Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Missy Vixen]

I can't wait for Josh to be back home, listening to Jim Bob's idiotic droning. Suddenly Josh just blurts out - "I've fucked more woman than you!". I'd love to see Jim Bob's face. I'd be Ok with TLC filming stuff like that.

Even better if Jim Boob comes back with "Wanna' bet?"

[sometimesy]

More "news" on the civil suit

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3401835/Josh-Duggar-s-sex-assault-suit-heats-judge-demands-porn-star-Danica-Dillon-prove-two-intimate-violent-paying-intercourse.html

"Josh Duggar may be in for a bit of a break in his sex assault lawsuit or about to have more details of his personal life go very public as a judge has demanded that the porn star who is suing him in court provide proof that the two had sex.

Danica Dillon filed a complaint in November saying Duggar manhandled her in a way that 'felt as if she were being raped' after allegedly paying her for sex.

Dillon, whose real name is Ashley Stamm-Northup, claims these incidents occurred in March and April after Duggar approached her while she was stripping at clubs in Philadelphia.

Duggar claimed he had never even met Dillon or been to the strip club she was at in his most recent motion, while also saying he had an alibi for one of the dates in question."

Re the bolded. How do you prove you had sex with someone after this much time? How are the Cosby women providing proof? Just curious.

[GeeGolly]

Re the bolded. How do you prove you had sex with someone after this much time? How are the Cosby women providing proof? Just curious.

Maybe they all have blue dresses.

[LilyoftheValley]

You don't provide proof; you just provide enough evidence that makes what you claim more probable than not by a preponderance of the evidence.  If there is proof Josh went to the strip club, proof he withdrew a large chunk of money, proof he texted Danica, etc etc, than that makes the claim that they had paid-for sex more likely than not.  

 

Personally I think that when Josh got that fancy job in DC and had extra money that he definitely spent some of it on strippers and whores.  After all, he deserved it.  

[JoanArc]

Even better if Jim Boob comes back with "Wanna' bet?"

"I'mmma about touch you inappropriately with my fist, old man!"

[cereality]

Of course divorce isn't an option as far as anyone is concerned, but if Anna does come to her senses and says -- enough -- and walks away, the sad thing (one of many sad things) is that she will be thought of as a total outcast who was not Christian enough to do her wifely duty of putting up with Josh's $hit. I bet no one from the family would be allowed to interact with her. That's sad bc as bad as everything is, in watching the specials -- when she was just with Jana, Joy Anna, Jinger, etc. cooking or just hanging out, there were moments where she did seem happy. Of course as soon as Josh's name came up or the memories from being in Jessa's house came up -- she got teary. But in other moments, it looked like she was enjoying the bond/sisterhood that they share and let's be honest, while I'm sure they're not allowed to say it to her -- it's probably comforting to her to be around people who think Josh is a douchebag and it's HIS fault, not hers -- which I think the sisters do believe even though it goes against their parents' wishes for how they interpret this.

 

If she were to ever walk away and this was a "normal" family, it would make sense that she could live someplace nearby so Josh could see his kids once in a while, and the other Duggar daughters could come and go and just hang out with her -- after all, they are the kids' aunts. Though all of this is probably far too rational for the Duggars anyway.

[Missy Vixen]

"I'mmma about touch you inappropriately with my fist, old man!"

Imagine the show that would be possible if TLC finally dropped the gloves and showed the Duggars' family dysfunction. And we know there's probably a lot of it, don't we?

[BradandJanet]

Anna is going to stay until she cracks up and ends up babbling in a corner. No one simply walks away from a cult like this and just starts up a new life. The group cannot tolerate the embarrassment and disruption to the hierarchy. Members will stalk, harass, and threaten her until she is defeated and returns. Guilt and fear are powerful motivators and extremely difficult to push away. As has often been mentioned here, Anna is in an especially difficult position: she has four young children, no job skills, no solid outside support system, and no vision of a better future. I'm she's thought about walking but quickly pushes those thoughts out of her head.

[cereality]

I don't even know if Anna has realistically thought about walking. Maybe she thinks of it like a fantasy once in a while, the way normal people fanaticize about quitting the job, selling all their stuff and going to live in the Caribbean or something and then snap back to the reality that the mortgage needs to be paid and the kids' college won't fund itself. I bet if Anna ever thinks about it, she likely “laughs it off” in the back of her mind, and not realizing that in 2016 – women totally can leave and be on their own.  Thing is – she went from her father’s trailer to Josh’s house and has NO idea how to take care of herself.  Everything from finding a job to figuring out how to pay for daycare for 4 kids, to rent an apartment, and how to get WIC if she just can’t make ends meet are all beyond here because she has no exposure to the real world.  If this kind of thing happened to someone like a Bates daughter, they wouldn’t be AS lost bc they held (minor) jobs before marriage, had friends etc. so they aren’t as unexposed and isolated.  Anna does have a sister who is a single mom, but in her current situation where she’s being kept in prison (i.e. the girls’ room) – she’s being isolated from anyone who could help her or put ideas in her head.  And I don’t see her being saavy enough to grab her cell phone and wander out to Ben’s old warehouse or say she’s going to Jessa’s but just not go so she can park her car on the side of the road and talk to her sister (or even someone like Amy who lives in the real world) for a half hour.

[BitterApple]

Even though Suze was accepted back into the fold, IIRC she was initially shunned by her family for getting pregnant out of wedlock. It seems as though Ma and Pa Keller have no problem throwing their kids to the wolves if they stray from the Gothard rulebook. I can't see Anna getting a lot of support if she chose to walk away from Josh. With four kids under six, there's no way in hell she'd be able to afford full-time daycare and she has no work experience. The girls' dorm is probably her safest option, no matter how much it sucks.

[Micks Picks]

She's not that pitiful.  She's been exposed to plenty of other people.  There are the prisoners to start with, the TLC people, those she met in DC, on and on.  She and the others could do more if they wanted to.  

[Marigny]

She asks a good question. She can also go to her nearest convenience store, buy a bag of dicks, and eat them for basically letting the Duggars off the hook in her interview. Not a single pressing question, and few to no follow ups. Their story was transparent BS. Shame on her for being a PR person instead of a journalist.

 

It is my mission to use this line at least once in this upcoming week. 

 

How did I not know that Joshie got sued in my hometown federal court?? JB must be beside himself, though it looks like he's retained a Pennsylvania lawyer for Joshie boy, rather than calling in a favor with an Arkansas law firm. Though maybe he doesn't want the Duggar name dragged through the mud any more in Arkansas that it already has been. (Not that any deposition given by Josh won't make the Arkansas news.)

 

I'm a litigator too (though not this type of litigation), and just looking at the papers: (i) I'm glad Josh's motion to dismiss was denied so now all the cell phone records, EZ pass records or credit charge charges showing his whereabouts etc. will HAVE TO come out and likely he'll be deposed as well; and (ii) Josh and Daddy Duggar better be 100% certain that when he said that he had NEVER interacted with the woman, spoken to her, gone to a hotel with her, and wasn't even in PA those 2 times -- they better be certain that he is 100% NOT LYING about this. Answers are verified under the penalty of perjury; if he and daddy cooked up a scheme to say these things while in their heart saying "well he didn't PURPOSE TO interact with her or go to a hotel with her" -- in the same way that they have spun being unfaithful to Anna = looking at porn -- if he stretched the truth on these answers and it comes out, he's going to be looking at an obstruction of justice charge in federal court, which won't be pretty.

 

Fingers crossed! I honestly think he and LAWYR are arrogant enough to think there isn't enough proof. The longer someone lives a double life, the more arrogant they get/guard comes down, the sloppier they get. The fact that Josh was so easily found on AM speaks volumes. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh was operating at his sloppiest when these incidences occured. 

[JoanArc]

 

It is my mission to use this line at least once in this upcoming week.

My first disciple. Bless you.

[cereality]

She's not that pitiful.  She's been exposed to plenty of other people.  There are the prisoners to start with, the TLC people, those she met in DC, on and on.  She and the others could do more if they wanted to.  

 

Yes but exposed to and friends with are two different things. Yes -- she hasn't been locked in a room for the last 27 yrs, so she has seen people before. Yet -- these fundie families have such a herd or "us vs. them" mentality that I question how much she's interacted with or befriended anyone she's met. Do you really think she got to be acquaintances or friends with any of the prisoners her dad ministered to? Or do you think she went along once a month, stood sweetly next to her dad, and then came home and said -- we are SO blessed not to have the kinds of problems as those women??

 

Same with DC. That was her best opportunity to make friends since she didn't have a built in family network there, and yet I kind of doubt that it happened. Sure they shot a few dinners and music classes to show how Anna was out there in the world -- yet it looked made for TV to me bc when she was shown talking to those women, she was asking very basic questions you ask a perfect stranger. I hope she really did make a mom friend or 2 in the neighborhood who she had coffee with a few times and chatted with on the playground when she took Mac and Michael. Bc in this kind of situation many women in the DC area --which is pretty liberal and not particularly religious -- would be ok having someone like Anna who they've had coffee with 5 times reach out and say -- look I think you've seen on TV what's going on with my life, I really want out but I have no clue where to start, is there any chance you could make a plan/checklist for me bc I don't even know what to do?? I can see most women saying yes and spending their time helping someone. And yet you can only make that ask IF those women at least know you a little -- you can't be that mom who they've seen at playgroup once and never spoke to.

She's not that pitiful.  She's been exposed to plenty of other people.  There are the prisoners to start with, the TLC people, those she met in DC, on and on.  She and the others could do more if they wanted to.  

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by cereality

[cereality]

It is my mission to use this line at least once in this upcoming week. 

 

 

Fingers crossed! I honestly think he and LAWYR are arrogant enough to think there isn't enough proof. The longer someone lives a double life, the more arrogant they get/guard comes down, the sloppier they get. The fact that Josh was so easily found on AM speaks volumes. It wouldn't surprise me if Josh was operating at his sloppiest when these incidences occured. 

Do we know anything about this lawyer or are you assuming arrogance bc -- well -- he's working with the Duggars? I wonder if this is a solid lawyer in the area (while I'm from Philly, I've never practiced there) or if it's like the lawyer who is representing that Real Housewife of NJ -- he just wants the media attention and seems to do whatever the couple asks. But in any event, if Joshy and/or the lawyer get too cute -- they will risk an obstruction charge as federal courts take things like lying very seriously, even if you think you're purposing to tell the story Gothard wants you to tell. 

 

I have no doubt that Josh was sloppy in covering his tracks -- lots of reasons for that. First, this isn't the brightest light in the harbor, nor is he experienced in any way. He wanted a side piece, he got on the internet and google searched and voila. He likely wasn't smart enough to realize -- fake names, fake email addresses, don't use traceable credit cards, think about whether your ISPs or servers can be traced back to you etc. Every DC politician who is having an affair is aware of these issues, yet I'd be surprised if he thought about most of these for more than 2 seconds. Plus he's arrogant as he knew daddy was far far away, for once he didn't need daddy's money bc he was bringing in 150-200k on his own and was going to spend it how he damn well pleased, and the only person in DC who knew him was a lowly WOMAN -- Anna. He thinks he's brilliant and above all women including his own wife, so he likely thought his wife wouldn't even think to question bank statements or credit card accounts and say -- honey, what's this Ashley Madison recurring charge every month? Frankly Anna likely didn't even have access to the accounts as that isn't women's work AND even if she did, I bet on this issue he acted like the headship and shut it down if he could see that she was about to question HIM, the sole bread earner that she should feel lucky to have providing for her -- lest she had to get a job herself like all the poor single women out there (which I believe Anna said herself while in DC -- how she feels "bad" for single women and/or lucky for herself that she has a man to provide).

[Micks Picks]

The women in the Duggar gaggle, and we are primarily talking about Anna in this thread, don't need a ton of gal pals to plot an escape like the underground railroad.  They really don't.  They need to got over themselves and get on with life like the rest of do.  Have I left and moved a thousand miles away for a job without knowing anybody there at all?  Yes I did.  Happy to do it and happy to get to see new faces and places.  These women need to expand a little more and it would not be difficult.  Everybody has something to get over.  So time for them to get to getting over it and on with it.

[Churchhoney]

Have I left and moved a thousand miles away for a job without knowing anybody there at all?  Yes I did.  Happy to do it and happy to get to see new faces and places.  These women need to expand a little more and it would not be difficult.  Everybody has something to get over.  So time for them to get to getting over it and on with it.

 

Everybody's different, though, both in experience and in temperament. I'm much more like the Duggars, definitely in upbringing, less so in temperament but still clearly more like them in temperament than many others, and it was terribly terribly difficult for me to do this. And I did it only because I was convinced that the result, otherwise, would be suicide if I didn't get out, and that I might have turned the violence against others, too. (not exaggerating here) Even having done it, I was a frightening psychological mess for years after I left. And I'd had tons more exposure to the world than the Duggars and Anna have.

 

Certainly some people can just buck up and move on when they've had zero experience with making friends, have lived under constant surveillance and in social isolation and had their egos assaulted daily for life, but for others it's really really difficult. If I'd had young children at the time, as Anna has, I think I probably would have stayed because the prospect would have been even more daunting because the burdens and responsibilities would have been so much greater. If you leave alone, as I did, you really don't have any responsibilities. That's freeing. I very much wish Anna would go, and I do think that having a sibling who seems willing to help her makes a difference that, if she were smart, she'd appreciate and use as her crutch for leaving. But I really really understand why she doesn't.

 

Social isolation and not being given any chances to learn that you're competent to navigate the world on your own can take a really big toll on some people. I envy those who have the guts to just feel the fear and do it anyway. But when I look at my own family's inability to break free for the most part and at what it took for me to do it, I just can't go along with thinking that it's possible for anyone. Maybe it's not.

[lookeyloo]

Everybody's different, though, both in experience and in temperament. I'm much more like the Duggars, definitely in upbringing, less so in temperament but still clearly more like them in temperament than many others, and it was terribly terribly difficult for me to do this. And I did it only because I was convinced that the result, otherwise, would be suicide if I didn't get out, and that I might have turned the violence against others, too. (not exaggerating here) Even having done it, I was a frightening psychological mess for years after I left. And I'd had tons more exposure to the world than the Duggars and Anna have.

 

Certainly some people can just buck up and move on when they've had zero experience with making friends, have lived under constant surveillance and in social isolation and had their egos assaulted daily for life, but for others it's really really difficult. If I'd had young children at the time, as Anna has, I think I probably would have stayed because the prospect would have been even more daunting because the burdens and responsibilities would have been so much greater. If you leave alone, as I did, you really don't have any responsibilities. That's freeing. I very much wish Anna would go, and I do think that having a sibling who seems willing to help her makes a difference that, if she were smart, she'd appreciate and use as her crutch for leaving. But I really really understand why she doesn't.

 

Social isolation and not being given any chances to learn that you're competent to navigate the world on your own can take a really big toll on some people. I envy those who have the guts to just feel the fear and do it anyway. But when I look at my own family's inability to break free for the most part and at what it took for me to do it, I just can't go along with thinking that it's possible for anyone. Maybe it's not.

Churchhoney I agree with your post.  For many it isn't as simple as "buck up, girl, move on".  Which is why so many non fundies also stay in awful situations.  And some of us get the situation thrust upon us and even with exposure to the real world and some resources, it is incredibly difficult to navigate a new culture, because that is what it is.  And some never recover fully and some thrive.  I'm thinking one must need a certain amount of resilience and "spunk" to get through it all.  And some people just don't have the strength to tackle it.  

[AZChristian]

Wow.  Just wow.  Conjugal visit ==> horny husband ==> not very bright wife ===> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/anna-duggar-josh-duggar-pregnant-reportedly-expecting-fifth-child/

Edited January 17, 2016 by AZChristian

[Fuzzysox]

Wow.  Just wow.  Conjugal visit ==> horny husband ==> not very bright wife ===> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/anna-duggar-josh-duggar-pregnant-reportedly-expecting-fifth-child/

Yep, a new baby bump is a MUST for the Redemption Tour wouldn't be believable if no bump was present.

I truly don't believe she is pregnant though. No one can be that unlucky.

[queenanne]

Churchhoney I agree with your post.  For many it isn't as simple as "buck up, girl, move on".  Which is why so many non fundies also stay in awful situations.  And some of us get the situation thrust upon us and even with exposure to the real world and some resources, it is incredibly difficult to navigate a new culture, because that is what it is.  And some never recover fully and some thrive.  I'm thinking one must need a certain amount of resilience and "spunk" to get through it all.  And some people just don't have the strength to tackle it.  

 

I also feel like it's a bit of a sweeping assumption that any of the Duggars want to be "rescued", or anything like.

 

People seem to be assuming largely based on the evidence of Josh's actions, Jinger's idle speculation about cities, and what they themselves would do or want.

 

Maybe it sounds like a nice life to the women, always having someone around glued to their hip (husband or baby), and never having to go to work.  

 

Look at Jill, who wishes Derick would never have to go to work for example, and got her wish.

 

Plus, we don't know how many battles any of them might fight daily with the parents in secret on smaller matters.

 

It sounds really nice to say "Now that you've done X, you will and must also have the strength to do Y, because you've got this experience behind you and in your past!"  

 

If it were true, people who had escaped these home situations would never have any problems or bad habits.  They'd be career successes, never get or be fat, or even chew their nails.  "If you did this, you can do anything!"... *crickets*

 

Some people only have the stomach for one big battle in their life.

Edited January 17, 2016 by queenanne

[Marigold]

I don't even know if Anna has realistically thought about walking. .

I don't know if Anna knows the extent of Josh's behavior.

I'm sure that Jim Bob has kept all that away from her as much as possible. She is the golden ticket for the Redemption Tour. Without Anna, Josh is just another sleazy dirtbag who likes fast food and has a vile history.

We all get to read all the dirt, court documents, interviews etc.

I bet Anna knows very little. And what she has googled in private while sitting on the toilet, is easily dismissed as a conspiracy theory against Christians and the Duggars.

[kokapetl]

Newly found old pic from pickles

Suuuch an asshole.

[RazzleberryPie]

Anna doesn't give any indication of wanting to leave. She has said she wants to fix her family. I absolutely think josh would walk away in a heartbeat if he could have a 'do-over'.

Anna is t the first and won't be the last woman who just can't accept that her husband is an ass, and that getting pregnant asap won't fix everything.

Josh isn't the first man who resents his life, lies through his teeth, treads on people who love and respect him, with no remorse from him. He's miserable, but too weak and too prideful to admit he is h happy and destroy his own image. He's too selfish to admit he would rather be doing anything but Family Man activities, but will live a double life until forced into the open.

I wish Anna realized that she has options. The options will be very emotionally and financially difficult, and not the life she planned, but she things will never go back to the fairy tale she wants and will only get worse is she stays. Change is hard. Realizing a person you loved betrayed you is harder. Accepting that it isn't your fault and you are not trapped in misery is amazing.

[Micks Picks]

I don't have good things to say about Anna if she is PG and pleased.  Sure it may be hard not being somebody else's whipping girl, not letting everybody walk all over you, having the people you love the most say and do things that hurt you….no wait, I've been in similar circumstances.  I got tired of being a doormat.  It was killing me inside.  I still have to deal with a few of these people and can expect zero support from them.  They have demonstrated that.  Often off the cuff when you are least expecting it.  They won't say anything nice no matter what, but only get downright vicious sporadically.  And they still want control.  How nice it must be to have people love and accept you.  Relatives I mean.  But you don't have what you don't have.  To continue to seek it, would further destroy me.  And it is destroying the Duggar women.

[floridamom]

Anna stated that she wants her marriage "to be restored"....restored to WHAT? It's sad that she doesn't realize that she never had the marriage she thought she had. She lived a fantasy-minded life; maybe she suspected something, maybe she didn't. The fact remains that her husband "Joshua" never really wanted to be tied down with a wife and babies asap at this time in his life. His parents really and truly screwed him with their stringent rules, etc. I'm not saying that what he did with his sisters and the other female was excusable, but it's telling to me that he never received the proper treatment that he needed. He also, IMO, must have felt completely uncomfortable to really EVER TALK to his parents about him not wanting such an extreme religious lifestyle for himself. There is no sin in that. There are plenty of good, more moderate religious people out there, but not to this family. They simply DO NOT accept any of their children for the individuals that they are. It's a cookie cutter family life for them...one size fits all.It's quite telling to me also, that Josh felt more comfortable sneaking around with this stuff than coming clean to his parents in the first place.

Anna, on the other hand, barely 20 years old, was more like an 11 year old that was asked to the 6th grade dance when Josh asked to court her. She was seemingly a really sheltered young girl, lived her life with blinders on and there was only ONE STREET in her world...and it led to the Gothard compound. She blindly and innocently trusted all the "grown ups" around her, her parents and the Duggars that this was the right thing for her to do; compound that with her raging hormones and that god-awful "hand sex" with Josh; she was panting 90% of the time they were filmed together preparing for their wedding. It's a terrible thing to do to a young woman in any belief system like that. In these years, I do believe that Anna has grown SOME, not not matured much in the process. She was almost a mother immediately, stayed home a lot, had more children and socialized mostly with the unmarried Duggar sisters at that time. Not much opportunity for grown and maturity there, either. Anna has grown older, but not "up". What she needs, is a really good friend and a good "mother role model" to advise her about how to proceed in the future; Whether she stays in her marriage or not with Joshy, is her decision, but wise advice from an experienced grown up WOMAN would be invaluable to her as to HOW TO PROCEED WITH HIM; finances, bedroom and all. She should be running the show and should know, manage and handle everything. Josh has earned his demotion. This, fellow posters, please understand is just my opinion. I welcome yours and always enjoy reading what you all have to say here. Many of your idea,, suggestions and observations are wise. Thanks for reading mine.

[kokapetl]

Aside from her initial statement when Josh scandal #1 hit the fan, and her interviews in the Counting On specials, Anna hasn't made any other statements.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Kokapetl

[Temperance]

Wow.  Just wow.  Conjugal visit ==> horny husband ==> not very bright wife ===> http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/anna-duggar-josh-duggar-pregnant-reportedly-expecting-fifth-child/

The tabloids have been saying so for weeks, but then they think everyone is pregnant. Anna, after four kids, probably looks a little pregnant all the time (not judging her, just saying). 

I thought Anna was younger than Josh. They were born the same year, but he's born in March and she's born in June so she IS younger and they are both 27 until March. That's what I thought and Wikipedia confirmed it. That the writers of said article aren't bright enough to do 15 secs worth of research (to figure out her real age) should say something about the authenticity of the article.  

Time will tell, but I doubt she's pregnant.

Edited January 17, 2016 by Temperance

[kokapetl]

It's always wise to be cautious.

"According to Monday's report, the SURI-II is one of 73 celebrity-surveying satellites currently deployed by the U.S. and assigned a variety of tasks including analyzing the rising levels of hostility between new mother Britney Spears and husband Kevin Federline, calculating the long-term effects of Julia Roberts' decision to bottle-feed her twins, and tracking the ever-changing whereabouts of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt.

"In the 15 years since the first crude orbital crafts were launched to monitor Demi Moore's second pregnancy, fame-monitoring satellites have proven invaluable in our pursuit to better understand the star-studded world around us,"

"Outfitted with sensitive spectrometers that measure pregnant Academy Award–winners' mean glow-radiance (MGR) and equipped with advanced imaging and optoelectronic devices capable of detecting possible "baby bumps" from 13,000 miles above the earth's surface, satellites like the InTouch IV have allowed researchers to literally observe a distant star's baby being born."

"Yet not all satellite-based celebrity-fact-gathering technology has been foolproof. In early 2004, the launch of a satellite intended to provide precise measurements of Kate Hudson's expelled placenta proved disastrous when its equipment inexplicably began tracking Andy Dick's erratic workout routine instead. A more recent satellite malfunction in January likewise produced erroneous data that pop superstar Madonna was pregnant with 238.4 children."

Edited January 17, 2016 by Kokapetl

[Joe Jitsu913]

Anna stated that she wants her marriage "to be restored"....restored to WHAT? It's sad that she doesn't realize that she never had the marriage she thought she had. She lived a fantasy-minded life; maybe she suspected something, maybe she didn't. The fact remains that her husband "Joshua" never really wanted to be tied down with a wife and babies asap at this time in his life. His parents really and truly screwed him with their stringent rules, etc. I'm not saying that what he did with his sisters and the other female was excusable, but it's telling to me that he never received the proper treatment that he needed. He also, IMO, must have felt completely uncomfortable to really EVER TALK to his parents about him not wanting such an extreme religious lifestyle for himself. There is no sin in that. There are plenty of good, more moderate religious people out there, but not to this family. They simply DO NOT accept any of their children for the individuals that they are. It's a cookie cutter family life for them...one size fits all.It's quite telling to me also, that Josh felt more comfortable sneaking around with this stuff than coming clean to his parents in the first place.

Anna, on the other hand, barely 20 years old, was more like an 11 year old that was asked to the 6th grade dance when Josh asked to court her. She was seemingly a really sheltered young girl, lived her life with blinders on and there was only ONE STREET in her world...and it led to the Gothard compound. She blindly and innocently trusted all the "grown ups" around her, her parents and the Duggars that this was the right thing for her to do; compound that with her raging hormones and that god-awful "hand sex" with Josh; she was panting 90% of the time they were filmed together preparing for their wedding. It's a terrible thing to do to a young woman in any belief system like that. In these years, I do believe that Anna has grown SOME, not not matured much in the process. She was almost a mother immediately, stayed home a lot, had more children and socialized mostly with the unmarried Duggar sisters at that time. Not much opportunity for grown and maturity there, either. Anna has grown older, but not "up". What she needs, is a really good friend and a good "mother role model" to advise her about how to proceed in the future; Whether she stays in her marriage or not with Joshy, is her decision, but wise advice from an experienced grown up WOMAN would be invaluable to her as to HOW TO PROCEED WITH HIM; finances, bedroom and all. She should be running the show and should know, manage and handle everything. Josh has earned his demotion. This, fellow posters, please understand is just my opinion. I welcome yours and always enjoy reading what you all have to say here. Many of your idea,, suggestions and observations are wise. Thanks for reading mine.

I hope this plants a seed in the mind of Duggar girls. That depending on your husband as a sole means of financial and emotional support with no education is nothing short of a disaster. I hope they look at Anna and it sparks something in their brainwashed minds to be independent and get an education.

I know, I know...I can dream.

[RazzleberryPie]

Anna stated that she wants her marriage "to be restored"....restored to WHAT? It's sad that she doesn't realize that she never had the marriage she thought she had. She lived a fantasy-minded life; maybe she suspected something, maybe she didn't. The fact remains that her husband "Joshua" never really wanted to be tied down with a wife and babies asap at this time in his life. His parents really and truly screwed him with their stringent rules, etc. I'm not saying that what he did with his sisters and the other female was excusable, but it's telling to me that he never received the proper treatment that he needed. He also, IMO, must have felt completely uncomfortable to really EVER TALK to his parents about him not wanting such an extreme religious lifestyle for himself. There is no sin in that. There are plenty of good, more moderate religious people out there, but not to this family. They simply DO NOT accept any of their children for the individuals that they are. It's a cookie cutter family life for them...one size fits all.It's quite telling to me also, that Josh felt more comfortable sneaking around with this stuff than coming clean to his parents in the first place.

Anna, on the other hand, barely 20 years old, was more like an 11 year old that was asked to the 6th grade dance when Josh asked to court her. She was seemingly a really sheltered young girl, lived her life with blinders on and there was only ONE STREET in her world...and it led to the Gothard compound. She blindly and innocently trusted all the "grown ups" around her, her parents and the Duggars that this was the right thing for her to do; compound that with her raging hormones and that god-awful "hand sex" with Josh; she was panting 90% of the time they were filmed together preparing for their wedding. It's a terrible thing to do to a young woman in any belief system like that. In these years, I do believe that Anna has grown SOME, not not matured much in the process. She was almost a mother immediately, stayed home a lot, had more children and socialized mostly with the unmarried Duggar sisters at that time. Not much opportunity for grown and maturity there, either. Anna has grown older, but not "up". What she needs, is a really good friend and a good "mother role model" to advise her about how to proceed in the future; Whether she stays in her marriage or not with Joshy, is her decision, but wise advice from an experienced grown up WOMAN would be invaluable to her as to HOW TO PROCEED WITH HIM; finances, bedroom and all. She should be running the show and should know, manage and handle everything. Josh has earned his demotion. This, fellow posters, please understand is just my opinion. I welcome yours and always enjoy reading what you all have to say here. Many of your idea,, suggestions and observations are wise. Thanks for reading mine.

 

I agree with 95% of what you said. The one thing I see differently, is that when Josh and Anna were courting and first married, I think he absolutely did want to be tied down with a wife and babies. Maybe tied down isn't the word, and maybe, like a whole lot of men who marry very young and who are from conservative backgrounds, he was thinking marriage is 24/7 sex and nothing else matters. Even despite wise counsel and whatever, he's thinking 'yeah, yeah, get me through this so we can do it". 

 

I think he even wanted the first baby, maybe even first two, but the reality and the responsibility hit really quickly, and he became overwhelmed and just over it. Now why he couldn't tell Anna to slow her roll with the perpetual pregnancies, I don't know. Other Gothardy people have spaced their kids out more, but Anna was scarily obsessed with being pregnant and having an infant, even when she'd just given birth.

 

As for the porn and hookers, getting busted was what he deserved. He spouts very hateful, judgmental words - and got paid very well to do so - about people who don't have proper, wholesome, family values, while he was living a complete lie. I won't even factor in the molestations, or anything sketchy before his marriage to Anna. But AFTER he said vows to promise to cherish, honor, protect, etc., her, he lied. He cheated. He committed adultery. He put her health at risk.

 

I think he DID want the perks of the religion - being the Duggar Prince and believing he's a Special Holy Snowflake, but he wanted to have his cake and eat it, too. As long as he doesn't get caught, no biggie, right?

 

Now as for Anna, I feel sorry for her. She followed all the rules, sincerely believed God was blessing her with this wonderful godly leader, etc., then learned, four kids deep, that it was all a complete lie. Anna was tricked. She was not given full disclosure as to Josh's character. Now she did run as fast as she could to the altar and opened the baby factory as fast and furious as she could. I think she deep down knows the hard truth that her life is not what she signed up for and won't get back on track (like millions of people realize all the time), but she still retains some sort of hope that it will. I just hope she doesn't bring another child into this world with Josh before she figures it all out, whether she decides she does want to stay with him or move on.

[SometimesBites]

The women in the Duggar gaggle, and we are primarily talking about Anna in this thread, don't need a ton of gal pals to plot an escape like the underground railroad.  They really don't.  They need to got over themselves and get on with life like the rest of do.  Have I left and moved a thousand miles away for a job without knowing anybody there at all?  Yes I did.  Happy to do it and happy to get to see new faces and places.  These women need to expand a little more and it would not be difficult.  Everybody has something to get over.  So time for them to get to getting over it and on with it.

I did, too--well, it was 800 miles, and my father plus a couple of childhood friends lived there. I had no job, no car, and no cash. I had a couple of credit cards to survive on until I could find work. I had been out of the job market for many years and my most marketable skill was reasonable intelligence and a simmering desperation.

BUT. It took me many, many years in a very bad marriage to finally take that leap, because I was a fundie. There are not words adequate to truly explain how deeply hampering that psychology is. In my experience, those teachings are so limiting, so psychologically impairing, that they create a barrier to change and personal agency that is as close to being physically restrained as one can be without an actual physical cage.

I didn't manage to get free until I was 38, and I wasn't even raised in that mess. The beliefs were strong though. I mean, you actually thinkthat breaking away is displeasing to Almighty God! Yeah...that can be just a tad intimidating.

Anna was freaking raised in that toxic mindset from INFANCY. We can look in from our personal vantage points and decide there are no victims, only volunteers, but I don't have it in to say that Anna just needs to buck up and change. She DOES... but the fact that she's not doing it now doesn't mean she's just lazy or content to suck off the Duggar tit.

[Sew Sumi]

Cross-posting from the Duggar Culture thread. Anna shows up at the anti-abortion rally today. Unfortunately, she's wearing a bulky coat, plus Jenni is blocking her abdomen, so we can't speculate as to whether she's really knocked up. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqGl8uxhAn/?taken-by=joe_donaldson_1

[Micks Picks]

There are no words to express my disgust at the continuing anti-abortion activism.  Supreme Court of U.S. says it's ok, it's ok.  And they have their own exceptions, as except when Michelle could die.  Sure the baby lived in that case but a couple of weeks earlier and it wouldn't.  So stick it you people.  

[Sew Sumi]

Not to mention NONE of them "survived" Roe v. Wade unless there were a bunch of attempted abortions that we never heard about. *eyeroll*

[Barbie]

Not to mention NONE of them "survived" Roe v. Wade unless there were a bunch of attempted abortions that we never heard about. *eyeroll*

I need a hundred thumbs up to give this post.... 

[ms.o]

Is that Anna next to Sierra? God she looks thin

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqMfzwRhMT/?taken-by=joe_donaldson_1

[Fuzzysox]

Anna stated that she wants her marriage "to be restored"....restored to WHAT? It's sad that she doesn't realize that she never had the marriage she thought she had. She lived a fantasy-minded life; maybe she suspected something, maybe she didn't. The fact remains that her husband "Joshua" never really wanted to be tied down with a wife and babies asap at this time in his life. His parents really and truly screwed him with their stringent rules, etc. I'm not saying that what he did with his sisters and the other female was excusable, but it's telling to me that he never received the proper treatment that he needed. He also, IMO, must have felt completely uncomfortable to really EVER TALK to his parents about him not wanting such an extreme religious lifestyle for himself. There is no sin in that. There are plenty of good, more moderate religious people out there, but not to this family. They simply DO NOT accept any of their children for the individuals that they are. It's a cookie cutter family life for them...one size fits all.It's quite telling to me also, that Josh felt more comfortable sneaking around with this stuff than coming clean to his parents in the first place.

Anna, on the other hand, barely 20 years old, was more like an 11 year old that was asked to the 6th grade dance when Josh asked to court her. She was seemingly a really sheltered young girl, lived her life with blinders on and there was only ONE STREET in her world...and it led to the Gothard compound. She blindly and innocently trusted all the "grown ups" around her, her parents and the Duggars that this was the right thing for her to do; compound that with her raging hormones and that god-awful "hand sex" with Josh; she was panting 90% of the time they were filmed together preparing for their wedding. It's a terrible thing to do to a young woman in any belief system like that. In these years, I do believe that Anna has grown SOME, not not matured much in the process. She was almost a mother immediately, stayed home a lot, had more children and socialized mostly with the unmarried Duggar sisters at that time. Not much opportunity for grown and maturity there, either. Anna has grown older, but not "up". What she needs, is a really good friend and a good "mother role model" to advise her about how to proceed in the future; Whether she stays in her marriage or not with Joshy, is her decision, but wise advice from an experienced grown up WOMAN would be invaluable to her as to HOW TO PROCEED WITH HIM; finances, bedroom and all. She should be running the show and should know, manage and handle everything. Josh has earned his demotion. This, fellow posters, please understand is just my opinion. I welcome yours and always enjoy reading what you all have to say here. Many of your idea,, suggestions and observations are wise. Thanks for reading mine.

Josh and Bin will keep getting older and more resentful towards their parents for forcing them to get married way to young. They will both end up in  a bar in some hick town drinking away their sorrows complaining about how they got screwed over someday.

[Muffyn]

Newly found old pic from pickles

Suuuch an asshole.

Must control fist of death. . . . 

[LilyoftheValley]

Is that Anna next to Sierra? God she looks thin

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqMfzwRhMT/?taken-by=joe_donaldson_1

All that photo does is make the case FOR abortion.  Look at all those disgusting, sexist, child-abusing, self-righteous, uneducated, jobless leeches.  More abortions for fundies!  

[Sew Sumi]

I can't even imagine that without my gorge rising in my throat. 

[Lillybee]

Are Ma and Pa Duggar keeping track of Anna's cycles? It does look like they had JD fly her to Josh the second she was thought fertile.

[cmr2014]

That is a horrifying thought, but very possible.

 

I don't think that Anna is pregnant. She isn't as hyper-fertile as J'chelle, she is nursing a new baby, and she is under enormous stress which tends to reduce fertility.

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if she wanted to be pregnant. It's probably the only way she can envision "restoring" her marriage. I doubt she has any other tools in her toolbox or ideas in her head.

 

Her life -- such as it is -- really isn't that different from millions of other women all over the world, including many in the US. Until a generation or two ago, divorce was rare and shameful in the US, and people stayed in terrible relationships for life. And, from her perspective, I doubt she thinks her relationship is all bad. One sister is married to that truly unpleasant piece of work, David Waller, and another is living in squalor in Africa with her husband who does not appear to be entirely sane, and who certainly cares very little for her safety or comfort.

[Fuzzysox]

I know this article does NOT belong here but I'm going to leave it here because it outlines how women are treated, threatened and abused when a man is in "charge of them." I can see Anna being abused by Boob into staying. Sadly she has no one to look up to to help her out. Even Beall Phillips decided to stay with the scum that is her husband.

 

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/pastor-accused-of-using-nanny-as-sex-object-2/

[truthtalk2014]

Didn't see this one posted - but interesting to say the least.  Danica's sister has a different story to tell.

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-porn-star-lawsuit-danica-dillon-stalk-reality-star-rough-sex-sister-claims/

[LilyoftheValley]

I know this article does NOT belong here but I'm going to leave it here because it outlines how women are treated, threatened and abused when a man is in "charge of them." I can see Anna being abused by Boob into staying. Sadly she has no one to look up to to help her out. Even Beall Phillips decided to stay with the scum that is her husband.

 

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/pastor-accused-of-using-nanny-as-sex-object-2/

Woah, woah, woah, woooooaaaaah.  Hold on a minute here.  Am I getting this right?  Is this entire "religious movement" really just all about access to women's vaginas?  

[JoanArc]

Didn't see this one posted - but interesting to say the least.  Danica's sister has a different story to tell.

 

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/josh-duggar-porn-star-lawsuit-danica-dillon-stalk-reality-star-rough-sex-sister-claims/

Interesting, but I doubt she twitter stalked him, or knew his location.

[questionfear]

I wonder if Anna's relative fame/infamy is what also keeps her from leaving. If you think about it, she can't easily blend into the woodwork; if she leaves and applies for WIC, or tries to get a job, or does anything, the tabloids will be all over her. She could probably quietly leave once the family is out of the limelight, but that's sadly not anytime soon. And she doesn't have the resources to disappear for six months and start over somewhere new. 

[Chai]

Micks Picks I hope you can find relief from your back pain as quickly as possible. My problem with debilitating back pain came from disc degeneration and my back would "go out" and I would end up on the couch with a heating pad /tylenol/icy hot for weeks. Then I found a therapy called prolotherapy and I haven't been in pain since I tried it 5-6 years ago. I dont know if this can help you or not, but it worked miracles for me. Good luck! I know trying to live with back pain is miserable.

[Churchhoney]

Are Ma and Pa Duggar keeping track of Anna's cycles? It does look like they had JD fly her to Josh the second she was thought fertile.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just sayin.

Woah, woah, woah, woooooaaaaah.  Hold on a minute here.  Am I getting this right?  Is this entire "religious movement" really just all about access to women's vaginas?  

 

Well, not entirely. It's also about putting a whopping proportion of humanity -- all women and all of your offspring -- under the complete power of a bunch of insecure but nevertheless arrogant, power-mad men, for both sexual and other purposes.

 

Truly. That's all it's about.