Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[cmr2014]

So, yes, the Duggs and Kellers were riding high as Very Special Famous Superbreeder Parents of Holier-than-thine Loinfruit, at least in certain circles, and now an adult son[-in-law] has been exposed as a hypocrite, looking for adulterous sex online. Ya know, I'm fresh out of sh*ts to give about their battered parental pride. It's called life, and it's unpredictable, and those kids they spawned are people instead of programmable robots and will behave in ways their parents can't control. Which Ma and Pa Duggar and Keller will never figure out, because they will never pull their heads out of their own rear ends and deal with life on life's terms. And of course Joshgate II hits them all the harder because at least for JB Duggar and Pa Keller, and probably for their spouses, it's really All About Them, All The Time.

 

This is definitely what it is all about.

 

I don't believe for one minute that JB and J'chelle are concerned about Anna, or what she might be feeling. I don't think that they are concerned about Josh and the possibility that he might have some sort of emotional or mental health problem that should have been treated years ago. And I doubt that the "precious gandbabies" have crossed either of their minds for one instant since this whole thing blew up.

 

They are concerned about themselves: their TV show, their speaking engagments, their platform as righteous religious blowhards, their standing in their community. Whatever is wrong with Josh -- he came by it honestly. I don't think that there is anyone in this family who is capable of genuien empathy.

[Saint TV]

In short, they're worried about their BRAND. And well they should be. Their child-rearing choices mean that their adult kids have little real education and little to no chances at jobs that will allow them to support limitless numbers of children. They need their TV revenue, appearance fees, book royalties and the like.

That's going to be a problem - and all because of Josh - and the wife who apparently couldn't satisfy him.

Dear lord, this makes me angry.

[becca3891]

I’m a little confused.  Couldn’t  Pa Keller have kept his well paying  job & did his prison ministry in his free time?

 

You would think. Just like you would think David Rodrigues could print pamphlets in his spare time as opposed to calling it a full time ministry and going begging to support it. Speaking of Pa Keller, I remember David Waller putting on his blog that a condition of his being allowed to propose to Priscilla was him agreeing to be accountable to her with his internet use. I imagine Pa Keller made Josh give a similar promise, and I like to think that he's still furious even though he is also counseling Anna to stay.

 

 

Regarding the twitter we suspect is Josh, that guy uses the F word a lot.  

I somehow missed this. Does someone have a link?

 

This is probably a pretty obvious observation for most, but it just occurred to me. I always thought all the measures the Duggars had in place were a bit extreme, and that what has come out about them has happened despite those measures. But it just occurred to me that many of those were probably put into place more BECAUSE of Josh. The boys only being allowed to have flip phones, Nike, never being alone... I guess it makes it all make more sense.

Everyone in Gothard's world has those same standards, though.

[Chalby]

I've only seen a handful of 19 Kids and Counting episodes, but one I'll never forget was Anna carting her children around DC by herself, I think on some errands and to the park. She was as squeaky and high-pitched as ever with the "I'm really learning and enjoying this new challenge in my life!" stuff, but the look on her face and the footage of her trying to deal with everything was totally heartbreaking. 

I remember watching that episode with the same feeling you had. Poor Anna, you could see the slow realization dcross Anna's face as she surveyed her progress thus far. Not fun, not cute, not relaxing.

[becca3891]

  I would think that a decent and sympathetic husband would not demand it at a time like this, but we're talking about Josh Duggar here.  

 

The OP was talking about the Gothard teaching that you shouldn't have sex the night before church service, and what a wife like Anna is supposed to do when her husband asks for sex during a time when Gothard forbids it.

 

Any additional details?

Here's the link. Read it while you can -- Josh appears to have either forgotten about its existence or is stupid enough to think no one would link it with him. REALLY, REALLY NSFW! https://twitter.com/toughguyy11

 

I really wish people here would stop using Josh's fatness as though it's part and parcel of him being a bad person.  Fat people aren't bad people.  Bad people are bad people, and it's pretty clear that Josh is one.

When you mock someone's size, what you are really saying is "I hate fat people." 

I agree, and given the fact that two-thirds of Americans are overweight, it's hard to believe that no one here snarking about his weight is not in fact overweight him/herself. There is so much to complain about when it comes to Josh that I don't understand why his unremarkable extra pounds are getting so much attention!

Edited August 25, 2015 by frenchtoast
Needed NSFW warning

[mbutterfly]

OK, well I see things through a different lens I guess, Flowers and I'm getting called out for a difference of opinion, I'm sorry that it seems offensive to you -- right or wrong. Can we just agree to disagree? What's right is right" is subjective, IMO. And BTW, the only thing I have taken issue with is Daniel making public, otherwise we're on the same page.

I really don't see a good reason for any of these people to make a public statement about anything. Josh has apologized as much as he's going to. Nobody holds public nor any other office of trust. Nobody has a television show. They have a private family situation now. 

[NextIteration]

Here's the link. Read it while you can -- Josh appears to have either forgotten about its existence or is stupid enough to think no one would link it with him. REALLY, REALLY NSFW https://twitter.com/toughguyy11

 

It's the same catfished photo.  I had no idea that tweeting photos like that was allowed, good for drumming up "interest" I guess.

[Granny58]

But wouldn't that be "wasting seed?"

Also, Josh and Anna have a home separate from the TTH, right? So I hope Anna is there, NOT surrounded by others.

AFAIK, it is NOT unblbilical to have sex for enjoyment and relationship, only that one not stand in the way of a natural pregnancy happening.   

[poopchute]

Do people think that Twitter is Josh's because of the picture or is there some other evidence? I thought I read that when you google "random guy" that guys pic is one of the first results so I'm sure josh isn't the first loser to use it. That Twitter is pretty nasty, not that it couldn't be Josh but if it is, gross.

[JenCarroll]

This is from the old Testament.  Perhaps someone who is Jewish might be able to explain.  There are lots of restrictions including taking a special bath called a mikva( I probably spelled that wrong), but I think mostly orthodox and Hasidic women do this.

Sorry, I got nothing...

[Churchhoney]

OK, well I see things through a different lens I guess, Flowers and I'm getting called out for a difference of opinion, I'm sorry that it seems offensive to you -- right or wrong. Can we just agree to disagree? What's right is right" is subjective, IMO. And BTW, the only thing I have taken issue with is Daniel making public, otherwise we're on the same page.

 

Absolutely. There's no black and white to these things anyway. For me, the great thing about discussing these things with a lot of very bright people -- as happens here! -- is that we all bring different lenses from our own experiences and see different shades and aspects of what may be going on. Agreeing to disagree is the only way to go. (although hard sometimes, since most of us seem to have really strong feelings and opinions about all of this!)

Edited August 25, 2015 by Churchhoney

[cheatincheetos]

"Fargone" should be added to Webster's "great new words" list.

Josh dropped to his knees, then crumpled forward. But with a little luck he could still get most of the pastrami and sauerkraut back on the rye. Maybe lunch wasn't fargone after all.

This epic vignette made me laugh until my bladder was almost fargone.

[CherryMalotte]

The only really good thing to come out of the aftermath of this is if it inspired a couple of the younger Duggerlings to slip away out of the compound, never to return, and to have wonderful productive lives.

[Wellfleet]

I really wish people here would stop using Josh's fatness as though it's part and parcel of him being a bad person.  Fat people aren't bad people.  Bad people are bad people, and it's pretty clear that Josh is one.

When you mock someone's size, what you are really saying is "I hate fat people." 

 

Yes, very true. Obesity is one of the last prejudices still standing. i'm in no way saying we've conquered all the others obviously, but we have come a long way in many arenas. But most people don't give a second's thought about obesity. And fat kids are still chosen last for sports teams, too. 

Edited August 25, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Loves2Dance]

What the everloving fuck???

I'm fairly confident this part actually comes from the Bible itself. Though I'm not religious, I have read it and this was one of those parts where my nose went to the air. 

[Julia]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the only thing I find striking about Jim Bob and Josh being less-than-completely toned is that it's one more prejudice they deploy against other people while not thinking it applies to them. It's a little hard to accept that those two come from a family where already strikingly slim adolescent girls are in regimented diet programs for weight control.

And yes, for the record, they're both still less out of shape than I am.

[frenchtoast]

Please, please, please label heavily any NSFW link. With all the talk about people getting in trouble for using their work emails, it's likely that posters here may read (and click on links) from work. They have no idea if a link is problematic and it could very well lead to trouble for someone here clicking on a link. Better yet, don't post links to pictures that are essentially porn. A simple, "There's some really risque photos at xxx site. Just look for this." And let people find it on their own. 

Edited August 25, 2015 by frenchtoast
Added some clarification

[Julia]

Unless People's really got a huge audience for those Duggar cover stories, I can't believe that we'll see many more of them.

And if what I'm hearing is true, the pooch defrauded Jim Bob on that one. The Daily News is saying that the reason those articles had a rehash feel to them is that they offered the family a pay-for-play deal and Jim Bob insisted they would only talk about things which weren't the scandal. It looks like the only person who still has a gravy train stopping at People is Amy.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Julia

[Loves2Dance]

I respectfully disagree.  That is way too much work for a wife.  If a married man can't keep it in his pants without being watched 24/7- to hell with him.  For someone that wants to do something, they will find a way.  Remember, Josh is 'sly'.  YUCK. 

 

I would much rather kick his greasy scummy being to the curb and hit him with a ruler any time I saw him trying to come back in my house.  

We knew a man who was obsessed with showing himself on the internet that it cost him his career (military) and the wive had still yet to leave. The guy was dumb enough to take pictures and post then while he was in uniform with his nametape on; then as he was in the process of being kicked out, went to the post's library to do it again. There is a difference between addiction and just being a douchebag. Josh clearly has an addiction; nothing is going to stop him but psychiatric help---which he won't get because Jesus. 

 

Anna can think whatever she wants, but psychology will be more than happy to tell her how all of this is going to play out. 

[Oldernowiser]

That's hilarious. Every once in a while I think that I must be judging these people too harshly and surely no one is that delusional or narcissistic. Then I read something like that.

JimBob? What the hell else is there to talk about? Babies? Your oh-so-effective parenting rules? Your sex life? Cheap weddings?

He's a fool.

[Loves2Dance]

Any additional details?

The images, cursing, and all out adultness of this twitter account makes me not want to post it here. Google it; but do not open at work or around children please. It's beyond Not Safe For Work material.

 

NSFW NSFW NSFW NOT SAFE AROUND CHILDREN EITHER!

Here's an article about it: http://www.celebrityxo.com/celebrities-xo/josh-duggars-very-nsfw-twitter/

Edited August 25, 2015 by Loves2Dance

[3girlsforus]

AFAIK, it is NOT unblbilical to have sex for enjoyment and relationship, only that one not stand in the way of a natural pregnancy happening.   

 

It is not unbiblical to have sex for enjoyment/relationship. It is also not unbiblical to use birth control. The Bible simply said that children are a gift from God. It doesn't say you need to constantly try to get as many gifts as possible. It means to cherish the ones you are given.

[Fuzzysox]

If I were Anna I'd rapidly increase his intake of saturated fats and carbs and keep at it until he explodes one way or the other.

The next revision on the Duggar site will be:

 

Josh has had issues with Dolly Madison so now he has been advised to have a sit down with Jenny Craig to resolve them.

[kokapetl]

That Twitter account has a bit of a UK vibe coming from it, it might just be another (but British) lazy guy who did a search for "random guy" and found that guy's picture. I dunno why whoever it was just didn't use the default egg. It doesn't really match up with Josh "gentleness", "bubble baths" and particularly his "no swearing while cheating" desires. Plus the account is still up, Josh probably would've cancelled it by now, 2 or so days too late.

[kokapetl]

It is not unbiblical to have sex for enjoyment/relationship. It is also not unbiblical to use birth control. The Bible simply said that children are a gift from God. It doesn't say you need to constantly try to get as many gifts as possible. It means to cherish the ones you are given.

The sex does still need to be, if only at the end, p in v though right? The Smuggars unwisely took an oath at their wedding promising to God that they would "let God choose" the size of their family, I'd imagine sex that circumvents that is verboten.

[Cherrio]

The next revision on the Duggar site will be:

 

Josh has had issues with Dolly Madison so now he has been advised to have a sit down with Jenny Craig to resolve them.

Love this !!

[CherryAmes]

Josh has apologized as much as he's going to.

 

For that matter exactly why is he apologizing to anyone but his wife, and arguably his family?  He doesn't hold public office, he doesn't even work right now AFAIK.  Does he really owe the Great American Public anything anymore including apologies?  I am not saying this to excuse him in anyway at all but honestly the apology only makes it seem like he's way more important in the grand scheme of things than he actually is!

[Satchels of gold]

I can't be the only one waiting patiently for the steamy messages and penis pics, right?

[Quilt Fairy]

The only really good thing to come out of the aftermath of this is if it inspired a couple of the younger Duggerlings to slip away out of the compound, never to return, and to have wonderful productive lives.

You know it must be a Duggar thread when I read this as "to have wonderful reproductive lives"!

 

I thought the issue with Josh being overweight was his unhealthy food choices that he kept posting as well as the theory that he was using food as an outlet to sublimate (good word - I wonder if the Duggars know it) his other urges. (And, full disclosure, yes, pot calling the kettle black here.)

[3girlsforus]

The sex does still need to be, if only at the end, p in v though right? The Smuggars unwisely took an oath at their wedding promising to God that they would "let God choose" the size of their family, I'd imagine sex that circumvents that is verboten.

 

 

The Smuggars sexual and reproductive rules are based in Gothardism not the Bible so whatever rules they choose are those of their own making. They claim these to be Biblical requirements but they aren't. Just like I said about divorce in another post... they are circling Anna reminding her that the Bible requires that she stay married to Josh no matter what, when in reality the Bible specifically says sexual immorality is an acceptable reason for divorce. But Gothard is anti-woman, anti-divorce so in their minds that's what matters.  It's just another example that they are more about their Gothard philosophy and their image than what is truly Biblical.

[ZoloftBlob]

He doesn't hold public office, he doesn't even work right now AFAIK.  Does he really owe the Great American Public anything anymore including apologies?

 

He was a spokesperson for a conservative group. He's also a public figure due to his being on a tv show and he has used both of those positions to push an agenda of intolerance in the name of his religion. People who want to stand up on the soap box publically and say others are wrong per God need to remember the whole glass houses thing. Josh has presented himself as a defender of family values. He molested a five year old and cheated on his wife as he built his career. Yes, as much as he accepted the fawning praise of the Christian right publically, he does owe the people who believed his lies about his awesome family and how he was doing it all with God's guidance an apology.

[3girlsforus]

For that matter exactly why is he apologizing to anyone but his wife, and arguably his family?  He doesn't hold public office, he doesn't even work right now AFAIK.  Does he really owe the Great American Public anything anymore including apologies?  I am not saying this to excuse him in anyway at all but honestly the apology only makes it seem like he's way more important in the grand scheme of things than he actually is!

 

The Duggars all still view themselves as public figures. JB and Michelle see damage control as critical to repair their brand in whatever way possible. I'm sure they hope to be back on TV at some point but probably know that's not likely. But at the least they would still plan to do the lecture circuit for churches and conferences etc. Those people aren't going to be interested unless Josh does the grovel. 

[CherryAmes]

Yes, as much as he accepted the fawning praise of the Christian right publically, he does owe the people who believed his lies about his awesome family and how he was doing it all with God's guidance an apology.

 

If I thought for one minute that this was why he was making a public apology I would agree with you!  As it stands I think he's just going through the motions because he actually thinks he still has a chance at public office or some other kind of public preaching job.  I hope he's wrong!

[ZoloftBlob]

If I thought for one minute that this was why he was making a public apology I would agree with you!  As it stands I think he's just going through the motions because he actually thinks he still has a chance at public office or some other kind of public preaching job.  I hope he's wrong!

 

Understood, and I don't disagree but the question was "why should he make any public apologies?". That's why. He misled the public and presented himself as morally upright. How many people did he shame while he was diddling his sisters and cheating on his wife?

[kokapetl]

Even though I don't like the FRC, Josh honestly did owe them an apology.

[CofCinci]

That Twitter account has a bit of a UK vibe coming from it, it might just be another (but British) lazy guy who did a search for "random guy" and found that guy's picture. I dunno why whoever it was just didn't use the default egg. It doesn't really match up with Josh "gentleness", "bubble baths" and particularly his "no swearing while cheating" desires. Plus the account is still up, Josh probably would've cancelled it by now, 2 or so days too late.

It was created with same email account he used for Ashley Madison.

[kokapetl]

Understood, and I don't disagree but the question was "why should he make any public apologies?". That's why. He misled the public and presented himself as morally upright. How many people did he shame while he was diddling his sisters and cheating on his wife?

The sister incidents happened in 2002-2003. The very first 14 children special aired in 2004, and he didn't get the FRC job until 2013. His moral high horse lectures did coincide with his active Ashley Madison-ing.

[kokapetl]

It was created with same email account he used for Ashley Madison.

Are the email addresses of Twitter users publicly viewable? What I've read suggests they aren't.

[SongbirdHollow]

JMO over here but it seems clear that what Josh needs is a divorce and to be a single.  If, as a single man without any pressure from outside influences, he decides on his own accord that he wants to be a decent human being, then more power to him.  Maybe after that he and Anna can reconcile.  But it is just so obvious that the married quiverful lifestyle is not for him.  Why should his wife and family and even Josh (yeah I went there) suffer through years of beating a dead horse?  It makes no sense to me.

Sorry, that ship has sailed. He has a family and he needs to do right by them.

[NEGirl]

For that matter exactly why is he apologizing to anyone but his wife, and arguably his family?  He doesn't hold public office, he doesn't even work right now AFAIK.  Does he really owe the Great American Public anything anymore including apologies?  I am not saying this to excuse him in anyway at all but honestly the apology only makes it seem like he's way more important in the grand scheme of things than he actually is!

As Long as Josh worked for a known hate group and went around the country preaching family values and how godly and how much better he and his family were than the rest of us and it all turns out to be a lie - yes, he needed the issue an apology for being a lying hypocrite.

[Loves2Dance]

Sorry, that ship has sailed. He has a family and he needs to do right by them.

Doing right by them means what exactly? He can be the dad who pays child support and sees his kids and is present in their lives, while not making their mother miserable. I guarantee Josh would be a better human being when allowed to be the human he is than to be this cookie-cutter guy he simply can't be and stressed/anxious about it all the time. There is no shame in divorcing at this point---the shame, imo, is staying together.

 

 

Are the email addresses of Twitter users publicly viewable? What I've read suggests they aren't.

You can search for people via e-mail addresses just like you can on Facebook. 

[Aja]

For that matter exactly why is he apologizing to anyone but his wife, and arguably his family?  He doesn't hold public office, he doesn't even work right now AFAIK.  Does he really owe the Great American Public anything anymore including apologies?  I am not saying this to excuse him in anyway at all but honestly the apology only makes it seem like he's way more important in the grand scheme of things than he actually is!

I think I get what you're saying, and I agree. It's like his first reaction is to issue a public statement like he's the damn President or something. Idiot. I feel like he does owe the public a huge apology, and I don't feel like we got one. I feel like we got a very typically Duggary tunnel-vision low-intelligence attempt at damage control.

[CherryAmes]

But again, why?  How does he benefit from issuing apologies?  I suspect that it has a lot more to do with his (hopefully optimistic and doomed to failure) intent to pursue a career in public speaking of some kind than any real belief that he actually owes anyone an apology.  As I said the only person IMO that he really needs to apologize to is his wife.

. It's like his first reaction is to issue a public statement like he's the damn President or something.

 

Yes!  Exactly what I mean,  Thanks for expressing it better than I could.  It just smacked so much of "I am so important and I need to reach out to everyone"  god forbid he just work on his marriage and keep his mouth shut for a change!

[3girlsforus]

I think the problem with asking 'why' he is issuing apologies is that there are lots of reasons he is doing it but none of them are good reasons. Apologizing doesn't do any of the things Josh, JB, and Michelle want it to do. They still live in the fantasy land that they can say 'we are sinners too but God forgives and Josh is sorry' and everyone will say 'ok' and their lives will be back to how it was. That is their reason for the apology. The problem is the apology won't do that. So those of us with a brain look at it and say 'how stupid'. 

[SongbirdHollow]

Doing right by them means what exactly? He can be the dad who pays child support and sees his kids and is present in their lives, while not making their mother miserable. I guarantee Josh would be a better human being when allowed to be the human he is than to be this cookie-cutter guy

It means manning up, doing anything Anna says, changing his behavior, getting help. Thanking his God for what he's been given. He made his choices, he needs to live up to them. It ain't that hard.

If you are guaranteeing, I am first in line for my money back.

[kokapetl]

You can search for people via e-mail addresses just like you can on Facebook.

I couldn't find such a function. Someone on FreeJinger tried to figure out the email address by having a login code for the account sent to the Twitter users email, and they got a partially censored email address from the 'email sent' confirmation screen, "ps***@gmail.com", which can't be "joesmithsonnwa@gmail.com". Their actions in getting that partial email address probably weren't lawful, I don't recommend anyone else do it.

[Oldernowiser]

I was actually shocked when he admitted the AM thing AND the porn AND the cheating in his public statement. He could have gone with the "I was hacked!" defense and most of the low-information leg-humpers would have bought it.

Somebody decided to go with the Swaggart/Jim Bakker strategy and this was one very, very bad idea. It's one thing to pull out the "I have SINNED!" tears with loyal wifey by his side when it's the first scandal. For the second in three months? Very wrong move.

It does make me wonder who's running the circus.

[kokapetl]

I think I get what you're saying, and I agree. It's like his first reaction is to issue a public statement like he's the damn President or something. Idiot. I feel like he does owe the public a huge apology, and I don't feel like we got one. I feel like we got a very typically Duggary tunnel-vision low-intelligence attempt at damage control.

He couldn't really avoid having to confirm that it was his account at some point. It was in his interest to get that over and done with ASAP, might as well slip in some "I'm sorry" remarks at the same time. Of course, three versions of the statement didn't help end the speculation like just one single version of the statement might have.

[KateUK]

A woman is dirty after having a girl; versus a boy. 

 

That is why it's twice the time; it represents her impurity. 

 

Oh my God, is that what they really believe? This has made me so angry!!

 

Of all the twisted things I've heard about this religion, this takes the biscuit, how can any woman follow a religion that preaches this crap.

[CofCinci]

I can't be the only one waiting patiently for the steamy messages and penis pics, right?

I'm right with you. I've got a nice bottle of wine identified for the occasion. I plan to send husband and kid off, curl up on the sofa with my laptop and enjoy the hell out of this thread.