Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[MrsMommy]

Based on...his public persona? How cute his kids are?

If we've learned anything about this family, it's not to trust their facade.

Based on the fact no one else has came forward saying he has done it again. No victims= no crime, seems to me he changed his life after accepting God and that is awesome!

[Satchels of gold]

After they did not seek treatment he went on to victimize 3 others girls, so no that does not meet my standards. CPS did not become involved until the statute of limitations ran out and Josh was an adult, consequently they had no authority over him. They could not did not deem him cured or deem him no longer a threat, their only concern was for the safety of the children in the home at that moment of time. Is Josh cured? I have no idea but the best predictor of future behavoir is past behavoir. He engaged in molestation 20 times.

[Tunia]

Yes. But, I didn't look too closely at it. I was wrong. Thanks for the catch!

 

I thought they were going for a Roman's 2:29 character lesson, but they weren't. I had to zoom in to read the poster 'Circumstances don't dictate your character, they revel it!' is what the poster really says. Odd, seeing as how circumstances reveled that Jim Bob and Michelle's character didn't including doing all that much for abuse victims around Michael's age. Circumstances also revealed what obligate liars Jim Bob and Michelle are.

 

Oh, thank heavens...I was trying to imagine what reason(s) the Duggars would want to have a poster in their home openly celebrating circumcision (even if they do have 10 boys)!  Whew...talk about "defrauding" and "private parts" - LOL!

Edited June 16, 2015 by Tunia

[Sew Sumi]

Based on the fact no one else has came forward saying he has done it again. No victims= no crime, seems to me he changed his life after accepting God and that is awesome!

Josh really wasn't given much of a choice now, was he? I also recall his bio on the JA20 website saying he accepted Christ when he was well under 10 years old. Which is it? Again, the Duggars are trying to have their cake and eat it. Those of us who think critically have the obligation to call them out on their bullshittery. Being forgiven =/= answering to the law for his crimes. 

[birkenstock]

Based on the Jim Bob and Michelle's Fox interview, sexual abuse is rampant within the Gothard community and they like to "handle" these problems in house. I'm not saying that Josh has committed further acts inside or outside of the family. However, there can be crimes and victims even if people abused by a sexual predator haven't come forward. 

[bluebonnet]

I think Michelle and Jim Bob using the argument that it wasn't really a crime because the victim was asleep and didn't know is what makes it really disturbing and makes it hard to not at least subconsciously wonder what else has gone on.  All I could think is that they were trying to frame this as the "if a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound" thought experiment.  I seriously kept waiting for them to say, "If a hand gropes in the sleep, does it make a crime".

[mbutterfly]

Based on the fact no one else has came forward saying he has done it again. No victims= no crime, seems to me he changed his life after accepting God and that is awesome!

I didn't notice any mention of a time line in which Josh accepted God only after he had assaulted the girls. I assumed Josh was already a Christian when he was 14. Did I miss something? 

Oh, I see about Josh said he was well under 10. And if Jim Bob and Michelle are correct about sexual molestation being common in their religious group, then these folks have generally accepted Christ. You can be a Christian and have emotional problems that may cause you do to really bad things unless you receive the appropriate care. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by mbutterfly

[MonicaM]

I find the idea that his victims may have been unaware and asleep even more disturbing than if they were definitely awake.  I think the most appropriate action for Josh to take at this point is to close all of his social media accounts and retire permanently from public life.  His image can't be repaired and pictures of his children only remind everyone that he isn't as child friendly as he would have you believe.  

 

If an unrelated male (that wasn't a member of their faith) had committed similar acts on any of the Duggar children, Michelle and JB would have been screaming for a public hanging.  

[Churchhoney]

That's the pretty much why it became compulsory in Australia. Irish Catholic = working class = union members = Labor voters. If everyone was legally compelled to vote, it became extremely difficult to coerce the underclass (or any class) not to vote.

 

Thanks for explaining this. I knew that voting was compulsory in Oz but didn't know the history.

[Literata]

The most heartbreaking thing about this, to me, continues to be that Boob and MEchelle failed Josh. Every heterosexual pubescent boy is curious about girls: a boy who acts on that curiosity by victimizing anyone, let alone his sisters, is sick.

Forget impulse control; what would go wrong in a young boy's brain to make him WANT to touch the vulva and breasts of his preschool-age sister? I fervently hope he did actually work with a licensed therapist who helped him understand his feelings as well as his impulses.

I hate Josh's smugness, narrow-mindedness and bigotry. But overwhelmingly, I pity him. His parents had a responsibility to help him; they didn't, and his life -- and the lives of his wife and kids -- will never be the same.

[Happyfatchick]

I didn't notice any mention of a time line in which Josh accepted God only after he had assaulted the girls. I assumed Josh was already a Christian when he was 14. Did I miss something? 

 

MB, I'm almost POSITIVE I read that somewhere - I believe JB said it (during the interview???) that after the molestation (not that JB used that word...) Josh had "found Christ" or something along those lines.  I'll research.

 

Having said that, I'll point out that my dear dear SIL (I just threw up a little, in my mouth) has lost Jesus and found Him again about 15 times.  It's a regular roller coaster ride.  But this LAST time... "I was SERIOUS!".  This LAST time:  THIS is the one you can believe. 

 

I'm thinking that (because of his youthfulness - and I'm back to Josh now) the "line" by the family would be that OBVIOUSLY, he hadn't turned his heart fully over to God that first (or first 14) time(s).  You know.  Once he was fully "outed" (and he was being watched too closely to continue his nighttime forays), THEN he fully turned his life over to God.  So at that point, I'm guessing he was saved.  This is just a guess, but a pretty good one I think.

 

Whatever, dude.

[cmr2014]

It sounded to me like they knew they made mistakes, thinking your a bad parent is one sign of knowing you made a mistake, they knew what josh did was wrong and they got him help, no it may not meet some people's standards but it met cps standards and he seems "cured" to me. I hate to use the word cured but couldn't think of a better word

 

When I very very little (4-5), I occasionally had a nightmare where I was being chased by a man in a mask wearing a black cape (a bit like the Hamburgler). I mention this because we are hard-wired to want to be able to tell the good guys from the bad guys. We want to believe that we could identify a child molester (e.g. creepy guy in raincoat hanging around the park), but we really can't.

 

I would like to believe that Josh hasn't re-offended. He seems like a nice enough guy (except for his politics), and he has a lovely family. That's not how it works, though. That is how known offenders manage to molest children for years and years -- the church  sex scandals, the Penn State scandal, and even Gothard himself whose sexual harassment was known for years before he was finally forced to step down.

[Sew Sumi]

MB, I'm almost POSITIVE I read that somewhere - I believe JB said it (during the interview???) that after the molestation (not that JB used that word...) Josh had "found Christ" or something along those lines.  I'll research.

 

Having said that, I'll point out that my dear dear SIL (I just threw up a little, in my mouth) has lost Jesus and found Him again about 15 times.  It's a regular roller coaster ride.  But this LAST time... "I was SERIOUS!".  This LAST time:  THIS is the one you can believe. 

 

I'm thinking that (because of his youthfulness - and I'm back to Josh now) the "line" by the family would be that OBVIOUSLY, he hadn't turned his heart fully over to God that first (or first 14) time(s).  You know.  Once he was fully "outed" (and he was being watched too closely to continue his nighttime forays), THEN he fully turned his life over to God.  So at that point, I'm guessing he was saved.  This is just a guess, but a pretty good one I think.

 

Whatever, dude.

Yes, the party line during both interviews was that Josh had a "life change" when he went to build the new Gothard compound in Little Rock. That's all well and good, but again, being forgiven does not equal being accountable to the law for one's actions. I'm sure there are plenty of guys sitting on death row who are really sorry they did what they did, and asked Jesus to forgive them. It doesn't make them any less guilty. 

 

Back to Jim Holt, being a chaplain and counselor at a facility meant to treat youth offenders like Josh, wouldn't he have also been a mandated reporter? But he instead put on his Church Elder hat to resolve this situation. 

 

It's so messed up when you realize that if Holt had done what he was supposed to do, the case would have been dealt with through proper channels and the records SEALED for good. Add Holt to the list of those who failed the Duggar children. 

 

Talk about some heavy duty irony. 

[Emme]

In all of the body guards in all of the world, he chose THAT one. It certainly sounds like a TLC pick to me especially if both are under contracts with Discovery.

TLC seems to have a contract with the security firm for which Steve works.  He's been seen around the talent of several of their shows.  From the stories over the years they are there mainly to keep fans and photographers/paps from getting too close to the filming or to keep them from harassing the talent.

Yeah, Steve Neild is the TLC bodyguard go to. Also, his home is in the Maryland suburbs (other side of the city from Josh and Anna), so he could easily help put on the Maryland end.

[Emme]

FWIW, Josh and Anna rejoined social media tonight, feting Mike, who turned 4 today. Party with cupcakes at the TTH. No Sierra cake to be found, just some cupcakes and Josie (probably licking them).

I forgot about Sierra! She (and her so-called) career have been victimized too! LOL

Yes, they totally ignored Jackson's b-day.

So, business as usual?

[zenme]

I assume he would feel guilt that what he did has harmed his victims (after it all came out in InTouch), it might be the first time he felt guilty about their suffering though

 

It's possible.  A decent human being would feel guilt, but given Josh's inappropriate jokes throughout the years, I don't know.  Plus, I guess we wouldn't even know.  We just have to take Michelle and Jim Bob's word for it.  His release barely touched on his victims (no pun intended), and was more about his own life and the "road he was going down."  I think he's angrier that his secret was found out and that he's losing money as a result.

[Chicklet]

After reading tons of interesting viewpoints here and watching the Duggar family spew their reasons for the coverup I get the idea that they aren't embarrassed, they aren't ashamed, they are irritated that their gravy train has been overturned. This is all insignificant crap that doesn't mean anything, "look over here at what we pretend to represent, heathens!" If I want hypocrisy I can look at a politician- a real one- to find it.

I'm done with the Duggars even if I have to miss cute Izzy and spawn of Jessa.

[Anne Elk]

The more I think about it, the more it occurs to me that Josh really was foolish to take that position with the FRC with something like this lurking in his background. DC politics, particularly culture-war politics, is a total bloodbath, and people have been taken down by much less. After the Oprah incident the whole family knew that this was not a secret and there were plenty of people in Arkansas willing to talk about it. Were they really that naive, or just overconfident in themselves? I guess they wouldn't be the first people to believe that fame made them immune.

 

I'll bet there were a lot of pissed-off people at the FRC when they found out. They're all professionals who worked for years to get where they are, only to find their organization stained by some reality-TV bozo they hired basically for PR value. Josh has really burned his bridges there. I'm certainly not sorry about that.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Anne Elk

[kokapetl]

It's possible. A decent human being would feel guilt, but given Josh's inappropriate jokes throughout the years, I don't know. Plus, I guess we wouldn't even know. We just have to take Michelle and Jim Bob's word for it. His release barely touched on his victims (no pun intended), and was more about his own life and the "road he was going down." I think he's angrier that his secret was found out and that he's losing money as a result.

Well I'd assume he knows he's ruined his life, along with Anna and the kids. Upon his return to Tontitown he would have been greeted by some pissed off Duggar sisters. I hope he's realised he's figuratively fucked them as well and feels guilty

Edited June 19, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Aja]

Well I'd assume he knows he'd ruined his life, along with Anna and the kids. 

I genuinely do not think that's how he's processed this whole thing, although it definitely should be. I think Josh sees himself as he always has--God's special boy. Think about it. If you MOLEST YOUR SISTERS and the "consequence" is to have them get up in front of a church and declare that they've forgiven you--and then, when the public you've been deceiving for nearly a decade gets understandably indignant, your parents go on national TV and blame the police, blame the media, blame everyone but you, and go to extreme and downright disturbing lengths to convince everyone that what you did was no big deal? I really don't think Josh has the intelligence to circumnavigate all of that reinforcement and truly reflect on himself. No way.

[kokapetl]

Perhaps not, but he's gotta know that what he did, and the revelation to the entire world of what he did, has screwed them all.

He's the kind of person who would've appeared on Megyn Kelly's Softball Hour on Fox News to blame someone else if he could, but he didn't, because he can't.

[Wellfleet]

The more I think about it, the more it occurs to me that Josh really was foolish to take that position with the FRC with something like this lurking in his background. DC politics, particularly culture-war politics, is a total bloodbath, and people have been taken down by much less. After the Oprah incident the whole family knew that this was not a secret and there were plenty of people in Arkansas willing to talk about it. Were they really that naive, or just overconfident in themselves? I guess they wouldn't be the first people to believe that fame made them immune.

 

I'll bet there were a lot of pissed-off people at the FRC when they found out. They're all professionals who worked for years to get where they are, only to find their organization stained by some reality-TV bozo they hired basically for PR value. Josh has really burned his bridges there. I'm certainly not sorry about that.

 

Boob and Me-chelle might have been overconfident and/or naive - but I think they were just plain stupid. I'm not sure it ever occurred to them that things would go the way they have. Neither one of them have shown any capacity for examining anything from different viewpoints and thinking "What if?" I think Boob was born thinking he was right about everything; finding Gothard, where all men are always right and always in charge - was icing on the cake for him. And Me-chelle, I think, is so lazy that she loves having Boob being the one who has to make all the decisions. Means she doesn't even have to be bothered thinking about X at all.

[anony mouse]

Well I'd assume he knows he'd ruined his life, along with Anna and the kids. Upon his return to Tontitown he would have been greeted by some pissed off Duggar sisters. I hope he's realised he's figuratively fucked them as well and feels guilty

You know it. Watch your back, Josh - Jessa's coming for you and it's not going to be pretty.

[GEML]

I'll just throw out there that being an adolescent and having to stand up in front of your church and confess your sexual history and thoughts is not something you can really make a call about how "easily" someone got off unless you've done it. I will also mention that the more "golden" you are when you have to do this, the more painful and humiliating it is likely to be.

I'm not sure that in terms of outright humiliation that what Josh is experiencing is as painful as that time was he doesn't know us, or any of the people posting in social media. Huckabee and his family stood behind him. Assuming he has not done anything, this might be hard because he's let people down in a sort of big picture way, but in the way it was when it happened? This might be easier.

[Julia]

I genuinely do not think that's how he's processed this whole thing, although it definitely should be. I think Josh sees himself as he always has--God's special boy. 

 

I wonder about that. He seems awfully clingy for someone who thinks he's got God on autodial. I think who he does have on autodial is Jim Bob. It wouldn't surprise me at all if his view of himself as the rightful Duggar heir is way more confident than his view of himself as Josh.

[zenme]

I wonder about that. He seems awfully clingy for someone who thinks he's got God on autodial. I think who he does have on autodial is Jim Bob. It wouldn't surprise me at all if his view of himself as the rightful Duggar heir is way more confident than his view of himself as Josh.

 

Yes.  He seems weak or insecure. 

[Anne Elk]

Josh's upbringing was being raised to believe that any deviation from what Jim Bob said was sinning. Even thinking the non-Jim Bob-approved thought was a sin. Is it any wonder the guy has no identity of his own? 

 

I'd make a psychological guess as to why Josh seems to be not just possibly self-destructive, but actually destructive to them all ... but who knows. It's probably not that simple, but I wonder.

[zenme]

Josh and his brothers and sisters were never allowed to make decisions of their own.  They were never allowed to do anything without having another person present.  They were never trusted or given the confidence to do anything outside of the family.  I'm sure that because John D and Joe are pursuing things outside of Jimbo's comfort zone, they may fare better in the long run.  Josh never seemed as competent as John D or even Joe, and I'm sure he's feeling incompetent x10 right now.

[lulu69]

 

 

 

 

The more I think about it, the more it occurs to me that Josh really was foolish to take that position with the FRC with something like this lurking in his background. DC politics, particularly culture-war politics, is a total bloodbath, and people have been taken down by much less. After the Oprah incident the whole family knew that this was not a secret and there were plenty of people in Arkansas willing to talk about it. Were they really that naive, or just overconfident in themselves? I guess they wouldn't be the first people to believe that fame made them immune.

 

Or maybe the 'incidents' were not really a big deal in their eyes?! Afterall, it was only a few times..... to girls, who probably tempted Josh anyway.... & it happens in families within the Gothard circles ALL the time (pls know I'm being sarcastic).

 

To this day Mama June still doesn't think what she did was so horrible (bringing the man who raped her own daughter back into her home & life) & I'm betting the Duggars really don't get just how gross/disturbing Josh's actions & their responses were.

[GEML]

In the parable known as "The Prodigal Son" there are actually two brothers. One who squanders his birthright and gets a fatted calf, but nothing else upon his return. Another who does everything his father says but is never given anything special by his father in way of that recognition that he's not his brother.

Right now, it could be that Josh is both sons. He's the one who squandered his birthright, and will get, publicly, a "fatted calf" but there really isn't anything else to go home to. And he may also be the son who has spent all of his life since NOT being that son, only to have his father not recognize that he was ever capable of being anyone but that messed up boy.

Because that story only works if you have a truly loving and compassionate father waiting for you. In some interpretations, it's God himself. For Josh, it's Jim Bob. Admit it - wouldn't all of us rather deal with God? Even the scary, wrathful Ben Seewald God than Jim Bob?

I know I would.

[3 is enough]

So Sunday is Father's Day- any bets as to whether Anna posts on Instagram about the "wonderful father of her children"?

[Loves2Dance]

So Sunday is Father's Day- any bets as to whether Anna posts on Instagram about the "wonderful father of her children"?

If she's smart, she'll continue to remain silent. 

[BitterApple]

So Sunday is Father's Day- any bets as to whether Anna posts on Instagram about the "wonderful father of her children"?

Oh Lord, that would be one colossal can of worms to open. Hopefully she has enough of a brain to keep her trap shut.

[JenCarroll]

Or maybe the 'incidents' were not really a big deal in their eyes?! Afterall, it was only a few times..... to girls, who probably tempted Josh anyway.... & it happens in families within the Gothard circles ALL the time (pls know I'm being sarcastic).

 

To this day Mama June still doesn't think what she did was so horrible (bringing the man who raped her own daughter back into her home & life) & I'm betting the Duggars really don't get just how gross/disturbing Josh's actions & their responses were.

I agree actually, I really don't think they understand what the problem is.

[NikSac]

I agree actually, I really don't think they understand what the problem is.

 

I don't think so either. I know we haven't seen much public reaction, but from what we have seen through the JB/M/J&J interviews and the very little info released I get the feeling they are really confused why anyone even cares.  I see it as: "So what?  He touched his sisters, everyone does it and most do worse things to them anyway. What's the big deal?"

Edited June 20, 2015 by NikSac

[Anne Elk]

You'd think that getting kicked off the Oprah show back in 2006 would be enough to clue them in that this was serious. After that happened, they took steps to try and hide it (not bringing Josh in for an interview with the police during the investigation, and then suing the investigators). Those aren't the actions of people who think it was no big deal. That's people trying to engineer a coverup and make sure their hands are clean. 

 

I think it was plain old arrogance. They thought their TV fame and vocal Christianity made them untouchable. And they may yet be proved right. TLC hasn't officially canceled the show and their fans in the Christian community are still defending them. I think if he lays low until things calm down, even Josh will be able to come back from this eventually. Probably a secular career is out of the question, but he could make a good living as a reformed sinner telling his story.

[Sew Sumi]

I'll just throw out there that being an adolescent and having to stand up in front of your church and confess your sexual history and thoughts is not something you can really make a call about how "easily" someone got off unless you've done it. I will also mention that the more "golden" you are when you have to do this, the more painful and humiliating it is likely to be.

I'm not sure that in terms of outright humiliation that what Josh is experiencing is as painful as that time was he doesn't know us, or any of the people posting in social media. Huckabee and his family stood behind him. Assuming he has not done anything, this might be hard because he's let people down in a sort of big picture way, but in the way it was when it happened? This might be easier.

Don't forget that this church only consisted of a handful of families. Most of its congregants were little children. I see this as more a ritualistic thing than any real cleansing or humiliation. The first special was taped not long after and Josh looks every bit the Golden Child. What I gather is that neither JB/M nor Josh learned the real lessons from this. It can't be emphasized enough that had the parents gotten Josh real help at the time, no one would have ever learned any of this. 

 

Irony. Apparently not taught at the dining room table.

[NikSac]

You'd think that getting kicked off the Oprah show back in 2006 would be enough to clue them in that this was serious. After that happened, they took steps to try and hide it (not bringing Josh in for an interview with the police during the investigation, and then suing the investigators). Those aren't the actions of people who think it was no big deal. That's people trying to engineer a coverup and make sure their hands are clean.

 

True... they had to know by then that others would think it was a big deal, and somewhere along the line they realized they needed to hide it. I guess what I was getting at is I don't think that they, personally, ever thought what he did was a big deal. They did what they had to do to hide it, but I'd imagine they were upset that other people thought it was such a problem.

Edited June 20, 2015 by NikSac

[Anne Elk]

True... they had to know by then that others would think it was a big deal, and somewhere along the line they realized they needed to hide it. I guess what I was getting at is I don't think that they, personally, ever thought what he did was a big deal. They did what they had to do to hide it, but I'd imagine they were upset that other people thought it was such a problem.

 

I can see that. Once Josh had confessed and accepted Jesus and they instituted the no-hide-and-seek rules, problem solved! Then it just became more evidence of what great parents they were, because they had solved the problem! (gag)

 

But I think on some level they know this is heinous. They just think they're so special that somehow it shouldn't really apply to them, even though they admitted it happened. 

Edited June 20, 2015 by Anne Elk

[Loves2Dance]

I can see that. Once Josh had confessed and accepted Jesus and they instituted the no-hide-and-seek rules, problem solved! Then it just became more evidence of what great parents they were, because they had solved the problem! (gag)

 

But I think on some level they know this is heinous. They just think they're so special that somehow it shouldn't really apply to them, even though they admitted it happened. 

I think this is a case where they're more horrified by how the actions affect their reputation, than the actions themselves. Jim Bob was very quick to defend, "We've talk to others who have had it worse," but the idea that their image was going to be tarnished was when the true claws came out. 

[Micks Picks]

They must live in a little hotbed of molestation.  If almost everybody you know and have talked to have had this problem, and even worse, there is something really dangerous and depraved about your life and that of your friends.

[GEML]

Don't forget that this church only consisted of a handful of families. Most of its congregants were little children. I see this as more a ritualistic thing than any real cleansing or humiliation. The first special was taped not long after and Josh looks every bit the Golden Child. What I gather is that neither JB/M nor Josh learned the real lessons from this. It can't be emphasized enough that had the parents gotten Josh real help at the time, no one would have ever learned any of this.

Irony. Apparently not taught at the dining room table.

Yes, I am more than familiar with the type of Church Josh was attending. And I also know that the oldest Duggar children were taught, perhaps with discipline we'd rather not know about, how to behave in public.

I still don't know that anyone who hasn't had to get up and public list their sexual shame as an adolescent can truly say it was "easy" or he "got off lightly."

[dorcastrilling]

The thing is, local residents are not notified. One can find it out, but its not like there is any announcement to a neighborhood.

In my area they are notified. Via the PD facebook page, the community newsletter, local news reports.

[Julia]

The thing is, though, I think this was handled in a way that probably damaged Josh more than he was already damaged. It still makes my hackles go up when I hear about the psychological impact on kids from 'good families' of, essentially, being made to feel bad while they walk away from serious crimes.

Don't get me wrong, I maintain that it sucks to be Josh, but his being slapped on the wrist for however much of this he actually confessed to - we've already seen that the parents downright lie about that when it suits them - and then publicly embraced by his victims instead of going into the system his daddy helped set up for other peoples' kids is decidedly not, JMO, why it sucks to be Josh.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Julia

[GeeGolly]

In my area, the results of what happened would have been similar. DCF would have been notified, Josh would have been removed from the home, and the family would have received counseling. The goal would be to see if reunification would be appropriate. The biggest difference would have been that Josh would have been in the custody of the state and the case would have gone before a judge before he would be returned to the home. He, in all likelyhood would have returned home and would not have been criminally charged.

[Julia]

In my area, the results of what happened would have been similar. DCF would have been notified, Josh would have been removed from the home, and the family would have received counseling. The goal would be to see if reunification would be appropriate. The biggest difference would have been that Josh would have been in the custody of the state and the case would have gone before a judge before he would be returned to the home. He, in all likelyhood would have returned home and would not have been criminally charged.

I hear what you're saying, but to me the only way that's similar is the part where Josh doesn'tgo to prison. Being removed from the home, being placed in a situation where he was not a golden child and not being enabled, and having to take responsibility for his crimes before he could go back to his life sounds pretty drastically different to me.

And that's if he stayed out of the adult system. The law Jim Bob helped pass in their state had them handing out life sentences to fourteen year olds.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Julia

[kassygreene]

If I'm remembering correctly from the original FOIA document, one of the reasons JB kept Josh away from the police was that he couldn't find a lawyer who would agree to represent Josh.  Wasn't it at least two who declined to take it on?  If IIRC, then there is absolutely no rational way to maintain they were unaware of the wider world's assessment of the events, because a competent attorney interested in keeping his ability to practice would have given practical advice.  Duggars don't do practical.

[NEGirl]

In my state if the first incident was reported, Josh would have been removed from the home. CPS would do an investigation of the entire family. The family could be ordered to attend counseling The case would be referred to juvenile court to see if charges should be filed against the juvenile. The juvenile could be placed on probation and ordered to attend counseling. If the second incident was reported, and the juvenile was on probation, they could be charged with a violation of probation and possibly be given jail time. Depending on the charges, they could become a Megan's Law case and, depending on  the seriousness of the charges, the community would be notified. Such offenses are taken seriously by the court. Boob and J'Chelle knew what they were doing when they never reported the incidents to police.

*In my state, Public Defenders are provided to both juveniles and adults if they cannot afford an attorney.

Edited June 20, 2015 by NEGirl

[GeeGolly]

If they reported the first incident of 'touching a similar aged child', Josh most likely would not have been removed from the home. DCF would have been monitoring the family while all received counseling. Criminal charges, if any, would most likely have occurred due to Josh inappropriately touching the 5 year old.

I believe there are many, many ways this matter could have been handled better. However there are many, many instances that have been handled much more poorly.

The disclosure of the Duggar molestations, which I don't agree with, has brought about a lot of widespread discussion of the topic, which I believe is a good thing.

[lulu69]

If I'm remembering correctly from the original FOIA document, one of the reasons JB kept Josh away from the police was that he couldn't find a lawyer who would agree to represent Josh.  Wasn't it at least two who declined to take it on?  If IIRC, then there is absolutely no rational way to maintain they were unaware of the wider world's assessment of the events, because a competent attorney interested in keeping his ability to practice would have given practical advice.  Duggars don't do practical.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if JB couldn't find a decent attorney because he was cheap & didn't want to pay the going rate. Or maybe he tried to tell the attorney what to do bc, afterall, JB knows everything!

 

There are attorneys out there who will defend cannabilistic murders, but not one to defend a 14-16 boy molester. Hmmm.

Edited June 20, 2015 by lulu69