Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[SusanM]

11 minutes ago, SMama said:

Of the three FF’s scandals, was there one that truly struck anyone as inconceivable? 

Definitely this last one.  When the news broke that something was up I thought it was some kind of fraud or financial scandal but never dreamed it was what it turned out 

[Jeanne222]

15 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Definitely this last one.  When the news broke that something was up I thought it was some kind of fraud or financial scandal but never dreamed it was what it turned out 

Boy that’s the truth. I remember all of us speculating and the Duggers denying anything was amiss!

[Ohiopirate02]

17 minutes ago, SusanM said:

Definitely this last one.  When the news broke that something was up I thought it was some kind of fraud or financial scandal but never dreamed it was what it turned out 

When we heard rumors about the Feds raiding the car lot, I automatically assumed it was due to JB's financial shenanigans.  I never dreamed that Josh did what he was convicted of.  It's a bridge too far for me personally when speculating about someone's crimes.  I still believe JB has committed fraud in some capacity over the years.  

[GeeGolly]

I was surprised by Scandals 1 & 3. I thought the rumored Scandal 1 was much ado over teen boyfriend and girlfriend mutually participating in 'petting'. I thought Scandal 3 was going to turn out to be funky money/car crimes. Never in my wildest dreams would I have guessed or expected what truly happened.

I don't think JB has ever had any power to obtain aid in covering up any crimes. He really doesn't seem to know anyone outside the church except for the Holts. Them and a couple of Fundies who have been to jail for their crimes.

[Zella]

I initially thought the raid was financial, but when I saw the things Homeland Security investigated, I started to wonder if it was something sexual, especially given Josh's history of molestation. Though my mind went more toward sex trafficking than CSAM. I was still pretty taken aback by the details of what he had when they came out.

[SusanM]

One thing that surprised me about the Ashley Madison scandal was how stupid Josh was.  I mean, I never thought he was a boy genius or anything but I did give him credit for some intelligence.  But that scandal demonstrated once and for all that he is a very stupid man.

[lascuba]

Duggar Data (blogger who's also a lawyer) did the math and calculated that with the enhancements, Josh's sentences would be 12 (or maybe it was 14) years. Judge's have a lot of discretion, though, and several people experienced in these types of trials have all said 5-8 years is more common, even when there are enhancements.

1 hour ago, SMama said:

Silly question because it’s Friday and my chronic pain is out of control, so I need a distraction. A lot of us felt from the beginning the Duggars were not as wholesome as they, and TLC wanted us to believe. Of the three FF’s scandals, was there one that truly struck anyone as inconceivable? 

Scandals 1 and 3 were shocking to me. The rumors about #1 had been a round for years but I always dismissed them for the most part as internet fan/hate fiction. Scandal 3--I had wanted to believe that 1 was an aberration, the actions of a teen boy who was more an opportunistic asshole rather than an actual pedophile.

[sagittarius sue]

19 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Duggar Data (blogger who's also a lawyer) did the math and calculated that with the enhancements, Josh's sentences would be 12 (or maybe it was 14) years. Judge's have a lot of discretion, though, and several people experienced in these types of trials have all said 5-8 years is more common, even when there are enhancements.

12 to 14 years would be great.  I'd also be content with 10, a nice round number.  Something that cuts down Smuggar baby production substantially.

[emmawoodhouse]

Emily D Baker and some other internet lawyers who have looked into it seem to think Smuggar will get around 6-8. This falls in line with what the judge normally sentences for similar crimes. 

[libgirl2]

Scandal #3 didn't suprise me at all. 

[SMama]

Like most I’d like the FF to serve as long a sentence as legally justified. Even a 5 year sentence will be a shock to his system. FF is no longer the golden child, little governor, with a bright future. No one will be waiting on him hand and foot. If he is somehow recognized by his last name, it will only bring further shame and ridicule. The FF will no longer be deferred to, or given special treatment. For perhaps the first time in his life he will follow the same rules as those around him. If he doesn’t there’ll be consequences. Every passing day will make him long even more for his DC days. He’s going and will continue to go through some things. Once he is released the harsh reality of having to register as a sex offender will slap him like Will Smith on Chris Rock. There won’t be a redemption tour. 

[crazy8s]

 Anna got a new Llc 3/9/2022 Homefield Properties. registered agent Travis Story with Anna as organizer/incorporator. Also interesting it doesn't have the Western Ridge Financial listed like the rest of her llcs.

[dariafan]

On 4/1/2022 at 5:19 PM, SMama said:

Like most I’d like the FF to serve as long a sentence as legally justified. Even a 5 year sentence will be a shock to his system. FF is no longer the golden child, little governor, with a bright future. No one will be waiting on him hand and foot. If he is somehow recognized by his last name, it will only bring further shame and ridicule. The FF will no longer be deferred to, or given special treatment. For perhaps the first time in his life he will follow the same rules as those around him. If he doesn’t there’ll be consequences. Every passing day will make him long even more for his DC days. He’s going and will continue to go through some things. Once he is released the harsh reality of having to register as a sex offender will slap him like Will Smith on Chris Rock. There won’t be a redemption tour. 

I bet he pulls a Jim Bakker   “ I’ve been In Prison !    I know what it’s like.   Listen to me “

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, dariafan said:

I bet he pulls a Jim Bakker   “ I’ve been In Prison !    I know what it’s like.   Listen to me “

'Cept the Felon has no audience waiting for him. The only ones waiting for him to get out are Duggars and tabloids.

[Zella]

I don't think Josh has Jim's sales abilities or drive. Like, he could barely sell a used car or a lie to the feds. I just can't see him being motivated or charismatic enough to build his own two-bit empire or peddle snakeoil colloidal silver treatments. LMAO 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't think Josh has Jim's sales abilities or drive. Like, he could barely sell a used car or a lie to the feds. I just can't see him being motivated or charismatic enough to build his own two-bit empire or peddle snakeoil colloidal silver treatments. LMAO 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh has gotta cultivate a more preppy look to be a scam artist of Jim's caliber.  

[SusanM]

12 minutes ago, Zella said:

I don't think Josh has Jim's sales abilities or drive. Like, he could barely sell a used car or a lie to the feds. I just can't see him being motivated or charismatic enough to build his own two-bit empire or peddle snakeoil colloidal silver treatments. LMAO 

If Smuggar had any charisma he wouldn't have been not selling used cars in a seedy hole in the corner used car lot.  No offense to used car salesmen out there but this isn't the kind of career one expects from the Chosen One, the Golden Son, the Annointed One.

I wonder if his parents have ever conceded to themselves that the best they can hope for with Smuggar is one prison sentence?

[Zella]

Just now, SusanM said:

If Smuggar had any charisma he wouldn't have been not selling used cars in a seedy hole in the corner used car lot.  No offense to used car salesmen out there but this isn't the kind of career one expects from the Chosen One, the Golden Son, the Annointed One.

I wonder if his parents have ever conceded to themselves that the best they can hope for with Smuggar is one prison sentence?

Well, that was after he'd already shit on his golden child opportunity at FRC, which he was gloriously unqualified for. And if the AMA from a former coworker on Reddit is to be believed--and I thought it was legit--he was really bad at it. I imagine Josh did have some larger ambition that probably matched the FRC job, but he seems to be content to just sit around and let Daddy get jobs for him and then coast on it because he's Josh Duggar. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Josh has gotta cultivate a more preppy look to be a scam artist of Jim's caliber.  

Better?

[xwordfanatik]

I'd forgotten how punchable Jim Bakker's face is.  I wonder if JillR watched Tammy Faye and wanted to copy her awful makeup?

2 hours ago, Zella said:

I don't think Josh has Jim's sales abilities or drive. Like, he could barely sell a used car or a lie to the feds. I just can't see him being motivated or charismatic enough to build his own two-bit empire or peddle snakeoil colloidal silver treatments. LMAO 

I agree!

[Spazamanaz]

When FF is finally sentenced and sent to the big house, will his time sitting in county jail taken off his sentence as time served? If so, maybe that's a reason why his lawyers keep trying to delay things. Do some time in county jail for awhile than the big house for the full sentence. 

[DXD526]

That poor kitty being held by Jim and Tammy looks traumatized. 

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, Spazamanaz said:

When FF is finally sentenced and sent to the big house, will his time sitting in county jail taken off his sentence as time served? If so, maybe that's a reason why his lawyers keep trying to delay things. Do some time in county jail for awhile than the big house for the full sentence. 

Yes, he gets credit for time served at the county jail. It'll be about six months at sentencing.

[Cinnabon]

11 hours ago, Zella said:

Well, that was after he'd already shit on his golden child opportunity at FRC, which he was gloriously unqualified for. And if the AMA from a former coworker on Reddit is to be believed--and I thought it was legit--he was really bad at it. I imagine Josh did have some larger ambition that probably matched the FRC job, but he seems to be content to just sit around and let Daddy get jobs for him and then coast on it because he's Josh Duggar. 

That describes almost every single one of his brothers, too.

[Zella]

29 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

That describes almost every single one of his brothers, too.

Very true! Though I suspect Josh probably had grander ambitions, such as they were, than most of the other Duggar boys, simply because he was brought up at the heir apparent. 

[Natalie68]

On 4/5/2022 at 9:48 AM, Zella said:

Josh has gotta cultivate a more preppy look to be a scam artist of Jim's caliber.  

Cat looks like it wants far away from them!

[cmr2014]

On 4/1/2022 at 3:16 PM, lascuba said:

Scandals 1 and 3 were shocking to me. The rumors about #1 had been a round for years but I always dismissed them for the most part as internet fan/hate fiction. Scandal 3--I had wanted to believe that 1 was an aberration, the actions of a teen boy who was more an opportunistic asshole rather than an actual pedophile.

This was what I thought, too. He was such an entitled little prick, and he'd been raised to think that girls were of no importance, so I thought he simply felt like he could do whatever he wanted to those girls.

I still lean toward thinking he's more of a sociopath and a sadist than a pedophile, but we keep hearing more and more things like "everyone at Big Sandy knew to keep their kids away from Josh," so I'm probably wrong again.

[Natalie68]

39 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

This was what I thought, too. He was such an entitled little prick, and he'd been raised to think that girls were of no importance, so I thought he simply felt like he could do whatever he wanted to those girls.

I still lean toward thinking he's more of a sociopath and a sadist than a pedophile, but we keep hearing more and more things like "everyone at Big Sandy knew to keep their kids away from Josh," so I'm probably wrong again.

I think he is all of the above:  Sociopath, sadist and pedophile

[Zella]

3 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

Cat looks like it wants far away from them!

That cat should be the patron saint of all snarkers. LOL 

[LilyD]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:16 AM, Zella said:

Very true! Though I suspect Josh probably had grander ambitions, such as they were, than most of the other Duggar boys, simply because he was brought up at the heir apparent. 

Probably like inheriting the big house all alone. He was the heir apparent and the only one seriously attempting to match the number of Duggar kids (so he would need the space) I’m sure JB would have found a way to make that happen at the cost of all the others.

And I also suspect that, in the back of his mind, he firmly believed he could win back TLC’s favors and get his own tv show if he Anna kept on producing more and more kids (despite his previous “mistake”) It seems like an easy and lazy way to make a decent amount of money without having to put much work in it. Especially because it falls to Anna to birth them all and look after them. Does she homeschool them btw? 

[Zella]

44 minutes ago, LilyD said:

if he Anna kept on producing more and more kids

I actually don't think Josh was the one who wanted all those kids. He seemed decidedly unenthused whenever she would announce another pregnancy. I think that was all Anna and that she very badly wanted to top Michelle's numbers or give her a run for her money. 

[LilyD]

4 hours ago, Zella said:

I actually don't think Josh was the one who wanted all those kids. He seemed decidedly unenthused whenever she would announce another pregnancy. I think that was all Anna and that she very badly wanted to top Michelle's numbers or give her a run for her money. 

Your reaction put a little smile to my face. I suddenly feel for the poor guy (NOT) And  if there is an element of truth in it, then Anna was more in control than I gave her credit for(which is what amused me).

Just imagine for a second: Poor Josh, “forced” to have all those babies…(and not the other way around) And he really has no clue on how to prevent pregnancies?  I can see how mom and dad knowingly kept this info from all their kids, they hate it and believe it causes miscarriages. But we know how Josh has become pretty proficient with the internet over the years, so he must have become a bit smarter about that. 

[ginger90]

I may not be recalling this accurately. I seem to recall Anna telling Josh she was pregnant, as Josh was waking up in bed. She was excited, and he just looked like he wanted to go back to sleep to escape.

Which child was this?

[GeeGolly]

34 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I may not be recalling this accurately. I seem to recall Anna telling Josh she was pregnant, as Josh was waking up in bed. She was excited, and he just looked like he wanted to go back to sleep to escape.

Which child was this?

I remember that too. Was it baby #3?

[dariafan]

It must have been a shock to him to not get his own spin-off and not realize he wasn’t the best liked Duggar.  Or even a liked 1

[greenturtle36]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I remember that too. Was it baby #3?

It was baby #4.  And every photo of Josh and Anna about the pregnancy of baby #4, he looked "thrilled" (sarcasm).  

Josh said in the beginning he'd be fine with "one or two".   Anna wanted all the kids.  I can't believe with as much independence and money he had in DC, he didn't go get a vasectomy.  But he probably believed the myth that a vasectomy makes sex less pleasurable, and refused to use condoms for that reason too.  

 

[emmawoodhouse]

12 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I may not be recalling this accurately. I seem to recall Anna telling Josh she was pregnant, as Josh was waking up in bed. She was excited, and he just looked like he wanted to go back to sleep to escape.

Which child was this?

Marcus. I'm about 95% sure. So yeah, he was already done by the third kid. 

[Hpmec]

18 hours ago, greenturtle36 said:

It was baby #4.  And every photo of Josh and Anna about the pregnancy of baby #4, he looked "thrilled" (sarcasm).  

Josh said in the beginning he'd be fine with "one or two".   Anna wanted all the kids.  I can't believe with as much independence and money he had in DC, he didn't go get a vasectomy.  But he probably believed the myth that a vasectomy makes sex less pleasurable, and refused to use condoms for that reason too.  

 

And those two barely knew each other before they tied the knot and were never alone together, so an issue as important as how many kids each realistically wanted never came up. She probably assumed that since they were both taught that children are blessings from God, he'd want a steady stream, too. Not so. He was done after that "1 or 2" but probably afraid to get a vasectomy in case someone found out and ratted him out. He was never concerned with the morality of his actions -- only with getting caught. Pest was born into the wrong family. He needed parents who would have recognized and dealt with his perversion with intense secular counseling from the getgo.Boob and Meech just let it fester until it boiled over. They shoulder much of the blame and should take a good hard look in the mirror on sentencing day. 
 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Hpmec

[Heathen]

18 hours ago, greenturtle36 said:

It was baby #4.  And every photo of Josh and Anna about the pregnancy of baby #4, he looked "thrilled" (sarcasm).  

Josh said in the beginning he'd be fine with "one or two".   Anna wanted all the kids.  I can't believe with as much independence and money he had in DC, he didn't go get a vasectomy.  But he probably believed the myth that a vasectomy makes sex less pleasurable, and refused to use condoms for that reason too.  

 

Or the SOTDRT taught him that vasectomy is the equivalent of castration. 

14 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Marcus. I'm about 95% sure. So yeah, he was already done by the third kid. 

Yes, he was clearly done by the third pregnancy. I feel sorry for Marcus and the subsequent Ms. Speaking from experience, it sucks to know your parent doesn't want you. 

[SusanM]

I will always remember Anna saying they hadn't "chosen their letter yet" when she was pregnant with the first baby.  Josh may not have been on board but right from the get go Anna clearly saw them as the next generation 19 kids and counting.  Wouldn't surprise me if she intended to hit the 20 mark.  Everytime I find myself feeling sorry for her I remind myself that she joined this family with her own agenda.  Didn't work out for her because she married Josh "it's all about ME" Smuggar.

[GeeGolly]

Fundy women don't have the best options for husbands, nor time to really get to know them, so I have no problem with Anna 'marrying up'. She lived in cramped quarters, in a family that seemed to be on a tight budget. Nothing wrong with recognizing that and "praying" for more.

I'm guessing in the world of Fundies, the Duggar brothers (excluding the Felon), are still considered a catch, in spite of their felon brother.

With that said, it didn't turn out all that great for Anna, but I don't begrudge her for trying (and sadly failing) to improve her life.

[SusanM]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

With that said, it didn't turn out all that great for Anna, but I don't begrudge her for trying (and sadly failing) to improve her life.

Agreed that she probably did think marrying a Duggar was a step up - where I grit my teeth with her is that she thought that popping out 19 kids was something to emulate.  Most crazy fundie families do seem to stop at some point before the hit that kind of mark.  I don't think (and of course this is just my opinion) that Anna intended to stop with a mere half dozen or so - she was shooting to surpass Michele and Jim Bob.  And that's on her.  I don't see any reason to believe that Josh wanted this.  Sure he doesn't seem to have actively tried to prevent it but I guess he figured Daddy would support them and Anna would do the raising so he would just go along for the ride.

 

[BigBingerBro]

Anna certainly had her eye on the prize in emulating MEShelle and becoming the 2.0 M version.   A life of free travel, houses, clothes, TV shows, on and on.  The bubble had now been burst many times over.  Makes me wonder if she thinks there may be some sort of redmeption for her and her family, thus the "There's more to the story" or whatever nonsense she posted.  

[YupItsMe]

2 hours ago, SusanM said:

I don't see any reason to believe that Josh wanted this.  Sure he doesn't seem to have actively tried to prevent it but I guess he figured Daddy would support them and Anna would do the raising so he would just go along for the ride.

 

Kind of worked out that way too.

[Minivanessa]

2 hours ago, SusanM said:

I don't think (and of course this is just my opinion) that Anna intended to stop with a mere half dozen or so - she was shooting to surpass Michele and Jim Bob.  And that's on her.  I don't see any reason to believe that Josh wanted this.  Sure he doesn't seem to have actively tried to prevent it but I guess he figured Daddy would support them and Anna would do the raising so he would just go along for the ride.

I think you nailed it there. IMO, it's not just as to how many kids his wife's popped out. The FF has been basically riding along on whatever his parents provide for him, all his life.

I think the only time he showed real initiative was landing the FRC job; I don't think JB would have set FF up in a job so far from the TTH. But of course the FRC job went poof - and the FF was back on his dad's payroll again. Going through the motions of running the "used car business" his dad gave him while indulging his nasty/criminal personal pleasures in the privacy of the car lot shed. I'm sure he never had to worry about where his next meal was coming from or how to pay the bills to keep the lights on at home. He's such a slug.

[LilyD]

I believe that Anna was told to be an obedient wife and mother to at least a dozen kids from the moment she was born. You’d need someone to show or tell you other ways and a good and lengthy exposure to the real world to change your views or consider other options. (Knowing those exist is not enough) and Anna had neither. She was just trying to lead the life she was taught and shown by growing up in that cult. So every new baby was probably a confirmation to her that she was doing exactly what God, her parents and her religious community expected from her. 
 

I have also wondered about her staunch support for Josh. And again, it wouldn’t surprise me if any doubts she voiced was silenced, “preached and prayed away” or talked out of her head by a continuous bombardment of her duties as a wife. And there is also another option; such religious cults are also known to use blackmail and threats: If you abandon your husband, you’ll be shunned or have your kids taken away. 
 

I’m no fan of Anna, but I don’t think her life or course of action is simple. Neither do I believe she has many options as a single, uneducated woman/mother with no real working experience, no funds and no family or friends to help her. (Just think about those who leave the Amish for instance. They no longer exist to their family, not even to their own parents…) The most likely scenario is that she is staying because she has no choice.

 

[Cinnabon]

19 hours ago, Hpmec said:

And those two barely knew each other before they tied the knot and were never alone together, so an issue as important as how many kids each realistically wanted never came up. She probably assumed that since they were both taught that children are blessings from God, he'd want a steady stream, too. Not so. He was done after that "1 or 2" but probably afraid to get a vasectomy in case someone found out and ratted him out. He was never concerned with the morality of his actions -- only with getting caught. Pest was born into the wrong family. He needed parents who would have recognized and dealt with his perversion with intense secular counseling from the getgo.Boob and Meech just let it fester until it boiled over. They shoulder much of the blame and should take a good hard look in the mirror on sentencing day. 
 

Want to take bets on whether or not MEshelle even shows up to the sentencing hearing?

[Cinnabon]

55 minutes ago, LilyD said:

I believe that Anna was told to be an obedient wife and mother to at least a dozen kids from the moment she was born. You’d need someone to show or tell you other ways and a good and lengthy exposure to the real world to change your views or consider other options. (Knowing those exist is not enough) and Anna had neither. She was just trying to lead the life she was taught and shown by growing up in that cult. So every new baby was probably a confirmation to her that she was doing exactly what God, her parents and her religious community expected from her. 
 

I have also wondered about her staunch support for Josh. And again, it wouldn’t surprise me if any doubts she voiced was silenced, “preached and prayed away” or talked out of her head by a continuous bombardment of her duties as a wife. And there is also another option; such religious cults are also known to use blackmail and threats: If you abandon your husband, you’ll be shunned or have your kids taken away. 
 

I’m no fan of Anna, but I don’t think her life or course of action is simple. Neither do I believe she has many options as a single, uneducated woman/mother with no real working experience, no funds and no family or friends to help her. (Just think about those who leave the Amish for instance. They no longer exist to their family, not even to their own parents…) The most likely scenario is that she is staying because she has no choice.

 

I think if Anna started a GoFundMe, she could raise some big bucks to start a new life. But she won’t. 

[Scarlett45]

Has anyones YouTube algorithm been giving them video analysis of Josh Duggar and his crimes? I haven’t watched any because we have discussed things here in depth, but I was just wondering.