Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CalicoKitty]

8 hours ago, irisheyes said:

Is she going to find anyone?  I mean, I’d think long and hard before marrying someone whose dad is a sex offender.  Someday, your kids will be around him. 

Never mind.  Someone already mentioned what I was going to say.

Edited July 14, 2022 by CalicoKitty

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Didn't someone marry is daughter off to an anal rapist?  I forget the grooms's name, but I think the bride was Tabitha.  I really don't think dad-in-prison-for-sex-offenses will matter too much when it comes to finding spouses for Anna's kids.  As long as you are like-minded.....

I just mentioned Tabby Paine up thread. I think the groom was Tim Robertson, but there's really no way to confirm since they dropped off the face of the planet after they got married. The last I heard, they were living in TN near brother Chad.

[quarks]

10 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I would not be suprised if in his visits with the Chaplain, the Chaplain tries to read the Bible with him and finds out he is functionally illiterate.   Josh COULD improve his education in jail.   But he probably won't.

I think he might, if only to avoid boredom.

Also, this is a guy who for whatever reason really seems to need to feel superior to others - and be able to throw out little factoids to "prove" this, as demonstrated both in TLC clips and that fairly horrifying conversation with the federal agents during the raid. The jail does seem to offer a number of technical certificates, and although I don't think he will catch up to Derrick or Jeremy, or even JD's flight instructor thing, he might be able to wave around enough certificates to allow himself to feel superior to at least some of his brothers.

That said, assuming this story of meeting regularly with a jail pastor is true, I don't think this has anything to do with Josh's religious beliefs or desire for education. I think it's part of attempting to look like a model prisoner and a good Christian who would never, ever ever download CSAM - in the hopes that the chaplain will be a character witness for him later. Just part of the ongoing manipulation.

[awaken]

9 hours ago, drafan said:

Oh dear...I don't know where to put this...I had a close encounter of the Duggar kind..... I walked smack-dab into a store right behind Anna's family and some Ms. I was going to take pix, but , as snarky as I like to be, I couldn't do it. There were kids involved. I did gather up some thoughts ( store was kind of empty and they were all over the place) but I know I have to be careful what I post here...so maybe I'll think about it a little bit. Adults were Mama K and Nurie. Several M-kids. Lots of ratty hair. And Anna's bro did NOT marry up.

So Anna’s kids, Mrs Keller, and nurie?  I wonder if Anna traveled to Florida or the Kellers to Texas?  

[Salacious Kitty]

46 minutes ago, awaken said:

So Anna’s kids, Mrs Keller, and nurie?  I wonder if Anna traveled to Florida or the Kellers to Texas?  

I missed that Suzette was there. I suppose they could have traveled to AR to see Anna and David, but since Nurie was also spotted, I figure this happened in FL.

As for FF, he lacks ambition. The DC job fell into his lap; he didn't seek it out. I say this as a way to observe that I will be SHOCKED if he manages to improve himself while incarcerated. 

[Gemma Violet]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:02 AM, merylinkid said:

the Chaplain tries to read the Bible with him and finds out he is functionally illiterate.   

I really don't think he's functionally illiterate.  Yes, he's probably ignorant of a lot of things the rest of us learned in school and being in the secular world, but since he was the first born, I'm assuming he had more attention paid to his education and therefore can probably read at an adult level.  

[mythoughtis]

On 7/15/2022 at 4:59 PM, Gemma Violet said:

I really don't think he's functionally illiterate.  Yes, he's probably ignorant of a lot of things the rest of us learned in school and being in the secular world, but since he was the first born, I'm assuming he had more attention paid to his education and therefore can probably read at an adult level.  

Thinking way  back to when he and Anna were engaged… Josh escorted his sisters to Anna’s parents to help sew bridesmaid dresses.  One evening, the show filmed Josh taking his sisters to dinner.  He had to read the menu out loud to them because they read so poorly. It was sad to watch. 

[Heathen]

18 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Thinking way  back to when he and Anna were engaged… Josh escorted his sisters to Anna’s parents to help sew bridesmaid dresses.  One evening, the show filmed Josh taking his sisters to dinner.  He had to read the menu out loud to them because they read so poorly. It was sad to watch. 

This can't be said often enough. Scripted, staged, edited. Not reality. 

I would bet that if Smuggar ever read to his sisters, it was to be condescending. The girls are probably better readers than Smuggar. 

[cmr2014]

Reading is like anything else -- you have to practice to become proficient. We know that the Duggars did not -- to put it mildly -- encourage their children to read. While I don't think they're illiterate, I doubt that any of them reads at much more than a 5th or 6th grade level.

Edited July 17, 2022 by cmr2014

[Heathen]

2 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

Reading is like anything else -- you have to practice to become proficient. We know that the Duggars did not -- to put it mildly -- encourage their children to read. While I don't think they're illiterate, I doubt that any of them reads at much more than a 5th or 6th grade level.

True, but I would bet that the J'slaves had better reading skills from reading and teaching their younger siblings. The least proficient readers in the family are likely the lost girls, Josie, and the youngest howlers. 

[Stevie Nicks]

55 minutes ago, Heathen said:

This can't be said often enough. Scripted, staged, edited. Not reality. 

Originally, "reality" shows meant that the people weren't professional paid actors with SAG cards. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

Reading is like anything else -- you have to practice to become proficient. We know that the Duggars did not -- to put it mildly -- encourage their children to read. While I don't think they're illiterate, I doubt that any of them reads at much more than a 5th or 6th grade level.

Jessa has done some reading since she got married. She can correctly use a .50 cent word every now and then. 

[Gemma Violet]

3 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

Reading is like anything else -- you have to practice to become proficient.

I'm pretty sure they were encouraged to read the bible.  They probably didn't have any/many secular books to read, but I'd venture to guess that Jim Bob insisted their noses be in that bible in any spare time they had.  

[Rabbittron]

My mom wants to send Anna Dick and Jane  books. It might be good for the M Kids 

[cmr2014]

5 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Jessa has done some reading since she got married. She can correctly use a .50 cent word every now and then. 

I don't know how much reading she's done. Jill seems to have done some, and Jinger has at least opened a few for photo ops, I don't know if she's read them.

I agree with @Gemma Violet that they've probably read the Bible a lot, and I think that there's at least one Gothard approved concordance. People who read only the Bible often have a number of two bit words at their disposal without having much of an overall vocabulary.

[merylinkid]

I don't know if they READ the Bible so much as were allowed certain sections as approved reading.    If they were just free to read the whole thing they might run across the Song of Solomon and figure out God didn't want us all yelling NIKE every time a member of the opposite sex showed up.   Or that merely being around a person of the opposite sex was BAD.   Jesus had female friends after all.

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I don't know if they READ the Bible so much as were allowed certain sections as approved reading.    If they were just free to read the whole thing they might run across the Song of Solomon and figure out God didn't want us all yelling NIKE every time a member of the opposite sex showed up.   Or that merely being around a person of the opposite sex was BAD.   Jesus had female friends after all.

The fundies focus on the fire and brimstone portions of the Old Testament and the writings of Paul in the New. Jesus who? 

[GeeGolly]

I just half listened to a show about young middle school and high school guys being fooled online into sending nude photos and videos. I think two or three spoke out, but possibly 100s were also fooled by one guy.

Basically a guy posed as a talent agent for a modelling agency and also used a bunch of different personas to get photos, actual sex or to humiliate those who stopped complying. This guy lived in a neighboring town and was actually SM friends, in his real name, with some of his victims, but they had no idea it was him. He was eventually stopped and arrested, but as the detectives told the victims their photos and videos are on the dark web - likely forever.

These brave young men did this show to help others who are already victims or are being approached now.

Josh is really among the scummiest of scum.

[MsJamieDornan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPU7ypYy2rk

So Josh has a  $50,000 lien on JimBoob's house?  And John David is no longer a pretend police man?

[Notabug]

1 hour ago, MsJamieDornan said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPU7ypYy2rk

So Josh has a  $50,000 lien on JimBoob's house?  And John David is no longer a pretend police man?

We heard about John David last fall, he is no longer a constable.

However, I don't see how any debt incurred by Josh would result in a lien on property his parents own.  Liens are a legal instrument and, as far as I know, they can only be used when the person owning the property is the person who owes the money.  If Josh owes money, his parents wouldn't be involved unless they co-signed a loan or something and I'd be surprised if JB would ever do that.

I tried to watch the video, but Katie is such a poor speaker, I couldn't concentrate.  She rambles all over the place, interjects her opinions as fact and cannot seem to construct a straightforward sentence.  She also can't stick to the topic and there are so many asides and irrelevant details that it is hard to follow..  I did enjoy the fairytale she told about Anna moving to some property that David and Priscilla own at Big Sandy to be near Josh.  Sure, Jan.

If there is a lien against JB's house, I'm sure some of our intrepid sleuths can find it.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Notabug

[crazy8s]

there is record on the Washington County tax page of a lien being placed on Josh 7/5/2022 by the Bureau of Prisons for the $50,000 but the 1 page attached document came up as Unavailable for Viewing when I looked and no address for Josh was shown.

[Salacious Kitty]

KJ is delusional, as usual. The Wallers sold their Big Sandy house shortly after they moved to Fort Worth. I think Robert Staddon bought it. He was TFDW's bestie at Gothard HQ for years.

[MsJamieDornan]

9 minutes ago, Notabug said:

However, I don't see how any debt incurred by Josh would result in a lien on property his parents own.  Liens are a legal instrument and, as far as I know, they can only be used when the person owning the property is the person who owes the money.

He listed his home address as JimBoobs house.  I'm just repeating what she said, And, I guess, she looked at county records.

[Notabug]

7 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

there is record on the Washington County tax page of a lien being placed on Josh 7/5/2022 by the Bureau of Prisons for the $50,000 but the 1 page attached document came up as Unavailable for Viewing when I looked and no address for Josh was shown.

So, this is for the fine that was part of his sentencing.  And does not involve any sort of a lien against any property owned by JimBob.  Presumably, the lien itself would have JB's address on it since Josh' residence, prior to incarceration, was at his father's.  That does not mean there is any sort of encumbrance on JB's property.  Katie is so bad with facts, once again, she has no idea what she's talking about.

Does anyone actually think it is news that the feds have filed against Josh to be sure they get their money in case he somehow manages to come into some cash?  I would expect that this is probably routine in cases like this, that they make sure their money is paid.first if there are any assets available.

So, once again, Katie spends 15 minutes 'explaining' important news that is neither news, nor important.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Notabug

[SMama]

5 minutes ago, Notabug said:

We heard about John David last fall.

However, I don't see how any debt incurred by Josh would result in a lien on property his parents own.  Liens are a legal instrument and, as far as I know, they can only be used when the person owning the property is the person who owes the money.  If Josh owes money, his parents wouldn't be involved unless they co-signed a loan or something and I'd be surprised if JB would ever do that.

I tried to watch the video, but Katie is such a poor speaker, I couldn't concentrate.  She rambles all over the place, interjects her opinions as fact and cannot seem to construct a straightforward sentence.  She can't stick to the topic.  I did enjoy the fairytale she told about Anna moving to some property that David and Priscilla own at Big Sandy to be near Josh.  Sure, Jan.

If there is a lien against JB's house, I'm sure some of our intrepid sleuths can find it.

I’m not a lawyer but I agree with you that the FF’s debt would not result on a lien on the TTH. Unless the FF was on the deed and no way tight wad JB would ever allow it.!That video is further proof that WOACB just makes things up as she goes along. And you are right that she considers her wild theories as fact.

Of course the FF has the same address as the TTH. He and family resided in a windowless, perhaps only one exit, converted werehouse. 

The home Balls referred to is owned by Anna’s sister and her very wealthy husband. I wonder if she is referring to the beach house the Rods used last summer and were not invited back for what I’m sure are very good reasons. Even if it is another property with no one living there does not mean they are not using it as an Air B&B or any other short term rental. 
I’m always fascinated by people assuming someone can just produce a home and take on the full financial burden of Anna and 7 kids. Most people with multiple homes are investing in rental income.

JD no longer cos playing as a cop is really old news. Likewise, the FF allegedly spending time with the chaplain or doing bible study was already reported. Those reports may also be conjecture based on the FF’s life long con MO. 
 

[Salacious Kitty]

The home owned by Rebekah and her wealthy husband is down by Corpus Christi, nowhere near Seagoville. For that matter the Home I mentioned in Big Sandy is hardly any closer than Arkansas. And that home is already sold to a non family member. 

KJ is talking out of her ass, as usual.

[LilJen]

On 7/19/2022 at 6:16 PM, GeeGolly said:

I just half listened to a show about young middle school and high school guys being fooled online into sending nude photos and videos. I think two or three spoke out, but possibly 100s were also fooled by one guy.

Basically a guy posed as a talent agent for a modelling agency and also used a bunch of different personas to get photos, actual sex or to humiliate those who stopped complying. This guy lived in a neighboring town and was actually SM friends, in his real name, with some of his victims, but they had no idea it was him. He was eventually stopped and arrested, but as the detectives told the victims their photos and videos are on the dark web - likely forever.

These brave young men did this show to help others who are already victims or are being approached now.

Josh is really among the scummiest of scum.

Every child should be told, over and over, that ANY instance of sending or receiving nude/partially nude pictures of anyone under 18 is considered child porn/child sexual abuse and can result in charges. This includes instances where both parties consent. Underage images sent and/or received are, I repeat, subject to criminal charges. Thanks to my short career that included kids who were DCS & probation cases stemming from the exchange of these kinds of images. 🙁

[ginger90]

Josh Duggar granted extension to file appeal brief
 

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-granted-extension-to-file-appeal-brief/

[sagittarius sue]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Josh Duggar granted extension to file appeal brief
 

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-granted-extension-to-file-appeal-brief/

His defense team must be on Duggar-time.

[Rabbittron]

What else is new? They will be appealing something or other for the next 20 years. 

[Cinnabon]

13 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

What else is new? They will be appealing something or other for the next 20 years. 

And spending more and more $$$, lol.

[Salacious Kitty]

28 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

And spending more and more $$$, lol.

Money the FF apparently doesn't have. Wht else is there a lien against him for the $50k fine that was due at sentencing?

[Absolom]

The lien is standard procedure unless the person pays the fine almost immediately.  Few of them do.

[Salacious Kitty]

3 minutes ago, Absolom said:

The lien is standard procedure unless the person pays the fine almost immediately.  Few of them do.

Would paying the lien be considered an admission of guilt? Is he likely holding off paying pending his (futile) appeal?

Edited July 29, 2022 by Salacious Kitty
Forgot a word

[Absolom]

I doubt it would be an admission of guilt, but he is probably waiting on the appeal plus it's usually better to pay it with future money which relatively speaking is usually worth less.  

[Stevie Nicks]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

And spending more and more $$$, lol.

More of JimBlobs money, I'm sure. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, Stevie Nicks said:

More of JimBlobs money, I'm sure. 

Without a doubt. Anna has closed most of her LLCs. It's clear as mud how much money FF actually has.

[quarks]

I don't think paying the fine is an admission of guilt, but I do think it's possible that Josh and Anna didn't have $50,000 in a checking account, and it's taking some time for them to liquidate their remaining assets to pay this fine.

I also don't read all that much into the delay on the appeal. I'm assuming the main focus of the appeal is going to be on the legality of the original search by the feds - that's the only one of the original objections that seemed to have any merit to it, and because of the complexity of the original objection, I'm assuming that preparing the appeal for that is also complex.  I just hope that they aren't going to try to appeal/litigate the cell phone stuff again because wow did that turn out to be a waste of everyone's time. 

[Salacious Kitty]

20 minutes ago, quarks said:

I don't think paying the fine is an admission of guilt, but I do think it's possible that Josh and Anna didn't have $50,000 in a checking account, and it's taking some time for them to liquidate their remaining assets to pay this fine.

I also don't read all that much into the delay on the appeal. I'm assuming the main focus of the appeal is going to be on the legality of the original search by the feds - that's the only one of the original objections that seemed to have any merit to it, and because of the complexity of the original objection, I'm assuming that preparing the appeal for that is also complex.  I just hope that they aren't going to try to appeal/litigate the cell phone stuff again because wow did that turn out to be a waste of everyone's time. 

I wonder if they're going to go after Caleb Williams (I think that's his last name). They already tried the modem defense and was shot down by the prosecution's expert witness (and failed by their own "expert").

[quarks]

14 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I wonder if they're going to go after Caleb Williams (I think that's his last name). They already tried the modem defense and was shot down by the prosecution's expert witness (and failed by their own "expert").

My understanding is that this part of the appeals process doesn't involve finding other culprits or mounting any sort of defense; it's to argue that some portion of the investigation or the trial violated the law, and thus, the verdict has to be dismissed. So I don't think they're going to try the modem defense again, or go after anyone other than the judge and the federal agents who conducted the original investigation.

I am expecting them to argue that the original search - made before Josh Duggar was identified - was an illegal search in violation of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments. I don't think the federal appeals courts will be convinced, but we'll see, I guess.

[sagittarius sue]

5 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I wonder if they're going to go after Caleb Williams (I think that's his last name). They already tried the modem defense and was shot down by the prosecution's expert witness (and failed by their own "expert").

As I recall, the defense was free to call Williams as a witness, but they didn't.  His testimony would probably not have helped the defense at al.

[merylinkid]

An appeal is what we call "on the record."   There is no new evidence or witnesses presented.   it is just going over what was already done and tell the court that either 1) their rulling was wrong or 2) the evidence was applied wrong (it doesn't mean what you think it means).   

In FF's case this means if they are challenging the search, they are saying the Court should have granted the Motion to suppress and here are all the reasons why they should have.   Or they are going to still go with the damn router and point out how the fact the Feds didn't examine it gives rise to reasonable doubt as to whether or not FF was the one who downloaded it.   

If they chose not to call Caleb Williams rather than were prevented from calling him, he won't come up during the appeal at all.   If they were prevented from calling him tehn they could argue that preventing them from calling a witness they argue could have done it, they were prevented from presenting a meaningful defense.

(I'm writing a response brief this weekend in an appeal regarding CHILD SUPPORT for goodness' sake so this is all very fresh in my mind what the standards for appeal are.)

[ginger90]

There are exceptions to what can be used in a Federal appeal. 

[quarks]

The judge told the defense that they would not be allowed to ask Caleb Williams (who, for those of you who forgot, is a registered sex offender/felon who briefly worked at the car lot, but who was not there at the time of the crime) a specific line of questions. After that ruling, the defense chose not to call Williams to the stand. 

But it's not clear that they made that decision based on the judge's ruling. At the time, Williams was emailing and trying to cooperate with the prosecution, not the defense, and it seems reasonable to think that he might have been a hostile or at least unhelpful witness. Notably, even with Williams trying to help, the prosecution chose not to call him to the witness stand either - suggesting that the prosecution didn't think he would come across as a credible or helpful witness. Since then, Anna and the Burgess neighbors have been not-too-subtly trying to insinuate that Caleb Williams, not Josh Duggar, is the guilty party here, which I have to assume is not going to make Williams any more cooperative or credible.

So although the defense could presumably try to argue that the judge's ruling about Caleb Williams was just awful and changed the whole trial, I'm not sure if this is an approach they will want to use.

[dariafan]

Too much to hope he would have an attack of consciousness and accept his guilt 

[Stevie Nicks]

26 minutes ago, dariafan said:

Too much to hope he would have an attack of consciousness and accept his guilt 

I don't think FF has much of a conscience. 

[GeeGolly]

I read somewhere Anna liked some SM post knocking mental health meds. What an asshole.

[Insert Username]

Wasn’t it proven that Caleb was out of town (I think Oklahoma) that day?

[Cinnabon]

11 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I read somewhere Anna liked some SM post knocking mental health meds. What an asshole.

If she or Josh or any of their kids need any kind of medical treatment, I hope they turn it down, then. Don’t run to heathen medical professionals when you know better, Anna. 

[Tdoc72]

17 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I read somewhere Anna liked some SM post knocking mental health meds. What an asshole.

All her praying didn’t cure Josh’s troubles, so I’m not sure why praying should be expected to cure any mental health probs. I find myself not wanting to hate her…but then I kinda do.