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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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SMama

SMama

15 hours ago, YupItsMe said:

If they convinced themselves that Josh wouldn’t be convicted, Anna may really need to talk to him. She may be having to deal with financial, legal and medical things that she needs to consult him on.

I really hope, though, that she’s using the time to ream him out.

ETA: If I read it correctly there was a 6 day span where she didn’t call. (?)

There’s the Gothard world and the real world. In the real world a spouse doesn’t need permission from the other spouse to make medical, financial, and other decisions for their children. I’ve made many medical care decisions without my husband present.

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cmr2014

cmr2014

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29 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think Josh's primary concern for consequences was getting around Covenant Eyes and ensuring his family didn't find out to avoid another stint in Jesus Jail. I'm not sure it ever occurred to him the law would catch him.

 

I think it's possible that he wanted to get caught.

Ever since the first specials, Josh has always played it (to my eyes) like he was in on the joke, and knew that his parents were rubes and the whole thing was a farce. I think he hates all of it, and has desperately wanted out for a long time. I don't think he had the courage to make the break, and after he was forced to the the FRC he didn't think he had any options left. He wanted, either consciously or unconsciously, to blow the whole thing up, and has finally succeeded.

I may be imposing my own perspective on this, but I think he may be looking forward to the relative freedom of jail. He might be frightened, but I think he's also excited about the relative freedom. Sure, there will be people telling him when to get up and when to go to sleep, but his father won't be looking over his shoulder 24/7. His wife won't be monitoring his internet usage and yammering at him all day long. No one will be reporting back to his father about what he says or does. He has been -- for all intents and purposes -- in jail his entire life.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

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Josh may have been raised in a cult, but at a relatively young age, he became his own leader. His life as a young husband and father came with responsibilities, but no more so than the average guy. And his internet use was hardly what I would call monitored. The only thing the spyware looked for was sexual activity. Maybe he was tied to his family in a way he wished he wasn't, or really, maybe not. It seems to me Josh took full advantage of all the perks being a Duggar offers.

I don't think anyone would turn that life in, on purpose, to shit in public and live behind numerous locked doors.

Josh has major issues. Psychologically, he shares (non murderous) personality traits with serial killers. Obviously there is a spectrum with any mental illness and Josh is likely in the mild area of Antisocial Personality Disorder, but he definitely meets the criteria. Folks with APD rarely think they can be outsmarted, and that is what usually does them in. In addition to satisfying whatever horrific urges they have, they like playing the game of manipulation, of being the smartest and the game of not getting caught.

IMO, Josh's behaviors would only have escalated if he wasn't caught. I also think this would have gone on far longer if not for Josh's arrested development. His years on earth and his need for more, far outpaced his level of maturity. Like I noted above, jail/prison was never something Josh wanted, nor do I think he thought it was even a close possibility.

 

 

 

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

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4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh may have been raised in a cult, but at a relatively young age, he became his own leader. His life as a young husband and father came with responsibilities, but no more so than the average guy. And his internet use was hardly what I would call monitored. The only thing the spyware looked for was sexual activity. Maybe he was tied to his family in a way he wished he wasn't, or really, maybe not. It seems to me Josh took full advantage of all the perks being a Duggar offers.

I don't think anyone would turn that life in, on purpose, to shit in public and live behind numerous locked doors.

Josh has major issues. Psychologically, he shares (non murderous) personality traits with serial killers. Obviously there is a spectrum with any mental illness and Josh is likely in the mild area of Antisocial Personality Disorder, but he definitely meets the criteria. Folks with APD rarely think they can be outsmarted, and that is what usually does them in. In addition to satisfying whatever horrific urges they have, they like playing the game of manipulation, of being the smartest and the game of not getting caught.

IMO, Josh's behaviors would only have escalated if he wasn't caught. I also think this would have gone on far longer if not for Josh's arrested development. His years on earth and his need for more, far outpaced his level of maturity. Like I noted above, jail/prison was never something Josh wanted, nor do I think he thought it was even a close possibility.

 

 

 

I absolutely agree, Josh was raised to believe he was special, smarter than the rest of us and entitled to things that others couldn't have.  He thought he was too smart to get caught, that rules that apply to regular people didn't apply to someone as smart and special as him.  At the trial, it was pretty clear that he was actually less skilled than most at hiding his criminal activity, though I doubt he heard it or believes it.  I think he thought he was too clever to get caught and, that when he was caught, he would be able to finagle his way into being top dog in jail, too.  I think jail has been a rude awakening for him as he comes to see that nobody thinks he is special or smart or gifted, quite the opposite.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

6 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I absolutely agree, Josh was raised to believe he was special, smarter than the rest of us and entitled to things that others couldn't have.  He thought he was too smart to get caught, that rules that apply to regular people didn't apply to someone as smart and special as him.  At the trial, it was pretty clear that he was actually less skilled than most at hiding his criminal activity, though I doubt he heard it or believes it.  I think he thought he was too clever to get caught and, that when he was caught, he would be able to finagle his way into being top dog in jail, too.  I think jail has been a rude awakening for him as he comes to see that nobody thinks he is special or smart or gifted, quite the opposite.

The environment in which one is raised definitely contributes to developing personality disorders, but there's a genetic component too. I truly believe Josh would have been Josh even if raised in a different family. It doesn't take much to turn the existing APD switch to on.

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

The environment in which one is raised definitely contributes to developing personality disorders, but there's a genetic component too. I truly believe Josh would have been Josh even if raised in a different family. It doesn't take much to turn the existing APD switch to on.

Oh, absolutely, Josh is a bad seed.  His upbringing could've helped to mitigate it and lead him to less destructive choices, but his genetic wiring has a short.

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Jeanne222

Jeanne222

I still remember, like it was yesterday, the season when Josh went to Washington.

Anna pushing the baby buggie down Washington streets and the Duggers helping them move in.

Was that a dream?  Josh was uneducated and unpolished in the ways of Washington.  Did that make him think he was more than he was?

Did anybody ever think this isn't going to work out?  I can't remember his age but he was way out of his league!

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Zella

Zella

8 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think it's possible that he wanted to get caught.

Ever since the first specials, Josh has always played it (to my eyes) like he was in on the joke, and knew that his parents were rubes and the whole thing was a farce. I think he hates all of it, and has desperately wanted out for a long time. I don't think he had the courage to make the break, and after he was forced to the the FRC he didn't think he had any options left. He wanted, either consciously or unconsciously, to blow the whole thing up, and has finally succeeded.

I may be imposing my own perspective on this, but I think he may be looking forward to the relative freedom of jail. He might be frightened, but I think he's also excited about the relative freedom. Sure, there will be people telling him when to get up and when to go to sleep, but his father won't be looking over his shoulder 24/7. His wife won't be monitoring his internet usage and yammering at him all day long. No one will be reporting back to his father about what he says or does. He has been -- for all intents and purposes -- in jail his entire life.

I don't think he liked his post-FRC life and I'm not sure he truly subscribes to his parents' ideology beyond the part that thinks he is awesome. But I don't think he wanted to be caught. If he did, I think he would have gone much gentler into that good night than insisting on that farce of a defense. 

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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

9 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I think it's possible that he wanted to get caught.

Ever since the first specials, Josh has always played it (to my eyes) like he was in on the joke, and knew that his parents were rubes and the whole thing was a farce. I think he hates all of it, and has desperately wanted out for a long time. I don't think he had the courage to make the break, and after he was forced to the the FRC he didn't think he had any options left. He wanted, either consciously or unconsciously, to blow the whole thing up, and has finally succeeded.

I may be imposing my own perspective on this, but I think he may be looking forward to the relative freedom of jail. He might be frightened, but I think he's also excited about the relative freedom. Sure, there will be people telling him when to get up and when to go to sleep, but his father won't be looking over his shoulder 24/7. His wife won't be monitoring his internet usage and yammering at him all day long. No one will be reporting back to his father about what he says or does. He has been -- for all intents and purposes -- in jail his entire life.

I would rather be in prison than have to live my life surrounded by dozens and dozens of fundies watching my every move. At least in prison I could read in peace (at times).

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SusanM

SusanM

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

Did anybody ever think this isn't going to work out?  I can't remember his age but he was way out of his league!

I didn't follow things about the Duggars when this was going on - did anyone get the feeling that Josh himself realized he was out of his league?  The whole situation reminds me of someone lying on a resume to get a job and then figuring out on the first day that there was no way they could fake it.

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dariafan

dariafan

Just now, SusannahM said:

I didn't follow things about the Duggars when this was going on - did anyone get the feeling that Josh himself realized he was out of his league?  The whole situation reminds me of someone lying on a resume to get a job and then figuring out on the first day that there was no way they could fake it.

Honestly I don’t think he has that much self awareness 

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SusanM

SusanM

1 minute ago, dariafan said:

Someone on TikTok showed the clip of Anna saying at least she has a husband, and I know she said it.  But just hearing it come out of her pie hole and the tone.  Makes a person punchy

I have a cousin who is in a very unhappy marriage, as in endlessly complaining about her husband on FB but when I asked her why she stayed with him that's pretty much what she said.  She would rather be in an unhappy marriage with someone she seems to actively dislike then be on her own. To be fair her husband isn't a Josh Duggar but still.  I do not get it.

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merylinkid

merylinkid

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2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I still remember, like it was yesterday, the season when Josh went to Washington.

Anna pushing the baby buggie down Washington streets and the Duggers helping them move in.

Was that a dream?  Josh was uneducated and unpolished in the ways of Washington.  Did that make him think he was more than he was?

Did anybody ever think this isn't going to work out?  I can't remember his age but he was way out of his league!

He didn't see himself as unpolished and uneducated.   hell he was HANDED a high level director job.   Which only reinforced his belief he was special and better than everyone else.

To realize he was out of his depth, or to secretly want out so blew everything up, would take a HELL of a lot more self-awareness than this douchenozzle has EVER demonstrated.   

He and his entire family has ZERO introspection.    Nothing is ever their fault.   It's Satan or the people who want to see such a godly family brought down.   Not literally ANYTHING they have done brought them to this point.   It's everyone else who is out to get them.  

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madpsych78

madpsych78

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Dear Anna,

Yo, what's up?

Hey, when you said, "at least I have a husband," what that seemed to primarily imply was that at least you were not single.

Well, guess what? I come bearing fantastic news for you!

Josh is not your only means of "not being single." 

You didn't say "at least I have Josh." You said, "At least I have a husband."

Follow your words. Those exact words.

Leave Josh and find a new husband.

If you don't want to be single, you don't have to be single. If you stay married to Josh while he is in prison, you will be more single than if you divorced his ass. 

So leave Josh.

Sincerely,

Madpsych78

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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

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16 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Dear Anna,

Yo, what's up?

Hey, when you said, "at least I have a husband," what that seemed to primarily imply was that at least you were not single.

Well, guess what? I come bearing fantastic news for you!

Josh is not your only means of "not being single." 

You didn't say "at least I have Josh." You said, "At least I have a husband."

Follow your words. Those exact words.

Leave Josh and find a new husband.

If you don't want to be single, you don't have to be single. If you stay married to Josh while he is in prison, you will be more single than if you divorced his ass. 

So leave Josh.

Sincerely,

Madpsych78

Good luck to her finding a husband who can deal with her smug self, as well as 7 kids and the Duggar notoriety.

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SusanM

SusanM

2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Good luck to her finding a husband who can deal with her smug self, as well as 7 kids and the Duggar notoriety.

 I guess I thought of Anna as being this naive little goof who grew up in a cult and thought she landed a dream life as part of Duggarville.  It honestly didn't occur to me that she is just not a particularly nice person.   Now I know.

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Gemma Violet

Gemma Violet

1 hour ago, SusannahM said:

I didn't follow things about the Duggars when this was going on - did anyone get the feeling that Josh himself realized he was out of his league?  The whole situation reminds me of someone lying on a resume to get a job and then figuring out on the first day that there was no way they could fake it.

I remember reading something a few months ago that someone who knew him when he was in Washington said that he was very smug and know-it-all, even around those who were much more educated and experienced than him.  I can't remember where I read it, but possibly on this site.  Maybe someone here brought it here from Reddit or elsewhere.

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DXD526

DXD526

Smuggs was handed a nice job in a big city, and blew it. I can't imagine that job was very difficult; didn't it just require him to be an arsehole for (their version of) Jesus? To hate all the right people and be an agitator about it? And he probably got paid handsomely for it, too. Then lost it, because skanking around was more important. Wonder how much that wears on him these days? He has a lot of time to think now...

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Cinnabon

Cinnabon

50 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

I remember reading something a few months ago that someone who knew him when he was in Washington said that he was very smug and know-it-all, even around those who were much more educated and experienced than him.  I can't remember where I read it, but possibly on this site.  Maybe someone here brought it here from Reddit or elsewhere.

I remember that, too. I think one of his office assistants talked about that.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Don't forget he worked for FRC. If I'm remembering correctly, Josh wasn't let go because of his lack of 'skills', but because of the scandals. I'm guessing there were and still are many employees FRC that have unimpressive resumes both of the professional and personal kind. This happens in real life, in legit organizations and agencies, so I imagine in hate groups disguised as businesses its worse.

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

(edited)

You can Google an AMA on Reddit by a young woman who grew up IBLP-adjacent and worked at FRC when Josh did, for a lot of details. The short version: he was in over his head and didn't even realize how far. I originally posted more about that AMA but I think this isn't the place to rehash what's been posted on another website so I'll just leave it at that.

Edited by Jeeves
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merylinkid

merylinkid

2 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

The only reason why he got that job was because of his last name Duggar. 

But HE didn't see it that way.   WE know that, but to him, well, if he thought about it at all, sure his last name helped, because the WHOLE family is just so darn special and he is the specialist of them all.

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Rootbeer

Rootbeer

(edited)
1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

You can Google an AMA on Reddit by a young woman who grew up IBLP-adjacent and worked at FRC when Josh did, for a lot of details. The short version: he was in over his head and didn't even realize how far. I originally posted more about that AMA but I think this isn't the place to rehash what's been posted on another website so I'll just leave it at that.

I am sure FRC brought Josh on board because he had some name recognition and media presence.  He was there to bring attention to the cause and I don't think the leadership had any delusions that he was actually going to be useful outside of that,

Josh, however, raised in a family where formal education was dismissed as worthless, where his parents constantly told him how special and smart and capable he was and who also told all their kids that just a few minutes of observation would make them experts in any field,  probably expected to walk right in and take over and that everyone else would see his superiority and just step aside.

The Dunning,-Kruger effect describes the entire Duggar philosophy in a nutshell.

Edited by Rootbeer
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Jeanne222

Jeanne222

5 hours ago, SusannahM said:

I didn't follow things about the Duggars when this was going on - did anyone get the feeling that Josh himself realized he was out of his league?  The whole situation reminds me of someone lying on a resume to get a job and then figuring out on the first day that there was no way they could fake it.

I think he was brought on board for attention to the cause. The Dugger Name back then meant something.   To Fundie Nation that is!

Im pretty sure he was way out of his league concerning co workers. 

I think one call to poppa JimBob and Josh would be considering running for higher up in his Fundie office!

His is really a sad little story. 

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Zella

Zella

54 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I am sure FRC brought Josh on board because he had some name recognition and media presence.  He was there to bring attention to the cause and I don't think the leadership had any delusions that he was actually going to be useful outside of that,

Josh, however, raised in a family where formal education was dismissed as worthless, where his parents constantly told him how special and smart and capable he was and who also told all their kids that just a few minutes of observation would make them experts in any field,  probably expected to walk right in and take over and that everyone else would see his superiority and just step aside.

The Dunning,-Kruger effect describes the entire Duggar philosophy in a nutshell.

Yeah this was pretty much the gist of it. FRC nabbed him for his name only, but he was too clueless to figure out that was why he was wanted. She also said that Josh greatly exaggerated his contact list. LOL 

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Minivanessa

Minivanessa

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17 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Don't forget he worked for FRC. If I'm remembering correctly, Josh wasn't let go because of his lack of 'skills', but because of the scandals. I'm guessing there were and still are many employees FRC that have unimpressive resumes both of the professional and personal kind. This happens in real life, in legit organizations and agencies, so I imagine in hate groups disguised as businesses its worse.

Yes, they let him "resign" when the scandals broke in 2015. From the Reddit posts I mentioned above by a young woman who worked for FRC when The Family Felon did, FRC seems like a not untypical Washington DC policy/lobbying organization. Their staff includes people (I think generally young people) with college degrees and experience in politics in their state/local areas, who have busted their butts to get those jobs in DC and work to further whatever their ideology is. Then there are people like The Family Felon who get hired by some kind of influence, and have not worked their way into the job. I assume some of those hires work out fine, if the person has some skill or connections that can help the organization in raising funds or getting past some doorkeepers. 

But not The Felon. I'll share this little nugget from the Reddit discussions. Mr. Duggar would be late to meetings. One specific memory she shared was of him sauntering into the room, ten or more minutes late, and obviously expecting that of course they would not have started the meeting without him. Except - they had. Heh. Also, when he would speak up in meetings it would be to offer ideas that were - lame, and made clear he had no idea how things really worked in the world.  

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Westiepeach

Westiepeach

17 hours ago, Jeeves said:

You can Google an AMA on Reddit by a young woman who grew up IBLP-adjacent and worked at FRC when Josh did, for a lot of details. The short version: he was in over his head and didn't even realize how far. I originally posted more about that AMA but I think this isn't the place to rehash what's been posted on another website so I'll just leave it at that.

Would you mind PM’ing me the link to that AMA? I went on Reddit’s site and could not easily find it. Thanks!

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