Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

One can have respect for other religions or groups but still have feelings of curiosity and concern about its message and its members. And members of religions or groups shouldn't feel surprised that others wonder about them individually. Its nobody's business what churches or groups folks belong to, or what others believe, until they make others' business. But when and if they do, they need to be okay with folks having assumptions.

If someone discloses they're (insert religion here), they need to be okay with others assuming they're all in, with all it teaches. If someone discloses they're part of the (insert group here), they too, need to be okay with others assuming they're all in. I'm not saying everyone will share the same assumptions or even give it much thought, but they might.

Its okay to assume Jill is all in, the same way its okay to assume Jeremy is all in. Its also okay to give them the benefit of the doubt and think they're more liberal than their churches are. But there is a risk with attaching your name to faiths and groups. And even more so when you share your beliefs on TV and SM.

And this is why I’m an atheist and rarely join groups. 

[Spazamanaz]

18 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Whether or not Jill is an informed voter is unknown, but she makes it a point to vote and post it on SM.

RFP is Reverend Fancy Pants.

 Very fitting! That's who I thought it might be. Wasn't 100% sure though. Thanks!

[sATL]

20 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

RFP = Reverend Fancy Pants AKA Jeremy Vuolo:

 

Nice picture..

Has the RBF actually opened a book? gave a sermon? Counseled ? Taught a class ? He seems like he's into the "fun" side of life (ie ministry isn't his day job). I mean to earn a Masters in Divinity Degree does require some work - as  a school in my town that I happen to glance at requires many hours of classes, thesis ,pastoral-train ( link )  . I forgot the name of the school in CA he is going to .

And since the show is behind real life - this is his second year right?  If so that means 2 of the duggar husbands will graduate in 2021 with graduate/advanced degrees... not bad...Hurry and catch up Ben...

Edited September 26, 2020 by sATL

[leighdear]

I think Jill is just barely bright enough, and definitely desperate enough for positive social media strokes, that she's attempting to tap into the current zeitgeist. Throwing out random and baseless "BLM" and "RBG" themed posts as an example.  She has no clue what most of it means.

I think almost nothing RBG stood for or accomplished has anything to do with Jill's life or beliefs, past or present.  RBG graduated college & law school, was a professor, she fought sex-discrimination, and as a SC Justice fought for pay equality, LGBTQ rights, the disabled, the undocumented, etc.  The sole thing Jill had in common was she was married and a mother.  Jill fights for nothing but "likes" and followers. 

I don't see the superficial things like a nose piercing, wearing jeans and talking about sex on social media as growth.  It's just expanding the number of things she's frantically throwing out to the public to feel loved by the masses.  She's not getting it from much of her family, so from strangers is good enough.  

Edited September 26, 2020 by leighdear

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, leighdear said:

I think Jill is just barely bright enough, and definitely desperate enough for positive social media strokes, that she's attempting to tap into the current zeitgeist. Throwing out random and baseless "BLM" and "RBG" themed posts as an example.  She has no clue what most of it means.

Yep. Look at how much more polished her pictures are now. That's not a coincidence. I expect her to attempt to get some sponsorships now, in the hopes that so many people believe she's changed that she'll avoid getting those sponsorships pulled when people contact the companies.

[satrunrose]

I think there are a couple of factors that make it really hard to judge where newJill might be or go in terms of dropping her beliefs that are actively harmful. 

The Positive

Jill was raised in a culture that seems to believe that all sins, from the non-sins like blue hair, to sex before marriage, to sexual assault, are roughly equal and equally likely to damn you forever unless you repent. In that sort of a framework, drinking and pants wearing are probably bigger deals to her than they seem to us. Maybe if she finds that drinking is okay, she might be willing to rethink some of the homophobia, and transphobia.

The negative:

I've noticed that with the exceptions of Jill R and Michelle, most of the fundy women we follow stay far, far away from politics. I don't know how much of that is sanitizing their beliefs for the wider public and how much of that is the beliefs that women should stay well away from social and political issues and only thank the Lord for their babies and wonderful husbands. I expect Jinger in particular is leaving those pesky politics to her headship, so who knows what they actually  think. 

[emmawoodhouse]

4 hours ago, sATL said:

Nice picture..

Has the RBF actually opened a book? gave a sermon? Counseled ? Taught a class ? He seems like he's into the "fun" side of life (ie ministry isn't his day job). I mean to earn a Masters in Divinity Degree does require some work - as  a school in my town that I happen to glance at requires many hours of classes, thesis ,pastoral-train ( link )  . I forgot the name of the school in CA he is going to .

And since the show is behind real life - this is his second year right?  If so that means 2 of the duggar husbands will graduate in 2021 with graduate/advanced degrees... not bad...Hurry and catch up Ben...

Jeremy's program is three years, maybe now four. They made some changes at The Master's Seminary, but I don't know if they affect Jeremy's matriculation.

Edited September 26, 2020 by emmawoodhouse

[doodlebug]

17 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I think there are a couple of factors that make it really hard to judge where newJill might be or go in terms of dropping her beliefs that are actively harmful. 

I've noticed that with the exceptions of Jill R and Michelle, most of the fundy women we follow stay far, far away from politics. I don't know how much of that is sanitizing their beliefs for the wider public and how much of that is the beliefs that women should stay well away from social and political issues and only thank the Lord for their babies and wonderful husbands. I expect Jinger in particular is leaving those pesky politics to her headship, so who knows what they actually  think. 

Gothard taught that it was up to the headship to determine which candidates and issues the family would support and the wives and kids old enough to vote who were still at home were expected to follow instructions and vote as their headship instructed.  I don't think he was the only fundy leader to preach that.  There are still quite a few who feel that women should not be able to vote, that the husband's vote represents the entire family, so it is only right that everyone vote the same way, according to the husband's will. It is also part of quiverful philosophy in many cases; the more kids, the bigger the voting block.

Jinger and Jill were both raised in this system of belief; I think it would be pretty tough for them to go against it at this point.  Of course, ballots are private, but, if you've been taught to believe that God expects this, I don't think they'd be very likely to question it.

Maybe Jill is ok with praising Ruth Bader Ginsberg because she is no longer a factor in American politics.  I'd like to know what she thought about her voting record on the Supreme Court.

Edited September 27, 2020 by doodlebug

[emmawoodhouse]

Still pretty fundie. 

 

[JAYJAY1979]

18 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Still pretty fundie. 

 

My dad grew up in fundie land...and these thoughts are actually to the left of fundie.

One thing I've noticed since Israel started school last month is that she has a lot of one on one time with Sam.  And she seems less overwhelmed.

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

My dad grew up in fundie land...and these thoughts are actually to the left of fundie.

One thing I've noticed since Israel started school last month is that she has a lot of one on one time with Sam.  And she seems less overwhelmed.

It definitely reads as way more feminist than what I would consider fundie. Still certainly Christian. I found her first line the most interesting. I'm thinking Jill has not found a lot of empathy or care from her parents. (And to be fair, I don't think Derick has always demonstrated those traits to her either.)

[emmawoodhouse]

11 minutes ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

My dad grew up in fundie land...and these thoughts are actually to the left of fundie.

One thing I've noticed since Israel started school last month is that she has a lot of one on one time with Sam.  And she seems less overwhelmed.

LOL, as an agnostic leaning atheist, it all sounds "fundie" to me. I don't know where to draw the line in doctrine like this. Just the major issues that we talk about in here as nauseum. 😁

[GeeGolly]

Is Jill becoming a feminist through Jesus?

[Churchhoney]

On 9/26/2020 at 2:31 PM, sATL said:

And since the show is behind real life - this is his second year right?  If so that means 2 of the duggar husbands will graduate in 2021 with graduate/advanced degrees... not bad...Hurry and catch up Ben...

 

Jer's status as to graduation year is a little more complicated and unknown than that, actually.

As of this year, the master's program he's in is listed as a full four-year, all-required curriculum. It previously was listed as a program designed for completion in three years, with students having the option to spread out their classes a bit and stay for four years or even more if that worked better for them. It seems they likely lengthened the program because guys were having a lot of trouble finishing it in three years. We don't know whether Jer had initially expected to finish it in three years or four, or what his expectations are now.

Further complicating things, Jer actually did begin the degree on a part-time online basis during the last year they were in Texas. But we don't know how many classes he finished there, nor whether he even finished any, n fact.

In addition, hi seminary (The Master's Seminary) doesn't offer most of its courses in summer programs, so he can't be going full-time or close to it year round. They do offer at least some of their Greek and Hebrew courses in summer, however. And this past summer Jer said that he was taking Greek. From the textbook we saw it appeared to be the beginning Greek course, which he had earlier said he was taking starting in the fall semester of 2019....So whether he dropped that course or the Greek homework we saw in the summer was just review of the earliest course or what -- also impossible to say.

Long story short, there seems to be no way to tell exactly when he'll graduate but it does seem impossible that it'll be any time in '21, even in December, mainly because of that beginning Greek that he appeared to be doing this summer. To graduate, he needs two full years of Greek and two full years of Hebrew.

So it seems he's on track to graduate sometime in '22 or '23.

So....At least by sometime in '23 there'll be two Duggar sons-in-law with advanced degrees. (which puts them not only ahead of Ben, but about 100 years beyond any actual Duggar, male or female). It is definitely a good thing for them, their wives and their kids.....But I really wonder what Der and Jer actually think about the Duggar approach to education. I'd have trouble maintaining a good relationship with an in-law clan that went out of their way to denigrate and despise something that means as much to me as education. And it certainly does seem that they both have some respect for education, too.

[sATL]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

Jer's status as to graduation year is a little more complicated and unknown than that, actually.

As of this year, the master's program he's in is listed as a full four-year, all-required curriculum. It previously was listed as a program designed for completion in three years, with students having the option to spread out their classes a bit and stay for four years or even more if that worked better for them. It seems they likely lengthened the program because guys were having a lot of trouble finishing it in three years. We don't know whether Jer had initially expected to finish it in three years or four, or what his expectations are now.

Further complicating things, Jer actually did begin the degree on a part-time online basis during the last year they were in Texas. But we don't know how many classes he finished there, nor whether he even finished any, n fact.

In addition, hi seminary (The Master's Seminary) doesn't offer most of its courses in summer programs, so he can't be going full-time or close to it year round. They do offer at least some of their Greek and Hebrew courses in summer, however. And this past summer Jer said that he was taking Greek. From the textbook we saw it appeared to be the beginning Greek course, which he had earlier said he was taking starting in the fall semester of 2019....So whether he dropped that course or the Greek homework we saw in the summer was just review of the earliest course or what -- also impossible to say.

Long story short, there seems to be no way to tell exactly when he'll graduate but it does seem impossible that it'll be any time in '21, even in December, mainly because of that beginning Greek that he appeared to be doing this summer. To graduate, he needs two full years of Greek and two full years of Hebrew.

So it seems he's on track to graduate sometime in '22 or '23.

So....At least by sometime in '23 there'll be two Duggar sons-in-law with advanced degrees. (which puts them not only ahead of Ben, but about 100 years beyond any actual Duggar, male or female). It is definitely a good thing for them, their wives and their kids.....But I really wonder what Der and Jer actually think about the Duggar approach to education. I'd have trouble maintaining a good relationship with an in-law clan that went out of their way to denigrate and despise something that means as much to me as education. And it certainly does seem that they both have some respect for education, too.

4 year full time masters? How long is the universities PhD pgm - full time ?

[Churchhoney]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Is Jill becoming a feminist through Jesus?

Well, she wouldn't be the first.

[Churchhoney]

16 minutes ago, sATL said:

4 year full time masters? How long is the universities PhD pgm - full time ?

The doctoral programs are much more flexible in what they list as time to completion, presumably because some people come in with a master's in the subject already, many come in with significant undergrad coursework in the field and so on.

My guess as to what happened is that this Masters of Divinity program is crammed with very very ambitious stuff that MacArthur really doesn't want to drop --- but that over the years it's become less and less feasible for American students right  off a bachelor's degree to finish that in the three years it was originally supposed to take. 

For one thing, some of the students, like Jer, have absolutely no academic background in the disciplines that the program teaches. Since he got a business degree as an undergrad, it wouldn't surprise me if he never took a single course in his life that was relevant to it.

But maybe the biggest -- and likely almost universal -- problem is the language requirement, I expect. Ostensibly, at least, the degree requires students to learn both Hebrew and ancient Greek to the point of being able to read both languages in order to interpret the Old and New Testaments! To decide based on their own translation whether somebody else's interpretation is accurate or not! .....

Now, that's literally an insane standard for somebody with the amount of coursework they get in this program....But.....I have a feeling that MacArthur is deeply wedded to that idea.

And...high school and undergraduate education has change over the past few decades in ways that make it even more difficult than ever for those guys to learn those languages well at all. Undergrad education for many people people today doesn't have any foreign language requirements. And to learn ancient Greek easily you really need to have a strong grasp of grammar and of the way a highly inflected language operates. And fewer people have that today -- for one thing, a lot of kids used to take at least some Latin in high school, and that gives you a familiarity with something quite similar to ancient Greek. And that's disappeared at an even faster clip than college language requirements, I think.

Most other U.S. seminaries have dropped or at least greatly cut back their foreign-language requirements for this degree. But MacArthur really really really prides himself on having that requirement. It's his claim to being above the other schools. So until he finally shuffles off, they're likely to keep going with it.....If he lives long enough it could end up being a six-year degree. 😈

Edited September 28, 2020 by Churchhoney

[Kiss my mutt]

But if Jer graduates he might actually have to get a job and pay rent. 

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

But if Jer graduates he might actually have to get a job and pay rent. 

Good one! 😂

[iwantcookies]

Pay rent in Bible tracts ?

[awaken]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

But if Jer graduates he might actually have to get a job and pay rent. 

Which tells me he plans to be in school hobnobbing with the higher-ups, and trying to get influencer gigs as long as possible. No way he plans to work for a living anytime soon. 

[auntieminem]

Good for Jill in recognizing women's role in spreading the teachings of Jesus. The church I went to and went to their liberal arts college (Church of the Nazarene) emphasizes the role of women being church leaders using that scripture.  Now through the years some churches became more conservative but there are movements to promote women's roles in leadership. There is even a group of leaders who are promoting peace and justice and are anti-nationalism.  Maybe I should send her the link to their page.  Baby steps. I know she (and Derick) have a very long way to go but I am hopeful they can change their thinking.  

[sATL]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

The doctoral programs are much more flexible in what they list as time to completion, presumably because some people come in with a master's in the subject already, many come in with significant undergrad coursework in the field and so on.

My guess as to what happened is that this Masters of Divinity program is crammed with very very ambitious stuff that MacArthur really doesn't want to drop --- but that over the years it's become less and less feasible for American students right  off a bachelor's degree to finish that in the three years it was originally supposed to take. 

For one thing, some of the students, like Jer, have absolutely no academic background in the disciplines that the program teaches. Since he got a business degree as an undergrad, it wouldn't surprise me if he never took a single course in his life that was relevant to it.

But maybe the biggest -- and likely almost universal -- problem is the language requirement, I expect. Ostensibly, at least, the degree requires students to learn both Hebrew and ancient Greek to the point of being able to read both languages in order to interpret the Old and New Testaments! To decide based on their own translation whether somebody else's interpretation is accurate or not! .....

Now, that's literally an insane standard for somebody with the amount of coursework they get in this program....But.....I have a feeling that MacArthur is deeply wedded to that idea.

And...high school and undergraduate education has change over the past few decades in ways that make it even more difficult than ever for those guys to learn those languages well at all. Undergrad education for many people people today doesn't have any foreign language requirements. And to learn ancient Greek easily you really need to have a strong grasp of grammar and of the way a highly inflected language operates. And fewer people have that today -- for one thing, a lot of kids used to take at least some Latin in high school, and that gives you a familiarity with something quite similar to ancient Greek. And that's disappeared at an even faster clip than college language requirements, I think.

Most other U.S. seminaries have dropped or at least greatly cut back their foreign-language requirements for this degree. But MacArthur really really really prides himself on having that requirement. It's his claim to being above the other schools. So until he finally shuffles off, they're likely to keep going with it.....If he lives long enough it could end up being a six-year degree. 😈

Ok.. maybe his "new" career path is what I didn't factor into why the schooling is taking twice as long as I originally thought.

In my small little world - I am used to those getting masters : (1) an advanced study of what their undergrad was/is in - MS in Ed for teachers/ MSN in nursing, etc , (2) the next logical step in the career path - which yes might require some core classes, usually at the undergrad level, that was not taken before - MBA for someone whose undergrad was in Engineering (they never took accounting 101), or (3) it has been a substantial time since undergrad was earned, so a masters pgm might require a more more up to date grades  - MS in biology, when the undergrad was earned 20 years ago.

Usually in the case of #2  & #3 - those MIA classes are usually required before full admission. But sounds like in Jer's case, they let him the masters pgm already.  He should have taken a round of classes in Greek/Hebrew/Latin/ undergrad ministry-core classes  before getting into the masters pgm. Which he could have taken anywhere creditable, probably cheaper and not necessarily in LA.

Edited September 29, 2020 by sATL

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, sATL said:

Ok.. maybe his "new" career path is what I didn't factor into why the schooling is taking twice as long as I originally thought.

In my small little world - I am used to those getting masters : (1) an advanced study of what their undergrad was/is in - MS in Ed for teachers/ MSN in nursing, etc , (2) the next logical step in the career path - which yes might require some core classes, usually at the undergrad level, that was not taken before - MBA for someone whose undergrad was in Engineering (they never took accounting 101), or (3) it has been a substantial time since undergrad was earned, so a masters pgm might require a more more up to date grades  - MS in biology, when the undergrad was earned 20 years ago.

Usually in the case of #2  & #3 - those MIA classes are usually required before full admission. But sounds like in Jer's case, they let him the masters pgm already.  He should have taken a round of classes in Greek/Hebrew/Latin/ undergrad ministry-core classes  before getting into the masters pgm. Which he could have taken anywhere creditable, probably cheaper and not necessarily in LA.

 

I'm moving my response to this over to Jer and Jingle's area. ...

Edited September 29, 2020 by Churchhoney

[BigBingerBro]

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

Do I want to know what Jill and Derick would do with coconut lube or massage candles?  

[Chicklet]

6 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Do I want to know what Jill and Derick would do with coconut lube or massage candles?  

Well of course you massage the candle and use the lube on said coconut. Right?

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Well of course you massage the candle and use the lube on said coconut. Right?

I should clarify that I am Pro-Lube because no one likes to go down a dry waterslide.  I also believe all of the Duggarlings and other young fundie couples should receive a tube of lube on their wedding day, but they are in the minor league and a simple water-based lube like KY should be enough.  I didn't know any Duggarling was ready for flavored lube.

[Chicklet]

Does that book they liked to promote when Josh got married recommend lube? I'm kind of shocked Jill even knows what it's all about.

[GeeGolly]

Jill is promoting lubricant. 

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I should clarify that I am Pro-Lube because no one likes to go down a dry waterslide.  I also believe all of the Duggarlings and other young fundie couples should receive a tube of lube on their wedding day, but they are in the minor league and a simple water-based lube like KY should be enough.  I didn't know any Duggarling was ready for flavored lube.

I support it too but don’t want to think of Jill and Derrick (or any Duggar) using it!

[anna0852]

Go Jill!

[ginger90]

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill is promoting lubricant. 

Coconut lube is a polite way of saying Pina Colada.

[Kiss my mutt]

I don’t know about you guys but I’ve never needed an app for this. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I don’t know about you guys but I’ve never needed an app for this. 

I agree,  but I do like how open Jill is about working on her marriage.   Versus her siblings who all act like their Boob-arranged marriages are perfect.  If she says she's happy, I will believe her because I see the work.  Anna, not so much.

[Westiepeach]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill is promoting lubricant. 

Things I do not need to ever know about for $600 Alex.

[Gweilo]

Although I'm personally pretty private about sex and intimacy, I support Jill 1000% if she wants to promote resources for sexual health and autonomy - especially amongst young Christian women. I'm convinced that many fundie marriages basically involve marital rape on a regular basis.

Isn't there a Christian leader guy who wrote about how on his wedding night he basically kept banging his wife to see how many times he could do it to her? If I'm remembering that right, that HORRIFIES me. So if any young woman sees Jill's post and is more informed about sex, pleasure and consent, then I'm genuinely thrilled.

 

[emmawoodhouse]

12 minutes ago, Gweilo said:

Although I'm personally pretty private about sex and intimacy, I support Jill 1000% if she wants to promote resources for sexual health and autonomy - especially amongst young Christian women. I'm convinced that many fundie marriages basically involve marital rape on a regular basis.

Isn't there a Christian leader guy who wrote about how on his wedding night he basically kept banging his wife to see how many times he could do it to her? If I'm remembering that right, that HORRIFIES me. So if any young woman sees Jill's post and is more informed about sex, pleasure and consent, then I'm genuinely thrilled.

 

That was Michael Pearl. Disgusting.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Gweilo said:

Although I'm personally pretty private about sex and intimacy, I support Jill 1000% if she wants to promote resources for sexual health and autonomy - especially amongst young Christian women. I'm convinced that many fundie marriages basically involve marital rape on a regular basis.

Isn't there a Christian leader guy who wrote about how on his wedding night he basically kept banging his wife to see how many times he could do it to her? If I'm remembering that right, that HORRIFIES me. So if any young woman sees Jill's post and is more informed about sex, pleasure and consent, then I'm genuinely thrilled.

 

I agree with you. Jill is an adult and I don’t see anything wrong with her targeting young married Christian women with products like these. 

KY lubricant is a piece of shit- it was designed for medical instruments NOT sex, I hate to think of young women thinking that’s the only option for them. 

While I don’t think JD, Joe or Josiah would do anything like that awful guy, I wouldn’t give an opinion on the rest of them. Let’s include Ben because if he tried Jessa would bite him. 

[ginger90]

The latest Q&A:

 

Video:

 

 

[sATL]

32 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

The latest Q&A:

 

Video:

 

 

Just saw the article.... Can't help but be nosy as I am a little out of touch on the subject to find out what is  non-hormonal birth control .  I googled - the list is long - wondered if there were any new "inventions" - as scientists are always working on something..

And was a licensed OB-GYN involved in the decision ?  I guess JB was not.

Edited September 30, 2020 by sATL

[doodlebug]

14 minutes ago, sATL said:

Just saw the article.... Can't help but be nosy as I am a little out of touch on the subject to find out what is  non-hormonal birth control .  I googled - the list is long - wondered if there were any new "inventions" - as scientists are always working on something..

And was a licensed OB-GYN involved in the decision ?  I guess JB was not.

This gives Jill a whole lot of decent options for contraception and is a huge step forward for her.

[sATL]

12 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

This gives Jill a whole lot of decent options for contraception and is a huge step forward for her.

True. I wonder if she is keeping her new found knowledge to herself, or is sharing it with her married sisters...Or the Bates married sisters..

Edited September 30, 2020 by sATL

[iwantcookies]

https://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-reveals-she-uses-birth-control/

[Scarlett45]

I doubt Jill is using an IUD since her value system indicates a fertilized egg is a human being and making the uterus inhospitable to implantation is morally repugnant. ***
 

Likely they are using condoms/spermicide and/or a diaphragm. 
 

Plenty of women can’t use hormonal contraceptives for a variety of reasons, and no I’m not surprise they use contraceptives- they only have two kids!
 

***I know IUD’s don’t work that way, I’m saying I believe Jill believes that.

 

[LoquaciousAudacity]

Longtime lurker.

I watched the YouTube video and I am honestly stunned. I realize that I don't agree with Derrick and Jill on many things, but we do share a viewpoint in that you can disagree with people and still be friends or at least not enemies. And Jill admitting to using birth control is also huge. I would've never pegged her as becoming the most progressive Duggar, but wow, has she shocked me. I would LOVE to see Jill Rodrigues reaction to this video. 

I only hope that she can influence some of her siblings to view life more progressively. Obviously, it's a lot of small baby steps, but she is and has made progress and so far, is at least shown she is open minded. Considering how she was raised, this is pretty much rebelling against her family.

[doodlebug]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I doubt Jill is using an IUD since her value system indicates a fertilized egg is a human being and making the uterus inhospitable to implantation is morally repugnant. 
 

Likely they are using condoms/spermicide and/or a diaphragm. 
 

Plenty of women can’t use hormonal contraceptives for a variety of reasons, and no I’m not surprise they use contraceptives- they only have two kids!

 

Just a point of information: IUD's do NOT seem to prevent implantation of fertilized eggs.  Instead, the presence of the IUD in the uterus sets up an immune response which decapacitates sperm, so they cannot fertilize an egg.  So, women using IUD's are not conceiving and there is no 'abortion' happening.

For many years, we really didn't know how IUD's worked and it was presumed they prevented implantation, but there was no evidence.  In the past 20-30 years, research has been done on the method and it indicates that the egg is not being fertilized in the first place and that prevention of implantation is not how the method works. 

The IUD's which contain progesterone do not rely on the hormone to prevent conception, BTW.  The bum rap on the copper IUD is that it causes women's periods to become heavier and crampier which meant a lot of women didn't like it (duh!).  The progesterone is release into the uterine lining which causes it to be very thin and actually makes the period lighter and less crampy than without the IUD.  The FDA has approved the progestin IUD for use in women with heavy periods and cramping even if they don't need it for birth control.

I do think it is unlikely Jill is using an IUD, though.  More likely, she is using condoms and foam and she may also be using natural family planning which relies on timing and awareness of the woman's cycle.

ETA: Of course, all of Jill's claims about hormonal contraception; that it causes miscarriages and can cause infertility is complete bullsh**.

Edited September 30, 2020 by doodlebug

[sATL]

9 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Just a point of information: IUD's do NOT seem to prevent implantation of fertilized eggs.  Instead, the presence of the IUD in the uterus sets up an immune response which decapacitates sperm, so they cannot fertilize an egg.  So, women using IUD's are not conceiving and there is no 'abortion' happening.

For many years, we really didn't know how IUD's worked and it was presumed they prevented implantation, but there was no evidence.  In the past 20-30 years, research has been done on the method and it indicates that the egg is not being fertilized in the first place and that prevention of implantation is not how the method works.

I do think it is unlikely Jill is using an IUD, though.  More likely, she is using condoms and foam and she may also be using natural family planning which relies on timing and awareness of the woman's cycle.

Speaking of which there is some app that younger women sing praises about that does an "better" job in being aware of cycle and ovulation. The last time I was in the OBs office 2 of them were looking at their phone. I looked it up at the time but I forgot the name, of it but it had high reviews.

Again - I am out of the running of to event think of having my phone track my cycle, setting of some kind of ringtone, send an email, etc. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by sATL

[Growsonwalls]

I just think it's great that Jill now views sex as something pleasurable to be enjoyed in a marriage, and not the thing to do in order to have more babies. Go Jilly. To use her favorite phrase - yay!