Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Mindthinkr]

40 minutes ago, ALittleShelfish said:

Do you think that JB is just *so* delusional and narcissistic that he might try to shop a jailhouse interview with Josh to another network as a last ditch effort to convince someone/anyone of Josh's innocence (or at least some sympathy)? 

 

He could try, but I don’t see him following through or allowing it unless he is guaranteed control of the narrative. 

[Absolom]

Here's a sample from Terminal Island:

Quote

The Unit Manager will review all prospective visiting applications after the investigation process is completed. A prospective visitor with any drug-related conviction, or any other serious convictions in his/her background, requires the approval of the Warden before being approved for placement on

TRM 5267.09A

March 16, 2018

Page 3

the inmate’s visiting list.

c. Immediate family members will ordinarily be approved to visit. Other relatives, friends, and associates will require background reviews and the approval of the Unit Team. Overall, up to 20 visitors may be placed on an inmate’s visiting list.

Once Josh is assigned a location, their specific regulations may be online.  

[ginger90]

APPROVED VISITORS: Visits are permitted for those on the inmate's approved visiting list as authorized by the Unit Team. Only 20 visitors inclusive of immediate family, friends, or associates, will be permitted on each inmate's visiting list. This limit does not include the inmate’s attorney or minister of record.
 It is the responsibility of the inmate to advise his visitor(s) not to visit prior to receiving notification they have been approved as visitors. 
 

 

The visitor(s) should be placed on the approved list after suitable investigation from the usual sources, i.e., pre-sentence reports, U.S. Probation Officer, local law enforcement agencies, individuals concerned, etc. Except for immediate family, visitors will not ordinarily be placed on more than one inmate's approved visiting list. Any exceptions must have prior approval by the Associate Warden for the FCI, or Camp Administrator for the Camp.
a. Immediate Family: These persons include parents, step-parents, foster parents, siblings, spouse, and children.
b. Children Under Sixteen: Children under the age of 16 may not visit unless accompanied by a responsible adult. Children will be kept under supervision of a responsible adult or a children’s program. Exceptions in unusual circumstances may be made by special approval of the Warden. Minor children will not count against the 20 visitors authorized on the inmate’s visiting list. All minor children will be on the approved visiting list.
The signature of a parent or legal guardian on the Visitor Information form (BP-629) is necessary to process a request for an applicant under 18 years of age. Ordinarily, completing the questionnaire portion of this form (items 1 through 14) is not required if such an applicant is a verified immediate family member of the requesting inmate.
c. Volunteers: Persons who are approved as institution volunteers, who have a volunteer I.D. badge, may not be approved as regular visitors unless approved in writing by the Regional Director. The only exception to this is the Prisoner Visitation and Support (PVS) visitors.

 

https://www.bop.gov

[Cinnabon]

14 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

APPROVED VISITORS: Visits are permitted for those on the inmate's approved visiting list as authorized by the Unit Team. Only 20 visitors inclusive of immediate family, friends, or associates, will be permitted on each inmate's visiting list. This limit does not include the inmate’s attorney or minister of record.
 It is the responsibility of the inmate to advise his visitor(s) not to visit prior to receiving notification they have been approved as visitors. 
 

 

The visitor(s) should be placed on the approved list after suitable investigation from the usual sources, i.e., pre-sentence reports, U.S. Probation Officer, local law enforcement agencies, individuals concerned, etc. Except for immediate family, visitors will not ordinarily be placed on more than one inmate's approved visiting list. Any exceptions must have prior approval by the Associate Warden for the FCI, or Camp Administrator for the Camp.
a. Immediate Family: These persons include parents, step-parents, foster parents, siblings, spouse, and children.
b. Children Under Sixteen: Children under the age of 16 may not visit unless accompanied by a responsible adult. Children will be kept under supervision of a responsible adult or a children’s program. Exceptions in unusual circumstances may be made by special approval of the Warden. Minor children will not count against the 20 visitors authorized on the inmate’s visiting list. All minor children will be on the approved visiting list.
The signature of a parent or legal guardian on the Visitor Information form (BP-629) is necessary to process a request for an applicant under 18 years of age. Ordinarily, completing the questionnaire portion of this form (items 1 through 14) is not required if such an applicant is a verified immediate family member of the requesting inmate.
c. Volunteers: Persons who are approved as institution volunteers, who have a volunteer I.D. badge, may not be approved as regular visitors unless approved in writing by the Regional Director. The only exception to this is the Prisoner Visitation and Support (PVS) visitors.

 

https://www.bop.gov

Thanks!

[Zella]

4 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:

Admittedly, I haven't followed this family as closely as many of you, so forgive me if this is "LOL stop just get out" stupid of a question....

Do you think that JB is just *so* delusional and narcissistic that he might try to shop a jailhouse interview with Josh to another network as a last ditch effort to convince someone/anyone of Josh's innocence (or at least some sympathy)? 

I'm sure the IDEA of it makes Jessa think "Please don't do that to my mentions." lol

I don't think it's a stupid question at all, but I also have a hard time seeing Jim Bob doing this. (Granted, any time I think "Oh not even the Duggars are that dumb," they usually disappoint me. LOL) 

I think they got so much blowback from the last national interview to counter a scandal that, even though it was a softball, they're probably pretty gun shy about doing that again. 

The statement they released after he was found guilty, though not great, also wasn't as defensive about Josh as I'd expected. I think they may have come to terms with the fact that he is going to prison, regardless of whatever delusions may exist about his guilt. 

In any event, I think if Jim Bob's mind was veering that way, we would have seen a more proactive defense of Josh on their social media by now. As is, they seem to be taking a page from Frank Drebin on PR.

[GeeGolly]

I think secretly and quietly, JB & M are breathing a sigh of relief that the Felon is out of their hair for a while. The public damage is done and short of Josh getting out on appeal, the saga is over.

Anna on the other hand is the wild card. She's probably Googling file in cake as we speak.

[Quilt Fairy]

5 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:

Do you think that JB is just *so* delusional and narcissistic that he might try to shop a jailhouse interview with Josh to another network as a last ditch effort to convince someone/anyone of Josh's innocence (or at least some sympathy)? 

I'm not sure about the Federal BOP rules, but most prisons do not allow this.  Prisons are not open, transparent places.  In general, the press and the public are not allowed to see behind the curtain. 

It's unlikely Josh will be in solitary for a couple of reasons.  First, outside of NWA (and this thread) he's not much of a celebrity.  He's not Subway Jared level famous.  Second, sadly there are too many sex offenders in prison for them all to be in solitary.  That's why they have so many institutions where they are the primary population. 

[merylinkid]

10 hours ago, ginger90 said:

The visitor(s) should be placed on the approved list after suitable investigation from the usual sources, i.e., pre-sentence reports, U.S. Probation Officer, local law enforcement agencies, individuals concerned, etc. Except for immediate family, visitors will not ordinarily be placed on more than one inmate's approved visiting list. Any exceptions must have prior approval by the Associate Warden for the FCI, or Camp Administrator for the Camp.

Now this will be interesting.   Sounds like visitors have to pass a background check.  

[Rabbittron]

10 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Thanks. I couldn’t find anything about the limit of 20, either. 

Englewood Prison in Colorado has a limit to  3 visitors each visit  and visits are allowed once or twice  a  week  but attorneys are unlimited visits.

[SnapHappy]

The moment dumpling exits the big house, Jim Bob (if he's still alive) could hand him another "used car lot" to run. 

Nowhere does it say he's got to work for any of his little brothers, or that Jim Bob would require that.  Plenty of felons own LLC's.  They could keep setting them up while he's IN prison, as long as others are involved.

He could be right back in the middle of Dugger Inc. within a day of his release.  

I don't see his post-prison life changing a bit, as long as his father is running the show. 

[Rabbittron]

He will always be golden boy. 

[GeeGolly]

56 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

The moment dumpling exits the big house, Jim Bob (if he's still alive) could hand him another "used car lot" to run. 

Nowhere does it say he's got to work for any of his little brothers, or that Jim Bob would require that.  Plenty of felons own LLC's.  They could keep setting them up while he's IN prison, as long as others are involved.

He could be right back in the middle of Dugger Inc. within a day of his release.  

I don't see his post-prison life changing a bit, as long as his father is running the show. 

The problem I see is internet access. If a condition of the Felon's release is no internet, even working independently, or with the brothers, will be difficult, as the internet is part of the job. Plus, no access or full access, I'm not sure JB is going to want his name tied to the risk of Josh screwing up again. I'm guessing he'll likely be put on manual labor duty, behind the scenes.

[SnapHappy]

Kings and Princes have minions to do the grunt work. 

There's plenty of decision making that can be done after looking at physical inventory, printouts, trade magazines, faxes, and then making phone calls from a land line.   

They aren't so far removed from their previous poverty that they can't go back to old-school.  May even be easier for them.  

[Jeeves]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

The problem I see is internet access. If a condition of the Felon's release is no internet, even working independently, or with the brothers, will be difficult, as the internet is part of the job. Plus, no access or full access, I'm not sure JB is going to want his name tied to the risk of Josh screwing up again. I'm guessing he'll likely be put on manual labor duty, behind the scenes.

JB is no genius, but I don't think he'd set FF up in another little one-person hut where he would be supposedly conducting "business" all on his own. We all have seen how that went. I don't know that a court could deny all internet access for any reason to a person, given how the world works now. In the absence of evidence that he harmed any of his own kids I don't think a court could order FF to not live with his own minor children. We're years away from the end of FF's custodial sentence, so who knows what will happen then - I don't. But I doubt he'll be essentially placed under house arrest, or denied all internet access, or not allowed to live with his own children. Just saying.

[Cinnabon]

21 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

JB is no genius, but I don't think he'd set FF up in another little one-person hut where he would be supposedly conducting "business" all on his own. We all have seen how that went. I don't know that a court could deny all internet access for any reason to a person, given how the world works now. In the absence of evidence that he harmed any of his own kids I don't think a court could order FF to not live with his own minor children. We're years away from the end of FF's custodial sentence, so who knows what will happen then - I don't. But I doubt he'll be essentially placed under house arrest, or denied all internet access, or not allowed to live with his own children. Just saying.

I think I’ve seen cases where judges have denied internet privileges. I’ll do some research. 

[ginger90]

Regarding use of the internet after release:

 

Conditions of Supervision

Federal statutory and guideline provisions set forth several mandatory or discretionary conditions of supervised release applicable to sex offenders generally, including both production and non-production child pornography offenders. A discussion of such conditions — including legal challenges by offenders — appears in the Commission’s 2010 report, Federal Offenders Sentenced to Supervised Release. Common conditions include psycho-sexual assessments and treatment (including the requirement of polygraph testing), outright bans or limitations on the use of computers and the Internet, and limitations on offenders’ ability to be near children (including their own) without supervision. Appellate courts generally have upheld such conditions as reasonable so long as they are “narrowly tailored” and are “reasonably related” to the effective supervision and rehabilitation of child pornography offenders based on specific facts in the record supporting the need for such conditions.
For instance, due to the now nearly ubiquitous use of Internet-enabled computers to commit child pornography offenses, district courts often impose a condition of supervision that restricts a child pornography offender from using a computer or the Internet without the prior approval of the supervising probation officer. Circuit courts generally have upheld such restrictions, even those for a substantial period of time, if an offender did more than simply use an Internet-enabled computer to collect child pornography (either by distributing child pornography via a computer or by attempting to communicate with a minor for sexual purposes).

However, in cases where the record shows that an offender used a computer and the Internet solely to collect child pornography, some courts have considered a ban unreasonable because “such a ban renders modern life — in which, for example, the government strongly encourages taxpayers to file their returns electronically, where more and more commerce is conducted on-line, and where vast amounts of government information are communicated via website — exceptionally difficult.”

 

*I left out footnotes. The whole article is here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/news/congressional-testimony-and-reports/sex-offense-topics/201212-federal-child-pornography-offenses/Chapter_10.pdf

[GeeGolly]

They all should enjoy their peace now. I think the Duggars will live with daily stress waiting for the Felon to screw up. The way I see it playing out is Josh sneaking peeks of legal porn on friends' devices, before he tries to secure a phone no one knows he has. I'm guessing the courts will at least impose restrictions of accessing porn sites, legal and illegal - something I don't think the Felon is capable of avoiding. 

I don't think Josh will last a year without screwing up, with or without restrictions. He'll just get caught sooner if he has restrictions imposed.

[Cinnabon]

A cursory search turned up this:

https://www.uscourts.gov/services-forms/computer-internet-restrictions-probation-supervised-release-conditions
 

[Cinnabon]

More research found:

Packingham v. North Carolina

Packingham v. North Carolina, 582 U.S. ___ (2017), is a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that a North Carolina statute that prohibited registered sex offenders from using social media websites is unconstitutional because it violates the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects the freedom of speech.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packingham_v._North_Carolina

 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

5 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Now this will be interesting.   Sounds like visitors have to pass a background check.  

Sure do. I used to run background checks when I worked at a prison.  We ran state and FBI databases. 

[farmgal4]

On 2/23/2022 at 10:41 AM, Jeeves said:

I'm sure Anna will be all in for personal visits. Before she got married, didn't she help her dad with his prison ministry? She may have more experience than we think with visiting prisons. I don't know if Pa Keller's prison ministry included holding meetings/services or was limited to one on one visits with prisoners and I don't know for sure if Anna set foot in any lockups. But I thought I read somewhere that she had somehow helped her dad, so who knows.

Anyway, as an inmate's wife she won't get any special treatment like a visiting minister would, and this is the federal system, not the local/state lockups that she may have visited with her dad's ministry gigs. She may find the personal visiting experience upsetting, and if she has to travel far, JB may not be generous with the use of the Duggar Aviation planes for that purpose.

Not that she may be allowed to visit frequently. The BOP info page on visitation says an inmate by law gets at least four hours of visitation per month although many institutions allow more than that. I believe the pandemic has impacted the visitation system but assume those restrictions will eventually be lifted. If the FF is limited to four or even eight hours a month of visits, Anna will be very very displeased. 

But regardless of the limits on personal visits, they can write to the FF, and I'm sure he'll get plenty of written communications, heavy on the religious content. I just don't think JB will leave him alone, we know Anna's not going to, and good old Pa Keller has a custom-made recipient of his mission to save souls in prison, right there in the family. I expect the FF to do his usual passive/sneaky thing and basically blow it all off while paying lip service to the family. 

What are the chances of Smugs learning a trade while he’s incarcerated or taking some college classes or working for pay? (some prisons have sort of a small scale factory where inmates can work everyday and make a little money) Is he too lazy to do something like that?

Forgive me if this has already been discussed! 

[MaryAnneSpier]

16 hours ago, ALittleShelfish said:

Admittedly, I haven't followed this family as closely as many of you, so forgive me if this is "LOL stop just get out" stupid of a question....

Do you think that JB is just *so* delusional and narcissistic that he might try to shop a jailhouse interview with Josh to another network as a last ditch effort to convince someone/anyone of Josh's innocence (or at least some sympathy)? 

I'm sure the IDEA of it makes Jessa think "Please don't do that to my mentions." lol

Honestly, I wouldn't put anything past JB at this point. If it brings in money or attention he will consider it. Proof of this: his running for political office right in the midst of Josh's arrest and trial followed by his and Michelle's appearance in a parade. 
I think "he and Michelle" (aka: a ghostwriter) will release a book in the next year or two titled something like "Faith During the Storm" or something along those lines, talking about how their faith in God became stronger in the middle of trials and tribulations, and how their family have leaned on each other and become closer, etc. 

[Natalie68]

On 2/23/2022 at 4:29 AM, Westiepeach said:

Plus, FF will also be a way different person when he gets out of prison as well.

I am curious if he goes full sloth and blows up to 400 lbs or decides to work out.  Who am I kidding?  FULL SLOTH!

[smittykins]

7 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

What are the chances of Smugs learning a trade while he’s incarcerated or taking some college classes or working for pay? (some prisons have sort of a small scale factory where inmates can work everyday and make a little money) Is he too lazy to do something like that?

Forgive me if this has already been discussed! 

I imagine that college classes are a privilege he’d have to earn.  He probably could learn a trade if he wanted to, but I seriously doubt he has the initiative(and, as mentioned before, his employment prospects, outside of working for the family, would be severely limited).

Edited February 24, 2022 by smittykins

[GeeGolly]

Wherever the Felon ends up, he'll be costing tax payers about $100 per day.

[Cinnabon]

56 minutes ago, smittykins said:

I imagine that college classes are a privilege he’d have to earn.  He probably could learn a trade if he wanted to, but I seriously doubt he has the initiative(and, as mentioned before, his employment prospects, outside of working for the family, would be severely limited).

If he learned a trade from professionals, he’d come out more qualified than his siblings. 

[Ijustwantsomechips]

18 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

If he learned a trade from professionals, he’d come out more qualified than his siblings. 

As a former corrections employee, I can attest to the fact that prisons are a bastion of talent and skills. You wouldn’t believe the wasted potential.

[Rabbittron]

2 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

If he learned a trade from professionals, he’d come out more qualified than his siblings. 

Now is his chance to get real schooling so he could become a lawyer like he always wanted.

[emmawoodhouse]

8 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

Now is his chance to get real schooling so he could become a lawyer like he always wanted.

But then he'd have to do actual WORK. I think he'd be happier sitting on his fat ass at one of Boob's car lots all day. Little to do than call Anna all day if he's not permitted internet access (but social media is okay? Alrighty then.)

[Rabbittron]

He will get around the restriction for the  internet by saying he has to fill out the paperwork and email it to the DMV.

[SMama]

1 hour ago, Rabbittron said:

He will get around the restriction for the  internet by saying he has to fill out the paperwork and email it to the DMV.

One his his brothers can take care of Internet related tasks. 

[SnapHappy]

SO funny if dumpling managed to get educated behind bars & then pass the Arkansas bar before Derplick does.  

Edited February 25, 2022 by SnapHappy

[Absolom]

By the time Josh could take all the courses required Derick will have passed or given up years earlier.

[Cinnabon]

Josh would need to finish his high school level classes first. I don’t particularly like Derick, but there’s no comparison with their educations 🤷‍♀️

[ginger90]

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-defense-team-granted-another-extension/

[emmawoodhouse]

3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/josh-duggar-defense-team-granted-another-extension/

In Gelfand's plea for extension, he noted that he basically hadn't had time to look at the prosecution's filing from two weeks ago. Oops.

[LilyD]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:44 AM, ALittleShelfish said:

Admittedly, I haven't followed this family as closely as many of you, so forgive me if this is "LOL stop just get out" stupid of a question....

Do you think that JB is just *so* delusional and narcissistic that he might try to shop a jailhouse interview with Josh to another network as a last ditch effort to convince someone/anyone of Josh's innocence (or at least some sympathy)? 

It’s definitely not a dumb question, and like someone else mentioned, the Duggars have done more dumb things over the years. I’m sure something like this has crossed JB’s mind and probably more than once. He loves publicity and money.

But, I don’t think he will though. I believe he’ll support Josh privately, but pull his hands off his son publicly. He must have realized there’s too much at stake here. JB will probably try to salvage as much of the Duggar brand (or what's left of it) as he possibly can. Also, quite a few Duggars have set up their own ventures, whether business or political and again, you do not want the constant publicity about a family member in jail. That won’t do their careers any good.

[Albanyguy]

17 minutes ago, LilyD said:

I’m sure something like this has crossed JB’s mind and probably more than once. He loves publicity and money.

But, I don’t think he will though. I believe he’ll support Josh privately, but pull his hands off his son publicly. He must have realized there’s too much at stake here. JB will probably try to salvage as much of the Duggar brand (or what's left of it) as he possibly can.

I think Jim Bob is hoping that eventually the scandal will die down and he'll be able to peddle a new TV show to one of the low-rent cable networks. It won't be like their glory days at TLC, the audience will be smaller, and the money won't be as good, but at least he, Michelle and the kids would be able to get their mugs back on TV.  

I doubt if that will ever happen, but who knows? TLC dropped "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" after Mama June was caught hooking up with the dirtbag who molested her daughter. Everyone thought she was gone for good, but WE TV picked her up for a new show called "Mama June: From Not to Hot" and after her drug and alcohol addictions spiraled out of control, WE gave her a second show called "Mama June: Road to Redemption". So, I wouldn't rule out ever seeing the Duggars on TV again.

What will probably keep this from happening is that Jim Bob would insist that any new show portray the Duggars as a wholesome Christian family and any network that picks them up will probably only want them as a freak show, like Mama June.

[Boxer Woman]

On 2/18/2022 at 2:08 AM, Zella said:

My guess is the apparent lack of offenses from this time are probably more due to him just not having been caught than an actual halt, but I could be wrong.

For sure.  Ever since the details of his most recent arrest came out I've been wondering about why the whole child porn downloading thing seems concentrated on a few day period.  Why would he do all this to his computer, having someone set up a Linux partition, install TOR and Bittorrent, just to use it for a few days then just stop?  And if he hadn't accessed child porn online in the last few months, why would he immediately jump to that conclusion when cops showed up and ask them about it?  My guess is that he got a clue and installed a VPN after those first few days of downloading stuff.

The one prostitute came out against him but undoubtedly there were more.  She just happened to be aware enough of who he was.  Josh has gotten away with a whole hell of a lot without being caught, as is typical of most criminals.

I'm new here, just read last few pages of this thread attempting to "multi-quote" and respond to various posts, but it doesn't seem to be working.  I will learn.  In the meantime, these comments are directed at various previous comments.

Prostitutes can easily be found online without spending much money.  They're usually called "escorts," lots have their own websites, also there is advertising on hookup/affair type sites like Ashley Madison which we already know Josh was using.  I think when Josh was working in D.C., and also after that back in Arkansas, that he would have had easily enough money to hire these types of women for encounters and definitely did way more than has ever even been accused.  Even without the hundreds per hour high end "escorts" typically cost, he could have found super cheap drug addict hookers on Craigslist or Backpage totally willing to let him do whatever, without telling anyone, not even knowing or caring who the hell he is, to get their next fix.  I hope Anna has had STD testing.

Hasn't it been pretty much established already that "used car dealer" is the highest level Josh can go?  He can't figure out how to rip anyone off without getting caught more than in that business.

Maybe Josh will cross over into "Love After Lockup" and start getting various crazy women to start supporting him in prison (you know lots of crazies are already writing to him, buying him fattening commissary snacks which have already been posted about), then he gets out and fumbles around with trying to have various affairs under Anna's nose.  That would be mad entertainment.

To whoever posted about I think whether he'll work out or fatten up even more, more fatter for absolute certain.  Anna and lots of other people will keep him ultra-supplied with junk food.  He might be ready for Dr. Now by the time he's released lol.

Has no one besides me considered the sickening possibility of Josh having possibly stored semen so Anna could keep getting pregnant however long he's gone, with a fresh batch of kids waiting for him whenever he gets out?  I think I only thought of this because I'm about to pay a few thousand $$ for my dog to get pregnant by a police dog who died over 15 years ago with frozen semen, so I'm maybe too aware of possibilities of pregnancy without any actual sex.  I totally hope Josh is away long enough that he no longer has any young children of his own at his disposal and Anna can no longer get pregnant then.

[GeeGolly]

Please forgive me because this damn soapbox keeps creeping under my feet. I guess its one of the hazards of fighting for, and lifting, up the many marginalized folks out there. Can we be mindful that all women in the sex industry are somebody's daughter/mother/sister/aunt? As are women who struggle with drug issues. Many have stories that would make Hercules look weak. I find labeling them, even unintentionally, as those types of women or cheap drug addict hookers, perpetuates the thought sex workers are lowly humans unworthy of support and respect.

Feel free to push me off my soapbox now. 

[merylinkid]

18 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

In Gelfand's plea for extension, he noted that he basically hadn't had time to look at the prosecution's filing from two weeks ago. Oops.

Ehh.   This is not their only case.   If something big were popping in another case, reviewing this filing would not be a high priority.   The fact the government does not oppose says its not a big deal to ask for this extension.    Sentencing is still a month away.   I guarantee the judge isn't going to look at anything related to the sentencing reports until the end of March.   So whether its files, this week or two weeks from now really doesn't matter.

[ginger90]

Letting 2 weeks go by, when you are aware of what you received, and there is action on your part needed, is irresponsible in the real world.

[wilsie]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Please forgive me because this damn soapbox keeps creeping under my feet. I guess its one of the hazards of fighting for, and lifting, up the many marginalized folks out there. Can we be mindful that all women in the sex industry are somebody's daughter/mother/sister/aunt? As are women who struggle with drug issues. Many have stories that would make Hercules look weak. I find labeling them, even unintentionally, as those types of women or cheap drug addict hookers, perpetuates the thought sex workers are lowly humans unworthy of support and respect.

Feel free to push me off my soapbox now. 

No pushing here.  Re-posting since I agree with every word and think it can't be said enough.  Thank you for your kindness and caring.

[GeeGolly]

40 minutes ago, wilsie said:

No pushing here.  Re-posting since I agree with every word and think it can't be said enough.  Thank you for your kindness and caring.

Thank-you Wilsie, thank-you very much.

[wilsie]

48 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Thank-you Wilsie, thank-you very much.

You're very welcome.  I think it was very brave of you to put your original statement out there.

[Spazamanaz]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Please forgive me because this damn soapbox keeps creeping under my feet. I guess its one of the hazards of fighting for, and lifting, up the many marginalized folks out there. Can we be mindful that all women in the sex industry are somebody's daughter/mother/sister/aunt? As are women who struggle with drug issues. Many have stories that would make Hercules look weak. I find labeling them, even unintentionally, as those types of women or cheap drug addict hookers, perpetuates the thought sex workers are lowly humans unworthy of support and respect.

Feel free to push me off my soapbox now. 

I totally agree with you.  I don't think any young girl ( or boy) grows up with dreams of becoming a sex worker and or addicted to drugs. They deserve compassion and understanding. Labels hurt and discriminate.  Thank you for standing up and speaking volumes GEEGOLLY.  (maybe you stand on that soapbox more often!)

[MsJamieDornan]

21 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I think Jim Bob is hoping that eventually the scandal will die down and he'll be able to peddle a new TV show to one of the low-rent cable networks.

I'm hoping some cable network bypasses JBoob and approaches a few of the kids, probably the married ones and offers them something. And they get their own contract and the boob has nothing to do with any of it.

[crazy8s]

9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Please forgive me because this damn soapbox keeps creeping under my feet. I guess its one of the hazards of fighting for, and lifting, up the many marginalized folks out there. Can we be mindful that all women in the sex industry are somebody's daughter/mother/sister/aunt? As are women who struggle with drug issues. Many have stories that would make Hercules look weak. I find labeling them, even unintentionally, as those types of women or cheap drug addict hookers, perpetuates the thought sex workers are lowly humans unworthy of support and respect.

yes, mindful of all that, but even without being that in relation to someone else, we can be mindful they are someone in their own right as well.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I'm hoping some cable network bypasses JBoob and approaches a few of the kids, probably the married ones and offers them something. And they get their own contract and the boob has nothing to do with any of it.

Nah, I don’t. I don’t think anybody wants to watch Duggar 3.0. As it is now, they are all interchangeable and, let’s face it, more boring than watching paint dry. Now, if it is about one of them breaking away big time and spilling all the tea, we’ll talk.

[SusanM]

8 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Ehh.   This is not their only case. 

Wait you mean the world is not revolving solely around the Duggars??  This is going to come as a big shock to that family!