Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Bella]

I love this conversation.

 

I'm just asking that people try to be a bit more aware of thread drift and shift media/TLC discussions to that thread when appropriate. 

 

Thanks!

[CofCinci]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but, Wyndham Hotels responded a few minutes ago to a boycott tweet someone tagged me in and stated, "We share your concerns and have removed our ad from “19 Kids and Counting” which was part of a larger sponsorship with TLC."

Dropping like flies.

These companies are getting more publicity and exposure by announcing that they're pulling their ads than their ads on the Duggar show actually provided for them.

[tinderbox]

Just because the show goes off the air (if it does) doesn't mean the Duggar's earning potential dries up. I'm sure they're viewed quite heroically by the fundamentalist community, and they will be very much in demand for speaking and other appearances.

You're right. JB will figure out a way to earn more dollars, if the show goes off the air, and probably will have many opportunities to do so. That said, I think the entire family has become quite comfortable being "famous" and LOVES being on television and magazine covers....regardless of the money factor. My guess is they would miss the overall attention quite a bit.

[Morgalisa]

 

 Until and unless the girls leave the strictures of their extreme belief system, they have control over NOTHING. As an escapee of fundamental Christianity, there is no way to overemphasize how thoroughly locked-in they are. Without a massive paradigm shift, they will do what the men in their lives tell them to do. If you see them bringing a lawsuit now, it will be because that's what they were instructed to do.

This is why I am not interested in a spinoff of Jill and Jessa.  The only show I would watch would be to see them have a massive paradigm shift and that is not going to happen.  Otherwise what we get will be JimBob and Michelle 2.0.  I don't want to watch them having more babies than they can parent, spewing hate (but never on the show), pretending that they have infinite patience with their kids (while using a "rod" and blanket training) and keeping sweet. It's time for some truth telling if they want me to watch.  And no, I don't need or want to know any details of their abuse.  I would like to see some enlightenment though.

 

JimBob's net worth is estimated to be around $3.5 million.  That is not a lot of money to take care of 30 people (and counting) forever.  Because none of the children have any prospects for making money in the future.  I don't think JimBob's model is sustainable.  Not every one of those kids can work for him forever and have a baby every year.  Something's gotta give. IMO.  

[CofCinci]

I find myself wondering more about how Anna is doing? Are they in Arkansas now?

[NextIteration]

I find myself wondering more about how Anna is doing? Are they in Arkansas now?

 

Good questions.  Things are simmering down, but still - Jill and her newborn and recovery and Jessa and her pregnancy as well.

[rulesoftravel]

The TLC staff could probably use some professional help. I’m sure they are in shock.

 

I find myself amused that TLC  is "acting" like it didn't know.  Oprah Winfrey knows, but TLC doesn't.  Oprah Winfrey cancels the appearance on her show, but TLC doesn't know why.  Please. They're only shocked because everyone knows now.    

[Fuzzysox]

Just for giggles can you imagine if the Duggar clan went to a Catholic church and went to confession, I would love to be a fly on the wall.

I'd love to see Josh put holy water on himself upon entering only to see if the holy water would burn.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[NEGirl]

TLC may not have know when they first signed the Duggars. However, that rumor about Josh was floating around social media for ages, so I do not believe that after a period of time TLC did not know. I think they just thought it would never come out and TLC did not want to stop their cash cow.

[bigskygirl]

Please do not discuss where the family lives or driving by their houses to see what is going on. This is possibly going into the creepy stalking mode especially since there are young children involved. Any posts on this subject will be hidden or edited. Thank you for your cooperation.

[parisprincess]

In giving it some thought, I’m not surprised that Josh did what he did.  When you’re a teenage boy with raging hormones, and your parents, instead of explaining the changes you’re going through, talk (on a daily basis) about defrauding, and pound into your head that you’re not supposed to have impure thoughts, while your dad (on a daily basis) gropes your mother, it has to be hard to keep all thoughts of sex off your mind.  Think about it.  JimBob can’t seem to talk about anything else except his daughter’s purity, modesty, sexing up Michelle for another baby (hey, hey, hey), all the sinful things that are going to send you to hell, etc., and if he’s not talking about these things, he’s playing grab ass and sticking his tongue down Michelle’s throat.

 

JimBob and Michelle not only hid their son’s crimes, but they put all the thoughts about sex in his head by talking about how sinful it would be for him, while flaunting their sex lives in front of the kids all fucking day long.

 
If TLC decides (god forbid) to make a new show without Josh, they’d better leave the mother of the year and her disgusting, horny husband out too.  The thought of seeing any of them on my TV ever again makes me want to hurl!

Edited May 29, 2015 by parisprincess

[cocobeans]

 

 

When the Duggar family’s oldest son admitted he had molested and fondled five little girls — including some of his own sisters — when he was 14, it was time for conservative Christians to hold Josh and the Duggar family accountable for their actions.

Most didn’t.

Michael Reagan, son of President Ronald Reagan, wrote a great article addressing Josh and his crimes http://www.cagle.com/2015/05/conservative-christians-miscount/

 

 

Child molesting is not a “mistake” you make when you’re young. It’s a crime against the innocent that should be prosecuted — and one I believe that should have no statute of limitations.

 

He raises some great points about Josh, his parents, TLC, and FRC -- poses the questions that most of us are losing sleep over. 

 

It is a good thing to have people connecting on a very personal level, finding common bonds where once only distance and distrust existed.  How ironic if Smuggar were to bring together liberals and conservatives through their shared disgust of "Duggar"?!

Edited May 29, 2015 by cocobeans

[wanderwoman]

I know it's frowned upon to show someone undergoing mental health care on television; but, there's a simple way to keep this show going it TLC decides it is worth it. And, I believe people would not only watch it, but learn something and do society a big favor.

Most of the vitriol surrounding this scandal was/is about:

A) how this was handled by Jim Bob and Michelle

B) concern for the victims

C) concerns about recidivism in Josh

D) the glossy treatment of the IBLP "advice"

I think TLC should do a VSE and here is what I'd want to see, in order.

1) A segment with Jim Bob and Michelle giving us the 411 on what really happened. They don't have to name victims. I want to know the timing and their thoughts on this"season". Why they did the show claiming transparency if life and faith knowing they were avoiding an elephant? How are they preventing this from recurring?

2) A talking head with just Josh detailing how he got to the point of molesting young girls and some insight into why he went there.

3) I want to see Josh attend a survivors group meeting - because, he and his family need to understand, from a non-religious perspective, how victims feel and the spectrum of emotions and variety of coping mechanisns victims employ to survive.

4) I want the victims evaluated by an unaffiliated, renowned therapist who can privately hear then out. I don't want their faces shown and I would hope it wouldn't be filmed, but I'd like the therapist to assess them.

5) I would like TLC to show us appropriate family therapy and see the middles and littles be given age appropriate information about their rights to their body and "good toycb, bad touch". Mainly, too, I want a licensed therapist or officer to break them into gender groups and educate them on (or undo) the how to report molestation and explain that the victim is never at fault.

5) Using voice disguising and identity protecting technology, allow the victims a chance ti, if they want, confront Josh in the presence of a neutral party with experience in the area.

6) I want to see Josh and Anna obtain therapy and see Josh in a recognized program for sexual offenders. Yes, be was a minor, but hard labor isn't treatment and his parents failed him in getting him appropriate care.

7) An interview with Jim Bob and Michelle that confront them, calmly and logically, with the flaws in their curriculum's "workbook".

TLC has a chance to make a reality show that deals with a real family in crisis. For me, this episode would be the only way back.

[rulesoftravel]

 

Just for giggles can you imagine if the Duggar clan went to a Catholic church and went to confession, I would love to be a fly on the wall.

  Well, the Catholic Church (the Church I grew up in) doesn't have a truly consistent record of punishing child molesters in its own ranks...Just sayin'.

 

 

 

I do not want to see this family on TV in any way ever for the rest of my life.    I want TLC to cancel this show and any spin-offs.   I want them gone.   There is nothing to be gained by anyone.    It's a true shame that real consequences for the parents and the perpetrator did not happen.  It's a crime that the girls and their recovery were ignored.   "Playing doctor," my ass.  The only doctor that Josh was playing was Dr. Huxtable.

Edited May 29, 2015 by rulesoftravel

[Dawn16]

I know it's frowned upon to show someone undergoing mental health care on television; but, there's a simple way to keep this show going it TLC decides it is worth it. And, I believe people would not only watch it, but learn something and do society a big favor.

Most of the vitriol surrounding this scandal was/is about:

A) how this was handled by Jim Bob and Michelle

B) concern for the victims

C) concerns about recidivism in Josh

D) the glossy treatment of the IBLP "advice"

I think TLC should do a VSE and here is what I'd want to see, in order.

1) A segment with Jim Bob and Michelle giving us the 411 on what really happened. They don't have to name victims. I want to know the timing and their thoughts on this"season". Why they did the show claiming transparency if life and faith knowing they were avoiding an elephant? How are they preventing this from recurring?

2) A talking head with just Josh detailing how he got to the point of molesting young girls and some insight into why he went there.

3) I want to see Josh attend a survivors group meeting - because, he and his family need to understand, from a non-religious perspective, how victims feel and the spectrum of emotions and variety of coping mechanisns victims employ to survive.

4) I want the victims evaluated by an unaffiliated, renowned therapist who can privately hear then out. I don't want their faces shown and I would hope it wouldn't be filmed, but I'd like the therapist to assess them.

5) I would like TLC to show us appropriate family therapy and see the middles and littles be given age appropriate information about their rights to their body and "good toycb, bad touch". Mainly, too, I want a licensed therapist or officer to break them into gender groups and educate them on (or undo) the how to report molestation and explain that the victim is never at fault.

5) Using voice disguising and identity protecting technology, allow the victims a chance ti, if they want, confront Josh in the presence of a neutral party with experience in the area.

6) I want to see Josh and Anna obtain therapy and see Josh in a recognized program for sexual offenders. Yes, be was a minor, but hard labor isn't treatment and his parents failed him in getting him appropriate care.

7) An interview with Jim Bob and Michelle that confront them, calmly and logically, with the flaws in their curriculum's "workbook".

TLC has a chance to make a reality show that deals with a real family in crisis. For me, this episode would be the only way back.

I'm not sure if I could be comfortable with viewing therapy in any form.  I wouldn't mind Jim Bob and Michelle telling viewers exactly what they did wrong and what they should have done, but I would be very surprised if they're psychologically capable of doing that.  For TLC to get back into the good graces of angry viewers who feel they likely hid this for a long time, I would like to see a show on molestation that does not mention the Duggars but explains the importance of reporting offenses and protecting victims and teaches that victims are never to blame and should not be pressured to forgive -- basically counteracting all the damage being done by fans online.  Give phone numbers to call for help.  Don't sensationalize and do hire experts who are serious and not media personalities like Dr. Phil. 

[AuntieDiane6]

 

 

When you have a skeleton this huge hiding in your closet why would you think going on reality TV is a good idea?! My mind is seriously stumped by that.

Did they really, truly think that the public would never find out about this?

 

But you could say that about every celebrity criminal or cheating husband, from Bill Clinton to Bill Cosby.

 

 

JimBob's net worth is estimated to be around $3.5 million.  That is not a lot of money to take care of 30 people (and counting) forever.  Because none of the children have any prospects for making money in the future.  I don't think JimBob's model is sustainable.  Not every one of those kids can work for him forever and have a baby every year.  Something's gotta give. IMO.

 

It's been interesting to see what's happened to other "shamed" evangelicals, from Ted Haggard to Tammy Faye Baker.  They never did find another occupation and ended up trying to preach to ever smaller congregations.

 

As for other reality stars now gone, some have been quite upset at the loss of stardom.  Andy Cohen once recalled an unnamed "Real Housewife" whose husband told him, after his wife was "fired," "You shouldn't have expected the filming of YOUR lives to go on forever. (paraphrased)"

[Cherrio]

I know it's frowned upon to show someone undergoing mental health care on television; but, there's a simple way to keep this show going it TLC decides it is worth it. And, I believe people would not only watch it, but learn something and do society a big favor.

Most of the vitriol surrounding this scandal was/is about:

A) how this was handled by Jim Bob and Michelle

B) concern for the victims

C) concerns about recidivism in Josh

D) the glossy treatment of the IBLP "advice"

I think TLC should do a VSE and here is what I'd want to see, in order.

1) A segment with Jim Bob and Michelle giving us the 411 on what really happened. They don't have to name victims. I want to know the timing and their thoughts on this"season". Why they did the show claiming transparency if life and faith knowing they were avoiding an elephant? How are they preventing this from recurring?

2) A talking head with just Josh detailing how he got to the point of molesting young girls and some insight into why he went there.

3) I want to see Josh attend a survivors group meeting - because, he and his family need to understand, from a non-religious perspective, how victims feel and the spectrum of emotions and variety of coping mechanisns victims employ to survive.

4) I want the victims evaluated by an unaffiliated, renowned therapist who can privately hear then out. I don't want their faces shown and I would hope it wouldn't be filmed, but I'd like the therapist to assess them.

5) I would like TLC to show us appropriate family therapy and see the middles and littles be given age appropriate information about their rights to their body and "good toycb, bad touch". Mainly, too, I want a licensed therapist or officer to break them into gender groups and educate them on (or undo) the how to report molestation and explain that the victim is never at fault.

5) Using voice disguising and identity protecting technology, allow the victims a chance ti, if they want, confront Josh in the presence of a neutral party with experience in the area.

6) I want to see Josh and Anna obtain therapy and see Josh in a recognized program for sexual offenders. Yes, be was a minor, but hard labor isn't treatment and his parents failed him in getting him appropriate care.

7) An interview with Jim Bob and Michelle that confront them, calmly and logically, with the flaws in their curriculum's "workbook".

TLC has a chance to make a reality show that deals with a real family in crisis. For me, this episode would be the only way back.

This would never happen for reasons too numerous to list.

[galax-arena]

Did they really, truly think that the public would never find out about this?

Honestly, considering the amount of ego that I suspect often go hand-in-hand with the type of person who seeks this sort of thing... probably. That much hubris can be blinding. 

[rulesoftravel]

 

But you could say that about every celebrity criminal or cheating husband, from Bill Clinton to Bill Cosby.

  Bill Cosby-drugging rapist.

  Bill Clinton-cheating husband    

 

IMO, should not be used in the same sentence.

 

Only Bill Cosby and Josh Duggar waited until their victims were not awake and aware.

[Lemur]

It's been interesting to see what's happened to other "shamed" evangelicals, from Ted Haggard to Tammy Faye Baker.  They never did find another occupation and ended up trying to preach to ever smaller congregations.

 

I believe we need to start writing a pitch for a new reality show ... Evangelical Bootcamp/Rehab/Journey of the Heart.

 

No, wait, this is so sick even I can't get behind it.

[Aethera]

Let's not get onto a tangent about either Bill or their respective crimes/sins, please. There are other places to discuss them. :)

[zenme]

Knowing what we know now it's hard not to look back at some of the episodes and connect the dots, or think about how inappropriate, appalling, or awkward a scene was.  I always remember some of Smuggar's wedding episode.  The scene where Jimbo is giving Smuggar that book on how to perform the act of sex and when Smuggar makes a joke about his believing he could figure out how to "do it."   Smuggar makes the joke, and there is a split second where Jimbo has this look on his face like he wants to smack him about the head.  Then Jimbo composes himself  for the cameras, and they share a laugh about legos.  At the time, I thought Jimbo was a little ticked because he was trying to be serious and Smuggar was blowing him off and laughing, but now I think he thought about what kind of animal he'd raised, and knowing that he'd had his hands on the girls. 

[wanderwoman]

Please don't misunderstand me- I don't think my scenario/episode is likely to happen or even the best way. I was just responding to those who ask what *I* need to think continuing the show is reasonable. I think they should eat crow, find real jobs, and go to counselling while never filming another episode. But, I would watch show I outlined above as a swan song.

Knowing what we know now it's hard not to look back at some of the episodes and connect the dots, or think about how inappropriate, appalling, or awkward a scene was.  I always remember some of Smuggar's wedding episode.  The scene where Jimbo is giving Smuggar that book on how to perform the act of sex and when Smuggar makes a joke about his believing he could figure out how to "do it."   Smuggar makes the joke, and there is a split second where Jimbo has this look on his face like he wants to smack him about the head.  Then Jimbo composes himself  for the cameras, and they share a laugh about legos.  At the time, I thought Jimbo was a little ticked because he was trying to be serious and Smuggar was blowing him off and laughing, but now I think he thought about what kind of animal he'd raised, and knowing that he'd had his hands on the girls.

Very, very early on, I shared a similar disgust for that scene in particular. How contrived can you get when you approach a repeat child molester with a book about female anatomy an hour before the wedding?

[Aja]

 

Knowing what we know now it's hard not to look back at some of the episodes and connect the dots, or think about how inappropriate, appalling, or awkward a scene was.

In retrospect this seems to apply to almost every interaction between Josh and his siblings that I can remember. I always had the distinct impression that Josh was intensely disliked. The rumors WERE there, but they were totally unsubstantiated so I didn't give them any credence. To be honest, Josh's long-time moniker on these forums has been Smuggar for a reason. He's a smarmy, pompous car salesman. The moralizing, the inane buzzwords. Also, I suspected that, as the eldest and also a BOY, he was probably favored and worshiped second only to Jim Bob in that household. But now that the light switch has been flipped on, there's no ambiguity to those scenes whatsoever anymore.

[zenme]

In retrospect this seems to apply to almost every interaction between Josh and his siblings that I can remember. I always had the distinct impression that Josh was intensely disliked.

 

I never really thought that Jessa and Jinger cared for Anna too much either, and I actually think that she has any kind of relationship with Jana and Jill because they are about the same age.  There is more squealing when the Bates girls see the Duggar girls than when they see Anna.  What must they think of woman that found their molester attractive?

Edited May 29, 2015 by zenme

[Showthyme]

It's terrible but the Duggars will survive this scandal much like Jimmy Saggart, Jim Bakker, and others. There is an audience. They may not have the same number of followers or be on a nationally known network but appearance fees and lesser platforms will keep them nicely afloat. I don' t see any of the adult Duggars taking an entry-level job to pay the bills.

I would like the victims to file a civil lawsuit against the perpetrator and bystanders so they would not have to be seen smiling at photo ops with their abusers. It is disgusting.

Shame on you TLC for not taking swift action and canceling this show.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Showthyme

[Granny58]

I'll bet if you asked Jim Bob, he would say Josh didn't commit incest, he made a "mistake." They REALLY don't get it.

NOT a defense of Boob, but to me the incest statement was specifically referring to intercourse (since it was about abortion) and there has been no indication that Josh did that.  

[General Days]

The thing that makes this hinky to me is that the cancellation of the Oprah appearance.  TLC would of known the reason why.     Also, if I am not mistaken, TLC and OWN (oprah) are both part of Discovery Communications.

 

 

I find myself amused that TLC  is "acting" like it didn't know.  Oprah Winfrey knows, but TLC doesn't.  Oprah Winfrey cancels the appearance on her show, but TLC doesn't know why.  Please. They're only shocked because everyone knows now.    

Oprah's daily talk show, The Oprah Winfrey Show, aired from 1986 through 2011.  That's the show on which the Duggars were scheduled to appear, back in 2006. It was produced by Oprah's own production company, Harpo, and distributed by King World Productions, from 1986 to 2007. King World was then folded into Viacom/CBS, which distributed The Oprah Winfrey Show, until it ended in 2011.

 

The Oprah Winfrey Show was not produced or distributed by The Oprah Winfrey Network (OWN). OWN is a 50/50 collaboration between Discovery Communications (which owns TLC) and Harpo Productions. OWN was not launched until January, 2011.

 

tl;dr:

 

Discovery Communications wasn't a producer or distributor of the producer of the Oprah vehicle on which the Duggars were scheduled to appear, in 2006. Discovery (and TLC) would not have been privy to Harpo getting the email about the Duggars, and forwarding it to law enforcement or Child Protective Services.

 

 

Please don't misunderstand me- I don't think my scenario/episode is likely to happen or even the best way. I was just responding to those who ask what *I* need to think continuing the show is reasonable. I think they should eat crow, find real jobs, and go to counselling while never filming another episode. But, I would watch show I outlined above as a swan song.

 

 

I understood what you were getting at, but the very act of filming therapy, would alter the process. The participants would be more guarded, just because of the crew's presence, never mind the idea that their therapy sessions would then be shown to a national audience. It would end up being fake, less helpful therapy, even if all the participants had the purest of intentions. I'm just thinking about it. There are things I would never say about my family to the public, that I could (and in the Duggars' cases might need to) address with a therapist.

 

As I clicked on yet another article that quoted Josh's statement from last week, I noticed something that I had not really seen before.  Josh states that "I confessed to my parents"  NO, he didn't confess, one of the girls went to the parents, THEN he told them what happened, which may or may not have been 100% factual.

 

I realize this is just semantics, but he leads people to believe that he, overcome with remorse, went to confess to JB and Michelle.  Because the statement has to paint him in the best light possible, and victims be damned.

 

 

According the Gawker timeline, Josh did confess to his parents, before the majority of his targets went to their parents. Gawker could be wrong, granted, but here's what is reported, there:

 

According to the police report released by InTouch, Josh’s father Jim Bob (referred to in the report as “James”) first learned of Josh’s behavior in March 2002, when one victim approached Jim Bob and said that Josh touched her breasts and genitals while she slept.

 

Jim Bob appears not to have acted on the accusation. In July 2002, Josh, then 14 years old, admitted to the behavior to his father, prompting Jim Bob to “discipline” Josh but not report the incident to the authorities.

 

In March 2003, according to the report, Josh fondled a victim while he read a book to her. Jim Bob was made aware of this and several more accusations—victims accused Josh of touching their breasts and genitals while they slept, and sometimes while they were awake.

 

 

 

Full context:  http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269

[Granny58]

Ugh. The Roloff's have been "so over" for awhile now. Matt and Amy haven't tolerated each other's presence in YEARS. TLC must have been pretty desperate (and Jen Arnold couldn't get off work).

 

 

 

 

What is it with us only children and large family curiosity? Wanting what we never had? When I was a kid, I loved a book called I Should Have Seen it Coming When the Rabbit Died. The author, Teresa Bloomingdale, was a devoted Catholic who "practiced" rhythm method birth control (but never actually perfected it) and ended up with 12 kids.  It was written in an Erma Bombeck style, with humor.  I think that I still have the paperback in a box somewhere. 

 

 

 

 

Maybe not. If one of the girls breaks free and decides to spill, THAT will be on the cover, for sure. Oh, to dream. 

Thank you!  Book put on my Amazon wish list!

[Cherrio]

"Oprah's daily talk show, The Oprah Winfrey Show, aired from 1986 through 2011.  That's the show on which the Duggars were scheduled to appear, back in 2006. It was produced by Oprah's own production company, Harpo, and distributed by King World Productions, from 1986 to 2007. King World was then folded into Viacom/CBS, which distributed The Oprah Winfrey Show, until it ended in 2011."

 

Yes, you are right. I was thinking in present day and forgot about the timeline. Thanks for correcting me.  :)

[HumblePi]

My husband came in to where I was watching TV and said "hey, your Duggar's are on the Dr. Drew show", he knows that I've been following this story. Dr. Drew and his 3 guests were all astounded by the allegations of sexual molestation. They showed a clip from 2013 when Josh appeared on an Evangelist television show. Josh talks about being away at a Christian ministry for months, and away from his parents.This is where he was sent, age 15, to deal with the sexual abuse. "And I never looked back". Dr. Drew was outraged at this video. Dr. Drew's concerns were all for the children.

 

https://youtu.be/CRrllCon-pM?t=19m13s

 

Erin Merryn spoke to Dr. Drew from a remote camera. Erin is an American writer and activist from Schaumburg, Illinois who advocates the prevention of child sexual abuse. Beginning in 2010, she launched a campaign to pass a law that would mandate a sexual abuse prevention curriculum in schools, called Erin's Law, and has since seen it successfully passed in several states. In 2014, she was invited by the Duggar's themselves to come to their home to speak to their children about sexual abuse. The Duggar's were attending a child abuse conference where she was speaking. She said went to the Duggar's home and there were 9 kids home, the little ones. The home was clean, the kids were the most well behaved and respectful kids she ever met. The children were very receptive to what she was saying, they were attentive and asked questions. All the children there happened to be all the younger children, the older girls weren't there, they had been sent away to a camp.

 

Dr. Drew showed an old video of Joy covering up part of the screen of a television that three of the boys were watching. She was blocking their 'immodest dress' from their eyes. She said she was covering up what the boys shouldn't see because some of the women had 'low-cuts'. When asked why can't the boy see that? Joy thought for a while, then said "um...because it's bad".  They also had a clip from a few years ago when they spoke with Jana. She said that when they're all walking past a girl that was immodestly dressed, they called out a code word 'Nike' at which point the boys had to lower their eyes and not look until they passed the girl.

Edited May 29, 2015 by HumblePi

[Granny58]

I totally agree. When they first signed on, I'm sure they did not assume the show would last this many years. A normal person would have invested that money. Jb might act stupid but i don't think he's stupid about money. They will be fine living off of that money for awhile. And shame on them if they never thought about the possibility of cancellation & didn't think of a plan b.

a poster above said they may have first thought it a good way to espouse Gothardism....but I think it was even more fundamental (pun!) than that.  The first special would simply have meant some money and with a large family who wouldn't want that?  And then another special!  Yippee, puts new tires on the car, etc.  And it  skyrocketed from there.  

[JoanArc]

 

The home was clean, the kids were the most well behaved and respectful kids she ever met. The children were very receptive to what she was saying, they were attentive and asked questions. All the children there happened to be all the younger children, the older girls weren't there, they had been sent away to a camp.

Goddamn it! I posted about Erin Merryn a few days ago, but hadn't heard this story. This makes me hate Jim Bob and Michelle EVEN MORE.

[NextIteration]

Michael Reagan, son of President Ronald Reagan, wrote a great article addressing Josh and his crimes http://www.cagle.com/2015/05/conservative-christians-miscount/

 

Wow, he really went there.  

[General Days]

 

Yes, you are right. I was thinking in present day and forgot about the timeline. Thanks for correcting me.  :)

 

No problem. I've seen this all over the web (at least on any site that isn't white washing the past). It's hard to remember that Oprah became Queen of the World in steps, because it seems like she always should have ruled the whole kit and caboodle.

The only reason I had the dates down, is because I looked it up. I know Oprah's personal history, and was pretty sure, because she's Oprah, that she wouldn't have knowingly allowed anyone to look the other way, while there was a question of children being molested. I was relieved to see that it would be five years after Harpo got the email, that she went into business with Discovery. I believe Harpo took all the right steps, back in 2006. They got a tip, they turned it over to the authorities, and they canceled the Duggars' appearance.

Whether or not Discovery can claim total ignorance is another question -- one I don't expect an answer to, unless someone writes a tell-all, some day, or someone at Discovery/TLC blows the whistle. It seems like Discovery probably should have known that the Duggars' spot on The Oprah Winfrey Show was canceled, but if X Kids & Counting wasn't in production at the time, and/or if Discovery didn't arrange for the appearance, I'm not sure Discovery must have have known, or known why. 

Had I been a Harpo exec., canceling the appearance of a family I'd just dropped a dime on, I wouldn't tell that family I'd just gotten information about their son molesting their daughters. It would come down to a "scheduling conflict," or something else vague. Still, I wonder how quickly the Duggars started putting 2 and 2 together.

I've seen something spoken of a few different ways. Does anyone know if the Duggars did actually tape an episode of Oprah, and then it never aired? There were lots of supposed leaks at the time, about the contents of the episode (like the girls getting offered scholarships and such), but that's just stuff on message boards. It seems to me that in articles I've read, Harpo canceled the episode outright (i.e. didn't tape anything), but sometimes, stuff like that just gets glossed over during lazy reporting. I know it never aired, but did any of it get taped?

 

Edited May 29, 2015 by General Days

[3 is enough]

You would think that with everything going on now, that if there had been a taping, one of the hundreds of audience members would come forward and say "I was there, and this is what I saw."  No accounts leads me to believe there was no taped episode.

[JoanArc]

You would think that with everything going on now, that if there had been a taping, one of the hundreds of audience members would come forward and say "I was there, and this is what I saw."  No accounts leads me to believe there was no taped episode.

We've seen Oprah's legal team was on the ball. The studio audience might have to sign NDA's.

[Fuzzysox]

My husband came in to where I was watching TV and said "hey, your Duggar's are on the Dr. Drew show", he knows that I've been following this story. Dr. Drew and his 3 guests were all astounded by the allegations of sexual molestation. They showed a clip from 2013 when Josh appeared on an Evangelist television show. Josh talks about being away at a Christian ministry for months, and away from his parents.This is where he was sent, age 15, to deal with the sexual abuse. "And I never looked back". Dr. Drew was outraged at this video. Dr. Drew's concerns were all for the children.
 
https://youtu.be/CRrllCon-pM?t=19m13s
 
Erin Merryn spoke to Dr. Drew from a remote camera. Erin is an American writer and activist from Schaumburg, Illinois who advocates the prevention of child sexual abuse. Beginning in 2010, she launched a campaign to pass a law that would mandate a sexual abuse prevention curriculum in schools, called Erin's Law, and has since seen it successfully passed in several states. In 2014, she was invited by the Duggar's themselves to come to their home to speak to their children about sexual abuse. The Duggar's were attending a child abuse conference where she was speaking. She said went to the Duggar's home and there were 9 kids home, the little ones. The home was clean, the kids were the most well behaved and respectful kids she ever met. The children were very receptive to what she was saying, they were attentive and asked questions. All the children there happened to be all the younger children, the older girls weren't there, they had been sent away to a camp.
 
Dr. Drew showed an old video of Joy covering up part of the screen of a television that three of the boys were watching. She was blocking their 'immodest dress' from their eyes. She said she was covering up what the boys shouldn't see because some of the women had 'low-cuts'. When asked why can't the boy see that? Joy thought for a while, then said "um...because it's bad".  They also had a clip from a few years ago when they spoke with Jana. She said that when they're all walking past a girl that was immodestly dressed, they called out a code word 'Nike' at which point the boys had to lower their eyes and not look until they passed the girl.

I watched it too. Strange that Erin said the kids were well behaved? Even stranger that they invited her to talk in light of what had already happened. Edited May 29, 2015 by aethera
fixed broken quotes :)

[Sew Sumi]

I challenge the veracity of parts of this account. No way either Jill or Jessa went to a "camp" last year. Jill was engaged, then married. Both were played out on TV; she didn't go anywhere during this time. Same goes for Jessa. She was present for all filming last year, unlike periods when both Josiah and Joe were missing. Her narrative was driving the show, so no way they sent her off anywhere. Jana, Joy and Jinger may have gone somewhere, but it would have had to have been between Jill's wedding and Jessa's engagement. There is no other time during the year they could have gone. Obviously, Jill was married and therefore not eligible for Journey to the Heart any longer. And again, Jessa was Instagramming up a storm last summer, so no, she didn't go anywhere. 

 

edited to add: The girls were probably out filming either a Jill or Jessa engagement segment, but the Duggars would never admit that. I think that's the simple solution here. :)

Edited May 29, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[JoanArc]

I challenge the veracity of parts of this account.

 

FWIW, no older girls pictured. The 'camp' part was probably a lie. They could've been sent elsewhere that day for the time Erin was there. This wasn't on the show. Since when does this family tell the truth? They just didn't want the oldest kids hearing what Erin had to say.

Edited May 29, 2015 by JoanArc

[Fuzzysox]

Or they use the away at camp simply as an excuse. Didn't a poster here say that she called the duggar house and Michelle answered and said John David was away at camp?

Edited May 29, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[HumblePi]

I watched it too. Strange that Erin said the kids were well behaved? Even stranger that they invited her to talk in light of what had already happened.

My take on this is that since it was 2014 and the older girls were already either married like Jill or about to be like Jessa that they wanted to bring the warnings and the messages that Erin carried to the younger children. I guess that Michelle and Jim Bob weren't comfortable speaking to their kids about siblings sexually molesting other siblings. I can understand why. I thought it was a definite indication since they requested her presence inside their own home, that they had some fears in the back of their minds that it wouldn't be impossible that other abuses could possibly occur within their home.

Edited May 29, 2015 by HumblePi

[BitterApple]

Are those Styrofoam plates with slices of cheese on them?! Seriously?! They don't have a proper tray to serve hors d'oeuvres to their guests? Tacky, tacky, tacky.

[Bella]

Thread drift keeps happening, which is understandable. But it would be great if people could get better oriented to posting their thoughts in the right threads.

 

Thanks!

[GEML]

It might also be that the older girls didn't want to hear. They would have had internet access at this point. They would have known who she was. They might have said, "Look, we aren't going to make a big deal about it, but we don't have to sit in the room and listen to someone and pretend it never happened, either." To be honest, I can see Jim Bob and Michelle respecting that boundary.

[NEGirl]

Bitter Apple - Yes, that is styrofoam plates - a class act all the way.

GEML - I agree - why did the older girls need to hear her, they already experienced it and knew their parents did nothing to protect them. The fact Erin came to their home is quite telling - obviously Boob and J'Chelle had concerns it could happen again.

[Bella]

We're not going to talk about the Hastert situation in this thread. If it's discussed at all in this forum (and we quite frankly prefer but do not require that it go somewhere else), it would go into the Small Talk thread.

 

This is the Josh and Anna thread.

 

Thanks!

[Angeltoes]

I don't believe that Jim Bob is the highest authority in that house. I gurantee that everything and everybody is ruled by Michelle. Can totally see her telling the girls that what happened to them wasn't that big a deal. We never see any genuine affection towards her from the girls because there is no bigger loss of trust in this world than a parent who does not protect you and chooses to dismiss your needs.

I rewatched the mini-golf scene on youtube because I didn't really pay much attention when I first saw the show. Dear Lord, get a room.

[JenCarroll]

If Josh touched Holy water it would be like when the wicked witch was doused with water, I'm melting!!!

Dropping a house on him might be more expedient.

[Happyfatchick]

Disagree. Until and unless the girls leave the strictures of their extreme belief system, they have control over NOTHING. As an escapee of fundamental Christianity, there is no way to overemphasize how thoroughly locked-in they are. Without a massive paradigm shift, they will do what the men in their lives tell them to do. If you see them bringing a lawsuit now, it will be because that's what they were instructed to do.

This. this is so true. When all this broke, I would have so so much liked to think at least ONE of those kids thought this "distraction" might be a zip line out of there. Even the married ones - maybe they would take at least a teeny tiny step toward the exit. In reality, I'm sure there were buckets and buckets of tears, and then all eyes were in Daddy Duggar asking, "what do we do?" They don't know anything else.

Josh does, though. He's lived in the real world. I don't know exactly what Anna's exposure was to real life - it always seemed they were still fairly sequestered. Josh could have been the side stepper - and now, not so much. He "could", conceivably have led some of the others into a less sheltered life. Now that he's been exposed, he's going right back to Daddy Duggar to say, "what do we do?"

I'm not sure what will happen in the interim, but ultimately, Josh will go public, say what he has to say, and then he will go full-on into a speaking gig where he will support his family from all the coverup, sins and molestation. There's nothing, NOTHING religious people like to hear more than a reformation story. Hide and watch. This will happen. There will be hecklers, and this too shall make news.

The only kink to his public speaking life after the fall is going to be the older girls, who would also be able to support families with speaking tours to religious groups. The next best thing to a reformation story is a abusive/forgave my abuser story. Logistically, I'm not sure these can happen concurrently and I'm guessing the sisters have to take a back seat to Josh's pony show (because that will be JB's edict). I'm not sure Josh and sisters ever will be on a platform together; that may be just too much for anyone to get past. But maybe. One or more of those kids will have a healthy speaking life for years to come.

No way is anybody breaking the Duggar mold over this. They will come out United, bet on it.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Happyfatchick