floridamom]

My mother used to say, 'if 40 people read the same bible passage, you'd end up with 40 different interpretations, so who's right?"

Some years ago, my clergyman said that specific courses in the Seminary are taught for biblical interpretation and the language OF THE TIME the books of the bible were written in. Biblical text is not easy to understand because of a couple of thousand years ago, words could have meant something completely different than they do today. It was a long period of study for him. I believed him back then and I still do now. That doesn't prohibit someone from reading a bible OR referring to it when you have an issue about something, looking for direction, etc.

These people, like the Dillard/Duggars, have absolutely NO training in anything spiritual, scriptural or heavenly because those they "go to" for ANY loose instruction are not qualified themselves to be directing anyone else.......I refer you to Mr. Pastor Jeremy Vuolo.....who has NO training, other than his father's relief that his wayward son was looking for a better direction in his life after being cut from soccer.

Derick and Jill and complete novices, lay persons with no credentials at all to be 'preaching' to others. They need to be preached TO.

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Ahhh - the "head in the sand" approach.  Very effective if you don't want to argue and debate because deep down you know you have no facts to back up your stance. 

 

 

'"Does God love Homosexuals?"  "This is a flawed question ... There are no such things as Homosexuals."'

I don't think I'd call that "head in the sand." I'm sure that he'd be thrilled to debate someone if that person persisted. I think he lives to debate it and has certainly debated it many times.  And probably has every Bible verses that they think supports this fired up and at the ready for the debate, even if he were wakened up at 3 am to debate it. After all, he's the one who sent out young kids (among others) to pass out brochures about this at his NW Ark neighbors' homes.

He's making the exact same point Der is making except when people make the point "Pastor" Crawford's way -- and lots do --  they think they're being particularly bumper-sticker clever.

The idea he's pulling out is that "God did not make any homosexuals. (or people who feel they want to transit from one sex to the other). We know this, because in Genesis we read that 'male and female he created them' and they were created for a particular purpose, god's purpose -- to be  for each other, to be couples, and to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth with people so those people can have dominion over the earth, yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda

"Ergo ... Bible bottom line: God created male and female. Period. And he created them for a purpose -- to have teh babeez to fill and take dominion over the earth in god's name. Ergo, Bible bottom line, these people who'"think' that they 'are' something else -- something that doesn't pair with the 'opposite' sex to have teh babeez for god, such as homosexuals or transgenders etc.....These people are going against god's natural law since he did not create anything in the form they claim to be in. ........

"Instead, those who think that they are one of these literally 'ungodly' things are, in fact, just particularly egregious sinners who are flouting god's law in sodomy and so on."

... And of course he'll be able to hand you Bible chapter and verse here, too.

He'd love to debate all comers, I'm sure. If you offered him a TeeVee show to do it on, he'd be even happier. And I put "Pastor" in quotation marks because I wouldn't want a bigot like this leading any sheep, let alone any people. However, there are undoubtedly thousands of "pastors" out there saying this, some of them saying it right now, this moment. .... And if you debate them, they will always believe they won. Because they know what the Bible says, and it trumps everything.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Churchhoney

[louannems]

Well at least Derick's tweet got me to finally watch I Am Jazz.  I've watched The Family Tells All and season 1, episode 1.  I am learning so much.  Jazz is confident and articulate way beyond her years.

Derick should be required to actually watch the show before making tweet rants.

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Derick and Jill and complete novices, lay persons with no credentials at all to be 'preaching' to others.

Well, not really, though.  Their presumed ability to do exactly this is the whole point of evangelical, fundamentalist Protestantism. The entire point of it is that God calls out to every human heart in the full expectation that every human heart is completely capable of adequately responding and accepting Christ all on its own.  And then that same untutored but called-by-God-and-answered-to-same human heart is not only capable of going but commanded to go out into the world and preach to others, calling their attention to the fact that God is whispering to them and seeking their individual heart-led conversions, too.

That belief -- in its most radical form -- is what sets the Duggar-type belief --the conservative, fundamentalist evangelical Protestants -- apart from all other Christians, including from mainline Protestants and even some evangelicals who, in their view, have fallen away from this truth. 

Their belief -- and it's the ostensible reason why they've had "house churches" and such in the past -- is that by God's command, people don't need specially trained or appointed priests or other "experts" -- including "ministers" or "pastors" -- standing between us and God in any way. The idea is that we shouldn't have them there but should do as god wants -- rely for conversion talk on individual souls who've already seen the light and converted individually themselves. That placing those supposed spiritual "experts" in a "special" position is in itself a grave error and a sin.

Now, as always, there are a bunch of internal logical inconsistencies in this whole thing -- because they do line up to follow some spiritual "experts," such as Gothard, and so on. Nevertheless, it's fervently held to and at the root of a lot of what this crowd does (and it's not just the Dugg and the Dills and their extended family, of course).

The fact that this belief has been more widespread in the United States than in many other nations, especially in the 20th century, is part of the reason for America's quite strident and marked anti-intellectualism as well, I think. -- another thing we see played out in Duggardom.

[DangerousMinds]

Does god love homosexuals? Flawed question, because there is no such thing as God. Or rather, there are many gods.

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, not really, though.  Their presumed ability to do exactly this is the whole point of evangelical, fundamentalist Protestantism. The entire point of it is that God calls out to every human heart in the full expectation that every human heart is completely capable of adequately responding and accepting Christ all on its own.  And then that same untutored but called-by-God-and-answered-to-same human heart is not only capable of going but commanded to go out into the world and preach to others, calling their attention to the fact that God is whispering to them and seeking their individual heart-led conversions, too.

That belief -- in its most radical form -- is what sets the Duggar-type belief --the conservative, fundamentalist evangelical Protestants -- apart from all other Christians, including from mainline Protestants and even some evangelicals who, in their view, have fallen away from this truth. 

Their belief -- and it's the ostensible reason why they've had "house churches" and such in the past -- is that by God's command, people don't need specially trained or appointed priests or other "experts" -- including "ministers" or "pastors" -- standing between us and God in any way. The idea is that we shouldn't have them there but should do as god wants -- rely for conversion talk on individual souls who've already seen the light and converted individually themselves. That placing those supposed spiritual "experts" in a "special" position is in itself a grave error and a sin.

Now, as always, there are a bunch of internal logical inconsistencies in this whole thing -- because they do line up to follow some spiritual "experts," such as Gothard, and so on. Nevertheless, it's fervently held to and at the root of a lot of what this crowd does (and it's not just the Dugg and the Dills and their extended family, of course).

The fact that this belief has been more widespread in the United States than in many other nations, especially in the 20th century, is part of the reason for America's quite strident and marked anti-intellectualism as well, I think. -- another thing we see played out in Duggardom.

But hasn't God put kindness in their evangelical hearts? If they're whispering to, or pulling and pushing folks toward conversion to save their souls shouldn't they be kind? Derick's rant didn't feel like soul saving to me. It felt like a mean spirited attack at something he feels to be wrong. If they don't need a theological education shouldn't they at least need knowledge of basic manners?

[DangerousMinds]

If they don't need an education, why are they all (Bin, Jeremy, Derick) still studying and pursuing it?

[Nysha]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

But hasn't God put kindness in their evangelical hearts?

No, kindness requires empathy and to them, empathy equates acceptance, acceptance equates tolerance and it's a sin for them to tolerate anything sinful. They believe they have a God-given responsibility to shine a light on the sin of the world, so the unwashed masses cannot claim they didn't know what they were doing was wrong when they stand before the Lord on Judgement Day. 

Derick doesn't think he's bullying a child, he believes he is saving her from hell...or if not Jazz, then any Christian who may be watching her show and sliding into confusion and sin.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Nysha said:

No, kindness requires empathy and to them, empathy equates acceptance, acceptance equates tolerance and it's a sin for them to tolerate anything sinful. They believe they have a God-given responsibility to shine a light on the sin of the world, so the unwashed masses cannot claim they didn't know what they were doing was wrong when they stand before the Lord on Judgement Day. 

Derick doesn't think he's bullying a child, he believes he is saving her from hell...or if not Jazz, then any Christian who may be watching her show and sliding into confusion and sin.

Well its no wonder then, why so few are converted by evangelism. 

[BitterApple]

I agree with the comment up thread that anyone who chooses to do a reality show has a touch of famewhore in them, and Jazz and her family are no different. However what gets me about Derick is the utter hypocrisy. He's so against the way Jazz lives her life yet has no issue sharing a network with her and collecting a paycheck from that same network. He can't play both sides of the fence. Ball's in your court, Derelict. Stand up for your beliefs by quitting the show. Good luck raising missioncation donations without the benefit of national television to boost your profile.

Edited August 6, 2017 by BitterApple

[Churchhoney]

49 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

But hasn't God put kindness in their evangelical hearts? If they're whispering to, or pulling and pushing folks toward conversion to save their souls shouldn't they be kind? Derick's rant didn't feel like soul saving to me. It felt like a mean spirited attack at something he feels to be wrong. If they don't need a theological education shouldn't they at least need knowledge of basic manners?

Short answer: no.

Longwinded answer: This kind of conversion is about "sinners in the hands of an angry god." (which is not just something they make you read in high school!) ....  

As I understand it, the thinking goes like this: Manners and kindness would, in fact, be the ultimately cruelty to Jazz. Because it would conceal from her the ultimate and imminent danger she's in. What she's doing and saying, what she thinks about her life flies in the face of god's eternal plan. It's against the natural law that god set up. That's the ultimate sin. And the only possible route through which she can be saved from eternal burning in a lake of fire is to realize she's deep deep deep in sin, the ultimate sin of flying in the face of the very natural laws god set up, and to have her turn aside from everything she "thinks" and flee to faith in that natural law and its god. ...........    

Not to warn her starkly about the fact that she's dangling by a thread over an eternal lake of fire (literally) is to participate in throwing her into it. And if you refer to Jazz as "she" and "her," then you're giving ground to the great sinfulness that's turned her against god's law and you yourself are sinfully insinuating that she and those who support her may be right. But your faith -- and that's the ultimate arbiter of truth here -- tells you that they are not. That they're in peril of their souls every moment they don't listen to you. 

Seriously. That sounds overdramatic but that's the kind of "war" they see themselves in. And that's why it trumps manners and kindness, which are temporary softnesses. Hell is eternal agony. 

And, yeah, this makes no sense to you and me. But that's because we're operating within a whole different set of premises that are pretty much diametrically opposed to theirs. We have a naturalistic view, and we take Jazz's word for it that she feels like a female who was trapped in a male body. Just as we take the word of our homosexual and bisexual and asexual and whatever-sexual friends about who they do or don't want to be with. ..... But we're taking a naturalistic view, looking at humans as actual worthy judges of their condition, believing in the science that says human (and animal) bodies and hormonal configurations come in a wide range of forms, brains are complex,...and so on and so on. 

Whereas Der and his ilk are going by one thing: faith in certain words in the Bible. 

And, yeah, you and I (well, I know I do ...) quite likely think that what's really behind their talk is insecurity, ignorance, fear of the unfamiliar, the all-too-familiar human urge to have someone to lord it over and look down on, etc. etc. But in their minds, it's faith. .... And that's a very very hard conviction to shake people out of, I think.. .......

It's sort of like addiction in that way, maybe. You'll never get out of it until for some reason you realize that you need and want to get out of it. .............And they're like addicts living in a commune of people who all shoot up. Only their commune numbers in the millions; the members of their commune are enjoying the rush rather than feeling acute misery, because faith doesn't hit you with withdrawal symptoms if you don't convert somebody every few hours; and their commune is headed by people who make many somewhat legitimate claims to not just respect but to being the most virtuous people on earth and destined for heavenly thrones..... So heroin addicts are probably more likely to give up the needle than they are to give up their faith rush. 

...

Edited August 6, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

26 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Well its no wonder then, why so few are converted by evangelism. 

Well, actually, though, out of all the religions and denominations in America, it's only these religions that have grown over the past 60 years or so-- and grown like gangbusters (and not only because some of them have a lot of kids, but through conversions).

Every other religion has lost members like mad over the exact same interval. 

Religion in general has become a lot less popular in our lifetimes. But this religion has become much more popular than it ever was. 

The only reason I can imagine for that is that the world has changed very very fast over the past 100 years (which is when this religion actually took off in America -- there was less of it in earlier centuries) and this is a religion that promises some simple bedrock that may feel to some people as if it anchors them against that change. Gives them armor against that change, because they're naturally timid, insecure and fearful of losing what they've got.... But who knows? 

Go figure

[duggarshow]

17 hours ago, magpye29 said:

I'll never forget going to a bar mitzvah for my friends' (a rabbi and his wife) son.  It was on a military base, and the other chaplains had been invited.  One of them (a Presbyterian) was talking to me, and we were saying what a nice party it was and how nice the rabbi and his wife were, and then the Presby chaplain shook his head pityingly and said, "Too bad they're all going to hell."  I was dumbfounded.  I never told my friends what this man had said, but I couldn't believe that he would accept their hospitality and then say such a thing, and I was insulted that he said it to me, as if I would subscribe to such a belief.  I did, however, take great pleasure in informing him that my husband was the Jewish lay leader on the base where I lived.  The look on his face was priceless.  

 

1

That is absolutely awful and that Presbyterian Chaplain should be ashamed of himself. Ugh.

Edited August 6, 2017 by duggarfan
Yikes! Edited because I wasn't paying enough attention the first time I replied!

[Churchhoney]

59 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

If they don't need an education, why are they all (Bin, Jeremy, Derick) still studying and pursuing it?

Well, note that Jer got 'ordained" -- and handed his own church to plant, as if he were St. Paul or something -- without any such training, education or experience. And that, even now, he's self-taught.  

And Bin appears to be taking a course in "church management" -- not so much in theology or biblical studies -- so he may figure that that's the path to jobs in the independent-church world. And I'd bet that he's right about that -- somebody does have to manage the institution, and that takes some business skills and people skills and so on, and those aren't about biblical learning. Plus, Bin certainly has considered himself perfectly capable of preaching at people with gusto since he was a teenager and had zero education in any of this.

And Der has stopped his studies -- quite a while ago, as I understand it. He's also "self-taught." 

As always, there are massive internal contradictions in what they say and do. .....But I think in this case it might be explained because a) they have a feeling that the preached-to may want to see some credentials; b) they all want to be big shots, and while they do espouse this kind of Christianity they also know that education seems to convey big-shot-ness to many people in this world and c) they probably run out of stuff to say in sermons, so they're reading books to find some more lines. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by Churchhoney

[AUgirl]

Quote

Also, did Derick actually "name" the "child"?  The tweet I saw was just a link to TLC's promo (in which the child self-names in the hashtag).  Didn't come anywhere close to a direct attack as something like, I dunno, "Josie Duggar is feral!"

I think of it like this: What if Jazz had tweeted the promo from Counting On with the caption "Josie Duggar is feral" and went on a rant about how preemies are mentally deficient. To me that's the same as what Derrick Dumbass did.