Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Mrsjumbo]

Had to laugh about "she rebelled & left home when she became an adult". Isn't that what normal people do? And too bad the Duggar kids can't leave unless they are married.

[Lemur]

Had to laugh about "she rebelled & left home when she became an adult". Isn't that what normal people do? And too bad the Duggar kids can't leave unless they are married.

 

Yeah, but these people are highly, highly abnormal.  And for them, this far surpasses whatever the equivalent of dying one's hair blue would be.  This is the equivalent of hoping on the circus train at 15 to go live among the carnie folk. 

[kokapetl]

Sounds like a speculative piece of writing based on what's already public. We know there's an anonymous 5th victim who doesn't appear to want to be publicly identified. The article wants us to think it's fresh news, but Michelle and JimBob calling her parents, and her parents having any authority to act on her behalf, only makes sense if the phone call happened back when all involved were underage.

[JoanArc]

This is a 6th victim.#5 was or is considering legal action.

[Wellfleet]

Some fundies are just crazier than others.

 

And cheaper - Boob is without a doubt the absolute CHEAPEST SOB in the universe. This factors in to everything they do, or don't do...

[sometimesy]

This is a 6th victim.#5 was or is considering legal action.

What?! Wow.

 

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

 

Edited April 22, 2016 by sometimesy

[Missy Vixen]

And cheaper - Boob is without a doubt the absolute CHEAPEST SOB in the universe. This factors in to everything they do, or don't do...

One can only hope that Jim Boob discovers how expensive it can get.

 

If this is true, mainstream media will pick up on it with the quickness. And it's going to ruin Nancy's weekend!

[sometimesy]

One can only hope that Jim Boob discovers how expensive it can get.

 

If this is true, mainstream media will pick up on it with the quickness. And it's going to ruin Nancy's weekend!

Re the bolded. Has this been out for a few days? Makes me wonder if there is really nothing to it. 

[kokapetl]

What?! Wow.

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. Buddha

It was in tabloids at least 6-9 months ago, but nothing materialized. This sounds like a rehash, plus I don't understand how the parents of a 28 year woman who left home a decade ago can be promising JimBob and Michelle anything on her behalf.

[Sew Sumi]

It was in tabloids at least 6-9 months ago, but nothing materialized. This sounds like a rehash, plus I don't understand how the parents of a 28 year woman who left home a decade ago can be promising JimBob and Michelle anything on her behalf.

I said as much above. This would have to have been dealt with when the parties were still minors for any agreement between the parents (assuming it was even written) to be legally binding today.

That said, you KNOW that Boob attempted damage control behind the scenes after Joshgate I broke. If it was the Holts, as is widely speculated based on pretty solid evidence, that could be interesting. The families are barely cordial these days, and the presumed victim is married with two kids.

[louannems]

Do you all really think Joshua molested the Holt girl? Or was it most likely a mutual boyfriend/girlfriend thing that both sets of Gothard parents wanted broken up because courtship?

[Micks Picks]

I agree this sounds like a rehash.  An exaggerated rehash.  But there was word last summer that the fifth girl was filing some civil or criminal action.  That story just went away too.  Then we were hit with Joshleygate, and that wasn't the same thing at all.  Don't know if the 5th victim just went away or what.

[Vaysh]

Do you all really think Joshua molested the Holt girl? Or was it most likely a mutual boyfriend/girlfriend thing that both sets of Gothard parents wanted broken up because courtship?

The original rumour from way back when was about touching while the girl was asleep which would fit Josh's MO to a tee, but who knows. Could just be girl/boyfriend stuff that got mixed up with the molestation rumours.

[kokapetl]

Do you all really think Joshua molested the Holt girl? Or was it most likely a mutual boyfriend/girlfriend thing that both sets of Gothard parents wanted broken up because courtship?

I don't know who the fifth victim. She's probably a fellow traveller in the whole insanity. I can't really speculate much, but in the redacted documents, Josh actions caused redacted to do redacted, and as result, redacted cancelled redacted. Edited April 23, 2016 by Kokapetl

[becca3891]

Do you all really think Joshua molested the Holt girl? Or was it most likely a mutual boyfriend/girlfriend thing that both sets of Gothard parents wanted broken up because courtship?

The rumor that Josh molested a Holt girl in her sleep was around years before last year's news, so it has real credibility with me. I always found the "sin in the camp" story interesting and believable, and even more so now. We also know the fifth victim was a family friend who had been babysitting and was asleep on the couch -- that much is in the police report.

[GeeGolly]

I will no longer click on these tabloid reports. If a survivor comes forward to share her story I will read it, until then, no clicks from me.

[BitterApple]

The rumor that Josh molested a Holt girl in her sleep was around years before last year's news, so it has real credibility with me. I always found the "sin in the camp" story interesting and believable, and even more so now. We also know the fifth victim was a family friend who had been babysitting and was asleep on the couch -- that much is in the police report.

I agree. It would be one hell of a coincidence for the M.O.'s to match up like that. Especially considering the "sin in the camp" rumors came long before the molestation scandal was made public.

If it is true, I'm surprised JimBob didn't ship Josh off after that, given the damage it did to his political career. I wonder if he wanted to, but Michelle wouldn't allow it. Josh does seem to be her golden boy.

[Mrsjumbo]

Is Famy one of the victims?

[Almost 3000]

Is Famy one of the victims?

She says no, or maybe her husband posted it right after everything went down. I still think it may have been her. She sometimes seems rather aggressive with Smugs like the cake in his at the wedding.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Ironic how Josh chose the letter M as his theme for naming his kids and how two words that brought him down "molestation" and "Madison" also begin with M.

It must really suck to be Josh right now....if he reads half of what people are saying about him, he must be mortified. When I read about the latest scandal, I wasn't sure if there was a sixth victim or if they were rehashing #5. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more victims though.

One thing that troubles me is that I'm wondering if Josh's shaming and poor public perception would have been as extensive and hostile had the Duggars been less sanctimonious. For me personally anyway, most of my disgust is with the insidious teachings of this cult and the way women and victims are collectively treated, rather than his transgressions.

That said, I'm not defending him in any way. Sister groping and porn addiction and predatory behavior are behaviors that are antisocial at best and are not regarded by anyone with any sense as normal behavior. The cult they belong to sweeps it under the rug, stressing forgiveness over prosecution., and blames the victim for the males' failings. The perps don't often receive any real psychological help. Send your son to ALERT if you catch him masturbating...but give him a pass for molesting his sisters after he's "cured" by hard labor...and Jeebus jail Lock the girls in their room, blame them for defrauding their brother....play law enforcement past the statute of limitations....

Just seems this cult is so repressive that it only perpetuates this sort of behavior by discouraging any sniff of what we all regard as normal developmental behavior and natural curiosity about bodies that those who have had a normal, healthy upbringing take for granted. People who post on some of the articles regarding the Duggars seem to have far more hostility towards the cult and Bbob and Michelle than towards Josh.

[OpieTaylor]

Just saw an article - "No Anonymity for Plaintiffs Suing Ashley Madison Over Hack, Judge Rules" - that says "Plaintiffs suing Ashley Madison, a popular online dating service, over a computer hacking attack that stole the personal data of millions of users will have to be publicly identified to proceed with the case, a federal judge ruled."

 

I wonder if Josh (and Jim Boob) have been thinking about suing Ashley Madison to at least get some money out of the whole debacle. And if so, will they still sue, since Josh's name will be made public if he does?

[3girlsforus]

Just saw an article - "No Anonymity for Plaintiffs Suing Ashley Madison Over Hack, Judge Rules" - that says "Plaintiffs suing Ashley Madison, a popular online dating service, over a computer hacking attack that stole the personal data of millions of users will have to be publicly identified to proceed with the case, a federal judge ruled."

 

I wonder if Josh (and Jim Boob) have been thinking about suing Ashley Madison to at least get some money out of the whole debacle. And if so, will they still sue, since Josh's name will be made public if he does?

 

Isn't Josh's name already public in relation to the Ashley Madison stuff?

[Higgins]

But...but, because Jesus!

I doubt this bunch would consult anyone who could objectively evaluate whether the marriage is worth saving because, in their world, ending a a marriage is not even a concept. Marriage IS. And this duo is extra double-secret covenant married. There is no save the marriage. There is just make headship happy and all troubles will vanish. So, Jesus. Pray harder.

I hate being this cynical. I really do despair of voluntarily undereducated and emotionally stunted people signing up for what is essentially a life of bondage. It's not like they are (as far as we know) out in the world actively helping others like, say Jimmy Carter (who is of course an evil liberal). But boy, they sure can tap about the Lord without bothering to emulate him.

Well, all right, Anna is busy raising kids. But let's see Smug display some genuinely Christian actions. I'll wait right here.

How do you objectively evaluate the worth of saving someone else's marriage? Just wondering.

[Tabbygirl521]

How do you objectively evaluate the worth of saving someone else's marriage? Just wondering.

For me, it would involve evaluating if I (and children, if there were any) were better off with or without my spouse, probably with the help of a qualified counselor of some sort.

I worded my previous post badly. I meant that Anna et al would likely never consult with anyone who could help them make such an evaluation.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Tabbygirl521

[JoanArc]

 

How do you objectively evaluate the worth of saving someone else's marriage? Just wondering.

I'd say when both partners have serious, undressed mental health issues.

[Higgins]

I am actually in the field and I believe that your opinion is subjective, not objective.

[Tabbygirl521]

I am actually in the field and I believe that your opinion is subjective, not objective.

Thank you for correcting me.

[OpieTaylor]

Isn't Josh's name already public in relation to the Ashley Madison stuff?

Yes, I was just wondering if they'd be OK with revealing that they would be suing for the privacy breach. (mind you, I have no idea if Josh intends to sue or not)  

[becca3891]

She says no, or maybe her husband posted it right after everything went down. I still think it may have been her. She sometimes seems rather aggressive with Smugs like the cake in his at the wedding.

I really don't think so. The police document definitely said it was a family friend, and that lines up perfectly with the Holt rumors. The Duggars have always been careful to keep Amy at a distance, and that I'm sure includes avoiding ever having her sleep over. The irony about that is that they probably considered HER the defrauding threat -- that being an evil, modern young woman, she would try to defraud her innocent cousins.

[Albanyguy]

Also, I would imagine that even when they were children, Josh was probably a little intimidated by Amy. She wasn't being "trained up" to be "sweet" and deferential to boys/men. Predators (including teenage ones) choose victims who seem vulnerable and unlikely to get them in trouble. If Josh tried anything with Amy, she'd probably have knocked his block off.

[Lemur]

Just saw an article - "No Anonymity for Plaintiffs Suing Ashley Madison Over Hack, Judge Rules" - that says "Plaintiffs suing Ashley Madison, a popular online dating service, over a computer hacking attack that stole the personal data of millions of users will have to be publicly identified to proceed with the case, a federal judge ruled."

 

I wonder if Josh (and Jim Boob) have been thinking about suing Ashley Madison to at least get some money out of the whole debacle. And if so, will they still sue, since Josh's name will be made public if he does?

 

I have zero doubt in my mind that they are going to sue the ever loving crap out of AM.  I would love to read their argument regarding "lost earnings" considering how badly damaged Josh's reputation was at that point.

[sometimesy]

Do you suppose JB forced the Jessa show (Jill who?) to include Anna, so they could get some income? She just sort of pops up every so often to look forlorn about walking through crap, or pushing the marriage-baby agenda. Or worse, would JB be able to convince these idiots to let him handle all the money through some lame account/business/company he set up (they can set up their own accounts but I'm sure they don't think beyond what JB says), and then distribute the funds to support Josh and Anna? 

I have zero doubt in my mind that they are going to sue the ever loving crap out of AM.  I would love to read their argument regarding "lost earnings" considering how badly damaged Josh's reputation was at that point.

Everything would be in the news again..every molestation story rehashed..every single thing about the Gothard cult..the microscope would be enhanced again... dam right they sue! There is no such thing as bad publicity, Counting on season XXX :)

[3girlsforus]

Do you suppose JB forced the Jessa show (Jill who?) to include Anna, so they could get some income? She just sort of pops up every so often to look forlorn about walking through crap, or pushing the marriage-baby agenda. Or worse, would JB be able to convince these idiots to let him handle all the money through some lame account/business/company he set up (they can set up their own accounts but I'm sure they don't think beyond what JB says), and then distribute the funds to support Josh and Anna? 

 

Yes to all of this. If JB can figure out a way to control and profit, he will do it. Anna is completely at his mercy and I'm sure he descended upon her with all kinds of "ways he could help" when Josh was sent away. She was vulnerable and in shock so I'm sure he took advantage of that to secure his control even more.

[yogi2014L]

Yes to all of this. If JB can figure out a way to control and profit, he will do it. Anna is completely at his mercy and I'm sure he descended upon her with all kinds of "ways he could help" when Josh was sent away. She was vulnerable and in shock so I'm sure he took advantage of that to secure his control even more.

Yup I am sure Boob is forcing/coercing/heavily suggesting Anna does the show. I think she has been.   He has to know that a lot of viewers tune into see her. 

 

And in regards to the lawsuit for AM...How is AM responsible for the hack? I don't know anything about lawsuits but I feel like getting exposed as a cheater on AM falls under ' play stupid games win stupid prizes' Unless there was personal info stolen like credit cards numbers ect? I can't remember if that happened. What could they actually sue for? I dont think lost earning would apply because Josh ruined his own reputation, he signed himself up!

Edited April 25, 2016 by yogi2014L

[BitterApple]

I don't know anything about lawsuits but I feel like getting exposed as a cheater on AM falls under ' play stupid games win stupid prizes'

That's how I look at it. I'm not shedding any tears because a bunch of people who deliberately hurt and disrespected their spouses got caught and publicly exposed.

Smuggar is an absolute fool if he considers legal action. His rep is so far down the gutter I can't imagine he'd want to bring about further scrutiny. Especially if there are other skeletons in the closet waiting to come tumbling out.

Edited April 25, 2016 by BitterApple

[Wellfleet]

That's how I look at it. I'm not shedding any tears because a bunch of people who deliberately hurt and disrespected their spouses got caught and publicly exposed.

Smuggar is an absolute fool if he considers any legal action against the site. His rep is already so far down in the gutter I can't imagine he'd want to bring about any further scrutiny. Especially if there are other skeletons in the closet waiting to come tumbling out.

 

Well, considering the fact that we already known Josh is a giant fool, it seems like a foregone conclusion he could sue, or at least try. Grifters - especially really-skilled ones like Boob - are the best there is when it comes to figuring out ways to get $$ - or things - without actually doing any work. He'll be thinking "Well, the worst that can happen is that we get a No..." But if there's any kind of a chance, you know he'll take it - idiot that he is...

Edited April 25, 2016 by Wellfleet

[Aja]

 

And in regards to the lawsuit for AM...How is AM responsible for the hack? 

I think the way AM was 'in the wrong' is that they did not delete personal account details and information after memberships were cancelled, like they say they do. *shrug*

[BitterApple]

Well, considering the fact that we already known Josh is a giant fool, it seems like a foregone conclusion he could sue, or at least try. Grifters - especially really-skilled ones like Boob - are the best there is when it comes to figuring out ways to get $$ - or things - without actually doing any work. He'll be thinking "Well, the worst that can happen is that we get a No..." But if there's any kind of a chance, you know he'll take it - idiot that he is...

That's true. Duggar logic doesn't exactly follow the guidelines of propriety and common sense. It just grinds my gears to think of that pudgy little weasel getting any sort of settlement out of this.

[Marigold]

I still maintain that Anna and josh are writing a book and will do a speaking/book tour about saving their marriage.

so...JB is sneaky sneaky slipping Anna into episodes...making us more interested in her...keeping her on our radar, but not too much.

stealthy.

[JoanArc]

 

so...JB is sneaky sneaky slipping Anna into episodes...making us more interested in her...keeping her on our radar, but not too much.

I agree with those that say Anna is the only real draw for the new show. She's the living embodiment of 'trainwreck'.

[yogi2014L]

On 4/25/2016 at 3:43 PM, JoanArc said:

so...JB is sneaky sneaky slipping Anna into episodes...making us more interested in her...keeping her on our radar, but not too much.

I agree with those that say Anna is the only real draw for the new show. She's the living embodiment of 'trainwreck'.

Watching her on counting on makes me sad for her kids...Shes tanner, thinner, heavily made up and to me seems a little unhinged...I feel so sorry for her, so much pity. Those of us with life experience know that Josh is a lost cause. She thinks she just needs to change for him to be faithful. Its not your fault Anna!

Edited April 27, 2016 by yogi2014L

[TessHarding2]

I tried to look this up before asking here - If Josh is "home", where is he? Living in The Duggar's house?

[sometimesy]

Is Josh the only story line than can save the show? If he reappears, I hope he keeps all the money for himself and Anna so she has something to go after if they split. He owes Boob nothing. 

[Missy Vixen]

23 minutes ago, sometimesy said:

Is Josh the only story line than can save the show? If he reappears, I hope he keeps all the money for himself and Anna so she has something to go after if they split. He owes Boob nothing. 

Joshley Madison won't be giving Anna one red cent if she leaves. He needs to fund his "porn and exotic dancers" lifestyle.

[MamaMax]

On 4/24/2016 at 9:02 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

Ironic how Josh chose the letter M as his theme for naming his kids and how two words that brought him down "molestation" and "Madison" also begin with M.

It must really suck to be Josh right now....if he reads half of what people are saying about him, he must be mortified. When I read about the latest scandal, I wasn't sure if there was a sixth victim or if they were rehashing #5. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of more victims though.

One thing that troubles me is that I'm wondering if Josh's shaming and poor public perception would have been as extensive and hostile had the Duggars been less sanctimonious. For me personally anyway, most of my disgust is with the insidious teachings of this cult and the way women and victims are collectively treated, rather than his transgressions.

That said, I'm not defending him in any way. Sister groping and porn addiction and predatory behavior are behaviors that are antisocial at best and are not regarded by anyone with any sense as normal behavior. The cult they belong to sweeps it under the rug, stressing forgiveness over prosecution., and blames the victim for the males' failings. The perps don't often receive any real psychological help. Send your son to ALERT if you catch him masturbating...but give him a pass for molesting his sisters after he's "cured" by hard labor...and Jeebus jail Lock the girls in their room, blame them for defrauding their brother....play law enforcement past the statute of limitations....

Just seems this cult is so repressive that it only perpetuates this sort of behavior by discouraging any sniff of what we all regard as normal developmental behavior and natural curiosity about bodies that those who have had a normal, healthy upbringing take for granted. People who post on some of the articles regarding the Duggars seem to have far more hostility towards the cult and Bbob and Michelle than towards Josh.

I have posted this link before, but I think it's appropriate here again, for those who didn't see it. http://fiddlrts.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html

[Ljohnson1987]

Maybe Smugs and Anna should name the inevitable M5 Mystery. Because it's a mystery why she hasn't left his ass.

[Minivanessa]

23 minutes ago, Ljohnson1987 said:

Maybe Smugs and Anna should name the inevitable M5 Mystery. Because it's a mystery why she hasn't left his ass.

Sadly, it's no mystery to me. Anna's been thoroughly indoctrinated - for most if not all of her life - with those Christian Patriarchy fundamentalist teachings. She really is all about being a wife and popping out babies, although she appears to be more interested in actually being a mother to her loinfruit than Michelle is. Anna landed one of the fundie royalty when she got JoshUa, and it came with a level of income and creature comforts that is rare for young families following the Quiverfull/Gothardite/etc. Christian patriarchial/fundie belief system. 

It would surprise me if she ever did leave Josh.

[BitterApple]

18 hours ago, auntl said:

Every time they show Anna or her children, I get sad. What is going to happen to them? I don't think that Josh will ever be "cured". He has some real deep rooted problems going on and their belief system will not allow him to get real treatment. On top of it, she has some kind of compulsion to keep having more and more children. The whole thing seems sick and hopeless to me. Poor little kids.

The dynamics of that relationship are horrible. A bored, dissatisfied husband who wants to live a playboy lifestyle and a wife who thinks an endless stream of babies will make him settle down. Talk about a recipe for complete and utter misery.

[Marigold]

Is it just me or has Anna gained weight back since her initial interviews where she was noticeably thin.  I looked at her on the episode where the girls go to Branson and she appeared to be back up to a more "normal" weright for her.

Anna looks fine either way...no shaming!    I was just wondering if  1) I'm crazy  or 2) She is pregnant

[Sew Sumi]

I think the Branson trip was taped before Smuggar was released from Jesus Jail. Anna made some mention of him being away, but I didn't really care enough to rewind and quote it. That said, Anna says about four phrases on a loop, so there's not that much to lose by not watching.