Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[charmed1]

Rumor had it that Jim Bob insisted on complete control of the interview including what questions could be asked and the option to edit out anything he didn't like.

Ha!! I can picture every Harpo producer laughing in his face. And I can see Oprah sitting in hair and make up, being notified of this fool's demands and letting out the biggest laugh ever. Like "do you know who I am, Cletus?"

[AnJen]

 

 

I have to get this off my chest. I am not sure who will agree with me, but I'm going to say it anyway (and maybe blog about it because this is the 21st century and I CAN). Firstly, the whole thing is reprehensible, but what I am really upset by is the number of uber liberals who are pretty much happy this is happening. And this is coming from me, who is an uber liberal.

Some of my friends are offended by their religion in general, so they are pretty much excited that they are getting the boot and posting gleefully about how they get what they deserve and how they don't understand how I ever watched the show (as a woman, they asked, how could I watch a family that devalues women?) and that they are sooo happy that these "bigots" get their comeuppance. I get that people are upset about their rallying against gay rights, but they are an incredibly right-wing Christian family. Did they think they were going to somehow suddenly support gay rights? People have also been "offended" all over my newsfeed about some of the dumb things Jessa has said (i.e. athiests don't exist, etc.)...but WHAT DO THEY THINK she is going to say?!

I feel most sorry for the girls, because they cannot hide their name redactions. The rest of the kids also have had the rug pulled out from under them as the gravy trian has suddenly (or most probably) stopped...and I can't imagine the guilt the girls must feel (hopefully they don't, but growing up in that environment, it is up in the air). They've lost a lot in a matter of days and been publicly outed as victims when they may not have wanted to be. And people are celebrating this because they are right wing Christians and they've always "found them creepy"?!  One of my friends wrote, "I feel positively gleeful that this family and their nasty patriarchal religion are being shown the door" and "I'm starting to wonder if you really understand how vile and hurtful their beliefs are, or if you still think they're just a cute, wacky tv family."

 

I'm not sure what blogs or forums you follow, but I'm a regular reader over at Gawker/Jezebel, and the general consensus in the comments is the same as this forum; people feel for the girls, are pissed as hell at JimBob, Michelle, and Josh, and are worried about the littles. The main thing people are expressing gladness over is that the underside of this family's belief is being exposed, and I would agree with that. 

 

For them to have been on tv for nearly ten years now, on the cover of People magazine, etc. and to be held up as this shining example of a perfect family when they believe that women are inherently sinful (the Eve thing) and should be subordinate to men, and believe that men can't control their own urges, that rape is a woman's fault, that daughters and wives should be subservient, that everyone who doesn't follow their beliefs is not only evil but lesser...of course people are happy to see that exposed! 

 

It's hard to know all of the things about the Duggars that we here on the boards have pretty much always known - about the blanket training, the women-shaming, the Gothard/ATI stuff, the weird sexual rules (no dancing, only side hugs even with family members, etc)...it's hard to know all of the things that goes on with these people that the show doesn't address and to see how problematic it is and to have the media and people who watch the show be so admiring of this family. So yeah, I completely understand why people are happy or relieved to see them and their beliefs being exposed.

 

I don't see how it's offensive that people are calling the Duggars bigots, either...they are bigots. They refuse to associate with anyone who isn't like them. They think gays are evil, they accuse transgender women of being child molesters, they think women who get pregnant outside of marriage are sluts and should be demonized as such, they're against abortion and yet also against any type of program that would aid mothers to keep a baby. They are incredibly intolerant of those with other lifestyles or opinions to their own. That's the very definition of a bigot. Have the kids been raised to be this way? Yes. But they've also had a lot more life experience out in the "real world" than other fundamentalist families, and the kids still all parrot what they've been taught. I would argue that the majority of them probably believe it, not just repeat it. 

 

It's not impossible to feel happy that they're being exposed for exactly who they are, and not how they've portrayed themselves for years; that doesn't mean being unsympathetic to what the girls have gone and are still going through. Those aren't mutually exclusive feelings. 

[BitterApple]

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment. For all we know, the girls truly have forgiven and want to forget. If the daughters are fully on board with continuing the show I don't have a problem with it.

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

Edited May 27, 2015 by BitterApple

[OhioMom]

I can't keep up!  I just read through 25 pages of posts.  Never skip around on this forum -- it leads to mass confusion. Which brings me to my second point: I'm not as idiotic as some of my previous posts may have made me seem. :)

[CherryAmes]

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

 

I'm not seeing that. I think the TV news has been pretty restrained IMO and even the print coverage has been pretty fair in that they seem to bend over backwards to make sure that the Duggar supporters are getting a voice.  The story is getting attention no question but the mainstream media, at least, has bigger fish to fry than the Duggars.  Which in itself may be a bit of a blow to Jim Bob and Michelle :).

[Boton]

Well, even though I think it would bore me to tears, I'd watch the heck out of an "Anna and the girls" oriented show, predicated on Anna leaving Josh and moving somewhere with her sisters-in-law or something similar.  One of the many, many things that bothers me about this situation is that Anna appears to think that it's some kind of triumph to stay with your husband, no matter what he does.  

 

Staying with your husband in spite of the fact that he's picked up 40 pounds or developed a receding hairline and a bad case of ED is a triumph of valuing a long-standing marriage. Staying with your husband in spite of the fact that he's a child molester and you have four kids is a triumph of stupidity and lack of pattern recognition ability.

[Skyline]

Update from InTouch Weekly

www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-molestation-case-another-bombshell-revealed-josh-sued-the-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

Edited May 27, 2015 by Skyline

[CofCinci]

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment.

Major lifestyle adjustment for the younger batch of children especially. Miracle Josie has American Girl DollS. $100 dolls. More than one. Poor kid isn't going to get the 2016 Girl of the Year now. Mission trips are most likely the first to go.

[MMLEsq]

I don't think this forum is going away any time soon. More revelations will happen, more info will trickle out, etc.

 

[stats about specific threads....]

 

Anyway, I am awaiting more news related specifically to Josh and the other Duggars, but I think the next wave will involve TLC and the sponsors.

And the next wave after that could be when Anna gives birth.  I wouldn't be surprised if, when it happens, the news is released via one of the sister's SM accounts.

 

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment. For all we know, the girls truly have forgiven and want to forget. If the daughters are fully on board with continuing the show I don't have a problem with it.

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

I could see a "Brady Brides"-type show developing.  Focusing on the older girls and possibly, to some extent, in the case of Jana, Jinger and JoyAnna, them doing things out and about with their buddy groups, so that some of the younger siblings can be featured.

[Oldernowiser]

And the next wave after that could be when Anna gives birth.  I wouldn't be surprised if, when it happens, the news is released via one of the sister's SM accounts.

 

I could see a "Brady Brides"-type show developing.  Focusing on the older girls and possibly, to some extent, in the case of Jana, Jinger and JoyAnna, them doing things out and about with their buddy groups, so that some of the younger siblings can be featured.

How do they possibly do spin-offs with any of the minor children without continuing to enrich their parents? For that matter, given the extent of the mind control, even a spin-off with the adult children is going straight into Jim Bob's coffers. I just don't see any of them as independent enough to stand up for themselves.

The Duggars need to go away. If they're half as frugal as they've boasted about, they should have more than enough put away for all of them to live quite nicely.

But celebrity is a drug...abrupt withdrawal can be ugly.

[Aja]

Moreso than seeing any of the girls participating in another reality show, I'd love it if at least one of them had some critical thinking suddenly kick in and take over. They've been around the TLC crew and 'heathens' for a good long while now--I bet at least one of them might be questioning, at least somewhere in her mind. "Gee, they seem nice to me and they don't molest kids, maybe the heathen path is better." Not that you either have to be a drooling Gothard zombie or a Satanist, of course. But they can learn all about that, too. I just want to scream at Jana to run. Enough is enough! You don't need a damn husband to escort you out the door, Jana can escort Jana out the door...AND WHEREVER SHE WANTS TO GO AFTER THAT. She's so traumatized and she probably worries that her little siblings won't be taken care of as well without her there. It's hard to grow up brainwashed and overcome it, I know this, I know it's like a death of the person you were. But oh, the other side is glorious. I wish with all my heart they'll know that one day.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Aja

[MMLEsq]

How do they possibly do spin-offs with any of the minor children without continuing to enrich their parents? For that matter, given the extent of the mind control, even a spin-off with the adult children is going straight into Jim Bob's coffers. I just don't see any of them as independent enough to stand up for themselves.

The Duggars need to go away. If they're half as frugal as they've boasted about, they should have more than enough put away for all of them to live quite nicely.

But celebrity is a drug...abrupt withdrawal can be ugly.

I'm more concerned that the older girls have a chance to move forward and rebuild their lives than I am that the parents might inadvertently be enriched.  William Blackstone, who wrote a series of commentaries on the laws in England in the 18th century, wrote:  “Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."  That thought continues to this day, which is why defendants get the benefit of hearsay and other evidence rules and sometimes are found not guilty even if public opinion is that they're 100% guilty.  In this case, I'd rather see two (JimBob and Michelle) "guilty" people escape, than have the remaining 18 kids suffer.  JMHO.

[Oldernowiser]

I see your point, but as long as the parents are still in charge, is there any realistic chance that the older girls will rebuild their lives? Even if somehow the parents are banned from the set of a spin-off, I don't see them butting out gracefully. If anything, their scrutiny and control might become more intense, not less. They're not above being jealous of their children, especially Michelle.

[JoanArc]

I'd like someone to ask Jim Bob how his kids can work for 10 years, their entire lives for some of them, and not have so much as a penny set aside*. I think we'd all feel better knowing each child and adult has thousands of dollars tucked away for a rainy day they have sole control over.

 

Advertisers are dropping left and right, and will be the death of 19kac. I don't think they'd want their names associated with a sequel show. The name Duggar is just too radioactive.

 

*We don't know this for sure, but play the odds.

[Maizie131]

I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on why the hell it's taking TLC so long to cancel this show. 

[NextIteration]

Update from InTouch Weekly

www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-molestation-case-another-bombshell-revealed-josh-sued-the-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

 

Sure takes the media a hell of a long time to catch up with this group and FreeJinger!

 

@Maizie131:

 

 

I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on why the hell it's taking TLC so long to cancel this show.

 

Waiting for a Hail Mary... heh.  (Hoping and praying that the money train continues, somehow, some way.)

Edited May 27, 2015 by NextIteration

[BitterApple]

There's always a knee jerk reaction on behalf of advertisers to drop sponsorship when a scandal breaks out, but they may come back once the dust settles. If the Duggars are cancelled on TLC it doesn't mean they won't get picked up by another network. Maybe I'm too cynical but I just don't think there will be long term outrage over this. In a few months the Palace will release new photos of Princess Charlotte or Kylie Jenner will announce she's knocked up and the Duggars will be yesterday's news.

[JoanArc]

I don't think any network in their right mind would pick up 19 kids.

 

 

the Duggars will be yesterday's news.

Of course. That's what would've happened all along, but this scandal is accelerating it. They were always doomed to going back to normal life. In 10 years no one will know who they are, except maybe as a punchline.

[charmed1]

The Duggar girls do not need this show to be free. In my opinion, they can shine, spread their wings and be free much easier without cameras following them around now that their abuse has come out.

I agree wholeheartedly and said as much in the other thread regarding all the children.

[Janet Snakehole]

I am also really doubtful that the show will be cancelled.I want it to, don't get me wrong, but I think the Duggars still have a lot of support out there. I think TLC is laying low on this and waiting it out. I don't think Josh will be back but I think the show will eventually be back in some form.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Janet Snakehole

[Literata]

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment. For all we know, the girls truly have forgiven and want to forget. If the daughters are fully on board with continuing the show I don't have a problem with it.

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

I don't agree, but I would imagine the Duggars have felt this way all along -- that they're being unfairly targeted, probably because of their faith. I would guess that's what they're conveying to the younger kids as well, and comparing Josh to Job in the bible. Oh, to be a fly on the TTH wall.

[NextIteration]

Maybe the FIFA scandal will knock it off the top ten list of scandals.

 

I don't think so though, I don't think there is any coming back.  Along with deep sympathy for the victims, there is too much political avarice and now shock about just how awful the connected organizations are (Gothard, ITA, Vision Forum Quiverfull).  The movement of the nation is against them when it comes to LGBTQ issues and at some point, (should have happened, don't understand why it hasn't yet) there is going to be a huge backlash movement against the limiting legislation around female reproductive rights.

[b2H]

The girls would never be able to break free. They have no idea as to how to do the critical thinking that real life outside the bubble would require. They would probably need full de-programming to even start.

[AmandaPanda]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much real-world support the Duggars have. If TLC can't sell ad space during the show, they can't afford to continue it. As long as sponsors keep dropping like flies, it's the end. TLC is definitely analyzing all their ad numbers and seeing if they can afford to continue the show. It's their number one show, so they're certainly not going to make this decision lightly. 

[Churchhoney]

Moreso than seeing any of the girls participating in another reality show, I'd love it if at least one of them had some critical thinking suddenly kick in and take over. They've been around the TLC crew and 'heathens' for a good long while now--I bet at least one of them might be questioning, at least somewhere in her mind. "Gee, they seem nice to me and they don't molest kids, maybe the heathen path is better." Not that you either have to be a drooling Gothard zombie or a Satanist, of course. But they can learn all about that, too. I just want to scream at Jana to run. Enough is enough! You don't need a damn husband to escort you out the door, Jana can escort Jana out the door...AND WHEREVER SHE WANTS TO GO AFTER THAT. She's so traumatized and she probably worries that her little siblings won't be taken care of as well without her there. It's hard to grow up brainwashed and overcome it, I know this, I know it's like a death of the person you were. But oh, the other side is glorious. I wish with all my heart they'll know that one day.

I think the barrier is not just that they're brainwashed but that it was brainwashing from birth. When you brainwash a baby, you completely shape the way the kid's very brain forms, from the bottom up. All these kids' neural circuits have been formed in their entirety by Duggardom, and I've seen in my own family that that seems much much much harder to overcome than brainwashing that takes place when somebody's older.

 

Some people do escape, even with the bottom-up brainwiring, of course. But so much of the warping took place when the kids were pre-speech and had absolutely no contrary influences or ability on their own to question it, that they're really hard wired, I think. So while it can happen, I wouldn't ever want to underestimate the difficulty.

 

In The Once and Future King -- I think when writing about Lancelot, the Ill-Made Knight -- T.H. White wrote that "It is so fatally easy to make a small child believe that he is horrible." It's really really easy to shape a baby's whole worldview, including her assessment of herself.  And these kids are still in this environment. So anybody who even tries to think a little differently is going to need tremendous strength.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Churchhoney

[HalcyonDays]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much real-world support the Duggars have. If TLC can't sell ad space during the show, they can't afford to continue it. As long as sponsors keep dropping like flies, it's the end. TLC is definitely analyzing all their ad numbers and seeing if they can afford to continue the show. It's their number one show, so they're certainly not going to make this decision lightly.

 

Apparently the show is TLC's biggest ratings draw, which is way they are hesitant to cancel it. The loss of enough advertisers is going to be the nail in the coffin for the show, but some of the companies are "waiting and seeing", i.e. waiting for the smoke to clear.

 

TLC upper brass apparently knew about this years ago - during the Oprah scheduled appearance - but cash trumps ethics as usual (in all business).

 

And as with all trainwrecks, scandals like this tend to bump up ratings and interest. Go figure.

[Shibori]

I have a few issues with that latest In Touch story.  Appealing a government agency's decision is not the same thing as a lawsuit, and a hearing is not the same as a trial.  It sounds like Arkansas CPS found there was abuse, and Josh appealed that finding in a hearing (most likely before an administrative law judge).  Arkansas has a Child Maltreatment Central Registry and applicants for certain jobs (like teaching) require a check against that registry before hiring.  Unfortunately, it sounds from this fact sheet, that it's pretty easy to get removed from the registry after a relatively short time has passed.  Saying that Josh sued CPS is misleading, as it implies that he filed an action against them, which does not appear to be accurate, nor is it correct to say he had a "trial", at least in the legal sense of the word, if it was an appeal hearing.

[Cherrio]

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment. For all we know, the girls truly have forgiven and want to forget. If the daughters are fully on board with continuing the show I don't have a problem with it.

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

I have read what I think is most of the media coverage on this and have found nothing but short and factual articles.   Will you point out the specific witch hunt articles because I am curious about them.

[Slugabug Foster]

Excellent point. I once asked a (fundie) pastor a similar question and got a horrifying response. Basically, he said that women, through Eve, ruined God's plan of a perfect man. So the man is still superior even though he has been made weak in this area because of the sin of Eve,who was tempted by the serpent. Again, it's all viewed through the lens that personhood, by default is male, and that women sort of exist also, but in a secondhand kind of way. 

 

 

 

Perhaps, being told all his life that males can't control their lustful urges is what justified Josh's actions in his mind?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Slugabug Foster

[yogi2014L]

Sorry if this has been touched on before but I just remembered how at the end of the final interview there was the mention of new possible courtships and JOSH of all people asks ( Im paraphrasing, if someone who remembers it better PLEASE recap) goes " Jana? Jinger? Any news" 

 

It stuck out to me at the time because it was INSANELY AWKWARD and Jana and Jinger basically side eyed him and I don't even think said anything. I don't even know if they laughed. It was really bizarre but now it all makes sense. 

 

Now knowing that they KNEW that everyone would know about the abuse when he asked that....so CREEPY and WEIRD. Smugger is a grade A asshat. It probably didn't even occur to him how his poor sisters were feeling about everything. Selfish SOB. SMDH

Edited May 27, 2015 by yogi2014L

[GEML]

I think you have to also judge where is the biggest audience coming from. I think a lot of the HBB coverage came from a sort of car wreck starting point - it was a shoot off from TODDLERS AND TIARAS, after all. But I really think the Duggars audience is far more sympathetic to them that we as a whole are. They start from a different place than other shows on TLC.

[leighdear]

As long as McDonalds is hiring and grocery stores need checkers, there will be jobs for previously unskilled workers.  People need to actually be able to perform tasks, not just pose and talk.  Getting paid for an actual contribution to society is what I am in favor of for all of the adults involved. 

 

Millions of people across the world enter the job market at a low level and eventually progress.  This family should be no different.  Not even the girls are owed a luxury lifestyle if their father hasn't provided. They definitely need a LOT of support, but they also need to learn to take care of themselves and each other. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by leighdear

[Jellybeans]

There is a lot of speculation out there. I am trying to refrain from saying much because of Anna and her children, as well as his family.

However I take no pity on the parents who seem to be stimulating sex acts in front of their children.

[Aja]

All these kids' neural circuits have been formed in their entirety by Duggardom, and I've seen in my own family that that seems much much much harder to overcome than brainwashing that takes place when somebody's older.

 

True. And so sad. Maybe one of the younger kids, born after the specials and series started and therefore were not as fanatically sheltered, could make it?

[Wellfleet]

Perhaps, being told all his life that males can't control their lustful urges is what justified Josh's actions in his mind?

 

This definitely crossed my mind. Even if not a factor in the end, it can't be good for males to hear this from the time they're little boys, basically. And Boob was probably doing more yammering than most fathers.

[GEML]

Lots of people raised in excessively oppressive and even abusive households "make it" every day. Insisting that the Duggar children aren't "making it" because they don't do what we wish they would do does a disservice to them AND credits Gothard that his system of brainwashing actually works. We know from the Keller family and sites like Homeschooler Anonymous that plenty of children living in this system DO leave. Thus far, the two main families who had all children stay (Duggars and Bates) have enjoyed high standards of living and a television show. I think that has more to do with their "success" than the brainwashing.

[Cherrio]

I think you have to also judge where is the biggest audience coming from. I think a lot of the HBB coverage came from a sort of car wreck starting point - it was a shoot off from TODDLERS AND TIARAS, after all. But I really think the Duggars audience is far more sympathetic to them that we as a whole are. They start from a different place than other shows on TLC

The Duggar show was absolutely no different for me than Honey Boo Boo.     They were both freak shows for me.  

[Georgia]

There is a sex scandal emerging from Horace Mann (an exclusive private school) in the Bronx. My husband is from that world (though he didn't go to HM) and I went to college with a lot of people who went there. I'm starting to put 2 and 2 together about some people that I know personally and I honestly don't know how I'm going to manage the shock and sickness I'm feeling. These kids are not like the Duggars - they are from wealthy, connected, educated families. This could well take spotlight from the Duggars. Or the people who covered it up for decades could just make it disappear, as usual. I sincerely hope neither of these things happen. We have so far to go to keep children safe.

 

I just happened to remember today being surprised when a couple of the girls (can't remember which ones) gleefully mocked Josh's weight gain. They seemed to take such pleasure in making fun of him. Makes sense now, like so many things.

 

(*As an aside (will of course delete if not appropriate), Lillian Gilbreth did, in fact, share some parenting methods with Michelle Duggar. She and Frank Sr. saw themselves as management, responsible for overseeing the children, who performed the actual household tasks. But she was an engineer in her "spare" time and a brilliant, hard-working woman. I highly recommend the bio Making Time, by Jane Lancaster.)

[Churchhoney]

Lots of people raised in excessively oppressive and even abusive households "make it" every day. Insisting that the Duggar children aren't "making it" because they don't do what we wish they would do does a disservice to them AND credits Gothard that his system of brainwashing actually works. We know from the Keller family and sites like Homeschooler Anonymous that plenty of children living in this system DO leave. Thus far, the two main families who had all children stay (Duggars and Bates) have enjoyed high standards of living and a television show. I think that has more to do with their "success" than the brainwashing.

I agree. That's the main reason I want the show to end and think that it's been toxic.

 

Nevertheless, I have a lot of personal experience with family brainwashing (not religiously inspired, however) and family brainwashing that occurs at different periods, and it's quite clear to me -- and to professionals I've talked to -- that you never should imagine that someone can simply walk away from influences that have made up their whole environment from birth. That stuff is in there, and while the level of entrapment varies from person to person, early unconscious influences for many people are going to have a huge effect on both what they do later and on what they WANT to do. It's too easy to say that because some people can walk away or can DESIRE to walk away, that everybody can. For many, there are powerful internal forces arrayed both against doing it and against wanting to do it, seems to me.

[OhioMom]

Perhaps, being told all his life that males can't control their lustful urges is what justified Josh's actions in his mind?

Except that this occurred when he was 14. His parents probably didn't have that talk with him until his was 13, maybe 12.  Even the Duggars wouldn't be talking about lustful thoughts with a 8 or 9 year old, would they?  So...two years of hearing that?  Maybe not even that much....

[3 is enough]

The bad news just keeps on coming for the Duggars.  The Arkansas Court of Appeals just struck down the abortion law banning any abortion after 12 weeks.  Of course the Duggars were very vocal about their support of this law.  I remember Josh tweeting about it obnoxiously when it passed.  

 

Doubt we will hear any reaction because they are focused on other things and their social media accounts have gone dark.  Bet Josh, in particular, finds not being able to defend "Orthodox Christian values" to be a very bitter pill to swallow. 

[GEML]

Look, I spent a childhood in Fundyville, and come from five generations of it. I've heard every reason in the world why people stay and go.

The Horace Mann story has been another story under the radar for months.

The Duggars just aren't that big, long term. They are to us, but did the show ever hit 2M? Magazine sales have never been lower, so the fact that they are on the cover means they appeal to a more non-digital, and mostly older demographic. This thread had ten billion posts because people like me post fifty times a day! ;)

[Quilt Fairy]

From The Hollywood Reporter: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bastard-machine/josh-duggar-19-kids-counting-798233

 

The last paragraph from that article:

There is currently a sustained push to shame TLC into abandoning the Duggars and their sanctimonious lies and horrible family secrets. But that’s the thing. I’ve written a lot of these “TLC is the worst channel in the universe” columns through the years, but guess what? Nothing changes. You can’t shame TLC and the people who run it because they don’t have any shame left.

[3 is enough]

The Daily Mail ( yeah, I know, but still...)  has latched on to the the fact the Duggar kids were beaten with a rod.  (mentioned in the police report).

[truthtalk2014]

I think that people need to evaluate their own personal reasons for being intrigued by the Duggar family. I know that personally, I had to record it and watch when my husband wasn't around. "why are you watching this horrible stuff, change the channel." So, I recorded it and watched it later. But why did I watch? I wondered about that really. I know that it was unusual, so many children in a world that's already overcrowded. I know that I thought Michelle must be under some kind of spell. I knew I watched because I was trying to find something genuine, it all seemed so fake. I truly felt embarrassed to admit that I watched '19 Kids and Counting" so I never told anyone, it was my own secret obsession. I know for sure that I didn't watch because I liked them, I watched for some little sign that they were actually genuine and believed that what they were doing was better than any of us could do. Yes, in a lot of ways I did feel that watching was wrong, that I was being duped by the Duggars, but still I watched out of curiosity. I know that it's not wrong to hug someone or kiss a boyfriend on the lips. I know that it's not wrong to have sexual thoughts or even want to have sex just for the fun of it, not to procreate over and over. I knew it's not mentally healthy to have an addiction to having babies then passing them off for another child to raise. I possibly looked for some sign that there was some normalcy within that family, I mean genuine normalcy.

 

I will admit that I am a closet watcher as well.  My husband knows- but I always watch when he is doing something else.  He already had a thing for Christian hypocrites.  But he knows I watch and that I can't stand the parents- but have become attached some of the children.  It was hilarious because he came to me recently when an article popped up on his BBC feed about Josh.  LOL  

 

I have told a couple of friends that I watch and they are shocked.  lol They just don't understand the train wreck- can't stop watching and why I even started.   So, I'll go back to the closet- ESPECIALLY now! 

As long as McDonalds is hiring and grocery stores need checkers, there will be jobs for previously unskilled workers.  People need to actually be able to perform tasks, not just pose and talk.  Getting paid for an actual contribution to society is what I am in favor of for all of the adults involved. 

 

Millions of people across the world enter the job market at a low level and eventually progress.  This family should be no different.  Not even the girls are owed a luxury lifestyle if their father hasn't provided. They definitely need a LOT of support, but they also need to learn to take care of themselves and each other. 

I totally agree.  Something has to force them out of their comfort zone.  A job- any job for starters.  Jinger -go work at Starbucks!  Jessa could probably do hair- there are so many possibilities for the others.  Be a waitress and make lots of tips.  God knows you've been doing it forever for nothing.  

 

I disagree with giving them any money through any fund me account as I do with Oprah giving them a million dollars.  If Oprah wants to hand out 19 million dollars, she can find some children in America that really need it and would love to be handed an education for free. 

 

The money will go and they will eventually learn to be self sufficient. I hope.  I really do hope.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[WhineandCheez]

Wasn't there some cousin who had gotten out that used to be nicknamed (by us) "FAMY"?  I know she is on the outside--has anyone picked up on comments by her?

 

Getting paid for an actual contribution to society is what I am in favor of for all of the adults involved.

 

I would think the conservative or Christian view would be that being a mother IS your only job.  I don't see any of these young mothers even remotely working outside the home.  Don't you think all their fans will send them gift cards, cash, etc?

Edited May 27, 2015 by WhineandCheez

[Darknight]

Poster with the Duggars

It had already dropped the Duggars' hit show, 19 Kids and Counting, from its schedule after it emerged that the family's eldest son, Josh, had molested several young girls as a teenager.

Now, TLC has pulled Jim Bob Duggar, his wife Michelle and their 19 children from its highly-anticipated Summer Block Party, which is taking place in Philadelphia at noon on Saturday.

The family had originally been slated to appear at the event, which features a number of network stars and is open and free to the public - and had even appeared on the party's official poster.

But they have since been dropped from the party, while Little People Big World's Roloff family has replaced Jim Bob and Michelle on the poster,

Poster magically replaced with the Roloffs

I have a vision of Michelle calling over the loudspeaker/intercom thing for all the children to come to the living room for a family meeting. As they're all sitting quietly, looking at her somber face, with eyes wide, speaking in a slow, hushed Michelle-speak. "Now children, we will not be going to the big block party in Philadelphia this weekend. Instead, we will be praying as a family, giving side hugs and making tater-tot casserole together. This is what God wants us to do, so we should all pray on that. Now, everyone haul your own suitcases up the stairs so that the girls can unpack them."

They replaced them with the Roloffss. I wish the little couple replaced them

[silversage]

When I click on any link and see a picture of Josh I sure do look at him differently now. I never really looked at most Duggar family members favorably anyways but things are different now.

[Darknight]

Ha!! I can picture every Harpo producer laughing in his face. And I can see Oprah sitting in hair and make up, being notified of this fool's demands and letting out the biggest laugh ever. Like "do you know who I am, Cletus?"

If this happened then JB has a really big fucking ego. Who the hell does he think he is?

[Jamiesmum]

Doing my late night/early morning (my time) catch up on the boards and threads. A number of thought have come my way.

* Why did I start watching? Well, initially it was through channel surfing that I came across an episode or two. I eventually set it on my IQ and became a regular. I couldn't figure these people out. And as no-one else I knew watched it (and I hadn't discovered the forums) I was on my own. I knew it so different to my experience as growing up in a Catholic family of 5 kids in Australia and I was drawn in. I also got the not quite right vibe. And annoyingly, it also made me question decisions I had made about relationships. I got over that one pretty quick. So I kept watching to figure it out. And I watched old episodes and specials on You Tube to see if I could figure it out. I made some insights, but just came to the conclusion that they were just weird.

*. All my grandparents came from large families, not 19, but common for the time. What they did in the olden times, even in strict Catholic and Methodist families, was send the kids out to work at proper jobs under supervision. In my maternal grandmothers family, after their father was killed in a mining accident, the girls started as governesses or pupil/teachers. Good jobs, reasonable pay for the time. The money was used to fund the boys tertiary education and they became lawyers, doctors, and one a Methodist minister. They later paid the girls back by way of helping out with housing, holidays, whatever. The youngest great aunt became something of a Miss Jean Brodie type, very interested in the promotion of women's education and the communist party(!). Here was a family working together over a number of years for each other's welfare and betterment. They were probably not alone. It was just what families did. The Duggars would have done to look toward this type of family who looked after each other, were Christians and who were able to develop their own personalities and set of job skills. Still been very close to each other, but became educated, self-sufficient and productive.

*. When I first heard of this and understood what was going on, I was reminded of the movie Primary Colours, where a big personality wants to run for President. Kathy Bates plays a character whose job includes digging into the background of other potential candidates. She finds out information about one man and follows it through until she and another man confront the potential candidate. What comes out is not what they expected - far more salacious, disgusting and horrible what they had thought. After the revelation, Kathy Bates and the other man are then sitting in their car looking stunned. She says "I always knew it would be good. I just never knew it would be this good."

That was how I felt. I had imagined their undoing would be something to do with money, perhaps underhand dealings, real estate rip offs, tax problems, dodgy deals in buying and selling the stuff in their storage sheds. Or perhaps the whole Gothard thing would fall apart, and they would become the ones to spill all for the right price. But nothing where their own children had been involved and hurt. Nothing like this. I admit I felt that it may be a salutary lesson for the married girls to find out what married life was really like without heaps of people around as they were unused to coping alone. But nothing like this. Never this.

* I feel now that I know why I watched. And I will never need to watch again. Sure I will keep an eye out for articles on the progressing story, and what happens in the future. But I never need to see them on TV again. We were a season behind in Australia, so I will never see Israel's birth, Jessa's wedding or baby announcement or the other stuff, but I don't need to. I think I would feel way too much like a voyeur into something that is none of my business. And this has surprised me very much. I know way too many personal things about this family that should have been kept private. And the more I know, the more uncomfortable I am for them and me.

I will miss them. I will miss trying to figure them out. Had THIS not come out, they would have remained on my playlist, and I would have enjoyed the puzzle they presented. And I wish the best for the 18 kids, the grandkids, the brothers and sister in law. I hope they can get what they need and make the most of their lives. The other 3 will reap what they have sown and I predict will never really understand how they caused their own downfall.

Wow, much longer than I thought. Mods, please edit as you see fit. I very much appreciate the work you do to keep these threads clean and enjoyable (if that is the right word).