Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Yolapukka]

To me the sale seems a bit more off than someone trying to shield assets from a potential lawsuit. Those who know better, feel free to correct me, but if he was successfully sued, would any judgement stand if he declared bankruptcy? or would it be subject to bankruptcy law, in which case wouldn't the house be sheltered from any such judgement under typical bankruptcy exemptions? Moreover, wouldn't Anna be the legal owner of 1/2 the value of that property? I think something is very, very off about that sale, but unless Josh is planning to slam more of what remains of his assets into the purchase of a home, or someone in that family is being very very stupid (quite possible) it can't be probable that he's trying to shield assets by liquidating the money already invested in a principal residence. I am wondering if it's actually an attempt to keep Anna under the Duggar's thumb by putting what should be her assets shared with Josh under the control of Jim-Boob.

Edited September 14, 2015 by yuggapukka

[pennben]

 

Those who know better, feel free to correct me, but if he was successfully sued, would any judgement stand if he declared bankruptcy? or would it be subject to bankruptcy law, in which case wouldn't the house be sheltered from any such judgement under typical bankruptcy exemptions

 

Not a satisfactory answer, but it all depends.  You are correct, however, he'd be much more likely to shelter a residence from bankruptcy as opposed to cash.

[Guest]

I can't help but wonder what Mack and Michael have been told about their father's time away. Six months is an eternity for children their age. Josh will miss Mack's 6th birthday (Oct.8), Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. It's very sad when you consider the confusion that they probably feel right now. 

[GeeGolly]

Who would sue Josh and for what? Josh was a minor when the molestations occurred. If anyone is being sued for that it would be JB & M. I think it makes the most sense that it was sold to pay for RU or Anna has no cash available to support herself and the kids. If it was sold for a dollar it would reflect that in the records, which is legal, and does not change the value of the house. I don't think Josh is a candidate for bankruptcy, as he doesn't appear to own much and you can file in a way that saves your home. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by GeeGolly

[kokapetl]

The references to "1 dollar and other good and valuable" in warrantee deeds is just legal terminology, the actual price paid is reflected by the amount of stamp duty/tax paid.

[Guest]

Honestly, I can't figure out if he sold the house or not. Yes, Zillow lists it as having been sold last month for $65K, but I checked the Benton County Property Records online and Josh and Anna are still listed as the owners. Color me confused! 

 

Okay, folks. I think I may have solved the mystery of the maybe-sold house.

 

The parcel number provided for Josh and Anna's house on the Zillow website is incorrect when you compare it with their actual parcel number listed on Benton County property records. It is a long string of numbers incorrect by one digit. Very easy to miss.

 

I am guessing that Zillow inputted Josh and Anna's parcel number incorrectly on the listing, but it was a non-issue until the real house with that parcel number was sold. Zillow then updated their website to show that the house with that parcel number had been sold and due to the error, Josh and Anna's house listing was incorrectly updated to show a sale.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Guest

[Oldernowiser]

Does Zillow ever correct anything? My husband owns a real estate company and he fields a dozen calls a year from pissed off clients whose properties are listed incorrectly in Trulia or Zillow. He then dutifully contacts whichever one has messed up the listing (all-time favorite...the listing where they left a 4 off the front of an oceanfront house price, so he got all these calls about the $50,000 house), and nine out of ten times, nothing gets fixed.

You may absolutely be right, but unless someone complained long and often, I'd be surprised if Zillow spontaneously corrected something, although maybe the Duggar famewhore connection had an influence.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Oldernowiser

[cheatincheetos]

Does Zillow ever correct anything?

Very rarely, in my experience. I don't understand how the company's stock price ever climbed so fast-- the zoomable map and such are fun features, but much of the data on there is terrible.

[Loves2Dance]

I really have no idea why Josh is the way he is, but I think he honestly may be a sex addict. Would a "normal" person continue to repeat the same bad behavior that would ultimately destroy him and his family's reputation, if they could help themselves? Nobody in their right mind would IMO. Like any addict, however, Josh has to have professional help before he can even begin to get better.

 

The answer to that varies. Could he truly be addicted? Yes and he would meet the clinical diagnosis criteria.based on the fact that it is destroying his family and he doesn't seem to care/continues to do it (based on the first scandal not causing him to stop the cheating). 

 

However, there is a really big but on this one, he may have honestly thought he could get away with it and had he known the damage he would have done; simply wouldn't have done it. When Josh molested his sisters, his family was just breaking into the TV world. He would have no concept or grasp on where the Duggars were going and how big they would become. If he knew then, what he knows now---there is a very real possibility that he wouldn't have committed the molestation and would have been better about hiding the sex on the side. 

[Loves2Dance]

I can't help but wonder what Mack and Michael have been told about their father's time away. Six months is an eternity for children their age. Josh will miss Mack's 6th birthday (Oct.8), Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. It's very sad when you consider the confusion that they probably feel right now. 

Military families do it all the time; my guess is they've been told he has to be away for work or something along those lines. I highly doubt they have a clue what is truly going on and if they do, no one will talk to them about it honestly. As much as Josh and Anna need real counseling, so do those kids, imo; it should be criminal to keep them from the help they need with such huge transitions so quickly. Their only saving grace is being surrounded by kids their own age to continually keep their minds off of what has happened. 

How much does RU cost? Maybe they are paying for that

$7,500.

We as a society need to stop perpetuating the dangerous idea that college-aged men are allowed to treat women like shit as a part of their maturation process. Rape culture is real.

We, as a society, also need to accept that some men are just sleazy and if there are women who wants to be with them then it should be okay. No one is saying Josh should be able to rape or abuse anyone he wants, but he will likely always be the sleazy boyfriend you wonder why you dated for so long. 

[Julia]

Very rarely, in my experience. I don't understand how the company's stock price ever climbed so fast-- the zoomable map and such are fun features, but much of the data on there is terrible.

 

I gave up on Zillow. Try looking it up on Redfin. I had a good experience with them.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Julia

[3girlsforus]

I can't help but wonder what Mack and Michael have been told about their father's time away. Six months is an eternity for children their age. Josh will miss Mack's 6th birthday (Oct.8), Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. It's very sad when you consider the confusion that they probably feel right now. 

 

I really feel for those kids. I'm sure they are being told everything is great but kids aren't stupid. There is no way Anna is happy every second. They are likely seeing her cry or seem really sad a lot. It has to be confusing.

 

Who would sue Josh and for what? Josh was a minor when the molestations occurred. If anyone is being sued for that it would be JB & M. I think it makes the most sense that it was sold to pay for RU or Anna has no cash available to support herself and the kids. If it was sold for a dollar it would reflect that in the records, which is legal, and does not change the value of the house. I don't think Josh is a candidate for bankruptcy, as he doesn't appear to own much and you can file in a way that saves your home. 

 

This is my question. You can't sue an adult for something he did a a minor. I guess you could make a case to sue JB/Michele but even that's a stretch. 

[Porkchop]

I just looked up my house on Zillow ... above my house (which is in central Massachusetts) it says Appalachian Mountains!

[Joe Jitsu913]

I just looked up my house on Zillow ... above my house (which is in central Massachusetts) it says Appalachian Mountains!

Porkchop... You're from Central Mass too? We might be neighbors!

[doodlebug]

 

Who would sue Josh and for what?

Well, presuming there are other women out there with whom Josh did the deed in the past couple years, he could be sued for child support or also for assaulting a partner and causing injury including emotional distress during rough sex.  However, finding a lawyer to take a personal injury case when the defendant doesn't have much in the way of assets is hard to do.  From what we've seen, Josh' only tangible asset is his house, maybe a car or two.  I suspect he and Anna don't have much in the way of savings and it seems unlikely that Jim Boob gave him much of a cut of the TLC money.  If the house is jointly owned with Anna, then a plaintiff would only be entitled to his half of the proceeds in a sale, which might amount to around $100,000 presuming he owns the house outright with Anna and doesn't have a mortgage and that the house' current value is roughly the same as other houses in his area.

 

As far as the discounted price Josh paid for the house; it is quite possible that the house has a lot of problems that we don't know about.  Otherwise, it would seem like others would've also been bidding on it and driven the price up from a quarter of the possible value.  I know of people trashing their homes prior to allowing the bank to take it.  This house was a foreclosure; it's possible that the previous residents took all of the major appliances, punched holes in the walls, left the faucets running to flood it. or any one of dozens of things that have been reported in similar situations.  If it has a major issue like termite damage or black mold that needs remediation, that also would drive down the cost.  The fact that a nearby house sold for $65,000 and not the reported $200,000 value of homes in that area also indicates that the houses in that neighborhood might not be worth what we've speculated.

 

For the molestation charges, Jim Bob and Michelle would be at risk financially and most likely have a fairly large asset pile at this point, so, if the 5th victim was ever going to go after someone, it would be them.  She'd have a pretty good case that they knew Josh was a danger to her and didn't do enough to protect her.  However, she needs to get in there and file suit soon, because JB and Michelle's assets are diminishing daily with no prospect for any future big TV paydays.

Edited September 14, 2015 by doodlebug

[TaxNerd]

My theory is that Anna is not cut off from her family in FL. She probably could go spend some time down there, but may not want to. If she takes four kids, including a newborn, she may be all on her own in a popular camper.

Her parents are into Gothard and think she needs to stand by her man. I doubt they would help much with the kids, and may just spend the whole visit convincing her she needs to change for Josh.

Personally I wouldn't want to stay in FL in a camper in Sept heat with young kids. The Keller aren't exactly living the life of comparable luxury the Dugger have either.

I really doubt she is so isolated she couldn't escape if she wanted.

Well, presuming there are other women out there with whom Josh did the deed in the past couple years, he could be sued for child support or also for assaulting a partner and causing injury including emotional distress during rough sex. However, finding a lawyer to take a personal injury case when the defendant doesn't have much in the way of assets is hard to do. From what we've seen, Josh' only tangible asset is his house, maybe a car or two. I suspect he and Anna don't have much in the way of savings and it seems unlikely that Jim Boob gave him much of a cut of the TLC money. If the house is jointly owned with Anna, then a plaintiff would only be entitled to his half of the proceeds in a sale, which might amount to around $100,000 presuming he owns the house outright with Anna and doesn't have a mortgage.

For the molestation charges, Jim Bob and Michelle would be at risk financially and most likely have a fairly large asset pile at this point, so, if the 5th victim was ever going to go after someone, it would be them. She'd have a pretty good case that they knew Josh was a danger to her and didn't do enough to protect her. However, she needs to get in there and file suit soon, because JB and Michelle's assets are diminishing daily with no prospect for any future big TV paydays.

People can sue for almost anything. I know someone that was sued for being rear ended at a red light.

I'm sure some shady lawyer would take the case just for the publicity.

I agree it's weird they liquidated the home, especially since most homestead laws protect it. I wonder if Jim Bob was fine paying for it after the first scandal, and the community was glad to pitch in to reno, but the second scandal was too much.

I seriously doubt Josh has a dime left in his own name.

[doodlebug]

 

My theory is that Anna is not cut off from her family in FL. She probably could go spend some time down there, but may not want to

If Anna's brother is correct and Anna's parents are also pushing her to stay married to Smuggar, I can see why she might not be interested in going down there.  She can hear the same BS from her in-laws who at least have an actual place for her to live as well as multiple sister-moms to loan her for childcare help.  No point in going home to Florida if she's going to be living in a tiny trailer with her impoverished parents telling her that Jebus wants her to stay married to a cheating cheater who cheats.

 

Since her parents don't really seem to have the room for Anna and 4 kids, nor the means to support them all; what would be the point of going down there? Out of the frying pan and into the fire....

 

Now, if her parents would be emotionally supportive and allow Anna the time and space to decide on her own future independent of what her parents or in-laws want, that would be a different story.  But, we know that is not the case, their 'faith' teaches that Anna has no free will or agency here and her parents aren't going to stray from that party line.

Edited September 14, 2015 by doodlebug

[Patricia07]

Have the Kellers seen their new granddaughter yet?

[leighdear]

 

I really doubt she is so isolated she couldn't escape if she wanted.

She'd need access to a car with four child safety seats.  That fact alone limits where she can go and how she can get there. 

 

Seriously, she has no real way of leaving. 

[kokapetl]

Anna is in a far better position to extract financial (and voluntary) support from JimBob if she stays with Josh. A divorce at her request carries the risk of alienating JimBob, and him subsequently withdrawing that financial support. She would obviously be entitled to child support from Josh in that scenario, but you can't get blood from a broke, unemployable stone. Stay with the millstone husband and JimBob could make it worth her while.

[Loves2Dance]

She'd need access to a car with four child safety seats.  That fact alone limits where she can go and how she can get there. 

 

Seriously, she has no real way of leaving. 

Not true. They owned a van in DC and that same van should be with them in AK. She could leave the second she wanted to, but she simply doesn't want to. There is no law on record that supports the Duggars and they don't have the cult like atmosphere to keep the kids while shunning the mom a la Waco and like cults often do. They're too high profile to pull that shit anyway.

 

I think it's a very sad true, but one that simply needs to be accepted---Anna doesn't want to leave, so she hasn't. 

 

Also, the other two M children could get away without a safety seat in a pinch. Younger two absolutely need one, but in a true emergency; no officer is going to cite her mid-running away. Also, regardless of whether the house is in Josh's name or Josh and Anna's name but she is still entitled to 50% of that $65K plus whatever else Josh has in his name. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Loves2Dance

[barbedwire]

I too think Josh just doesn't want this lifestyle anymore.  My guess is he is tired of his circus family that consists of mom, dad, and way too many young siblings he just doesn't know nor will ever be close too.

 

He wants no more kids, but can't say it aloud.  That is wrong!

 

He needs a good counselor that will let him be honest and figure things out.  He needs to grow a pair and tell his parents that he is not them and will never live their lifestyle.  He needs to get the hell outta Arkansas and take his wife and kids.

[Julia]

I too think Josh just doesn't want this lifestyle anymore.  My guess is he is tired of his circus family that consists of mom, dad, and way too many young siblings he just doesn't know nor will ever be close too.

 

He wants no more kids, but can't say it aloud.  That is wrong!

 

He needs a good counselor that will let him be honest and figure things out.  He needs to grow a pair and tell his parents that he is not them and will never live their lifestyle.  He needs to get the hell outta Arkansas and take his wife and kids.

 

If we're being prescriptive, I'm not all that concerned about Josh's future, but it would probably be the first act of conspicuous decency in his life if he would just file for divorce and hand detailed financials over to Anna's lawyer. 

[zenme]

Just watched The View with Dr. Phil as a guest. They asked him what he thought of the Duggar situation, and his opinion is that there is way more to be uncovered wrt the Duggar family. In his Dr. Phil speak he said, "For every rat, there's 50 more," and says he's also wondering what issues the rest have.

[TaxNerd]

Just watched The View with Dr. Phil as a guest. They asked him what he thought of the Duggar situation, and his opinion is that there is way more to be uncovered wrt the Duggar family. In his Dr. Phil speak he said, "For every rat, there's 50 more," and says he's also wondering what issues the rest have.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day :)

[yogi2014L]

If we're being prescriptive, I'm not all that concerned about Josh's future, but it would probably be the first act of conspicuous decency in his life if he would just file for divorce and hand detailed financials over to Anna's lawyer. 

 

Imagine every single time you had sex you had a partner wanting to make babies and you DID NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT WANT any more kids.

Sex would be riddled with anxiety, not fun, a chore. Not excusing it but maybe that has a lot to do with why he cheated. He just wanted to have sex without the pressure of making more mouths to feed. ( granted he should have just gotten a secret vasectomy but who knows if he even knows what that is)

 

I am not excusing what he did in the slightest, but he really needs to ditch the idea of Gothard, have a normal sex without procreating, enjoy the four kids he has and see how he feels. 

[kathe5133]

Some have mentioned that perhaps Josh was looking elsewhere for sex because he didn't want anymore children and maybe Anna did.I don't think he cares how many kids Anna has, if Anna gets pregnant, etc.  To say he was "worried" about having more children than he could afford, not wanting the "responsibility"  implies that he has some ability to think things through like a responsible adult.  He isn't equipped to be an adult.  He thought he could have the wife, the kids, the job, and then "hey lookee here, this here website will match me up with gurls, I just have to give them my credit card, and it's confidential!"  He's a child and he found a way, or so he thought,  to have his cake and eat it too.  He wanted to get laid and he did.  I believe it's that simple.  Of course, YMMV. 

[kokapetl]

Dr Phil does/did specialise in psychological profiling of witnesses, jurors, judges and so on, to provide legal teams with winning tactics, he knows manipulation.

[Julia]

Imagine every single time you had sex you had a partner wanting to make babies and you DID NOT ABSOLUTELY NOT WANT any more kids.

Sex would be riddled with anxiety, not fun, a chore. Not excusing it but maybe that has a lot to do with why he cheated. He just wanted to have sex without the pressure of making more mouths to feed. ( granted he should have just gotten a secret vasectomy but who knows if he even knows what that is)

 

I am not excusing what he did in the slightest, but he really needs to ditch the idea of Gothard, have a normal sex without procreating, enjoy the four kids he has and see how he feels. 

 

OK, I'm imagining that. Now I'm imagining marrying a woman who isn't allowed to divorce me and promising to be a completely different person for the rest of our lives when I have no particular interest in that life or in fidelity.

 

And if I'm a decent human being for once in my life, I file for divorce and give her a shot at having the life I promised her.

[yogi2014L]

OK, I'm imagining that. Now I'm imagining marrying a woman who isn't allowed to divorce me and promising to be a completely different person for the rest of our lives when I have no particular interest in that life or in fidelity.

 

And if I'm a decent human being for once in my life, I file for divorce and give her a shot at having the life I promised her.

Oh I agree it would be the decent thing for Josh to do( to divorce anna but continue to financially support her), but I don't think he sees it that way.

 

I do wonder if Anna agreed to no more kids, would their relationship improve? Maybe its not the relationship/monogamy that isnt working, but Gothardism. ( From what I saw on the show I do think they do care for each other)

 

I really really wish they would see a legitimate couples therapist and psychologist.....

Edited September 14, 2015 by yogi2014L

[Wellfleet]

Just watched The View with Dr. Phil as a guest. They asked him what he thought of the Duggar situation, and his opinion is that there is way more to be uncovered wrt the Duggar family. In his Dr. Phil speak he said, "For every rat, there's 50 more," and says he's also wondering what issues the rest have.

 

Sorry but I have to give you a Not Impressed, Phil. I do not have advanced degrees in psychology or medicine, but I was able to come to the same conclusion years ago, just by watching the Duggar show and really thinking about what I was seeing. As did MANY other forum participants here. It's been clear from the very beginning that this family has "a lot" going on. We've been anticipating bombshell announcements from Duggarville for a long time. Anyone who's been watching - and REALLY thinking - has been.

[truthtalk2014]

She'd need access to a car with four child safety seats.  That fact alone limits where she can go and how she can get there. 

 

Seriously, she has no real way of leaving. 

If there is one thing the Duggar compound has - it is car seats.  They probably have 50 or so in that shed out back.

[Almost 3000]

If we're being prescriptive, I'm not all that concerned about Josh's future, but it would probably be the first act of conspicuous decency in his life if he would just file for divorce and hand detailed financials over to Anna's lawyer. 

Or talk openly to Anna about birth control and limiting family size and if they can't agree on what their future might look like then mutually agree to divorce. At least let Anna in on the conversation.

[3girlsforus]

OK, I'm imagining that. Now I'm imagining marrying a woman who isn't allowed to divorce me and promising to be a completely different person for the rest of our lives when I have no particular interest in that life or in fidelity.

 

And if I'm a decent human being for once in my life, I file for divorce and give her a shot at having the life I promised her.

 

I am also imagining that this woman I'm marrying has been told all of her life that her only value is having babies and that men only cheat or stray sexually if their women aren't doing what they are supposed to. Unfortunately for her the chances of my being a decent human being are pretty slim. Oh the plus side, I get a 6 month vacation from the responsibilities of my wife and kids and will come home to a sufficiently brainwashed wife who has been threatened to 'keep sweet' because that's what Jesus wants and a mom and dad ready to pay anything to get me established as the wonderful son that was tempted by Satan but fixed by Gothard. 

[zenme]

Sorry but I have to give you a Not Impressed, Phil. I do not have advanced degrees in psychology or medicine, but I was able to come to the same conclusion years ago, just by watching the Duggar show and really thinking about what I was seeing. As did MANY other forum participants here. It's been clear from the very beginning that this family has "a lot" going on. We've been anticipating bombshell announcements from Duggarville for a long time. Anyone who's been watching - and REALLY thinking - has been

 

I have to agree with you, Wellfleet.  I'm just hoping that he's invited Josh, or even Jimbo and Michelle, to the show.  I doubt they'd go.  I think he'd give them a few, "What the hell were you thinking?" responses, which is the same thing I'm wondering. 

[MarysWetBar]

Sorry but I have to give you a Not Impressed, Phil. I do not have advanced degrees in psychology or medicine, but I was able to come to the same conclusion years ago, just by watching the Duggar show and really thinking about what I was seeing. As did MANY other forum participants here. It's been clear from the very beginning that this family has "a lot" going on. We've been anticipating bombshell announcements from Duggarville for a long time. Anyone who's been watching - and REALLY thinking - has been.

Apologies to Dr Fool's fan base but i recall reading somewhere years ago that he isn't even a Dr?

He's more like an ambulance chaser.If it's what the public is watching he will find some way to get camera time from it.

[sometimesy]

I have to agree with you, Wellfleet.  I'm just hoping that he's invited Josh, or even Jimbo and Michelle, to the show.  I doubt they'd go.  I think he'd give them a few, "What the hell were you thinking?" responses, which is the same thing I'm wondering. 

Is there a lawsuit pending or is the a threat of a potential lawsuit? If so, the Duggars will have to stay off tv or most media involving discussions of Joshgate. Didn't they insist on People articles or something staying away from that topic? That's why I don't think a tell-all is straightforward, as anyone who writes it could be providing information for lawsuits. I think the Fox interview brought that possibility to their attention.

[TaxNerd]

Apologies to Dr Fool's fan base but i recall reading somewhere years ago that he isn't even a Dr?

He's more like an ambulance chaser.If it's what the public is watching he will find some way to get camera time from it.

His Dr is in psychology.

[MarysWetBar]

http://everydaypsychology.com/2008/01/is-dr-phil-actually-psychologist.html?m=1

But he's technically not licensed to act as a psychologist?

This confuses me. Can someone answer this in small talk for me?

Edited September 14, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[JenCarroll]

Just watched The View with Dr. Phil as a guest. They asked him what he thought of the Duggar situation, and his opinion is that there is way more to be uncovered wrt the Duggar family. In his Dr. Phil speak he said, "For every rat, there's 50 more," and says he's also wondering what issues the rest have.

I think Dr. Phil gets it right a lot of the time, albeit he's frequently an asshole about it, but this wasn't what you'd call a slam dunk. We all knew this.

And for heavens sake, yes he is a doctor. He has a PhD in psychology which is what all psychologists have. It's not an MD so he isn't and has never claimed to be a psychiatrist. I can't believe I'm defending Dr. Phil here, but it's a bit of a pet peeve. It's a peculiarly American idea that only MD's should call themselves doctors. My husband and I are both addressed as "Doctor" when we teach college course (as we sometimes do). There's nothing shady about Phil McGraw calling himself Doctor. (My friends in the sciences like to say, "I'm a real doctor, not a medical one.")

OK, veering off topic and probably overly cranky. Sorry, all. It's a bad day and I'm on pain meds.

Edited because no, I did not want that changed to "pain mess." Thanks again, auto-correct.

Edited September 14, 2015 by JenCarroll

[NEGirl]

Sorry but I have to give you a Not Impressed, Phil. I do not have advanced degrees in psychology or medicine, but I was able to come to the same conclusion years ago, just by watching the Duggar show and really thinking about what I was seeing. As did MANY other forum participants here. It's been clear from the very beginning that this family has "a lot" going on. We've been anticipating bombshell announcements from Duggarville for a long time. Anyone who's been watching - and REALLY thinking - has been.

Wellfleet - I could not agree more!  I have never really liked Dr.Phil. And, like you said, anyone who has watched the Duggars for any length of time knew they had " a lot" going on and it was only a matter of time before the shit hit the fan. No family is that perfect and godly.  If the Duggars have any sense they will keep their mouths shut and not dig themselves further amo for lawsuits and problems. However, I, like most people here, am just waiting for the next bomb to drop.

[MarysWetBar]

*steps forward timidly* Thank you JenCarrol.I'm Canadian but obviously think like an American sometimes. I'm sorry you are having a bad day and are in pain. I'll be over here not asking anymore silly questions if you need me. (Totally get the pain crankies myself!)

*passes virtual narcotics your way* :)

[JenCarroll]

*steps forward timidly* Thank you JenCarrol.I'm Canadian but obviously think like an American sometimes. I'm sorry you are having a bad day and are in pain. I'll be over here not asking anymore silly questions if you need me. (Totally get the pain crankies myself!)

*passes virtual narcotics your way* :)

There are silly questions in the world; that wasn't one of them. Ask away -- how else do we learn? Know who doesn't ask questions? Duggars. :-)

Sorry I was testy. You happened to hit me on a pet peeve, on a particularly peevish kind of day. Not your fault at all.

[kokapetl]

I believe Dr Phil has a doctorate in Clinical Psychology, however, he was sanctioned and publicly reprimanded by the relevant Texas authority for an ethical violation relating to a patient of his in 1988. His practise was under board supervision until 1990, when the matter was considered closed. Coincidently, he ceased practising in 1990 and founded Courtroom Sciences with a lawyer and began 'Trial Consulting', where one of his later clients was Oprah. He voluntarily retired his license to practise/treat patients in 2006.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Kokapetl

[lookeyloo]

I believe Dr Phil has a doctorate in clinical psychology, however, he was sanctioned and publicly reprimanded by the relevant Texas authority for an ethical violation relating to a patient of his in 1988. His practice was under board supervision until 1990, when the matte was considered closed. Coincidently, he ceased practicing in 1990 and founded Courtroom Sciences with a lawyer and began 'Trial Consulting', where one of his later clients was Oprah.

I understand it that way too.  But I seem to remember that he didn't want to be licensed because he would be under scrutiny and have to answer to the Board.  Anybody?

[zenme]

Sorry I brought it up. Didn't mean to spark a Dr. Phil debate. Just wanted to share a Duggar-related tidbit that I happened to catch.

[kokapetl]

I understand it that way too. But I seem to remember that he didn't want to be licensed because he would be under scrutiny and have to answer to the Board. Anybody?

You're right. He voluntarily retired his Texas board license to practise/treat patients in 2006, but a 2002 California board decision ruled that his show was entertainment not psychology and didn't require a license.

[Anne Elk]

I don't think that Josh married Anna with no intent whatsoever to be faithful. I doubt he is that introspective or insightful about himself. I think he believed that marriage would mean he would finally get all the sex he wanted and he didn't think past that. And then, when he realized that marriage didn't "cure" him, he probably blamed Anna for not being enough woman for him. That way, he had all the excuse he needed to step out on her.

 

I doubt Josh will ever be honest with Anna about what he wants, because I doubt he is ever honest with himself about what he wants. He knows he should live the Gothard way, so that's what he fronts. When he fails to live up to what he preaches, Gothardite teachings hand him a whole bunch of scapegoats he can blame: his wife, porn, temptresses, his sisters, Satan, etc. Why would he ever look past that and see how he's the one at fault?

Edited September 14, 2015 by Anne Elk

[kellylovessnark]

If there is one thing the Duggar compound has - it is car seats. They probably have 50 or so in that shed out back.

Car seats have an expiration date. So how of those have not expired?

[kokapetl]

Car seats have an expiration date. So how of those have not expired?

I had no idea these things expire. Would an infant car seat purchased for M1 still be usable at the time M3 was born, and still usable now for M4? Assuming replacements were required and were purchased in a timely manner before scandal #1 hit, would the newest infant seat be current for M4?