Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Absolom]

I'm sure Anna is sending him as many commissary packages as she can.  I can't see Josh not consuming all the cookies and chips that land his way.

[Zella]

10 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

He could lose weight at the Fed Pen. Real Housewives of New Jersey's Joe Giudice lost something like 50 lbs during the 5ish years he was incarcerated. He looked like a completely different person when he was released. It can be done.

I'm not denying that people lose weight in custody. I am just pointing out that it isn't the universal experience people often make it out to be. The opposite is actually more common. 

11 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Regarding FTC Oklahoma City:

LENGTH OF STAY: In-transit inmates are held at the FTC for a variety of reasons (i.e., ICE, USM, BOP, WRIT, etc.). It is not uncommon for an inmate to be held for more than 60 days due to a re- designation while in-transit, WRIT, ICE releases, airplane/vehicle repairs, etc. The Unit Manager and Case Management Coordinator begin tracking inmates to ensure they are not unnecessarily delayed once they are at the FTC for more than 30 days. The average length of stay is 4 to 6 weeks. Inmates are not housed at the FTC any longer than necessary. It is not unusual for other inmates to arrive after you and depart before you. Movement is normally based upon when you were designated; not when you arrived at the FTC. For security reasons, staff WILL NOT tell you when you are leaving.

Thank you!

[emmawoodhouse]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'm not denying that people lose weight in custody. I am just pointing out that it isn't the universal experience people often make it out to be. The opposite is actually more common. 

Thank you!

I actually agree about the weight gain. I just wanted to point out that weight loss is attainable if one dedicates oneself to it. Smuggar has demonstrated that he has no impulse control, so I expect he will gain substantially.

[Zella]

Just now, emmawoodhouse said:

I actually agree about the weight gain. I just wanted to point out that weight loss is attainable if one dedicates oneself to it. Smuggar has demonstrated that he has no impulse control, so I expect he will gain substantially.

Ah I gotcha now! Yes Josh has never struck me as someone who was interested in fitness before, and he doesn't seem very goal-oriented or driven in general either. Maybe after a few years in prison, he'll change, even out of just sheer boredom, but I would be genuinely surprised. 

[SMama]

Since Anna does not have an income, who is putting money on the FF’s account? 

If JB decides to turn off the money spigot for the FF, how will Anna cope? 

[irisheyes]

15 minutes ago, SMama said:

Since Anna does not have an income, who is putting money on the FF’s account? 

If JB decides to turn off the money spigot for the FF, how will Anna cope? 

He won’t. Cause if Anna gets desperate, she may decide to write the tell all book. Poverty has a way of clearing up your vision. She knows where LOTS of bodies are buried. 

[Westiepeach]

36 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

He won’t. Cause if Anna gets desperate, she may decide to write the tell all book. Poverty has a way of clearing up your vision. She knows where LOTS of bodies are buried. 

She will NEVER write a tell-all. She is not wired that way in her cult.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Westiepeach said:

She will NEVER write a tell-all. She is not wired that way in her cult.

Agreed. I'd argued before the trial that the best way for her to have a chance of breaking free on her own and not being dependent on Jim Bob's financial support was via a tell-all, but having seen the way she's doubled-down, I realize that that is never going to happen. I think somehow in her mind it is preferable to be absolutely miserable as Josh's wife than admit to anyone, let alone herself, that she was ever wrong about him or their marriage or anything. 

[Scarlett45]

I understand emotions are high, but until or unless a Duggar makes a statement about recent events, I would like to refrain from discussion (outside of Small Talk). 
 

However remember that the Politics Policy (the spirit and the letter) remain in effect across the forum. 

[emmawoodhouse]

47 minutes ago, Zella said:

Agreed. I'd argued before the trial that the best way for her to have a chance of breaking free on her own and not being dependent on Jim Bob's financial support was via a tell-all, but having seen the way she's doubled-down, I realize that that is never going to happen. I think somehow in her mind it is preferable to be absolutely miserable as Josh's wife than admit to anyone, let alone herself, that she was ever wrong about him or their marriage or anything. 

Co-signed. And wanted to add that she would tie this into her Gothardite upbringing and current beliefs. But what's unclear is what Gothard has to say about an incarcerated husband. All I have to go by is when another religious leader (Kent Hovind, IIRC) was in jail. Boob and other men maintained his innocence, but we never heard about his wife. But given the way this guy was martyred, I would guess that the wife dutifully waited for him. I don't think money was an issue in her support, as it might become in Anna's. 

I hope there is a lot of real estate stashed away in all those LLCs.

[quarks]

And not to necessarily sound like a broken record here, but I also don't think Anna can make a lot of money with a tell-all in the current publishing environment. Maybe enough money to support herself and the kids for a couple of years, but that's very optimistic. 

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, quarks said:

And not to necessarily sound like a broken record here, but I also don't think Anna can make a lot of money with a tell-all in the current publishing environment. Maybe enough money to support herself and the kids for a couple of years, but that's very optimistic. 

(Not saying this scenario is likely but in an alternate reality where Anna wanted independence)

I think her sitting down with JB asserting her “must haves” (for her and the kids) and “won’t dos” (when Josh gets out he isn’t to live with me) and being out on down on the Duggar LLC payroll as a caregiver/tutor/personal assistant so she would have some income of her own to control would offer her a lot more long term stability than writing a tell all (socially and economically). 
 

Writing a tell all would make her and her kids “persona non grata” in the Duggar clan (even if everything she said was the truth) and I could understand how any mother wouldn’t want to do that to their kids. 
 

But this reality I’m living in is one where Anna has 4 kids not 7, because after Josh’s last stint in Jesus Jail she realized more babies was a bad idea, as Josh would be fucking up again. (Not that she would’ve expect CSAM but at least another Josh-gate). 

[smittykins]

10 hours ago, Zella said:

 I think somehow in her mind it is preferable to be absolutely miserable as Josh's wife than admit to anyone, let alone herself, that she was ever wrong about him or their marriage or anything. 

Plus, I think Gothard teaches that you must endure suffering here on earth in order to enjoy eternal happiness in heaven.

[ginger90]

Her Twitter “Road-tripping” post,  and comments are still up.

[GeeGolly]

Can Josh have visitors in the processing/holding tank? Did Anna drive to OK? Does she even know what the rules are and/or what she is doing?

So many questions. It feels like Anna is a naïve teen driving hundreds of miles to see a band, but without tickets.

[Stevie Nicks]

29 minutes ago, smittykins said:

Plus, I think Gothard teaches that you must endure suffering here on earth in order to enjoy eternal happiness in heaven.

🙄 

Anna probably went hoping she will get a conjugal visit.  I know they don't tell the inmate they're being moved til it's time, but how long after would the family be told? It seems from the articles that Anna left on her "road trip" the day after he was transferred. So is the family informed when the prisoner is  en route to the new prison or? It seems like they found out awful fast when he was moved. He doesn't get conjugal visits, does he? In prison? 

[ginger90]

27 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Can Josh have visitors in the processing/holding tank? Did Anna drive to OK? Does she even know what the rules are and/or what she is doing?

So many questions. It feels like Anna is a naïve teen driving hundreds of miles to see a band, but without tickets.

For FTC Oklahoma City, as an example because we don’t know at the moment if he’s there, from the handbook:

“VISITING: Visits may be approved for immediate family only, upon the holdover's request to the Unit Team. Immediate family member verification is determined by your Pre-Sentence Investigation Report, current visiting list located in your Central File, or the Bureau of Prisons online visiting program. Foreign national inmates have access to their diplomatic representative by initiating an inmate request to the unit counselor. A copy of your visiting list will be returned to you once it has been reviewed by staff, with a notation indicating who is approved for visitation. DO NOT tell anyone to come visit you until you are certain approval has been granted by your Unit Team. Please consider the distance your visitor will travel, expenses involved with travel, and the possibility of you being transferred prior to their arrival.
Visiting hours are from 8:00 a.m. until 3:00 p.m. each Saturday, Sunday, and Federal Holiday. Special visits for clergy, attorney, and institution-based programs may be approved by staff. A point system limits (4 points) the number of visits authorized monthly. You can check your point status during your visit, with the Visiting Room Officer. One point is used per visiting day. Two points are used per visit on federal holidays. No more than 5 visitors may enter the visiting room per inmate at one time, to include children. Ensure your visitors know they must possess a government issued photo identification card (required). Visitors will not be allowed to visit if they arrive after 2:15 p.m. Prohibited clothing for visitors includes but is not limited to Khaki, hunter green, or orange clothing, shorts, miniskirts, sheer or revealing clothing, tight fitting or provocative clothing, and underwire bras. Female visitors must wear a bra. All visitors over the age of 16 must provide at least one photo identification card issued by the state or federal government. Attorneys require additional identification (i.e., state bar card). Foreign national inmates may request access to their diplomatic representative by initiating an inmate request to the Unit Counselor. Once verified, the diplomatic representative will be added to the approved visiting list. Visitors are authorized to bring into the visiting room, one small coin purse (transparent) with coins, one small-quilted blanket (2X2), three disposable diapers per child, and a baby bib. Children will sit with the visiting adult or watch TV in the play area. Children are not authorized to visit with other visitors, play in areas other than designated, and may be limited to sitting next to the supervising adult. Visitors are not authorized to bring any items or receive any item from an inmate.
Visitor parking is designated with parking signs. Visitors will not be processed unless appropriately parked in the designated area. Visitors are not allowed to stay in their car in the parking lot. Visits may be terminated, or a visitor may be turned around for reasons such as: national/institution emergency, inclement weather, failure to clear initial screening at the front entrance (i.e., metal detector, search, etc.), no documentation of visit approval, insufficient visiting points, misconduct on the part of the inmate or visitor, inappropriate dress, improper identification, and overcrowding.”

HOWEVER I don’t know if this  ( below )is current:

Edited June 25, 2022 by ginger90

[ginger90]

8 minutes ago, Stevie Nicks said:

🙄 So is the family informed when the prisoner is  en route to the new prison or?
 

He doesn't get conjugal visits, does he? In prison? 

No to both.

[GeeGolly]

Pulled from @ginger90's post.

DO NOT tell anyone to come visit you until you are certain approval has been granted by your Unit Team. Please consider the distance your visitor will travel, expenses involved with travel, and the possibility of you being transferred prior to their arrival.

Me thinks Anna is going to be sitting in the grass, outside a barbwire fence, looking longingly at the prison.

[galaxygirl76]

I hope she didn't bring the kids on this road trip, especially if it's uncertain if they even gets to see him. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by galaxygirl76

[SMama]

Why OK facility, did I miss something?

[Absolom]

We don't know where Josh is (as far as I know at this moment).  There were two prisons suggested for him and the OK facility is the transfer center where many inmates go before being assigned a regular facility.  But this is the Bureau of Prisons and they could be sending him to Oregon for all we know.  

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, SMama said:

Why OK facility, did I miss something?

It's apparently common to be transferred there as one's first stop in federal custody before being forwarded on to your actual destination. I guess this way they don't have federal prisoners taking up local jail facilities until they are actually assigned a prison. 

I cross-posted with @Absolom!

Edited June 25, 2022 by Zella

[ginger90]

13 minutes ago, SMama said:

Why OK facility, did I miss something?

My reason was in my post:

For FTC Oklahoma City, as an example because we don’t know at the moment if he’s there, from the handbook:

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Pulled from @ginger90's post.

DO NOT tell anyone to come visit you until you are certain approval has been granted by your Unit Team. Please consider the distance your visitor will travel, expenses involved with travel, and the possibility of you being transferred prior to their arrival.

Me thinks Anna is going to be sitting in the grass, outside a barbwire fence, looking longingly at the prison.

I have a feeling that is what she is going to do.  

[merylinkid]

I doubt FF told her to come visit.   She just heard where he was and off she went.   Just like she spent all that time on video calls while he was in county lock up.   Like HOURS a day.  Because she has nothing to do but be Josh's wife.   

But why no khaki (which is pretty common casual but appropriate wear), or hunter green?  I'm okay with no orange because I'm not a fan of orange.  

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, merylinkid said:

But why no khaki (which is pretty common casual but appropriate wear), or hunter green?  I'm okay with no orange because I'm not a fan of orange.  

Because they are inmate colors.

[emmawoodhouse]

She would have had to take the kids. The Duggars, including Boobchelle, Jana, Jason, James, and Jenni (assuming they didn't leave Hannie or Josie, just didn't see them in pictures) traveled to Cincinnati for a wedding yesterday. I doubt Anna made her "road trip" wherever she was going all in one day. Unless she was already at her destination before her post and she actually made it home in time to be part of the Duggars' caravan. Maybe Olivia Collingsworth (the bride) is the "bestie," and there was never a trip to OK or TX in hopes of seeing the FF (which we now know is currently impossible).

[Kiss my mutt]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Because they are inmate colors.

Yeah, same reason you don’t wear a red polo to shop at Target!

[Albanyguy]

11 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Yeah, same reason you don’t wear a red polo to shop at Target!

Or a blue one at Best Buy.

[AgathaC]

23 minutes ago, Albanyguy said:

Or a blue one at Best Buy.

My dad did that once. He ended up being asked for help three times and my sister and I had a heckuva time finding him when we split up.

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Prohibited clothing for visitors includes but is not limited to Khaki, hunter green, or orange clothing, shorts, miniskirts, sheer or revealing clothing, tight fitting or provocative clothing, and underwire bras. Female visitors must wear a bra.

This bit sparked my interest. I visited a prison during law school, but I could see Anna thinking that rules don’t apply to her and showing up in prohibited colors/clothing (although the bra thing is odd I understand it, underwire can be fashioned into a weapon, but I’m sure many women only own underwire bras!). 
 

If Anna drives to see Josh and his prohibited a visit, that would be the real moment where she lost it in public. 

[Zella]

11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

If Anna drives to see Josh and his prohibited a visit, that would be the real moment where she lost it in public. 

"Do you know who I am?!?!"

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Yeah, same reason you don’t wear a red polo to shop at Target!

I made that mistake. Once.

[ginger90]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

"Do you know who I am?!?!"

Edited June 25, 2022 by ginger90

[Westiepeach]

1 minute ago, ginger90 said:

And how’s that working out for you now, Anna? 

[DXD526]

I follow this gross family solely for the schadenfreude, I've never seen any of their TV shows or read any of their "books". But I have to admit, if Anna, or any of these nudniks, went over to the dark side and wrote a tell-all, I would so read it!!

[ginger90]

I don’t know how I attached that to Zella’s post. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[emmawoodhouse]

19 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

I follow this gross family solely for the schadenfreude, I've never seen any of their TV shows or read any of their "books". But I have to admit, if Anna, or any of these nudniks, went over to the dark side and wrote a tell-all, I would so read it!!

Anna's too beholden to the Duggar teat to ever go off the reservation via a tell all. I'm waiting for Derelict to make good on his promise. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by emmawoodhouse

[CrazyInAlabama]

10 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

🙄

Anna probably went hoping she will get a conjugal visit.  I know they don't tell the inmate they're being moved til it's time, but how long after would the family be told? It seems from the articles that Anna left on her "road trip" the day after he was transferred. So is the family informed when the prisoner is  en route to the new prison or? It seems like they found out awful fast when he was moved. He doesn't get conjugal visits, does he? In prison? 

Federal prisons do not have conjugal visits.   

They are limited to five people per visit, including children.   They get four points per month for visits, with one point for each visit on Friday or Saturday, and two points for a federal holiday visit  Hours are from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m., no admittance after 2:15 p.m.  

They don't tell about inmate transfers until after it's completed, and inmate is in the new facility.    There have been too many attempts to free inmates during transfer.   

Another reason for the no underwire bras could be the metal detector. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[SMama]

There was a time the Duggars made the news for never ending pregnancies. Now they make the news because of the monster they created, a convicted pedophile. That stench will forever remain on all Duggars and adjacents. Way to go JB and Michelle!

[Absolom]

6 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Federal prisons do not have conjugal visits.   

We need to pin this information.  

[Heathen]

58 minutes ago, Absolom said:

We need to pin this information.  

It won't stop people from speculating. 

Most Duggar males wear oversized suits and look silly, but Smuggar FF managed to wear an undersized suit and look sillier. I hope the inseam chafed his junk. Bruising would be even nicer. 

[quarks]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Writing a tell all would make her and her kids “persona non grata” in the Duggar clan (even if everything she said was the truth) and I could understand how any mother wouldn’t want to do that to their kids. 

There's that, too. Especially since she would only net - optimistically - $30,000 to $40,000 from any sort of tell-all. More likely, around $10,000 to $15,000. Enough for a down payment on an apartment and utility bills, but not enough to feed her family for a year, no matter how frugal she tries to be.

5 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

She would have had to take the kids. The Duggars, including Boobchelle, Jana, Jason, James, and Jenni (assuming they didn't leave Hannie or Josie, just didn't see them in pictures) traveled to Cincinnati for a wedding yesterday. I doubt Anna made her "road trip" wherever she was going all in one day. Unless she was already at her destination before her post and she actually made it home in time to be part of the Duggars' caravan. Maybe Olivia Collingsworth (the bride) is the "bestie," and there was never a trip to OK or TX in hopes of seeing the FF (which we now know is currently impossible).

She could have parceled out the kids, though - taken one or two with her (presumably at least the youngest), and left the others with the various local relatives who didn't head out of town, and/or allowed one or two to head to the wedding. 

I really don't think she's in the best mental/emotional state, so the various restrictions on seeing Josh at the moment may not have sunk in. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Since each visit is a maximum of five people, including children, she couldn't take more than four of them anyway.   I'm wondering if he'll even put her on the visitor's list?  The kids have to behave too. 

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Since each visit is a maximum of five people, including children, she couldn't take more than four of them anyway.   I'm wondering if he'll even put her on the visitor's list?  The kids have to behave too. 

I don't think the FF is going to give up Anna, as she is the only one who will always call and always visit him, to break up the boredom of prison. I'm assuming she at least has Madyson with her. As far as behaving during a visit, Anna's kids don't seem to be feral like some of the younger Duggar 19 were.

[GeeGolly]

For the past decade or so I've watched and read various accounts, including the actual court case, of Michael Peterson, not to be confused with *Scott or *Drew. He has 5 kids - 2 sons, 2 adopted daughters and an estranged step daughter. He was convicted, overturned, then Alford plead out of murdering his second wife. He is also suspected of murdering his friend who was the mom of the (young then) daughters he later adopted.

His kids were teens and young adults throughout the death of his second wife and trials and such. His 4 children have stuck by him this entire time so I'm guessing the M & Ms will stick by their dad throughout his prison sentence and after. I'm also guessing when the FF screws up again, some of them may change their tune. But my point is, the M & Ms may never hate their dad or put any blame on their mother for any of this.

*what is it with men named Peterson?!

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

For the past decade or so I've watched and read various accounts, including the actual court case, of Michael Peterson, not to be confused with *Scott or *Drew. He has 5 kids - 2 sons, 2 adopted daughters and an estranged step daughter. He was convicted, overturned, then Alford plead out of murdering his second wife. He is also suspected of murdering his friend who was the mom of the (young then) daughters he later adopted.

His kids were teens and young adults throughout the death of his second wife and trials and such. His 4 children have stuck by him this entire time so I'm guessing the M & Ms will stick by their dad throughout his prison sentence and after. I'm also guessing when the FF screws up again, some of them may change their tune. But my point is, the M & Ms may never hate their dad or put any blame on their mother for any of this.

*what is it with men named Peterson?!

My parents once saw Drew and his last wife Stacey at the local grocery store. My dad said he had thought why is that young girl with that old man? I lived in Bolingbrook and have worked at the library for nearly 30 years. I checked her library card and she had children's books out. Made me sad. 

Yea, Peterson.... why? 

[ginger90]

Didn’t some of their children attend this last year? 

[Zella]

US Magazine is reporting that Josh was transferred to a Texas prison (either Seagoville or Texarkana), but I wonder if those Einsteins are just assuming that the judge's recommendation is an automatic, which it isn't. I didn't see any indication they had inside information. The Daily Fail has picked it up and is repeating it because of course they are.