Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[3girlsforus]

I wonder if Daniel (or anyone else who is supporting Anna) would have more luck presenting the offer of a place stay and support etc as a way to give Josh the space he needs to focus on "getting better" and getting himself together. Then Anna would be away from him but she wasn't being told 'come live here and dump his ass'. Maybe ultimately then she'd have the nerve and support to actually leave him and she would have some distance to see that Josh really isn't going to get his act together.

[Ljohnson1987]

Thank God one of Anna's siblings has some sense. I doubt she'll listen though. She's too fargone.

[kokapetl]

I think Daniel will remain estranged from the rest of the family. Publicly slagging off her parents, in addition to publicly discussing what you discussed with her, in private, for no good reason doesn't really build trust.

[Marigold]

I don't know why sex should be a "priority" in marriage.

A component, yes. But priority?

Are all of these fundy men horndogs?

I meant more along the lines of making your spouse and their sexual needs important in your life. My husband and whatever he needs (sex, help with work, a date night, taking care of the XYZ) is a priority for me. Not an obsession but a priority. I know I am his priority also...that includes regular life stuff, sex and making sure sex is good for both of us. 

The minister was aiming at that you should not deny your spouse sex, use it as a weapon in an argument, withold etc. His basic thoughts were not crazy but the TIMING???  There is a time and place for everything...this was neither the time nor the place. 

[NewDigs]

I'm Team Daniel Keller and word from FJ is that her sister Suze is also anti-Josh on her private account. 

 

I'm happy Anna has someone who is speaking reasonably; even though I have a feeling she'll never leave, at least the option is there. 

 

@NewDigs I've been married for almost 11 years, I am more Agnostic than Atheist though you could call me either, and I have 2 kids. I have no issue admitting that sex is a major priority in my marriage. Honestly, I don't understand how some survive on the lack of sex. That isn't to say that I think anyone should be forced to give consent or do it out of obligation---but it's definitely not an area I've ever let suffer in my life. Oh, and I'm a woman.

 

I'm so off the the Prayer Closet for where my mind went on that one---I mean, Anna IS married to Josh after all. And Josh well...Bwahahahahaha! I needed that laugh, thank you!

Bolding mine.

I am not saying I agree with a sexless marriage. I am saying I don't understand it being a priority.

Didn't Josh make it a priority? Does that make his indiscretions Anna's fault?

That's the read I'm getting.

[NewDigs]

I meant more along the lines of making your spouse and their sexual needs important in your life. My husband and whatever he needs (sex, help with work, a date night, taking care of the XYZ) is a priority for me. Not an obsession but a priority. I know I am his priority also...that includes regular life stuff, sex and making sure sex is good for both of us.

The minister was aiming at that you should not deny your spouse sex, use it as a weapon in an argument, withold etc. His basic thoughts were not crazy but the TIMING??? There is a time and place for everything...this was neither the time nor the place.

Why should my spouse be more important?

I signed on for something closer to an equal partnership.

ETA I get what you're saying. We are each others' priority. Just not understanding why SEX seems to often come to the fore. Seemingly before many other considerations.

Edited August 24, 2015 by NewDigs

[Skittl1321]

Why should my spouse be more important?

 

Because he has a penis?

 

 

/making an assumption about you. Sorry if I'm wrong.

[NewDigs]

Because he has a penis?

 

 

/making an assumption about you. Sorry if I'm wrong.

And in Quiverfull-land the penis reigns supreme.

[KateUK]

Maybe a secret feral love child would do it?

 

I honestly don't think even that would make Anna leave him, she knows now he molested his sisters...his sisters for Gods sake!

 

And now the latest news of him committing adultery, and she is still living in the same house as him!

 

I have felt very sorry for Anna, I don't think she deserves any of this, but, if she stays with him now, then I have lost patience with her.

[BitterApple]

I don't think Anna was unwilling to make herself available. After all, this is the same girl who's been on the baby train for the past six years. That requires a pretty healthy appetite for sex. Josh, on the other hand, did not want a large family so I'm wondering if HE was the one holding back. Ashley Madison probably appealed to him because it meant sex with no strings, i.e., no babies once a year.

I have felt very sorry for Anna, I don't think she deserves any of this, but, if she stays with him now, then I have lost patience with her.

Especially given that she has a sibling willing to take her in and support her until she can get things figured out. Even if she doesn't leave Josh, you'd think she'd take Daniel up on his offer just to get away from the Crazy House and clear her head.

[Marigold]

I don't want to wander off Josh and Anna...but my husband and I are eachother's priorities...so that makes us equal. At least that is how we work it out. :) Neither one is more important or a bigger priority. Sex is an important part of a relationship so it's a priority for us that things are good between us. 

 

Josh made HIMSELF a priority with no consideration for his wife, children or his Duggar family (not that we care about J&M but still...). Josh is all about Josh. Or Joe Smithson. Or whoever he is at the moment. 

[zenme]

And in Quiverfull-land the penis reigns supreme.

 

NewDigs, when I read that in my mind's eye was a cartoon penis with a scepter and crown.  Thanks for the visual! LoL!

[NextIteration]

I keep thinking that poor Anna is only about five weeks post partum, I'd be in a fetal position at this point.

[3girlsforus]

I keep thinking that poor Anna is only about five weeks post partum, I'd be in a fetal position at this point.

 

Seriously - she is still physically recovering from the birth. Some women are even still bleeding at 5 weeks post partum. I can NOT fathom going through all of this then. Dealing with the child molestation situation while pregnant was bad enough. But this just after birth while trying to care for 3 other kids, because you know Josh isn't, I would be beyond overwhelmed.

 

honestly I'm hoping this is one reason she's saying she's not leaving him. In that situation, still post-partum and your world falling apart she probably doesn't have the emotional fortitude to even ask herself if she should leave. I'm hoping some time will give her some perspective. 

Especially given that she has a sibling willing to take her in and support her until she can get things figured out. Even if she doesn't leave Josh, you'd think she'd take Daniel up on his offer just to get away from the Crazy House and clear her head.

 

 

THIS!!! - don't decide to divorce or not to divorce... just get some space for a while.

[Loves2Dance]

Bolding mine.

I am not saying I agree with a sexless marriage. I am saying I don't understand it being a priority.

Didn't Josh make it a priority? Does that make his indiscretions Anna's fault?

That's the read I'm getting.

From what I understand of their religion; no isn't an option and that no includes whatever type of sex Josh wants. 

 

However, given that Josh's problems started before he was married; I don't think sex with Anna was enough. Is it her fault? No. not to anyone who has common sense, logic, the time line, and even an ounce of understanding in the human psyche. However, I don't think anyone who follows ATI/Gothard to have common sense, logic, or an ounce of understanding of human psychology. They see everything in terms of right and wrong with no middle; should Josh have done what he did? Well, no, but if Anna had pleased him it wouldn't have happened...yet it would have, even if she was the kinky dominatrix I have a feeling he wanted to be with. They just don't get that. 

[BitterApple]

I keep thinking that poor Anna is only about five weeks post partum, I'd be in a fetal position at this point.

I feel bad for poor Meredith as well. Anna was pregnant with her when the molestation scandal dropped, she was born the same day the show was cancelled and now she's lost in the shuffle of her parents' marriage problems. As unfair as it is to a child, her birth is a reminder of very bad times. I hope Josh and Anna don't subconsciously treat her different than their other kids.

[IndianPaintbrush]

Gothard has some pretty stringent rules about when a couple can't have sex:

At his Advanced Seminars in 1983, Gothard introduced sex regulations based upon Old Testament commands. Under the session titled “Six Purposes, Principles, and Keys To Fulfillment In The Marriage Relationship,” he told married couples to abstain from physical relations: 1. During the wife’s menstrual cycle; 2. Seven days after the cycles; 3. 40 days after the birth of a son; 4. 80 days after the birth of a daughter; and 5. The evening prior to worship. 

This doesn't leave a ton of opportunities.

 

Even if Anna greeted Josh at the door every evening wearing a Playboy bunny outfit, I guarantee this would still have happened.

Edited August 24, 2015 by IndianPaintbrush

[Marigold]

Anna is still in shock. What she does right now might not be what she does in 6 months from now. 

 

This marriage might end. Not right now. But down the road...when Josh doesn't change. Josh is one messed up individual on a lot of levels. He needs a major life change and unfortunately, prayer alone isn't going to change him. God works through counselors, psychologists, psychiatrists etc. But Josh will never get to that point because he is trapped in some fear mongering system that professionals are evil people. 

So...in 6 months, when nothing has really changed other than his computer being on total lockdown and a chaperone following him everywhere...Anna might have a different mindset. Right now she really believes he is going to repent and change. He can repent but he will need human help in changing. 

 

Just thought of that...guess Josh will need a male chaperone 24/7 now?  Gee, something for the howlers to do. Escort Josh to Chic-Fil-A every day. Wonder if that is more fun than being squished in Binseewald's pick up truck on a date with Jessa?

 

Josh probably has his phone, computer and any other contact with the outside world taken away. 

[zenme]

I feel bad for poor Meredith as well. Anna was pregnant with her when the molestation scandal dropped, she was born the same day the show was cancelled and now she's lost in the shuffle of her parents' marriage problems. As unfair as it is to a child, her birth is a reminder of very bad times. I hope Josh and Anna don't subconsciously treat her different than their other kids.

 

I'm hoping Meredith is reminder that of innocence and sheer love that is still exists in the world. 

Anna's life is completely turned over on itself.  Everything she thought she knew about her marriage and Josh is no more.  I hope that once the dust is settled that Anna re-evalutes all those things and changes the way her family raises children.

[Oldernowiser]

If I'm doing the math right, even if you don't count the postpartum time out (WTF with twice as long after giving birth to a daughter? I don't even want to know...) that's two weeks out of every month and every Saturday night that's a no-sex zone.

I don't give two shits. It still doesn't excuse anything.

[Anne Elk]

Based on the one "real life" instance I've seen of this situation, Anna will need to break free of her parents and their teaching before she'll have the nerve to leave her husband. It took several years in the case I saw.

 

At this point Anna is under a ton of pressure. Everybody in her entire world (and a large number of total strangers, like us) has an opinion about the most intimate part of her life. In the face of all that, the easiest thing for her to do is just go with the flow and stay with him. That relieves some of the immediate pressure, plus it makes her family, the Duggars, and her church happy with her.

 

Best case scenario is that maybe in a few months when the pressure has died down a little, she'll be able to think about her situation more clearly. Maybe she'll even realize the truth of some of the things people here have been saying. She may decide to leave him then. It would certainly be a lot easier to make that decision when it's not going to be a media circus. 

 

But even if she decides to stay .... I just don't want her to internalize all that poisonous patriarchial thinking that this is all her fault and her failure. That might just break her completely.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Anne Elk

[barbedwire]

The problem is Anna needs to find her voice, take over, and say what SHE needs if that marriage is going to be restored.  But she has not been programed to do that.  I wish she would take Daniel up on his offer and flee with her kids for the rest of the year and think things over.  If those bastards are telling her that she didn't put out enough, and that is why Joshie fell, then @*_#$(Q)&*%Q)*&!!

 

She needs to speak up.

[NewDigs]

The problem is Anna needs to find her voice, take over, and say what SHE needs if that marriage is going to be restored.  But she has not been programed to do that.  I wish she would take Daniel up on his offer and flee with her kids for the rest of the year and think things over.  If those bastards are telling her that she didn't put out enough, and that is why Joshie fell, then @*_#$(Q)&*%Q)*&!!

 

She needs to speak up.

I don't think she knows how.

[barbedwire]

I fear you are right.

[graefin]

Gothard has some pretty stringent rules about when a couple can't have sex:

This doesn't leave a ton of opportunities.

 

Even if Anna greeted Josh at the door every evening wearing a Playboy bunny outfit, I guarantee this would still have happened.

If they are abstaining until 7 days after menstruation ends, doesn't that just increase the likelihood of conception?

 

Maybe Josh just wanted to be able to have sex without it resulting in another baby.

[Granny58]

Even if we don't rationally admit parental influence, we can decide how to act. My mother was a monster. I chose not to be. Josh knew from biblical teachings, if nothing else, that adultery was wrong. Yet he pursued it and then blamed it in old Satan.

in fact, my parents were/are (1 still living) quite great, but not perfect, and I see in those imperfections how they shaped many of my decisions and personality traits.  I don't blame them, but I wish I had wised up sooner.  Good or bad - parents are fundamental influences.  

[NewDigs]

If they are abstaining until 7 days after menstruation ends, doesn't that just increase the likelihood of conception?

 

Maybe Josh just wanted to be able to have sex without it resulting in another baby.

I think you're giving him too much credit.

[mbutterfly]

Gothard has some pretty stringent rules about when a couple can't have sex:

This doesn't leave a ton of opportunities.

 

Even if Anna greeted Josh at the door every evening wearing a Playboy bunny outfit, I guarantee this would still have happened.

I started to say that is a lot of missed days. Then I remembered that these women don't have so many periods as the rest of us. 

[barbedwire]

I think Josh is overwhelmed with 4 kids and he is not even 30.  And if he has his own opinion, like "I don't think I can handle any more kids" then he is shunned (like Daniel keller) and the gravy train stops and what does he do? And he has this wife who wants as many babies as possible, even trying to surpass her MIL.  I in NO way condone ANYTHING Josh has done, but these so called family members are not helping him at all.  If only Anna would insist on a professional, in another state far away from "family" to help Josh and help them both make decisions.  If only....

[NewDigs]

Once again, I don't think Josh is capable of self-reflection.

He's all, mememememe.

[Aja]

 

 

1. What message is she sending to Josh? Is her staying giving him a green light to cheat again? That's clearly the message he got on the molestation issue. He "confessed" as a teenager and nothing much changed for him. Now he's been caught cheating - he didn't confess; he was caught. Her staying with him without major changes in his behavior and the way he is treated is nothing more than her handing him the credit card next time. 

 

 

I was just coming here to post exactly this. Josh's life has been appallingly consequence-free. He violated his sisters in the most disgusting, traumatizing way possible and life basically went on as before. No real treatment and reassurances that God and his sisters forgave him. A few years later, he's a reality TV star, his wedding is televised, he lands a job in DC making a salary I don't even want to think about to basically carry on being an entitled, hypocritical douche. The molestation scandal breaks. His mother and father go on national TV all indignant with the whole sleeping/clothes/didn't know what happened/forgiveness/long time ago/evil liberal media crap and two of his sisters that he VIOLATED follow suit. The WOMEN he VIOLATED as LITTLE GIRLS (who also happen to be his SISTERS) go on national TV and say "Oh my goodness shut up y'all! It was so long ago!" If Josh's sense of immunity wasn't already cemented at that point, I'm sure that did the trick. The fact that he frantically tried to cancel his Ashley Madison accounts only AFTER the molestation scandal broke just proves that he doesn't give a shit about God or Christian values or his "precious wife Anna" at all. Now this happens and all accounts indicate that Anna is flatly refusing to even consider making Josh face any consequences for it, and is in fact even accepting at least part of the blame herself. She's basically guaranteeing that shit like this will continue to happen to her and continue to get worse. Anna darling, at some point you're going to have to face it. You DID make a mistake. You married one of the stupidest losers on the planet. But it's not unfixable by any stretch, and it's largely not your fault. You trusted that the people closest to you were encouraging you and giving you advice based on what was in your best interest and this whole time they've been using you for their own selfish gain. Your parents, your husband, your batshit in-laws--they're only thinking of one person when they open their mouths and speak to you, and it isn't you or your kids. YOU are in charge of YOU. YOU are in charge of your children. You need to make yourself and your kids your number one priority because, I guarantee it, you're the only one who is going to as long as you stay in that mess. Call your brother.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Aja

[Missy Vixen]

Anna's older brother Daniel - who also left ATI many years ago - sticks up for Anna. Calls Smuggar a "prik" and a "pig."  Read what he says about Anna and their parents. Both responses are totally what we predicted here. Anna just does not have it in her to leave. :(

 

 

https://instagram.com/p/6vQllYg4iM/

 

https://instagram.com/p/6vXxafA4jh/

I don't know much about him so I'm really shimmying out on the ledge here, but Daniel Keller FTW! Now THAT's a big brother.

 

Anna, take his offer. You might not be carrying Coach handbags and driving a Hummer 2 anymore, but you will be living with a family member who truly loves you and your kids.

[NextIteration]

In my head, the 2nd AM account was being paid for on the FRC credit card, chuckle.  Only reason the subscription stopped.  That's only in my mind though, nothing factual about it.  But it makes me laugh at FRC more, so there is that.

[subber]

Josh is 27 years old. Anna should be under no illusion that he will change his ways and be faithful the next 50+ years. Not going to happen. He's not the person she thought he was when she said I do, and, most likely, never will be. He seems to want a lot of sex with different partners. I would bet big that he paid for the extra-marital sex and only regrets that he was caught.

I hope for both of their sakes, they sit down with or without a counselor and have a heart to heart (no Boob or Michelle within 20 miles) to figure out where they go from here. He needs to for once in his life level with her about what he wants. Lots of speculation on here about what Anna should do. I think Josh needs to decide what he wants to do as well. They are both adults and need to put their families' opinions aside and focus on what's best for them and their children going forth.

[LilyoftheValley]

http://www.wetpaint.com/josh-duggar-okcupid-profile-2-1435006/

 

I'm not sure how successful the model's lawsuit will be if the state laws are mixed on subject, but it's another headache for Josh.

So far the guy's only damages are that he lost a DJing gig.  I don't think that will amount to more than a $1,000.  BTW none of this is identity theft, but there could be a cause of action for false light or defamation, but really I don't see it, and Josh's intent was never to harm this guy.

[JenCarroll]

I started to say that is a lot of missed days. Then I remembered that these women don't have so many periods as the rest of us.

Well, that's true; I hadn't really thought about that either, but AFAIK it's pretty much open season when the woman is pregnant.

Aaaand I'm starting to think way too closely about the sex lives of Josh and Anna Duggar. Ick.

[LilyoftheValley]

I have no idea what is going on with those Kellers. They always did look like weirdos to me. Mrs. keller looks like she checked out a long time ago. 

According to the brother, they are horrible people. I'm not sure the brother is very objective though. Clearly there is bad blood there...how does he know for sure what is going on? Doesn't seem he is in contact with any of them. I wish he is in contact with Anna though. Maybe he could give her some spunk. 

 

That sermon was so FREAKING AWFUL.  That minister is a punk for preaching that crap in the middle of the Duggar scandal.

 

His point is valid; a spouse should make sex a priority in marriage. BUT TO PREACH THAT AT THE DUGGAR'S (sometimes) CHURCH AT THIS TIME? How awful for Anna. Everyone who heard or read that immediately thinks that is a slam to Anna. 

 

Nice job there, mr minister. Making Anna look like crap while blaming Josh's behavior on culture? Yep, culture is all sexed up and often trashy. But every married man is not doing what Josh did. Josh is a douchebag. No excuses and don't blame the culture. 

 

Mr. Minister needs to refer to Jessa's Instagram post...jessa preached it better! 

The reason culture is like this is because men like Josh exist to begin with.  This guy has cause and effect reversed.  Culture is full of trashy sex stuff because the Josh Duggars of the world love it.  

[kokapetl]

So far the guy's only damages are that he lost a DJing gig. I don't think that will amount to more than a $1,000. BTW none of this is identity theft, but there could be a cause of action for false light or defamation, but really I don't see it, and Josh's intent was never to harm this guy.

The guy doesn't seem to be the litigious type, and he doesn't have a lawyer yet. Plus, Josh has no money, what's he gonna win, Josh and Anna's house?

[NextIteration]

All this Gothard rules of sex begs a couple questions for me, can they have sex when the female is pregnant?  I see that's not covered in the rules above, but clearly you are "wasting seed" because you can't get pregnant if you are pregnant, and what about sex that is not of the type that you get pregnant from?

 

Can you masturbate once you're hitched?  The mind boggles.

Edited August 24, 2015 by NextIteration

[Honey]

I think it was on his OK Cupid account where ge had to answer some questions, one of them was:

 

What does "wherefore" mean in wherefore are thou? ( like Romeo and Juliet).

 

Josh the genius answered "where".  What a complete idiot he is.

[NewDigs]

The guy doesn't seem to be the litigious type, and he doesn't have a lawyer yet. Plus, Josh has no money, what's he gonna win, Josh and Anna's house?

If he's smart he'll win enough publicity to make some money.

Grab it while ya' got it. Publicity is a flash in the pan. Time for a little self-promotion.

I guess I'm a heathen.

[Missy Vixen]

Poor Anna, it's not easy to leave everything you have ever known. It takes a very very strong person. She has never had to make her own decesions or had any say in her own life. How can she be expected to do that over night? I think people who expect her to pack up and leave are viewing the situation through the eyes of someone who realizes they have choices.

If there's one thing I would wish for Anna right now, I hope that she has a friend. Maybe she met someone in DC that she hit it off with, a friend from her old neighborhood or whatever. Someone she can call that's not making money off her and not pressuring her because a divorce in either family would hurt their "image".

 

I think Anna is reeling. I also think she's in shock. Let's face it -- I don't care for her smugness, her homophobia or her religious beliefs, but if there was one thing we all need, it's a friend that's going to listen and hopefully can inch her closer to that "I have options. And I have to get myself and my kids out of this" realization. At the very least, I hope she told Smuggar to pack himself up and go live at the TTH for a while. Or, he can go bunk with Jessa Blessa and Bin. After all, Jessa Blessa is so forgiving.

 

I used to think I would never wish something like this on another human being. I'm thinking Jessa Blessa needs a taste of her own medicine.

[Defrauder]

And in Quiverfull-land the penis reigns supreme.

And as we have seen penis does not equate with genius in Quiverfull-land no matter how much they want it to.

[NewDigs]

And as we have seen penis does not equate with genius in Quiverfull-land no matter how much they want it to.

Yeah. It's much easier to picture a penis with crown and scepter (and thank you zenme for that original thought-image, I think.) than a penis with a mortarboard.

edited for spelling

Edited August 24, 2015 by NewDigs

[SometimesBites]

Agree so much with Aja's post above: Josh's entire life has supported him in remaining a serial cheater.

 

"Consequences" are only theoretical for Joshua J. Duggar. He has a lifelong pattern of being deviant (or devious), getting caught, profusely apologizing (with a 'soft heart' and tears, I'm sure--probably some breast-beating and sworn vows of change thrown in for good measure), then going on to act on his sexual whims/compulsions again. And again, and so on, until he completes the cycle and gets caught.

 

As another poster so aptly reminded, Anna should forget the precepts of Gothard, her parents, and her in-laws, and meditate on the words of Maya Angelou: "When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM." True personal change is possible, but it is REALLY TOUGH, and Joshie don't do really tough.

[galax-arena]

What does "wherefore" mean in wherefore are thou? ( like Romeo and Juliet).

Josh the genius answered "where".  What a complete idiot he is.

You know, I don't expect everyone to be familiar with Shakespeare's English. I do consider OKC questions like this to be important in deciding whether someone's worth your time, but maybe not in the way that people would assume. I figure, okay, in this age of the Internet, you can find out the answer to that sort of question in two seconds flat. So what excuse is there for getting the answer wrong? If you get it wrong, it means not only are you ignorant about this particular word (which is understandable) but that you perhaps lack the general intellectual acuity to recognize your own shortcomings and weaknesses. I'm more impatient with the latter than the former. I'd respect someone whose thought process went like this:

 

"Hmm, okay, that seems like an obvious question. "Wherefore" has the word "where" so it obviously must mean "where." But... I don't know. That seems too easy. And this is Shakespeare we're talking about, with all those thees and thous. I'm not even sure if that dude was speaking English half the time. I should google it just to make sure."

 

So when I see that someone got the question right, I don't automatically assume that they're a smartypants when it comes to Shakespeare, but I do assume that at the very least they cared enough to make sure they got the answer right. And that they were resourceful enough to figure out the answer.

 

And if they get the question wrong and mark it as being "very important"? Well then.

 

tl;dr - Apparently I have a lot of ~feelings when it comes to OK Cupid questions. 

[Defrauder]

I was just coming here to post exactly this. Josh's life has been appallingly consequence-free. He violated his sisters in the most disgusting, traumatizing way possible and life basically went on as before. No real treatment and reassurances that God and his sisters forgave him. A few years later, he's a reality TV star, his wedding is televised, he lands a job in DC making a salary I don't even want to think about to basically carry on being an entitled, hypocritical douche. The molestation scandal breaks. His mother and father go on national TV all indignant with the whole sleeping/clothes/didn't know what happened/forgiveness/long time ago/evil liberal media crap and two of his sisters that he VIOLATED follow suit. The WOMEN he VIOLATED as LITTLE GIRLS (who also happen to be his SISTERS) go on national TV and say "Oh my goodness shut up y'all! It was so long ago!" If Josh's sense of immunity wasn't already cemented at that point, I'm sure that did the trick. The fact that he frantically tried to cancel his Ashley Madison accounts only AFTER the molestation scandal broke just proves that he doesn't give a shit about God or Christian values or his "precious wife Anna" at all. Now this happens and all accounts indicate that Anna is flatly refusing to even consider making Josh face any consequences for it, and is in fact even accepting at least part of the blame herself. She's basically guaranteeing that shit like this will continue to happen to her and continue to get worse. Anna darling, at some point you're going to have to face it. You DID make a mistake. You married one of the stupidest losers on the planet. But it's not unfixable by any stretch, and it's largely not your fault. You trusted that the people closest to you were encouraging you and giving you advice based on what was in your best interest and this whole time they've been using you for their own selfish gain. Your parents, your husband, your batshit in-laws--they're only thinking of one person when they open their mouths and speak to you, and it isn't you or your kids. YOU are in charge of YOU. YOU are in charge of your children. You need to make yourself and your kids your number one priority because, I guarantee it, you're the only one who is going to as long as you stay in that mess. Call your brother.

Go girl! You say it like it is.  Mail to Anna, personal and confidential to be opened by addressee only.

[3girlsforus]

 

Josh probably has his phone, computer and any other contact with the outside world taken away. 

 

This is probably true but also super stupid. Is Josh really being faithful if he can only keep away from these activities by taking all the ability to do so away? If my husband only not cheating on me because he is being watched 24/7, then he might as well be cheating on me.

[Happyfatchick]

I'm still seething about that, and I saw these posts a couple of hours ago. What kind of parents DO that to a daughter who is being made a complete fool by her cuckolding husband? Fuck you, Ma and Pa Keller. I have seen it with their two youngest boys being sent to the Wallers on many occasions; they are DESPERATE to have no more of their kids leave Gothardism. 

 

And Pa Keller is NOT a high-ranking person in ATI. I don't know how that rumor started, but it's just not true. They are just suck-up true believers.  The prison ministry has only gained some esteem in the past few years because of David Waller. It wasn't because of his FIL, other than that he facilitates the Journey to the Heart for the kids to come down to preach to the inmates. Waller facilitated all of that from his position at Gothard HQ. 

 

But back on topic, with parents like these, who needs enemies? Poor, poor Anna. Not only does she not have the courage to leave, she has almost no support to do so. I hope she really understands what Daniel is willing to do for her here and maybe take him up on this in the next few weeks once things die down a bit.

Sew, I haven't seen this post. The one that made you puke a little. Can you post it here, or a link? Thanks! (I want to be livid too!!!)

[kokapetl]

I'm still seething about that, and I saw these posts a couple of hours ago. What kind of parents DO that to a daughter who is being made a complete fool by her cuckolding husband? Fuck you, Ma and Pa Keller. I have seen it with their two youngest boys being sent to the Wallers on many occasions; they are DESPERATE to have no more of their kids leave Gothardism.

And Pa Keller is NOT a high-ranking person in ATI. I don't know how that rumor started, but it's just not true. They are just suck-up true believers. The prison ministry has only gained some esteem in the past few years because of David Waller. It wasn't because of his FIL, other than that he facilitates the Journey to the Heart for the kids to come down to preach to the inmates. Waller facilitated all of that from his position at Gothard HQ.

But back on topic, with parents like these, who needs enemies? Poor, poor Anna. Not only does she not have the courage to leave, she has almost no support to do so. I hope she really understands what Daniel is willing to do for her here and maybe take him up on this in the next few weeks once things die down a bit.

This is why I hope that by JimChelle being pissed off with Josh they understand Anna's situation and support her. Her own parents are far too deep into a "hair shirt" martyr lifestyle to help her.