Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[bluebonnet]

Forget TLC, I'm getting even more surprised that not a single sponsor has made a statement.  

[dillpickles]

Throwing Josh, Boob and Michelle aside, I hope the Duggar girls get a good attorney and sue the crap out of whoever released this information. It doesn't matter that names were redacted, anyone with half a brain can put two and two together and figure out who the victims were. I don't know the ins and outs of the FOIA, but I can't imagine it includes releasing info about the sexual abuse of minors.

http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/05/22/mama-

june-angry-suing-tlc-cancellation-josh-duggar-molestation-19-kids-and-counting

Maybe they should let mama june do the suing!

[Ljohnson1987]

If TLC isn't too far up the Duggars' ass, they'll cancel it.  They'd be the biggest hypocrites by not doing it.

[Chai]

again i am a mom who tries her best and puts my kids needs ahead of my own. I said above that i would make sure my daughters received all the counseling they needed. Josh too. Right after I the holy hell out of him so that sex would be the last thing on his mind.

[ZoloftBlob]

Does anyone know why Oprah did not pursue this back in 2006?

 

A guess? It was a vague allegation that everyone was denying. It sucks  to let something go but without police reports and with family denying it, what was Oprah supposed to pursue?

[GEML]

I doubt TLC cares about hypocrisy. I've always been suspicious that there was more to the HBB story.

We may also know why Jill dresses so dowdy. She may not be suffering from survivors guilt, but let's face it, it's common knowledge that everyone, ourselves included, talks about how much the other girls are so attractive and Jill's name comes up less often, whether be genetics or by effort. Might be by design on her part. She took the modesty lessons deeply to heart because it was safer to be the ugly duckling.

[BitterApple]

If they do get cancelled on TLC I wouldn't be surprised if a ratings-starved network picks them up. Love them or hate them, they're a cash cow and I think there will be even more morbid curiosity now that their dirty laundry has been aired. Despite what happened in the past, Jill and Jessa seem to enjoy being on camera and may do specials or interviews independent of the family. I think the biggest fear for Boob and Michelle right now is there's no longer any incentive for the kids to "keep sweet" now that the floodgates have opened. As others have noted, this might just be the tip of the iceberg in terms of family dirt.

[Jamiesmum]

Still in shock. I have been reading so much since the "news" broke that my head is in a spin, but a couple of thoughts have come through:

* Josh's apology is all about himself, what he went through and how he has recovered and gotten on with his life. No true repentance for what harm he has caused, or actions he has taken to obtain forgiveness for his "mistakes". (Calling it mistakes makes me see red every time I read it.)

* The comments from Anna read like a well worn script. This is what a good Gothard wife says and does.

* As so many other have said, it explains so much about various reactions from the older girls. To me, it explains the anxiety I have seen in Jana when it seems that things may be out of her control. I first noticed it in the Weight Watchers episode, where I recognised the look on her face as she lined up for weigh in. and later on when she was listening to the leader at the meeting and JB was goofing off. Another example is how she took Jill's bridesmaids' dresses and came up with alterations on the spot and did them all herself. Control over something she was doing, not thinking about anything else, being part of, yet separate to what was going on.

* I just hope that someone is looking after the other kids properly. They may not have access to the internet, but would know something is happening. Kids always do. While I do not think they need to be given the bald facts, they need to know something is happening. I truly doubt JB and M are thinking of the younger ones needs now.

* That Josh and John David never really seemed to get along. Yes, John David does come off as a bit of a doofus, but for all his ways, I think he is smarter than he appears. And he and Jana are still close. One of the older girls commented in an episode when they were preparing to go back home after the Josie/Little Rock eps, that JD was supposed to be doing something for them, but wouldn't, but Jana would speak to him and get it all sorted as she was the only one who could talk to him, and he would do things for her.

This is a bit longer than I thought it would be. Apologies for that. Thoughts will pop up as I type.

[neural-plasticity]

I understand this situation is different than Honey Boo Boo's, which is why I agree with most of the posters on here who are saying TLC will probably lay low with this family until trying to release the new season this fall. HOWEVER, the problem is that Josh isn't the only person with which I have an issue. I have a SERIOUS issue with how JB and Michelle handled this situation, and then handled the next 8 years on their TV show. To me, everything they've talked about with purity and raising their children is a lie. The show is a lie. I've always known about the bigoted things they do on the side, and I try to ignore that when watching their show (however hard that has been). But I can't sit back and continue to watch the show in the same format it has been, and I can't see them willing to talk honestly and openly about what happened. JB has too much pride in himself to admit ON CAMERA that their family has flaws, and have had serious issues as a result of the cult they are in.

[Janet Snakehole]

Re: feeling sorry for Josh, I might - might - have felt inklings of sympathy for him if his statement to People or FRC resignation had shown any degree of self-awareness and contrition for the rippling effects his abuse has had on his family. But there's none of that. It's all deflection and minimization and me, me, me. "I understood that if I continued down this wrong road that I would end up ruining MY life." "Past teenage mistakes." etc. I don't think he's shown any true sense of accountability for anything.

I was going to say this too.

This also indicates to me that Anna did not know the extent of what was going on. The statement a few pages back seems to me to indicate that Josh felt lustful feelings as a teenager, not that he committed abuse. To me, this seems like flowery language used by the Duggars to describe what normal teenagers feel, and I could see Josh confessing to Anna that he had an impure heart or some crap because to them, that is worth confessing.

My sympathies go to the girls, Anna, and the M kids. Also, my heart goes out to all of you sharing your stories.

[b2H]

I am wondering when the cancellation petition will be started.

Can TLC ignore the demands of what could be a huge number of viewers that would sign it without any reservations? Would the Dugger supporters out- number the cancellation folks?

[Ljohnson1987]

Smugs is so self-centered, that he doesn't give a shit about what the victims went through. It's all "Me, Me,Me".

[Jellybeans]

As far as Oprah, her producers turned the email over to authorities, I'm not sure what more she could have done.

Oprah never misses an opportunity to SAY something. Simply turning over the email isn't something I see her doing but maybe she did.

On another note (not directed to Bitter Apple) I have a picture of my son at 14. When I think back to him at that age, I can't help but compare his lifestyle to Josh. Josh did not have a normal life. His parents were always mimicking sexual positions in front of their kids. "We get to do it, you don't" kind of attitude. No hugs from the parents. Michelle's bikini talk...all the time. No hugs between siblings. Mine hugged all the time. Josh was not allowed to go on group dates without chaperones. I would take my kids to the bowling alley, group bike rides, skating, etc... time you could spend with friends of both sexes and learn more about how outside relationships work.

Michelle and Jim Bob, because of their actions put their kids into impossible situations. They alone, IMO are responsible for everything. They had every opportunity to rectify the situation with counseling, by letting the kids have a more normal life, showing them NORMAL affection.... I do not think they know what normal affection is. How are the kids to know? And no I am not justifying Josh's actions but I am saying he was 14 at the time with incredibly stupid, stupid parents.

Josh at 14 is not the man we see now. I think in many ways Josh is a victim of his parents.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Jellybeans

[HumblePi]

Clear

 

While I don't condone Josh's conduct, I think I view it as something that was created out of a life of deprivation, dictatorship and mind control.  His 14 year-old mind and body were likely not functioning as an average teen might. He had no healthy role models and limited normal social interaction.  And even if he had gone before a juvenile court judge, he would likely have received therapy and supervision, then had his record expunged when he was 18.  Too bad that didn't happen.  Instead, he continued to live under the reign of his uninformed parents, who did not get him professional help.  So, I"m not surprised he acted out again.

 

I agree with you. I had mentioned in a previous post that all the sexual suppression and guilt can not only be very harmful physically but it can also be dangerous emotionally. Teenagers shouldn't be told to quash their sexuality. The Duggars are all sexual beings like all humans are born to be. I had thought long ago that from 19 children, there's bound to be one or two that are sexually dysfunctional. I had also thought that there's going to be at least one of the children being gay or lesbian. The statistics loosely bantered around are 1 in 10 children in the US being gay or lesbian. That's great and I don't care who or how many are. But the fact is, there's surely one of the 19 that is gay or lesbian and if so, they will surely not be allowed to come out and be who they were meant to be and live a normal life in the skin they're most comfortable with. The cult they associate with are clearly anti-female, anti-gay and racist. The fact that Josh sexually molested some of his sisters isn't surprising in the least since those kids grow up in a great big invisible religious bubble and the sisters are considered to be lesser creatures anyway and subject to the rule of the males

[BitterApple]

I am wondering when the cancellation petition will be started.

Can TLC ignore the demands of what could be a huge number of viewers that would sign it without any reservations? Would the Dugger supporters out- number the cancellation folks?

Unless a petition outnumbered the weekly viewership of a couple million and the sponsors got antsy, I'm not convinced it would make a difference. We're a nation of people who are quick to be outraged yet also quick to forget. The news cycle keeps on spinning and while the Duggars will be tainted they have a pretty strong following who are already defending them. I think TLC is going to wait to see how this plays out before making any major moves.

[Fuzzysox]

Does anyone know why Oprah did not pursue this back in 2006? She must have believed the email (or whatever it was) at that time stating that this sort of thing was going on in the Duggar family, because she immediately pulled the plug on them and sent them packing.

 

Oprah was a victim of sexual abuse herself when young. There's no more powerful person in television than Oprah Winfrey. Why did she not insist that this be investigated further? Something must have gone on behind the scenes - some kind of deal - and I'd love to know what it was.

I said the same thing a couple of pages back. I doubt Oprah even knew about the email instead one of her producers did and who knows what they told Oprah. Oprah would have been all over it or not she didn't seem to act fast when one of the girls at her school was being abused.

The only good that can come of this whole mess is that people are opening their eyes to the horrors of abuse. Fundies will question their Gothard beliefs and walk away. Doubt it will happen without heavy doses of deprogramming.

[JoanArc]

I'm enjoying the responses in this thread. The foundations have really been rocked. My random thoughts:

 

*TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. If someone seems off, they are. The spidey sense is very, very real. The Duggars (JB, M, Josh) weren't just quirky people. They were fucking monsters. People that love to tell you how moral they are, aren't.

 

*The Josiah arm incident needs investigating, now. As does his time at Alert.

 

*Michelle is a truly despicable mother. Honestly, I hate her more anyone of them at this point. She DID NOT protect her children, and did not raise them. I hope the media picks this up and drives it home. Michelle's ability to say the right thing, at the right time, needs to be DEMOLISHED by the media. I hope she has to sell the MOTY award to pay for more Xanax.

 

*Maybe they knew this was coming for a long time, and didn't really give a shit that Si was courting someone not 100% white, who loves the spotlight. They knew there'd be no spotlight by the time they wed.

 

*I'm convinced more incidents, either with Josh or someone else, went down. We're probably only getting 50% of the story - and likely the better 50%. Jim Bob talking about all the fond times he went into the Girls dorm sound extra perverted now.

 

*I'm still seeing NO WAY The Duggars or TLC can come back from this. The Kids/Victims only hope is a tell all.

 

*JB holds grudges. He won't give Josh a carlot. Josh is unhireable based on google searches. Josh better have enough to start his own tiny business. His only employer for the rest of his life will be himself. Maybe he can afford a pop-up camper, too, if he sells the Arkansas house.

[Ljohnson1987]

Both J'Chelle and Boob act like pervs in front of their kids. This is what happens.

[Oldernowiser]

Did ever occur to the PARENTS that maybe they needed to dial down their own constant references to sex?

You put a bunch of teens together with nothing for mental distraction except SOTDRT and the Bible, no real physical outlets like sports, don't allow them friends or outside activities, make everything in the entire world about whether their father was effectively impregnating their mother on any given night (but you kids better not even think about sex or Hell!!!!), pay no real attention to any of them, and then indoctrinate the girls to believe that if anything happened it would be their fault...it's a perfect storm for exactly what happened.

There is also a power dynamic here...Josh was the oldest son and very much like his idiot father. Which of the little girls is going to stand up to him, especially how they've been trained since infancy to shut up, keep sweet, and service males?

[graefin]

Has it been established that the request to destroy the police report was filed before this hit the news? Why would they have waited to do so until now instead of years ago? I sort of assumed that the request came after the shit hit the fan, but the former makes more sense in terms of how this all came out.

[Boton]

 

The Duggars are repressed. They are not allowed to express normal, healthy desires in any way. That's repression. 14 year old boys are hormonal and are learning to understand what is going on with their bodies. Masturbation is a normal, healthy outlet for those feelings....

 

Yes, there is this element to it.  I don't know exactly what happened; I wasn't there.  And I in no way condone a brother taking sexual advantage of his sisters.

 

But there is the possibility that we are looking at a situation in which Josh is a victim as well as a perpetrator.  If he was raised to believe that every sexual question, every bit of curiosity, every uncontrolled or inadvertent erection, and every temptation to self-pleasure was a ticket to hell, then it casts a slightly different light on things.  What was presumably done is still reprehensible, but it might have been done at the hands of a scared, confused, immature boy who felt that he was already damned for a normal human response.  And that would add to the tragedy.

[Shopgirl406]

It's easy to say, and I would love to see Jill & Derick and Ben and Jessa getting as far away from this mess as possible, but they won't.  There are still all the little ones at home and I don't see either Jill or Jessa totally leaving them to be at the mercy of Jim Bob & Michelle.  Jana and Joy have each other to lean on at the moment, however all the older girls are going to feel very protective of "their" younger children.  I don't see Jana going anywhere anytime soon either, and that just breaks my heart.  She still has "her" younger children to raise and protect.

[ghoulina]

again i am a mom who tries her best and puts my kids needs ahead of my own. I said above that i would make sure my daughters received all the counseling they needed. Josh too. Right after I the holy hell out of him so that sex would be the last thing on his mind.

 

I think that's part of the problem. Sex is a normal thing to be on a young man's mind. The way ultra-religious people act like it's this horribly shameful and taboo thing (unless you're married, then by all means, bump and grind in front of your kids) is horribly repressive and not mentally healthy at all. 

[Fuzzysox]

The girls lives are forever changed. TLC should cancel the show, and get them real help. Whatever Gothard therapy they got (If any) was probably to keep sweet.

Gothard therapy to me is more confusing mental abuse for a girl just as damaging as the abuse it's self.

[alt0233]

This came up in a mom group I'm in, and one of the moms who is fundamentalist Christian, homeschooling, no birth control, 4 kids under 7 and pregnant with a 5th, (they do wear pants and drink, though, so there's that) said something that really struck me. She said that they have strict sexuality rules in their house, but that the most important thing for them is consent. So they talk about what is and isn't okay, but the most important thing was consent. I wonder if that word has ever been uttered in the Duggar household. I wonder if they ever said "don't do anything sex-like unless you're married, and especially not without consent" or if they just stuck with "don't do it." If masturbation is evil and a sin, did he realize that it was still less wrong than touching a woman without consent? After all, when you're married you can touch your wife but not yourself - I can see how a 14 year old might not undestand that if he'd never been taught that.

None of this excuses him - NOTHING excuses him, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how screwed up that family is.

[JoanArc]

http://defamer.gawker.com/mama-june-to-tlc-no-fair-you-support-duggar-molestati-1706257860

 

 

“I read that the Duggar family said, this happening with their son brought them closer to God and each other. So they’re saying it’s ok to have family touch time? Hell no,” Mama June told TMZ.

[humbleopinion]

Wonder if Derek will lose his accounting job at Walmart...hope not.

Derek/Jill/Izzy are victims of this mess.

However, Walmart dumping him could get the ball rolling on companies distancing themselves away from the Dugs/Dills/Sees.

[SomePity1066]

I can't imagine that the supporters could possibly outweigh the people, like me, who want this abomination off the air. To continue to support them would be like saying "I love how Godly they are, how modest ! They don't even hug to avoid any improper, un-Godly contact. They are to be admired for their devotion to the Lord and to each other. Well, uh...except for the boy who repeatedly fondled the breasts and vaginas of his own sisters and then his parents covered it up for more than a decade. Other than THAT they are a model Christian family..."

 

Michelle and JB can't run from this, nor can they hide. They swept a monster under the rug while their daughters suffered, and then were expected to keep sweet as if nothing had happened. Those poor girls may never get their day in court, but their parents and the smug bastard Josh are going to judged, and harshly so, be in in this world or the next. 

[bluebonnet]

Wonder if Derek will lose his accounting job at Walmart...hope not.

Derek/Jill/Izzy are victims of this mess.

However, Walmart dumping him could get the ball rolling on companies distancing themselves away from the Dugs/Dills/Sees.

Wal-Mart dropping any sponsorship they have with the show is one thing.  Wal-Mart firing an employee because his in-laws committed crimes is something completely different and even my Wal-Mart hating ass would have something to say about that.  No one should be fired for what someone else did. 

[OhioMom]

I have a hard time believing Anna's story of knowing about Josh two years before they married.  Although I don't remember how long they courted or were engaged before their wedding, the standard in that family seems to be three month courtships and three month engagements.  Did they court for two years before he proposed?  If not, there is no way any Duggar would share such sensitive information with another family before there was a commitment of some kind.  The only talk about anything sexual allowed in that family is JimBob bragging about how often he gets to hump Michelle and torturing them with his constant molestation of her in front of them.  

 

eta:  One other sexual thing allowed is JimBob's constant references to his married daughters' sex lives.  That, in itself, is perverted.

I thought the same thing, about Josh and Anna....were they dating ....er...courting for 2 years before they became engaged?  If not, that's hardly something they'd be discussing with a "potential" courting partner.

[Cherrio]

Does anyone know why Oprah did not pursue this back in 2006? She must have believed the email (or whatever it was) at that time stating that this sort of thing was going on in the Duggar family, because she immediately pulled the plug on them and sent them packing.

 

Oprah was a victim of sexual abuse herself when young. There's no more powerful person in television than Oprah Winfrey. Why did she not insist that this be investigated further? Something must have gone on behind the scenes - some kind of deal - and I'd love to know what it was.

I thought about this too. Oprah has the power and clout but didn't use it.  If I am not mistaken, her network is connected to TLC now.   I sadly think that decisions made ALL boil down to money, not the health and well being of children or adults.

 My belief is that these powers that be do not care and never will.    TLC is tops in child exploitation and I have always likened it to nothing more than an updated version of the old carnival side shows.

[Marigny]

Wonder how People Magazine will cover the story.

All those nauseating covers of the Duggars of late.

 

People will print whatever will move magazines. They are not beyond taking someone that was once praised and dragging him/her/them for filth. I feel a huge cover story coming. 

[Jellybeans]

I thought the same thing, about Josh and Anna....were they dating ....er...courting for 2 years before they became engaged?  If not, that's hardly something they'd be discussing with a "potential" courting partner.

Not sure how they could talk about anything private when they are chaperoned to death.

[graefin]

I'm not sure I understand what Oprah is supposed to have done. She received an anonymous email about alleged sexual crimes and turned it over to the proper authorities to handle, did she not?

[Rhetorica]

Oh my, it's going to get ugly:

http://m.eonline.com/news/659228/montell-williams-calls-josh-duggar-a-bigot-a-slimebag-and-a-hypocrite-over-molestation-allegations

[galax-arena]

According to TMZ's latest, Oprah's people forwarded the email tip they got to a child abuse hotline, and that's why the Arkansas police called Josh in for an interview. 

Edited May 22, 2015 by galax-arena

[OhioMom]

Chances are Anna was told something happened back when he was 14, but not the whole story. I have a hard time believing she'd still want to be with someone who openly admitted to molesting 5 family members. But now that everything is out in the open she's just going with the flow and saying that she knew the whole story, because in that culture what else can she do? She's probably secretly horrified but can't do much about it...so she's pulling herself up by the bootstraps and trying to ride it out.

I'm thinking Anna knew it all, but in keeping with the role of a potential Duggar wife, was told and believed, that either  God wanted her to marry him (to help him overcome, or "fix" him), or was told this by Jim Bob and Michelle.  The whole..."love the sinner, hate the sin" mantra.

   Which.....could explain, very nicely, all the snark and frostiness from Michelle to Anna that so many here have commented on.  She knew the secret, and could tell, at any time.

Edited May 22, 2015 by OhioMom

[Cherrio]

I'm enjoying the responses in this thread. The foundations have really been rocked. My random thoughts:

 

*TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. If someone seems off, they are. The spidey sense is very, very real. The Duggars (JB, M, Josh) weren't just quirky people. They were fucking monsters. People that love to tell you how moral they are, aren't.

 

*The Josiah arm incident needs investigating, now. As does his time at Alert.

 

*Michelle is a truly despicable mother. Honestly, I hate her more anyone of them at this point. She DID NOT protect her children, and did not raise them. I hope the media picks this up and drives it home. Michelle's ability to say the right thing, at the right time, needs to be DEMOLISHED by the media. I hope she has to sell the MOTY award to pay for more Xanax.

 

*Maybe they knew this was coming for a long time, and didn't really give a shit that Si was courting someone not 100% white, who loves the spotlight. They knew there'd be no spotlight by the time they wed.

 

*I'm convinced more incidents, either with Josh or someone else, went down. We're probably only getting 50% of the story - and likely the better 50%. Jim Bob talking about all the fond times he went into the Girls dorm sound extra perverted now.

 

*I'm still seeing NO WAY The Duggars or TLC can come back from this. The Kids/Victims only hope is a tell all.

 

*JB holds grudges. He won't give Josh a carlot. Josh is unhireable based on google searches. Josh better have enough to start his own tiny business. His only employer for the rest of his life will be himself. Maybe he can afford a pop-up camper, too, if he sells the Arkansas house.

Correct me if I am wrong, because I have been a very casual and not consistent watcher, but didn't Josh mock that camper he had to stay in at The Kellers?  I remember him acting like it was so beneath him.    Smug, he was very smug.    Funny how he might actually end up there now.

Has it been established that the request to destroy the police report was filed before this hit the news? Why would they have waited to do so until now instead of years ago? I sort of assumed that the request came after the shit hit the fan, but the former makes more sense in terms of how this all came out.

The Washington Post reported last night that they had asked for the report and had been told it had just been destroyed.

[barbedwire]

Oh my, it's going to get ugly:

http://m.eonline.com/news/659228/montell-williams-calls-josh-duggar-a-bigot-a-slimebag-and-a-hypocrite-over-molestation-allegations

 

Yikes.  But he put himself in the spotlight.  And FRC gave a job to a young man who had no education in the field and let him go at it.  As you sow so shall you.......

[TheFinalRose]

For everyone who is saying Anna should leave -- I get it, but what do you propose she does for money? With 3 kids and another on the way, parents who live in a trailer and likely aren't able to provide her lodging for her and her 3 kids for any extended period of time, and no higher education or work experience -- what is her option besides staying with Josh and saying the expected lines re how she's praying about it and forgives him??

 

 

And this, in a nutshell, is why this family has always made me scream.  I've never kept up with the show as it aired on TLC, instead saw most of it On Demand, but with each episode my blood pressure kept rising to the point where I just couldn't view the family as "entertainment." None of their children have been prepared to live in the real world, and I always looked at those girls and wondered how they would fare down the road ... maybe when they were thirty, or 38, or 45, their perfect fundy marriages or worlds would come crashing down and then WHAT WOULD THEY DO???? They have no education, will be stuck with many many many mouths to feed, and then what? Poverty, is what I'm seeing down the road.  Now add the fact that they've been subjected to the exploratory interests of a male and yeah, great job Boob.

 

But then, what do you expect? The parents are obsessed with sex. C.S. Lewis once made an interesting analogy about a society where food was considered as taboo as sex, and imagined peep shows where the curtain would draw back and there would be a steak and people would pay to see it. How odd would that be, he wondered.  I always think of that when I encounter anything Duggar.

[zenme]

There really is no justification for sexual molestation.... Yes his youth was pretty fucked up, but many people grow up in fucked up situations and don't become child molesters.

 

But at the same time, I'm confused. Because unless I missed something, there was no indication that he did it as a power play or to intentionally hurt anyone. I'm not saying it was right or trying to excuse it, but there's a big difference between a teenager inappropriately expressing sexual curiosities as a result of their repressed upbringing and someone molesting girls as a way to assert power and dominance.

 

A lot of boys are curious.  Yes.  Many do have outlets, and many don't and I always thought this intense repression could result in something bad for at least some of these kids.  One of the things that really stands out is the fact that Josh did this while the girls were sleeping, more than once, and even after he'd already been caught and reprimanded. 

[ChicksDigScars]

P25 and 26 of the report of a sister in the home who loves to cook and is in charge of meals (which sister is this?) She went on to say how this event brought the family closer to God- in my head I was hearing Jill. This sister claimed she was not touched inappropriately. She did state someone makes her feel uncomfortable.

 

Oh yeah. This has to be Jill. We know Jessa can't cook, since she broiled the Owner's Manual in the new stove after she got married.  Besides, Jessa does laundry. I've suspected that Jill was the one who didn't get violated, being that Josh refers to her as a tattle tale. 

 

Jana was/is the main wrangler of the Littles and Lost Boys, Jill was the cook, Jessa did laundry. Jinger and Joy were their back ups?

 

Looking at the girl's personalities, both Jana and Joy seem quiet, reserved, like they're hiding a secret that haunts them. Jinger and Jessa absolutely shoot Josh daggers with their eyes, and now we know why.  I always thought that the older girls seemed to resent Josh because he was always a fucking know-it-all who can't keep his mouth shut when the cameras are around. I always thought that it was a resentment because Josh was the unofficial spokesperson for the kids during the early shows. Guess not. It was almost a  "shut up, asshole" vibe. I think that they only hang out with the Smuggars because they do love Anna and the M kids. But as far as being close to Josh, there's always been a distance. No hugs. Just side eyes and wary looks. 

 

Now we also know why Jill and Jessa didn't have Josh in their wedding parties, and instead just made him the "emcee of the reception."  Jill actually had Anna in her wedding party, but Josh was not a groomsman.  JD and Joseph were, if memory serves. I remember thinking at the time that it was strange that they didn't have Josh stand up as a groomsman to partner with Anna. His bloated moon pie face is only in the family group photos. Not being a groomsman meant that he's not marring ALL wedding party photos, now. AND he's not on stage during the wedding videos. (Thank you for that, girls) Jessa included even less family than Jill did. How awkward would their special days have been if JB and Michelle had insisted that Josh be given more prominent roles?  It was almost like they made up a role for him to shut Michelle and JB up. Emcee of the Reception? WTF is that?

Edited May 22, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[VioletNevermind]

I can't help but wonder if Josh and Anna will stay in the DC area.  I grew up five minutes from their home and I now live about 30 minutes away.  This area is not cheap by any means.  Housing costs consume a tremendous amount of one's income.

 

God, I feel so sorry for Anna.  I'm not fully convinced that she knew about this before marrying him.  Maybe I just don't want to believe that someone could be so naive and short-sighted.  I blame her asshole father.  He was in cahoots with Jim Bob to get the two of them married ASAP and if he knew, he is officially the worst father alive.  Well, second worst.

Edited May 22, 2015 by SuzyLee

[lottiedottie]

Yes, there is this element to it.  I don't know exactly what happened; I wasn't there.  And I in no way condone a brother taking sexual advantage of his sisters.

 

But there is the possibility that we are looking at a situation in which Josh is a victim as well as a perpetrator.  If he was raised to believe that every sexual question, every bit of curiosity, every uncontrolled or inadvertent erection, and every temptation to self-pleasure was a ticket to hell, then it casts a slightly different light on things.  What was presumably done is still reprehensible, but it might have been done at the hands of a scared, confused, immature boy who felt that he was already damned for a normal human response.  And that would add to the tragedy.

I totally agree! I don't feel like this situation is a simple Josh=bad, girls=victims. They are all victims to some degree.

[neural-plasticity]

I'm glad to see that there are people out there who are offended and outraged by his actions, like Montel Williams. I wonder what some people would think who aren't following this story as close as we are if they realized some of those underaged girls were his own sisters, and they were forced to live with him as if nothing happened for years afterwards. I wonder if that would change some people's minds who are on the fence. I want to really stress that I'm not saying his actions were worse because he acted inappropriately towards his sisters, because any case of inappropriate touching is equally wrong, regardless who or what the person was touching. However, I think a lot of us were really shocked to hear it was his sisters because, as I stated previously, they were forced to live with their abuser for years afterwards (hopefully the other victim didn't have to see him unless she wanted to, even though in the report she kind of wrote off what happened), but we also have come to know these girls for years.

[barbedwire]

I did pray that he is still alive.  He could get through this with professional help as many others have mentioned.  A trained-in-this-area professional. I do worry that this will do him in.  His parents didn't prepare him for this when they put him in the spot light.

 

Anna could take what money they have from the show, leave Josh, invest it wisely and live frugally with the 3 / 4 kids in Florida near her parents.  They could babysit while she at least get a part time job after  #4 makes her appearance.  God help them!

[JenCarroll]

I actually feel sick over this.

Josh said in his statement that he and his victims received counseling. I hope to God so. As a mother i would be blaming myself that this happened to my daughters under my own roof. Nothing would get in my way to prevent those daughters from receiving All the counseling they needed. What a hypocrite receiving mother of the year award.

If those girls got counseling, it was either with those highly qualified marriage counselors JB and Mechelle, or it was the Gothard-approved, "figure out what you did to cause this" program. Either of those, IMO, would be worse than nothing.

Oh my, it's going to get ugly:

http://m.eonline.com/news/659228/montell-williams-calls-josh-duggar-a-bigot-a-slimebag-and-a-hypocrite-over-molestation-allegations

Wow. I just fell a little bit in love with Montel Williams. :-)

[Leigh3]

I'm not sure that the communal bedroom was the one in the new house. I think most of what we are talking about took place in the old house(s).

In the old house there weren't enough bedrooms so the kids pretty much slept where there so room. On a couch, a chair or on the floor. Now this explains the dorm rooms for the boys and girls. The house rules where the sexes were never to be the others room with exceptions such as the girls getting the dirty clothes or cleaning the boy's room. I think there was a strict rule against the boys ever being in the girl's room. Hmmm

[drivethroo]

The Washington DC area is one of the most expensive areas in the country to live in WITH a job.  Without one? Forget about it.  It will make more financial sense for them to pack up and move back to Arkansas than to stay in Washington DC, Northern VA or most parts of Maryland.

[MMLEsq]

Has it been established that the request to destroy the police report was filed before this hit the news? Why would they have waited to do so until now instead of years ago? I sort of assumed that the request came after the shit hit the fan, but the former makes more sense in terms of how this all came out.

I assumed the same as you -- that the In Touch article came out, then the request was made to destroy the police report.