Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Tasya]

I wasn't targeting any specific poster, but ok...

Again, why does she deserve a pass and her sisters do not? I'm genuinely curious as to the thought process regarding Jill's positive narrative vs that of her sisters. 

[jcbrown]

4 hours ago, satrunrose said:

I would pay money for that guy to have gone all "parable of the lost sheep" on his smarmy ass. Yeesh, if you're going to thump the bible, at least know what's in it. 

I read this first as "if you're going to hump the bible" and considering the crew we're discussing, it seemed plausible and took me a minute to realize that's not what you wrote.

[Future Cat Lady]

I don't think anyone in the snarker community believes that the Dillards are now liberals. We all know they still have their horrible beliefs and they probably always will.

However, Jill has shown some growth. It's a big thing for her to go against her family. That goes against everything she has been taught as a child.

[AstridM]

34 minutes ago, Tasya said:

I wasn't targeting any specific poster, but ok...

Again, why does she deserve a pass and her sisters do not? I'm genuinely curious as to the thought process regarding Jill's positive narrative vs that of her sisters. 

Who said this, specifically? 

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

However, Jill has shown some growth. It's a big thing for her to go against her family. That goes against everything she has been taught as a child.

Yeah, I'm sure Jill is still a fundamentalist Christian, but her growth has come from separating IBLP from Christianity and realizing Gothard is bat-shit crazy. 

[GeeGolly]

I agree Jill and Jinger have shown remarkable strength in writing their books. 

I do wonder though if either have grown enough to be okay with say, their kids writing a book about them in a decade or so. What if Felicity becomes pro women's reproductive rights and decides to write a book about how she had to disentangle her parents' beliefs from her own about realizing her worth as a woman independent of a man. Or if Izzy grows up and becomes a supporter of the LGBTQ+ community and writes a book about how his parents raised him to believe their way was the only right way to think, so much so they went to other countries to try and change others' beliefs.

I think its fair to say Jill has opened her eyes to needing boundaries when dealing with an authoritarian parent(s?) and Jinger has realized she was raised in a cherry picked religious cult. I think their children are being raised in less restrictive environments than they were raised in, but neither one of them have grown enough to see how damaging their continued fundamentalist beliefs are to their children and the world at large.

But who knows, growth is often a slow process. Maybe some day Derick will be a gay rights attorney and Jeremy will have his own Universalist church.

[MaryAnneSpier]

Jill is still only in her early 30s and has changed and grown a lot in her eight years of marriage. There's still plenty of time for her to leave behind some of the less-than-good aspects of Christianity. Her kids are in school, and if it's public school, the boys and Jill will be exposed to more types of people and viewpoints. Give her time.

[MaryAnneSpier]

In the book, JB tells Jill that when he and Michelle pass, each kid will get 1/19th of all their wealth as an inheritance instead of a payment for their work on the show. But now that there's no show, lots of legal bills for Josh, ever-increasing children to provide for, etc. would there even be anything left?

I think in this case, one in the hand is worth two in the bush. And now that Jill has taken the payment, is she disinherited? Will any of the Duggar offspring who stand up to JB or even speak out against Gothard/IBLP be disinherited? My bet is yes.

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Jill is still only in her early 30s and has changed and grown a lot in her eight years of marriage. There's still plenty of time for her to leave behind some of the less-than-good aspects of Christianity. Her kids are in school, and if it's public school, the boys and Jill will be exposed to more types of people and viewpoints. Give her time.

I don't think having the boys in school will contribute to Jill's growth. Derick went to public school and he embraces the less-than-good aspects of their type of Christianity, as does Derick's mother, brother and SIL. So much so Derick's brother quit his job at the BSA because they became more inclusive.

[AstridM]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I agree Jill and Jinger have shown remarkable strength in writing their books. 

I do wonder though if either have grown enough to be okay with say, their kids writing a book about them in a decade or so. What if Felicity becomes pro women's reproductive rights and decides to write a book about how she had to disentangle her parents' beliefs from her own about realizing her worth as a woman independent of a man. Or if Izzy grows up and becomes a supporter of the LGBTQ+ community and writes a book about how his parents raised him to believe their way was the only right way to think, so much so they went to other countries to try and change others' beliefs.

I think its fair to say Jill has opened her eyes to needing boundaries when dealing with an authoritarian parent(s?) and Jinger has realized she was raised in a cherry picked religious cult. I think their children are being raised in less restrictive environments than they were raised in, but neither one of them have grown enough to see how damaging their continued fundamentalist beliefs are to their children and the world at large.

But who knows, growth is often a slow process. Maybe some day Derick will be a gay rights attorney and Jeremy will have his own Universalist church.

I absolutely hope Felicity and Israel write those books!

[GeeGolly]

13 minutes ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

In the book, JB tells Jill that when he and Michelle pass, each kid will get 1/19th of all their wealth as an inheritance instead of a payment for their work on the show. But now that there's no show, lots of legal bills for Josh, ever-increasing children to provide for, etc. would there even be anything left?

I think in this case, one in the hand is worth two in the bush. And now that Jill has taken the payment, is she disinherited? Will any of the Duggar offspring who stand up to JB or even speak out against Gothard/IBLP be disinherited? My bet is yes.

I've said this all along. If JB&M were to die with $8 million in assets that would only be around $400,000 per 19 kids. Sure the money could grow, but it can also decrease. JB&M are only in their 50s, they likely have 30+ years left in them, so, like you said, who knows how much if anything will be left.

[AstridM]

15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't think having the boys in school will contribute to Jill's growth. Derick went to public school and he embraces the less-than-good aspects of their type of Christianity, as does Derick's mother, brother and SIL. So much so Derick's brother quit his job at the BSA because they became more inclusive.

Hopefully school contributes to the boys’ growth, even if not Jill’s. 

[P2C2E]

There's no way to predict how anyone will change. My parents did everything "right". I was homeschooled and went to a religious private college. 20 years later, my beliefs are almost polar opposite to how I was raised. 

I think Jill will continue to change and grow over time because she is learning the skills to do so. She has shown a willingness to be introspective and question things she was told as truth. Those are the people who change. She has met new people, read new books, had new experiences, and then embraced what she could learn from them. Who knows what that next new thing will be? Maybe one of her neighbors will be queer and that willingness to learn will help her question her own thoughts and views.

If I'd been in the public eye 20 years ago, y'all would be writing hateful things about me. But I've changed. And Jill could too. It starts with introspection, and Jill has shown that.

[AstridM]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I've said this all along. If JB&M were to die with $8 million in assets that would only be around $400,000 per 19 kids. Sure the money could grow, but it can also decrease. JB&M are only in their 50s, they likely have 30+ years left in them, so, like you said, who knows how much if anything will be left.

And kids like Joe and Jessa with their ever-increasing families and lack of independent income appear to be getting more than their 1/19 share. What if one of their kids needs a lot of expensive medical treatment for some reason?

Edited September 19, 2023 by AstridM

[farmgal4]

On 9/12/2023 at 2:40 PM, Heathen said:

I'm first in line at my library. I guess there are not many interested in it here. I'm waiting for it to come in. 

Ditto!

[Trillium]

If things are going to change for the better, I have to have hope that Jill and people like her continue to change. She might, she might not. She’s shown she has a drive to heal, to question things she was lead to believe. She literally had all critical thinking skills snuffed out of her, and it’s only been the last maybe 5-6 years where she’s stated to untangle that, and really from the book it seems the most progress has been in the last 3 years. Add the trauma she has from her abuse and being on TV, she’s got a lot to heal from and her therapist told her as much. Calling out her dad and calling IBLP a cult is a huge step. It might be the last step, but the vibe from reading the book is that she’s not done. 
 

Side note, I have zero issue or her cashing in on this.  Her dad, TLC, People Mag, and various other entities have made a lot of money off of her. Here and other places on the internet, she’s content to talk about. Why shouldn’t she be the one to profit off of it for once? 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Trillium

[Ohiopirate02]

32 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't think having the boys in school will contribute to Jill's growth. Derick went to public school and he embraces the less-than-good aspects of their type of Christianity, as does Derick's mother, brother and SIL. So much so Derick's brother quit his job at the BSA because they became more inclusive.

I agree.  I have also seen how public schools reflect the values of their community.  It very well could be that the rest of the parents in Israel and Samuel's school(s) are cut from the same cloth as the Dillards.  I suspect this is the case.  Public school does not always equate to liberal or progressive.  The public schools in conservative, Bible-thumping communities have conservative, Bible-thumping administrators and teachers.

[AstridM]

32 minutes ago, Trillium said:

If things are going to change for the better, I have to have hope that Jill and people like her continue to change. She might, she might not. She’s shown she has a drive to heal, to question things she was lead to believe. She literally had all critical thinking skills snuffed out of her, and it’s only been the last maybe 5-6 years where she’s stated to untangle that, and really from the book it seems the most progress has been in the last 3 years. Add the trauma she has from her abuse and being on TV, she’s got a lot to heal from and her therapist told her as much. Calling out her dad and calling IBLP a cult is a huge step. It might be the last step, but the vibe from reading the book is that she’s not done. 
 

Side note, I have zero issue or her cashing in on this.  Her dad, TLC, People Mag, and various other entities have made a lot of money off of her. Here and other places on the internet, she’s content to talk about. Why shouldn’t she be the one to profit off of it for once? 

And she spent her entire childhood and young adulthood as free labor for Boob and MEchelle. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by AstridM

[GeeGolly]

14 minutes ago, Trillium said:

If things are going to change for the better, I have to have hope that Jill and people like her continue to change. She might, she might not. She’s shown she has a drive to heal, to question things she was lead to believe. She literally had all critical thinking skills snuffed out of her, and it’s only been the last maybe 5-6 years where she’s stated to untangle that, and really from the book it seems the most progress has been in the last 3 years. Add the trauma she has from her abuse and being on TV, she’s got a lot to heal from and her therapist told her as much. Calling out her dad and calling IBLP a cult is a huge step. It might be the last step, but the vibe from reading the book is that she’s not done. 

Side note, I have zero issue or her cashing in on this.  Her dad, TLC, People Mag, and various other entities have made a lot of money off of her. Here and other places on the internet, she’s content to talk about. Why shouldn’t she be the one to profit off of it for once? 

I agree, I wrote a similar post about Jinger's book. I think Jill's and more so Jinger's have opened a door. Time will only tell if either one has the desire to push any further.

I also agree Jinger and Jill should be entitled to make money off their stories. I do wonder why Jill's book seemed to produce more interest though.

[realityfan26]

2 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Ditto!

I just checked and my library has no hard copies and 2 audiobooks. There are a total of 28 hard copies in my library's consortium. 

[sagittarius sue]

2 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Ditto!

I put it on Hold two weeks ago, and checking yesterday I'm 40th in the line of 78 holds for a single copy that hasn't arrived yet.  I'm sure they'll probably order 3 or 4 more copies.

[Madtown]

Jill just posted a behind the scenes of recording the book on Instagram.. She said she was excited to do it and to give a voice to her feelings. She said that we could probably hear it in her voice because she cried every single day she was recording it.

[satrunrose]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I also agree Jinger and Jill should be entitled to make money off their stories. I do wonder why Jill's book seemed to produce more interest though.

I think it's the context. I'm glad that Jinger finds her current theology liberating, but switching one cult that tells women to sit down, shut up and keep breeding for another that still says to sit down and shut up (breeding at your discretion) just isn't that interesting to me as a non-conservative Christian(ish person). Jill's, on the other hand, answers some of the questions I've had forever about how the money was structured and why so many of these kids are staying in their parents' orbits. 

[AstridM]

3 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

I think it's the context. I'm glad that Jinger finds her current theology liberating, but switching one cult that tells women to sit down, shut up and keep breeding for another that still says to sit down and shut up (breeding at your discretion) just isn't that interesting to me as a non-conservative Christian(ish person). Jill's, on the other hand, answers some of the questions I've had forever about how the money was structured and why so many of these kids are staying in their parents' orbits. 

Breeding at her husband’s discretion.🥲

[satrunrose]

Exactly, I'm not prepared to call that freedom.

[mythoughtis]

I don’t expect or need the Dillards to become totally inclusive type people.  Or to embrace ideas totally foreign to them.   We are best served by having people with different ideas meeting in the middle. That’s what I hope the Dillards grow into - people that recognize not everyone has to think, believe, dress, behave like them to be deserving of respect and a live and let live philosophy. They don’t have to be best buddies with everyone. 
 

I think this book shows that they have at least realized they don’t have to think in lockstep with JB.  So maybe they will be more accepting of people who don’t think in lockstep with them.   

[MMEButterfly]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:44 AM, BetyBee said:

Apparently, even after the adult kids marry, JB retains all power and must be consulted before any big ticket decisions. I wonder who would have taken his place after he dies? Josh????!!!!

JB certainly didn't honor his own father. Quite the opposite spinning him around in a desk chair.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, MMEButterfly said:

JB certainly didn't honor his own father. Quite the opposite spinning him around in a desk chair.

He badmouthed JL in his IBLP stump speeches. I think he likes to think he succeeded in spite of his wayward father. 

[AstridM]

10 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He badmouthed JL in his IBLP stump speeches. I think he likes to think he succeeded in spite of his wayward father. 

So really, Jill is just following in her father’s footsteps. If it was ok for him, why not for Jill?

[sagittarius sue]

8 minutes ago, AstridM said:

So really, Jill is just following in her father’s footsteps. If it was ok for him, why not for Jill?

JB probably thought that as his father was so sinful he was unworthy of respect while he is such a godly man he's entitled to complete obedience from his family.

[AstridM]

JB also set the example of openly and publicly shaming his own sibling for many years. 

[GeeGolly]

48 minutes ago, AstridM said:

So really, Jill is just following in her father’s footsteps. If it was ok for him, why not for Jill?

And like I mentioned earlier, why not for Izzy, Sam and Fred? Evolving is good, having a family chain of publicly dissing parents, probably not so good.

[kaleidoscope]

Does anyone have information about "Alice" resurfacing because of Jill's book, and wanting to add more details about what happened behind the scenes in the Duggar family?

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, kaleidoscope said:

Does anyone have information about "Alice" resurfacing because of Jill's book, and wanting to add more details about what happened behind the scenes in the Duggar family?

I thought that Alice passed away some years ago. 

[kaleidoscope]

People were saying she was a parent of one of the Holts, but it seems she is coming forward and saying that is not true and is wanting to speak.  I'm not on Reddit, Instagram or Free Jinger.  Is anyone hearing anything?  Allegedly, she wants to add details to what Jill had to say in her book.

Edited September 20, 2023 by kaleidoscope

[Salacious Kitty]

Word on the street that this person is claiming to be connected in some way to the babysitter. I'm taking it with a HUGE salt lick. 

[Tdoc72]

2 hours ago, MMEButterfly said:

JB certainly didn't honor his own father. Quite the opposite spinning him around in a desk chair.

Because it wasn’t about the parents’ umbrella of authority. It was about JimBob’s authority.  He wants to control his wife and kids but doesn’t want anyone to control him. That’s why I loved the judge smacking him down.  I don’t think he gets much pushback otherwise. 
~~~~
As a parent, I’ll keep my kid safe under my umbrella but at some point, I hope that I taught them enough so they can handle their own umbrella. 

[Heathen]

46 minutes ago, kaleidoscope said:

People were saying she was a parent of one of the Holts, but it seems she is coming forward and saying that is not true and is wanting to speak.  I'm not on Reddit, Instagram or Free Jinger.  Is anyone hearing anything?  Allegedly, she wants to add details to what Jill had to say in her book.

I always thought "Alice" was a younger person, maybe a friend of one of the Holt kids. According to Reddit, though, "Alice" was Bobye Holt's mother and is now deceased. 

WTF wouldn't an adult, especially an older one, speak out (to CPS!) instead of writing a letter that she didn't send but instead stuffed in a book?! That's why I think she must have been a teenager. 

[Salacious Kitty]

That's why I am taking this sudden "re-emergence" of Alice with buckets of salt. She latched on to WOACB of all people. An attention whore would do that to watch fur fly. 

[ginger90]

There have been many stories thrown around about who Alice is. 

[louannems]

On 9/17/2023 at 6:12 AM, ChiCricket said:

  I "borrowed " this from a different forum.

I thought it was interesting that TLC paid for all the food from their filmed grocery trips.

Jill said they were able to get much different stuff than what they normally had to eat all the time.

So Michelle couldn’t even be bothered to cook up a big crockpot or pressure cooker full of beans.  Instead she bought those little cans for that humongous family.  Even with just five kids, my mom never did that.  We also made our own burritos, never buying them frozen.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, louannems said:

So Michelle couldn’t even be bothered to cook up a big crockpot or pressure cooker full of beans.  Instead she bought those little cans for that humongous family.  Even with just five kids, my mom never did that.  We also made our own burritos, never buying them frozen.

I suspect Michelle has never liked to cook and may not even really know how, which would explain why her daughters are all so inept at that. 

What I found interesting too was the reveal the tater tot casserole was from a recipe book from another fundie family. It would certainly explain why they're so obsessed with it when it's not at all something I associate with people in Arkansas cooking. Just anecdotally I never encounter that where I am in NWA, but I often hear people talking about it being more of a Midwest dish. My guess is they cribbed it from a Midwestern family, and it became a Duggar family staple because it is cheap, relatively easy to make, and capable of feeding a large group. 

[GeeGolly]

My mom grew up in OK. I swear she never met a casserole she wouldn't make, yet tater tot casserole was never one of them. 

Are casseroles in general a common thing in that area. Up until this moment I have always thought that, but maybe it was just my mom and/or her family.

Potatoes are pretty filling so tater tot casserole makes sense, but I was always surprised we didn't see the Duggars eating more rice. Rice is cheap, easy, versatile and filling. Many of my clients survive on that the last week of the month.

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

My mom grew up in OK. I swear she never met a casserole she wouldn't make, yet tater tot casserole was never one of them. 

Are casseroles in general a common thing in that area. Up until this moment I have always thought that, but maybe it was just my mom and/or her family.

Potatoes are pretty filling so tater tot casserole makes sense, but I was always surprised we didn't see the Duggars eating more rice. Rice is cheap, easy, versatile and filling. Many of my clients survive on that the last week of the month.

Yes people make casseroles but just not that one from what I've observed. I think there is some regional variance in Southern casseroles, in general. My grandmother is from Southern Appalachia, and she makes stuff that I don't see people in the Ozarks making. Including a squash casserole as a side dish. (And it's amazing and I can and have lived on it. LOL) Not saying people around here don't make them. But I just have never seen them out and about on people's tables, and when I mention she makes it, there's not this reaction of "Oh yes my family makes that too!" 

Not casserole related but chocolate gravy is another thing that I don't see people doing here, but it's definitely a Southern Appalachian thing. I was on another discussion board where someone mentioned it, and pretty much everyone whose family made it was from Western North Carolina/Eastern Tennessee/Northern Georgia/Eastern Kentucky. 

It just strikes me as funny because there was a lot of migration from Southern Appalachia to the Ozarks in the 1800s, and there is definitely some overlap in other things. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yes people make casseroles but just not that one from what I've observed. I think there is some regional variance in Southern casseroles, in general. My grandmother is from Southern Appalachia, and she makes stuff that I don't see people in the Ozarks making. Including a squash casserole as a side dish. (And it's amazing and I can and have lived on it. LOL) Not saying people around here don't make them. But I just have never seen them out and about on people's tables, and when I mention she makes it, there's not this reaction of "Oh yes my family makes that too!" 

Not casserole related but chocolate gravy is another thing that I don't see people doing here, but it's definitely a Southern Appalachian thing. I was on another discussion board where someone mentioned it, and pretty much everyone whose family made it was from Western North Carolina/Eastern Tennessee/Northern Georgia/Eastern Kentucky. 

It just strikes me as funny because there was a lot of migration from Southern Appalachia to the Ozarks in the 1800s, and there is definitely some overlap in other things. 

My mom made tons of different gravies, but never chocolate gravy. 

I think you're right, Michelle didn't have a heart for kids or cooking.

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

I think you're right, Michelle didn't have a heart for kids or cooking.

LOLOL When I posted my initial comment, I totally thought the same thing. "She doesn't have a heart for cooking!" 

Just now, GeeGolly said:

My mom made tons of different gravies, but never chocolate gravy. 

Yeah it goes with biscuits. My grandma never made it a lot for us, but her mom made it a lot for her grandchildren and it was a big favorite. To the point, one of my cousins was still pestering her about it after she stopped cooking, and she was finally like "I'm old, Sharon. Make your own damn chocolate gravy." 

[anyasmom]

I grew up in Northern Illinois, and we had tater tot casserole.  It was even served in school for hot lunch.  Ours was more of a mix between the Duggar recipe and green bean casserole though.

 

[AstridM]

35 minutes ago, Zella said:

LOLOL When I posted my initial comment, I totally thought the same thing. "She doesn't have a heart for cooking!" 

Yeah it goes with biscuits. My grandma never made it a lot for us, but her mom made it a lot for her grandchildren and it was a big favorite. To the point, one of my cousins was still pestering her about it after she stopped cooking, and she was finally like "I'm old, Sharon. Make your own damn chocolate gravy." 

If it’s anything like Mexican mole sauce, I’m in!

[YupItsMe]

I’m from south Louisiana and never heard of chocolate gravy until we retired to northern Arkansas a few years ago. It sounded nasty to me until I  actually tried it. It tastes like warm chocolate pudding. Yummy

i don’t follow Jill closely but it seems she cooks differently from her mom and is a bit more adventurous when eating out.

 

[SMama]

I don’t begrudge the kids eating “better” on TLC’s dime. Although I wouldn’t touch all the garbage they ate. I am however bothered by the bold face lying. I recall Michelle showing the receipts after the shopping trips, like a freaking peacock showing off how much they spent on groceries. JB and Michelle are pathological liars.