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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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Christina87

Christina87

I agree; he must deeply regret never getting to be the lawyer he'd hoped to become. As a teenager, he probably didn't realize how painfully inadequate his education was. He could have achieved that goal if he'd gone to a regular school, which gives me a small amount of hope that he'll set his own children up to follow their dreams. I don't think he is as smart as he thinks he is, but he is confident and driven, and along with reasonable intelligence, could have probably made it.

If he'd had a normal upbringing, I could see Josh being the type of guy who had serious girlfriends in high school, but then decided to play the field throughout college and law school when he saw how much variety there was. Now, he would have a few years of lawyering under his belt, and may be starting to look for a real love, as I believe he would want a family (just not a million kids). 

In this fantasy world...

jana...quiet, sweet girl in high school, and current kindergarten teacher. too shy to date in school, but blossoming now. Still single because of high standards, but having a good time going on dates. 

JD...would have definitely pursued a trade. He seems to really like the idea of owning his own business, and staying close to home. I could see him either married or not. 

Jill...chatty girl in high school with lots of girl friends who giggle about boys, but aren't friends with any. Always wanted to do nursing, and graduated with a degree in that. I could see her meeting Derick in college and wanting to get married and have a baby right after graduation, but stay in the workforce because of her passion for nursing.

Jessa...high school cheerleader who gets all the guys, college sorority president, and current MBA student. Not even considering marriage for a long, long time. Considers herself and Josh the success stories of the family, and probably has a close relationship with him.

Jinger...followed in Jessa's shadow during high school, and currently a photography student at a small, not very prestigious college. 

The rest probably wouldn't exist if their family was normal. ;-)

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

True. He's pretty much universally reviled. I can lay the resonsibilty abuse incidents at his parents' fee. Did I post the Boob quote from the Megyn Kelly thread here the other day? If not, he said that in talking to fellow members of his (home) church, he discovered what Smuggar did was "common," and he didn't think much of it. 

Bastard.

As for Joshley Madison and the other screwing around, that's all on him. I can't excuse that behavior at all. It's apparent to me that he isn't happy: rapid weight gain is never a good sign. Same goes for Anna. I think she's all about the bravado, thinking God will make it all better if she prays hard enough. 

FSM help them if they bring more children into this dysfunction 

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Marigold

Marigold

Josh is painted into a corner at the moment.  Jim Bob did some painting and so did Josh.

I think Josh and Anna are MISERABLE and they both are trapped, for different reasons.  One day, they will just walk out.  Either together or separately. It's gonna take time though. 

I hope that Josh makes sure that the kids gets the education that he wanted and couldn't have. 

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kaleidoscope

kaleidoscope

I'm wondering if this would not be the perfect time for Josh to continue his education if he REALLY wants to be a lawyer.  He could begin at a community college, even doing most classes on line.  With family right there to help with the kids, he would be out of the limelight and heading in a direction that would fulfill a dream.  It would take motivation and family support, but I would think JB would got nuts to have "his" very own lawyer!

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Aja

Aja

23 minutes ago, kaleidoscope said:

I'm wondering if this would not be the perfect time for Josh to continue his education if he REALLY wants to be a lawyer.  He could begin at a community college, even doing most classes on line.  With family right there to help with the kids, he would be out of the limelight and heading in a direction that would fulfill a dream.  It would take motivation and family support, but I would think JB would got nuts to have "his" very own lawyer!

It would also take an IQ above 80.

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RazzleberryPie

RazzleberryPie

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I don't feel a bit sorry for Josh. He is a predator and his only remorse is he was caught. If it hadn't been his sisters, had he had access to other girls (some say he did), it would've been them. He would've been the frat guy, football player, or Congressman who thought he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted, because women are objects and he is entitled and privileged. As long as he doesn't get caught, he'd keep going, and would probably only get a 'boys will be boys' slap on the wrist. 

Millions of people grow up in homes where porn, premarital sex, etc is taboo for teens. Honestly, for all you youngins and those who didn't grown up in religiously conservative households, porn was not common until the Internet made it easily accessible 10-15 years ago. Most of us did not grow up thinking porn was normal, everybody does it, or no big deal. You wouldn't even think of owning videos or having magazines, etc. in good Christian homes with children. Males have had the same hormones and sexual urges since God made Adam. Most people don't molest their siblings.

Hookers and porn after being married are disgusting and disrespectful to his wife, based upon his vows of faithfulness, love, respect. But he was an adult and only had himself to blame. 

The stuff he did when he was a kid, not common, not normal, not excused because he was curious or didn't have access to porn or teen sex. He didn't control himself because he didn't have to. He didn't think he'd get caught and if he didn't get caught, there was a thrill and sense of power. Same as teens who shoplift or speed, except his thrill rides involved vulnerable humans. 

I do blame his parents for trying to minimalize it to the girls, but maybe they were trying to protect them and not have them scarred for life. I also blame them for telling everyone it was common and no big deal, which I think was letting josh of the hook to preserve the upcoming brand. 

Anyway.......I don't blame God, the Bible, lack of porn, hormones, etc. I blame Josh as being another smug, entitled, predatory white male who thought he was above any social norms and rules, and had no regard for anyone but himself. 

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lianau

lianau

23 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I agree; he must deeply regret never getting to be the lawyer he'd hoped to become. As a teenager, he probably didn't realize how painfully inadequate his education was. He could have achieved that goal if he'd gone to a regular school, which gives me a small amount of hope that he'll set his own children up to follow their dreams. 

 

Not possible as long as he's depending on his father for everything. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I don't feel sorry for Josh either, but I do think his environment contributed to his behaviors. Most brothers don't touch their sisters. Most parents don't constantly expose their kids to their reproductive activities. Most parents don’t basically repeatedly say nana nana poo poo, we get to kiss, touch and have sex and you don’t.

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Micks Picks

Micks Picks

The thing is, JimBob took him to his job with him in the state legislature and had Smuggs work on his campaign for US senator, also probably to help with the unfortunate Holt guy.  Smugger may have internalized this to be kind of a reward for his bad behavior at home, rather than a way for Boob to get him away from the house so he would molest less often.  He was only a kid and could easily misinterpret this as a reward.  At any rate, it gave him ideas of what other power jobs were like.  It contributed to his smugness.  I don't think it was necessary above to describe him as a predatory White male, he was just a predatory male, we already know what color his is.  Newspapers around here have not described suspects by color or race for at least 15 years.

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RazzleberryPie

RazzleberryPie

I 100% agree that josh wanting to be a lawyer was more about power, prestige, elitism, etc. than upholding or defending the law. 

I called him a predatory white male (and probably should've additionally called him a middle class elitist predatory white male, maybe in his mind an upper middle class), because he fits that stereotypical profile of the entitled WASPY frat boy who thinks he can do vile things to those less empowered to them (women, minorities, other faiths or nationalities, people with less money or education, etc.), and it is his God given right. 

I'm white. My male family members are white. My husband is white (until he steps outside, then Sicilian tan lol). I don't want to sound like Lumping all white men or all Christian men, etc as predators. They come in all genders, shapes, sizes, colors, etc. Josh just fits that one mold to perfection.

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Marigold

Marigold

I'm a mix of both.

On one hand, Josh is a mess because of his fucked up family.  However, Josh is the only one that has been involved in this type of behavior. To our knowledge, JD and the other brothers are all clean.  They all had the same family so that makes Josh the sicko all alone. Maybe Josh was born with mental problems? Maybe Josh would've been the same had he been raised in another home?  I don't know.  I do know that Josh got no help for any of his issues when he was a teen and that's a sad thing.  

On the other hand, Josh made horrible, horrible choices as a married adult. There is no excuse for that. None. 

I really hope that Josh is getting REAL counseling and not announcing that publicly.  Anna said church counseling and I'm sure that's true.  Maybe Josh has realized he is one fucked up bastard and is getting intense therapy?  My guess is that he is not but you always hope that there is a shred of sanity...maybe...

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Arwen Evenstar

Arwen Evenstar

On 12/9/2016 at 9:09 PM, DangerousMinds said:

IMO the only person that should be concerned about his cheating is Anna.

At the end of the day, that's really the heart of the matter.  We all know what we would do if our spouse/partner cheated on us, but we can't decide for someone else.  As repulsive as Smuggar is to all of us, maybe Anna likes it doughy and pasty.

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lianau

lianau

On 10.12.2016 at 2:34 AM, Marigold said:

I'm a mix of both.

On one hand, Josh is a mess because of his fucked up family.  However, Josh is the only one that has been involved in this type of behavior. To our knowledge, JD and the other brothers are all clean.  They all had the same family so that makes Josh the sicko all alone. Maybe Josh was born with mental problems? Maybe Josh would've been the same had he been raised in another home?  I don't know.  I do know that Josh got no help for any of his issues when he was a teen and that's a sad thing.  

On the other hand, Josh made horrible, horrible choices as a married adult. There is no excuse for that. None. 

I really hope that Josh is getting REAL counseling and not announcing that publicly.  Anna said church counseling and I'm sure that's true.  Maybe Josh has realized he is one fucked up bastard and is getting intense therapy?  My guess is that he is not but you always hope that there is a shred of sanity...maybe...

But Josh is Josh and JD is JD .  I like to call Josh, Jana and JD the conversion kids , the lab rats  for  JB and Michelle's  new found fundie lifestyle and parenting techniques. The first Duggar special was done in 2004 (the next was in 2006)  , by then  Josh was 16 and Jana and JD 14.  Jill , Jessa and Jinger preteen or just teenaged. The next boys were 8 and 9 . Too  much Duggardom and shielded from outside influences resulted in Josh acting out and Jana and JD closing up shop . And the rest of the siblings got saved by TLC in a way  but it was too late for the oldest 3 . 

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yogi2014L

yogi2014L

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know or care about that one way or another, actually. I'm just looking for retribution in all ways possible. lol

On the other hand, I don't necessarily have a lot of confidence in the slipping away. He's held them damn tight for decades and not a single one has slipped. If anything, I think his grip is greatly loosening. I think he's old and worn out and lacks some of the resources he once had that made it easier for him and more desirable for him to hold on madly. So I can't see him really being capable of (or maybe even so keenly interested in) tightening any more. Now, I'll bet, he just wants money, one way or another. .... Anyway, my point being -- not a single damned one of his kids slipped away when he was holding on tightly. So I'm not sure the logic of that holds. .... From here on out, I expect they will gradually slip away. But I think it'll be more because the parental hold is slipping and -- especially -- the gravy train will be slowly slowly slowly slowing down. ... Of course, where they'll all go with zero education, no experience of the world, little intelligence or gumption and adanced agoraphobia is another question.

They must be getting really desperate now.

I would say Josh def slipped!!!

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
10 hours ago, yogi2014L said:

I would say Josh def slipped!!!

Wow. I wouldn't say so at all. He was crying in the driveway because he was going to move to DC without Mommy and Daddy. And I don;t know that he even likes them very much. And he's a sex-obsessed hypocritical self-righteous endless-baby-spurting fundie slobberer just like Daddy. And now he lives in Daddy's pocket, giving every indication he may live there for the rest of his life. And hides his face behind babies on command when Daddy doesn't want him in the phote-toe. Can't imagine how anyone could think that he'd slipped the Duggar leash. He's a sickening weakling I-gotta-believe-in-Gothard-or-I-might-go-to-hell cling-to-Daddy Duggar all the way.

Slipping the leash, to me, would be making decisions on his own and making his own life. Whether that's taking his kids and wife, working for a mowing company, joining a 12-step group or getting some real counseling by an educated person, and going to college nights to get that law degree. Or leaving his family and going to a city to pick up more than one hooker and learn to drink something other than big sodas (like Daddy, who steals 'em). All Josh has ever done is try and largely fail to sneak a little -- and I do mean little -- sex on the side. That's not slipping any leashes or seriously rebelling, as far as I can see. Especially considering he comes from one of the most sex-obsessed families on the planet.

Having the same little itch every other human has and cheating a bit in a largely vain attempt to scratch it does not a rebel against an empire make.

Edited by Churchhoney
one too many hyphens
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yogi2014L

yogi2014L

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Wow. I wouldn't say so at all. He was crying in the driveway because he was going to move to DC without Mommy and Daddy. And I don;t know that he even likes them very much. And he's a sex-obsessed hypocritical self-righteous endless-baby-spurting fundie slobberer just like Daddy. And now he lives in Daddy's pocket, giving every indication he may live there for the rest of his life. And hides his face behind babies on command when Daddy doesn't want him in the phote-toe. Can't imagine how anyone could think that he'd slipped the Duggar leash. He's a sickening weakling I-gotta-believe-in-Gothard-or-I-might-go-to-hell cling-to-Daddy Duggar all the way.

Slipping the leash, to me, would be making decisions on his own and making his own life. Whether that's taking his kids and wife, working for a mowing company, joining a 12-step group or getting some real counseling by an educated person, and going to college nights to get that law degree. Or leaving his family and going to a city to pick up more than one hooker and learn to drink something other than big sodas (like Daddy, who steals 'em). All Josh has ever done is try and largely fail to sneak a little -- and I do mean little -- sex on the side. That's not slipping any leashes or seriously rebelling, as far as I can see. Especially considering he comes from one of the most sex-obsessed families on the planet.

Having the same little itch every other human has and cheating a bit in a largely vain attempt to scratch it does not a rebel against an empire make.

He is back in the grasp now but I def think his double life in DC was slippage. Maybe not a full on rebellion, but wouldn't getting a hooker qualify as slipping? That is totally defying everything he was brought up to believe, even if it was only for a year or two. Even the porn thing as a teen was slipping. Compare Josh to Jana. Jana hasn't left the house in 26 years( figuratively speaking). She hasn't slipped. I think Josh qualifies as a kid who didn't toe the line and wasn't 100% controlled all the time ( even if he is now )

This is also just my opinion- but I totally believe that Josh is ONLY doing the Gothard song and dance because $$$$$$.  If Boob didn't have the means to support him, Anna and the Mkids, I think there would be the first Duggar divorce  and Josh would disappear into the night lol. 

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)
1 hour ago, yogi2014L said:

He is back in the grasp now but I def think his double life in DC was slippage. Maybe not a full on rebellion, but wouldn't getting a hooker qualify as slipping? That is totally defying everything he was brought up to believe, even if it was only for a year or two. Even the porn thing as a teen was slipping. Compare Josh to Jana. Jana hasn't left the house in 26 years( figuratively speaking). She hasn't slipped. I think Josh qualifies as a kid who didn't toe the line and wasn't 100% controlled all the time ( even if he is now )

This is also just my opinion- but I totally believe that Josh is ONLY doing the Gothard song and dance because $$$$$$.  If Boob didn't have the means to support him, Anna and the Mkids, I think there would be the first Duggar divorce  and Josh would disappear into the night lol. 

Well, since this conversation started with my hope that one of the girls breaks a light sabre and reams Jim Bob with it, I'm defining slipping as actual rebellion, not just a little unpermitted genital rubbing in response to a biological imperative!  So we're mainly just talking in different terms, I think.

To me, while I'd say that Josh has probably come closest to slipping the leash, on my definition he certainly hasn't actually slipped it.

Given what I'm thinking of here, I don't see him as any kind of serious rebel against Jim Bob and Michelle at all, Ever. And that's what I'm desperately waiting for in this family! After all, once they'd looked the other way about his molestation of little girls in the family he was the big fat smiling arrogant happy face of the family all over the tv. And he wept in the damn driveway because he was leaving them to go a few states away! And in DC -- Yeah, he tried to get his itch scratched. But I'm looking for a rebel, not a compulsive masturbator, so his sex-seeking doesn't qualify for me, since it was accompanied by constant arrogant speeches in favor of Gothardlike shit, just like Daddy, and a continued popping out of Duggar babies, just like Daddy.

As so often, of course, I'm biased in this by my own experience. I'm the only rebel in my family because I'm the only one who left and actually got different principles and acted on them. If you stayed and just did little crappy things on the sly that went against the rules -- you stayed just as wholly owned as you'd ever been, even if you deluded yourself into thinking that you weren't. That's what I saw, at any rate.

I do definitely agree with you that Josh doesn't "believe" the Gothard stuff and is only in it because these "beliefs" are what have got him and the family all their money and fame -- and because it allows him to hang on to Jizm Bob's tit. But I don't think Jizm Bob actually "believes" it either, in any adult sense.

I doubt Jizm Bob's given two seconds of thought, ever, to the actual theology or ethics or truth of his "faith." In my opinion, he just glommed onto Gothard because it promised good things for his ego. And he remains glommed on because it continues to feed his ego. The kids don't have a shot at believing in Gothard for that reason, since in the Gothard universe only the patriarch, and to a small extent his woman, gets ego feeding.

I wouldn't be surprised if, ultimately, Josh isn't the first one out the door, as you're predicting. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't, either, though. Because honestly I just think he's a massive coward and that that's his main characteristics. And when the family money runs dry, I can't decide whether I think his cowardice would be more likely to see him run or see him cling. Could go either way.

Edited by Churchhoney
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yogi2014L

yogi2014L

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, since this conversation started with my hope that one of the girls breaks a light sabre and reams Jim Bob with it, I'm defining slipping as actual rebellion, not just a little unpermitted genital rubbing in response to a biological imperative!  So we're mainly just talking in different terms, I think.

To me, while I'd say that Josh has probably come closest to slipping the leash, on my definition he certainly hasn't actually slipped it.

Given what I'm thinking of here, I don't see him as any kind of serious rebel against Jim Bob and Michelle at all, Ever. And that's what I'm desperately waiting for in this family! After all, once they'd looked the other way about his molestation of little girls in the family he was the big fat smiling arrogant happy face of the family all over the tv. And he wept in the damn driveway because he was leaving them to go a few states away! And in DC -- Yeah, he tried to get his itch scratched. But I'm looking for a rebel, not a compulsive masturbator, so his sex-seeking doesn't qualify for me, since it was accompanied by constant arrogant speeches in favor of Gothardlike shit, just like Daddy, and a continued popping out of Duggar babies, just like Daddy.

As so often, of course, I'm biased in this by my own experience. I'm the only rebel in my family because I'm the only one who left and actually got different principles and acted on them. If you stayed and just did little crappy things on the sly that went against the rules -- you stayed just as wholly owned as you'd ever been, even if you deluded yourself into thinking that you weren't. That's what I saw, at any rate.

I do definitely agree with you that Josh doesn't "believe" the Gothard stuff and is only in it because these "beliefs" are what have got him and the family all their money and fame -- and because it allows him to hang on to Jizm Bob's tit. But I don't think Jizm Bob actually "believes" it either, in any adult sense.

I doubt Jizm Bob's given two seconds of thought, ever, to the actual theology or ethics or truth of his "faith." In my opinion, he just glommed onto Gothard because it promised good things for his ego. And he remains glommed on because it continues to feed his ego. The kids don't have a shot at believing in Gothard for that reason, since in the Gothard universe only the patriarch, and to a small extent his woman, gets ego feeding.

I wouldn't be surprised if, ultimately, Josh isn't the first one out the door, as you're predicting. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't, either, though. Because honestly I just think he's a massive coward and that that's his main characteristics. And when the family money runs dry, I can't decide whether I think his cowardice would be more likely to see him run or see him cling. Could go either way.

Ah ok I totally see where you are coming from :-) and yeah, I agree with you on all of the above- especially that Josh is a huge coward which is why he has tolerated any of the scandal fallout for so long

I also find that you having personal experience makes your opinions super interesting and adds a good perspective for me, so thank you <3~

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Zahdii

Zahdii

I, too, agree with both scenarios.  Josh slipped, but was hoping to maintain his Gothard roll and keep slipping away as long as he could.  We've all seen it many times with conservative Christians and politicians.  But as Churchhoney said, as soon as the truth came out, Josh rushed back into the fold and has been hiding there ever since.  It remains to be seen if he'll eventually give up the family and cult protection and go off on his own.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

I'm not sure Josh isn't still full on Gothard. His slip/non slip was done with the same arrogant mindset the Gothard men promote. Very much like politicians and celebrities, who surround themselves with yes-men and hanger-on-ers, only the Gothard sect use woman to stroke their egos and producing children to measure their success.

I believe a good part of Josh believes he succumbed to the devil and the evil secular world, and if he reborns again he'll be a better man. I also believe that a teensy eensy part of him knows this isn't true, but he'll stomp that down because it's too scary and too painful for him to accept.

I also think many ultra conservative men use their belief as a stay-out-of-hell card and that God will understand and forgive them easier because they are the TRUE believers.

 

(I think I might have set a record for using the word believe, or variation of, the most in one post. Should have accessed a thesaurus)

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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

I don't see Anna unless she's the one half hidden with all of those MEN way in the back, but that girl's either wearing a short skirt with tights or leggings. The only other two girls in the pic are either wearing pants or definitely NOT Anna (the one in the long sweater). 

I'm glad they're keeping up their Pray In the New Year ritual. I just looked for pics on IG before I came here and didn't see anything on any of the Duggar accounts (save Jessa, since I can't see hers). 

But ouch! Unattended crashed Meredith! 

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SpaghettiTuesdays

SpaghettiTuesdays

(edited)

I don't think that's Anna. The stature, hair color, and clothing style are very different. That looks like a young woman, maybe teenager still, with a little belly chub, nothing more. (To me, at least.)

I think Couch Baby is Davia. She looks too old and too much hair (even with hairbands) to be Meredith. Also, I know Davia by her head shape. It has fascinated me since she was a baby. (That's not too weird, is it???) Maybe she's a Dominguez baby? (Edyn? Elly?) I think that looks like Sierra in the corner. [Nevermind - that's not Sierra. But definitely could be a Dominguez little.]

Edited by SpaghettiTuesdays
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laurakaye

laurakaye

(edited)
On 12/31/2016 at 11:35 PM, Kokapetl said:

I think I see Aaaanna, so I'll post this here:

15732120_956563877810595_440361994534513

Who's the guy in the hat and bright blue coat?  He seems to be thinking about using the "Peace on Earth" door as an escape.

The unattended toddler on the ottoman makes my blood boil.  Her parents, whoever they are, are clearly not in range.  You don't just drop your toddler on a piece of random furniture and leave her by herself.  No one in that picture is watching her.  The closest people to her would be Heavy D and Muffin, and you know ain't either one of them paying attention to someone else's kid.

Edited by laurakaye
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