Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[crazycatlady58]

1 minute ago, xwordfanatik said:

I guess they didn't worry about that.  Sad.

Well the girls could still get out of their room. 

[Mindthinkr]

15 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

Well the girls could still get out of their room. 

Not if it was locked on the outside (which was an option when we were first discussing in this conversation) when they were locked in. 

[GeeGolly]

Here's some interesting stats showing how messy this all is in the real world. 

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Here's some interesting stats showing how messy this all is in the real world. 

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

Thanks for the reminder that FF isn't the only person to not be prosecuted or serve time for child molestations and that the majority of these crimes are never reported to the police.  It's not a fundie thing or a Duggar thing; it's a human thing.

[SusanM]

Would someone remind me of when we can expect to see Smuggar sentenced?  I am so looking forward to this.  Even if he gets the  minimum sentence I'll be happy.  But I'll be even happier if he gets the proverbial book thrown at him!

[SMama]

Just now, SusannahM said:

Would someone remind me of when we can expect to see Smuggar sentenced?  I am so looking forward to this.  Even if he gets the  minimum sentence I'll be happy.  But I'll be even happier if he gets the proverbial book thrown at him!

I think in the first week of April.

[ginger90]

6 minutes ago, SMama said:

I think in the first week of April.

Yes, April 5th.

I haven’t seen anything about it being delayed.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, ginger90 said:

Yes, April 5th.

I haven’t seen anything about it being delayed.

Oh my goodness. That's just a little over two weeks away. I would love him to get 19 years, but I'm guessing he'll get 7.

[merylinkid]

As long as its not house arrest/probation, I am good with any sentence.   But the longer the better.

[sagittarius sue]

38 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Yes, April 5th.

I haven’t seen anything about it being delayed.

That's my brother's birthday.  Another reason to celebrate!

[lilwhitelion]

Emily D Baker covered this last night.  The defense applied for a 30-day continuance.  She couldn't believe it; as she said, they've known since early February that the sentencing is scheduled for April 5.  But as she continued to read the application to the Court, she saw that the prosecution didn't object, so she thinks the Court will grant the continuance request.  She thinks the Court doesn't want to ruffle the appellate court's feathers.

[SusanM]

49 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

As long as its not house arrest/probation, I am good with any sentence.   

Is that actually a possibility?  Yikes.

6 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

 The defense applied for a 30-day continuance.

Hopefully all this means is that he gets to wait in jail an extra month before he finds out which prison he's going to!

[lilwhitelion]

There is a five-year minimum sentence, so house arrest/probation in lieu is not possible.

She was salty because she planned to travel there from Franklin TN to attend the sentencing hearing.  Early May is her husband's birthday.

But then she put her lawyer hat on and explained that this is part of the due process for any defendant so she is resigned to it.

[Absolom]

19 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Emily D Baker covered this last night.  The defense applied for a 30-day continuance.  She couldn't believe it; as she said, they've known since early February that the sentencing is scheduled for April 5.  But as she continued to read the application to the Court, she saw that the prosecution didn't object, so she thinks the Court will grant the continuance request.  She thinks the Court doesn't want to ruffle the appellate court's feathers.

The court probably doesn't particularly care since Josh is locked up.  Sentencing is just determining where and how long. 

[GeeGolly]

Josh and his lawyers must think his county digs are better than wherever he'll end up, or otherwise they'd be moving to get him sentenced.

[Rootbeer]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Josh and his lawyers must think his county digs are better than wherever he'll end up, or otherwise they'd be moving to get him sentenced.

If nothing else, once he's sentenced and moved to a federal prison, he will be far, far away from his family.  I doubt Smuggar cares, but I expect Anna has asked the lawyers to try to keep him in Arkansas as long as possible and Smuggar pretends that he prefers that, too.

[BetyBee]

Maybe he'll be sentenced on Mother's Day. A gift for MOTY and his loving helpmeet. 

[CandyXmasTree]

3 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

If nothing else, once he's sentenced and moved to a federal prison, he will be far, far away from his family.  I doubt Smuggar cares, but I expect Anna has asked the lawyers to try to keep him in Arkansas as long as possible and Smuggar pretends that he prefers that, too.

But he won't be going to federal prison in Arkansas only a few federal prisons have have a set up for sex offenders.

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, CandyXmasTree said:

But he won't be going to federal prison in Arkansas only a few federal prisons have have a set up for sex offenders.

He can be sentenced to a federal prison in Arkansas. I’m guessing FCI Forrest City Low, because I doubt he’d go medium, but you never know. He could be transferred elsewhere at some point.

[Jeeves]

5 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

tI expect Anna has asked the lawyers to try to keep him in Arkansas as long as possible and Smuggar pretends that he prefers that, too.

 

1 hour ago, CandyXmasTree said:

But he won't be going to federal prison in Arkansas only a few federal prisons have have a set up for sex offenders.

I agree, it's unlikely he'll do federal time in Arkansas. I think the reference to Anna wanting to keep him in the state refers to the 30 day continuance of the sentencing hearing, which means he'll spend at least another 30 days in the local jail before being shipped off to the federal prison system.

[JoanArc]

5 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Maybe he'll be sentenced on Mother's Day. A gift for MOTY and his loving helpmeet. 

"Michelle, your MOTY award for 2022 is the adjoining cell" - if only!

[DXD526]

Has the Apr. 5 sentencing been rescheduled? I hope not, I have the day off, and was planning on spending much of it here and at DuggarsSnark!

[emmawoodhouse]

1 minute ago, DXD526 said:

Has the Apr. 5 sentencing been rescheduled? I hope not, I have the day off, and was planning on spending much of it here and at DuggarsSnark!

The judge hasn't ruled on the continuance yet. However, from the looks of things, there's no reason not to grant it.

[DXD526]

Quote

The judge hasn't ruled on the continuance yet. However, from the looks of things, there's no reason not to grant it.

😧 Distressed emoji! 😭

[LilyD]

Hi all, not from the US and some of the stuff above got me confused. Anyone care to enlighten me here?

What exactly is a 30 day continuance? It sounds like some sort of delay but that wouldn't make sense, would it? I mean, he'll only hear how long he needs to serve right?

I hear talks about prisons and federal prisons. So apparently there's a difference? Why would he have to go to a Federal prison? Also, can he (or relatives) ask to be placed somewhere in particular or does it happen randomly? E.g. someone from Oregon being imprisoned in Florida, which would be a nightmare for visiting relatives.

Last one; has it been said what sentence Josh likely gets? Are there any 'chances' his sentence is reduced over time (like good behaviour or time you already served while waiting to be sentenced)

Thanks in advance!

[Rootbeer]

6 hours ago, CandyXmasTree said:

But he won't be going to federal prison in Arkansas only a few federal prisons have have a set up for sex offenders.

Yes, that was my point.  Once he is sentenced, he will probably be sent to an out of state federal prison.  I presume Anna likes it that he is in Arkansas near her although I don't know that the jail has opened up for in-person visits yet.  I think Anna was probably happy when Josh' lawyers asked for a delay in sentencing because it keeps FF nearby for a while longer.  I think Josh might also say he wants to stay in Arkansas as long as possible, but I think he probably really doesn't give a cr** about it.

Quote

1 HOUR AGOWhat exactly is a 30 day continuance? It sounds like some sort of delay but that wouldn't make sense, would it? I mean, he'll only hear how long he needs to serve right?

I hear talks about prisons and federal prisons. So apparently there's a difference? Why would he have to go to a Federal prison? Also, can he (or relatives) ask to be placed somewhere in particular or does it happen randomly? E.g. someone from Oregon being imprisoned in Florida, which would be a nightmare for visiting relatives.

Last one; has it been said what sentence Josh likely gets? Are there any 'chances' his sentence is reduced over time (like good behaviour or time you already served while waiting to be sentenced)

Josh' lawyers have asked that his sentencing hearing be delayed for 30 days.  They have to give a reason like they need time to present information that would help the judge decide or they have other commitments and cannot attend. The defense is allowed to present information concerning the defendant and his life that might influence the judge to grant a lighter sentence  It doesn't mean the judge will grant it and it doesn't affect his sentence.  

Josh is currently in the local county jail because that is where prisoners who are awaiting trial and sentencing are held because it is in close proximity to the courthouse.  Some minor offenders might serve their sentences in the county jail, but it is not really meant for long term incarceration.  Since downloading CSA materials is a federal offense, Josh will be going to a federal prison.  If he had murdered someone or robbed a bank, there are state prisons.  It depends on whether it is the state or federal government that prosecuted the crime.  Josh and his family can request he be placed in a nearby facility but it is ultimately up to the federal prison system to decide where he goes based on the space available, the kinds of programs he might be eligible for and a host of other stuff.  Family being close enough to visit seems to not be a big priority in the prison system.

We will hear the exact sentence at the hearing but we know that the minimum sentence for Josh' crimes is 5 years.  There are all sorts of mitigating factors that could result in more time being tacked on including the sorts of images he downloaded (some of the very worst ones out there, we've been told) and he could be sentenced to decades in prison.  However, based on what other posters who work in the system have told us, he will probably get more than 5 but less than 10 years.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Rootbeer

[LilyD]

Thanks for explaining @Rootbeer, that was really helpful!

[SusanM]

12 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Josh' lawyers have asked that his sentencing hearing be delayed for 30 days.  They have to give a reason like they need time to present information that would help the judge decide or they have other commitments and cannot attend. The defense is allowed to present information concerning the defendant and his life that might influence the judge to grant a lighter sentence  It doesn't mean the judge will grant it and it doesn't affect his sentence.  

So this isn't a last minute ploy to have the conviction overturned?  If so I feel better.   I did wonder though, let's assume he gets 5 years - would that be 5 years less time served or 5 years starting the day he gets sentenced?

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, SusannahM said:

So this isn't a last minute ploy to have the conviction overturned?  If so I feel better.   I did wonder though, let's assume he gets 5 years - would that be 5 years less time served or 5 years starting the day he gets sentenced?

I would think credit for time served, that’s fair.

[Liddy52]

2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I would think credit for time served, that’s fair.

I agree, I think time served is usually factored in. Even though many of us would like to see Josh out of the picture for as long as possible,  I think the court should and will follow the same guidelines that would apply to anyone else. 

[GeeGolly]

The Felon's time in jail now, counts. That's why some who are held in jail during their trials actually get released when they are sentenced - they already served their time.

[SusanM]

Well I won't argue that time already served should be factored into how long he stays in jail after sentencing I agree that seems fair. However, I am just hoping that his sentence is at least enough over the minimum that he still ends up in federal prison for a full 5 years (and hopefully longer than that).  I just hate the idea of the Duggar's 'winning' anything here and that includes getting away with reducing time in the Big House.

Edited March 20, 2022 by SusannahM

[all fall down]

3 hours ago, SusannahM said:

So this isn't a last minute ploy to have the conviction overturned?  If so I feel better.   I did wonder though, let's assume he gets 5 years - would that be 5 years less time served or 5 years starting the day he gets sentenced?

There is also a separate motion by the defense to have the conviction overturned/a new trial (that was the whole thing about the defense not being "allowed" to call Caleb Williams). The government responded with their points, and the defence countered. I don't think we have had a ruling on that yet, unless I missed it. I wonder if that will be addressed at the sentencing hearing?

Edited March 20, 2022 by christine falls

[Rootbeer]

14 minutes ago, christine falls said:

There is also a separate motion by the defense to have the conviction overturned/a new trial (that was the whole thing about the defense not being "allowed" to call Caleb Williams). The government responded with their points, and the defence countered. I don't think we have had a ruling on that yet, unless I missed it. I wonder if that will be addressed at the sentencing hearing?

I'm pretty sure the sentencing hearing is just that and any issues with the validity of the trial and conviction are not relevant to the sentence and won't even be mentioned at that time.  The judge will issue an opinion on the motion for a new trial at some other time.  In addition, the judge who will do the sentencing is the same one who presided over the trial while the motion for a new trial goes to a different judge for review.

[dariafan]

On 3/19/2022 at 7:54 PM, DXD526 said:

Has the Apr. 5 sentencing been rescheduled? I hope not, I have the day off, and was planning on spending much of it here and at DuggarsSnark!

You can still spend it with us ….

[hathorlive]

On 3/19/2022 at 12:10 PM, SusannahM said:

Is that actually a possibility?  Yikes.

Hopefully all this means is that he gets to wait in jail an extra month before he finds out which prison he's going to!

NO. The fed's don't offer home detention for federal charges.  Minimum will be 5 years, max is 20 and more than likely, he'll get 8 to 13 years.  I really think the judge dislikes him, but he'll give Josh a sentence in line with others who have downloaded and receipt/possession.  Larger sentences are for contact offenders and those who abuse and create CP, along with distribution. 

[dariafan]

I don’t think the family knows how to process having to take actual responsibility and punishment for their actions. Honestly I don’t think smugs has any idea what he is really in for    

[sue450]

On 3/12/2022 at 6:54 AM, merylinkid said:

No matter what it was going to be messy.   but the Duggars did not really try.   Their solution, lock the GIRLS in their room at night.   Why not Josh?   Why were the VICTIMS' movements restricted and not the perpetrator.   Oh right, they sent him to Jesus jail for a bit.  Oh darn.   Then he came right home and got treated as extra special still.   He had all the cool electronics and his own room away from the maddening crowd.   The girls, still on duty, which included making sure Josh got treated as extra special and waiting on  him hand and foot.   

So no Ma and Pa Duggar don't get a "they tried their best" from me.

you left out "stern talk" from jim bobs trooper friend who turned out to  have kiddy porn on HIS computer and is serving a really long  sentence  ( he was already jailed for this after the josh talk) 

[GeeGolly]

Letting the sisters have locks on their bedroom door was not about restricting anyone's movement. It was about allowing them to be safe while they slept and dressed. I think that was very empowering for the sisters, as it put them in control. I'm not sure how that is seen as bad.

[birkenstock]

The sisters lost the ability to use the bathroom at night or do so knowing Josh could be around without parental oversight. They didn't move into the big house until several years after the molestations.  Josh was the problem and the burden was placed on them to find ways not to be assaulted.

Edited March 23, 2022 by birkenstock

[merylinkid]

43 minutes ago, sue450 said:

you left out "stern talk" from jim bobs trooper friend who turned out to  have kiddy porn on HIS computer and is serving a really long  sentence  ( he was already jailed for this after the josh talk) 

Oh yes how could I forget that part.

Why do I think the stern talk consisted of "dude, if you are going to do stuff like that, leave your sisters alone, here is where you can find what you like on the internet.   And here's how you don't get caught."

[Bizee]

I wonder if the focus on CP in the current SC hearing this week will sway the judge to not be lenient.  

[sue450]

the ultimatem  irony  (not that josh would go for it) is that josh could get a college education while in jail

[Quilt Fairy]

New sentencing date is May 25. 

[Scarlett45]

26 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

New sentencing date is May 25. 

Thank you for the update. 

[BetyBee]

3 hours ago, sue450 said:

the ultimatem  irony  (not that josh would go for it) is that josh could get a college education while in jail

Maybe JimBob will decide to let all of his kids go to prison to get a free education. He's a genius when it comes to saving money. At least that's what I've heard 😉

[iwantcookies]

https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-sentencing-hearing-ichild-pornography-case-pushed-to-may/

[MaryAnneSpier]

47 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

Maybe JimBob will decide to let all of his kids go to prison to get a free education. He's a genius when it comes to saving money. At least that's what I've heard 😉

But it's not Godly education! It's from the government/evil liberals!! Not okay in Duggar world!

[iwantcookies]

Sluggish smuggar will not bother getting a degree in prison. He will probably gain 50 pounds and that’s it.

[SusanM]

3 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

New sentencing date is May 25. 

I just mentioned this to my husband (I had to vent to someone!) and he gave me the Stare of Ignorance.  Sigh.  I swear I've mentioned the Duggars to him in the past and told him about the conviction.  Clearly he does not retain this kind of vitally important information.  Thank god for all of you!