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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

maraleia

By maraleia
in Counting On

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What In The

What In The

I knew a woman whose husband cheated on her a month after their wedding and then started a three year long affair later in the marriage. She made the money in the house and had no reason to keep him but she did. Who really knows why so,e women stay?

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hoosier80
hoosier80

New show title: 10 to 20 Years and Counting 

MargeGunderson
MargeGunderson

Someone on Reddit just described Josh’s face as a glistening glazed ham. I am considering divorcing my husband and marrying that poster. 

doodlebug
doodlebug

Well, for many of us, it's the difference between 'imperfect' and 'non-PC' and being a criminal.  Josh is a child molester and his parents actively intervened in his situation to avoid him being punis

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Wasn't their latest baby around five weeks old when this scandal broke?   And women get six week exams after giving birth?

 

Hopefully Anna's OB/GYN realized she needed to be tested for STDs and made sure it got done.  Because I, too, doubt Anna realizes STDs are something she needs to be thinking about.  

Do non-hospital affiliated Midwifes do a postpartum visit? Can they check for STDs? The odds are that Anna had a home birth.

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Julia

Julia

I find this report to be particularly disturbing and infuriating:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/josh-duggar-has-no-remorse-for-his-actions-report/ar-AAe4mip?ocid=ansmsnsports11

 

and would love to know who the "source" is.

Probably Amy or her husband. They're the only ones we know are talking to ET, and they've both said roughly the same thing to other media. They're just reaching the limit of what they can say on the record because I'm sure it's been a while since anyone has actually told them anything.

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CofCinci

CofCinci

Do non-hospital affiliated Midwifes do a postpartum visit? Can they check for STDs? The odds are that Anna had a home birth.

And I think a lot of these Fundie types use home births and unlicensed midwives solely so their wives don't get STD checks and learn that their husbands are cheating hypocrites.
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

I find this report to be particularly disturbing and infuriating:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/josh-duggar-has-no-remorse-for-his-actions-report/ar-AAe4mip?ocid=ansmsnsports11

 

and would love to know who the "source" is.

 

Ah, the "source" again. Hi, Amy!

Anna doesn't have to divorce Josh. But she needs to get away and figure out her options. If she wants to stay with Josh that's her choice but it's time to get out of this f list celebrity status and put her kids first. Get some real therapy. If Josh continues his behavior and she doesn't really care what he does then that's also her choice. But right now her kids need to come first. She should start focusing on them and not Josh. She has plenty of support to help her.

 

 

I think this is one of those places where the not-believing-in-therapy-because-I-rely-on-Jesus thing really bites you in the ass.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

(edited)

I can believe it.  My ex was like that.  And maybe this is Josh's way of getting out of the marriage.  

 

Yeah to this.

 

And, you know, Josh had (has) to be a person whose insides are just split up and compartmentalized in so many ways. He had to have swallowed a lot of the Duggar belief and guilt and so on, and at the same time he had his various sex drives and his arrogance and on and on. And both because of the belief in "just pray it away" and their lack of respect for the intellect and his own arrogance and jerkiness -- and just being a young dumb horny man -- you know he'd never really spent a minute in his life truly trying to grapple with what he actually does believe, feel, want. The pressure of having so many kids so young -- and kids that he really did seem to like -- would just have worsened a tendency to try to block everything out and just do what he wanted, I think. ... Much as I'd like to slug Josh numerous times, it really can't be easy to be him, and being under intense pressures often just makes us act like even worse jerks because it's a way of denying that the pressure even exists.

 

What a mess. And given the Duggar family ethos and belief system, a mess that none of them may ever really emerge from. Those poor little kids.

Edited by Churchhoney
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3girlsforus

3girlsforus

Do non-hospital affiliated Midwifes do a postpartum visit? Can they check for STDs? The odds are that Anna had a home birth.

 

Mine did. I had an in-home visit at 2 or 3 days postpartum, then 6 weeks and 6 months in the office. There might have been one more in there too but it's been quite a while. This is why I really am sad she wasn't still in DC for the birth. I know those midwives. They would have made sure she got tested. Or at least they would have discussed it with her. No one can force testing on anyone but it wouldn't have been ignored. They are licensed, legal, certified nurse-midwives with decades of experience. Who knows who she ended up with at the last minute when they went back to Arkansas.

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Julia

Julia

(edited)

Wouldn't the rehab have forced Josh into testing? It's not like pretty much anybody on the planet with an internet connection doesn't know he barebacked a porn performer at this point.

Edited by Julia
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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Wouldn't the rehab have forced Josh into testing? It's not like pretty much anybody on the planet with an internet connection doesn't know he barebacked a porn performer at this point.

No, they can't do that. It is not their business. Medical privacy extends even when in rehab.

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CofCinci

CofCinci

Meh, It's not an earth shattering gesture but it's an afternoon that she can focus on herself and make herself feel better. And at this point I feel it's more than any of her sisters in law would provide (at least Jill and Jessa). I think Amy's heart is in the right place.

JB isn't letting Anna go anywhere by herself. She'll most likely be accompanied by Joyless or Cinder-Jana.
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Julia

Julia

(edited)

No, they can't do that. It is not their business. Medical privacy extends even when in rehab.

 

Yes, actually, they can. About half of the drug rehab programs in the country provide HIV testing (since sex addiction is not a real thing, I can't give you statistics on those programs). 

Edited by Julia
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3girlsforus

3girlsforus

Meh, It's not an earth shattering gesture but it's an afternoon that she can focus on herself and make herself feel better. And at this point I feel it's more than any of her sisters in law would provide (at least Jill and Jessa). I think Amy's heart is in the right place.

 

I agree. Amy wanted to do something for her. She can't fix the problem or put Anna's life back together. So she chose just a little something that could help her feel good, even for just an hour or two. 

Yes, actually, they can. About half of the drug rehab programs in the country provide HIV testing (since sex addiction is not a real thing, I can't give you statistics on those programs). 

Right - they can do this by making it a requirement for admittance. They can't tie the person down and forcibly test them but they can refuse them admittance to the rehab program if they don't get tested.

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Yes, actually, they can. About half of the drug rehab programs in the country provide HIV testing (since sex addiction is not a real thing, I can't give you statistics on those programs). 

Provide and demand are two different things. It would be against he law to deny admittance to any program for not having an STD screening that takes public monies. And even a private rehab could set themselves up for a discrimination lawsuit if they demanded STD screenings.

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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

Meh, It's not an earth shattering gesture but it's an afternoon that she can focus on herself and make herself feel better. And at this point I feel it's more than any of her sisters in law would provide (at least Jill and Jessa). I think Amy's heart is in the right place.

I can't snark on Amy for that. It's a nice thought, and subtle way of saying GTFO of that house for a few hours and think.

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Julia

Julia

(edited)

I can't snark on Amy for that. It's a nice thought, and subtle way of saying GTFO of that house for a few hours and think.

 

I'd've been a little more impressed by the idea of Amy giving Anna a present if Anna wasn't part of one of the top news stories in the country and Amy hadn't interrupted her honeymoon to run to the press about it afterwards. Either way, I'll bet Anna would have traded the manicure for Amy and Amy's husband not running their mouths about what a piece of shit her husband is and how much they don't want to be associated with him to every publication they can find. 

Edited by Julia
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JoanArc

JoanArc

 

Either way, I'll bet Anna would have traded the manicure for Amy and Amy's husband not running their mouths about what a piece of shit her husband is and how much they don't want to be associated with him to every publication they can find.

Well, the did make it public that they gave Anna that gift, so, I'll snark on them for that, I'm not an Amy or Anna fan.

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doodlebug

doodlebug

 

Wasn't their latest baby around five weeks old when this scandal broke?   And women get six week exams after giving birth?

As mentioned above, we don't know who delivered Anna, whether they were actually licensed and certified.  Even if they were appropriately trained and certified, STD testing isn't a routine part of postpartum care.  Someone would've had to mention it during the visit, either Anna or the practitioner, and then Anna would've had to consent to it.  I can imagine Josh and the other Duggars telling Anna that she didn't need testing, that he couldn't possibly have an STD and Anna would probably believe it as she has been trained to believe and follow her master.  As it is, here in the US, about a third of women don't bother returning for a postpartum visit anyway, and, with Anna's current situation, I can see where it might not be high on her list, either.

 

Many states require some STD testing as part of prenatal care, mine requires gonorrhea cultures and bloodwork for syphilis.  The organization that employs me includes full STD screening as an automatic part of the prenatal blood work.  The woman would have to specifically opt out or it would be done.

 

As far as rehab testing Josh, the place where he is at is not a real rehab and has no certified counsellors.  The legitimate places would require a full physical exam as well as testing for any pertinent diseases (ie hepatitis and HIV for drug users and STI for sex 'addicts') if only to protect their other staff and clients from potential exposures.  That would have all been done before he was allowed to reside there.  The place where he is at probably doesn't bother with this because they probably don't have affiliation with any medical providers who could do the exams, order the tests and provide treatment and counselling.  Even outpatient facilities with legitimate credentials would counsel their clients about the potential disease risks they face and recommend proper medical assessment, but this place is not legit.

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Celia Rubenstein

Celia Rubenstein

Do non-hospital affiliated Midwifes do a postpartum visit? Can they check for STDs? The odds are that Anna had a home birth.

 

Silly me, what was I thinking?  Of course Anna probably wasn't under the care of, you know, a real doctor. Duh.  Me and my silly 21st century medical expectations.  She probably popped out her latest blessing in the bathroom again, and lord knows who was attending her.  It is probably unlikely whatever undertrained unlicensed fellow fundie who was there for the birth even considered the need to mention STDs to Anna at a later check-up (assuming there even was one), or suggest she see a (gasp!) real doctor.  I just hope someone has had the nerve to tell her she is at risk and encourage her to have herself checked out.  But as insulated as she is right now, I seriously doubt it.  

 

Doesn't Anna have some kind of fundie-rebel sister?  Wouldn't she perhaps reach out to Anna and implore her to be tested?  God only knows what was growing in that petri dish of potential infections Josh hooked up with.  The woman is a hooker, for Pete's sake.  Sex worker.  Whatever you want to call her.  She has sex with men for money.  Bareback, unprotected S-E-X.  Someone in Anna's life surely must care enough about her to get real about this subject.  I hope. 

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Mindymoo

Mindymoo

It's especially frightening because say Josh contracted syphilis during one of his bareback adventures. Then he gave it to Anna, who is none the wiser. Congenital syphilis can cause so many issues if left untreated, like blindness and deafness, not to mention the facial deformities like saddle nose. (Unless you are interested in medical oddities and deformities, do not look up saddle nose.) If Anna is ignorant to all of this and doesn't get herself and her babies checked out (because I have a hard time believing that he was only cheating for this short period of time) she could be opening herself and those kids up to a world of physical pain and disabilities.

 

Also, interesting fact: rhinoplasty was invented in the 16th century as a way to reconstruct people with saddle nose (a.k.a. their nose rotted away from their face because of syphilis.)

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JoanArc

JoanArc

Chlamydia is often asymptomatic and can DESTROY a woman's fertility if left untreated. I hope that's enough to scare Anna into being tested. Not to mention the potential complications for the kids....or getting HIV, etc.

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Celia Rubenstein

Celia Rubenstein

Wouldn't it turn out to be terribly ironic if Anna really did have some kind of venereal disease that left her infertile because she went without treatment, and it turns out that one hour spent in Planned Parenthood might have prevented it from happening?  

 

Not that I wish such a fate upon her, of course. 

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JoanArc

JoanArc

(edited)

Wouldn't it turn out to be terribly ironic if Anna really did have some kind of venereal disease that left her infertile because she went without treatment, and it turns out that one hour spent in Planned Parenthood might have prevented it from happening?  

 

Not that I wish such a fate upon her, of course. 

She probably thinks you can get an abortion without being pregnant.

Edited by JoanArc
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EarlGreyTea

EarlGreyTea

(edited)

"A list reality family"...That might be the funniest thing I've read in AGES. 

 

I'd say they're A-list in reality circles. The only other franchise to get as much publicity are the Real Housewives and/or Jon and Kate. Obviously they're nothing in the larger Hollywood scheme of things, but they've gotten some serious tabloid coverage that other reality families only dream of (looking at you, Roloffs).

 

Thanks to Josh, the family's now a household name. Good one, Josh.

Edited by EarlGreyTea
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Mindymoo

Mindymoo

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I'd say they're A-list in reality circles. The only other franchise to get as much publicity are the Real Housewives and/or Jon and Kate. Obviously they're nothing in the larger Hollywood scheme of things, but they've gotten some serious tabloid coverage that other reality families only dream of (looking at you, Roloffs).

 

Thanks to Josh, the family's now a household name. Good one, Josh.

I never even went to these forums before the Josh news broke! I read about them online and their awful behavior, but I came here to see the reactions. I stayed because I kinda love you people.

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Quilt Fairy

Quilt Fairy

I never even went to these forums before the Josh news broke! I read about them online and their awful behavior, but I came here to see the reactions. I stayed because I kinda love you people.

I've been perusing these threads for a while now, never watched the show, but stay for the same reason as you: The snark is strong in these posters.

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MyPeopleAreNordic

MyPeopleAreNordic

(edited)

And I think a lot of these Fundie types use home births and unlicensed midwives solely so their wives don't get STD checks and learn that their husbands are cheating hypocrites.

Wow. I never thought about that! I always figured it was because they didn't have/buy health insurance. But that's an excellent explanation as well.

As far as STDs that Anna could have contracted from Josh's cheating, I'd be most worried about HPV. It's the most common STD in the U.S.: "Current statistics on HPV indicate that at least 50 percent of sexually active men and women acquire a genital HPV infection at some point in their lives. By age 50, at least 80 percent of women will have been infected with genital HPV infection." (http://hpv.emedtv.com/hpv/hpv-statistics.html)

Many strains of HPV have no symptoms - you wouldn't even know you had it until you had an abnormal Pap smear. Some of the strains cause cervical cancer. Has Anna ever had a Pap smear? Does she see an OB/GYN or even a family doctor who does apps every two years or year? If -heaven forbid - she had the kind that causes cancer, would she know in enough time for treatment before it possibly became cancer? Yes, there's an HPV vaccine, but I am almost positive Anna didn't get it (boys get it too in some places, but I'm sure Josh didn't get it either). Religious conservatives were very anti-HPV vaccine when it came out (and I think still are). I hope Anna gets routine Pap smears!

Edited by MyPeopleAreNordic
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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)

I never even went to these forums before the Josh news broke! I read about them online and their awful behavior, but I came here to see the reactions. I stayed because I kinda love you people.

 

Same here.  I did some reading long ago on the Quiverfull movement, and then later Gothard, so I was disgusted that this family was given a television series (and magazine spreads, and interviews, and ...) that presented such a thoroughly whitewashed version of their beliefs and lifestyle.  I didn't watch it, and I didn't read discussion of it. 

 

Then the scandals started hitting, and this turned out to be the best repository of information.  So reading this thread and the Media thread in order to stay updated became routine.  I came for the info, and stayed for the snark.

Edited by Bastet
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Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

Congenital syphilis can cause so many issues if left untreated, like blindness and deafness, not to mention the facial deformities like saddle nose.

 

I'm almost positive this was a VC Andrews novel. Not one of the Dahlengangers, but hey, there's another fundamentalist family engaging in sexual shenanigans. In a much trashier and more entertaining way.than the Duggars.

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magpye29

magpye29

I'm also a non-watcher who has become addicted to this forum and all the snark.  I would like to add that it is incredibly annoying that this show has been taken off the main forum list.

 

On topic, I give Anna a lot of credit for attending Amy's wedding.  That had to be such an ordeal for her.

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Guest

Guest

On topic, I give Anna a lot of credit for attending Amy's wedding.  That had to be such an ordeal for her.

 

Me too. Anna is a much bigger person that I am, because if King Dill Pickle had kicked me in the media while I was down, I would've pulled my daughter out of his wedding so fast it would've made his abnormally large head spin. 

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Blondeone21

Blondeone21

She can go to any Planned Parenthood and get an STD panel done.

A midwife likely wouldn't have the in with the hospital to run it herself. Generally, you need a swab and/or blood work to ensure you're 100% STD free.

The only way these people will go to Planned Parenthood is to picket/protest/preach.

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Loves2Dance

Loves2Dance

I find this report to be particularly disturbing and infuriating:

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/josh-duggar-has-no-remorse-for-his-actions-report/ar-AAe4mip?ocid=ansmsnsports11

 

and would love to know who the "source" is.

If it's true, that isn't much of a shock. As a child and throughout his teenager years, Josh wasn't really taught empathy; he was taught that he was better than everyone else because he wasn't just the oldest, but also a man...he's spent his entire life knowing that he would be the ruler of his own roost and sly enough to think he could get away with everything he wants to do. 

 

The lack of remorse makes more sense to me than a man who is torn apart and wanting to go back to normal. Josh was living his normal, it was the Duggar shit that he kept up for the fame, glory, and money. 

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3girlsforus

3girlsforus

 

 

On topic, I give Anna a lot of credit for attending Amy's wedding.  That had to be such an ordeal for her.

 

I agree and regardless of the circumstances I think it was really amazing she went and didn't have a meltdown. But I can't imagine she had much of a choice. Can you imagine her telling JB that she wasn't going? He knew the press would be there and there was no way he was going to let it look like Anna is destroyed. 

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Absolom

Absolom

On the other hand getting out of the house and to be around people other than the Duggars for a bit and to see her daughter participate could also have been some relief even if it was a wedding.  There was at least some distraction value in going. 

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Julia

Julia

I don't get why they're not shunning Josh, Amish-style. Isn't that what cults do? It would be the best solution for everyone involved.

 

They've gone that way before, but unfortunately in this case they've boxed themselves in with all the prodigal son rhetoric they tossed around after the first round of dirt came out.

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